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On October 23 2012 06:12 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 01:09 Chill wrote:
Kickstarter is dumb to me because you have no investors to answer to. You have nothing to justify.
Where are the SC2 documentaries? Hell if I know. Does anybody? Pretty much how i feel about Kickstarter. Hey guys! Pay for me to live on vacation cause i love video games and am going to make a movie about video games. i know i could just go get a job and do this with my own money... but why do that when you morons will give me money for nothing! Kickstarter is for lazy bastards who want handouts and dont want to earn anything for themselves. Millions of video games have been made the conventional way, how did everyone else do it? Why were they able to do it, but you need hand outs and charity to do it? Going to start a Kickstarter and my pitch will be:Cause the real world sucks, working your whole life, 5 days a week so you can enjoy your 2 days a week off, is a TERRIBLE plan when you think about it. Help me fight the system by allowing me to live on vacation til i Die.... and ill make a movie about it and send you pictures of me on vacation... Kickstarter is everything that is wrong with people. People who are lazy, begging for money, and preying on the optimistic and naive.
Yeah, those dudes making Planetary Annihilation, FUCK LAZY BASTARDS, MAN! Those guys haven't even begun the first line of coding, FUCKING LAZY ASSHOLES! Oh, wait, they are actually making a lot of progress on the game...
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On October 20 2012 01:09 Chill wrote:
Kickstarter is dumb to me because you have no investors to answer to. You have nothing to justify.
Where are the SC2 documentaries? Hell if I know. Does anybody?
Like everything running on donations right ?
I have never seen you blaming the guys running tourneys where the advertizing revenue is donated to charitable organizations. Actually i'm pretty sure you have casted this kind of events already.
Same shit, they have nothing to justify too.
So it's cool and smart to give money to save the kids in Africa or fight cancer but it is dumb to give money to people who makes video games that you like ?
Doesn't make any sense to me lol.
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I don't see the problem.
A good project will be backed by the community as something they would like to see. Isn't that the best way to play into your target demographic? You know exactly what they support as the Kickstarter gives people who feel like donating to help out for more games. I prefer that over a massive venture capitalist to be honest. This way it's by the people, for the people.
It's simple really. If you don't pitch well to the audience then you don't get enough funding. It's much harder to convince consumers to put some money in to help out than it is to convince a venture capitalist, provided that your business plan is solid.
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Why Kickstarter is awesome?
People are often criticizing Kickstarter in the domain of game.
I understand why, it's all about promises and can it be delivered. People want a game to be enjoyable, most of the games dont provide even a prototype of the game play they want to offer.
Kickstarter becomes great when you have a design and you need scale to produce it.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/692213374/the-porthole
If you want this made, it would cost a lot to make few piece. Kickstarter allows to produce few thousands.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1499165518/ukiyo-e-heroes
This one... is very interesting and point out a little flow in kickstarter. The overfunding problem, when you plan for 10 000euro and get 30x the amount and your project depends on one person, well... Delays get longer, yet still the product is awesome, and as long as the old guy doesn't die, everything is fine. Updates on the progress have been very good. I loved the videos, and the scale of things when they receive the packing cardboards :D.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/539087245/spriter
Here is something else, a tool which would allow indie dev to make easily animation for their game. They had a very good prototype, yet stating that they'd build everything from zeroground. I tend to think that instead of promising more as the moneypool grew, they should had invested in development force, but this is smart. You can't promise that someone else will finish this for you if the money runs out. This is a bit of a get as far as you can with this money. And they are very far already with their latest release. Very good communication with users and testers. The community is forming.
Yet I only do gangnam style dances with their tools, need to learn a bit more about animation.
This is a gaming style, and games have made the biggest kickstarter projects, but they also bring the bad from gaming world. The reason why publisher are bitches is the same as the crowdfounder will be when few game project overpromise and underdeliver... Just don't mix kickstarter and game production amateurs...
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As someone who would like to make games in the future, the idea of Kickstarter is fantastic. Instead of having to spend at least 4 more years trying to save up hundreds of thousands of dollars to hire some programmers, buy ramen, adderall prescriptions, computer equipment, etc and all the other things needed to make a game. Instead of that, I can write a few paragraphs and show a video of what I want my game to be and people will GIVE ME that money to make it happen. It's actually sort of terrifying that if I wasn't a fat, lazy, unmotivated slob, I could actually make my dreams come true right now.
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Oh look someone who only thinks about money and shit. I'm not even going to bother going through the logical fallacies you used and I'm going to rate this joke as a 1/5.
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Well, this is pretty terrible 
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I also dont like the hype about kickstarter.
My main point is the one from Chill:
The kickstarter-guy can do whatever he wants with your money. It's gone forever (you cant charge back CCs indefinitely).
"Oh it still wasnt enough, we miscalculated, here's the buggy alpha version" is legal.
I also dislike the argument "Well, I'd pay 500$ to play this game!". Ok, good, so when they hit their goal, and even overshoot it, wouldn't it be better to only pay 50$?
Sure, if it's the difference between making and not making the game - pay 500. But if it's already sure they make it, they should offer an option to reduce your investment.
That said - there's a very limited usefulness. If you have a name in the industry and an (advanced and easy to realize) idea, but you know (or think) it's not worth it from a financial point. In those cases it's useful.
Throw up a kickstarter to i.e. reprint a product which is out of print.
But we had those models already prior to kickstarter - so meh.
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Hmmmmm.....
You have a point there.
If I were a kickstarter, I'd value the # of donations more than the amount of money donated, simply because, if a lot of people are willing to invest before a game becomes popular just from the concept, then when it sells, it will probably be even more popular.
Also, I if I were one to donate to such projects, I'd rather have any extra money, that is, money beyond the threshold for a "collector's edition" go towards decreasing the wait time until release. That is, the developers should say "If we raise $10k by tuesday, we'll aim to release the game 2 weeks earlier" kind of thing.
Kickstarter is nice though, no one really gets hurt if a project goes south before enough investment comes in.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 20 2012 01:09 Chill wrote:
Kickstarter is dumb to me because you have no investors to answer to. You have nothing to justify.
Where are the SC2 documentaries? Hell if I know. Does anybody?
While this is true, I think part of the reason that Kickstarter has been so successful in the gaming community is that there's such a huge disconnect nowadays between a game that satisfies its investors and what much of the community considers a good game. People are willing to gamble on a game that developers don't have to answer to anyone for because in their minds its not worse than one where they have to answer to investors that have absolutely no idea about the games anyway.
It's a question of which is worse: a game where the developers had to answer to no one? Or a game where they had to answer to Bobby Kotick?
On October 23 2012 06:12 MaestroSC wrote:
Millions of video games have been made the conventional way, how did everyone else do it? Why were they able to do it, but you need hand outs and charity to do it?
There are a lot of people who would argue that "the conventional way" doesn't produce good games anymore.
The thing is, there's not a whole lot of direct correlation these days between games coming out of big publishers and those games being good. There are a lot of games that get a lot of publisher money and turn out to be trash (and there's a big argument for this being in part because of the publisher or investors getting their hands mucked up in the project and hampering development with unrealistic deadlines or requirements like forcing multiplayer into a game where it makes no sense to have it). Conversely there are a lot of low-budget indie games that turn out very well and are very popular.
Kickstarter is a way to give those pretty good indie games the extra financial kick needed to turn them into something great. It's to formalize the process of games like Minecraft getting funded via donation/good will (and yes, I consider Minecraft's funding to be pretty much via donation because at the time when he started majorly getting handed money nobody had an idea yet how good the final product would be), so that we get more of those kinds of games off the ground--not just the ones that get lucky enough to get discovered. Obviously this entails some risk on the part of the spender, but that's for them to evaluate on their own.
On October 28 2012 05:02 Zocat wrote:
My main point is the one from Chill:
The kickstarter-guy can do whatever he wants with your money. It's gone forever (you cant charge back CCs indefinitely).
"Oh it still wasnt enough, we miscalculated, here's the buggy alpha version" is legal.
Even published games turn out like this, though. Dev can't meet the deadline, so they put out a buggy and unfinished final product. Obviously with those games you have the opportunity to wait for reviews and make a decision after knowing the game is buggy and unfinished, but I think a lot of the people who kickstarter things are those who would day 1 buy those games based on hype anyway, so to them there's no difference.
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