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brain teaser - Page 4

Blogs > Shady Sands
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Ota Solgryn
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark2011 Posts
November 22 2012 08:37 GMT
#61
On November 21 2012 23:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 22:46 Ota Solgryn wrote:
On November 21 2012 21:47 Rannasha wrote:
On November 21 2012 19:48 Ota Solgryn wrote:
On November 21 2012 06:40 Shady Sands wrote:
Imagine you have, at most, two identical rocks and a 100-floor building.

Using only the method of dropping a rock from a certain floor and seeing whether it will crack open or not, what is the least number of drop attempts you need to use to figure out the highest floor from which a rock, dropped, will not break?

1) Breaking is ordinal--a rock that breaks from a 60 floor etc. can be safely assumed to break from a 70 floor drop, etc.

Once you have calculated this for the 100-floor building, what is the answer for an n-floor building?


The least number of drops you need to use is 2. You drop the first rock from n+1 floor -> it breaks. You drop the next rock from n floor -> it doesn't break. So now you know the highest floor from which is doesn't break is the n floor.

Except you don't know what n is.

I did it this way becuase the question is the least number of drops.
Most people here seem to calculate what is the maximum number of drops you would need to use in the case you have the most optimal way of generally finding the highest floor of which the rock would be intact.


What you answered is the least number of drops you need to verify that the highest non-breaking-floor is n, when n is provided a priori. If n is not known, you need to the "best worst-case-scenario", which is what people have been calculating.


No, I provided the least number of drops you need if you make a lucky guess, I do not need to know n, nowhere does the question state that you could not make guess, and be lucky with that guess. Anyhow, I just answered it as was it a trick question, which to me it is, because of a vague formulation.


While I understand that possible ambiguity/ need to be clever, I'm also pretty sure that based on the context, you really understood that it wasn't a trick question. It means for any given floor, the fact that you're always looking to optimize your answer (not just "get lucky"), and the understanding that you can't risk both rocks breaking without knowing for a fact what the correct floor is. You can't just arbitrarily say, "I choose to pick the two perfect floors to give me the correct answer, meaning the answer's two", because you're incapable of knowing for sure that you'd pick those two ideal floors. You'd need to already know the answers, and then drop the rocks to reconfirm them. However, as the person dropping the rocks, you don't actually know yet what those ideal floors are.

I mean, after all, if you really want to be a dick about it, why not just say, "Well I was super lucky in my individual trial because the answer was "the rock breaks at the first floor" and I dropped my first rock on the first floor and it broke, and therefore I didn't even need the second rock. Answer's one." It's really missing the point of the brain teaser, because if it hadn't broken, I would have only eliminated one floor in one step, and I'd still have ninety-nine to go... and you simply can't work under the assumption that it will be the first floor, so it's silly to pick floor one to drop the first rock. It will be better for you (probability-wise) to drop the first rock at floor two at step one than at floor one.


Yeah, you're right, I was trying to be clever ;o) but my point still stands.
The least number of drops you would need to show the highest floor from which the rock will not drop is still 2, and here I do not assume that I know the floor, I assume the specific case in which a lucky guess was made. And this specific case would yield the result of least dropped rocks: 2.

Your last paragraph I also commented on, but I excluded this as the answer becuase if the rock breaks at the first floor then there is no floor from which the rock survives a drop and the answer is not 1 but null.
ihasaKAROT: "Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others"
Rannasha
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Netherlands2398 Posts
November 22 2012 09:30 GMT
#62
On November 22 2012 11:18 LockeTazeline wrote:
I think:

+ Show Spoiler +
Drop it from the midway point of the available floors, rounded up.

Longest solve (answer 1st floor):
-50 (break)
-25 (break)
-13 (break)
-7 (break)
-4 (break)
-2 (break)
-1 (break)

=7

Overall: Log 2 of n. (rounded up)


You only have 2 rocks you can break, not 7.
Such flammable little insects!
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