• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:27
CEST 18:27
KST 01:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)8Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE14Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b8IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly5Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"9
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 1/8 Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b
Tourneys
SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Official Announcement PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game BW Drama: Terror's Debt Incident + C9 disbanding BW General Discussion ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvT advise for noobs
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread 2026-27 Football Thread placeholder TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3598 users

Entropy vs Occams Razor. Early Siege Unit?

Blogs > decemberscalm
Post a Reply
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-16 19:45:29
April 16 2013 19:44 GMT
#1
This is purely for my own rant space so I can re-read it and get more perspective, also to lay my thoughts out instead of wasting 50 pages of paper and throwing away what I dislike.

Hi anyone who happens across this blog. Just a quick introduction to myself. I've been creating games since I was very young. I'd literally make multiplayer rpg's played across my houses rooms with various game mechanics. I was heavily involved in SCBW mapping, and dabbled in modding other things. I've spent hours and hours in the SC2 data editor. Currently I am most involved in the Starbow melee mod community.



I've been drawing up various mods for SC2 for years now. From procedural generated rogue likes to a WW1 mod that has actually progress quite a bit. Some are just aesthetics, like getting an immortal to keep aiming at targets even when moving (but not firing on the move), others are crazy experiments on how units behave.

I am an absolute fan of BW and constantly think on how SC2 could be changed to still have the merits of BW. My biggest motivation is two simple things. Watching 10 viewer count stream of BW is amazingly more entertaining than watching the 8k plus viewer streams on at any moment. This is game wise, not how entertaining the player is (Grubby is hilariously entertaining, Jaedong is a spectacle, but neither reflect upon the game compared to BW). The second thing is the innate joy I receive upon loading up a BW game, playing an easy ZvP and how much bloody fun simply using hydras to fight zealot/goons is. Why is there this stark contrast? Que Day9's rant about Frisbee's and Baseballs and the twitchy aspects to unit control in BW.





Introduction over, on to the main piece.

I am currently building and still fleshing out a for fun melee mod that is trying to encapsulate a lot of what I feel could make SC2 much more fun.

To understand my predicament first I'll need to give you a general taste of the tech tree and the unit roles within it for Terran. Keep in mind there are two Terran factions, because who needs balance right? Ahahaha, but seriously that shouldn't be a crazy issue, more on that later.
Terran Faction 1: Kel-Morian Combine
Tier 1: Rax
Marine- Generalist, Medic-Support, Ghost-Support/Siege, Firebat-Antiswarm
Fact-Vulture-Harrass/AreaControl, Tank-Hard Board Control (less mobile, more expensive, higher damage), Goliath-Hard Airspace control
Star-Wraith-Harasser/Light Airspace control, SciVess-Spell Support, Dropship, BC-Siege Unit

Now here is my conundrum. I want the mod to emphasis hard control being very possible. This is one of my favorite aspects from BW. Put a few cannons and a reaver behind a bridge and the enemy will not attempt to break it without a huge army and the right tools. That or simply finding somewhere else to attack of course.
I am theorizing that hard board control could be produced with fantastic results via more expensive, dangerous, and less mobile (longer siege time) siege tanks.
This means you are sans 1 mobile siege option.
My theory is I could replace the siege tanks role with another unit. My first concept for this unit in the KMC arsenal is an APC with a longer ranged grenade longer.
It won't do tons of damage, it isn't a good fighter by itself. Think about early to midgame TvZ. T is stuck waiting to bust down sunken colonies until siege tanks are there. This wouldn't be possible with a slower, less mobile, longer setup tank. Instead it could be replaced by an APC that would slowly whittle sunken colonies down.

This parralels addition thinking about collosus and reaver. Perhaps a collosus could be the immobile hard board control and the reaver the siege unit.
Lurker/swarm host could serve as hard board control. Not sure for the siege unit yet because Z already has so much late game tools between dark swarm, ultras, guardians, blords, etc.

My first approach to unit lineups was that of simplicity. BW was so beautiful because each units interaction was so important. Basic unit making dictates that if you over inflate the amount of units, there will be a lot of unused ones. It is far more important to make sure the fewer count of units you do put in promote good game play.

Too many roles involved means roles overlaps and it the game suddenly becomes wishy washy and the units themselves just seem out of place against the backdrop of other units on their race.

I will assuredly be thinking on this matter more.
Assuming the new roles are added this would be the lineup.
Terran: Dominion
Marine, Medic, ?Maruader?-Early ish, but weak seige unit after range upgrade, ghost
Tank, Hellion, Widow Mine,
Warhound (air support, perhaps it could be given the weak siege role, but having a bunch of anti air units that can all siege seems a bit odd)
The Diamondback could also serve as a weak siege unit, but aesthetically it looks out of place so the marauder or warhound is probably the best bet.
Banshee, Raven, BC, Viking(light air control)

Terran: Kel-Morian Combine
Marine, Medic, Firebat, Spectre
Vulture, Tank, APC (weak siege role as discussed before, preferably with a recquire upgrade for that purpose), Goliath
Wraith, Sci Vess, BC


*****
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
April 16 2013 20:00 GMT
#2
Go go go December!
Creator of Starbow
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2503 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-16 20:27:29
April 16 2013 20:27 GMT
#3
Watching 10 viewer count stream of BW is amazingly more entertaining than watching the 8k plus viewer streams on at any moment


THIS :D

Man i Hope another TLS starts soon do

Edit: format
"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Brain Bouts
16:00
#124
Spirit vs sOs
GgMaChine vs Percival
Serral vs MaxPax
RotterdaM565
TKL 133
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 565
TKL 133
XaKoH 113
ProTech70
RushiSC 42
BRAT_OK 34
MindelVK 9
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 35286
Calm 7828
firebathero 1304
Shuttle 928
Artosis 693
Mini 455
Tasteless 257
Sea.KH 50
Rock 10
NotJumperer 2
Dota 2
Gorgc8038
qojqva1935
420jenkins215
canceldota26
Counter-Strike
fl0m3990
Other Games
FrodaN1706
hiko922
B2W.Neo900
uThermal149
ToD133
QueenE66
Trikslyr48
UpATreeSC43
Mew2King29
Organizations
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV 78
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 44
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3875
• masondota2655
League of Legends
• Jankos1555
• TFBlade1013
Other Games
• Shiphtur228
Upcoming Events
OSC
6h 3m
Replay Cast
7h 33m
Afreeca Starleague
11h 33m
RSL Revival
16h 33m
ByuN vs SHIN
Solar vs Lambo
WardiTV Summer Champion…
18h 33m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 11h
RSL Revival
1d 16h
Clem vs Serral
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 19h
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-30
SCTL 2026 Spring
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Escore Tournament S3: W5
RSL Revival: Season 6
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026

Upcoming

ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
Escore Tournament S3: W8
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.