EPTSo what is the real unbiased truth?
Doomsayers are getting to me or is Sc2 dying.
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Defury
Germany206 Posts
So what is the real unbiased truth? | ||
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Fission
Canada1184 Posts
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Bunn
Estonia934 Posts
Another reason why it may feel like declining is due to the scene 'fixing' itself. What I mean by that is that there used to be lots smaller tournies, which competed with each other. But now some have remained, while others have not. It was inevitable. Dota2 is going through a similar phase right now. There are lots of tournies, but it's for certain that not all of them will remain. The people saying that LoL & Dota 2 are taking over aren't wrong. Think of it like this: LoL & Dota 2 are like football and basketball, while SC2 is chess or snooker. There's no denying that the former two are more popular. The latter 2 are definitely less popular, but they aren't anywhere near to dying. They're just smaller, filling a niche. I personally have stopped playing SC2 as I don't feel like buying expansions to keep up-to-date, when there are so many great free alternatives. I now play Dota2. Although its mostly solo-queue, I still find it more enjoyable than SC2 (WoL). | ||
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virpi
Germany3599 Posts
Furthermore, Sc2 is not free to play, even though Blizzard has introduced some ftp-similar elements. The viewer numbers for SC2 have stabilized on a good level. Huge finals get 100k viewers, mid tier tournaments are watched by at least 60k people. Sc2 will never be able to compete with the team games due to its nature, but it will live at least until the last expansion is out. Even though the market for old-school rts games is smaller than it used to be, there will always be people who love playing these games. It's not a game for everyone, but it's a great game nonetheless. | ||
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BisuEver
United States247 Posts
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Defury
Germany206 Posts
On July 28 2013 16:44 BisuEver wrote: If we don't do something soon we're all dead. D: In all seriousness though I know its not a major thing like Sc2 will dissapear, people still compete at Tf2 but there's a fine line between a top esport and a game people still play. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On July 28 2013 16:44 BisuEver wrote: If we don't do something soon we're all dead. Even if we do something soon we're all dead sooner or later!  | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6274 Posts
On July 28 2013 16:32 virpi wrote: SC2 is the only real RTS game with a highly competitive scene. 1v1 is stressful and it takes a lot of time to improve. While other games like Dota or LoL are very competitive, too, the team aspect takes away some parts of the pressure, especially in the lower skill levels. It's much easier for people to blame a loss on team mates than to blame it on them themselves. Furthermore, Sc2 is not free to play, even though Blizzard has introduced some ftp-similar elements. The viewer numbers for SC2 have stabilized on a good level. Huge finals get 100k viewers, mid tier tournaments are watched by at least 60k people. Sc2 will never be able to compete with the team games due to its nature, but it will live at least until the last expansion is out. Even though the market for old-school rts games is smaller than it used to be, there will always be people who love playing these games. It's not a game for everyone, but it's a great game nonetheless. People have been saying sc2 is dying even before the viewer numbers reached 100k. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On July 28 2013 16:08 Defury wrote: So as a member of a couple Sc2 communities like TL and Reddit I have been bombarded for the last half a year with threads about how bad Sc2 is doing and how it's dying and LoL/Dota 2 are taking over. As someone who has recently discovered how much I love competitive gaming but hate team games Sc2 is really the only game I fully enjoy. So what is the real unbiased truth? SC2 is basically where it was in late 2010, early 2011 and 2012. Only late 2011 had a somewhat larger individual tournament viewership and total prize money (though I think the highest viewer number ever still came from MLG Winter 2013). That said, if you want to enjoy SC2, stay away from any discussions that aren't Strategy, Fanclubs or Live Review (maybe not even LR), as sad as that sounds. On a general level, Reddit, TL and especially the Battle.net boards have become absolute soul-destroying pits of negativity. Even the fun joke threads aren't immune to balance whine and pitchforks. | ||
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beg
991 Posts
of course i'm just guessing about warcraft4, but it's not too unlikely. | ||
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BisuEver
United States247 Posts
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
So the question then becomes how fast is sc2 dying? The answer is " slowly". We have premier tournaments frequently right now, that's not anywhere near dead. When we have only a couple of big tournaments a year we can talk about dead. | ||
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KhaliWear
Canada159 Posts
Further more Star Craft is more prestigious, it will always be less then dota and LoL in viewership. Compare Tennis (SC2) to Basketball (LoL) and Hockey (Dota) with fans and of course pay out. More players making a large average sum. In LoL and Dota Small amounts of players making Huge sums. SC2 | ||
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guN-viCe
United States687 Posts
People said SC1/BW was dying every year since it came out; and it was true, to an extent. New games come out, people grow up, etc. SC2 is very much alive and it will be for many more years. | ||
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Kvassten
Sweden159 Posts
As long as there is Koreans Starcraft will actually never die lol. | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
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Ettick
United States2434 Posts
I think that the game is just in an awkward transition period right now, especially considering the state of affairs in Korea, so a lot of people think it's dying when it really is just changing. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On September 09 2013 07:06 Kvassten wrote: As long as there is Koreans Starcraft will actually never die lol. It's funny because SC2 isn't that popular in korea and never was. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On September 09 2013 10:49 Dfgj wrote: It's funny because SC2 isn't that popular in korea and never was. That's because BW was still being played competitively in Korea -_-. And as of this year, Kespa, the government-funded esports association that runs some of the largest esports events in the world, is involved in SC2. It's funny because as long as the Koreans are involved with Starcraft, it will actually never die. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On September 09 2013 11:47 SC2John wrote: That's because BW was still being played competitively in Korea -_-. And as of this year, Kespa, the government-funded esports association that runs some of the largest esports events in the world, is involved in SC2. It's funny because as long as the Koreans are involved with Starcraft, it will actually never die. It's not what organisations are involved, it's what people actually play. | ||
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ETisME
12715 Posts
On September 09 2013 11:47 SC2John wrote: That's because BW was still being played competitively in Korea -_-. And as of this year, Kespa, the government-funded esports association that runs some of the largest esports events in the world, is involved in SC2. It's funny because as long as the Koreans are involved with Starcraft, it will actually never die. it is not that popular even when BW isn't played competitively in Korea anymore. Right now the SC2 scene might be doing better in EU than anywhere else. Also 'dying' is a term that is poorly defined, everything is dying. Question is what does it mean to die? No more esport scene or no one plays the game anymore? | ||
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bartus88
Netherlands491 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
It's not dead, but it's not growing and will never grow. | ||
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FrogsAreDogs
Canada181 Posts
But looking back to the days of BW and WOL beta, there were several things that did not happen, which, if they did, would have resulted in immensely more popularity for SC2 without any Blizzard contribution (at least imo): -Having foreigners compete at the same level or even above the level of Koreans. During WOL beta this was TRUE, and many people expected this to carry forward. With Idra, TLO, Jinro competing in GSL it seemed as if foreigners would finally have a solid stance in this Korean dominated esport. Of course, this did not happen, as Koreans eventually outclassed the majority of foreign players. Considering that the GSL was the most prestigious tournament with the biggest prize pool, if foreign teams had players that were solid GSL champion contenders, I think it would have greatly helped the esports scene. (Imagine if Idra wins a GSL, how much would that impact the community?) -Lack of competent/experienced team management and sponsorships. I think this was a letdown to many spectators and players alike. The fact that there were few legally binding contracts, and that startup teams were prone to over-reliance on electronic messaging services (AHEM Skype chat), simply showed a lack of professionalism. On top of that, there were sponsorship issues and controversies. Those things were not helpful to establishing a foreign competitive scene and unattractive to foreigners trying to go pro. I don't blame the numerous people for trying to do business in this environment with no business experience. It is understandable as the whole esports scene is extremely new. However, I do believe a lot of luck is needed to have someone who is both CAPABLE and PASSIONATE, and looking back at the waves of teams that have risen and fallen, I think SC2 simply was not lucky enough. -Casting. This might be the most controversial point, but I, personally, strongly believes that SC2 in general have lackluster English casting. TheMarine (famous Korean Sc2 caster) said in his recent interview that it is the caster's job to make the game exciting for the audience, to go beyond the obvious and prevent the game from going stale. This is something that I agree with completely, as casting is the bridge that connects the competitive with the casuals. To put it as frankly as I can, English casting is monotone, boring, and not even very insightful. I simply cannot get my friends to sit down and listen to a casted game. The bus-stop conversation of english casters simply make it a nightmare for me to introduce a game to a group of audience. I think the type of audience attracted to the game, and the community's perception of the gameplay, is directly connected to how the casters cast the game. Right now, English casting mainly attracts people who already have some understanding of the game, and what's more, I believe that a majority of balance discussion/whines/cries are also tied to casting. Basically, English casting is very good at explaining the obvious and as such, audiences do not really gain an insightful understanding of all the aspects of the gameplay. For example, many casters are really good at pointing out that a protoss deathball is steamrolling the opponents army, that the opponent do not have enough vikings/good counters etc. However, many fail to describe the many intricacies that the protoss players have made, which allowed the player to build up such a strong army at that point. Subsequent balance discussions should NOT be about whether protoss deathball is OP or not, but whether if it is easier for protoss to achieve the intricacies that lead to such a strong army, than for the opponent to prevent the protoss from doing so. Anyways, I can go on and on about English casting, but I'm tired so I'm not going to :p | ||
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xxhakoxx
Bangladesh2 Posts
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