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cabosetv
United States14 Posts
I believe the burden was placed correctly. On the player himself. As for Ben acting out, I think that shows some immaturity. Throwing a little tantrum and saying "I will just forfeit" is childish. I can understand he was mad but should not of responded that way. This may bring up the issue of creating a players union. I don't think NA is big enough to create such a union yet but it might be something to look into possibly down the line. | ||
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nextstep
Canada705 Posts
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sLideSC2
United States225 Posts
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On May 05 2013 15:36 GreyKnight wrote: I don't quite understand the point of the thread.....are we supposed to be seeing an outrage? What's with airing all this chat and stuff essentially blackmailing players and MLG. Did you ask Demuslim before you posted this? How on earth is that relevant? | ||
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alainysaur
United States131 Posts
As for demu threatening to quit, Genna pointed out that he came out with the "threat" without any EG staff knowing probably. Can they really just do that? they wont get reprimanded? | ||
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ChadMann
Australia128 Posts
On May 05 2013 15:42 cabosetv wrote: As for Ben acting out, I think that shows some immaturity. Throwing a little tantrum and saying "I will just forfeit" is childish. I can understand he was mad but should not of responded that way. I think that is pretty unfair, Demu was protesting the decision and the only power he has in the situation is over himself. So protest by withdrawal is perfectly understandable. The admins were basically punishing demu and moosegils for an admin error. The other guys are there to play their games and for the brackets not to be held up walk overs are part of keeping things moving. | ||
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RemarK
United States452 Posts
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Topzerg
64 Posts
On May 05 2013 15:42 cabosetv wrote: What the admins tried to pull I think isn't fair. But when an official tells you a incorrect time that is messed up, especially if they don't try to correct it. One way to resolve the issue is to have WCS NA be NA players only. Thus, don't have language barrier nor time issues. I believe the burden was placed correctly. On the player himself. As for Ben acting out, I think that shows some immaturity. Throwing a little tantrum and saying "I will just forfeit" is childish. I can understand he was mad but should not of responded that way. This may bring up the issue of creating a players union. I don't think NA is big enough to create such a union yet but it might be something to look into possibly down the line. Nothing childish about Ben's behavior, he had been waiting and playing for 4 hours and was 66% through his match with moosegills. I would have done the exact same thing in his spot. Get your shit together or I'm out. And in any case EG should have been the ones defending him in that case and that threat should have come from them, involving all their players... aka MLG sit the f down. | ||
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cabosetv
United States14 Posts
On May 05 2013 15:51 ChadMann wrote: I think that is pretty unfair, Demu was protesting the decision and the only power he has in the situation is over himself. So protest by withdrawal is perfectly understandable. The admins were basically punishing demu and moosegils for an admin error. The other guys are there to play their games and for the brackets not to be held up walk overs are part of keeping things moving. No it was completely unfair I agree. But one way to handle it would of been the same way Incontrol handles trolls. He entertains their argument and makes them look stupid. Ben alluded to the slippery slope by saying, if it was any other player you won't do the same, but he never completely went there. I think he should of expanded on that view and use their own logic against them. The problem is, Admins may not care if you quit. Sure they may get fired later, but now your out a spot potentially. The risk is pretty high. If Genna had the opposite view and thought what the admins were doing was fair it could of turned out differently. I just don't see any need for him to go there. Argue logically and if that doesn't work then call in the army. | ||
Waxangel
United States33369 Posts
But demuslim's hostage taking and moosegill's piggybacking is still fucking hilarious | ||
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RemarK
United States452 Posts
On May 05 2013 16:00 Waxangel wrote: I can see why MLG wanted to make this decision, I don't think there's a clear cut right or wrong in this case in terms of how they wanted to handle things. In any case, it was an interesting and brave move on your part to do what you did, considering that there's decades of professional athletics telling us that the precedent is support your players at all costs. Your team, your rules, your values. But demuslim's hostage taking and moosegill's piggybacking is still fucking hilarious God you're an uninformed douchebag: https://twitter.com/saintsnorlax Why are you tweeting insults to players? | ||
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Waxangel
United States33369 Posts
On May 05 2013 16:07 RemarK wrote: God you're a uninformed douchebag: https://twitter.com/saintsnorlax careful, you might get banned ^^ | ||
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Topzerg
64 Posts
Lol, thank god you can't get banned from twitter though, right? lol what a joke. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Demuslim is dragged into a MLG instigated debacle at a point in time where he is yet again 1 map away from qualification for a meaningful WCS league and he is told he may have to pretend that series never happened and wait even more for an opponent. What options does Demuslim have? You say leagues and players have to work together but where is the unity in this? League says "sorry we messed up and as a consolation to you we offer nothing but our apology.. on the bright side you can play more starcraft!" Demuslim offers back, what? His only power is to protest by withdrawal. If he says "I will file a complaint!" That will get him nothing. If he drops himself it creates a public stir that DOES get results. Demuslim is capable of beating miya, sasquatch and evidently moosegills.. so for him to take those measures I would say IS a bit rash from a purely pro-EG perspective but having been a player jerked around by leagues before I can tell you I would probably have done the same thing only I wouldn't have used posh british wit to convey mild disappointment. I would have gone full Brooklyn on everyone within ear shot. I've managed teams. I've argued on behalf of players and I've been messed with by leagues. So everything you've said/done I fully respect/understand. I just hope you too can see the other side where Demuslim is coming from. Love ya <3 | ||
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DeMusliM
United Kingdom401 Posts
Without me being able to paste entire logs (as they only show the most recent chat) - I'll try do my best to clarify. The tournament had started at 11:00 am PST. My tournament day actually started around 1pm as we were told to wait to be broadcasted, games went on, the show went on. After my games finished, times getting on for 3pm, I'm msged by moosegills who tells me we're playing, tells me he had a wo after waiting for 2 hours etc. We do our vetos, are told by admin to play - winner gets a spot into Code A. He wins the first game, the 2nd game is roughly 9 minutes into it (At the point in which things tend to happen in tvz) - and moosegills pauses, and is told to quit the series and go play against Miya. Confused, he asks what the problem is, and we hear that miya was misinformed of the time, thus they'd like to rectify the bracket by unwinding their mistake. [FXO] Moosegills: message You: thanks I'll try sort this out Since yeah, you waiting for multiple hours, and then calling us in the middle of a bo3 is pretty unacceptable [FXO] Moosegills: ya not to be rude but just cuz he's a korean and has a good chance of qualifying they are gonna make up some bull shit thing You: Right I already told them, if they allow him to play now I'm forfeiting. May sound kiddy, but this would be stupid to alter the rules like this. [FXO] Moosegills: ya HOLD ON A SECOND WE ARE SEEING IF WE WANT MIYA IN WINNERS OR DEMUSLIM AND MOOSE TO FF TALKING TO PP HIGHER UP PPL* You: Ok So After this huge debacle We're apparently still in this [FXO] Moosegills: Interesting i dont' know if its offical tho since he told genna to talk to that dude You: Do you mind if we play our match in say 5 minutes or so? I'm just getting incredibly tired and frustrated [FXO] Moosegills: ya if they don't say anything in like 5 min might as well have our match results ready genna disconnected This conversation spanned over the course of a few hours, and we were told several things from, it's being re-done, it's not being re-done - Hold on, until roughly 4pm. In which I was in the middle of a bo3, 1-0 down, 10 minutes into the 2nd game. I specifically told an admin I believe the nickname was Zorgon to bring everybody together and sort this out - in Which everybody involved was invited to a private channel, sasquatch, Genna, Miya, Moosegills myself and 2 admins. I've done very silly things in the past, such as giving a regame to Scarlett, I've also been rather silly today and I don't want my behavior today to leave a sour taste in peoples mouths, as without this being too fired at me, I've had things happen to me, and this really should not have been my argument to fight in the first place. I'm in a mental situation, losing a bo3 and my chance at the code A qualifier - along with a decision being made, and I'm forced to either accept it which is unfair to both me and moosegills, especially moosegills at this moment in time or choose to question it and go against it. Luckily with me going against the call (even in the way that I did it) It was brought to Genna's attention, and luckily Genna agreed that the call of MLG to try reinstate Miya into the bracket, reversing matches and eliminating matches entirely would be wrong. I remember being in a very similar spot regarding a game vs feast on LAN, in which Someone messaged feast exactly what I was doing in game, and the admins paused the game and asked me what I wanted to do in that situation. Regame or go - So I had the choice to pro-long the situation, and waste a lot of peoples time or to go ahead with a disadvantage. Players should not go through a lot of the things they do in tournaments like this, and more often than not problems tend to arise in these qualifiers, more so than else where. So I apologize for how rash my actions sounded. I was simply a little shocked by the fact they tried to do this in the first place. | ||
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Faerie
39 Posts
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RemarK
United States452 Posts
This is the conversation between players and referees, or at least part of it | ||
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Gaizokubanou
United States61 Posts
As for DeMuslim talking about quitting the tournament... I see it as more of instant reflex in a setting that was not really public, hence not a public declaration... Not the perfect reaction, but definitely understandable as that is his only real power other than to get EG's backing... speaking of which, where were the EG, FXO and coL management during all this? If I understand the transcription correctly, all this took over an hour at least, so certainly every teamed players had a chance to contact their managers? I can imagine the public poopstorm that would have crapped all over this tournament if Genna didn't choose to stand behind DeMuslim, Sasquatch and Moose (which is something that I assume good number of people thought would be the normal course of action; to stand behind your own players no matter what). Perhaps EG, FXO and coL management would have stepped in if things went down that road. Poor Miya... | ||
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tadL
Croatia679 Posts
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Moosegills
United States558 Posts
On May 05 2013 16:00 Waxangel wrote: I can see why MLG wanted to make this decision, I don't think there's a clear cut right or wrong in this case in terms of how they wanted to handle things. In any case, it was an interesting and brave move on your part to do what you did, considering that there's decades of professional athletics telling us that the precedent is support your players at all costs. Your team, your rules, your values. But demuslim's hostage taking and moosegill's piggybacking is still fucking hilarious You talk to me like I'm a 8 year old. Can't I have an opinion too??? Imagine this You are trying to be an up and coming player while still attending college. You do better than expected in premier qualifier beating quanticenter and end up being invited for the invite only qualifier. Win your first bo3 and then have to play Miya next. You ask admins to try to find him. You tweet at him. The walkover time for winners round 2 gets delayed twice. You receive the walkover. Now you are 1-1 vs Demuslim. A player that you know is better than you and you are 1 game from getting into NA Premier league which would be a HUGE FUCKING DEAL to you considering there is about nothing left for the NA scene for said "up and comers" Put yourself in my situation? You wouldn't to just quit after what they were gonna do. No need to be a douche and randomly insult me. | ||
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