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+ Show Spoiler +PREFACE
This is an op-ed. I will most definitely give you my opinion of what you are doing with your money.
Dear Gamers, I have a bone to pick with Kickstarter.
IN THE PAST, a developer had all of two options to make their game-design dreams come true. Go it rough - live off your savings or the gratitude of your parents whilst creating your game, hoping that a publisher will pick it up down the road. Or, be a real businessman - going straight to the source and pitching your product to investors / publishers. Its a tough sell either way, especially in the modern world.
But regardless of the above. With those same investors, publishers, and banks, they usually all had one universal requirement - a return on investment. Enter Kickstarter.
Now, there are a lot of creative minds in the world - and truthfully, probably not enough monocle-wearing big wigs to throw money at all of them. Of course, that's even if they personally consider their projects worth any cent of a dollar. So let's turn to the millions of average joes around the world, and put that spare change lying under their couch to some good use.
Its a brilliant idea, and one I really do fully admire.
So what is my problem with Kickstarter? While the idea is grand, the physicals returns are zero. In Kickstarter's very FAQ, they exist, well, to help make dreams true. A noble cause indeed! A very selfish one at that too. That a developer can ask you to invest hundreds of dollars into their product and what you get in return in nowhere near such equivalent value.
Let's get some things out of the way first. Relating to gaming Kickstarters specifically, most are structured as the following:
$5 - Pay to have your name in the credits or some sort of small thank you.
$10 - Some kind of small, special ingame item.
$20+ - Some media, art, music, etc
$30 - Maybe a more significant ingame item
$50+ - Usually something physical (sent to your door) of art, music pieces, shirts, etc. Shipping extra.
$100 - Limited pieces of ... art, music, shirts, etc. Maybe a thank-you postcard.
$100-$200 - More extras ... DVDs, guides, etc.
$300+ - Special community recognition ... a special kickstarter forum badge!
$500 - Now we're talking. Some really high value art, Or music.
$1000 - Now we're talking. Even more. Maybe something in the game named after you!
$5000 - You must really love us. Maybe help design a character or item or something.
$10000 - You can meet us. In person. Travel expenses extra.
Before you scroll down in a rage and hit the reply button, yes, I did leave out the most significant reward. That you do get a copy of the game. $20 for smaller titles, $30-50 for larger titles. Collectors editions for larger pledges. That's where my love of Kickstarter ends. I give you $50 for the game, I get a game in a return. Its simple math. Simple business. Even for the aforementioned investors, publishers, banks. You give a developer hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars for their time and product, and in return, you earn the sales from selling it. Hell, even giving more money back to the developers through royalties from all that profit you're making for selling alot of copies.
So, dear developers, do you really think can I sit at my desk and look at my screen and try to convince myself that for you to just "give an NPC a name" costs a thousand dollars worth of time and effort?
I think actually, my problem isn't with Kickstarter itself, but with those people who do pledge those inglorious amounts of dollars. That you are unable to find the worth of dollars. That an NPC named Steve is more important to you than say, helping cancer research (oh right, don't forget you get tax slips on charitable donations!) Or maybe, you're just one of those hipsters who'll buy into any current fad, and there's no doubt regarding the popularity kickstarter has gained.
tldr; Kickstarter is a place for the ignorant, the selfish, and the self absorbed, all in one neat package. Terrible from a business sense but then, not many people have any. I have no beef if you are are just basically, pre-ordering..
Thank for you reading.
  
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I think actually, my problem isn't with Kickstarter itself, but with those people who do pledge those inglorious amounts of dollars. That you are unable to find the worth of dollars. That an NPC named Steve is more important to you than say, helping cancer research (oh right, don't forget you get tax slips on charitable donations!)
#1 You don't know what those people do with the rest of their money. Spending 1k$ on your (maybe) future favorite game and 100k$ on cancer research helps the cancer research more than spending 30$ on the kickstarter game and 10$ on the cancer research.
#2 It's their own money. There is always a way to invest better and more into the "greater good", yet (almost) none of us do it.
#3 The "bigger rewards" are worth as much as people spend on them. Why would you hate on a business model simply because it's... well... successful?
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Hong Kong9145 Posts
It's just a different philosophy. When seeking funding, you can either go to venture capital, which will demand a portion of your company in stock share as part of the deal or get a loan from a bank. You can now also go to kickstarter, which somewhat democratizes the funding process in that it allows for lower amounts of investment for entry, at the expense of not getting a percentage of share.
Let's be frank, the majority of levels of investment the everyday person is going to put into a kickstarter don't even come close to the funds that would be raised in a VC round per individual investor. People who do fund at higher levels on kickstarter are generally donating that money instead of investing.
At the end of the day it comes to the individual choice they make with their money. The more apt criticism of kickstarter would be to isolate the fact that people have come to think that funding a project is a guaranteed purchase, which is not the case. They are simply funding investment into a project that can fail, and for which they would have less protections than if they were VC.
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I think it is less so that people want to spend that extra 50 bucks on getting the next level of "reward", so much as they see an idea they love and want to support it. I know if I had money right now I would have totally backed Project Eternity, and depending on how much I had to spend I may have donated more than just enough to get the game. Why? Because I want to see the game funded, because I love the genre and really want to play something like it. Hell, just think of it as a gamers version of charity rather than a purchase. Yes, I get that there are charities for starving and homeless people etc. etc, but some of us just want to ensure that an amazing throwback to our childhood can be produced, and not just produced but done with an amazing level of content and amount of gameplay time. Does it take $1000 to name an NPC after some guy? No. Does it take a few hundred thousand to add a city the size of Baldur's Gate, with hundreds of hours of gameplay in it? Yeah, it probably does.
Don't judge people based on what they spend money on without knowing them and their motives for doing so. If I had a lot of money and could spend an extra $100 to support something I love and want to succeed, I would.
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On October 20 2012 00:33 a176 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +PREFACE
This is an op-ed. I will most definitely give you my opinion of what you are doing with your money.
Dear Gamers, I have a bone to pick with Kickstarter. IN THE PAST, a developer had all of two options to make their game-design dreams come true. Go it rough - live off your savings or the gratitude of your parents whilst creating your game, hoping that a publisher will pick it up down the road. Or, be a real businessman - going straight to the source and pitching your product to investors / publishers. Its a tough sell either way, especially in the modern world. But regardless of the above. With those same investors, publishers, and banks, they usually all had one universal requirement - a return on investment. Enter Kickstarter. Now, there are a lot of creative minds in the world - and truthfully, probably not enough monocle-wearing big wigs to throw money at all of them. Of course, that's even if they personally consider their projects worth any cent of a dollar. So let's turn to the millions of average joes around the world, and put that spare change lying under their couch to some good use. Its a brilliant idea, and one I really do fully admire. So what is my problem with Kickstarter? While the idea is grand, the physicals returns are zero. In Kickstarter's very FAQ, they exist, well, to help make dreams true. A noble cause indeed! A very selfish one at that too. That a developer can ask you to invest hundreds of dollars into their product and what you get in return in nowhere near such equivalent value. Let's get some things out of the way first. Relating to gaming Kickstarters specifically, most are structured as the following: $5 - Pay to have your name in the credits or some sort of small thank you. $10 - Some kind of small, special ingame item. $20+ - Some media, art, music, etc $30 - Maybe a more significant ingame item $50+ - Usually something physical (sent to your door) of art, music pieces, shirts, etc. Shipping extra. $100 - Limited pieces of ... art, music, shirts, etc. Maybe a thank-you postcard. $100-$200 - More extras ... DVDs, guides, etc. $300+ - Special community recognition ... a special kickstarter forum badge! $500 - Now we're talking. Some really high value art, Or music. $1000 - Now we're talking. Even more. Maybe something in the game named after you! $5000 - You must really love us. Maybe help design a character or item or something. $10000 - You can meet us. In person. Travel expenses extra. Before you scroll down in a rage and hit the reply button, yes, I did leave out the most significant reward. That you do get a copy of the game. $20 for smaller titles, $30-50 for larger titles. Collectors editions for larger pledges. That's where my love of Kickstarter ends. I give you $50 for the game, I get a game in a return. Its simple math. Simple business. Even for the aforementioned investors, publishers, banks. You give a developer hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars for their time and product, and in return, you earn the sales from selling it. Hell, even giving more money back to the developers through royalties from all that profit you're making for selling alot of copies. So, dear developers, do you really think can I sit at my desk and look at my screen and try to convince myself that for you to just "give an NPC a name" costs a thousand dollars worth of time and effort? I think actually, my problem isn't with Kickstarter itself, but with those people who do pledge those inglorious amounts of dollars. That you are unable to find the worth of dollars. That an NPC named Steve is more important to you than say, helping cancer research (oh right, don't forget you get tax slips on charitable donations!) Or maybe, you're just one of those hipsters who'll buy into any current fad, and there's no doubt regarding the popularity kickstarter has gained. tldr; Kickstarter is a place for the ignorant, the selfish, and the self absorbed, all in one neat package. Terrible from a business sense but then, not many people have any. I have no beef if you are are just basically, pre-ordering.. Thank for you reading.
In other words, you have a problem with how other people spend their own money. Did you seriously think you have a real argument? Value is determined by what people are willing to pay for it, and being righteous about someones finances is just wrong.
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On October 20 2012 00:52 KillerSOS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 00:33 a176 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +PREFACE
This is an op-ed. I will most definitely give you my opinion of what you are doing with your money.
Dear Gamers, I have a bone to pick with Kickstarter. IN THE PAST, a developer had all of two options to make their game-design dreams come true. Go it rough - live off your savings or the gratitude of your parents whilst creating your game, hoping that a publisher will pick it up down the road. Or, be a real businessman - going straight to the source and pitching your product to investors / publishers. Its a tough sell either way, especially in the modern world. But regardless of the above. With those same investors, publishers, and banks, they usually all had one universal requirement - a return on investment. Enter Kickstarter. Now, there are a lot of creative minds in the world - and truthfully, probably not enough monocle-wearing big wigs to throw money at all of them. Of course, that's even if they personally consider their projects worth any cent of a dollar. So let's turn to the millions of average joes around the world, and put that spare change lying under their couch to some good use. Its a brilliant idea, and one I really do fully admire. So what is my problem with Kickstarter? While the idea is grand, the physicals returns are zero. In Kickstarter's very FAQ, they exist, well, to help make dreams true. A noble cause indeed! A very selfish one at that too. That a developer can ask you to invest hundreds of dollars into their product and what you get in return in nowhere near such equivalent value. Let's get some things out of the way first. Relating to gaming Kickstarters specifically, most are structured as the following: $5 - Pay to have your name in the credits or some sort of small thank you. $10 - Some kind of small, special ingame item. $20+ - Some media, art, music, etc $30 - Maybe a more significant ingame item $50+ - Usually something physical (sent to your door) of art, music pieces, shirts, etc. Shipping extra. $100 - Limited pieces of ... art, music, shirts, etc. Maybe a thank-you postcard. $100-$200 - More extras ... DVDs, guides, etc. $300+ - Special community recognition ... a special kickstarter forum badge! $500 - Now we're talking. Some really high value art, Or music. $1000 - Now we're talking. Even more. Maybe something in the game named after you! $5000 - You must really love us. Maybe help design a character or item or something. $10000 - You can meet us. In person. Travel expenses extra. Before you scroll down in a rage and hit the reply button, yes, I did leave out the most significant reward. That you do get a copy of the game. $20 for smaller titles, $30-50 for larger titles. Collectors editions for larger pledges. That's where my love of Kickstarter ends. I give you $50 for the game, I get a game in a return. Its simple math. Simple business. Even for the aforementioned investors, publishers, banks. You give a developer hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars for their time and product, and in return, you earn the sales from selling it. Hell, even giving more money back to the developers through royalties from all that profit you're making for selling alot of copies. So, dear developers, do you really think can I sit at my desk and look at my screen and try to convince myself that for you to just "give an NPC a name" costs a thousand dollars worth of time and effort? I think actually, my problem isn't with Kickstarter itself, but with those people who do pledge those inglorious amounts of dollars. That you are unable to find the worth of dollars. That an NPC named Steve is more important to you than say, helping cancer research (oh right, don't forget you get tax slips on charitable donations!) Or maybe, you're just one of those hipsters who'll buy into any current fad, and there's no doubt regarding the popularity kickstarter has gained. tldr; Kickstarter is a place for the ignorant, the selfish, and the self absorbed, all in one neat package. Terrible from a business sense but then, not many people have any. I have no beef if you are are just basically, pre-ordering.. Thank for you reading. In other words, you have a problem with how other people spend their own money. Did you seriously think you have a real argument? Value is determined by what people are willing to pay for it, and being righteous about someones finances is just wrong.
Which is why I stated at the top - this is an op-ed piece. Thank you for not reading.
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I really wouldn't mind fighting a boss named "Dave" or "Steve" for a change. Kinda tired of "supreme death king being of pwn "
After all, it's their money and if it helps fund a game that I might like, I don't really mind it.
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On October 20 2012 00:59 a176 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 00:52 KillerSOS wrote:On October 20 2012 00:33 a176 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +PREFACE
This is an op-ed. I will most definitely give you my opinion of what you are doing with your money.
Dear Gamers, I have a bone to pick with Kickstarter. IN THE PAST, a developer had all of two options to make their game-design dreams come true. Go it rough - live off your savings or the gratitude of your parents whilst creating your game, hoping that a publisher will pick it up down the road. Or, be a real businessman - going straight to the source and pitching your product to investors / publishers. Its a tough sell either way, especially in the modern world. But regardless of the above. With those same investors, publishers, and banks, they usually all had one universal requirement - a return on investment. Enter Kickstarter. Now, there are a lot of creative minds in the world - and truthfully, probably not enough monocle-wearing big wigs to throw money at all of them. Of course, that's even if they personally consider their projects worth any cent of a dollar. So let's turn to the millions of average joes around the world, and put that spare change lying under their couch to some good use. Its a brilliant idea, and one I really do fully admire. So what is my problem with Kickstarter? While the idea is grand, the physicals returns are zero. In Kickstarter's very FAQ, they exist, well, to help make dreams true. A noble cause indeed! A very selfish one at that too. That a developer can ask you to invest hundreds of dollars into their product and what you get in return in nowhere near such equivalent value. Let's get some things out of the way first. Relating to gaming Kickstarters specifically, most are structured as the following: $5 - Pay to have your name in the credits or some sort of small thank you. $10 - Some kind of small, special ingame item. $20+ - Some media, art, music, etc $30 - Maybe a more significant ingame item $50+ - Usually something physical (sent to your door) of art, music pieces, shirts, etc. Shipping extra. $100 - Limited pieces of ... art, music, shirts, etc. Maybe a thank-you postcard. $100-$200 - More extras ... DVDs, guides, etc. $300+ - Special community recognition ... a special kickstarter forum badge! $500 - Now we're talking. Some really high value art, Or music. $1000 - Now we're talking. Even more. Maybe something in the game named after you! $5000 - You must really love us. Maybe help design a character or item or something. $10000 - You can meet us. In person. Travel expenses extra. Before you scroll down in a rage and hit the reply button, yes, I did leave out the most significant reward. That you do get a copy of the game. $20 for smaller titles, $30-50 for larger titles. Collectors editions for larger pledges. That's where my love of Kickstarter ends. I give you $50 for the game, I get a game in a return. Its simple math. Simple business. Even for the aforementioned investors, publishers, banks. You give a developer hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars for their time and product, and in return, you earn the sales from selling it. Hell, even giving more money back to the developers through royalties from all that profit you're making for selling alot of copies. So, dear developers, do you really think can I sit at my desk and look at my screen and try to convince myself that for you to just "give an NPC a name" costs a thousand dollars worth of time and effort? I think actually, my problem isn't with Kickstarter itself, but with those people who do pledge those inglorious amounts of dollars. That you are unable to find the worth of dollars. That an NPC named Steve is more important to you than say, helping cancer research (oh right, don't forget you get tax slips on charitable donations!) Or maybe, you're just one of those hipsters who'll buy into any current fad, and there's no doubt regarding the popularity kickstarter has gained. tldr; Kickstarter is a place for the ignorant, the selfish, and the self absorbed, all in one neat package. Terrible from a business sense but then, not many people have any. I have no beef if you are are just basically, pre-ordering.. Thank for you reading. In other words, you have a problem with how other people spend their own money. Did you seriously think you have a real argument? Value is determined by what people are willing to pay for it, and being righteous about someones finances is just wrong. Which is why I stated at the top - this is an op-ed piece. Thank you for not reading.
Claiming that a certain post or article is your own opinion doesn't make it immune to public criticism when you decide to publish it.
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Calgary25951 Posts
Kickstarter is dumb to me because you have no investors to answer to. You have nothing to justify.
Where are the SC2 documentaries? Hell if I know. Does anybody?
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Blog about Kickstarter that isn't actually about Kickstarter and does not even have a good point. Try better next time please
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If I give Obsidian 500$ it's not to get some piece of art, it's because I love these guys as they have produced games I have spent countless hours on during my teenagehood and I want to support them and I get some doodads as a bonus.
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It is reasonable to think that if getting to name an NPC in a video game were cheaper then yeah it would start costing a lot more time and effort. Imagine how much time a developer would spend not developing the game if millions of people paid for their own NPC. They're not giving you that option in order to convince you to spend that much. They're giving you that option as appreciation for spending that much.
It's not "this reward is important to me", it's "this project is important to me".
As for Kickstarter I think the good outweighs the bad. Video game companies these days want rehashes because they are already proven to sell. New ideas are often brushed aside. Sonic the Hedgehog comes to mind here as that game was declined by Namco way back in the day. That game was a new idea but it sold big and is still very popular today. That's what Kickstarter makes easier to do.
A lot of people including myself are fed up with Call of Battlefield: Medal of Orchestra and would spend more than your average price tag for something new. Sometimes Kickstarter provides that option. That's all it boils down to.
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FTL was made because of kickstarter, if people have money and they want to use it to help a developer make a video game then who cares? I don't see what there is to get so upset about when it comes to how other people are spending their money, especially when they are donating it to see something being created. Some old rich dude is gonna pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to take some young girls virginity and yet THIS is what you are up in arms about? IDK man, sounds petty to me.
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Some people 'donate' a bunch of money to Kickstarter, others buy fast cars, yachts, and big houses. What is your problem with Kickstarter - that people think it is charity?
PS: Why u bein' so hipster about Kickstarter?
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Sounds more like your the one with no business sense. Also if you ever spend money on something you enjoy you are a hypocrite, because "that money could've gone to cancer research".
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I don't know why you have such a problem with people blowing off money like that. Granted I understand where you're coming from, I used to be like you, chastising people for 'wasteful' spending but now I just think "Who the fuck cares?". Its their money, they earned it (one way or another) and they get to spend it how they like. Let those people boost their ego and increase their narcissism. Letting it bother you is wasted emotion and effort on your part.
I do think the kickstarter model is pretty smart though. It allows you to capture the extra money from those who are willing to pay. Instead of a flat fee for a game they can give 'rewards' to those who want it and have the cash. Not to mention its money upfront; the time value of money is very important.
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Look at it that way.
I have grown playing and loving Monkey Islands, Maniac Mansions, Full Throttle, Grim Fandango, Psychonauts.
Half of those I have pirated.
Now I have a choice to get and to give much more. I don't care about the risk. It's my time to give back. Though the rewards are awesome, I am not here because of what I will get, but because the work of those people have made my life better.
From an investment point of view, you get the final game for 20 but if it went the traditional publishing way, you'd be paying double. You have a fair return on investment. You even get more for your investement if the goals are exceeded as they will make more yet you have not to pay a penny more. If your Prince of Persia game sells for 400% profit, the guys get to bath in your money, here they get to invest more. Let them bath after if they can even sell.
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On October 20 2012 01:09 Chill wrote:
Kickstarter is dumb to me because you have no investors to answer to. You have nothing to justify.
Where are the SC2 documentaries? Hell if I know. Does anybody?
Pretty much how i feel about Kickstarter.
Hey guys! Pay for me to live on vacation cause i love video games and am going to make a movie about video games. i know i could just go get a job and do this with my own money... but why do that when you morons will give me money for nothing!
Kickstarter is for lazy bastards who want handouts and dont want to earn anything for themselves.
Millions of video games have been made the conventional way, how did everyone else do it? Why were they able to do it, but you need hand outs and charity to do it?
Going to start a Kickstarter and my pitch will be:Cause the real world sucks, working your whole life, 5 days a week so you can enjoy your 2 days a week off, is a TERRIBLE plan when you think about it. Help me fight the system by allowing me to live on vacation til i Die.... and ill make a movie about it and send you pictures of me on vacation...
Kickstarter is everything that is wrong with people. People who are lazy, begging for money, and preying on the optimistic and naive.
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I'm excited for when we get out first shitty game from kickstarter. Could you imagine dropping 5k on a kickstarter just to have the game be shit when it comes out in 2 years? It's going to be glorious.
Then again, I'm also the asshole that pays less than a dollar for indie bundles. I like to watch the world burn.
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There's good and bad. I think the chances and the magnitude of the bad are greater than the good, though. With Kickstarter the developers don't have to cater to big wig investors so they can make it as intense, difficult, mature, etc as it needs to be to make what they envision is a great game. We have some potential to get some amazing games out of it.
Of course, the negative is that the game could flop with minimal effort put in by the developers. People would lose on their investment (since the only possible return would be time spent playing an amazing game) and we'd have a crappy game.
But I'm a fan of Kickstarter because here's how I look at it: there are a large number of games at least starting development from it and I'm not wasting my money funding any of them, other people are doing that. If 99% of those games flop then I don't care. I lose nothing. But there's a chance that one or two new games will come of it that will just blow me away because of some rare, extremely talented, unrestricted developers. That's worth it to me.
If other people want to donate/risk their money for these games, I'm alright with it.
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EPT
