• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:27
CEST 00:27
KST 07:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed12Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll4Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Who will win EWC 2025? Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL20 Preliminary Maps Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Starcraft in widescreen
Tourneys
Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Segway man no more. Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 794 users

Life "Problems" - Decisions/Opportunities

Blogs > cLAN.Anax
Post a Reply
cLAN.Anax
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States2847 Posts
February 04 2013 21:16 GMT
#1
Y’all should know by now that I participate in fencing at college. We meet three times a week in the evenings. Most of our meetings end when the Swing Dance Club begins. One of the freshman fencers (happens to be “Ms. Burn” if you remember her from an earlier blog) is an avid dancer and has invited me since last week to at least give it a shot. “Why?” I asked her, and she replied that every other guy friend (not “boyfriend,” mind you) she’s asked and who’s accepted to try it has, apparently, instantly loved it.

I’ve refused thus far. I cannot remember a time where I was interested in trying swing dancing. It’s not due to physical exhaustion beforehand; our club is more of a casual get-together with a splash of fencing and less of an actual, hardcore fencing team workout, lol. But rather, it simply never interested me. I glance at the antics and stunts that the dancers pull off as I’m putting away our equipment, and I am genuinely disinterested. I shrug, think to myself, “It’s not for me/my thing,” and move on.

However, I’ve been reconsidering. If you’ll recall this blog, I am attempting to engage in as many activities that I can do only now while at college before I graduate and slave away (if you consider earning a nice paycheck with an exemplary company in beautiful scenery and fantastic weather year-round “slavery,” lol) at the mine. I’m afraid that this may be one such experience, that I shouldn’t miss out on this opportunity before it passes me by. “Should be an easy choice, then, Anax,” you may undoubtedly conclude. “Just go f-ing do it, bro.”

And yet, that is what stops me. I have no such desire to try swing dancing out. There are certain things that I wish to try or complete before graduating, but that is not one of them. I consider myself in the spot of one of the dancers, and the image not only puts me off, it even frightens me. (the reason it “scares” me, per se, is a long, long, complicated tale that I’ll try not to get into for this blog; maybe another time) Again, I give it some thought, but I refuse in the end.

“But Anax! You got asked by an attractive girl to go dancing with you! And you said ‘no’?! You crazy, bro?! That’s, like, a golden opportunity, man! You should’ve definitely said ‘yes’!!”

That is another issue for me. I would consider myself a gullible person, but for certain, select things, peer pressure has the opposite effect on me. When I am socially pressured to do something, especially from others that I do not trust as much as my friends and family, I am less likely to do them. Dancing, particularly with a partner, and even in an informal setting such as a club meeting, has always been one of them. I will proudly play a flute solo in front of hundreds, but I will flat-out deny any chance of dancing in the presence of a dozen.

Naturally, dancing is not the only thing that I refuse to partake in. In high school, I actively avoided romance like the plague; I still have refrained from making a Facebook account for myself; and very recently in college, I’ve had to deal with innumerable offers of alcoholic beverages (I refuse to drink). It’s difficult for me to convince others of my personal choices when there’s not really any objective logic substantiating them, and I’m relegated to being a broken record by saying, “It’s just my choice. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯” over and over again. I can’t tell you how frustrating it is to tell friends that I don’t care if they drink, but that I have no personal desire to try it even a little, and yet they continue to press me as if their persistence will win out in the end.

Are their arguments for suggesting that I try whatever logical? Yes. They are. “Just take a sip; you can always say ‘no’ afterwards,” or, “What if you miss this opportunity and regret it for the rest of your life?” or, “I really want you to try this because I enjoy it and I think you would enjoy it too.” Those really frustrate me. Because they are logically-based, while mine are based on my own selfish desires and choices.

And these are my close friends and family that are telling me these things, too. These are people that I trust a whole lot, and their words weigh heavily on my gullible mind. These are people who genuinely want the best for me, who do so out of no ill intent but offer their experience honestly so that it might benefit me in some way. I feel it is something I “ought” to do so that I don’t “let them down,” I guess.

On top of this, these quandaries have no “right” or “wrong” answer. There is no objective correct or incorrect choice to this; perhaps it is a “better” or “worse” scenario, but ultimately, I do not believe either choice in any of these things is moral or immoral. So that means I pretty much have to make a decision based on more than just logic, and I really hate the way that sounds, haha.

*sigh*


Question of the Blog: Have you ever run into a situation like this before? What did you do in the end? What would you recommend for me given my position?


**
┬─┬___(ツ)_/¯ 彡┻━┻ I am the 4%. "I cant believe i saw ANAL backwards before i saw the word LAN." - Capped
GERMasta
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany212 Posts
February 04 2013 23:03 GMT
#2
Are their arguments for suggesting that I try whatever logical? Yes. They are. “Just take a sip; you can always say ‘no’ afterwards,” or, “What if you miss this opportunity and regret it for the rest of your life?” or, “I really want you to try this because I enjoy it and I think you would enjoy it too.” Those really frustrate me. Because they are logically-based, while mine are based on my own selfish desires and choices.
Are they now? The first argument doesn't work - you can't unsip once you've taken a sip. Imagine asking a vegetarian to just 'take a bite of this meat, you can always say no afterwards!' I'll get back to that in a second. The second one is also not very convincing: What if you miss this opportunity to stay sober and regret it for the rest of your life? Millions of people have done terrible things that they regret under the influence of alcohol, and life is full of opportunity - some of which might become closed off to you once you're under the influence. The third one is a bit better though, but it assumes one thing: shared values.

Their choices are based on certain values, like, say the value that they attach to the pleasure of drinking (or the lack of valuing not-drinking), and yours are too. Consider the vegetarian example again: My relatives really like the taste of meat and they don't have a value that interfers with them eating meat, so they decide to eat meat and be merry. They want me to be merry too, so why not have me eat meat as well? But if I'm a vegetarian, another value overrides whatever pleasure I might get from eating meat (unless I'm a vulgar hedonist). So the first step is to find out what values motivate or stop you from doing certain things and examine them closely (that is, if you haven't consciously adopted those values to begin with, as is the case with, say, vegetarians.)

Whether there are objective values or not is something I'm still uncertain about, so axiologically figuring out who's got the better value system is not really an option for me at the moment. However, why not adopt a skeptic position and say that yes, one of us might be right, but we can't say who by mere use of abstract argumentation? After all, values are supposed to lived out, so why not judge them experimentally by the kinds of lives that they lead to? That way both of us can go on their merry ways (saves one from pesky pseudo-arguments) and in the end the different kinds of lives will speak for themselves as to their worth and merit (in terms of well-being as well as happiness).
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
February 05 2013 01:24 GMT
#3
I'm definitely not the person to be saying something like this, but do stupid things that have no objective answer for doing them, just to do them. YOLO it up in college, I'm being serious. There is no reason to do what you are doing right now, do something for the experience, even if you can't think of a reason for it outright, the experience will make it worth it. If the experience does not, then don't do it again. That pretty girl, the experience is worth it. In reality, the just take a sip mantra isn't a bad one at your age. Now, if something is just outright fucking stupid in your opinion, i.e. hard drugs, something that could cause you serious trauma, etc. don't do it; if something is harmless if it goes wrong and can only end harmlessly at worst, just do it. Make a facebook, tell the girl you reconsidered and would love to do that sometime else but you were busy.
User was warned for too many mimes.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18825 Posts
February 05 2013 02:01 GMT
#4
As someone with a fair amount of experience in dance (and I'm not afraid to admit it ), I can say that the vast majority of males who dislike dancing suffer from some degree of self-consciousness, whether that be an over-concern with how they appear in the eyes of others or a lack of familiarity with rhythmic motion. In either case, simply saying "fuck it" and flopping around like an idiot is by far the best way to "break into" dancing, so to speak, and that's if you are doing it without a partner. I'll tell you what, I may be have been a really fat obnoxious kid in high school, but I said "fuck it" and ended up dancing with and getting to know quite a few girls who were WAY out of my league, both at parties and in theatre/show choir. Granted, only one of them ever touched my penis, but considering the quality of girls I had dated previous (not a pretty sight), I'd say that experience proved incredibly worthwhile.
Now, if you are looking for some sort of reasoning in regards to why one ought to dance, well that's a tougher question, though in situations like this I can't help but fall back on the very simple "why not?". If you can learn to enjoy being put in uncomfortable situations, going swing dancing included, life tends to be a lot more enjoyable.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
cLAN.Anax
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States2847 Posts
February 05 2013 04:38 GMT
#5
On February 05 2013 08:03 Sauwelios wrote:
Show nested quote +
Are their arguments for suggesting that I try whatever logical? Yes. They are. “Just take a sip; you can always say ‘no’ afterwards,” or, “What if you miss this opportunity and regret it for the rest of your life?” or, “I really want you to try this because I enjoy it and I think you would enjoy it too.” Those really frustrate me. Because they are logically-based, while mine are based on my own selfish desires and choices.
Are they now? The first argument doesn't work - you can't unsip once you've taken a sip. Imagine asking a vegetarian to just 'take a bite of this meat, you can always say no afterwards!' I'll get back to that in a second. The second one is also not very convincing: What if you miss this opportunity to stay sober and regret it for the rest of your life? Millions of people have done terrible things that they regret under the influence of alcohol, and life is full of opportunity - some of which might become closed off to you once you're under the influence. The third one is a bit better though, but it assumes one thing: shared values.

Their choices are based on certain values, like, say the value that they attach to the pleasure of drinking (or the lack of valuing not-drinking), and yours are too. Consider the vegetarian example again: My relatives really like the taste of meat and they don't have a value that interfers with them eating meat, so they decide to eat meat and be merry. They want me to be merry too, so why not have me eat meat as well? But if I'm a vegetarian, another value overrides whatever pleasure I might get from eating meat (unless I'm a vulgar hedonist). So the first step is to find out what values motivate or stop you from doing certain things and examine them closely (that is, if you haven't consciously adopted those values to begin with, as is the case with, say, vegetarians.)

Whether there are objective values or not is something I'm still uncertain about, so axiologically figuring out who's got the better value system is not really an option for me at the moment. However, why not adopt a skeptic position and say that yes, one of us might be right, but we can't say who by mere use of abstract argumentation? After all, values are supposed to lived out, so why not judge them experimentally by the kinds of lives that they lead to? That way both of us can go on their merry ways (saves one from pesky pseudo-arguments) and in the end the different kinds of lives will speak for themselves as to their worth and merit (in terms of well-being as well as happiness).


"Axiologically." Huh. I've never heard of that word before. Gonna have to use it somewhere. :-D

Most of those arguments are "logical" to me because they just "make sense" in my mind. They are difficult for me to convince myself that they are wrong.

After all, values are supposed to lived out, so why not judge them experimentally by the kinds of lives that they lead to?


This makes a lot of sense to me. I value my choice to abstain from: dancing, dating, sex, alcohol, etc. Even though they seem like silly things to abstain from given another's point of view. For every ten that shake their heads at my values, there's always at least one who admires my choices; I like to think that it's worth it for their sake, like, their approval is more paramount to the others'.

Thanks, though. This was a great post.


On February 05 2013 11:01 farvacola wrote:
As someone with a fair amount of experience in dance (and I'm not afraid to admit it ), I can say that the vast majority of males who dislike dancing suffer from some degree of self-consciousness, whether that be an over-concern with how they appear in the eyes of others or a lack of familiarity with rhythmic motion. In either case, simply saying "fuck it" and flopping around like an idiot is by far the best way to "break into" dancing, so to speak, and that's if you are doing it without a partner. I'll tell you what, I may be have been a really fat obnoxious kid in high school, but I said "fuck it" and ended up dancing with and getting to know quite a few girls who were WAY out of my league, both at parties and in theatre/show choir. Granted, only one of them ever touched my penis, but considering the quality of girls I had dated previous (not a pretty sight), I'd say that experience proved incredibly worthwhile.
Now, if you are looking for some sort of reasoning in regards to why one ought to dance, well that's a tougher question, though in situations like this I can't help but fall back on the very simple "why not?". If you can learn to enjoy being put in uncomfortable situations, going swing dancing included, life tends to be a lot more enjoyable.


Pretty sure it's the self-consciousness and not the rhythmic motion, lol. (I'm fully aware this is not a direct substitute, but I'm fairly decent at DDR; that's gotta count for something, surely )

You weren't aware of this before, but I'm not looking to bed a girl, or even find romance for that matter. That's not one of my goals. Dancing is a great way to exercise and socialize, but I feel I've enough substitutes for that in the forms of fencing and... well, fencing technically kills both birds with the same stone, lol. X-D But I also socialize with new folks at geological society meetings and in orchestra. I guess you could say I don't see a "need" to try out dancing because I have time-tested, viable substitutes.

Plus, the last time I (had to) dance with someone else was back in 6th grade at Cotillion. I was so frightened, I literally ran to the bathroom and cried. Eventually, I came back and did it, but I hated every second of it. Even all these years later, I'm too afraid that I haven't recovered from that.

If you can learn to enjoy being put in uncomfortable situations,...


I can't. I'm awful about this. I'll literally leave the room if an awkward sitcom or embarrassing moment in a movie is on TV. >.<'


Off-topic: + Show Spoiler +
watching Day[9]'s Funday Monday is making me feel SO much better. :-D
┬─┬___(ツ)_/¯ 彡┻━┻ I am the 4%. "I cant believe i saw ANAL backwards before i saw the word LAN." - Capped
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11h 33m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nathanias 263
Livibee 88
SC2Nice 32
StarCraft: Brood War
Aegong 106
Stormgate
NightEnD20
Dota 2
syndereN660
monkeys_forever360
NeuroSwarm76
League of Legends
Grubby4664
Dendi1049
Counter-Strike
sgares861
Stewie2K802
Foxcn336
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King71
Liquid`Ken64
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu483
Other Games
summit1g10915
FrodaN2371
shahzam1022
byalli225
C9.Mang0216
Skadoodle135
ViBE124
Pyrionflax90
Maynarde78
Trikslyr73
Sick55
ROOTCatZ8
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV64
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 103
• davetesta50
• musti20045 34
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 30
• Eskiya23 26
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22944
League of Legends
• TFBlade744
Other Games
• Scarra2840
• imaqtpie1510
• Shiphtur463
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
11h 33m
OSC
14h 33m
WardiTV European League
17h 33m
Fjant vs Babymarine
Mixu vs HiGhDrA
Gerald vs ArT
goblin vs MaNa
Jumy vs YoungYakov
Replay Cast
1d 1h
Epic.LAN
1d 13h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Epic.LAN
2 days
CSO Contender
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Esports World Cup
5 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.