• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:26
CEST 08:26
KST 15:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)12Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format13[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!5Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back12BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) BGE Stara Zagora to be held again in June 2025
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
Etiquete rules in Asl? Recommended FPV games (post-KeSPA) Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool
Tourneys
[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
The Experiences We Want and …
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10871 users

Entropy vs Occams Razor. Early Siege Unit?

Blogs > decemberscalm
Post a Reply
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-16 19:45:29
April 16 2013 19:44 GMT
#1
This is purely for my own rant space so I can re-read it and get more perspective, also to lay my thoughts out instead of wasting 50 pages of paper and throwing away what I dislike.

Hi anyone who happens across this blog. Just a quick introduction to myself. I've been creating games since I was very young. I'd literally make multiplayer rpg's played across my houses rooms with various game mechanics. I was heavily involved in SCBW mapping, and dabbled in modding other things. I've spent hours and hours in the SC2 data editor. Currently I am most involved in the Starbow melee mod community.



I've been drawing up various mods for SC2 for years now. From procedural generated rogue likes to a WW1 mod that has actually progress quite a bit. Some are just aesthetics, like getting an immortal to keep aiming at targets even when moving (but not firing on the move), others are crazy experiments on how units behave.

I am an absolute fan of BW and constantly think on how SC2 could be changed to still have the merits of BW. My biggest motivation is two simple things. Watching 10 viewer count stream of BW is amazingly more entertaining than watching the 8k plus viewer streams on at any moment. This is game wise, not how entertaining the player is (Grubby is hilariously entertaining, Jaedong is a spectacle, but neither reflect upon the game compared to BW). The second thing is the innate joy I receive upon loading up a BW game, playing an easy ZvP and how much bloody fun simply using hydras to fight zealot/goons is. Why is there this stark contrast? Que Day9's rant about Frisbee's and Baseballs and the twitchy aspects to unit control in BW.





Introduction over, on to the main piece.

I am currently building and still fleshing out a for fun melee mod that is trying to encapsulate a lot of what I feel could make SC2 much more fun.

To understand my predicament first I'll need to give you a general taste of the tech tree and the unit roles within it for Terran. Keep in mind there are two Terran factions, because who needs balance right? Ahahaha, but seriously that shouldn't be a crazy issue, more on that later.
Terran Faction 1: Kel-Morian Combine
Tier 1: Rax
Marine- Generalist, Medic-Support, Ghost-Support/Siege, Firebat-Antiswarm
Fact-Vulture-Harrass/AreaControl, Tank-Hard Board Control (less mobile, more expensive, higher damage), Goliath-Hard Airspace control
Star-Wraith-Harasser/Light Airspace control, SciVess-Spell Support, Dropship, BC-Siege Unit

Now here is my conundrum. I want the mod to emphasis hard control being very possible. This is one of my favorite aspects from BW. Put a few cannons and a reaver behind a bridge and the enemy will not attempt to break it without a huge army and the right tools. That or simply finding somewhere else to attack of course.
I am theorizing that hard board control could be produced with fantastic results via more expensive, dangerous, and less mobile (longer siege time) siege tanks.
This means you are sans 1 mobile siege option.
My theory is I could replace the siege tanks role with another unit. My first concept for this unit in the KMC arsenal is an APC with a longer ranged grenade longer.
It won't do tons of damage, it isn't a good fighter by itself. Think about early to midgame TvZ. T is stuck waiting to bust down sunken colonies until siege tanks are there. This wouldn't be possible with a slower, less mobile, longer setup tank. Instead it could be replaced by an APC that would slowly whittle sunken colonies down.

This parralels addition thinking about collosus and reaver. Perhaps a collosus could be the immobile hard board control and the reaver the siege unit.
Lurker/swarm host could serve as hard board control. Not sure for the siege unit yet because Z already has so much late game tools between dark swarm, ultras, guardians, blords, etc.

My first approach to unit lineups was that of simplicity. BW was so beautiful because each units interaction was so important. Basic unit making dictates that if you over inflate the amount of units, there will be a lot of unused ones. It is far more important to make sure the fewer count of units you do put in promote good game play.

Too many roles involved means roles overlaps and it the game suddenly becomes wishy washy and the units themselves just seem out of place against the backdrop of other units on their race.

I will assuredly be thinking on this matter more.
Assuming the new roles are added this would be the lineup.
Terran: Dominion
Marine, Medic, ?Maruader?-Early ish, but weak seige unit after range upgrade, ghost
Tank, Hellion, Widow Mine,
Warhound (air support, perhaps it could be given the weak siege role, but having a bunch of anti air units that can all siege seems a bit odd)
The Diamondback could also serve as a weak siege unit, but aesthetically it looks out of place so the marauder or warhound is probably the best bet.
Banshee, Raven, BC, Viking(light air control)

Terran: Kel-Morian Combine
Marine, Medic, Firebat, Spectre
Vulture, Tank, APC (weak siege role as discussed before, preferably with a recquire upgrade for that purpose), Goliath
Wraith, Sci Vess, BC


*****
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
April 16 2013 20:00 GMT
#2
Go go go December!
Creator of Starbow
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2503 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-16 20:27:29
April 16 2013 20:27 GMT
#3
Watching 10 viewer count stream of BW is amazingly more entertaining than watching the 8k plus viewer streams on at any moment


THIS :D

Man i Hope another TLS starts soon do

Edit: format
"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 34m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft924
oGsTOP 128
StarCraft: Brood War
Bale 17
ajuk12(nOOB) 16
Icarus 13
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm139
League of Legends
JimRising 710
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 1211
Other Games
summit1g5527
C9.Mang0298
XaKoH 163
RuFF_SC285
Trikslyr12
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1801
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH298
• practicex 21
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota287
League of Legends
• Stunt650
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 34m
CrankTV Team League
4h 34m
WardiTV Qualifier
5h 34m
Epic.LAN
6h 34m
Big Brain Bouts
9h 34m
SHIN vs Elazer
Percival vs Nicoract
Reynor vs Lambo
Replay Cast
17h 34m
RSL Revival
1d 2h
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
1d 3h
Epic.LAN
1d 6h
IPSL
1d 9h
Dragon vs Hawk
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
OSC
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-13
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Escore Tournament S3: W3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.