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United States32963 Posts
On May 05 2013 16:57 Moosegills wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 16:00 Waxangel wrote:
I can see why MLG wanted to make this decision, I don't think there's a clear cut right or wrong in this case in terms of how they wanted to handle things. In any case, it was an interesting and brave move on your part to do what you did, considering that there's decades of professional athletics telling us that the precedent is support your players at all costs. Your team, your rules, your values.
But demuslim's hostage taking and moosegill's piggybacking is still fucking hilarious You talk to me like I'm a 8 year old. Can't I have an opinion too??? Imagine this You are trying to be an up and coming player while still attending college. You do better than expected in premier qualifier beating quanticenter and end up being invited for the invite only qualifier. Win your first bo3 and then have to play Miya next. You ask admins to try to find him. You tweet at him. The walkover time for winners round 2 gets delayed twice. You receive the walkover. Now you are 1-1 vs Demuslim. A player that you know is better than you and you are 1 game from getting into NA Premier league which would be a HUGE FUCKING DEAL to you considering there is about nothing left for the NA scene for said "up and comers" Put yourself in my situation? You wouldn't to just quit after what they were gonna do. No need to be a douche and randomly insult me.
your situation is sympathetic
but in the end, you got bailed out by genna
demuslim's threats, and your accusations towards MLG of being biased, didn't help anyone
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This thread is not going to be good...
more unnecessary esports drama incoming...
collectively many people were at fault and this lead to a very awkward situation
i don't see why people have to create more drama now in this thread. otherwise things are going to be ugly. let's just respect the decision of genna right now and calm down
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On May 05 2013 17:01 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 16:57 Moosegills wrote:On May 05 2013 16:00 Waxangel wrote:
I can see why MLG wanted to make this decision, I don't think there's a clear cut right or wrong in this case in terms of how they wanted to handle things. In any case, it was an interesting and brave move on your part to do what you did, considering that there's decades of professional athletics telling us that the precedent is support your players at all costs. Your team, your rules, your values.
But demuslim's hostage taking and moosegill's piggybacking is still fucking hilarious You talk to me like I'm a 8 year old. Can't I have an opinion too??? Imagine this You are trying to be an up and coming player while still attending college. You do better than expected in premier qualifier beating quanticenter and end up being invited for the invite only qualifier. Win your first bo3 and then have to play Miya next. You ask admins to try to find him. You tweet at him. The walkover time for winners round 2 gets delayed twice. You receive the walkover. Now you are 1-1 vs Demuslim. A player that you know is better than you and you are 1 game from getting into NA Premier league which would be a HUGE FUCKING DEAL to you considering there is about nothing left for the NA scene for said "up and comers" Put yourself in my situation? You wouldn't to just quit after what they were gonna do. No need to be a douche and randomly insult me. your situation is sympathetic but in the end, you got bailed out by genna demuslim's threats, and your accusations towards MLG of being biased, didn't help anyone
So because Genne has integrity moose and demuslim attempting to stand up for themselves in the only way that players can is "fucking hilarious" ?
Edit: Actually, nevermind, you've clearly made up your mind and have your biases and I've made up my mind and have my biases.
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On May 05 2013 17:01 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 16:57 Moosegills wrote:On May 05 2013 16:00 Waxangel wrote:
I can see why MLG wanted to make this decision, I don't think there's a clear cut right or wrong in this case in terms of how they wanted to handle things. In any case, it was an interesting and brave move on your part to do what you did, considering that there's decades of professional athletics telling us that the precedent is support your players at all costs. Your team, your rules, your values.
But demuslim's hostage taking and moosegill's piggybacking is still fucking hilarious You talk to me like I'm a 8 year old. Can't I have an opinion too??? Imagine this You are trying to be an up and coming player while still attending college. You do better than expected in premier qualifier beating quanticenter and end up being invited for the invite only qualifier. Win your first bo3 and then have to play Miya next. You ask admins to try to find him. You tweet at him. The walkover time for winners round 2 gets delayed twice. You receive the walkover. Now you are 1-1 vs Demuslim. A player that you know is better than you and you are 1 game from getting into NA Premier league which would be a HUGE FUCKING DEAL to you considering there is about nothing left for the NA scene for said "up and comers" Put yourself in my situation? You wouldn't to just quit after what they were gonna do. No need to be a douche and randomly insult me. your situation is sympathetic but in the end, you got bailed out by genna demuslim's threats, and your accusations towards MLG of being biased, didn't help anyone
You act as if I'm supposed to just let what they wanted to do happen with no opposing opinion in the situation I dealt. And then tweeting at me saying I'm "fucking lucky I had demuslim to ride on" and saying on here "moosegills piggybacking is still fucking hilarious" You are literally just a douchebag.
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2 points coming off from reading this:
1. It was indeed Miya's personal responsibility to know his/her match schedule ahead of time. The fact that Miya's team was aware of the schedule on May 1st, yet Miya was asking about it the day before the match, leaves some room for improvement on his/her team. Miya even asking two days before the match could have prevented this from happening. Miya and his team could've prevented this incident between May 1st to May 4th.
2. It's obvious that the MLG admin made a mistake and it's a common human mistake that happens to other organizations and events. However, what cannot be looked over is the passiveness of this admin to rectify his error. Sending a correction by chat message 2 hours before the actual event and with no response back from Miya should've raised a red flag on MLG's part. Furthermore, that MLG admin should have immediately notified his or her supervisor in order to consider this into their decision of whether or not to give Miya's first opponent a win over. This admin could've prevented this incident on May 5th.
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nothing but major props, we need more people like you in this community!
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Ahh MLG, the shining beacon of professionalism.
Mad respect for you Genna and the Axiom team. I am, and will continue to be, a huge fan.
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United States32963 Posts
On May 05 2013 17:07 Moosegills wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 17:01 Waxangel wrote:On May 05 2013 16:57 Moosegills wrote:On May 05 2013 16:00 Waxangel wrote:
I can see why MLG wanted to make this decision, I don't think there's a clear cut right or wrong in this case in terms of how they wanted to handle things. In any case, it was an interesting and brave move on your part to do what you did, considering that there's decades of professional athletics telling us that the precedent is support your players at all costs. Your team, your rules, your values.
But demuslim's hostage taking and moosegill's piggybacking is still fucking hilarious You talk to me like I'm a 8 year old. Can't I have an opinion too??? Imagine this You are trying to be an up and coming player while still attending college. You do better than expected in premier qualifier beating quanticenter and end up being invited for the invite only qualifier. Win your first bo3 and then have to play Miya next. You ask admins to try to find him. You tweet at him. The walkover time for winners round 2 gets delayed twice. You receive the walkover. Now you are 1-1 vs Demuslim. A player that you know is better than you and you are 1 game from getting into NA Premier league which would be a HUGE FUCKING DEAL to you considering there is about nothing left for the NA scene for said "up and comers" Put yourself in my situation? You wouldn't to just quit after what they were gonna do. No need to be a douche and randomly insult me. your situation is sympathetic but in the end, you got bailed out by genna demuslim's threats, and your accusations towards MLG of being biased, didn't help anyone You act as if I'm supposed to just let what they wanted to do happen with no opposing opinion in the situation I dealt. And then tweeting at me saying I'm "fucking lucky I had demuslim to ride on" and saying on here "moosegills piggybacking is still fucking hilarious" You are literally just a douchebag.
I imagine there are better ways of resolving an issue than immediately deciding that a tournament is biased against you (as your chats with demuslim have shown) and then accusing the tournament organizers of said bias.
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On May 05 2013 17:08 BirdKiller wrote:
2 points coming off from reading this:
1. It was indeed Miya's personal responsibility to know his/her match schedule ahead of time. The fact that Miya's team was aware of the schedule on May 1st, yet Miya was asking about it the day before the match, leaves some room for improvement on his/her team. Miya even asking two days before the match could have prevented this from happening. Miya and his team could've prevented this incident between May 1st to May 4th.
Nope, you really can't. WCS has proven up to this point that these dates and times given out via email or by the site cannot be relied upon as being accurate as they frequently change. Information from admins trumps everything. If an admin says Time Y and the email says Time X then you assume Time Y is correct.
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It's pretty silly that Genna has to intervene or else MLG admins will screw the bracket up (again) and just make everyone angry. I think that should have been resolved in another way, either letting Miya completely out of the tournament and consolidating him with another shot in a favourable position (are there any more qualifiers?) or putting him in the LB because it's the most simple solution. While it is still unfair it would be consistent and in the future players and teams would be able to predict MLGs hickups and their solutions better. Given the fact that Comm(and Hyun I think? can't find him on Liquipedia :/ ) killed some players during his run just to get disqualified and MLG did not re-allow these players back into the bracket, unfair treatment seems to be business-as-usual.
On a side note: Demuslim threatening to quit should not have influenced the admin's decision. It's his problemand would even be a benefit for the tournament in case Miya would be put into the upper bracket. One less game makes the hickup a little smaller. MLGs reputation is dwindling all the same.
On May 05 2013 15:58 cabosetv wrote:
I think he should of expanded on that view and use their own logic against them.
what does should of mean? oO
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On May 05 2013 17:17 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 17:08 BirdKiller wrote:
2 points coming off from reading this:
1. It was indeed Miya's personal responsibility to know his/her match schedule ahead of time. The fact that Miya's team was aware of the schedule on May 1st, yet Miya was asking about it the day before the match, leaves some room for improvement on his/her team. Miya even asking two days before the match could have prevented this from happening. Miya and his team could've prevented this incident between May 1st to May 4th.
Nope, you really can't. WCS has proven up to this point that these dates and times given out via email or by the site cannot be relied upon as being accurate as they frequently change. Information from admins trumps everything. If an admin says Time Y and the email says Time X then you assume Time Y is correct.
Which in itself is laughable, how hard is it for a tournament to do a simple fucking schedule.
Mad props to all and sucks for Miya.
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On May 05 2013 17:17 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 17:07 Moosegills wrote:On May 05 2013 17:01 Waxangel wrote:On May 05 2013 16:57 Moosegills wrote:On May 05 2013 16:00 Waxangel wrote:
I can see why MLG wanted to make this decision, I don't think there's a clear cut right or wrong in this case in terms of how they wanted to handle things. In any case, it was an interesting and brave move on your part to do what you did, considering that there's decades of professional athletics telling us that the precedent is support your players at all costs. Your team, your rules, your values.
But demuslim's hostage taking and moosegill's piggybacking is still fucking hilarious You talk to me like I'm a 8 year old. Can't I have an opinion too??? Imagine this You are trying to be an up and coming player while still attending college. You do better than expected in premier qualifier beating quanticenter and end up being invited for the invite only qualifier. Win your first bo3 and then have to play Miya next. You ask admins to try to find him. You tweet at him. The walkover time for winners round 2 gets delayed twice. You receive the walkover. Now you are 1-1 vs Demuslim. A player that you know is better than you and you are 1 game from getting into NA Premier league which would be a HUGE FUCKING DEAL to you considering there is about nothing left for the NA scene for said "up and comers" Put yourself in my situation? You wouldn't to just quit after what they were gonna do. No need to be a douche and randomly insult me. your situation is sympathetic but in the end, you got bailed out by genna demuslim's threats, and your accusations towards MLG of being biased, didn't help anyone You act as if I'm supposed to just let what they wanted to do happen with no opposing opinion in the situation I dealt. And then tweeting at me saying I'm "fucking lucky I had demuslim to ride on" and saying on here "moosegills piggybacking is still fucking hilarious" You are literally just a douchebag. I imagine there are better ways of resolving an issue than immediately deciding that a tournament is biased against you (as your chats with demuslim have shown) and then accusing the tournament organizers of said bias.
Yo I imagine there are better ways of disagreeing with my opinion then insulting me, no?
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On May 05 2013 15:58 cabosetv wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 15:51 ChadMann wrote:
I think that is pretty unfair, Demu was protesting the decision and the only power he has in the situation is over himself. So protest by withdrawal is perfectly understandable. The admins were basically punishing demu and moosegils for an admin error. The other guys are there to play their games and for the brackets not to be held up walk overs are part of keeping things moving. Ben alluded to the slippery slope by saying, if it was any other player you won't do the same, but he never completely went there.
It actually wasn't Demu that said that.... I agree there may have been other options. But self withdrawal is a legitimate form of protest in what I can only see as pretty unfair treatment.
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United States32963 Posts
On May 05 2013 17:25 Moosegills wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 17:17 Waxangel wrote:On May 05 2013 17:07 Moosegills wrote:On May 05 2013 17:01 Waxangel wrote:On May 05 2013 16:57 Moosegills wrote:On May 05 2013 16:00 Waxangel wrote:
I can see why MLG wanted to make this decision, I don't think there's a clear cut right or wrong in this case in terms of how they wanted to handle things. In any case, it was an interesting and brave move on your part to do what you did, considering that there's decades of professional athletics telling us that the precedent is support your players at all costs. Your team, your rules, your values.
But demuslim's hostage taking and moosegill's piggybacking is still fucking hilarious You talk to me like I'm a 8 year old. Can't I have an opinion too??? Imagine this You are trying to be an up and coming player while still attending college. You do better than expected in premier qualifier beating quanticenter and end up being invited for the invite only qualifier. Win your first bo3 and then have to play Miya next. You ask admins to try to find him. You tweet at him. The walkover time for winners round 2 gets delayed twice. You receive the walkover. Now you are 1-1 vs Demuslim. A player that you know is better than you and you are 1 game from getting into NA Premier league which would be a HUGE FUCKING DEAL to you considering there is about nothing left for the NA scene for said "up and comers" Put yourself in my situation? You wouldn't to just quit after what they were gonna do. No need to be a douche and randomly insult me. your situation is sympathetic but in the end, you got bailed out by genna demuslim's threats, and your accusations towards MLG of being biased, didn't help anyone You act as if I'm supposed to just let what they wanted to do happen with no opposing opinion in the situation I dealt. And then tweeting at me saying I'm "fucking lucky I had demuslim to ride on" and saying on here "moosegills piggybacking is still fucking hilarious" You are literally just a douchebag. I imagine there are better ways of resolving an issue than immediately deciding that a tournament is biased against you (as your chats with demuslim have shown) and then accusing the tournament organizers of said bias. Yo I imagine there are better ways of disagreeing with my opinion then insulting me, no?
I'll give you that
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On May 05 2013 16:16 iNcontroL wrote:
[...] having been a player jerked around by leagues before [...]
This is the point I don't really understand, maybe I'm not selfish enough.
No matter in what circumstance, I would try to avoid these situations for other people, so other people do the same.
I think, the players, even if they are rivals, should stick together. It's the only way to have a faire treat
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I don't have any insights in how big Miyas fault is. But as long as it is in doubt, that it is purely Miyas fault, a Player should try to help.
In this case, as it seems to me, another player was jerked around by a league. And next time, maybe Mixa is in the opposite situation and will behave the same. And the next player will be screwed...
As long as nobody starts, it will go on. And at some point everybody is screwed.
Somehow John Lennons "Imagine" comes to mind.
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On May 05 2013 17:39 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 17:25 Moosegills wrote:On May 05 2013 17:17 Waxangel wrote:On May 05 2013 17:07 Moosegills wrote:On May 05 2013 17:01 Waxangel wrote:On May 05 2013 16:57 Moosegills wrote:On May 05 2013 16:00 Waxangel wrote:
I can see why MLG wanted to make this decision, I don't think there's a clear cut right or wrong in this case in terms of how they wanted to handle things. In any case, it was an interesting and brave move on your part to do what you did, considering that there's decades of professional athletics telling us that the precedent is support your players at all costs. Your team, your rules, your values.
But demuslim's hostage taking and moosegill's piggybacking is still fucking hilarious You talk to me like I'm a 8 year old. Can't I have an opinion too??? Imagine this You are trying to be an up and coming player while still attending college. You do better than expected in premier qualifier beating quanticenter and end up being invited for the invite only qualifier. Win your first bo3 and then have to play Miya next. You ask admins to try to find him. You tweet at him. The walkover time for winners round 2 gets delayed twice. You receive the walkover. Now you are 1-1 vs Demuslim. A player that you know is better than you and you are 1 game from getting into NA Premier league which would be a HUGE FUCKING DEAL to you considering there is about nothing left for the NA scene for said "up and comers" Put yourself in my situation? You wouldn't to just quit after what they were gonna do. No need to be a douche and randomly insult me. your situation is sympathetic but in the end, you got bailed out by genna demuslim's threats, and your accusations towards MLG of being biased, didn't help anyone You act as if I'm supposed to just let what they wanted to do happen with no opposing opinion in the situation I dealt. And then tweeting at me saying I'm "fucking lucky I had demuslim to ride on" and saying on here "moosegills piggybacking is still fucking hilarious" You are literally just a douchebag. I imagine there are better ways of resolving an issue than immediately deciding that a tournament is biased against you (as your chats with demuslim have shown) and then accusing the tournament organizers of said bias. Yo I imagine there are better ways of disagreeing with my opinion then insulting me, no? I'll give you that
Well, at least you can man up and admit you were kind of a dick Wax
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Nothing like a bit of drama. Personally and yes its harsh and even unfair however.. one less non resident in this train wreck of a tournament is a good thing.
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No offense, but people should really start their posts with "I am X, the Y of team Z" for some form of clarity.
Unfortunate situation, but very nicely handled by you. Ultimately, as you say, the responsibility lies with the player / management.
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The tournament organizer should financially compensate the player(s) they dicked over in these cases. That way the organizer would be the one shouldering responsibility and actually paying for their mistakes instead of making players and/or their teams pay.
I haven't been following the whole WCS thing much, but from what I gathered (also regarding the mess with Chinese players), it might not even be this particular admin's fault either. MLG seems to be shuffling and re-shuffling the brackets and dates a lot, which is a really dodgy way to go about running a competition. The admin that relayed the information to Miya may as well have been caught in the middle of one of those re-shufflings. It may have been a mistake on his part not to double-check the latest schedule, but the root of the problem seems to be higher up in MLG ranks.
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Why are people saying this was childish behaviour by Demuslim? The shit MLG pulled on him during this WCS is the stuff that would make people quit the game.
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EPT
