I hate these people with a fiery passion. And it's not even for the reasons you think I do.
A few weeks ago, I saw an offer for a "free Bible". Being in the middle of a class on the Bible for English, I took a look and ended up at the LDS website. Now, a smarter person would have probably stopped there, but genius me, I filled out the request form and submitted it, thinking that I'd get an email back.
Nope.
I'm an idiot.
Two days ago, while I was at a Speech Tournament, my mom heard a knock on the door. She looked out the peephole and saw one small young man standing there with a smile. She opened the door, then saw a gigantic slab of a man, well over six feet tall, standing off to the side.
Mormons.
After asking where I was and if my mom could get me, they began to ask for information about us. At this point, my mom told them that I was not interested and to please go away. They left, but not before telling her that they were from a town a few dozen miles away.
That was the end of it.
Until a few minutes ago, that is.
A knock on the door. I opened it without looking, and was confronted by three men large enough to be NBA quarterbacks.
"Hello! Are you Jasper?" the one in front asked. "The church received a request for information a week ago!"
No. Go away, you creeps. Get with the modern age and use internet to answer high schooler's emails, not three(!) pious hulks to my doorstep.
"I'm not interested. Please don't come again." Bam. Door shut.
I may have complaints about the ethics of the Church and its beliefs. But for their sheer inability to respect my right to privacy and borderline intimidation, makes me want to tear apart the Book of Mormon that they never gave me.
On December 19 2012 06:50 farvacola wrote: Ever met a Jehovah's Witness? It gets worse, much worse lol.
We actually have this regular couple that visit us every now and then, they're really nice once you get past all the religious stuff, actually visited them once to have a cup of tea. So they're not all that bad, only about 95% are.
I came in here expecting a long winded speech about the ideological faults of Mormonism since I saw it was a Praetorial blog, son I am disappoint. Religious people knowing on your door is definitely shitty though.
Thank god we don't really have this in Britain, at least not around where I've lived. Sometimes we'll get people knocking on the door asking us to sign a petition that would affect the local area, but no Mormons.
They actually sound like really nice and caring people, putting in a lot of effort just for you, maybe you should've responded to them like a decent human being instead of a complete jackass.
That's actually hilarious. When it comes to faith, the harder you push someone to convert, the harder they push back. If that was actually intimidation, then the Mormon church is run by retards.
On December 19 2012 06:50 farvacola wrote: Ever met a Jehovah's Witness? It gets worse, much worse lol.
We actually have this regular couple that visit us every now and then, they're really nice once you get past all the religious stuff, actually visited them once to have a cup of tea. So they're not all that bad, only about 95% are.
Indeed, there are exceptions most certainly, though the only JW I've ever been able to tolerate admitted that every non JW was probably not automatically going to hell lol
On December 19 2012 06:58 Caihead wrote: I came in here expecting a long winded speech about the ideological faults of Mormonism since I saw it was a Praetorial blog, son I am disappoint. Religious people knowing on your door is definitely shitty though.
Oh no you didn't!
Original Message From TL.net Bot: You have been temp banned for 2 days by Excalibur_Z.
Reason: "I am disappoint" is a terrible meme.
Do not attempt to circumvent this ban by making a new account, or your ban duration will be increased.
On December 19 2012 06:56 iamperfection wrote: it didn't really sound that bad. seems like your overreacting a bit.
I am not overreacting.
a) I simply answered what I thought was a form for a mail order, as the website purported it to be,
b) they sent five people, four of whom were of sufficient size to be EXTREMELY intimidating,
c) they never gave my the Bible.
The last one is minor, but the first two pure rudeness.
On December 19 2012 07:02 Frits wrote: They actually sound like really nice and caring people, putting in a lot of effort just for you, maybe you should've responded to them like a decent human being instead of a complete jackass.
They should have at least emailed me before sending three football players after my mom had made it clear that they were not to visit again.
On December 19 2012 07:02 Frits wrote: They actually sound like really nice and caring people, putting in a lot of effort just for you, maybe you should've responded to them like a decent human being instead of a complete jackass.
They should have at least emailed me before sending three football players after my mom had made it clear that they were not to visit again.
lol do you have a sign on your front door that says you must be under this height to enter.
On December 19 2012 06:56 iamperfection wrote: it didn't really sound that bad. seems like your overreacting a bit.
I am not overreacting.
a) I simply answered what I thought was a form for a mail order, as the website purported it to be,
b) they sent five people, four of whom were of sufficient size to be EXTREMELY intimidating,
c) they never gave my the Bible.
The last one is minor, but the first two pure rudeness.
On December 19 2012 07:02 Frits wrote: They actually sound like really nice and caring people, putting in a lot of effort just for you, maybe you should've responded to them like a decent human being instead of a complete jackass.
They should have at least emailed me before sending three football players after my mom had made it clear that they were not to visit again.
lol do you have a sign on your front door that says you must be under this height to enter.
The door is kinda small, actually...
But sending three gigantic dudes after my mom told the other two to leave and that we weren't interested is ignorance of social grace at its finest.
On December 19 2012 06:50 farvacola wrote: Ever met a Jehovah's Witness? It gets worse, much worse lol.
We actually have this regular couple that visit us every now and then, they're really nice once you get past all the religious stuff, actually visited them once to have a cup of tea. So they're not all that bad, only about 95% are.
How do you... do that?
I mean, that's their job, basically. That's why they came, right? They're salesmen. Perhaps nice salesmen, but they still want to sell you their religion.
Really I think the worst thing is that you didn't get a bible. I mean if they had at least given you a bible then it would have been an actual offer that just had some unfortunate soliciting consequences. But if you didn't even get a bible it makes it seem like some creepy scam.
On December 19 2012 06:50 farvacola wrote: Ever met a Jehovah's Witness? It gets worse, much worse lol.
We actually have this regular couple that visit us every now and then, they're really nice once you get past all the religious stuff, actually visited them once to have a cup of tea. So they're not all that bad, only about 95% are.
How do you... do that?
I mean, that's their job, basically. That's why they came, right? They're salesmen. Perhaps nice salesmen, but they still want to sell you their religion.
They don't get paid for it, they have regular jobs, the woman keeps a bookstore and her husband is a construction engineer, they're regular people and we talk about tons of other stuff these days, not much about the bible or anything like that... Besides I don't really mind since they visit so rarely it's not really a nuisance.
On December 19 2012 06:50 farvacola wrote: Ever met a Jehovah's Witness? It gets worse, much worse lol.
We actually have this regular couple that visit us every now and then, they're really nice once you get past all the religious stuff, actually visited them once to have a cup of tea. So they're not all that bad, only about 95% are.
How do you... do that?
I mean, that's their job, basically. That's why they came, right? They're salesmen. Perhaps nice salesmen, but they still want to sell you their religion.
They don't get paid for it, they have regular jobs, the woman keeps a bookstore and her husband is a construction engineer, they're regular people and we talk about tons of other stuff these days, not much about the bible or anything like that... Besides I don't really mind since they visit so rarely it's not really a nuisance.
Also Prae did you know that Mormons don't even give out real bibles, they give only copies of Book of Mormon which has really nothing to do with the bible.
That sucks. Cold calling on people is so awful. Salesmen used to knock on my door before we moved house and I just didn't have the ability to get them to go away. I felt really bad when they'd get all their stuff out and show it to me over about fifteen minutes and I'd go 'oh I don't think so, bye!'
What's worse is that those people came to your house as ambassadors to their religion, and behaved so poorly.
I used to get door-to-door Scientologists where I lived in California (there was a church right down the street). Say what you want about the Mormons and Jehova's Witnesses, but at least they send well-dressed young adults to sell you their religion. The Scientologists, on the other hand, sent decrepit old men that I couldn't help but feel sorry for. They probably spent every penny of their retirements ridding their bodies of thetans and were reduced to going door-to-door to pay for their next audits.
On December 19 2012 07:27 Cokefreak wrote: Also Prae did you know that Mormons don't even give out real bibles, they give only copies of Book of Mormon which has really nothing to do with the bible.
There's some pretty good evidence for it.
Of course, the real question is: What is a real bible? There's no original, and they've all been edited heavily. Thoughts?
On December 19 2012 07:27 Cokefreak wrote: Also Prae did you know that Mormons don't even give out real bibles, they give only copies of Book of Mormon which has really nothing to do with the bible.
It does copy so many phrases from the bible it hurts the eyes, so that's one way in which the two are related.
I don't feel much sympathy for this situation the OP describes, really. In the end, you had to dismiss a few people twice because you were stupid and filled out a form online. It is well within my imagination that worse things might happen
Hi, I'm a Mormon. News flash: Yes, some Mormons are dorks.
Using my detective skills on this situation, the fact that your mother saw two people, one of which was small, and you saw three, all of which were large, makes me think that you delt with two different groups, and group 1 didn't relay the message to group 2.
Of course, maybe they did, and these guys were just dorks.
On December 19 2012 08:35 hazdur wrote: Hi, I'm a Mormon. News flash: Yes, some Mormons are dorks.
Using my detective skills on this situation, the fact that your mother saw two people, one of which was small, and you saw three, all of which were large, makes me think that you delt with two different groups, and group 1 didn't relay the message to group 2.
Of course, maybe they did, and these guys were just dorks.
On December 19 2012 07:27 Cokefreak wrote: Also Prae did you know that Mormons don't even give out real bibles, they give only copies of Book of Mormon which has really nothing to do with the bible.
Of course, the real question is: What is a real bible? There's no original, and they've all been edited heavily. Thoughts?
Wow thats an interesting video. But yea, the Bible and the book of Mormons cannot be compared.
Bible has been debated throughout the early church and ended with an final version I think in Nicea year 325 with high reability on the texts coming from the right schools of tradition and from the right age. Though it had already been widly accepted for a long time the basics of the new testament canon. You should read early church history Very interesting
I actually got a book of Mormon a few years ago from two friendly Mormon dudes, one was from the States and the other from Russia IIRC, took a look at the book, read a bit from the start, hard to take seriously, some of the stuff in there was just way over the top.
On December 19 2012 08:47 Cokefreak wrote: I actually got a book of Mormon a few years ago from two friendly Mormon dudes, one was from the States and the other from Russia IIRC, took a look at the book, read a bit from the start, hard to take seriously, some of the stuff in there was just way over the top.
Because objectively the bible is much less farfetched, right?
On December 19 2012 08:47 Cokefreak wrote: I actually got a book of Mormon a few years ago from two friendly Mormon dudes, one was from the States and the other from Russia IIRC, took a look at the book, read a bit from the start, hard to take seriously, some of the stuff in there was just way over the top.
Because objectively the bible is much less farfetched, right?
I'm mostly referring to the whole Joseph Smith thing, I'm not religious in any way. But you do have a point.
On December 19 2012 08:54 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 19 2012 08:47 Cokefreak wrote: I actually got a book of Mormon a few years ago from two friendly Mormon dudes, one was from the States and the other from Russia IIRC, took a look at the book, read a bit from the start, hard to take seriously, some of the stuff in there was just way over the top.
Because objectively the bible is much less farfetched, right?
I'm mostly referring to the whole Joseph Smith thing, I'm not religious in any way. But you do have a point.
As far as I'm concerned, outlandish fiction that has survived for thousands of years is simply worth more attention and respect than outlandish fiction from less than 200 years ago that reeks of an ill-conceived attempt at passing off polygamy. But perhaps that's just me.
Totally worth it IMO. I mean, you almost got a free Bible.
and not just any Bible, the Holy Bible, it's the best kind there is. Don't give up, this is just another trial by the Lord. What is turning away a few dozen mormons compared to endless enjoyable moments in front of the fireplace, learning the words of wisdom from the greatest product of literary genius ever handed down from the heavens by the Lord.
There is another way though, known by only a few: some newspapers have snippets of the bible in each issue. With a small effort and 0 cost you'll be able to put together your very own Bible, with zero mormons involved.
On December 19 2012 08:54 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 19 2012 08:47 Cokefreak wrote: I actually got a book of Mormon a few years ago from two friendly Mormon dudes, one was from the States and the other from Russia IIRC, took a look at the book, read a bit from the start, hard to take seriously, some of the stuff in there was just way over the top.
Because objectively the bible is much less farfetched, right?
I'm mostly referring to the whole Joseph Smith thing, I'm not religious in any way. But you do have a point.
As far as I'm concerned, outlandish fiction that has survived for thousands of years is simply worth more attention and respect than outlandish fiction from less than 200 years ago that reeks of an ill-conceived attempt at passing off polygamy. But perhaps that's just me.
What does age have to do with it?
I don't see how it's not just the same shit, in a different time period.
The only thing that matters is what is in the book, not how old the book is. If the book of mormon is more silly / evil / stupid / factually incorrect than a version of the normal bible, then it deserves less respect. But only because of its contents, not its age.
Personal note: Jehovah's Witnesses are FAR more persistent. Mormon's will actually go away, and even leave you alone for a few months. If you open a door once for a JW, you're fucked. The only effective way to get a JW to stop coming every week is to argue with them (calmly) and then wait for the thousands of opportunities they give you to leave them speechless. But it's exhausting to get to that point.
Mormons? Throw pity upon these young men, not rage. They're threatened with their celestial status if they do not go. Tithing is all but compulsory and yet you still have to pay to even go on a mission! For men, you really can't not go on your mission and stay in the church and not expect severe social backlash, not to mention the shame from your own family. Mormons are absurdly nosy about everyone's life from the congregation. They take the whole "brother/sister" prefixes much too far. You can say freedom of choice and use your brain and whatnot, but let me tell you, when you're raised in a very precise, calculated way, and they use the emotions and judgments against you, they make it tough to even speak a foul word, let alone walk away or say no.
On December 19 2012 10:10 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Personal note: Jehovah's Witnesses are FAR more persistent. Mormon's will actually go away, and even leave you alone for a few months. If you open a door once for a JW, you're fucked. The only effective way to get a JW to stop coming every week is to argue with them (calmly) and then wait for the thousands of opportunities they give you to leave them speechless. But it's exhausting to get to that point.
Mormons? Throw pity upon these young men, not rage. They're threatened with their celestial status if they do not go. Tithing is all but compulsory and yet you still have to pay to even go on a mission! For men, you really can't not go on your mission and stay in the church and not expect severe social backlash, not to mention the shame from your own family. Mormons are absurdly nosy about everyone's life from the congregation. They take the whole "brother/sister" prefixes much too far. You can say freedom of choice and use your brain and whatnot, but let me tell you, when you're raised in a very precise, calculated way, and they use the emotions and judgments against you, they make it tough to even speak a foul word, let alone walk away or say no.
Can you tell I was raised mormon yet? lol
You poor man. One of the only perks of being raised myself in post Mao China is the freedom and privilege knowing that my generation was raised with extremely minimalism religious influences as long as you are intelligent enough to see through the nationalist bull shit personality cult (which is pretty much everybody). If anything good came out of the cultural revolution it has to be the annihilation of religion (just because they were competition for Mao's personality cult, but nevertheless).
On December 19 2012 10:10 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Personal note: Jehovah's Witnesses are FAR more persistent. Mormon's will actually go away, and even leave you alone for a few months. If you open a door once for a JW, you're fucked. The only effective way to get a JW to stop coming every week is to argue with them (calmly) and then wait for the thousands of opportunities they give you to leave them speechless. But it's exhausting to get to that point.
Mormons? Throw pity upon these young men, not rage. They're threatened with their celestial status if they do not go. Tithing is all but compulsory and yet you still have to pay to even go on a mission! For men, you really can't not go on your mission and stay in the church and not expect severe social backlash, not to mention the shame from your own family. Mormons are absurdly nosy about everyone's life from the congregation. They take the whole "brother/sister" prefixes much too far. You can say freedom of choice and use your brain and whatnot, but let me tell you, when you're raised in a very precise, calculated way, and they use the emotions and judgments against you, they make it tough to even speak a foul word, let alone walk away or say no.
Can you tell I was raised mormon yet? lol
jack fucking mormon you mean. i see your handle is just a call for help from the oppressiveness of the doctrine and covenants.
On December 19 2012 07:02 Frits wrote: They actually sound like really nice and caring people, putting in a lot of effort just for you, maybe you should've responded to them like a decent human being instead of a complete jackass.
I sort of agree with this. What part of them was intimidating? Sounds like they showed up asked "What's up?" and you're like, get the hell outta here and slammed the door in their faces. This sounds like a complete overreaction to me on your part.
On December 19 2012 08:54 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 19 2012 08:47 Cokefreak wrote: I actually got a book of Mormon a few years ago from two friendly Mormon dudes, one was from the States and the other from Russia IIRC, took a look at the book, read a bit from the start, hard to take seriously, some of the stuff in there was just way over the top.
Because objectively the bible is much less farfetched, right?
I'm mostly referring to the whole Joseph Smith thing, I'm not religious in any way. But you do have a point.
As far as I'm concerned, outlandish fiction that has survived for thousands of years is simply worth more attention and respect than outlandish fiction from less than 200 years ago that reeks of an ill-conceived attempt at passing off polygamy. But perhaps that's just me.
What does age have to do with it?
I don't see how it's not just the same shit, different time period.
The only thing that matters is what is in the book, not how old the book is. If the book of mormon is more silly / evil / stupid / factually incorrect than a version of the normal bible, then it deserves less respect. But only because of its contents, not its age.
Well, in my opinion, one of the most useful frames of reference with which to behold the Bible, or any other religious text for that matter, is that which keeps the course of human history, society, and culture in mind. What I mean is that the Bible informs an incredible amount of Western historical procession, from moral logic to formal governmental progression to the concept that knowledge is valuable and worth pursuing, and accordingly I think understanding proper Biblical exegesis, be it secular or religious, helps to understand some of the roots of contemporary society. In fact, to put it in a certain sense, you and I, even though from entirely places and backgrounds, share a degree of familiarity that is necessarily entangled with the Bible via our respective cultural histories.
The book of Mormon carries with it no deep roots, no great story to tell in reference to the track of human history. No, instead it tells the tale of angry, marginalized polygamists who were willing to believe practically anything if that meant that they could feel ok about their self-superiority and odd proclivities. Mormonism's history and books speak for themselves in a way Christianity cannot, for they are not worth knowing for any other reason than their criticism or admiration. This all being said, I do not hold the beliefs of others against them and would never look down upon a Mormon simply for their faith, and I have personally known both admirable and contemptible followers. But, when a Mormon wants to talk comparative theology, I will not hold back.
On December 19 2012 10:10 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Personal note: Jehovah's Witnesses are FAR more persistent. Mormon's will actually go away, and even leave you alone for a few months. If you open a door once for a JW, you're fucked. The only effective way to get a JW to stop coming every week is to argue with them (calmly) and then wait for the thousands of opportunities they give you to leave them speechless. But it's exhausting to get to that point.
Mormons? Throw pity upon these young men, not rage. They're threatened with their celestial status if they do not go. Tithing is all but compulsory and yet you still have to pay to even go on a mission! For men, you really can't not go on your mission and stay in the church and not expect severe social backlash, not to mention the shame from your own family. Mormons are absurdly nosy about everyone's life from the congregation. They take the whole "brother/sister" prefixes much too far. You can say freedom of choice and use your brain and whatnot, but let me tell you, when you're raised in a very precise, calculated way, and they use the emotions and judgments against you, they make it tough to even speak a foul word, let alone walk away or say no.
Can you tell I was raised mormon yet? lol
You poor man. One of the only perks of being raised myself in post Mao China is the freedom and privilege knowing that my generation was raised with extremely minimalism religious influences as long as you are intelligent enough to see through the nationalist bull shit personality cult (which is pretty much everybody). If anything good came out of the cultural revolution it has to be the annihilation of religion (just because they were competition for Mao's personality cult, but nevertheless).
That doesn't really solve anything, North Korean refuges to South Korea are well documented to convert to some kind of religion with some fervor because they feel the need to fill in the void that was once occupied by the KJI cult of personality.
On December 19 2012 10:10 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Personal note: Jehovah's Witnesses are FAR more persistent. Mormon's will actually go away, and even leave you alone for a few months. If you open a door once for a JW, you're fucked. The only effective way to get a JW to stop coming every week is to argue with them (calmly) and then wait for the thousands of opportunities they give you to leave them speechless. But it's exhausting to get to that point.
Mormons? Throw pity upon these young men, not rage. They're threatened with their celestial status if they do not go. Tithing is all but compulsory and yet you still have to pay to even go on a mission! For men, you really can't not go on your mission and stay in the church and not expect severe social backlash, not to mention the shame from your own family. Mormons are absurdly nosy about everyone's life from the congregation. They take the whole "brother/sister" prefixes much too far. You can say freedom of choice and use your brain and whatnot, but let me tell you, when you're raised in a very precise, calculated way, and they use the emotions and judgments against you, they make it tough to even speak a foul word, let alone walk away or say no.
Can you tell I was raised mormon yet? lol
You poor man. One of the only perks of being raised myself in post Mao China is the freedom and privilege knowing that my generation was raised with extremely minimalism religious influences as long as you are intelligent enough to see through the nationalist bull shit personality cult (which is pretty much everybody). If anything good came out of the cultural revolution it has to be the annihilation of religion (just because they were competition for Mao's personality cult, but nevertheless).
That doesn't really solve anything, North Korean refuges to South Korea are well documented to convert to some kind of religion with some fervor because they feel the need to fill in the void that was once occupied by the KJI cult of personality.
Did you not read "as long as you are intelligent enough to see through the nationalist bull shit personality cult (which is pretty much everybody)", I don't need to fill the void of anything, I have enough superstition believing in good in humanity. North Korea is a very different story because it's STILL a personality cult, it's hardly the case in China since the 1980s. We had an entire generation from the 90s raised on basically no religious affliation who are extremely skeptical of the nationalist bull shit.
On December 19 2012 08:54 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 19 2012 08:47 Cokefreak wrote: I actually got a book of Mormon a few years ago from two friendly Mormon dudes, one was from the States and the other from Russia IIRC, took a look at the book, read a bit from the start, hard to take seriously, some of the stuff in there was just way over the top.
Because objectively the bible is much less farfetched, right?
I'm mostly referring to the whole Joseph Smith thing, I'm not religious in any way. But you do have a point.
As far as I'm concerned, outlandish fiction that has survived for thousands of years is simply worth more attention and respect than outlandish fiction from less than 200 years ago that reeks of an ill-conceived attempt at passing off polygamy. But perhaps that's just me.
What does age have to do with it?
I don't see how it's not just the same shit, different time period.
The only thing that matters is what is in the book, not how old the book is. If the book of mormon is more silly / evil / stupid / factually incorrect than a version of the normal bible, then it deserves less respect. But only because of its contents, not its age.
Well, in my opinion, one of the most useful frames of reference with which to behold the Bible, or any other religious text for that matter, is that which keeps the course of human history, society, and culture in mind. What I mean is that the Bible informs an incredible amount of Western historical procession, from moral logic to formal governmental progression to the concept that knowledge is valuable and worth pursuing, and accordingly I think understanding proper Biblical exegesis, be it secular or religious, helps to understand some of the roots of contemporary society. In fact, to put it in a certain sense, you and I, even though from entirely places and backgrounds, share a degree of familiarity that is necessarily entangled with the Bible via our respective cultural histories.
The book of Mormon carries with it no deep roots, no great story to tell in reference to the track of human history. No, instead it tells the tale of angry, marginalized polygamists who were willing to believe practically anything if that meant that they could feel ok about their self-superiority and odd proclivities. Mormonism's history and books speak for themselves in a way Christianity cannot, for they are not worth knowing for any other reason than their criticism or admiration. This all being said, I do not hold the beliefs of others against them and would never look down upon a Mormon simply for their faith, and I have personally known both admirable and contemptible followers. But, when a Mormon wants to talk comparative theology, I will not hold back.
i see someone didnt get any cookies from the mormons for christmas this year. bitter much?
No. Go away, you creeps. Get with the modern age and use internet to answer high schooler's emails, not three(!) pious hulks to my doorstep.
for the record, you can have your bible/B of M discussion online http://mormon.org/chat, but the church generally (and i'd say correctly) assumes the average person who clicks on their adds are going to be information illiterate and feel more comfortable talking to a person.
I think other people have already explained who the giant hulking young men were, nothing really new there. They generally are just regular college kids who've taken some time out of their lives to speak theology with others.
On December 19 2012 10:10 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Personal note: Jehovah's Witnesses are FAR more persistent. Mormon's will actually go away, and even leave you alone for a few months. If you open a door once for a JW, you're fucked. The only effective way to get a JW to stop coming every week is to argue with them (calmly) and then wait for the thousands of opportunities they give you to leave them speechless. But it's exhausting to get to that point.
Mormons? Throw pity upon these young men, not rage. They're threatened with their celestial status if they do not go. Tithing is all but compulsory and yet you still have to pay to even go on a mission! For men, you really can't not go on your mission and stay in the church and not expect severe social backlash, not to mention the shame from your own family. Mormons are absurdly nosy about everyone's life from the congregation. They take the whole "brother/sister" prefixes much too far. You can say freedom of choice and use your brain and whatnot, but let me tell you, when you're raised in a very precise, calculated way, and they use the emotions and judgments against you, they make it tough to even speak a foul word, let alone walk away or say no.
Can you tell I was raised mormon yet? lol
jack fucking mormon you mean. i see your handle is just a call for help from the oppressiveness of the doctrine and covenants.
You've always been my biggest critic
No, the teachings of the church itself are not oppressive (although are as absurd most beliefs), it's the culture that's the problem. Being mormon is a complete commitment of all your spare time and energy, not a see-you-next-Sunday kind of class. You are instructed to only have mormon friends, and if not, convert your non-mormon friends so now you don't have to feel bad about hanging out with non-mormons. Youth Firesides, Youth Conferences, Youth Dances, youth planning meetings, Boy Scouts, seminary (it's 5-day a week Bible school in high school, all four years), youth night, priesthood meeting, fast offerings, fasting, tithing, and temple work (oh Lord...). It went from, "Do good works" to "YOUR ASS IS FREE SPIRITUAL LABOR ON DEMAND"
I imagine it's even worse for the women, who still have shitload of work but stress the importance of being a good mormon wife and mother, since that's all they're allowed to do.
On December 19 2012 10:10 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Personal note: Jehovah's Witnesses are FAR more persistent. Mormon's will actually go away, and even leave you alone for a few months. If you open a door once for a JW, you're fucked. The only effective way to get a JW to stop coming every week is to argue with them (calmly) and then wait for the thousands of opportunities they give you to leave them speechless. But it's exhausting to get to that point.
Mormons? Throw pity upon these young men, not rage. They're threatened with their celestial status if they do not go. Tithing is all but compulsory and yet you still have to pay to even go on a mission! For men, you really can't not go on your mission and stay in the church and not expect severe social backlash, not to mention the shame from your own family. Mormons are absurdly nosy about everyone's life from the congregation. They take the whole "brother/sister" prefixes much too far. You can say freedom of choice and use your brain and whatnot, but let me tell you, when you're raised in a very precise, calculated way, and they use the emotions and judgments against you, they make it tough to even speak a foul word, let alone walk away or say no.
Can you tell I was raised mormon yet? lol
jack fucking mormon you mean. i see your handle is just a call for help from the oppressiveness of the doctrine and covenants.
You've always been my biggest critic
No, the teachings of the church itself are not oppressive (although are as absurd most beliefs), it's the culture that's the problem. Being mormon is a complete commitment of all your spare time and energy, not a see-you-next-Sunday kind of class. You are instructed to only have mormon friends, and if not, convert your non-mormon friends so now you don't have to feel bad about hanging out with non-mormons. Youth Firesides, Youth Conferences, Youth Dances, youth planning meetings, Boy Scouts, seminary (it's 5-day a week Bible school in high school, all four years), youth night, priesthood meeting, fast offerings, fasting, tithing, and temple work (oh Lord...). It went from, "Do good works" to "YOUR ASS IS FREE SPIRITUAL LABOR ON DEMAND"
I imagine it's even worse for the women, who still have shitload of work but stress the importance of being a good mormon wife and mother, since that's all they're allowed to do.
It's not oppression in the sense of a class struggle or one party subjugating another, but oppression in terms of ideology. You can apply the same definition of oppression and say that in alot of cases the middle class is oppressed into wallowing in mundane mediocrity and forced to work for no appreciable gain or progress from cradle to grave. The mormon ideology is definitely oppressive, any ideology that dictates how an individual has to act down to every minute detail is oppressive, even if the ideology's values are good.
On December 19 2012 10:32 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 19 2012 10:17 dAPhREAk wrote:
On December 19 2012 10:10 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Personal note: Jehovah's Witnesses are FAR more persistent. Mormon's will actually go away, and even leave you alone for a few months. If you open a door once for a JW, you're fucked. The only effective way to get a JW to stop coming every week is to argue with them (calmly) and then wait for the thousands of opportunities they give you to leave them speechless. But it's exhausting to get to that point.
Mormons? Throw pity upon these young men, not rage. They're threatened with their celestial status if they do not go. Tithing is all but compulsory and yet you still have to pay to even go on a mission! For men, you really can't not go on your mission and stay in the church and not expect severe social backlash, not to mention the shame from your own family. Mormons are absurdly nosy about everyone's life from the congregation. They take the whole "brother/sister" prefixes much too far. You can say freedom of choice and use your brain and whatnot, but let me tell you, when you're raised in a very precise, calculated way, and they use the emotions and judgments against you, they make it tough to even speak a foul word, let alone walk away or say no.
Can you tell I was raised mormon yet? lol
jack fucking mormon you mean. i see your handle is just a call for help from the oppressiveness of the doctrine and covenants.
You've always been my biggest critic
No, the teachings of the church itself are not oppressive (although are as absurd most beliefs), it's the culture that's the problem. Being mormon is a complete commitment of all your spare time and energy, not a see-you-next-Sunday kind of class. You are instructed to only have mormon friends, and if not, convert your non-mormon friends so now you don't have to feel bad about hanging out with non-mormons. Youth Firesides, Youth Conferences, Youth Dances, youth planning meetings, Boy Scouts, seminary (it's 5-day a week Bible school in high school, all four years), youth night, priesthood meeting, fast offerings, fasting, tithing, and temple work (oh Lord...). It went from, "Do good works" to "YOUR ASS IS FREE SPIRITUAL LABOR ON DEMAND"
I imagine it's even worse for the women, who still have shitload of work but stress the importance of being a good mormon wife and mother, since that's all they're allowed to do.
It's not oppression in the sense of a class struggle or one party subjugating another, but oppression in terms of ideology. You can apply the same definition of oppression and say that in alot of cases the middle class is oppressed into wallowing in mundane mediocrity and forced to work for no appreciable gain or progress from cradle to grave. The mormon ideology is definitely oppressive, any ideology that dictates how an individual has to act down to every minute detail is oppressive, even if the ideology's values are good.
Nonono you misunderstand. I was responding to daphreak who implied my entire schtick is based on being an oppressed mormon. I don't disagree with what you said, but my point was that the dogmatic interpretations of the Bible, Joe Smitty, and the BOM created a culture of eat-breathe-live mormons, when original ideas of the church (that changed on a dime, thanks to Joe's "infallibility") was of works and community and love (even if he was just some guy that wanted his own church and money, that's another discussion, I'm just saying it used to be about the positives). Sure, it was just a selling point. But a point we'd hope a God would endorse (before Joe went full megalomania. Dude made his own army and everything lol)
You know, it's kind of like the people that call themselves Christians. but obviously skipped the part of the bible where Jesus actually spoke. You know, the love, forgiveness, grace, charity. Fuck that, you have to follow OUR rules to get into heaven. Wear this, do this, drink this, don't touch yourself, and so on. At least some Christians are actually true to the name.
the actual text is completely in line w/ the king james version, the most commonly sold edition, while the hyperlinks are some doctrinal scholarly links that will be mormon biased, still useful for understanding jewish customs and such but probably not much else for you.
The book of Mormon carries with it no deep roots, no great story to tell in reference to the track of human history. No, instead it tells the tale of angry, marginalized polygamists who were willing to believe practically anything if that meant that they could feel ok about their self-superiority and odd proclivities. Mormonism's history and books speak for themselves in a way Christianity cannot, for they are not worth knowing for any other reason than their criticism or admiration. This all being said, I do not hold the beliefs of others against them and would never look down upon a Mormon simply for their faith, and I have personally known both admirable and contemptible followers. But, when a Mormon wants to talk comparative theology, I will not hold back.
I wont argue the cultural impact of the 2, the bible has clearly been the more important in that regard, but the book of mormon has literally nothing in it that promotes polygamy. Perhaps you should read the first and last few chapters for some context? It's supposed to be an early native American record, and it sticks fairly well.
On December 19 2012 08:54 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 19 2012 08:47 Cokefreak wrote: I actually got a book of Mormon a few years ago from two friendly Mormon dudes, one was from the States and the other from Russia IIRC, took a look at the book, read a bit from the start, hard to take seriously, some of the stuff in there was just way over the top.
Because objectively the bible is much less farfetched, right?
I'm mostly referring to the whole Joseph Smith thing, I'm not religious in any way. But you do have a point.
As far as I'm concerned, outlandish fiction that has survived for thousands of years is simply worth more attention and respect than outlandish fiction from less than 200 years ago that reeks of an ill-conceived attempt at passing off polygamy. But perhaps that's just me.
What does age have to do with it?
I don't see how it's not just the same shit, different time period.
The only thing that matters is what is in the book, not how old the book is. If the book of mormon is more silly / evil / stupid / factually incorrect than a version of the normal bible, then it deserves less respect. But only because of its contents, not its age.
Well, in my opinion, one of the most useful frames of reference with which to behold the Bible, or any other religious text for that matter, is that which keeps the course of human history, society, and culture in mind. What I mean is that the Bible informs an incredible amount of Western historical procession, from moral logic to formal governmental progression to the concept that knowledge is valuable and worth pursuing, and accordingly I think understanding proper Biblical exegesis, be it secular or religious, helps to understand some of the roots of contemporary society. In fact, to put it in a certain sense, you and I, even though from entirely places and backgrounds, share a degree of familiarity that is necessarily entangled with the Bible via our respective cultural histories.
The book of Mormon carries with it no deep roots, no great story to tell in reference to the track of human history. No, instead it tells the tale of angry, marginalized polygamists who were willing to believe practically anything if that meant that they could feel ok about their self-superiority and odd proclivities. Mormonism's history and books speak for themselves in a way Christianity cannot, for they are not worth knowing for any other reason than their criticism or admiration. This all being said, I do not hold the beliefs of others against them and would never look down upon a Mormon simply for their faith, and I have personally known both admirable and contemptible followers. But, when a Mormon wants to talk comparative theology, I will not hold back.
i see someone didnt get any cookies from the mormons for christmas this year. bitter much?
lol, admittedly a tad. I happened to have the pleasure of growing up alongside a Mormon whom I considered a very good friend, only to find out junior year of high school that he had repeatedly molested his sister and had both his family and the local Mormon church cover up his transgressions in the name of "repentance". By some fucked up turn of fate, I was included in one of the inner-faith counseling sessions put on by the Mormon church that were part of my friends "repentance" due to my having been such a close friend, and the 2 hours that followed were some of most trying of my entire life. Still, I try my best to hold nothing against any person, but the religion itself not so much.
You made a blog called "Mormons(and why I hate them)" so I'm gonna hate on some Mormons god dammit. :3
Not the biggest fan of any super religious people (go go spirituality without religion!), but it sounds like they were just being nice and doing their job. Did you talk to them much? Or did you really just close the door on them immediately? Did you ask for the Bible you ordered? I feel like you left some key stuff out of your blog. Its nice someone would take the time to come out and talk to someone who might be interested in talking and it doesn't sound like they just invited themselves in (or at least you didn't say that).
I have a friend who was raised Mormon, who does not think of himself as a Mormon nor did his brother, anyways his brother died of heroin overdose a few months ago and the head of their LDS church came to make sure their mom was alright. Tons of people from her church left food and treats at her house for like a week straight. Seems straight barbaric! They do seem to get into each others business a little bit but sometimes thats a good thing. Sometimes people don't want other people around at the same time they need them.
On December 19 2012 10:32 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 19 2012 10:17 dAPhREAk wrote:
On December 19 2012 10:10 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Personal note: Jehovah's Witnesses are FAR more persistent. Mormon's will actually go away, and even leave you alone for a few months. If you open a door once for a JW, you're fucked. The only effective way to get a JW to stop coming every week is to argue with them (calmly) and then wait for the thousands of opportunities they give you to leave them speechless. But it's exhausting to get to that point.
Mormons? Throw pity upon these young men, not rage. They're threatened with their celestial status if they do not go. Tithing is all but compulsory and yet you still have to pay to even go on a mission! For men, you really can't not go on your mission and stay in the church and not expect severe social backlash, not to mention the shame from your own family. Mormons are absurdly nosy about everyone's life from the congregation. They take the whole "brother/sister" prefixes much too far. You can say freedom of choice and use your brain and whatnot, but let me tell you, when you're raised in a very precise, calculated way, and they use the emotions and judgments against you, they make it tough to even speak a foul word, let alone walk away or say no.
Can you tell I was raised mormon yet? lol
jack fucking mormon you mean. i see your handle is just a call for help from the oppressiveness of the doctrine and covenants.
You've always been my biggest critic
No, the teachings of the church itself are not oppressive (although are as absurd most beliefs), it's the culture that's the problem. Being mormon is a complete commitment of all your spare time and energy, not a see-you-next-Sunday kind of class. You are instructed to only have mormon friends, and if not, convert your non-mormon friends so now you don't have to feel bad about hanging out with non-mormons. Youth Firesides, Youth Conferences, Youth Dances, youth planning meetings, Boy Scouts, seminary (it's 5-day a week Bible school in high school, all four years), youth night, priesthood meeting, fast offerings, fasting, tithing, and temple work (oh Lord...). It went from, "Do good works" to "YOUR ASS IS FREE SPIRITUAL LABOR ON DEMAND"
I imagine it's even worse for the women, who still have shitload of work but stress the importance of being a good mormon wife and mother, since that's all they're allowed to do.
It's not oppression in the sense of a class struggle or one party subjugating another, but oppression in terms of ideology. You can apply the same definition of oppression and say that in alot of cases the middle class is oppressed into wallowing in mundane mediocrity and forced to work for no appreciable gain or progress from cradle to grave. The mormon ideology is definitely oppressive, any ideology that dictates how an individual has to act down to every minute detail is oppressive, even if the ideology's values are good.
Nonono you misunderstand. I was responding to daphreak who implied my entire schtick is based on being an oppressed mormon. I don't disagree with what you said, but my point was that the dogmatic interpretations of the Bible, Joe Smitty, and the BOM created a culture of eat-breathe-live mormons, when original ideas of the church (that changed on a dime, thanks to Joe's "infallibility") was of works and community and love (even if he was just some guy that wanted his own church and money, that's another discussion, I'm just saying it used to be about the positives).
You know, it's kind of like the people that call themselves Christians. but obviously skipped the part of the bible where Jesus actually spoke. You know, the love, forgiveness, grace, charity. Fuck that, you have to follow OUR rules to get into heaven. Wear this, do this, drink this, don't touch yourself, and so on. At least some Christians are actually true to the name.
That's a pretty generalized statement... How many of those who champion modern free market economies even knows what Adam Smith referred to when he mentioned "invisible hand" in wealth of nations? How many of those who mindlessly defend the American constitution even knows the individual views of the founding fathers and the historical context? Any beliefs system gets bogged down overtime with corrupted bureaucracies and obscene misrepresentation for private gain.
On December 19 2012 10:44 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 19 2012 10:36 Caihead wrote:
On December 19 2012 10:32 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 19 2012 10:17 dAPhREAk wrote:
On December 19 2012 10:10 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Personal note: Jehovah's Witnesses are FAR more persistent. Mormon's will actually go away, and even leave you alone for a few months. If you open a door once for a JW, you're fucked. The only effective way to get a JW to stop coming every week is to argue with them (calmly) and then wait for the thousands of opportunities they give you to leave them speechless. But it's exhausting to get to that point.
Mormons? Throw pity upon these young men, not rage. They're threatened with their celestial status if they do not go. Tithing is all but compulsory and yet you still have to pay to even go on a mission! For men, you really can't not go on your mission and stay in the church and not expect severe social backlash, not to mention the shame from your own family. Mormons are absurdly nosy about everyone's life from the congregation. They take the whole "brother/sister" prefixes much too far. You can say freedom of choice and use your brain and whatnot, but let me tell you, when you're raised in a very precise, calculated way, and they use the emotions and judgments against you, they make it tough to even speak a foul word, let alone walk away or say no.
Can you tell I was raised mormon yet? lol
jack fucking mormon you mean. i see your handle is just a call for help from the oppressiveness of the doctrine and covenants.
You've always been my biggest critic
No, the teachings of the church itself are not oppressive (although are as absurd most beliefs), it's the culture that's the problem. Being mormon is a complete commitment of all your spare time and energy, not a see-you-next-Sunday kind of class. You are instructed to only have mormon friends, and if not, convert your non-mormon friends so now you don't have to feel bad about hanging out with non-mormons. Youth Firesides, Youth Conferences, Youth Dances, youth planning meetings, Boy Scouts, seminary (it's 5-day a week Bible school in high school, all four years), youth night, priesthood meeting, fast offerings, fasting, tithing, and temple work (oh Lord...). It went from, "Do good works" to "YOUR ASS IS FREE SPIRITUAL LABOR ON DEMAND"
I imagine it's even worse for the women, who still have shitload of work but stress the importance of being a good mormon wife and mother, since that's all they're allowed to do.
It's not oppression in the sense of a class struggle or one party subjugating another, but oppression in terms of ideology. You can apply the same definition of oppression and say that in alot of cases the middle class is oppressed into wallowing in mundane mediocrity and forced to work for no appreciable gain or progress from cradle to grave. The mormon ideology is definitely oppressive, any ideology that dictates how an individual has to act down to every minute detail is oppressive, even if the ideology's values are good.
Nonono you misunderstand. I was responding to daphreak who implied my entire schtick is based on being an oppressed mormon. I don't disagree with what you said, but my point was that the dogmatic interpretations of the Bible, Joe Smitty, and the BOM created a culture of eat-breathe-live mormons, when original ideas of the church (that changed on a dime, thanks to Joe's "infallibility") was of works and community and love (even if he was just some guy that wanted his own church and money, that's another discussion, I'm just saying it used to be about the positives).
You know, it's kind of like the people that call themselves Christians. but obviously skipped the part of the bible where Jesus actually spoke. You know, the love, forgiveness, grace, charity. Fuck that, you have to follow OUR rules to get into heaven. Wear this, do this, drink this, don't touch yourself, and so on. At least some Christians are actually true to the name.
That's a pretty generalized statement... How many of those who champion modern free market economies even knows what Adam Smith referred to when he mentioned "invisible hand" in wealth of nations? How many of those who mindlessly defend the American constitution even knows the individual views of the founding fathers and the historical context? Any beliefs system gets bogged down overtime with corrupted bureaucracies and obscene misrepresentation for private gain.
You made a blog called "Mormons(and why I hate them)" so I'm gonna hate on some Mormons god dammit. :3
Not the biggest fan of any super religious people (go go spirituality without religion!), but it sounds like they were just being nice and doing their job. Did you talk to them much? Or did you really just close the door on them immediately? Did you ask for the Bible you ordered? I feel like you left some key stuff out of your blog. Its nice someone would take the time to come out and talk to someone who might be interested in talking and it doesn't sound like they just invited themselves in (or at least you didn't say that).
I have a friend who was raised Mormon, who does not think of himself as a Mormon nor did his brother, anyways his brother died of heroin overdose a few months ago and the head of their LDS church came to make sure their mom was alright. Tons of people from her church left food and treats at her house for like a week straight. Seems straight barbaric! They do seem to get into each others business a little bit but sometimes thats a good thing. Sometimes people don't want other people around at the same time they need them.
Seems like every time people defend the values of religious association they forget that human beings are perfectly capable of having communities and having comradery and caring for each other with out religion, even more offensive is when they suggest that all human morality and capacity to care for each other has to have originated from their specific religion and that all atheists have to draw their humanity from their specific religion. I'm not attacking your statement but simply highlighting the fact that this is such a false assumption, atheists do not hate any group of people religious or not for community actions and charity and what so ever actions taken while not violating the freedoms of others, they take issue with the ideology itself.
On December 19 2012 10:44 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 19 2012 10:36 Caihead wrote:
On December 19 2012 10:32 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 19 2012 10:17 dAPhREAk wrote:
On December 19 2012 10:10 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Personal note: Jehovah's Witnesses are FAR more persistent. Mormon's will actually go away, and even leave you alone for a few months. If you open a door once for a JW, you're fucked. The only effective way to get a JW to stop coming every week is to argue with them (calmly) and then wait for the thousands of opportunities they give you to leave them speechless. But it's exhausting to get to that point.
Mormons? Throw pity upon these young men, not rage. They're threatened with their celestial status if they do not go. Tithing is all but compulsory and yet you still have to pay to even go on a mission! For men, you really can't not go on your mission and stay in the church and not expect severe social backlash, not to mention the shame from your own family. Mormons are absurdly nosy about everyone's life from the congregation. They take the whole "brother/sister" prefixes much too far. You can say freedom of choice and use your brain and whatnot, but let me tell you, when you're raised in a very precise, calculated way, and they use the emotions and judgments against you, they make it tough to even speak a foul word, let alone walk away or say no.
Can you tell I was raised mormon yet? lol
jack fucking mormon you mean. i see your handle is just a call for help from the oppressiveness of the doctrine and covenants.
You've always been my biggest critic
No, the teachings of the church itself are not oppressive (although are as absurd most beliefs), it's the culture that's the problem. Being mormon is a complete commitment of all your spare time and energy, not a see-you-next-Sunday kind of class. You are instructed to only have mormon friends, and if not, convert your non-mormon friends so now you don't have to feel bad about hanging out with non-mormons. Youth Firesides, Youth Conferences, Youth Dances, youth planning meetings, Boy Scouts, seminary (it's 5-day a week Bible school in high school, all four years), youth night, priesthood meeting, fast offerings, fasting, tithing, and temple work (oh Lord...). It went from, "Do good works" to "YOUR ASS IS FREE SPIRITUAL LABOR ON DEMAND"
I imagine it's even worse for the women, who still have shitload of work but stress the importance of being a good mormon wife and mother, since that's all they're allowed to do.
It's not oppression in the sense of a class struggle or one party subjugating another, but oppression in terms of ideology. You can apply the same definition of oppression and say that in alot of cases the middle class is oppressed into wallowing in mundane mediocrity and forced to work for no appreciable gain or progress from cradle to grave. The mormon ideology is definitely oppressive, any ideology that dictates how an individual has to act down to every minute detail is oppressive, even if the ideology's values are good.
Nonono you misunderstand. I was responding to daphreak who implied my entire schtick is based on being an oppressed mormon. I don't disagree with what you said, but my point was that the dogmatic interpretations of the Bible, Joe Smitty, and the BOM created a culture of eat-breathe-live mormons, when original ideas of the church (that changed on a dime, thanks to Joe's "infallibility") was of works and community and love (even if he was just some guy that wanted his own church and money, that's another discussion, I'm just saying it used to be about the positives).
You know, it's kind of like the people that call themselves Christians. but obviously skipped the part of the bible where Jesus actually spoke. You know, the love, forgiveness, grace, charity. Fuck that, you have to follow OUR rules to get into heaven. Wear this, do this, drink this, don't touch yourself, and so on. At least some Christians are actually true to the name.
That's a pretty generalized statement... How many of those who champion modern free market economies even knows what Adam Smith referred to when he mentioned "invisible hand" in wealth of nations? How many of those who mindlessly defend the American constitution even knows the individual views of the founding fathers and the historical context? Any beliefs system gets bogged down overtime with corrupted bureaucracies and obscene misrepresentation for private gain.
You made a blog called "Mormons(and why I hate them)" so I'm gonna hate on some Mormons god dammit. :3
Not the biggest fan of any super religious people (go go spirituality without religion!), but it sounds like they were just being nice and doing their job. Did you talk to them much? Or did you really just close the door on them immediately? Did you ask for the Bible you ordered? I feel like you left some key stuff out of your blog. Its nice someone would take the time to come out and talk to someone who might be interested in talking and it doesn't sound like they just invited themselves in (or at least you didn't say that).
I have a friend who was raised Mormon, who does not think of himself as a Mormon nor did his brother, anyways his brother died of heroin overdose a few months ago and the head of their LDS church came to make sure their mom was alright. Tons of people from her church left food and treats at her house for like a week straight. Seems straight barbaric! They do seem to get into each others business a little bit but sometimes thats a good thing. Sometimes people don't want other people around at the same time they need them.
Seems like every time people defend the values of religious association they forget that human beings are perfectly capable of having communities and having comradery and caring for each other with out religion, even more offensive is when they suggest that all human morality and capacity to care for each other has to have originated from their specific religion and that all atheists have to draw their humanity from their specific religion. I'm not attacking your statement but simply highlighting the fact that this is such a false assumption, atheists do not hate any group of people religious or not for community actions and charity and what so ever actions taken while not violating the freedoms of others, they take issue with the ideology itself.
Tell us more about these comparatively pure of heart and mind atheist folk
You made a blog called "Mormons(and why I hate them)" so I'm gonna hate on some Mormons god dammit. :3
Not the biggest fan of any super religious people (go go spirituality without religion!), but it sounds like they were just being nice and doing their job. Did you talk to them much? Or did you really just close the door on them immediately? Did you ask for the Bible you ordered? I feel like you left some key stuff out of your blog. Its nice someone would take the time to come out and talk to someone who might be interested in talking and it doesn't sound like they just invited themselves in (or at least you didn't say that).
I have a friend who was raised Mormon, who does not think of himself as a Mormon nor did his brother, anyways his brother died of heroin overdose a few months ago and the head of their LDS church came to make sure their mom was alright. Tons of people from her church left food and treats at her house for like a week straight. Seems straight barbaric! They do seem to get into each others business a little bit but sometimes thats a good thing. Sometimes people don't want other people around at the same time they need them.
Seems like every time people defend the values of religious association they forget that human beings are perfectly capable of having communities and having comradery and caring for each other with out religion, even more offensive is when they suggest that all human morality and capacity to care for each other has to have originated from their specific religion and that all atheists have to draw their humanity from their specific religion. I'm not attacking your statement but simply highlighting the fact that this is such a false assumption, atheists do not hate any group of people religious or not for community actions and charity and what so ever actions taken while not violating the freedoms of others, they take issue with the ideology itself.
Tell us more about these comparatively pure of heart and mind atheist folk
Hey man, I never said atheists were better, if anything atheists have the toughest time actually maintaining a correct moral course of action because they have to depend entirely on their own mental state and capacity to make rational decisions with out resorting to a community or ideology defined truism. I accept that and I accept that I'm more likely to be wrong, ill informed, and suffer as a consequence than if I'm not an atheist.
I always find it interesting to read this kind of stuff, I was raised one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Obviously there are good and bad people, sensible and less sensible, etc. in all organizations/religious groups. It is EXTREMELY ignorant of the organization as a whole for 3 large men to come to your door, that's just plainly wrong and I would be upset about it too. However, I can't believe you didn't think this through a little more thoroughly. Mormons and JW are both well known coming to your door with religious material, you really thought they would send you a bible with no follow-up? Definitely not how it works.
And seriously guys, if you don't want return visits from Mormons or JW when they come to your door, it's very simple to deal with it. You just politely inform them you're familiar with what they have to offer, and at this point would ask for no further visits. You have to specify that you don't want to be called on again. If they persist, just repeat yourself, and excuse yourself from the door. No need to waste their time or yours if you are not interested.
On December 19 2012 11:24 UndoneJin wrote: I always find it interesting to read this kind of stuff, I was raised one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Obviously there are good and bad people, sensible and less sensible, etc. in all organizations/religious groups. It is EXTREMELY ignorant of the organization as a whole for 3 large men to come to your door, that's just plainly wrong and I would be upset about it too. However, I can't believe you didn't think this through a little more thoroughly. Mormons and JW are both well known coming to your door with religious material, you really thought they would send you a bible with no follow-up? Definitely not how it works.
And seriously guys, if you don't want return visits from Mormons or JW when they come to your door, it's very simple to deal with it. You just politely inform them you're familiar with what they have to offer, and at this point would ask for no further visits. You have to specify that you don't want to be called on again. If they persist, just repeat yourself, and excuse yourself from the door. No need to waste their time or yours if you are not interested.
Wow no offense OP but you definitely seem like the dick in this story. I see you're still in high school, are you one of those easily-offended Richard Dawkins types of atheists?
I find it mildly amusing that the original poster HATES mormons with a FIERY PASSION because they promised him a free book, and instead gave him a visit.
You're either very weird, or you're abusing the word hate. Hatred should be reserved for much worse things. Religious examples include honour killings, the brainwashing and terrorizing of children, the oppression of women, and rape justified by religion.
On December 19 2012 13:01 iamho wrote: Wow no offense OP but you definitely seem like the dick in this story. I see you're still in high school, are you one of those easily-offended Richard Dawkins types of atheists?
No.
I'm mostly upset about the double visit by giant people.
are you sure you just don't like tall people? it sure sounds like if your visitors had been short instead there would be no problem. blessed is your life, for this to be something you feel so strongly about. grats
On December 19 2012 13:01 iamho wrote: Wow no offense OP but you definitely seem like the dick in this story. I see you're still in high school, are you one of those easily-offended Richard Dawkins types of atheists?
No.
I'm mostly upset about the double visit by giant people.
You could try requesting that they send smaller men to your door next time, though I don't think you'll be too successful if you specifically request women.
@farvacola: The Book of Mormon has far less polygamy than the Bible (Old Testamant). I don't remember any instances of the main people practicing it (maybe the people of Jared, i.e., the story in the Book of Ether), and I'm pretty sure some of them spoke out against it when it was not authorized. Feel free to correct, but: Abraham and his son and grandson were all about having kids through multiple women. I don't know if they were even considered wives or just concubines or whatever, but that's where the twelve tribes of Israel came from.
@DaPHreaK: "Muhana you ugly." Another cult Mormon film is called "Defiance," though it's super cheesy and uses the Danny Elfman Batman music.
OP, if you show a hint that you're an investigator of the church, you can expect missionaries to show up. Sometimes, they bring along a third person, whether it's an older guy helping out or a younger guy preparing for his mission.
Think of it like when they give "free" knives at some display in the mall or store. You have to listen to their spiel first
As to the specifics of your encounter, you obviously can't count on every person, Mormon or otherwise, to be on their best behavior 100% of the time, but it really sounds like you're overreacting.
JWs come to my house pretty frequently even though I tell them I'm not interested every time. What's more frustrating is that they always leave little pamphlets that are basically titled things like "we can help you actually enjoy your life!, "tired of living in poverty?" "you don't need to life without post-secondary education", etc. It's just very insulting that they think they know me just because I live in a lower-class part of town. To be frank, I'm happy with my job/education and love the place I live >.>
On December 19 2012 14:52 Grobyc wrote: JWs come to my house pretty frequently even though I tell them I'm not interested every time. What's more frustrating is that they always leave little pamphlets that are basically titled things like "we can help you actually enjoy your life!, "tired of living in poverty?" "you don't need to life without post-secondary education", etc. It's just very insulting that they think they know me just because I live in a lower-class part of town. To be frank, I'm happy with my job/education and love the place I live >.>
Yeah, I had this same feeling. I lived in a poorer area (just a few blocks up), and religious solicitors were rampant. Now I live in a less poor area (again, just a few blocks away) and not a knock.
And yeah, their "literature" is full of, "tired of your life sucking?" Gee, exploiting my fears and insecurities? You guys must have marketing degrees.
EDIT: and does anyone else love their depictions of heaven? My last pamphlet had a bunch of white people, flowers, a log cabin, a mountain view, trees, a valley, and a fucking tiger all in the same scene!
Hehehe Them "Mormons" are cleaver folk. Dat Advertising!
My name is Infested__Marine.
"I am a gamer, a college student, an athlete, and a Teamliquid forum poster. ... and I'm a Mormon! "
BOOM!
Haha The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They know their advertising.
Yeah they're all over buses in my area, too. I always notice in those particular ads, they don't use your average unattractive fat American. Hi, I watch TV all day and pretty much let my kids do what they want, maybe I'll yell at 'em but I try not to stand up. I eat McDonald's everyday. I'm also a fourth-generation welfare recipient... And I'm a Mormon.
On December 19 2012 11:24 UndoneJin wrote: I always find it interesting to read this kind of stuff, I was raised one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Obviously there are good and bad people, sensible and less sensible, etc. in all organizations/religious groups. It is EXTREMELY ignorant of the organization as a whole for 3 large men to come to your door, that's just plainly wrong and I would be upset about it too. However, I can't believe you didn't think this through a little more thoroughly. Mormons and JW are both well known coming to your door with religious material, you really thought they would send you a bible with no follow-up? Definitely not how it works.
And seriously guys, if you don't want return visits from Mormons or JW when they come to your door, it's very simple to deal with it. You just politely inform them you're familiar with what they have to offer, and at this point would ask for no further visits. You have to specify that you don't want to be called on again. If they persist, just repeat yourself, and excuse yourself from the door. No need to waste their time or yours if you are not interested.
its just a way of reaching out and putting a face to a name, I was a mormon for many years (I left due to personal reasons) a big part of the teachings of the church is to try and give everyone a chance to accept it if they want to...also a lot of missionaries come from across the country or even WORLD leaving behind their lives for 18-24 months to try and spread something that means a lot to them...if you began talking to someone about SC and they treated you with the same bitterness and anger that people treat missionaries...how would you react? (also Cokefreak yes they do give out real bibles they have them in their backpacks, next time you see one ask them I bet you $20 they have one) (and DarkPlasmaBall nah man most missionaries are 19-21 some people do serve missions when they get older but yeah...they have to PAY to do that not the other way around
sorry guys not trying to be an asshole but at the end of the day they are mostly super nice and even if you don't want to listen to what they have to say most are happy enough to just give you a bible and be on their way
Hey. Just wanted to say that I'm a Mormon. I like being a Mormon. If you don't want to be a Mormon, then don't be one. If one of our missionaries knocks on your door, the best thing you can do if you're not interested is tell them so in a polite way.
There's a lot of pretty bigoted stuff in this thread. You don't have to agree with others' religious beliefs, but can't we all just treat each other with kindness and respect? I guess I've grown to expect this sort of thing from the internet but it still makes me a little sad that we can't all just grow up a little.
On December 19 2012 13:01 iamho wrote: Wow no offense OP but you definitely seem like the dick in this story. I see you're still in high school, are you one of those easily-offended Richard Dawkins types of atheists?
No.
I'm mostly upset about the double visit by giant people.
LOL
think you just hate tall people, not Mormons hahahahah. And yea, tbh you sounded like you were the dick here lol
On December 19 2012 07:27 Cokefreak wrote: Also Prae did you know that Mormons don't even give out real bibles, they give only copies of Book of Mormon which has really nothing to do with the bible.
Not true, I gave out plenty of free bibles during my time as a mormon missionary.
Of course, the church always preferred to give out books of mormon, cause other churches don't have that, whereas the bible is everywhere. Focus on spreading the "new"s and not the "old"s, you know what i mean?
Oh, but don't get intimidated by mormon missionaries. They can't actually do anything to you, or they get fired :p
On December 19 2012 13:01 iamho wrote: Wow no offense OP but you definitely seem like the dick in this story. I see you're still in high school, are you one of those easily-offended Richard Dawkins types of atheists?
No.
I'm mostly upset about the double visit by giant people.
On December 19 2012 08:54 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 19 2012 08:47 Cokefreak wrote: I actually got a book of Mormon a few years ago from two friendly Mormon dudes, one was from the States and the other from Russia IIRC, took a look at the book, read a bit from the start, hard to take seriously, some of the stuff in there was just way over the top.
Because objectively the bible is much less farfetched, right?
I'm mostly referring to the whole Joseph Smith thing, I'm not religious in any way. But you do have a point.
As far as I'm concerned, outlandish fiction that has survived for thousands of years is simply worth more attention and respect than outlandish fiction from less than 200 years ago that reeks of an ill-conceived attempt at passing off polygamy. But perhaps that's just me.
What does age have to do with it?
I don't see how it's not just the same shit, in a different time period.
The only thing that matters is what is in the book, not how old the book is. If the book of mormon is more silly / evil / stupid / factually incorrect than a version of the normal bible, then it deserves less respect. But only because of its contents, not its age.
Polygamy versus No sex for priest. Aliens versus resurection etc...
I think it is not a good way to approach the problem. All religion have REALLY silly/stupid/factually incorrect things, or fairy tales/miracles/heaven-hell etc... You are not forced to believe everything that is written. It is a bit pointless and ridiculous to say that one is worse than the other one. Believe what you want but don't think your beliefs are better than others. (despite what your religion might say: I was stunned to see in a jewish brochure "be good with everyone even if they are not following the right path (i.e not jewish)")
On December 19 2012 07:02 Frits wrote: They actually sound like really nice and caring people, putting in a lot of effort just for you, maybe you should've responded to them like a decent human being instead of a complete jackass.
They should have at least emailed me before sending three football players after my mom had made it clear that they were not to visit again.
They should apologize for being tall. And for trying to deliver the Bible you requested. And for not slipping it into you mailbox anyway after you told them to go away.
On December 19 2012 08:54 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 19 2012 08:47 Cokefreak wrote: I actually got a book of Mormon a few years ago from two friendly Mormon dudes, one was from the States and the other from Russia IIRC, took a look at the book, read a bit from the start, hard to take seriously, some of the stuff in there was just way over the top.
Because objectively the bible is much less farfetched, right?
I'm mostly referring to the whole Joseph Smith thing, I'm not religious in any way. But you do have a point.
As far as I'm concerned, outlandish fiction that has survived for thousands of years is simply worth more attention and respect than outlandish fiction from less than 200 years ago that reeks of an ill-conceived attempt at passing off polygamy. But perhaps that's just me.
What does age have to do with it?
I don't see how it's not just the same shit, different time period.
The only thing that matters is what is in the book, not how old the book is. If the book of mormon is more silly / evil / stupid / factually incorrect than a version of the normal bible, then it deserves less respect. But only because of its contents, not its age.
Well, in my opinion, one of the most useful frames of reference with which to behold the Bible, or any other religious text for that matter, is that which keeps the course of human history, society, and culture in mind. What I mean is that the Bible informs an incredible amount of Western historical procession, from moral logic to formal governmental progression to the concept that knowledge is valuable and worth pursuing, and accordingly I think understanding proper Biblical exegesis, be it secular or religious, helps to understand some of the roots of contemporary society. In fact, to put it in a certain sense, you and I, even though from entirely places and backgrounds, share a degree of familiarity that is necessarily entangled with the Bible via our respective cultural histories.
The book of Mormon carries with it no deep roots, no great story to tell in reference to the track of human history. No, instead it tells the tale of angry, marginalized polygamists who were willing to believe practically anything if that meant that they could feel ok about their self-superiority and odd proclivities. Mormonism's history and books speak for themselves in a way Christianity cannot, for they are not worth knowing for any other reason than their criticism or admiration. This all being said, I do not hold the beliefs of others against them and would never look down upon a Mormon simply for their faith, and I have personally known both admirable and contemptible followers. But, when a Mormon wants to talk comparative theology, I will not hold back.
The Book of Mormon tells the tale of marginalized angry polygamists?
Maybe, if you haven't read a book, you shouldn't pretend to know what it says and then pontificate about its merit. Or at least take five minutes to look it up on Wikipedia so you don't sound like a COMPLETE idiot..
On December 19 2012 07:02 Frits wrote: They actually sound like really nice and caring people, putting in a lot of effort just for you, maybe you should've responded to them like a decent human being instead of a complete jackass.
They should have at least emailed me before sending three football players after my mom had made it clear that they were not to visit again.
On December 19 2012 08:54 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 19 2012 08:47 Cokefreak wrote: I actually got a book of Mormon a few years ago from two friendly Mormon dudes, one was from the States and the other from Russia IIRC, took a look at the book, read a bit from the start, hard to take seriously, some of the stuff in there was just way over the top.
Because objectively the bible is much less farfetched, right?
I'm mostly referring to the whole Joseph Smith thing, I'm not religious in any way. But you do have a point.
As far as I'm concerned, outlandish fiction that has survived for thousands of years is simply worth more attention and respect than outlandish fiction from less than 200 years ago that reeks of an ill-conceived attempt at passing off polygamy. But perhaps that's just me.
What does age have to do with it?
I don't see how it's not just the same shit, different time period.
The only thing that matters is what is in the book, not how old the book is. If the book of mormon is more silly / evil / stupid / factually incorrect than a version of the normal bible, then it deserves less respect. But only because of its contents, not its age.
Well, in my opinion, one of the most useful frames of reference with which to behold the Bible, or any other religious text for that matter, is that which keeps the course of human history, society, and culture in mind. What I mean is that the Bible informs an incredible amount of Western historical procession, from moral logic to formal governmental progression to the concept that knowledge is valuable and worth pursuing, and accordingly I think understanding proper Biblical exegesis, be it secular or religious, helps to understand some of the roots of contemporary society. In fact, to put it in a certain sense, you and I, even though from entirely places and backgrounds, share a degree of familiarity that is necessarily entangled with the Bible via our respective cultural histories.
The book of Mormon carries with it no deep roots, no great story to tell in reference to the track of human history. No, instead it tells the tale of angry, marginalized polygamists who were willing to believe practically anything if that meant that they could feel ok about their self-superiority and odd proclivities. Mormonism's history and books speak for themselves in a way Christianity cannot, for they are not worth knowing for any other reason than their criticism or admiration. This all being said, I do not hold the beliefs of others against them and would never look down upon a Mormon simply for their faith, and I have personally known both admirable and contemptible followers. But, when a Mormon wants to talk comparative theology, I will not hold back.
The Book of Mormon tells the tale of marginalized angry polygamists?
Maybe, if you haven't read a book, you shouldn't pretend to know what it says and then pontificate about its merit. Or at least take five minutes to look it up on Wikipedia so you don't sound like a COMPLETE idiot..
I apologize for being vague, I was referencing the background in which the text was written; the day after the book of Mormon was published, a host of converts showed up, many of which were polygamists, Christian magicians, or flat out criminals. In fact, Smith himself had evaded charges from employees of his then defunct treasure hunting company that he had embezzled and skipped out on paying anyone anything, which is part of the reason why the Mormon church continuously moved westward (though the local mobs who arose wherever the Mormons went didn't help).
I'll let the actual content of the book of Mormon speak for itself, but the fact that a great number of Mormonism's earliest members were former devotees of then famed polygamist Jacob Cochran speaks volumes as to the intent and velocity of the early Mormon church.
I use to be mormon, so I understand the sentiment, but you are completely overreacting. I understand they're annoying, but you brought this upon yourself by GIVING them your information on their website. You are honestly getting mad about something stupid you did. I know they may have deceived you by saying "free bible" and they usually give people free bibles, but the whole point of the website was from the to get in contact with you about your beliefs and how some dude who came up with a few wild ideas will change your life.
You can call the church, and have your name removed from their lists. I assure you they will come again, so you might as well call now because you're just going to get more annoyed by the sounds of it.
On December 19 2012 08:54 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 19 2012 08:47 Cokefreak wrote: I actually got a book of Mormon a few years ago from two friendly Mormon dudes, one was from the States and the other from Russia IIRC, took a look at the book, read a bit from the start, hard to take seriously, some of the stuff in there was just way over the top.
Because objectively the bible is much less farfetched, right?
I'm mostly referring to the whole Joseph Smith thing, I'm not religious in any way. But you do have a point.
As far as I'm concerned, outlandish fiction that has survived for thousands of years is simply worth more attention and respect than outlandish fiction from less than 200 years ago that reeks of an ill-conceived attempt at passing off polygamy. But perhaps that's just me.
What does age have to do with it?
I don't see how it's not just the same shit, different time period.
The only thing that matters is what is in the book, not how old the book is. If the book of mormon is more silly / evil / stupid / factually incorrect than a version of the normal bible, then it deserves less respect. But only because of its contents, not its age.
Well, in my opinion, one of the most useful frames of reference with which to behold the Bible, or any other religious text for that matter, is that which keeps the course of human history, society, and culture in mind. What I mean is that the Bible informs an incredible amount of Western historical procession, from moral logic to formal governmental progression to the concept that knowledge is valuable and worth pursuing, and accordingly I think understanding proper Biblical exegesis, be it secular or religious, helps to understand some of the roots of contemporary society. In fact, to put it in a certain sense, you and I, even though from entirely places and backgrounds, share a degree of familiarity that is necessarily entangled with the Bible via our respective cultural histories.
The book of Mormon carries with it no deep roots, no great story to tell in reference to the track of human history. No, instead it tells the tale of angry, marginalized polygamists who were willing to believe practically anything if that meant that they could feel ok about their self-superiority and odd proclivities. Mormonism's history and books speak for themselves in a way Christianity cannot, for they are not worth knowing for any other reason than their criticism or admiration. This all being said, I do not hold the beliefs of others against them and would never look down upon a Mormon simply for their faith, and I have personally known both admirable and contemptible followers. But, when a Mormon wants to talk comparative theology, I will not hold back.
The Book of Mormon tells the tale of marginalized angry polygamists?
Maybe, if you haven't read a book, you shouldn't pretend to know what it says and then pontificate about its merit. Or at least take five minutes to look it up on Wikipedia so you don't sound like a COMPLETE idiot..
I apologize for being vague, I was referencing the background in which the text was written; the day after the book of Mormon was published, a host of converts showed up, many of which were polygamists, Christian magicians, or flat out criminals. In fact, Smith himself had evaded charges from employees of his then defunct treasure hunting company that he had embezzled and skipped out on paying anyone anything, which is part of the reason why the Mormon church continuously moved westward (though the local mobs who arose wherever the Mormons went didn't help).
I'll let the actual content of the book of Mormon speak for itself, but the fact that a great number of Mormonism's earliest members were former devotees of then famed polygamist Jacob Cochran speaks volumes as to the intent and velocity of the early Mormon church.
You were not vague, you were very specific, and you were wrong. Dont try to pretend like you were talking about something else. You got caught flying off the handle when you were making things up.
On December 19 2012 08:54 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 19 2012 08:47 Cokefreak wrote: I actually got a book of Mormon a few years ago from two friendly Mormon dudes, one was from the States and the other from Russia IIRC, took a look at the book, read a bit from the start, hard to take seriously, some of the stuff in there was just way over the top.
Because objectively the bible is much less farfetched, right?
I'm mostly referring to the whole Joseph Smith thing, I'm not religious in any way. But you do have a point.
As far as I'm concerned, outlandish fiction that has survived for thousands of years is simply worth more attention and respect than outlandish fiction from less than 200 years ago that reeks of an ill-conceived attempt at passing off polygamy. But perhaps that's just me.
What does age have to do with it?
I don't see how it's not just the same shit, different time period.
The only thing that matters is what is in the book, not how old the book is. If the book of mormon is more silly / evil / stupid / factually incorrect than a version of the normal bible, then it deserves less respect. But only because of its contents, not its age.
Well, in my opinion, one of the most useful frames of reference with which to behold the Bible, or any other religious text for that matter, is that which keeps the course of human history, society, and culture in mind. What I mean is that the Bible informs an incredible amount of Western historical procession, from moral logic to formal governmental progression to the concept that knowledge is valuable and worth pursuing, and accordingly I think understanding proper Biblical exegesis, be it secular or religious, helps to understand some of the roots of contemporary society. In fact, to put it in a certain sense, you and I, even though from entirely places and backgrounds, share a degree of familiarity that is necessarily entangled with the Bible via our respective cultural histories.
The book of Mormon carries with it no deep roots, no great story to tell in reference to the track of human history. No, instead it tells the tale of angry, marginalized polygamists who were willing to believe practically anything if that meant that they could feel ok about their self-superiority and odd proclivities. Mormonism's history and books speak for themselves in a way Christianity cannot, for they are not worth knowing for any other reason than their criticism or admiration. This all being said, I do not hold the beliefs of others against them and would never look down upon a Mormon simply for their faith, and I have personally known both admirable and contemptible followers. But, when a Mormon wants to talk comparative theology, I will not hold back.
The Book of Mormon tells the tale of marginalized angry polygamists?
Maybe, if you haven't read a book, you shouldn't pretend to know what it says and then pontificate about its merit. Or at least take five minutes to look it up on Wikipedia so you don't sound like a COMPLETE idiot..
I apologize for being vague, I was referencing the background in which the text was written; the day after the book of Mormon was published, a host of converts showed up, many of which were polygamists, Christian magicians, or flat out criminals. In fact, Smith himself had evaded charges from employees of his then defunct treasure hunting company that he had embezzled and skipped out on paying anyone anything, which is part of the reason why the Mormon church continuously moved westward (though the local mobs who arose wherever the Mormons went didn't help).
I'll let the actual content of the book of Mormon speak for itself, but the fact that a great number of Mormonism's earliest members were former devotees of then famed polygamist Jacob Cochran speaks volumes as to the intent and velocity of the early Mormon church.
You were not vague, you were very specific, and you were wrong. Dont try to pretend like you were talking about something else. You got caught flying off the handle when you were making things up.
Nah, if you read the paragraph before, you'll see I was discussing historical context specifically, not scriptural content.
Well, in my opinion, one of the most useful frames of reference with which to behold the Bible, or any other religious text for that matter, is that which keeps the course of human history, society, and culture in mind
If you'd like to debate specifics contained within the Book of Mormon, I'll gladly join you.
On December 19 2012 14:52 Grobyc wrote: JWs come to my house pretty frequently even though I tell them I'm not interested every time. What's more frustrating is that they always leave little pamphlets that are basically titled things like "we can help you actually enjoy your life!, "tired of living in poverty?" "you don't need to life without post-secondary education", etc. It's just very insulting that they think they know me just because I live in a lower-class part of town. To be frank, I'm happy with my job/education and love the place I live >.>
Yeah, I had this same feeling. I lived in a poorer area (just a few blocks up), and religious solicitors were rampant. Now I live in a less poor area (again, just a few blocks away) and not a knock.
And yeah, their "literature" is full of, "tired of your life sucking?" Gee, exploiting my fears and insecurities? You guys must have marketing degrees.
EDIT: and does anyone else love their depictions of heaven? My last pamphlet had a bunch of white people, flowers, a log cabin, a mountain view, trees, a valley, and a fucking tiger all in the same scene!
JW's don't believe in ascension to heaven after death, rather what you were seeing was the Earth restored to paradise after armageddon.
As far as them preaching more in poor areas, that is probably true. Generally, higher income communities (at least where I live) are generally heavily Catholic or are highly educated/atheist, neither of which leads to much desire for spiritually themed information.
Comparing anecdotes about the prior belifs of some early Mormon converts with the way the Bible has shaped our cultures today TOTALLY makes sense. Also, you have read the Book of Mormon and your comments about polygamy do not contradict that so there is no need to discuss it any further.
I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to anyone my comments may have offended. I didn't realize how dickish all of my posts in this thread are.
On December 20 2012 08:39 farvacola wrote: I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to anyone my comments may have offended. I didn't realize how dickish all of my posts in this thread are.
Oh don't bring in that preemptive hollow PR apologetic nonsense in here. We're not in the General Forum here; we can relax.
On December 20 2012 08:39 farvacola wrote: I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to anyone my comments may have offended. I didn't realize how dickish all of my posts in this thread are.
Oh don't bring in that preemptive hollow PR apologetic nonsense in here. We're not in the General Forum here; we can relax.
Haha, fair enough, though my words are only semi hollow because this would not be the first time my vehement anti Mormonism got me into trouble.
On December 20 2012 08:44 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 20 2012 08:39 farvacola wrote: I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to anyone my comments may have offended. I didn't realize how dickish all of my posts in this thread are.
Oh don't bring in that preemptive hollow PR apologetic nonsense in here. We're not in the General Forum here; we can relax.
Haha, fair enough, though my words are only semi hollow because this would not be the first time my vehement anti Mormonism got me into trouble.
actually, i kind of read your posts like how i listen to the crazy guy yelling at a tree in the park. so, its all good.
On December 20 2012 08:44 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 20 2012 08:39 farvacola wrote: I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to anyone my comments may have offended. I didn't realize how dickish all of my posts in this thread are.
Oh don't bring in that preemptive hollow PR apologetic nonsense in here. We're not in the General Forum here; we can relax.
Haha, fair enough, though my words are only semi hollow because this would not be the first time my vehement anti Mormonism got me into trouble.
actually, i kind of read your posts like how i listen to the crazy guy yelling at a tree in the park. so, its all good.
I think you'll find that trees are far more bearable to speak with than most humans.
On December 20 2012 08:44 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 20 2012 08:39 farvacola wrote: I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to anyone my comments may have offended. I didn't realize how dickish all of my posts in this thread are.
Oh don't bring in that preemptive hollow PR apologetic nonsense in here. We're not in the General Forum here; we can relax.
Haha, fair enough, though my words are only semi hollow because this would not be the first time my vehement anti Mormonism got me into trouble.
actually, i kind of read your posts like how i listen to the crazy guy yelling at a tree in the park. so, its all good.
At least I can paint with all the colors of the wind!
On December 20 2012 08:44 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On December 20 2012 08:39 farvacola wrote: I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to anyone my comments may have offended. I didn't realize how dickish all of my posts in this thread are.
Oh don't bring in that preemptive hollow PR apologetic nonsense in here. We're not in the General Forum here; we can relax.
Haha, fair enough, though my words are only semi hollow because this would not be the first time my vehement anti Mormonism got me into trouble.
actually, i kind of read your posts like how i listen to the crazy guy yelling at a tree in the park. so, its all good.
At least I can paint with all the colors of the wind!
On December 19 2012 06:50 farvacola wrote: Ever met a Jehovah's Witness? It gets worse, much worse lol.
Short thread-steal from me.
Someone knocked at my apartment door, and me being dumb enough to not look outside through the peephole first, I opened the door and got a long two or three minute lecture from some religious guy. He was trying to get me to lobby for him some kind of political agenda with some politician that they hate in the capital of my state. Instead of being direct and telling me just what political motives he had for me to lobby for, he went on a two or three minute ramble about trying to get me, an agnostic, to empathize with his belief system. But I had to interrupt...
"What Church are you with?" "Ah, we're Jehovah's Witnesses." "I see." [Door slam, door lock.]
Oh god no! Someone knocked on your door and you had to ask them to go away?! Definitely warrants hating an entire religion.
/sarcasm. Honestly though, Mormons are some of the most moral and decent people I've ever met. I never understood why such people receive so much hate, apart from the gay marriage excuse.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3817/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif)
