• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:14
CEST 05:14
KST 12:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)72ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo31Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Mizenhauer's Douyu Cup Preview ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos) ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool BW General Discussion vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
The Games Industry And ATVI US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8659 users

Entropy vs Occams Razor. Early Siege Unit?

Blogs > decemberscalm
Post a Reply
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-16 19:45:29
April 16 2013 19:44 GMT
#1
This is purely for my own rant space so I can re-read it and get more perspective, also to lay my thoughts out instead of wasting 50 pages of paper and throwing away what I dislike.

Hi anyone who happens across this blog. Just a quick introduction to myself. I've been creating games since I was very young. I'd literally make multiplayer rpg's played across my houses rooms with various game mechanics. I was heavily involved in SCBW mapping, and dabbled in modding other things. I've spent hours and hours in the SC2 data editor. Currently I am most involved in the Starbow melee mod community.



I've been drawing up various mods for SC2 for years now. From procedural generated rogue likes to a WW1 mod that has actually progress quite a bit. Some are just aesthetics, like getting an immortal to keep aiming at targets even when moving (but not firing on the move), others are crazy experiments on how units behave.

I am an absolute fan of BW and constantly think on how SC2 could be changed to still have the merits of BW. My biggest motivation is two simple things. Watching 10 viewer count stream of BW is amazingly more entertaining than watching the 8k plus viewer streams on at any moment. This is game wise, not how entertaining the player is (Grubby is hilariously entertaining, Jaedong is a spectacle, but neither reflect upon the game compared to BW). The second thing is the innate joy I receive upon loading up a BW game, playing an easy ZvP and how much bloody fun simply using hydras to fight zealot/goons is. Why is there this stark contrast? Que Day9's rant about Frisbee's and Baseballs and the twitchy aspects to unit control in BW.





Introduction over, on to the main piece.

I am currently building and still fleshing out a for fun melee mod that is trying to encapsulate a lot of what I feel could make SC2 much more fun.

To understand my predicament first I'll need to give you a general taste of the tech tree and the unit roles within it for Terran. Keep in mind there are two Terran factions, because who needs balance right? Ahahaha, but seriously that shouldn't be a crazy issue, more on that later.
Terran Faction 1: Kel-Morian Combine
Tier 1: Rax
Marine- Generalist, Medic-Support, Ghost-Support/Siege, Firebat-Antiswarm
Fact-Vulture-Harrass/AreaControl, Tank-Hard Board Control (less mobile, more expensive, higher damage), Goliath-Hard Airspace control
Star-Wraith-Harasser/Light Airspace control, SciVess-Spell Support, Dropship, BC-Siege Unit

Now here is my conundrum. I want the mod to emphasis hard control being very possible. This is one of my favorite aspects from BW. Put a few cannons and a reaver behind a bridge and the enemy will not attempt to break it without a huge army and the right tools. That or simply finding somewhere else to attack of course.
I am theorizing that hard board control could be produced with fantastic results via more expensive, dangerous, and less mobile (longer siege time) siege tanks.
This means you are sans 1 mobile siege option.
My theory is I could replace the siege tanks role with another unit. My first concept for this unit in the KMC arsenal is an APC with a longer ranged grenade longer.
It won't do tons of damage, it isn't a good fighter by itself. Think about early to midgame TvZ. T is stuck waiting to bust down sunken colonies until siege tanks are there. This wouldn't be possible with a slower, less mobile, longer setup tank. Instead it could be replaced by an APC that would slowly whittle sunken colonies down.

This parralels addition thinking about collosus and reaver. Perhaps a collosus could be the immobile hard board control and the reaver the siege unit.
Lurker/swarm host could serve as hard board control. Not sure for the siege unit yet because Z already has so much late game tools between dark swarm, ultras, guardians, blords, etc.

My first approach to unit lineups was that of simplicity. BW was so beautiful because each units interaction was so important. Basic unit making dictates that if you over inflate the amount of units, there will be a lot of unused ones. It is far more important to make sure the fewer count of units you do put in promote good game play.

Too many roles involved means roles overlaps and it the game suddenly becomes wishy washy and the units themselves just seem out of place against the backdrop of other units on their race.

I will assuredly be thinking on this matter more.
Assuming the new roles are added this would be the lineup.
Terran: Dominion
Marine, Medic, ?Maruader?-Early ish, but weak seige unit after range upgrade, ghost
Tank, Hellion, Widow Mine,
Warhound (air support, perhaps it could be given the weak siege role, but having a bunch of anti air units that can all siege seems a bit odd)
The Diamondback could also serve as a weak siege unit, but aesthetically it looks out of place so the marauder or warhound is probably the best bet.
Banshee, Raven, BC, Viking(light air control)

Terran: Kel-Morian Combine
Marine, Medic, Firebat, Spectre
Vulture, Tank, APC (weak siege role as discussed before, preferably with a recquire upgrade for that purpose), Goliath
Wraith, Sci Vess, BC


*****
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
April 16 2013 20:00 GMT
#2
Go go go December!
Creator of Starbow
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2503 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-16 20:27:29
April 16 2013 20:27 GMT
#3
Watching 10 viewer count stream of BW is amazingly more entertaining than watching the 8k plus viewer streams on at any moment


THIS :D

Man i Hope another TLS starts soon do

Edit: format
"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
23:30
FSL TeamLeague: ST vs POG
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft659
WinterStarcraft294
ProTech115
RuFF_SC2 115
Nina 107
FoxeR 48
Livibee 27
StarCraft: Brood War
Noble 27
Purpose 21
Icarus 5
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm156
Counter-Strike
taco 374
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King50
Other Games
summit1g19979
ViBE121
AZ_Axe95
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick870
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 106
• OhrlRock 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo532
• Stunt213
Upcoming Events
Douyu Cup 2020
1h 46m
Maestros of the Game
9h 16m
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
10h 46m
Bonyth vs TerrOr
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
XuanXuan vs TBD
Douyu Cup 2020
1d 1h
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 10h
Mihu vs TBD
Online Event
1d 11h
RSL Revival
1d 22h
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
Bombastic Starleague
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
OSC
4 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Bombastic Starleague
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
HomeStory Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.