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Devs and Esports (Part 1)

Blogs > LeLoup
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Jinxed
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States6450 Posts
April 03 2013 23:59 GMT
#1
So the big announcement by Blizzard has come and gone, and now here we are as a community standing at the very crossroads of Esports itself. First Riot began sponsoring tournaments and promoting Esports with their own money, creating a sort of 'premier' league for the professional players of their games, and now we have Blizzard following suit. (writer's note: I am not going into semantics about which came first, just stating LCS was running before WCS was).

Like it or not this is now a precedent in Esports. Blizzard and Riot have stated that this is the way that you create successful leagues and a healthy atmosphere and now others will follow suit.

I am pondering this because right now I am on my way to attempting to be a caster for Dota 2, and this has the possibility of affecting quite a lot of what I want to do in the future.

I will say this outright. I have always disliked the way that Riot has gone about it. To me it has always felt like the tournaments need Riot to survive, and that a lot of people are relying on them to have a livelihood. Not just players, but casters, producers, and leagues in general seem to be relying on Riot money in order to run everything. Honestly as a wannabe caster I don't know how much I like the idea that tournaments have to use Riot employed casters, in my eyes it pretty much divides it to this mentality that 'I have to be employed by them or else.'

I feel like this is the wrong way to go about it. I prefer it to be more independent where tournaments can get their own teams freely, own casters as they want (/can afford), and can continue to do things their way if they like, without feeling like a second class tournament.

(second note: I'd love to learn more about the way LCS interacts with other tournaments. I've never really gotten into LoL enough to really want to research it, but if someone reading this can give me a couple of points about how they tend to interact and operate I'd love to hear it in the comments.)

With that being said, I think Blizzard has it right.

From the initial announcement it sounds amazing. It just feels like it's balanced perfectly for everyone. You have the togetherness that should be there in Esports (declaring a world champ for the game every year is really cool and really awesome, you know it is) and yet it doesn't feel like they are constricting it where other tournaments and leagues can't do their own thing. Granted they have to work a bit with Blizzard, it doesn't feel like Blizzard would say 'Okay, but this is the way you have to do it, and you can only do it with these people.'

Granted there is still a lot of time and maybe things will change, but this is just on first impressions.

The thing about it though is that as a Dota 2 fan(atic) and wannabe caster I take a look at The International and have to consider 'How can we make this better?'

Now let me say this right now. TI2 is why I am a Dota fan(atic). That was so awesome that there really aren't words for it. The production, the games, everything about it was amazing, and I challenge anyone to name one tournament that was better than it to date.

But now we have this from Blizzard and Riot, and it makes me wonder if this is what Esports will need to be in order to survive? And if this is the case, then what does that mean for Valve and Dota 2?

Valve has stated that they want Dota 2 to stand on its own without help from them. That is why they are adding Couriers, Pendants, Tournament Tickets, and everything else like that. It's a great idea, no doubt. Making teams and tournaments sustainable is one of the best things that a developer can do IMO. However when you look at what else is happening I have to ask "what about the scene itself?"

I mean, think about it right now. The only scenes that are really doing well for Dota 2 are the CIS scene and China/SEA ones. Western Europe is Fnatic, Mouz, No Tidehunter, and Qpad (arguably one could add AL to that list, but honestly they don't feel that "solid" IMO). North America is even worse with only Team Liquid, Dignitas, and EG.

And the worst part of it is that there really seems like there is no way for a new team to break out in either region.

I mean other than The Premier League and arguably The Defense these two scenes seem really starved for attention and viewership that is required in order to break out and become pro gamers. I'm not saying I want there to be this artificial influx of teams from Valve creating a league for only NA teams, but with so many tournaments all having the same teams in them constantly it means that the lesser teams are starved out of contention.

One of the best things about big tournaments like MLG is that when it is open you can have teams and players come out of literally nowhere and make a name for themselves. The only team that I feel you can say has managed to do that in Dota 2 so far is No Tidehunter, and that was because they were given the opportunity.

I don't know if what we need as a community is more smaller tournaments, but I think that is a good place to start. Showing off the game should come first and foremost I think, and after you show off how good the game is then people start to take a look at everything else (including how amazing some of the players of the game are at it). Right now it feels like we're at a a stage where there are these tiers of teams and how good they are and there really isn't a whole lot to separate them. As such they are always the ones you see and they are playing so much that it all really blends together.

The biggest problem IMO is the fact that most of these are gigantic leagues that span months upon months and at the end really have no steam left for the finals. Right now we just had The Defense end, Starladder is into its finals, Raidcall is in its Finals, and Premier League is just about into Playoffs as well.

And at the end of it all, I just stopped caring.

That is not good, that is not how it is supposed to work. The tournaments are supposed to be exciting once they hit playoffs and the stories from the year are supposed to move on with them to the playoffs to create excitement and hype. Instead because of how similar all the tournaments were I ended up just tuning in whenever Liquid was playing. Honestly I couldn't tell you what league I was watching half the time.

Leagues are awesome, there is no doubt about that. But when there are 4 of them going on at once with all of them featuring similar teams I think there needs to be a step back.

Off the top of my head I can think of one way to make it better, though it may not be popular.

Smaller Leagues = Better Leagues.

The Defense started December 4th. That was 5 months of Dota and the total prizepool for this investment was $20,000. Split between 4 of the 32 teams in the league.

Each player of Virtus Pro who won the league was payed no more than $2,000 for 5 months of work.

I want you to just think about that for one second and really let that sink in.

They spent 5 months playing games to make $2,000.

If someone wants to come in here and tell me that is a good thing, I'd love to hear why they think that exactly. Because to me this makes no sense. It's backwards in so many ways I don't know where to begin.

28 of the 32 teams made nothing for 5 months of work.

The winning team got payed not even half of what I make at my full time job over 5 months.

I am going to end part 1 on that for now, but I will hopefully do a Part 2 sometime soon. Part 2 will include what I think has to change as well as some examples of leagues and tournaments that have it right (from all Esports, not just Dota 2).

I hope you guys enjoyed, if you want to check out any of my casting or streaming I am listed here on Team Liquid.

I am on twitch: twitch.tv/loupinconnu
Also on Youtube: loupinconnu

Please feel free to share your thoughts on this 'rant' as well. I'd love to hear feedback on my thoughts.

LiquidDota Staff"LeLoup is a great name pls undo." -Liquid`Nazgul
Solarsail
Profile Joined July 2012
United Kingdom538 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 00:18:35
April 04 2013 00:11 GMT
#2
Prize money is not paying the living costs of any progamer. It's too unreliable and not enough. Team salary or room&board is.

The $1.6m isn't even close to the actual investment by Blizzard here. The real investment is paying for the studios, casters, streams, planes, hotels, equipment, and event staff for all the WCS-related events.

Player livings are still being paid by team sponsors under this system. Blizzard's investment allows more consistent exposure for these sponsors which will benefit players. That is the source of the joy from everyone in the scene - that all this infrastructure is guaranteed to exist for the next year or more.

Similarly with Riot, the key investment by them is in the infrastructure, not the prize money or even salaries.

The STABILITY is essential to money and players sticking around. Maybe you pay for that by losing independence, but you're missing the huge positives that brings.

Making a "living" implies a long-term thing. Your perspective is too much of the entitled viewer: you want a cool scene with cool stories and all this volatility. As a caster or progamer, you should be thinking: can I do this as a job for five years? Will this game even hold competitions in five years? And Riot or Blizzard doing this makes that much more likely.

With one-off events announced weeks before and that may not even happen, you get no security as a player or caster at all. What if IPL suddenly folds and you lose the only event your team has been training for and booked up for? How will you replace that exposure? And Riot steps in to hold a replacement tournament for exactly that reason. Because people need to live off this game, not just have five minutes of fame at a one-off weekend tournament.
Everyone left over is a member of the OP race and you have to figure out which one of them is the least OP. - CosmicSpiral
Jinxed
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States6450 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 00:29:13
April 04 2013 00:25 GMT
#3
On April 04 2013 09:11 Solarsail wrote:
Prize money is not paying the living costs of any progamer. It's too unreliable and not enough. Team salary or room&board is.

The $1.6m isn't even close to the actual investment by Blizzard here. The real investment is paying for the studios, casters, streams, planes, hotels, equipment, and event staff for all the WCS-related events.

Player livings are still being paid by team sponsors under this system. Blizzard's investment allows more consistent exposure for these sponsors which will benefit players. That is the source of the joy from everyone in the scene - that all this infrastructure is guaranteed to exist for the next year or more.

Similarly with Riot, the key investment by them is in the infrastructure, not the prize money or even salaries.

The STABILITY is essential to money and players sticking around. Maybe you pay for that by losing independence, but you're missing the huge positives that brings.

Making a "living" implies a long-term thing. Your perspective is too much of the entitled viewer: you want a cool scene with cool stories and all this volatility. As a caster or progamer, you should be thinking: can I do this as a job for five years? Will this game even hold competitions in five years? And Riot or Blizzard doing this makes that much more likely.

With one-off events announced weeks before and that may not even happen, you get no security as a player or caster at all. What if IPL suddenly folds and you lose the only event your team has been training for and booked up for? How will you replace that exposure? And Riot steps in to hold a replacement tournament for exactly that reason. Because people need to live off this game, not just have five minutes of fame at a one-off weekend tournament.


I realize that I went off topic a lot during this. Sorry about how confusing it is, I understand it is just how my mind works on occasion.

I agree though and see what you mean. I specifically didn't mention the prize money for Blizzard because I understood that (me mentioning it at the end was me in the middle of a rant and losing focus, probably should edit these things TBH). That's why I fully support Blizzard and applaud what they have done. I can honestly say I can't wait to see what comes of this.

I don't have enough info to comment on Riot's, just can only speak from feelings about it and the little I do know about it.

That stability though is the issue and right now I don't feel like Dota can say that they can do this long term, and I think that is really what I was trying to get at. There isn't anything that makes me feel like these 'big' leagues make people and teams stand out enough, and everything feels pretty much the same at the top and constantly in flux below it.

Simply put, I think that having large leagues that last multiple months happening at the same time is a bad thing when they all involve the same teams and that more diversity is needed to stabilize the scene. I'm not asking for more one off events, but less events that are the same as everything else that is out there. Events that bring something different to the table and actually improve the scene (think NASL, the Original IPL, events that were not like the other ones being run at the time and actively tried to do something different than their counterparts in order to make a real name for themselves).

Though I do still hold a few concerns when it comes to direct developer involvement with Esports, but I don't want to jump to anything before we see how this works out for Blizzard.
LiquidDota Staff"LeLoup is a great name pls undo." -Liquid`Nazgul
Solarsail
Profile Joined July 2012
United Kingdom538 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 00:39:41
April 04 2013 00:34 GMT
#4
Since you only want to talk about Dota that should be in the title.

The scene will survive as long as new players keep entering. As we saw with SC2, even just standing still will mean an exodus of leagues and sponsors, since they are built on venture capital and speculation rather than in the moment good financials.

So, how long do you think Dota 2 will grow for?

And I still don't understand your perspective. Are you speaking as a viewer, as an upcoming caster, or from a business viewpoint? If as a viewer, then... if you're watching leagues and paying for Dota 2 items, you're already satisfied by Valve/sponsor's definitions and they need do nothing more to serve you. I'd like GSL to be played on a moonbase but I wouldn't pay any more to see it done.

Understand that "the scene" is actually something NO ONE cares about except the viewer. Devs, leagues, teams, sponsors, players and so on have variously different economic reasons to participate. They can pretend that they "believe in esports" but they actually believe in money, unless they are irrational.

Valve and sponsors should focus on getting more people watching and playing Dota 2 with any resources they have.
Everyone left over is a member of the OP race and you have to figure out which one of them is the least OP. - CosmicSpiral
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