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Making Sports Safer

Blogs > Riku
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Riku
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1064 Posts
January 07 2013 18:41 GMT
#1
A few months ago, I was finally employed as a full-time engineer. Though I was working full time as a contractor before, I was extremely excited to have full employment with amazing things like benefits and vacation! Yet, even more exciting than that is the work I do.

I am working as an engineer for X2 Biosystems, a company that is attempting to make all sports (well, probably not e-sports) safer. Concussions are a major issue in sports and not just because of the initial damage from your brain smacking around inside of your skull. Many athletes try to "tough it out," especially in concussion heavy sports like football, for fear of being seen as weak or being pulled out of an important game. This is when people die. Second-impact syndrome is a condition which occurs when a person suffers a concussion while still recovering from a previous one and is extremely dangerous, often resulting death or serious brain injury.

How do you recognize those concussions when they are hidden behind pride, mild symptoms and lack of concussion education? By recognizing them on and off of the field. A concussion isn't measurable, unfortunately. You can't say "Well, Timmy here got hit with a force of 50N, so he got a concussion," there are just too many unknown factors that have an effect. Thus, X2 developed a system for monitoring impacts on the field (a tiny patch that goes behind your ear or a mouth-guard with sensors in it) and a system for evaluating those subtle symptoms and comparing them to how the player normally acts.

It's amazing.

I am just so excited about work everyday, so thrilled to go in and work with top doctors, athletes and engineers. I more passionate about my job than I thought I could ever be and it isn't just because I love what I do, I love why I'm doing it. I thought my thrills would come from making neat devices, working on cutting edge technology and getting to design and create things never before thought of, but where it comes from most is knowing that I am making a device that will save lives. With each line I draw, each test I preform, each prototype I painstakingly craft, I am helping keep future children and adults safe.

Maybe one day the thrill will wear off, maybe I'll decide that I would rather have better pay and more ladder rungs to move up, but not today. Today, I'm helping make the world of sports a safer place.


(Sorry about the sappy blog, I was e-mailed this article this morning and I just had to share: http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/tech/post/_/id/3547/could-x2s-skin-patch-detect-concussions )

***
Creative Director, CEO at Stumbling Cat, Writer for Broken Joysticks - Twitter: @RikuKat
sixfour
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
England11061 Posts
January 07 2013 18:46 GMT
#2
Making sports safer by greater recognition of when concussions occur - good thing

Making sports safer by removing kickoffs and it being an auto 15 yard penalty if you breathe anywhere near a QBs head - bad thing
p: stats, horang2, free, jangbi z: soulkey, zero, shine, hydra t: leta, hiya, sea
Game
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3191 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-07 19:24:43
January 07 2013 19:20 GMT
#3
On January 08 2013 03:46 sixfour wrote:
Making sports safer by greater recognition of when concussions occur - good thing

Making sports safer by removing kickoffs and it being an auto 15 yard penalty if you breathe anywhere near a QBs head - bad thing

Unfortunately they go hand in hand.

@Riku, as a football player I truly don't know a lot about the science behind my body. However, having had many concussions and having gone back and played with them based on a personal diagnosis of being "okay", I can't say that I fully agree with what you're doing. I get it when receivers and such get slammed that they should stay out until a doctor says it's okay, because they're just going to be destroyed over and over again in their position. However, the same really can't be said for linemen, linebackers, or well, the appropriately bodied men on the field from my perspective.

Edit: To reiterate, I think it's good, but needs more clear cut and defined boundaries when influencing games.
SC is like sex. You should play often, but never too hard. And you should only try hard when it matters.
Riku
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1064 Posts
January 07 2013 19:35 GMT
#4
On January 08 2013 04:20 Game wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2013 03:46 sixfour wrote:
Making sports safer by greater recognition of when concussions occur - good thing

Making sports safer by removing kickoffs and it being an auto 15 yard penalty if you breathe anywhere near a QBs head - bad thing

Unfortunately they go hand in hand.

@Riku, as a football player I truly don't know a lot about the science behind my body. However, having had many concussions and having gone back and played with them based on a personal diagnosis of being "okay", I can't say that I fully agree with what you're doing. I get it when receivers and such get slammed that they should stay out until a doctor says it's okay, because they're just going to be destroyed over and over again in their position. However, the same really can't be said for linemen, linebackers, or well, the appropriately bodied men on the field from my perspective.

Edit: To reiterate, I think it's good, but needs more clear cut and defined boundaries when influencing games.


There are already rules and laws ( http://www.nflevolution.com/article/The-Zackery-Lystedt-Law?ref=270 ) about how a concussion should be treated. Our company isn't creating any additional rules nor restrictions, but making them easier to apply.

Seems from the sidelines you got hit really hard? A coach/trainer would take you out. However, our system could tell them how hard and, then, show them if you were exhibiting any concussion symptoms. If you weren't, there would not be any guessing (you could skip the "if in doubt, sit them out") and go back into the game.

Additionally, you are a perfect example of exactly why this is needed. Being a linebacker doesn't make your brain more prepared to withstand a concussion. In fact, all of that slamming makes you more likely to die from one.

Here are some pictures of what you may have without realizing: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/12/03/sports/images-of-brain-injuries-in-athletes.html?smid=tw-nytimes
Creative Director, CEO at Stumbling Cat, Writer for Broken Joysticks - Twitter: @RikuKat
DusTerr
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
2520 Posts
January 07 2013 19:41 GMT
#5
On January 08 2013 04:20 Game wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2013 03:46 sixfour wrote:
Making sports safer by greater recognition of when concussions occur - good thing

Making sports safer by removing kickoffs and it being an auto 15 yard penalty if you breathe anywhere near a QBs head - bad thing

Unfortunately they go hand in hand.

@Riku, as a football player I truly don't know a lot about the science behind my body. However, having had many concussions and having gone back and played with them based on a personal diagnosis of being "okay", I can't say that I fully agree with what you're doing. I get it when receivers and such get slammed that they should stay out until a doctor says it's okay, because they're just going to be destroyed over and over again in their position. However, the same really can't be said for linemen, linebackers, or well, the appropriately bodied men on the field from my perspective.

Edit: To reiterate, I think it's good, but needs more clear cut and defined boundaries when influencing games.


You think a person's physique makes a difference when it comes to brain trauma? (besides neck muscles possibly being able to help damper the impact)

After watching RG3 continue to play it should be apparent that a player thinking they are "okay" is not the same thing as actually being "okay" (especially if it's something that concerns your ability to think/reason).

Also, it sounds more like they're developing technology to help analyse impacts more. Just the first step in being able to try to find a correlation between how hard an impact on the head is and studying what effect that has on the brain. Either way, Riku isn't involved in the NFL rules process. :D (this is also something that could be used in boxing or mma)
ParkwayDrive
Profile Joined July 2011
United States328 Posts
January 07 2013 20:06 GMT
#6
getting rid of the nfl and american football in general would be a good start. there are plenty of other sports where people arent killing themselves or others because their brain chemistry is too screwed up from years of abuse
fabiano
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Brazil4644 Posts
January 07 2013 20:53 GMT
#7
The danger is what makes many sports fun....
"When the geyser died, a probe came out" - SirJolt
Game
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3191 Posts
January 07 2013 20:57 GMT
#8
On January 08 2013 05:53 fabiano wrote:
The danger is what makes many sports fun....

Maybe for a spectator. The risk of injury provides an image of toughness and manhood that can't be conjured by many other legal means, but I don't know a single player who wants to get hurt.
SC is like sex. You should play often, but never too hard. And you should only try hard when it matters.
NotoriousBig
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Germany301 Posts
January 07 2013 20:59 GMT
#9
On January 08 2013 05:53 fabiano wrote:
The danger is what makes many sports fun....


sometimes, but i think the most interesting thing is the competition and the will to win against a strong opponent, this is what makes eSport and all real Sports entertaining for me, atleast when i do some sports, i don´ßt watch any sport on TV not even SC2 only Proleague or going to live events
Louuster
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2869 Posts
January 07 2013 20:59 GMT
#10
On January 08 2013 04:20 Game wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2013 03:46 sixfour wrote:
Making sports safer by greater recognition of when concussions occur - good thing

Making sports safer by removing kickoffs and it being an auto 15 yard penalty if you breathe anywhere near a QBs head - bad thing

Unfortunately they go hand in hand.

@Riku, as a football player I truly don't know a lot about the science behind my body. However, having had many concussions and having gone back and played with them based on a personal diagnosis of being "okay", I can't say that I fully agree with what you're doing. I get it when receivers and such get slammed that they should stay out until a doctor says it's okay, because they're just going to be destroyed over and over again in their position. However, the same really can't be said for linemen, linebackers, or well, the appropriately bodied men on the field from my perspective.

Edit: To reiterate, I think it's good, but needs more clear cut and defined boundaries when influencing games.


This mentality is exactly what the main problem is and what leagues are trying to (unsuccesfully) combat at every level. The whole "man up, you're a tough guy so just shake it off and go back out there" is what will cause more problems and needs to change, more than any gear or rule changes.
Kim Taek Yong fighting~
Game
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3191 Posts
January 07 2013 21:04 GMT
#11
On January 08 2013 05:59 Louuster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2013 04:20 Game wrote:
On January 08 2013 03:46 sixfour wrote:
Making sports safer by greater recognition of when concussions occur - good thing

Making sports safer by removing kickoffs and it being an auto 15 yard penalty if you breathe anywhere near a QBs head - bad thing

Unfortunately they go hand in hand.

@Riku, as a football player I truly don't know a lot about the science behind my body. However, having had many concussions and having gone back and played with them based on a personal diagnosis of being "okay", I can't say that I fully agree with what you're doing. I get it when receivers and such get slammed that they should stay out until a doctor says it's okay, because they're just going to be destroyed over and over again in their position. However, the same really can't be said for linemen, linebackers, or well, the appropriately bodied men on the field from my perspective.

Edit: To reiterate, I think it's good, but needs more clear cut and defined boundaries when influencing games.


This mentality is exactly what the main problem is and what leagues are trying to (unsuccesfully) combat at every level. The whole "man up, you're a tough guy so just shake it off and go back out there" is what will cause more problems and needs to change, more than any gear or rule changes.

Men being paid an average 4 million dollars a year at the sacrifice of their mind and body is a choice they individually make. You can't change those who don't want to change successfully, hence the protest by players who are opposed to Roger Goodell turning the NFL into a girly league. Soldiers go to war for mid-40k marks risking more optionally, I don't think half of the neanderthals in the league are crying about being millionaires rather than being a possible nobody via natural selection.

tl;dr: It's an ethical issue to invade a historical sport that compensates their players at the level that they do.
SC is like sex. You should play often, but never too hard. And you should only try hard when it matters.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18843 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-07 21:09:50
January 07 2013 21:09 GMT
#12
On January 08 2013 05:57 Game wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2013 05:53 fabiano wrote:
The danger is what makes many sports fun....

Maybe for a spectator. The risk of injury provides an image of toughness and manhood that can't be conjured by many other legal means, but I don't know a single player who wants to get hurt.

Well of course the players don't want to get hurt, but that doesn't really have anything to do with the thrill of a high energy and velocity collision sport. As far as I see it, college and high school American football players deserve more of the safety attention, for we are dealing with student-athletes in those cases. When it comes to the NFL, however, I'm not so sure. These men are paid shit tons of money (and yes, O linemen and other less flashy positions make less, but still) to go out there and compete at the highest level, and as long as they are made well aware of the risks they are subjecting themselves to, I see no reason to neuter the game a la bringing kickoff distance in or making additional hit types illegal. As someone who boxes and plays both football and rugby, the hits and physicality are by far my favorite part.

As for the content of Riku's blog, I think improving health assessment tools and increasing concussion awareness are both very good things, so cheers from me!

Edit: Game, it would appear we very much agree anyhow
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
January 07 2013 21:10 GMT
#13
Wasn't there an episode of South Park on this? xD was quite a funny one too
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32098 Posts
January 07 2013 22:11 GMT
#14
On January 08 2013 05:59 Louuster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2013 04:20 Game wrote:
On January 08 2013 03:46 sixfour wrote:
Making sports safer by greater recognition of when concussions occur - good thing

Making sports safer by removing kickoffs and it being an auto 15 yard penalty if you breathe anywhere near a QBs head - bad thing

Unfortunately they go hand in hand.

@Riku, as a football player I truly don't know a lot about the science behind my body. However, having had many concussions and having gone back and played with them based on a personal diagnosis of being "okay", I can't say that I fully agree with what you're doing. I get it when receivers and such get slammed that they should stay out until a doctor says it's okay, because they're just going to be destroyed over and over again in their position. However, the same really can't be said for linemen, linebackers, or well, the appropriately bodied men on the field from my perspective.

Edit: To reiterate, I think it's good, but needs more clear cut and defined boundaries when influencing games.


This mentality is exactly what the main problem is and what leagues are trying to (unsuccesfully) combat at every level. The whole "man up, you're a tough guy so just shake it off and go back out there" is what will cause more problems and needs to change, more than any gear or rule changes.

what would really unfuck a lot of these issues at an NFL issue is binding contracts. You can sign a 5 year - $30m contract, but if you are cut at the end of year one, you are only getting that first year + any signing bonuses/incentives that were reached.

Broken players continually go back out there because they are playing for their jobs on every snap. Only the biggest of stars are exempt from that.

Perfect example: Alex Smith playing out a concussion, because he knew that he had Kaepernick breathing down his neck.
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
January 07 2013 22:14 GMT
#15
On January 08 2013 06:04 Game wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2013 05:59 Louuster wrote:
On January 08 2013 04:20 Game wrote:
On January 08 2013 03:46 sixfour wrote:
Making sports safer by greater recognition of when concussions occur - good thing

Making sports safer by removing kickoffs and it being an auto 15 yard penalty if you breathe anywhere near a QBs head - bad thing

Unfortunately they go hand in hand.

@Riku, as a football player I truly don't know a lot about the science behind my body. However, having had many concussions and having gone back and played with them based on a personal diagnosis of being "okay", I can't say that I fully agree with what you're doing. I get it when receivers and such get slammed that they should stay out until a doctor says it's okay, because they're just going to be destroyed over and over again in their position. However, the same really can't be said for linemen, linebackers, or well, the appropriately bodied men on the field from my perspective.

Edit: To reiterate, I think it's good, but needs more clear cut and defined boundaries when influencing games.


This mentality is exactly what the main problem is and what leagues are trying to (unsuccesfully) combat at every level. The whole "man up, you're a tough guy so just shake it off and go back out there" is what will cause more problems and needs to change, more than any gear or rule changes.

Men being paid an average 4 million dollars a year at the sacrifice of their mind and body is a choice they individually make. You can't change those who don't want to change successfully, hence the protest by players who are opposed to Roger Goodell turning the NFL into a girly league. Soldiers go to war for mid-40k marks risking more optionally, I don't think half of the neanderthals in the league are crying about being millionaires rather than being a possible nobody via natural selection.

tl;dr: It's an ethical issue to invade a historical sport that compensates their players at the level that they do.

The NFL has also been trying to hide the effects of concussions from its players and mislead them as to what the risks actually are.

Everyone knows you're taking a risk by playing football, but up until a few years ago most people didn't know (even though the NFL had settled a lawsuit for it back in 2000) it also led to much higher rates of mental illness and a host of other things.

There's less players concerned about "wussification" than the impact concussions will have on them when they're only 50 or 60. Especially, especially at the college and highschool level.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
January 07 2013 22:18 GMT
#16
I've played football for four years and will be playing in college next fall, and I haven't once sustained a concussion. I'm also a lineman on both defense and offense, so there is helmet to helmet contact every play. Perhaps I'm lucky, or I don't know.

It amazes me at how easily some people get concussions and other injuries when I haven't sustained a lengthy injury (never had to miss a game, had to sit out of 3 practices in 4 years) in my time playing.

By playing football, you are acknowledging the health risks. Sure, I agree that the game should be "made safer," but the bullshit QB rules and "defenseless receiver" rules annoy me to no end.
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32098 Posts
January 07 2013 22:46 GMT
#17
On January 08 2013 07:14 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2013 06:04 Game wrote:
On January 08 2013 05:59 Louuster wrote:
On January 08 2013 04:20 Game wrote:
On January 08 2013 03:46 sixfour wrote:
Making sports safer by greater recognition of when concussions occur - good thing

Making sports safer by removing kickoffs and it being an auto 15 yard penalty if you breathe anywhere near a QBs head - bad thing

Unfortunately they go hand in hand.

@Riku, as a football player I truly don't know a lot about the science behind my body. However, having had many concussions and having gone back and played with them based on a personal diagnosis of being "okay", I can't say that I fully agree with what you're doing. I get it when receivers and such get slammed that they should stay out until a doctor says it's okay, because they're just going to be destroyed over and over again in their position. However, the same really can't be said for linemen, linebackers, or well, the appropriately bodied men on the field from my perspective.

Edit: To reiterate, I think it's good, but needs more clear cut and defined boundaries when influencing games.


This mentality is exactly what the main problem is and what leagues are trying to (unsuccesfully) combat at every level. The whole "man up, you're a tough guy so just shake it off and go back out there" is what will cause more problems and needs to change, more than any gear or rule changes.

Men being paid an average 4 million dollars a year at the sacrifice of their mind and body is a choice they individually make. You can't change those who don't want to change successfully, hence the protest by players who are opposed to Roger Goodell turning the NFL into a girly league. Soldiers go to war for mid-40k marks risking more optionally, I don't think half of the neanderthals in the league are crying about being millionaires rather than being a possible nobody via natural selection.

tl;dr: It's an ethical issue to invade a historical sport that compensates their players at the level that they do.

The NFL has also been trying to hide the effects of concussions from its players and mislead them as to what the risks actually are.

Everyone knows you're taking a risk by playing football, but up until a few years ago most people didn't know (even though the NFL had settled a lawsuit for it back in 2000) it also led to much higher rates of mental illness and a host of other things.

There's less players concerned about "wussification" than the impact concussions will have on them when they're only 50 or 60. Especially, especially at the college and highschool level.


the tough guy culture is definitely a part of the problem, but probably a lot less so than not wanting to lose your job, and I would assume wanting to help your team win. The amount of media knob slobbing RG3 would have received if they won would have been mind boggling. That would pay dividends in his next contract, on more endorsements, etc.


PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-07 23:30:14
January 07 2013 23:28 GMT
#18
The "tough guy culture" exists only as an extension of what is natural to a lot of guys; that is to say that the mindset is more due to being a human male and to some cultural set of values. I played football as well, and being competitive in a very physical sport made me feel better than anything, and it was a very naturally fulfilling endeavor in this way. You can be competitive in other areas as well, like SC2, for instance, but you absolutely will not get the same satisfying feeling from that as you would from football or other sports.

I'm all for the research, but only under the impression that the research can help make sports, especially pro football safer without having it change in any more drastic ways than it has.

@darthfoley: the ones in danger are the ones that are usually running when they're hit, like WRs, RBs. QBs suffer concussions because they are often hit from behind or from awkward angles and are lighter than those typically hitting them.

P.S., go Broncos! It's been tooooooooooo long!
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-07 23:36:19
January 07 2013 23:34 GMT
#19
On January 08 2013 08:28 tehemperorer wrote:
I'm all for the research, but only under the impression that the research can help make sports, especially pro football safer without having it change in any more drastic ways than it has.

Well yeah, but there will always be a significant delay between the research of a problem and the invention of the technology that will mitigate it, and right now we're in that period.

It's hard to "not do anything" once the information is out. Then again, if Goodell were serious about safety then he also wouldn't be in favor of an 18 game schedule.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-07 23:47:22
January 07 2013 23:45 GMT
#20
On January 08 2013 05:57 Game wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2013 05:53 fabiano wrote:
The danger is what makes many sports fun....

Maybe for a spectator. The risk of injury provides an image of toughness and manhood that can't be conjured by many other legal means, but I don't know a single player who wants to get hurt.


Ask the players while you're at it. I know a lot of guys embrace the danger side too. There were a few outspoken goons/fighters in the NHL who say they really don't like to fight, but they fill the role and sort of how to do it. Then there are others who accept it as it's part of the sport. Then you have some guys who are out there to hurt, so it's not just fun to watch from a spectator standpoint. There is a lot more to it than just that.

You guys should look at the difference between professional grade gear compared to the stuff you buy out on the shelves. It's very different.
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-07 23:58:10
January 07 2013 23:56 GMT
#21
On January 08 2013 08:34 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2013 08:28 tehemperorer wrote:
I'm all for the research, but only under the impression that the research can help make sports, especially pro football safer without having it change in any more drastic ways than it has.

Well yeah, but there will always be a significant delay between the research of a problem and the invention of the technology that will mitigate it, and right now we're in that period.

It's hard to "not do anything" once the information is out. Then again, if Goodell were serious about safety then he also wouldn't be in favor of an 18 game schedule.

Yes on first paragraph

Goodell, as far as I can tell, is interested in player safety, and so are the owners. Maybe they're in favor of player safety for the wrong reasons, but the concern is still there. They did vote to expand the "defenseless player" definition, they moved kickoffs so that less would be returned (most injuries happen on kickoffs), they broke up the wedge formation on kickoffs, added an extra slot on the roster for players unable to play due to a concussion, and although they are interested in an 18 week schedule, they do want to do it in the context of more limited off-season workouts to limit player wear-and-tear.

To me, it makes sense. As an owner, if I paid a bunch of money for a high-value player, I would want that player to be on the field as much as possible, and reduce the risk to him so that my investment doesn't go down the drain early in the season (enter another rule protecting quarterbacks... Week 2 of the 2008-2009 season, Chiefs vs Patriots, Chiefs player hits Brady below the knee)
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
January 08 2013 00:18 GMT
#22
A lot of sports are oddly dangerous. Even in soccer you run the risk of head trauma. I do soccer practice fairly often and I refuse to do any of the exercises where one has to return the ball with your head (translates as header?), simply because I'm sensitive to these things and they give me an instant headache. I can scarcely imagine being unscathed after doing this twenty times a day for years with the higher speeds they have in professional play. And of course you can bump heads while jumping in a real game, causing concussions.

Obviously sports like boxing and American football are far worse. Top athletes have many risk factors, from common injuries, to head injuries, to heart attacks, to being damaged by steroid abuse, to getting drug addictions because all of a sudden one is rich and has access. I don't know of any available studies, but it really would not surprise me to learn that top athletes tend to die young with brain damage. I mean, my brother was injured when spectating a baseball game when he was 7, the subject scares me a bit.

I honestly think that long-term maybe it's a good idea to stop encouraging kids to join games that will kill them if played at a high level, especially football. (like, remove football as a high school / college sport)
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
January 08 2013 00:18 GMT
#23
I think their interest in player safety has more to do with liability rather than genuine interest to protect players. They've definitely sent mixed signals regarding safety, and the only commonality seems to be money.

The NFL's claim has been that they simply didn't know about the damage until now, but that's simply not consistent with this:
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page/OTL-Mixed-Messages/nfl-disability-board-concluded-playing-football-caused-brain-injuries-even-officials-issued-denials-years

So they've known about it. Just didn't act until more research became public and it forced their hand.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 08 2013 00:50 GMT
#24
yay for engineering love <3
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
January 08 2013 01:34 GMT
#25
Take out the shoulderpads and bring back leather helmets.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Riku
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1064 Posts
January 08 2013 17:28 GMT
#26
It is really great reading all of this feedback and discussion, guys! Thank you! :D
Creative Director, CEO at Stumbling Cat, Writer for Broken Joysticks - Twitter: @RikuKat
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
January 08 2013 21:31 GMT
#27
On January 08 2013 06:10 Pandemona wrote:
Wasn't there an episode of South Park on this? xD was quite a funny one too

Yeah of course it was sooooo funny, I really laughed a lot, I had to recommend it to everyone, in fact it was my favourite episode of all times, you know, so creative and so original.
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10344 Posts
January 09 2013 03:28 GMT
#28
Football is a game where muscle-bound freakish athletes, some weighing over 300 pounds, collide into each other at full speed, and use any means to subdue their opponent with physical force.

The only safe form of tackle football is to NOT PLAY IT. No amount of PR bandages will change this.
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
Cornstyle
Profile Joined October 2010
United States147 Posts
January 09 2013 03:52 GMT
#29
On January 09 2013 12:28 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Football is a game where muscle-bound freakish athletes, some weighing over 300 pounds, collide into each other at full speed, and use any means to subdue their opponent with physical force.

The only safe form of tackle football is to NOT PLAY IT. No amount of PR bandages will change this.


Very agreed in that there is no way to make tackle football completely safe. Plenty of what the NFL is trying to do to improve safety is a good thing, but as has been mentioned previously most of it is PR due to their horrible handling of safety for the previous generations of players. I hope the lawsuit that's in progress turns out well for those vets.

On the other hand, the current generation of players I have no real sympathy for because they know what they're in for. Work like the OP is doing is great as it provides the players, trainers and coaches with more information to hopefully avoid catastrophic injuries. I wish the NFL would focus more on this and less on reducing the physicality of a sport that is based in it.
ElizarTringov
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Bulgaria317 Posts
January 10 2013 00:58 GMT
#30
So this could hypothetically work for boxers too right? I am wondering though, once an alert is sent and you know you have been hit too hard, what do you do? Do you just take some time off? How much time do you know to take off?
Perfect practice makes perfect.
Riku
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1064 Posts
January 11 2013 03:26 GMT
#31
On January 10 2013 09:58 ElizarTringov wrote:
So this could hypothetically work for boxers too right? I am wondering though, once an alert is sent and you know you have been hit too hard, what do you do? Do you just take some time off? How much time do you know to take off?


Yes, it can work in any sport. We currently are working with football, hockey, lacrosse, rugby and soccer teams, but we are currently working on finding a boxing group to work with as well.

As for your other questions, there are many answers, none of which you'll probably find too satisfying. This has to do with the medical aspect of it, which is not my forte, but I will tell you what I know.

There is not a defined threshold of force for causing a concussion. Anyone who tells you differently is lying. There are just too many variables per person, situation and impact to know if one hit caused a concussion. However, it is possible to note impacts in the "dangerous" zone of force. Of course, the higher the force, the more certain it is to give you a concussion.

If you suffer an impact which causes a concussion, it is recommended you stay off of the field/court/ring until you get doctor approval to return. This usually occurs when your symptoms have subsided. Unfortunately, people often lie about these symptoms to get back in the game earlier, but this is when your brain is most vulnerable and a second impact could kill you. That is why X2 has a system for monitoring and gauging concussion symptoms (it is a series of tests, including memory tests, balance tests, etc, that are compared to your scores before the concussion).

It is a general rule of thumb to take 2 weeks off (of activity which could cause a second impact) when you suffer a concussion, but this varies greatly.
Creative Director, CEO at Stumbling Cat, Writer for Broken Joysticks - Twitter: @RikuKat
Eywa-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada4876 Posts
January 11 2013 03:38 GMT
#32
While the thought of what this company seems to be doing seems nice, it doesn't change the fact that you're diagnosing a VERY minor percent of injuries... So to call it making sports safer, technically accurate... But how much safer, probably by less than 1% given that you're looking for concussion symptoms, therefore, the only players affected are players who suffer another massive blow after a concussion, which I'd have to guess is quite the slim number in comparison to all sporting injuries and all sporting violent contacts without injuries.

So, it's a good idea... But it touches a very specific problem which makes little impact (realistically). Maybe every little issue needs to be examined under a microscope, but the truth is... If that's the approach, sports won't become much safer than currently in our generation for sure, possibly the next.

A sure fire way to make sports safe is non-contact sports.
Being mannered is almost as important as winning. Almost...
Eywa-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada4876 Posts
January 11 2013 03:39 GMT
#33
(not to mention, in many sports, attempt to injure is met with little to no penalty)
Being mannered is almost as important as winning. Almost...
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-11 03:58:57
January 11 2013 03:52 GMT
#34
Perhaps you don't know much about the NFL, but the rate of concussions and brain damage is alarmingly high, even among other sports. I think there's over one concussion in every American football game (this goes down to the highschool level.)

The other issue is that these can be much more debilitating. Of course things like torn achilles tendons are awful, and many professional athletes have trouble walking and moving when they're older, but nothing is as bad as brain damage and dementia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21969181

METHODS: All concussions recorded by the High School Reporting Information Online (HS RIO) injury surveillance system during the 2009 to 2010 academic year were included. χ(2) analyses were conducted for categorical variables. Fisher exact test was used for nonparametric data. Logistic regression analyses were used when adjusting for potential confounders. Statistical significance was considered for P < .05.

RESULTS: The HS RIO recorded 1056 sport-related concussions, representing 14.6% of all injuries. Most (94.4%) concussions were assessed by athletic trainers (ATs), 58.8% by a primary care physician. Few concussions were managed by specialists. The assessment of 21.2% included computed tomography. Computerized neuropsychological testing was used for 41.2%. For 50.1%, a physician decided when to return the athlete to play; for 46.2%, the decision was made by an AT. After adjusting for potential confounders, no associations between timing of return to play and the type of provider (physician vs AT) deciding to return the athlete to play were found.

CONCLUSION: Concussions account for nearly 15% of all sport-related injuries in high school athletes. The timing of return to play after a sport-related concussion is similar regardless of whether the decision to return the athlete to play is made by a physician or an AT. When a medical doctor is involved, most concussions are assessed by primary care physicians as opposed to subspecialists. Computed tomography is obtained during the assessment of 1 of every 5 concussions occurring in high school athletes.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Eywa-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada4876 Posts
January 11 2013 13:45 GMT
#35
On January 11 2013 12:52 Jibba wrote:
Perhaps you don't know much about the NFL, but the rate of concussions and brain damage is alarmingly high, even among other sports. I think there's over one concussion in every American football game (this goes down to the highschool level.)

The other issue is that these can be much more debilitating. Of course things like torn achilles tendons are awful, and many professional athletes have trouble walking and moving when they're older, but nothing is as bad as brain damage and dementia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21969181

Show nested quote +
METHODS: All concussions recorded by the High School Reporting Information Online (HS RIO) injury surveillance system during the 2009 to 2010 academic year were included. χ(2) analyses were conducted for categorical variables. Fisher exact test was used for nonparametric data. Logistic regression analyses were used when adjusting for potential confounders. Statistical significance was considered for P < .05.

RESULTS: The HS RIO recorded 1056 sport-related concussions, representing 14.6% of all injuries. Most (94.4%) concussions were assessed by athletic trainers (ATs), 58.8% by a primary care physician. Few concussions were managed by specialists. The assessment of 21.2% included computed tomography. Computerized neuropsychological testing was used for 41.2%. For 50.1%, a physician decided when to return the athlete to play; for 46.2%, the decision was made by an AT. After adjusting for potential confounders, no associations between timing of return to play and the type of provider (physician vs AT) deciding to return the athlete to play were found.

CONCLUSION: Concussions account for nearly 15% of all sport-related injuries in high school athletes. The timing of return to play after a sport-related concussion is similar regardless of whether the decision to return the athlete to play is made by a physician or an AT. When a medical doctor is involved, most concussions are assessed by primary care physicians as opposed to subspecialists. Computed tomography is obtained during the assessment of 1 of every 5 concussions occurring in high school athletes.

No, I'm not too familiar with football, I think it has an overall... Stupid concept. The only way to fix injuries in football is to remove football from being a sport allowed in schools. If you look at most other sports, such as basketball, hockey, etc... You actually have to try to give someone a concussion to have a high success rate at it (in which case the troubleshooting of the issue can be changed). Football, simply by playing the game properly you're guaranteeing concussions.
Being mannered is almost as important as winning. Almost...
Riku
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1064 Posts
January 13 2013 21:23 GMT
#36
On January 11 2013 22:45 Eywa- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2013 12:52 Jibba wrote:
Perhaps you don't know much about the NFL, but the rate of concussions and brain damage is alarmingly high, even among other sports. I think there's over one concussion in every American football game (this goes down to the highschool level.)

The other issue is that these can be much more debilitating. Of course things like torn achilles tendons are awful, and many professional athletes have trouble walking and moving when they're older, but nothing is as bad as brain damage and dementia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21969181

METHODS: All concussions recorded by the High School Reporting Information Online (HS RIO) injury surveillance system during the 2009 to 2010 academic year were included. χ(2) analyses were conducted for categorical variables. Fisher exact test was used for nonparametric data. Logistic regression analyses were used when adjusting for potential confounders. Statistical significance was considered for P < .05.

RESULTS: The HS RIO recorded 1056 sport-related concussions, representing 14.6% of all injuries. Most (94.4%) concussions were assessed by athletic trainers (ATs), 58.8% by a primary care physician. Few concussions were managed by specialists. The assessment of 21.2% included computed tomography. Computerized neuropsychological testing was used for 41.2%. For 50.1%, a physician decided when to return the athlete to play; for 46.2%, the decision was made by an AT. After adjusting for potential confounders, no associations between timing of return to play and the type of provider (physician vs AT) deciding to return the athlete to play were found.

CONCLUSION: Concussions account for nearly 15% of all sport-related injuries in high school athletes. The timing of return to play after a sport-related concussion is similar regardless of whether the decision to return the athlete to play is made by a physician or an AT. When a medical doctor is involved, most concussions are assessed by primary care physicians as opposed to subspecialists. Computed tomography is obtained during the assessment of 1 of every 5 concussions occurring in high school athletes.

No, I'm not too familiar with football, I think it has an overall... Stupid concept. The only way to fix injuries in football is to remove football from being a sport allowed in schools. If you look at most other sports, such as basketball, hockey, etc... You actually have to try to give someone a concussion to have a high success rate at it (in which case the troubleshooting of the issue can be changed). Football, simply by playing the game properly you're guaranteeing concussions.


Unfortunately, concussions are still a common injury in sports other than football. A perfect example is a female soccer player one of my coworkers is friends with. She sustained a fairly serious concussion during a game, but then lied about her symptoms to start playing again sooner. She didn't sustain another serious concussion, but headed some balls, etc during games. Now, years later, she is still suffering from not letting herself recover fully before heading back into the game. She loses focus, has problems sleeping, gets extremely painful headaches and, truthfully, wishes she hadn't lied to her trainers. While monitoring impacts is extremely important, monitoring the symptoms correctly is even more so. I am sure many, many athletes in all sports figure a fib about a headache and slight "grogginess" won't be life changing when it really can be.

When I get back to work tomorrow, I can pull up numbers on the rate of concussion injuries in various sports.
Creative Director, CEO at Stumbling Cat, Writer for Broken Joysticks - Twitter: @RikuKat
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