EPT
Chopin, me, and relearning the piano.
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
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meteorskunk
Canada546 Posts
I'm struck with the urge to tell you just to play with perfect timing and with a lot of heart no matter what song you play. You said yourself that some versions just do not have the same magic as others. I find what helps me improve as a musician is to play a very easy song but make sure it has that perfect "je ne said quoi". Make every note count and every not perfect. That is how i enter the flow state. The flow state is what helps you improve. If you have not heard of this, the basic premise is that there is a state people can enter where they are not thinking but just doing by instinct and it results in a superior performance. To achieve this state, people have found that the task must be just the right level of challenging. I fear chopin would not be just the right challenge. I mean i don't know much about piano but it doesn't take a genius to know that that is A LOT of notes in a short amoun to of time. I also read chopin was very particular about how piano ough to be played. He talked about it in terms of "texture" and "colour". So if you were me i would certainly say just do easy songs! it sucks practicing something over and over that is just too complicated. But remember to challenge yourself. I wish i knew other music to recommend but i don't. On guitar or banjo i really enjoy playing my own versions of stuff like the beatles and adding my own flavour. Good luck! | ||
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
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velvex
Germany226 Posts
To be honest, you probably had a really bad piano teacher if he/she let you "learn" pieces by looking at his/her hands for several years. Playing classical music and not learning to read sheet music at the same time is a no go and should never be done since it does not lead you anywhere. But you seem to have understood that by now, that's good. What was your level when you quit exactly? You only said you can't read music, but did you maybe gain any technique? Did you learn about the correct body and hand posture etc.? Since if you didn't, you definitely need to start taking lessons at some point (from a different teacher, of course). It's okay to try to learn a bit without lessons, like notes or some easier pieces, or to prove yourself that you've got enough motivation to learn, but in the long run there is too much you can potentially do wrong if you go without a teacher. Regarding Chopin, he has indeed not composed any pieces that are viable at beginner's level, alas. The easiest of all his works is probably this waltz, and that is, stylistically speaking, not even considered a "real" Chopin, but more of a standard salon piece of that time. The other stuff is only harder. Just google "easiest chopin pieces" if you want to get an impression. It's really just that; if you had this "crush" on, say, Bach, Beethoven, or Mozart, there would be a lot of stuff you could play after a short time. But trying to go right into Chopin because you don't have the motivation to play other stuff is a bit like wanting to be race driver, but not having the motivation to even get a standard driver's license. And by the way, at the time you would have learned your first Chopin piece without having played any other pieces before, you would already have wanted to play other composers--just because there are so many good ones out there. | ||
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
Edit: I remember learning Fur Elise if that gives you any idea of where I stopped. Didn't like the song tho :/ | ||
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farvacola
United States18834 Posts
On November 27 2012 04:10 Recognizable wrote: Well. I can read, very slowly however. Generally it was easier for me to not read. I did learn about hand and body posture and such. Let's say that I was on a level where if I continued on my very slow pace of learning because I practiced only hours a week I could've probably done pieces like chopin in 2/3 years or so. I know it's very hard and I expected it to atleast take a year or so. I only had to glance at the sheet music for that. I have played piano for atleast 3 years If I'm not mistaken. I really was just never motivated because I disliked a lot of the music I had to play. If I had to give one piece of advice, it would be to not skip out on sight reading with piano; in fact, it would probably be best if you focused primarily on getting your hands and your eyes on the same page, especially if Chopin is the sort of composer whose music you are going to want to play. The difference between pulling off personal accent and deliberate phrase shift a la tempo rubato and playing randomly/insecurely is inevitably a question of how familiar a player is with Chopin's composition style. | ||
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
On November 27 2012 04:19 farvacola wrote: If I had to give one piece of advice, it would be to not skip out on sight reading with piano; in fact, it would probably be best if you focused primarily on getting your hands and your eyes on the same page, especially if Chopin is the sort of composer whose music you are going to want to play. The difference between pulling off personal accent and deliberate phrase shift a la tempo rubato and playing randomly/insecurely is inevitably a question of how familiar a player is with Chopin's composition style. I was definitely planning to do everything proper this time. I already pestered my mum into calling someone who can tune(?) our piano. It's sad how our piano has become a piece of furniture. It's a 100 year old (grand?) C.Bechstein which was renovated. | ||
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Janaan
United States381 Posts
There are really no other Romantic composers, many of whom, while being perhaps simpler, sound much like Chopin, that you like? I'd suggest looking around a little more and learn to walk before you try to run. But whatever you do, I hope you're enjoying it, because that's what making music is really about! | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
There are plenty of reduced difficulty versions of popular pieces, Chopin included. They're usually abridged down to one or maybe two core melodies with a lot of the more intricate ornaments, harmonies, transitions, etc removed. Perhaps find some of those with which to learn the basics of technique and reading before moving on to Chopin proper? | ||
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
On November 27 2012 05:38 Janaan wrote: Ok, just a quick background on me so you know where I'm coming from, I've played piano for over 10 years and I also absolutely love Chopin (and most other Romantic composers). I just want to warn you. Chopin is notoriously difficult to make it sound right. It's only about half getting the notes and tempos right. The other half is purely the musician, and it's not something that can be taught. I know from experience, when I practiced and things didn't sound right I hated it. I loved being able to play the finished product, but the process to get there wasn't fun for me. Maybe it will be for you, I don't know. But I will say, with your amount of experience, even the easiest Chopin peice could take a long time to even just get it into your fingers, much less sounding the way you want it. If you really want to do this, make sure you aren't hating every minute of it, until you get it right many months down the road. There are really no other Romantic composers, many of whom, while being perhaps simpler, sound much like Chopin, that you like? I'd suggest looking around a little more and learn to walk before you try to run. But whatever you do, I hope you're enjoying it, because that's what making music is really about! Thanks for the advice, could you give me any idea for some of those pieces? I just remembered we should have a ton of classical music books somewhere, maybe I can look for something easier in those. | ||
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NeVeR
1352 Posts
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Preludes-Nocturnes-Waltzes-Schirmers/dp/0634099205/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353966088&sr=8-1&keywords=chopin sheet music It has all the "correct" fingerings written above the notes, which was extremely helpful. I practiced very diligently, following all the fingerings, and after a couple months I was able to play all of Prelude in E minor and Waltz in B minor quite well. I did not play and read the music, but rather I learned small portions of it bit by bit through memory. I started learning the Nocturne in E minor, but regrettably never finished learning it. From time to time I think about practicing again, though I'm so rusty now. | ||
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BrTarolg
United Kingdom3574 Posts
It took me about that long before i can now finally get the hang of the notes (notes only!) of fantasie impromptu But a long the way my favourite thing ever was each of those summers and after grade 4, was playing a bunch of chopin nocturnes. They were impossibly difficult and WAY out of my reach, but i persevered on them over and over again for hours at a time. It was the only time i really put any *proper* effort into piano For me personally, i was very good at feeling around the music. My sight reading was very poor, but i had fantastic muscle memory. So long as i learnt the piece and fingering correctly the *first* time, i would have no difficulties constantly practising bits until they flowed together nice. I would say if you're the kind of person who plays through muscle memory, then just make sure you learn the fingering and techniques correctly the first time around!. I don't know (remember) any scales or techniques etc. properly as it were, but years of practising studies and my lessons it's somewhere in the back of my head, built into my brain and fingers, so that when i do play it simply comes out naturally | ||
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3xtraordinary
United States11 Posts
Edit: http://www.free-scores.com/free-sheet-music.php?CATEGORIE=70&genre=&searchexact=Piano solo&ordrepar=clicks&imageField.x=0&imageField.y=0&divers=&search=chopin&niveau= ^For any of your sheet music needs. | ||
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kafkaesque
Germany2006 Posts
On November 27 2012 06:17 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: This might sound like blasphemy and I only bring it up because of your specific situation. There are plenty of reduced difficulty versions of popular pieces, Chopin included. They're usually abridged down to one or maybe two core melodies with a lot of the more intricate ornaments, harmonies, transitions, etc removed. Perhaps find some of those with which to learn the basics of technique and reading before moving on to Chopin proper? I don't see how that's blasphemous at all. That's really, really valuable advice, as I think the core of learning any instrument passionately is playing music that moves you. I'd rather play the most dumbed down, super-simplistic, transposed-to-be-around-middle-c moonlight sonata than any elaborate Bach piece out there. | ||
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Badfatpanda
United States9719 Posts
On November 27 2012 06:47 NeVeR wrote: Wow, I was actually kind of in the same situation as you a couple years ago. I had never even taken formal piano lessons, but I had a sudden impulse to learn Chopin. I purchased this sheet music book on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Preludes-Nocturnes-Waltzes-Schirmers/dp/0634099205/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353966088&sr=8-1&keywords=chopin sheet music It has all the "correct" fingerings written above the notes, which was extremely helpful. I practiced very diligently, following all the fingerings, and after a couple months I was able to play all of Prelude in E minor and Waltz in B minor quite well. I did not play and read the music, but rather I learned small portions of it bit by bit through memory. I started learning the Nocturne in E minor, but regrettably never finished learning it. From time to time I think about practicing again, though I'm so rusty now. I'd recommend that copy of Schirmers. An addendum though, that and the Mazurkas are literally the only copies of Schirmer piano music you should consider buying as a pianist ever. The overwhelming majority of their editions are complete crap  . Vocal music is good though.Back to the OP. Because Chopin never published his early piece, the majority of his posthumous publications are actually easier to play, and still sound quite lovely. Especially the C#m Nocturne. Some of the preludes are learnable as well but there's a depth of difficulty there so be careful which ones you go about learning. I generally teach 4/6/15 pretty early on. Some of the earlier Waltz's aren't too bad, and some of the Mazurka's are on the easy side as well. Chopin's a great gateway drug into piano literature. I really adored his music when I first started learning the piano and find myself still learning pieces here and there (working on the first ballade now...fuck the coda), but largely I find myself going back to Bach more and more. With Chopin it's necessary to always keep it in context and think of the narrative of the piece as you learn the notes, especially his later works, don't get bogged down to the notes on the page and look through it. edit: at previous post + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/png/surprised-gasp.png) | ||
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kafkaesque
Germany2006 Posts
On November 27 2012 09:08 Badfatpanda wrote: but largely I find myself going back to Bach more and more. edit: at previous post + Show Spoiler + If ever you'd had to endure a men's choir singing an hour of "The Passion of Matthew", or however the Matthäuspassion is called in English, you'd think differently. Bach is the number one composer featured in German church renditions and it makes you loathe Christianity as a whole. | ||
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NeVeR
1352 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + It's called "Saint Matthew's Passion" in English btw | ||
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BrTarolg
United Kingdom3574 Posts
On November 27 2012 09:02 3xtraordinary wrote: I was 18 when I decided to learn the piano as well. I had just started community college and was dumped by my high school girlfriend of some years. It was Beethoven's pathetique sonata that first captured me. I watched Freddy Kempf's rendition on youtube and decided, "Well if he can do it, it must be possible for me to do it as well." It took me 6 months to get to the first repeat because for every note I would have to count how many away from middle C it was and then check for any sharps or flats I would forget to account for. I would play for hours every day struggling with every note because I knew exactly what I wanted to hear from that piano and I didn't want to settle for any other sound; it was my obsession. Over the last few years I've repeated this pattern; each time improving in my technique and my ability to ready the music. After Pathetique I decided on chopin's nocturne in E flat, then his fantasie impromptu, gaining confidence in my playing and actually enjoying the monotonous hours of playing that rapid succession of notes or learning to trill because I was stubborn enough to see the end result. Even on my parent's out of tune piano, it sounded better than anything I'd heard played before because I played it. I sat through the process of learning something that was supposed to beyond my level. I think you'll get that same satisfaction and, because of your past experience, it may come easier to you or more quickly. In any sense; I urge you to go for it. On the out of tune piano note: Universities and even community colleges will have at least keyboards, but often full pianos for their music students to practice on. Try checking there if the tone bothers you too much. Edit: http://www.free-scores.com/free-sheet-music.php?CATEGORIE=70&genre=&searchexact=Piano solo&ordrepar=clicks&imageField.x=0&imageField.y=0&divers=&search=chopin&niveau= ^For any of your sheet music needs. Dude that's insane hahaha "3rd piece i learn't was fantasie impromptu np bro" Nice how no2 was the one i learned before fantasie too haha | ||
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