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I just don't think that I have the attitude as a person to be able to see past the mistakes of 4 other people and not get extremely frustrated when I take team games seriously. Lately I have been focusing more on Dota 2 and trying some LoL ranked and having a 40-70 minute commitment ruined by something completely out of my control is just the most frustrating thing I can imagine.
I make mistakes, everyone does, I think the problem comes from the fact that while I can control my mistakes and work on them I can never expect 4 other people to not make mistakes but I feel in trying to improve I am constantly hindered by trying to improve my mistakes AND hope I get smart team mates.
Is there a way to overcome this? Is it maybe just a personality type thing? I play games to be the best, I will obviously never reach this goal but I play competitive games to continue improving and to try and reach the top, again, no delusions that this is an intangible goal but it leaves me constant goals to achieve, but I'm not getting any younger (28) and I start university next year (again) games like Sc2 require to much throughput to be good at for the time I have, this leaves games like Dota, LoL, CS:GO or as I have aptly named them the team games.
Has anyone had the same experience as me with team games in general? Did you ever overcome it or find a way to not let it bother you as much?
 
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I never had fun playing pub games in LoL before. Once you join a stable team of level headed and equally skilled players, then the game becomes really good.
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I'd like to see the next level of sports games where folks take every position on a team sport - in baseball, soccer, football (soccer would probably be the only one that would work) and play a full season on twitch!
I guess a game would have to support that type of first person control.
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When someone fucks up big time or you see them about to go full retard don't type anything. Think about how you can minimize damage and keep your team in the game.
Some games just can't be carried because someone really wants to have their temper tantrum, watevs. Also if someone goes full retard and you die with them it's not because "they baited you", it's because you didn't recognize that the retard was fucked and it was best to let them die and do your best to hang on or get advantages elsewhere.
If you start flame wars in your games I ask you to remove the enter key from your keyboard for a week of gaming and see where your ratings go.
PS: Don't hope for smart teammates, it's something you can't control if you're solo queuing , look for the retard on the other team and abuse their mistakes as much as you can. Someone never wards and always over extended? Walk over and collect free money. On the flip side if your teammate never wards, buy one for them on your next back and try and minimize their damage to your team.
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play lee sin, then it's ok even when you lose
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The idea is supposed to be, don't view random team games as a group of people versus another group of people, but as you versus two groups of people, one that you have to help, and one you have to abuse. If someone on your team sucks, continue like you would if that person was just a bot, give some help, expect nothing in return. If someone on the other team sucks, abuse the hell out of them. Now the game has reached some ridiculous level of depth and multi-tasking because you're not only responsible for yourself and the other team, but for your entire team, and somewhere along the way you begin to learn that it's not about whether you win or you lose, it's about whether you played to the best of your abilities and created your advantages. In a way it's a lot more sincere (and difficult) than playing single player games, and almost a completely different attitude. As always, it's not whether you win or lose, it's if you did everything in your power that you could, to help your team win (which is never true, ever).
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you say you play to get better.
So why dont you focus on that instead of focusing on mistakes by your team.
When they time has come that the enemy team is so far ahead that you cant do anything anymore, then the game will be over within 5 minutes anyways.
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I dunno about how LoL works, but if its anything like DotA it is most certainly a lot more fun with people who are committed to being part of a team. Even if you don't have a 5 person stack that you can regularly play with, a group of people who are committed to somewhat competitive play (a DotA analogy would be Team Liquid Inhouses) makes the game a lot more fun. Despite all that, these games are usually better if you don't take them seriously especially if you are just playing pubs. Its a lot of fun that way.
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Everybody knows a few games are just bad because of various stuff. The only way to minimize that is to join a clan and play those kind of games. If you join one at the right level you are the person dragging your team down and have to learn quickly.
As for the time issue with a clan, be up front with when/how much you can play and find something that suits that. Most clans are semi inactive.
I got over team mates ruining games around 1.5k games into DotA. So that was a few years ago.
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Play pub SnD CoD. If you are half decent you can always carry your team.
E:And when you die (which in inevitable) you have plenty of time to cool off before the next round.
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I always consider that when I loose it's my fault. I was 15/0/10 and my team got exploded ? Well maybe I could have been 20/0/15 and kill the strong guys in the other team, or pick an other hero. Just think : would a progamer have lost this game ? Probably not (well if you play in the highest of very high it's maybe false, but at this point your teamates shouldn't be terrible either).
I had the same mentality in sc2, and had no problem with teamgames (even if you sometimes facepalm when an ally do a double nexus first into dying).
An other really important part about it is the chat. Most people are reasonable and accept to listen to advises if they are well sugarcoated. Just be manner and pedagogical from the start of the game ("may i go at xxx lane ?", "you should probably go xxx"), ask the stuff politely ("could someone buy some wards to put there ?"(with pointing stuff on the map) ) , and probably when you will give advises or try to lead sth you will be listen.
On the contrary if you're one of the retard that goes 'I GO MID", "xxx N00B just desinstall dota", "YOU BUY A IRON BRANCH JUST L2P", well you will probably have horrible team that will never ever listen you
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Well I think a big problem is with the lack of ladder in Dota 2 I feel like putting up with bad team mates is pointless, I don't gain anything from these games, they often last >50 minutes and it's just an exercise in frustration. I don't know maybe it's just the game type that's bothering me.
I don't know Dota has just been getting to me lately, 1500 hours of solo queue because I am bad at making friends and none of my RL ones play, solo queue is just an exercise in masochism.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
You just gotta suck it up I guess, I personally just laugh when teammates are retarded, I have two brothers that both get really angry at the game though, claiming they are stuck in 'elo hell' and that it's impossible for them to win. For both games you start having a lot more fun with a team or if you just stop caring about win/loss and focus on improving/having fun.
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On August 29 2013 17:17 Targe wrote:
You just gotta suck it up I guess, I personally just laugh when teammates are retarded, I have two brothers that both get really angry at the game though, claiming they are stuck in 'elo hell' and that it's impossible for them to win. For both games you start having a lot more fun with a team or if you just stop caring about win/loss and focus on improving/having fun.
I have no delusions that Elo hell is a lie, I realize that that because there are 4 random strangers on my team and 5 on the other that as long as I don't fuck up over time I will eventually rise up in rank, it's more spending the time doing it without wanting to murder someone.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On August 29 2013 17:22 Esoterikk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2013 17:17 Targe wrote:
You just gotta suck it up I guess, I personally just laugh when teammates are retarded, I have two brothers that both get really angry at the game though, claiming they are stuck in 'elo hell' and that it's impossible for them to win. For both games you start having a lot more fun with a team or if you just stop caring about win/loss and focus on improving/having fun. I have no delusions that Elo hell is a lie, I realize that that because there are 4 random strangers on my team and 5 on the other that as long as I don't fuck up over time I will eventually rise up in rank, it's more spending the time doing it without wanting to murder someone.
Yeah just stop caring about games and focus on having fun, if you're as good as you think you are you will slowly rise in rank and you'll be having more fun. (consider individual games as noise on an ever increasing graph)
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On August 29 2013 08:47 Esoterikk wrote:
Has anyone had the same experience as me with team games in general? Did you ever overcome it or find a way to not let it bother you as much?
Stopped playing DotA 2 after I lost 12 games in a row thanks to my teammates. Played -ar only and obviously can't carry with random heroes. Not like this would have been possible anyway since they normally suicide already early on.
I definitely think my time is too precious to waste it like that. Even the players in random WC3 DotA pubs were way better than them.
I don't mind team shooters too much because you can still kill the enemy team on your own but Mobas and something like World of Tanks are a different story.
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You should look towards the long term rather than from game to game. If your performance is good, so will your rank eventually. Losing a few games because of teammates will happen, but if you perform well you shouldn't be upset. 1 or 2 games or even 5 mean nothing. No matter how your team does, even if you get completely stomped and there's nothing you could have done, it doesn't change your own skill. Don't invest so much in the single game you're playing with people who you probably will never play with again.
If you did your best then you should be happy with it. I would much rather lose a game where I did well than win a game where I did mediocre.
I think when you watch streams of people smurfing you can see just how apparent this is and I find it quite motivating sometimes. I remember watching a while back seeing doublelift carry a game in mid platinum when it was a 4v5.
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On August 29 2013 17:44 Itsmedudeman wrote:
You should look towards the long term rather than from game to game. If your performance is good, so will your rank eventually. Losing a few games because of teammates will happen, but if you perform well you shouldn't be upset. 1 or 2 games or even 5 mean nothing. No matter how your team does, even if you get completely stomped and there's nothing you could have done, it doesn't change your own skill. Don't invest so much in the single game you're playing with people who you probably will never play with again.
If you did your best then you should be happy with it. I would much rather lose a game where I did well than win a game where I did mediocre.
I think when you watch streams of people smurfing you can see just how apparent this is and I find it quite motivating sometimes. I remember watching a while back seeing doublelift carry a game in mid platinum when it was a 4v5.
This is actually a really good way to think about it and I never really bothered to look at it this way thank you for that. As for carrying games I doubt I will do that as I play support in both games .
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Supports may not carry the game but they do carry the ADC.
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On August 29 2013 18:12 Esoterikk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2013 17:44 Itsmedudeman wrote:
You should look towards the long term rather than from game to game. If your performance is good, so will your rank eventually. Losing a few games because of teammates will happen, but if you perform well you shouldn't be upset. 1 or 2 games or even 5 mean nothing. No matter how your team does, even if you get completely stomped and there's nothing you could have done, it doesn't change your own skill. Don't invest so much in the single game you're playing with people who you probably will never play with again.
If you did your best then you should be happy with it. I would much rather lose a game where I did well than win a game where I did mediocre.
I think when you watch streams of people smurfing you can see just how apparent this is and I find it quite motivating sometimes. I remember watching a while back seeing doublelift carry a game in mid platinum when it was a 4v5. This is actually a really good way to think about it and I never really bothered to look at it this way thank you for that. As for carrying games I doubt I will do that as I play support in both games .
Hmm I think it is really advised to not play support too much in dota when you're too low on elo, because if your carry just don't know how to farm, it's very frustrating. And to get out of a elo where you think your ally are really worse than you, nothing better than picking good carry (my personal favorite is the phantom lancer).
When I solo queue, sometimes now I feel I'm the worst player in the game, and that taking a support is maybe the way for me to not screw my team too much. And I feel I'm improving (and as I don't watch any pro matches, I learn a lot by seeing better player than me play  ) when doing this kind of games.
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I can't even play team games ever. It's not even fun for me because too much is reliant on other players and not enough on me. Even in a 2v2 I'm only 1/4 of the equation, and it only gets less and less as you add more players, its discouraging to know that you can play as best as you possibly ever can and still lose because a teammate made a mistake or the opponents just double teamed you at a precise moment.
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For team games always remember:
It's not necessarily your fault that you lost; but it's always your fault that you didn't win.
Focus internally on your play, including your influence over others, and don't blame the losses on other people as it's always your play that prevents you from winning. In these games your early game attitude and moves can have a big influence on getting your team to perform and the better you play the better space your allies have to play well. Remember that everyone you are playing with belongs at the rating you are playing. The problem is that it's easy for players to have gaps in their abilities that are highly exploitable. They may not play well from behind, they may need some space to settle in and get used to their hero and its capabilities, or they may only be strong in teamfights and have poor map awareness. The point is they have some skill that's put them at the rating you play at, your job is to just create the situation to bring out that skill. Failing that you just need to execute well enough to overcome your allies' weaknesses and take any games you can't salvage in stride because it's all about keeping that >50% win rate, you don't need a 100% winrate.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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On August 30 2013 00:43 Kipsate wrote:
Play with friends.
Maybe with this attitude, he doesn't have any? ) No, sorry, that was just mean, I know.
But it's really the true answer. I can not even imagine playing 4v4s with random people, but playing with friends is generally tolerable. Sometimes hilarious, sometimes frustrating ... I basically rage hard every time on Skype and talk about not playing with them ever, but they always convince me and good times are had. One of the guys I play with seems to be mentally incapable to do anything consistently, he would just make a second gateway before core to "wall in faster" or go hatch first at any random number of drones - yet we get along actually better than with the other one who plays well, but has always these insightfull comments about how someone fucked up in the middle of battle (instead of fixing the fuckup himself under shared control). In the end, it's all about the game being more fun when shared with other people.
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I enjoy Dota 2 (last year mostly) as a distraction from Starcraft and to play something that doesn't break my wrists.
I see joining a game as a commitment towards other people to try my best (regardless of skill) and don't disconnect at the bare minimum.
It's frustrating when you waste maybe an hour because of dicks!
Sure i can see myself loving it playing with friends or gaming buddies due to the nature of the game and the constant communication/banter you can have but realistically i struggle to even convince one of my friend to play something i do, imagine 4...and even so would be a rare thing to get 5 casuals organize and play together.
So because all this i take it for what it is and play when i feel like something casual while having a beer.
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On August 30 2013 00:43 Kipsate wrote:
Play with friends.
Unfortunately all my friends refuse to play competitive games in general and I am a special kind of awful at making online friends. I give off an unintended rude tone online that I can't shake.
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This has already been touched on (lightly), but I find that when I personally know the teammates who I'm playing with, I don't mind their mistakes quite as much. It just feels like growing as a team.
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fix attitude.
I had this chat with a tler a while ago. where he treated stupidity as part of the game he had to overcome
you can never not do something
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On August 29 2013 21:13 kubiks wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2013 18:12 Esoterikk wrote:On August 29 2013 17:44 Itsmedudeman wrote:
You should look towards the long term rather than from game to game. If your performance is good, so will your rank eventually. Losing a few games because of teammates will happen, but if you perform well you shouldn't be upset. 1 or 2 games or even 5 mean nothing. No matter how your team does, even if you get completely stomped and there's nothing you could have done, it doesn't change your own skill. Don't invest so much in the single game you're playing with people who you probably will never play with again.
If you did your best then you should be happy with it. I would much rather lose a game where I did well than win a game where I did mediocre.
I think when you watch streams of people smurfing you can see just how apparent this is and I find it quite motivating sometimes. I remember watching a while back seeing doublelift carry a game in mid platinum when it was a 4v5. This is actually a really good way to think about it and I never really bothered to look at it this way thank you for that. As for carrying games I doubt I will do that as I play support in both games . Hmm I think it is really advised to not play support too much in dota when you're too low on elo, because if your carry just don't know how to farm, it's very frustrating. And to get out of a elo where you think your ally are really worse than you, nothing better than picking good carry (my personal favorite is the phantom lancer). When I solo queue, sometimes now I feel I'm the worst player in the game, and that taking a support is maybe the way for me to not screw my team too much. And I feel I'm improving (and as I don't watch any pro matches, I learn a lot by seeing better player than me play ) when doing this kind of games.
Picking hard carries means that you're dependant from your team.
If the ally sucks at laning, you're not going to have a good game as PL.
If your allies suck at defending early pushes, same thing.
If your allies suck at securing your farm from ganks, same thing.
Basically you're asking of them to protect you for 30 minutes and not to lose what is essentially a 4v5 game.
Solo heroes with big early impact on the game even without teammates to help (ganking mids or offlaners, split pushers : storm, qop, puck, TA, Bat, Spirit Breaker, Timbersaw, Bounty, Slark, Nature's, Lycan, Tinker...) are the most reliable way to carry the game. That and more importantly, they're FUN :D
On topic, i just see it that way : if i lose even if i was 15-0, then i would probably have won with fifteen more kills. It's just up to me to play so well that even the worse players can't make me lose the game.
But that probably works because i don't like team-dependant heroes 
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EPT
