|
Despite being "boring" or "bad" design in a vacuum, the tempest has actually improved all the protoss matchups by shifting the composition endgame and timetable. I also feel it serves a much need role in defining protoss as the "unmatchable technology" race on the flavor/lore side of things. Before, protoss was on a timer in both matchups and could only ever fight scrappy / have diceroll big engagements. The tempest restores that perception I believe protoss always should have had that they can make a super army that dictates the game, if they want to. That is not to say that the other races don't have answers, but they should be the ones to use guerilla tactics / backstab plays, not protoss. (This is, of course, my opinion on race identity, and if you're wondering yes I do play protoss and have always favored them since BW.  )
I would much prefer the tempest had some kind of depth to its design in addition to "longest range in the game", even though that is a reasonable and probably sufficient identity/roll for a unit. For example, tempest shots impose a temporary stun or other sort of debuff that stacks with multiple hits, but which is basically negligible with 1 or 2 tempests. This would give them a certain amount of usefulness against targets that aren't flying + massive, and would require a bit of micro to make use of. This is just as an example of adding depth, I'm sure there are better ideas.
|
On October 03 2013 05:24 EatThePath wrote:Despite being "boring" or "bad" design in a vacuum, the tempest has actually improved all the protoss matchups by shifting the composition endgame and timetable. I also feel it serves a much need role in defining protoss as the "unmatchable technology" race on the flavor/lore side of things. Before, protoss was on a timer in both matchups and could only ever fight scrappy / have diceroll big engagements. The tempest restores that perception I believe protoss always should have had that they can make a super army that dictates the game, if they want to. That is not to say that the other races don't have answers, but they should be the ones to use guerilla tactics / backstab plays, not protoss. (This is, of course, my opinion on race identity, and if you're wondering yes I do play protoss and have always favored them since BW. )
i would argue the tempest makes the pvp matchup worse. its the MSC that really helps to eliminate the 'diceroll' of rush strats and allins, and helps to bring more games into the midgame.
but then when you get to the midgame, what do you do? colossus are so hard countered by tempests its not even funny; you only need ~5 tempests to oneshot a colossus, and just consider how quickly you can build them. so then you build tempests, to counter tempests. in the end the unit itself negates its own existence.
i mean, you watch a pvp. and the moment you see a player going tempests, the other player doesnt know what to do anymore. they all in attack into gg once their colossus get vaporized. or dance around for an hour hoping to lure the tempests into wide open terrain. its so silly at times.
|
On October 02 2013 19:27 decemberscalm wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 09:57 Antylamon wrote:
Blizz did change the Carrier. They added the leash zone micro from BW. The leash micro is AWFUL in its current implementation. You have to retarget another unti the second you kill a unit. If interceptors start heading back it is already too late. In BW if you retarget and the corsairs are just about to hop into the hangar they'll still retarget.
and yes, this is true. its very difficult to work at moving and attack-move commands to effectively use leash.
|
On October 03 2013 05:38 a176 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 05:24 EatThePath wrote:Despite being "boring" or "bad" design in a vacuum, the tempest has actually improved all the protoss matchups by shifting the composition endgame and timetable. I also feel it serves a much need role in defining protoss as the "unmatchable technology" race on the flavor/lore side of things. Before, protoss was on a timer in both matchups and could only ever fight scrappy / have diceroll big engagements. The tempest restores that perception I believe protoss always should have had that they can make a super army that dictates the game, if they want to. That is not to say that the other races don't have answers, but they should be the ones to use guerilla tactics / backstab plays, not protoss. (This is, of course, my opinion on race identity, and if you're wondering yes I do play protoss and have always favored them since BW. ) i would argue the tempest makes the pvp matchup worse. its the MSC that really helps to eliminate the 'diceroll' of rush strats and allins, and helps to bring more games into the midgame. but then when you get to the midgame, what do you do? colossus are so hard countered by tempests its not even funny; you only need ~5 tempests to oneshot a colossus, and just consider how quickly you can build them. so then you build tempests, to counter tempests. in the end the unit itself negates its own existence. i mean, you watch a pvp. and the moment you see a player going tempests, the other player doesnt know what to do anymore. they all in attack into gg once their colossus get vaporized. or dance around for an hour hoping to lure the tempests into wide open terrain. its so silly at times.
I think you are unfairly judging from bad games. There are more composition inflection points during all stages of pvp, including lategame, and I'm not referring to the stability the msc affords in the early game (which is still somewhat dicerolley but just deferred after tech leads sort themselves out). There are a lot of games that stick to robo + twilight tech even after one or both players opened stargate. So tempest aren't the metagame-ruining hardcounter you make them out to be, at least not in pvp.
On October 03 2013 05:46 a176 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 19:27 decemberscalm wrote:On October 02 2013 09:57 Antylamon wrote:
Blizz did change the Carrier. They added the leash zone micro from BW. The leash micro is AWFUL in its current implementation. You have to retarget another unti the second you kill a unit. If interceptors start heading back it is already too late. In BW if you retarget and the corsairs are just about to hop into the hangar they'll still retarget. and yes, this is true. its very difficult to work at moving and attack-move commands to effectively use leash.
Agreed, I've tried to practice a bit and even when I can get it to behave somewhat the way I intend, it feels awful and clunky and hardly better than a-move, compared to BW which felt like you were using a powertool.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
