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On January 08 2013 08:34 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 08:28 tehemperorer wrote:
I'm all for the research, but only under the impression that the research can help make sports, especially pro football safer without having it change in any more drastic ways than it has.
Well yeah, but there will always be a significant delay between the research of a problem and the invention of the technology that will mitigate it, and right now we're in that period. It's hard to "not do anything" once the information is out. Then again, if Goodell were serious about safety then he also wouldn't be in favor of an 18 game schedule.
Yes on first paragraph
Goodell, as far as I can tell, is interested in player safety, and so are the owners. Maybe they're in favor of player safety for the wrong reasons, but the concern is still there. They did vote to expand the "defenseless player" definition, they moved kickoffs so that less would be returned (most injuries happen on kickoffs), they broke up the wedge formation on kickoffs, added an extra slot on the roster for players unable to play due to a concussion, and although they are interested in an 18 week schedule, they do want to do it in the context of more limited off-season workouts to limit player wear-and-tear.
To me, it makes sense. As an owner, if I paid a bunch of money for a high-value player, I would want that player to be on the field as much as possible, and reduce the risk to him so that my investment doesn't go down the drain early in the season (enter another rule protecting quarterbacks... Week 2 of the 2008-2009 season, Chiefs vs Patriots, Chiefs player hits Brady below the knee)
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A lot of sports are oddly dangerous. Even in soccer you run the risk of head trauma. I do soccer practice fairly often and I refuse to do any of the exercises where one has to return the ball with your head (translates as header?), simply because I'm sensitive to these things and they give me an instant headache. I can scarcely imagine being unscathed after doing this twenty times a day for years with the higher speeds they have in professional play. And of course you can bump heads while jumping in a real game, causing concussions.
Obviously sports like boxing and American football are far worse. Top athletes have many risk factors, from common injuries, to head injuries, to heart attacks, to being damaged by steroid abuse, to getting drug addictions because all of a sudden one is rich and has access. I don't know of any available studies, but it really would not surprise me to learn that top athletes tend to die young with brain damage. I mean, my brother was injured when spectating a baseball game when he was 7, the subject scares me a bit.
I honestly think that long-term maybe it's a good idea to stop encouraging kids to join games that will kill them if played at a high level, especially football. (like, remove football as a high school / college sport)
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United States22883 Posts
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yay for engineering love <3
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Take out the shoulderpads and bring back leather helmets.
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It is really great reading all of this feedback and discussion, guys! Thank you! :D
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On January 08 2013 06:10 Pandemona wrote:
Wasn't there an episode of South Park on this? xD was quite a funny one too
Yeah of course it was sooooo funny, I really laughed a lot, I had to recommend it to everyone, in fact it was my favourite episode of all times, you know, so creative and so original.
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Football is a game where muscle-bound freakish athletes, some weighing over 300 pounds, collide into each other at full speed, and use any means to subdue their opponent with physical force.
The only safe form of tackle football is to NOT PLAY IT. No amount of PR bandages will change this.
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On January 09 2013 12:28 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Football is a game where muscle-bound freakish athletes, some weighing over 300 pounds, collide into each other at full speed, and use any means to subdue their opponent with physical force.
The only safe form of tackle football is to NOT PLAY IT. No amount of PR bandages will change this.
Very agreed in that there is no way to make tackle football completely safe. Plenty of what the NFL is trying to do to improve safety is a good thing, but as has been mentioned previously most of it is PR due to their horrible handling of safety for the previous generations of players. I hope the lawsuit that's in progress turns out well for those vets.
On the other hand, the current generation of players I have no real sympathy for because they know what they're in for. Work like the OP is doing is great as it provides the players, trainers and coaches with more information to hopefully avoid catastrophic injuries. I wish the NFL would focus more on this and less on reducing the physicality of a sport that is based in it.
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So this could hypothetically work for boxers too right? I am wondering though, once an alert is sent and you know you have been hit too hard, what do you do? Do you just take some time off? How much time do you know to take off?
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On January 10 2013 09:58 ElizarTringov wrote:
So this could hypothetically work for boxers too right? I am wondering though, once an alert is sent and you know you have been hit too hard, what do you do? Do you just take some time off? How much time do you know to take off?
Yes, it can work in any sport. We currently are working with football, hockey, lacrosse, rugby and soccer teams, but we are currently working on finding a boxing group to work with as well.
As for your other questions, there are many answers, none of which you'll probably find too satisfying. This has to do with the medical aspect of it, which is not my forte, but I will tell you what I know.
There is not a defined threshold of force for causing a concussion. Anyone who tells you differently is lying. There are just too many variables per person, situation and impact to know if one hit caused a concussion. However, it is possible to note impacts in the "dangerous" zone of force. Of course, the higher the force, the more certain it is to give you a concussion.
If you suffer an impact which causes a concussion, it is recommended you stay off of the field/court/ring until you get doctor approval to return. This usually occurs when your symptoms have subsided. Unfortunately, people often lie about these symptoms to get back in the game earlier, but this is when your brain is most vulnerable and a second impact could kill you. That is why X2 has a system for monitoring and gauging concussion symptoms (it is a series of tests, including memory tests, balance tests, etc, that are compared to your scores before the concussion).
It is a general rule of thumb to take 2 weeks off (of activity which could cause a second impact) when you suffer a concussion, but this varies greatly.
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While the thought of what this company seems to be doing seems nice, it doesn't change the fact that you're diagnosing a VERY minor percent of injuries... So to call it making sports safer, technically accurate... But how much safer, probably by less than 1% given that you're looking for concussion symptoms, therefore, the only players affected are players who suffer another massive blow after a concussion, which I'd have to guess is quite the slim number in comparison to all sporting injuries and all sporting violent contacts without injuries.
So, it's a good idea... But it touches a very specific problem which makes little impact (realistically). Maybe every little issue needs to be examined under a microscope, but the truth is... If that's the approach, sports won't become much safer than currently in our generation for sure, possibly the next.
A sure fire way to make sports safe is non-contact sports.
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(not to mention, in many sports, attempt to injure is met with little to no penalty)
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United States22883 Posts
Perhaps you don't know much about the NFL, but the rate of concussions and brain damage is alarmingly high, even among other sports. I think there's over one concussion in every American football game (this goes down to the highschool level.)
The other issue is that these can be much more debilitating. Of course things like torn achilles tendons are awful, and many professional athletes have trouble walking and moving when they're older, but nothing is as bad as brain damage and dementia.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21969181
METHODS: All concussions recorded by the High School Reporting Information Online (HS RIO) injury surveillance system during the 2009 to 2010 academic year were included. χ(2) analyses were conducted for categorical variables. Fisher exact test was used for nonparametric data. Logistic regression analyses were used when adjusting for potential confounders. Statistical significance was considered for P < .05.
RESULTS: The HS RIO recorded 1056 sport-related concussions, representing 14.6% of all injuries. Most (94.4%) concussions were assessed by athletic trainers (ATs), 58.8% by a primary care physician. Few concussions were managed by specialists. The assessment of 21.2% included computed tomography. Computerized neuropsychological testing was used for 41.2%. For 50.1%, a physician decided when to return the athlete to play; for 46.2%, the decision was made by an AT. After adjusting for potential confounders, no associations between timing of return to play and the type of provider (physician vs AT) deciding to return the athlete to play were found.
CONCLUSION: Concussions account for nearly 15% of all sport-related injuries in high school athletes. The timing of return to play after a sport-related concussion is similar regardless of whether the decision to return the athlete to play is made by a physician or an AT. When a medical doctor is involved, most concussions are assessed by primary care physicians as opposed to subspecialists. Computed tomography is obtained during the assessment of 1 of every 5 concussions occurring in high school athletes.
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On January 11 2013 12:52 Jibba wrote:Perhaps you don't know much about the NFL, but the rate of concussions and brain damage is alarmingly high, even among other sports. I think there's over one concussion in every American football game (this goes down to the highschool level.) The other issue is that these can be much more debilitating. Of course things like torn achilles tendons are awful, and many professional athletes have trouble walking and moving when they're older, but nothing is as bad as brain damage and dementia. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21969181Show nested quote +METHODS: All concussions recorded by the High School Reporting Information Online (HS RIO) injury surveillance system during the 2009 to 2010 academic year were included. χ(2) analyses were conducted for categorical variables. Fisher exact test was used for nonparametric data. Logistic regression analyses were used when adjusting for potential confounders. Statistical significance was considered for P < .05.
RESULTS: The HS RIO recorded 1056 sport-related concussions, representing 14.6% of all injuries. Most (94.4%) concussions were assessed by athletic trainers (ATs), 58.8% by a primary care physician. Few concussions were managed by specialists. The assessment of 21.2% included computed tomography. Computerized neuropsychological testing was used for 41.2%. For 50.1%, a physician decided when to return the athlete to play; for 46.2%, the decision was made by an AT. After adjusting for potential confounders, no associations between timing of return to play and the type of provider (physician vs AT) deciding to return the athlete to play were found.
CONCLUSION: Concussions account for nearly 15% of all sport-related injuries in high school athletes. The timing of return to play after a sport-related concussion is similar regardless of whether the decision to return the athlete to play is made by a physician or an AT. When a medical doctor is involved, most concussions are assessed by primary care physicians as opposed to subspecialists. Computed tomography is obtained during the assessment of 1 of every 5 concussions occurring in high school athletes.
No, I'm not too familiar with football, I think it has an overall... Stupid concept. The only way to fix injuries in football is to remove football from being a sport allowed in schools. If you look at most other sports, such as basketball, hockey, etc... You actually have to try to give someone a concussion to have a high success rate at it (in which case the troubleshooting of the issue can be changed). Football, simply by playing the game properly you're guaranteeing concussions.
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On January 11 2013 22:45 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 12:52 Jibba wrote:Perhaps you don't know much about the NFL, but the rate of concussions and brain damage is alarmingly high, even among other sports. I think there's over one concussion in every American football game (this goes down to the highschool level.) The other issue is that these can be much more debilitating. Of course things like torn achilles tendons are awful, and many professional athletes have trouble walking and moving when they're older, but nothing is as bad as brain damage and dementia. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21969181METHODS: All concussions recorded by the High School Reporting Information Online (HS RIO) injury surveillance system during the 2009 to 2010 academic year were included. χ(2) analyses were conducted for categorical variables. Fisher exact test was used for nonparametric data. Logistic regression analyses were used when adjusting for potential confounders. Statistical significance was considered for P < .05.
RESULTS: The HS RIO recorded 1056 sport-related concussions, representing 14.6% of all injuries. Most (94.4%) concussions were assessed by athletic trainers (ATs), 58.8% by a primary care physician. Few concussions were managed by specialists. The assessment of 21.2% included computed tomography. Computerized neuropsychological testing was used for 41.2%. For 50.1%, a physician decided when to return the athlete to play; for 46.2%, the decision was made by an AT. After adjusting for potential confounders, no associations between timing of return to play and the type of provider (physician vs AT) deciding to return the athlete to play were found.
CONCLUSION: Concussions account for nearly 15% of all sport-related injuries in high school athletes. The timing of return to play after a sport-related concussion is similar regardless of whether the decision to return the athlete to play is made by a physician or an AT. When a medical doctor is involved, most concussions are assessed by primary care physicians as opposed to subspecialists. Computed tomography is obtained during the assessment of 1 of every 5 concussions occurring in high school athletes. No, I'm not too familiar with football, I think it has an overall... Stupid concept. The only way to fix injuries in football is to remove football from being a sport allowed in schools. If you look at most other sports, such as basketball, hockey, etc... You actually have to try to give someone a concussion to have a high success rate at it (in which case the troubleshooting of the issue can be changed). Football, simply by playing the game properly you're guaranteeing concussions.
Unfortunately, concussions are still a common injury in sports other than football. A perfect example is a female soccer player one of my coworkers is friends with. She sustained a fairly serious concussion during a game, but then lied about her symptoms to start playing again sooner. She didn't sustain another serious concussion, but headed some balls, etc during games. Now, years later, she is still suffering from not letting herself recover fully before heading back into the game. She loses focus, has problems sleeping, gets extremely painful headaches and, truthfully, wishes she hadn't lied to her trainers. While monitoring impacts is extremely important, monitoring the symptoms correctly is even more so. I am sure many, many athletes in all sports figure a fib about a headache and slight "grogginess" won't be life changing when it really can be.
When I get back to work tomorrow, I can pull up numbers on the rate of concussion injuries in various sports.
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EPT
