Just to start out: She´s not terrible by any means, better then the average player at just about every game and she is a "true gamer" and she's been playing games for over ten years, pretty hardcore at that.
However a normal night of dota(game of choice atm) with my girlfriend goes like this: Playing with my girlfriend and some other friends, i normally lane with her. We get ganked, she's bane and instead of sleeping she nukes and goes oom so we both die while she or both could have lived. I tell her to sleep instead, we get ganked again, as she runs away from a slark(not gonna get away) i keep telling her to just sleep him, over and over again. She finally does it and lives. Now she gets pissed because i "keep telling her what to do" and i get pissed because without my help a lot of times she would die. We then passive aggressively argue on voice making it awkward as fuck for our friends whom we are playing with. This happens like atleast once a night.
Dunno how we are supposed to play together. She cannot take criticism at all in any kind of way and blames me for deaths even when im not in the lane with her "you should have ganked" "you should have been here why did u tp mid" and so on. Then i´m equally bad as i cannot let anything she does/says that´s wrong go. Like i correct her all the time when she says stuff and i don't even know why. Like shit that doesn´t even matter, which heroes we are getting ganked by, the chain of events leading to ours/someones death and other useless crap.
This happens in like every kind of game we play, i shit you not some of our biggest arguments came after WoW arena games we played together. The thing is i am generally (somtimes a lot) better then her at just about every game we play. Hence i never give in when there´s an argument since i feel that i am the better player hence normally i am right. On top of this she never admits it when she does a good job with something and i cannot help thinking that´s my fault since i keep correcting her constantly, i have to give her credit for about 45min if she does something good and maybe then she will accept it as a good play and not "something everyone does/can do"
So anyone with the same situation that makes it work? We do have fun playing together, but an equal amount of time is spent arguing over stupid useless crap.
Don't play with her. Simple as that, or play a lane that doesn't have to deal with her as much. Both of you are being ridiculous about this lol. I don't the game you are playing is the right one for you since you guys can't seem to cooperate well. Maybe a game change? I don't really know, but I think a MOBA might be the wrong choice. EDIT: You being the better player does not make you not compromising a good thing btw.
On April 02 2013 06:26 docvoc wrote: Don't play with her. Simple as that, or play a lane that doesn't have to deal with her as much. Both of you are being ridiculous about this lol. I don't the game you are playing is the right one for you since you guys can't seem to cooperate well. Maybe a game change? I don't really know, but I think a MOBA might be the wrong choice. EDIT: You being the better player does not make you not compromising a good thing btw.
Yeah this is the obvious solution i´m ofcourse trying to avoid. And yes we suck at cooperating and i suck at "teaching" whenever i am better. Even if i´m right about something in the game my apporach to argumenting etc is pretty bad i know that. I need to let shit go.
Yeah don't play those incredibly frustrating PVP-centric games, like MOBAs or arenas.
Instead get something good cooperatively on the go? Maybe just some generic PVE MMORPG, or a hack and slash like Titan Quest, Action RPGs basically.
I'd suggest World of Tanks, because instead of being pissed off at each other you'll instead be pissed off at the other 13 people on your team, who will be utterly useless. So you'll have a shared target for your frustration
Instead of being critical when she makes a mistake, why don't you playfully tease her instead? When she does a good job on something, instead of directly giving her credit on it, show pride to other people that your gf is doing amazing. Even if you are playing a competitive game, try to have as much fun as possible.
Have her play Skeleton King and you play someone with a heal. When you play with her don't play to win, play to have fun and share an experience-- like if you were teaching your kid brother how to play hockey, if he fucks up and slips don't be like "WOW JOHN YOU'RE SUCH AN ASSHAT YOU NEEDED TO SHOOT THAT PUCK" instead you'd be like "hey man you doing okay?" so yeah be like that
Stop telling her what to do. Wait to see what she does then say stuff like "next time they come for us like that if you use nightmare on one we might be able to get away." then follow up with something you should do if it happens. 9/10 times when someone takes poorly you telling them what to do, its your fault for telling them in a shitty way. 1/10 times they are just a horrible person. but this is your gf, so i assume she's a good person.
I think you need to learn to deal with the fact that your girlfriend is worse than you & stop trying to correct/teach her. It is not up to you, it is up to her to improve. Either she is willing to do so & asks for your advice, or she is not and you should shut up or stop playing.
I would recommend just not playing with her. I played WoW with my gf (at the time) years and years ago, and everything was fine until I tried teaching her how to play in arenas. We would lose because she was bad, she hated losing, would get mad, I'd try to help her get better, we'd lose again, and she'd get more enraged.
I just gave up, and stuck to casual gaming with her (not that WoW is "competitive").
I found that playing a game with your gf, that can be frustrating at times (like dota), is a bad idea.
Cause then it could spark out stress issues (unrelated to the game) between you guys. Inb4 argues, and fights, then it turns out that you're stuck on the phone with her till 5am cause shes crying about god-knows-what. When all you wanted to do, in the first place, was teach her how to play Crystal Maiden.
On April 02 2013 08:00 Emnjay808 wrote: I found that playing a game with your gf, that can be frustrating at times (like dota), is a bad idea.
Cause then it could spark out stress issues (unrelated to the game) between you guys. Inb4 argues, and fights, then it turns out that you're stuck on the phone with her till 5am cause shes crying about god-knows-what. When all you wanted to do, in the first place, was teach her how to play Crystal Maiden.
Just speaking from experience ofc... =/
Yes! I know that feel bro.
DOTA-type games are really not well-suited for people of different skill levels to play together. It can work if one takes on a mentor-like role while the other is a student, but this can often be complicated in a relationship if it is not very clear that this is what you are doing.
I feel like even SC2 can be a better cooperative experience with people of different skill levels. Especially if you play 4v4 or monobattles where it isn't that serious to begin with.
I had a similar sort of friend in league. Cool dude, terrible lol player. We should get into arguments about what to do and how to play, arguments, which by virtue of our respective ranks, I felt right basically just saying I was right.
So I decided my friendship was more important than a game. So now, I don't play to win when we play. I just go with the flow, try to make plays and set up plays, but I chill and let it go when he doesn't file up or respond correctly. Our chemistry is getting better, and he is improving, and I never tell him what to do or try to improve him.
my advice is to take a chill pill, remember that she is more important than any game could be. Be happy that she plays with you, and give no mind to try and improve her play. She is always right. I should do that much at least for a gf that would play dota with me.
time, she'll improve, and hopefully seek your advice without you having to pound her over the head with it
The best solution I've found is to confront a person on these issues outside of the moment. Don't tell her in the same game she made the mistake. Casually provoke the discussion. If she deflects or dismisses it, then try to get her to open up on why she's so hostile towards your criticism. If you can't get any further then that, then I have no idea what you could do other than play around her pride.
On April 02 2013 06:58 Jinsho wrote: I think you need to learn to deal with the fact that your girlfriend is worse than you & stop trying to correct/teach her. It is not up to you, it is up to her to improve. Either she is willing to do so & asks for your advice, or she is not and you should shut up or stop playing.
Normal, rational people don't lash at out at trusted friends because of criticism. If the frustration of the game is gone and they still react with hostility towards criticism then they either thoroughly believe there is no capacity for them to be incorrect, or more likely they're insecure. It's just not worth playing with such close-mindedness if they're going to take the game so seriously that they'd get upset because you're forced to "suggest" better alternatives.
Like, the fact she is arguing and not just casually dismissing it means she has some level of pride. I know because I do it sometimes too. But I don't (or I'm actively aware and try not to) force my friends into a position where they have to be nice to me for me to be playable. That's a terrible friendship. Instead, I acknowledge this and maintain an active awareness of my faults, and that I don't know everything like I sometimes think I do. Most often I know what my mistake was, they usually point it out in a position where they see it more clearly, and if I'm tilted at the time I dismiss it but I usually just tell them outright I'm on tilt and I'll get over it. I'm not so self-absorbed to actually believe I'm always right or that my friends don't mean well.
Just both work at not being argumentative / always end up blaming each other. Works wonders for happier gaming, although it's gonna be a work in progress. At any given game, someone's gonna be better than the other, and the other person isn't gonna magically instantly fix all their deficiencies in that area. So just work around it and don't be too pressure-ful? Hard to avoid something by competitive nature but just work through it.
Also some arguments are just not winnable and should be dropped.
Is what I do with my friend (not gf, but she is a girl). Makes for really fun 2v2 in SC2 xD
Some women like to figure things out for themselves. In that case give her time to process it and if she gets tired of dying/ losing in that matter maybe she'll be more open to asking you questions of handling such situations. Try to be playful in how you encourage her play. Don't pressure her.
Don't play games together. It's obvious you guys have other issues you should be talking about but instead games seem to be a catalyst at best and a scapegoat at worst.
On April 02 2013 06:42 PrinceXizor wrote: Stop telling her what to do. Wait to see what she does then say stuff like "next time they come for us like that if you use nightmare on one we might be able to get away." then follow up with something you should do if it happens. 9/10 times when someone takes poorly you telling them what to do, its your fault for telling them in a shitty way. 1/10 times they are just a horrible person. but this is your gf, so i assume she's a good person.
QFT.
Giving advice is a hard thing to do. I've played a lot of 2v2s with my friends in sc2, and me being masters while they top out in gold or platinum, I've had to learn the art of giving advice without telling them what to do. Usually I don't say anything unless either they ask or there is a glaring problem with their play. Alternatively I'd say something like I'm going for x strategy, you should do y or z to compliment it.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the person often knows what to do, but isn't able to act on it consistently. This situation is the worst spot to give advice in, because no one needs to be reminded of how s/he just failed. This is a situation where I'd say nothing unless I'm asked what to do. It sounds like this was the case when your girlfriend was running from slardar. She probably knew that sleeping him was the right thing to do, but wasn't acting on it because she was focused on getting away.
I'd suggest just establishing with your girlfriend that you would be happy to help whenever she needs it and won't judge her for any lack of knowledge. Don't bash her for making mistakes or tell her what to do; stay positive and only answer her questions and it will be much easier to have fun.
i suggest stop playing with her, or move to a different lane. when playing with a partner of some sort, communication is key to success, but for the relationship and the game. if shes getting pissed at you, then shut your mouth and let her do it. if she blames you for not helping, then its clear shes just too selfish and you need to stop playing with her.
On April 02 2013 06:22 unkkz wrote: Just to start out: She´s not terrible by any means, better then the average player at just about every game and she is a "true gamer" and she's been playing games for over ten years, pretty hardcore at that.
However a normal night of dota(game of choice atm) with my girlfriend goes like this: Playing with my girlfriend and some other friends, i normally lane with her. We get ganked, she's bane and instead of sleeping she nukes and goes oom so we both die while she or both could have lived. I tell her to sleep instead, we get ganked again, as she runs away from a slark(not gonna get away) i keep telling her to just sleep him, over and over again. She finally does it and lives. Now she gets pissed because i "keep telling her what to do" and i get pissed because without my help a lot of times she would die. We then passive aggressively argue on voice making it awkward as fuck for our friends whom we are playing with. This happens like atleast once a night.
Dunno how we are supposed to play together. She cannot take criticism at all in any kind of way and blames me for deaths even when im not in the lane with her "you should have ganked" "you should have been here why did u tp mid" and so on. Then i´m equally bad as i cannot let anything she does/says that´s wrong go. Like i correct her all the time when she says stuff and i don't even know why. Like shit that doesn´t even matter, which heroes we are getting ganked by, the chain of events leading to ours/someones death and other useless crap.
This happens in like every kind of game we play, i shit you not some of our biggest arguments came after WoW arena games we played together. The thing is i am generally (somtimes a lot) better then her at just about every game we play. Hence i never give in when there´s an argument since i feel that i am the better player hence normally i am right. On top of this she never admits it when she does a good job with something and i cannot help thinking that´s my fault since i keep correcting her constantly, i have to give her credit for about 45min if she does something good and maybe then she will accept it as a good play and not "something everyone does/can do"
So anyone with the same situation that makes it work? We do have fun playing together, but an equal amount of time is spent arguing over stupid useless crap.
Lol. The best thing i think is to let her figure out the game herself and play it the way she wants. Even if she dies in-game, she has to learn for herself. I have same problem, i play with my gf and i sometimes overdo it and say too much lol. I have a lot more experience playing games than my gf and she gets pissed if i try to help her or she perceives it as me ordering her around lol. Although tiny advice is really good!
It's tough, just gotta let go, everyone likes to play the game their own way, obv there are "best" ways in some games to do things, but just try to overlook it and have fun together. Who cares if you kill that monster with 20 more flameblasts or whatever than was perfectly efficient lol
Considering we play SC, we're prob too used to playing a game to "get good" and "do it the most efficient, optimal way" which is not the best way to HAVE FUN :D
Otherwise, we all know women are impossible, true fact :D HEUHEUHEU
On April 02 2013 10:52 moopie wrote: Don't play competitive games with her. If you guys want to play together, play co-op, non-pvp games (offline or online).
Indeed, it sounds like neither of you really enjoy the others company in such an environment and I wouldn't really say either of you are to blame in particular. you're obviously better at the game than her and it's not fun for her to get pushed so hard (even though you're right I'm sure) and it's not fun for you to babysit her. You both play the game at different levels and that's fine, don't try to chalk it up as something it's not.
You know she gets upset just because she's frustrated. You tell her to do these things and I'm sure she believes you're giving her good advice as you're a better player, but it's easier said than done, and it's difficult to follow all the advice you give her in the heat of the moment. I don't blame her, we're all human.
It's like me watching your SC2 play over your shoulder and going "why did you attack here? you know it was a bad idea. Why didn't you lift your CC to save it? Dude your macro sucks, I told you to watch your money. You need to harass more, you're way too passive." etc. And you know you're messing up when you look at the aftermath, but it doesn't help if I sit there and badger you.
A few said it already. Switch games. I think the best games that you would be able to play with her would have to be co-op against ai. Forget vs people as that sounds too frustrating for you two to handle. Find a game where you two can partner up and work together. Or just a game without teams like minecraft or something. Either switch games, or don't play with her.
I would never play Dota with someone if I knew they weren't that good at it, friend or girlfriend. I know I'd rage pretty hard if they make basic errors.
Definitely do a co-op game that isn't too demanding like action RPGs or an easy fps.
Bane is geared towards intermediate to advance ARTS gamers. Since she is a beginner, she should play Lich, Venomancer or SK (like someone previously mentioned). These types of heroes will help in fights and laning without any knowledge of them knowing so. Lich gives less exp and keeps the creep wave near your tower simply by eating them creeps. Tell her to place wards everywhere when she plays Veno. As for SK, well, simply by dying once he's helped in teamfights by tanking, just tell her to keep an eye on her mana, especially early game. Thought you would have explained all of this to her beforehand.
i was in the same situation, maybe worse. things went flying in our house after a couple of WoW arena games. lol.
i caught flack for the same things you did, telling her what to do during the game confused her more than helped her, and she'd blame me for losses.
i changed the way i approached the advice in a couple of simple ways, turned out easy to fix a) i stopped being critical whilst in the game, wait til after b) i started criticising my own play and asking for her opinion on my play before i talked about hers (even though she was over 500 mmr lower than me in arena with the same partners)
don't know about your gf, but once mine felt valuable as part of my team she took up the learning attitude much easier, and after seeing my self-criticism for a few months she started thinking about her own play a whole lot more and started doing the same thing.
i was stuck at 1900 WoW arena rating with her during our months of arguments. once i changed up the way i gave her advice, we started the climb to our peak together at just over 2600 rating.
in sc2 we're currently master together in 2v2, and she was just promoted to master in 1v1. i'd like to think that's due to the self-analytical skills she's built up in the past few years with me
1. Work on your own game before offering any criticism of hers. If your post-fight analysis is always "whoa you should have X, we would have won!" it's not gonna be pretty. That approach puts her on the defensive. Even if you're right, it doesn't make her feel any better. If, instead, you analyze your own play honestly and just focus on the things that you could have done better, she may follow suit and look at her own play. Go ahead and play in tryhard mode, but in addition to trying to read your opponents, consider that your ally may make sub-optimal plays. Set up plays based on her actions, and tell her what you're planning. It's probably easier for you to execute something like, "I'll engage if you throw out a stun" than it is for her to read your mind for the right play at any given time.
2. Laugh it off. A positive attitude makes things more fun for everyone, even if you lose.
Don't give advice in the heat of the moment, wait till after that game. Preferably if she asks what she's doing wrong/can improve. Imagine how you're going to react if someone starts yelling advice at you during play.
edit: also set an example like the guy above said. Be critical of your own play and say what you could've done better. If you are the stronger player than her she'll look at that behaviour and emulate it. All your yelling advice achieves is make her feel likes it's 100% her fault and it's not surprising she'll reject that level of blame.
Playing games with your girlfriend is one of the most difficult things to do without getting a discussion, and I am saying this with a laugh. At first I tried to coöperate without even saying what she should do better, but just by playing and going in the level together, but still it ended up in a discussion.
We actually had a discussion about the fact we had a constant discussion going on when playing games, ending up never having any discussion anymore after solving the issue. Wow I am actually shocked of my own post :D
I'd never play a game seriously with my girlfriend, for the sake of avoiding arguments and annoyance. Especially games in the MOBA genre which imho tends to call for more anger than say SC2 2v2
On April 02 2013 21:14 Aelonius wrote: I'd never play a game seriously with my girlfriend, for the sake of avoiding arguments and annoyance. Especially games in the MOBA genre which imho tends to call for more anger than say SC2 2v2
Maybe it's just us taking the game to serious sometimes after thinking of my own posts. Not sure if I may say this without getting attacked. We probably got this feeling to win every single game, and get annoyed when she repeatedly makes a mistake, but maybe we can also laugh about it? Haha.
2. Laugh it off. A positive attitude makes things more fun for everyone, even if you lose.
This. I have taught many people DOTA2 and sc2, (girlfriiend and just female friends), and the best way to have a good time is to not taking everything so seriously. In my opinion, DOTA is even easier to teach then sc2, as you are playing with them, and you are both working together for the same objective.
First off I make a new account, and choose lowskill, so the games are relatively easy. Then i usually play a support hero, buy wards and couriers for her, and let her choose whatever hero she wants. It honestly doesn't matter, as i fully expect to lose the game. And we just have fun from there, tease her if she makes a dumb mistake, laugh when you both die to a stupid gank. Just have fun! If she ever gets a kill, tell her good job and how well she is learning the game. Just praise her a lot and make her feel like shes doing great.
I personally think she should play heroes you get a lot of kills when you first start out, as that is more interesting and fun, as a lot of action is going on with your hero. Heroes that can get a lot of kills easily is awesome, and in my experience, heroes such as Huskar, Naix, and broodmother she had fun with. Heroes that in the lowskill pool that can easily snowball.
Eventually she will get better, and you can teach her how to play support. you can play a carry and proceed to win the game, but winning doesnt really matter. If she puts a ward in a good place, and it stops you from a gank, tell her thas a great ward, and again praise her. I emphasize, having fun is the most important thing. Don't ever get mad at her, or criticize her play. If you want to teach her a hero, play it first,and ask her to watch how you play. From there she can learn and improve by herself, if she has the motivation too. If she doesn't, well the game probably isn't for her then.
If you aren't having fun, and if she doesn't want to get better, then move on. But personally I find play with a partner to me one of the most fun things to do in the Dota world, and seeing her improve just makes us both happy.
2. Laugh it off. A positive attitude makes things more fun for everyone, even if you lose.
This. I have taught many people DOTA2 and sc2, (girlfriiend and just female friends), and the best way to have a good time is to not taking everything so seriously. In my opinion, DOTA is even easier to teach then sc2, as you are playing with them, and you are both working together for the same objective.
First off I make a new account, and choose lowskill, so the games are relatively easy. Then i usually play a support hero, buy wards and couriers for her, and let her choose whatever hero she wants. It honestly doesn't matter, as i fully expect to lose the game. And we just have fun from there, tease her if she makes a dumb mistake, laugh when you both die to a stupid gank. Just have fun! If she ever gets a kill, tell her good job and how well she is learning the game. Just praise her a lot and make her feel like shes doing great.
I personally think she should play heroes you get a lot of kills when you first start out, as that is more interesting and fun, as a lot of action is going on with your hero. Heroes that can get a lot of kills easily is awesome, and in my experience, heroes such as Huskar, Naix, and broodmother she had fun with. Heroes that in the lowskill pool that can easily snowball.
Eventually she will get better, and you can teach her how to play support. you can play a carry and proceed to win the game, but winning doesnt really matter. If she puts a ward in a good place, and it stops you from a gank, tell her thas a great ward, and again praise her. I emphasize, having fun is the most important thing. Don't ever get mad at her, or criticize her play. If you want to teach her a hero, play it first,and ask her to watch how you play. From there she can learn and improve by herself, if she has the motivation too. If she doesn't, well the game probably isn't for her then.
If you aren't having fun, and if she doesn't want to get better, then move on. But personally I find play with a partner to me one of the most fun things to do in the Dota world, and seeing her improve just makes us both happy.
It's the same as dealing with customers. Doesn't matter how stupidly you find it that they don't understand certain things, keep positive.
Co-op games. Lara Croft and the Guardian of the Light is what the bf and I just finished and it's pretty good. Portal 2 as well. I'd say maaaaybe moving onto the MOBA genre etc. only when you've been doing really well with co-op games and not having arguments and fights.
Honestly, I sound kinda like your gf; I like to figure shit out for myself and get sort of annoyed when someone is telling me how to do things. We would never play a MOBA or WoW arena together (we did a lot of WoW PVE though and that went well), since it'd probably go the way your games are going with your gf. Not playing together doesn't sound like a good solution, as gaming can be a great way to bond and have fun together. Good luck, and hope it works out.
Ok, just a quick run down of tips from someone who has been doing this for years:
1: Hardcore games like Dota are bad if you both are not able to play the game solo. You need to work up to stuff like this.
2: Do not tell your girl friend to do something over and over. Ever. In fact, never tell her what to do in the game. Provide her with suggestions after death or when something is about to happen(ok, when he comes in, hit him with sleep). Failure is part of learning. If you don't want to fail with her, don't play with her.
3: Do not play with friends unless you know they are going to accept losing with style and flare. Its unfair to them and unfair to your girlfriend, who will feel bad about making them lose. Everyone needs to be on the same page when they go into a game.
Those are my three tips. Games like LoL and Dota are super mean and can not be a lot of fun for couples to play unless you both have around the same skill level. But you girlfriend is not your friend and not some kid on the internet. You can't get mad because you lost or she messed up. Fighting over that is beyond dumb and if you can't hold it in, I would recommend you don't play.
EPT
We do have fun playing together, but an equal amount of time is spent arguing over stupid useless crap.
