EPTStuff like this makes me believe we will soon have an RTS that is FUN! Kickstarter and all that...
Broodwar and Starcraft 2 - Pathing - Page 6
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niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
Stuff like this makes me believe we will soon have an RTS that is FUN! Kickstarter and all that... | ||
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DinoToss
Poland507 Posts
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On September 20 2013 06:47 DinoToss wrote: Am I the only one smirking like hell? This is one of the biggest pro BW article in disguise i've ever seen. I even got fooled till the middle. Damn! Not really pro BW article. If you read a lot of Thieving Magpie's regular posts in other threads, he is pretty much very neutral. He even argue back to people who say BW > SC2 in other BW vs SC2 arguments because he views that these two games emphasize on different area that it should not be compare what is better, because it's more about preference (watching execution or watching preparation for the execution, for example). | ||
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Azera
3800 Posts
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
I'm one of those people that hate the posturing, the rushing speed and the overly strategical feel of SC2. I want a fight to not be decided beforehand by who has the better composition or the better arc, I want there to be back and forth fighting of the army, poking, prodding, luring units out of position and killing them, more interaction between armies, more in battle micro that rewards good players. At the same time I'm not advocating the return of old technology. BW's pathfinding was a happy accident in that it produced a true miracle of a game, that doesn't mean we should doing everything in our power to exactly reproduce it, down to the geometry and glitches. Instead what I had hoped for, and probably what a lot of people I guess had hoped for and wish for now, is that, the devs invent new ways for the to bring back the same unit interactions in BW, to add back micro potential and opportunities and to create more ways for players with good battle micro to distinguish themselves, sometimes, even to the extremes you described, like having two different kinds of vulture players. At this point I've made my peace with how SC2 is, I really love the game, but I love BW a bit more. I think the reason why SC2 came about the way it did is that the devs themselves really didn't understand how the units interact in relations to each other and to the terrain in the framework of different pathfinding methods and thus, didn't realize that, maybe to add the same depth of unit control and fighting you see in BW, they maybe had to add more things to the units. Its probably an easy thing to see in retrospect, it doesn't make SC2 bad or BW better, it just makes them different I guess. I hope the dev team reads this and makes a big effort to understand this and, come SC3 or WC4, they take strides in adding deeper unit interaction and, slowing down the pace of the game sufficiently enough for those interactions to take place. The kinds of unit interaction, the one reminiscent to BW, that we seek in SC2, is not possible in the framework of SC2 and, to add it to SC2, would require an entire shift in philosophy and paradigm, which, while possible, is probably to hard to execute and expensive now in SC2. In short it is probably not feesable to take a game with a certain philosophy and try to change it, it would be far, far easier to just easier to wipe the slate clean and start from scratch. TLDR Its not that the dev team and Blizzard doesn't or didn't want to make the best game possible, its that they didn't really understand the interaction of units and terrain and the intricacy of controling them withing the framework of the different pathfinding engines. It doesn't make BW or SC2 better/worst then the other it makes them different now, though I guess subjectively each might appeal to a different player. Hopefully the dev team learned their lesson and can apply it in a future RTS game and take the best of SC2 and BW. Until then learn to accept each game for what it is and to see the beauty of each in its own way. | ||
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M.theory
United States23 Posts
 Thanks a bunch! | ||
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
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DinoToss
Poland507 Posts
On September 20 2013 07:16 Veldril wrote: Not really pro BW article. If you read a lot of Thieving Magpie's regular posts in other threads, he is pretty much very neutral. He even argue back to people who say BW > SC2 in other BW vs SC2 arguments because he views that these two games emphasize on different area that it should not be compare what is better, because it's more about preference (watching execution or watching preparation for the execution, for example). The blog as a whole is definitely exceptional(presenting the idea of neutrality), but he should showcase more scrutiny when it comes to presenting few ideas. Because for me listing all the things that BW fans "don't like" about SC2 with ending : "But at least you wouldn't end up like this BW-fella[pic]", which after inspection *has no relation* to the topic. Makes it an "eat your own tail argument", and in my book looks witty as a BW fan. lol D9 :p | ||
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TrippSC2
United States209 Posts
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
You make the logical jump that because SC2 is more about unit content and positioning, it is somehow more "strategic" than Brood War, which I think has no basis in reality. | ||
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kochanfe
Micronesia1338 Posts
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BallisticGE0RGE
United States1 Post
But these skills are there, magic boxing with mutas, blinking hurt stalkers back during battle, picking up and dropping a hellion to avoid hits, stutter stepping, splitting units. Using seeker missiles on your own medivac to boost into an enemy. Dropping hellbats on an army mid-battle to inflict maximum splash damage. These things are skills that any amature cannot just master...They are growing, and more of them are being discovered, and practiced. Not to say this will ever change SC2's focus on strategy over skill. Or even match it to Brood War's level of required skilled. But it will make the game more fun to watch, and has already started to. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11076 Posts
On September 20 2013 08:43 iamho wrote: Sorry, this article is trying too hard to be "balanced" toward both games. The fact that Brood War has more of what you call "executional difficulty" doesn't mean Starcraft II is more about strategy. From my experience I'd argue that SC2 is both easier strategically and executionally, though with a greater element of LUCK. You make the logical jump that because SC2 is more about unit content and positioning, it is somehow more "strategic" than Brood War, which I think has no basis in reality. Sometimes you need to be generous in order to get people to listen to an arguement. if this had been posted on reddit without the disclaimers we would just hear whines about BW elitism. (Then in the next thread bitching about how newb friendly LoL is) | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
Explained very well why I can't enjoy SC2 games. Personally, I believe it is VERY wrong for a newb like me to be able to have the same performance with a group of units as a professional player (like your hellion example). I think BW allows better for a professional player to showcase the gigantic skill gap (both mechanically and strategically) between him and the top amateur player. And even though in SC2 this gap most certainly exists and the difference is very big, it feels like it is oh so much narrower. | ||
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suddendeathTV
Sweden388 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
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scares
Germany239 Posts
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NoobCrunch
79 Posts
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