• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 12:48
CET 18:48
KST 02:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book9Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info6herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)9Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win2RSL Season 4 announced for March-April7Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0
StarCraft 2
General
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Clem wins HomeStory Cup 28 HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) WardiTV Mondays $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 512 Overclocked The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth Mutation # 510 Safety Violation
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Gypsy to Korea BW General Discussion Liquipedia.net NEEDS editors for Brood War
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Diablo 2 thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread EVE Corporation Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Play, Watch, Drink: Esports …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1667 users

Question

Blogs > ultrakiss
Post a Reply
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-18 17:38:12
October 18 2012 17:36 GMT
#1
Why can't mutas and hydras be buffed and infestors nerfed? Would a non root fungal make zvz muta wars like in BW? And would a buffed muta break zvp?

Mutas are the most micro friendly zerg unit (I could be wrong). They're also more exciting to watch than infestor/roach play generally. Seeing muta play is much more intense and nerve racking for spectators, but its also much weaker than going infestor in most cases.

However, they are pretty much figured out in zvt right now. Whenever I see a zerg player win with mutas it's really impressive since it seems so hard to win that way unless you have a huge advantage (i.e. they failed cheesing so they're already behind).

In zvz, mutas get shutdown hard by infestors. I don't like muta wars, so I would like some way to keep the matchup from turning into that. Right now I feel like if you couldn't root and chain fungal the mutas they would be too hard to deal with in zvz. Thats why maybe a hydra health buff would make them a good counter?

Any change to mutas would probably be rough for zvp, but I dont really ever play toss or go mutas against them. I do watch alot of sc2 though, and you used to see SUPER heavy muta base race play alot of the time. Now its pretty rare. Would a muta buff make this style too strong? Or would it be manageable now that toss knows how to deal with it better + phoenix buff from before?

*I don't think a hydra buff would really hurt zvp or zvt since hydras are still not very good even in HOTS (from what I've seen).

Im honestly asking just because Im sure theres a reason things are the way they are, its just not apparent to me

*
P7GAB
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada486 Posts
October 18 2012 20:12 GMT
#2
buffed mutas would break zvp, but it would be cool to see hydras buffed
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
October 18 2012 20:40 GMT
#3
Could you elaborate please? I figured that was the reason but what specifically would make a buff broken? Also, why weren't mutas broken in BW (I didn't watch much competitive BW but from what I have seen/played/read mutas always seemed stronger).
EffervescentAureola
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States410 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-18 21:40:12
October 18 2012 21:37 GMT
#4
I don't know what you mean, but in BW mutes relied on numbers, like many Zerg units. The advantage of mutes is that they are fast, can attack both air and land, and good for harass because of stacking. 1 muta is pretty much worthless, a stacked group of 10 or more that simultaneously attack is super effective for harassing workers and spell casters. The splash damage means that having more mutas makes your army exponentially stronger, and a stacked group or two can be strong in battle too. Overall at a certain point you should stop making mutas because there are stronger units and good counters, but mutas are very versatile, which I think is their strongest characteristic
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
October 18 2012 21:50 GMT
#5
effervescent,

Well, I just feel like the effectiveness of an sc2 muta and a bw muta is different. In bw you had mutas that could fight head on in certain situations (due to stacking). In sc2 I feel like mutas are more fragile and you can never really fight head on, but you still need a large group to do harassment damage, but these are dead supply in any fight since they die so quickly.

My question is that since mutas are more fun to watch than infestors, why isn't it possible to give them a slight buff and infestors a slight nerf so that we see mutas as a more viable option in comparison? Right now it seems like it's dumb to not go infestors. The skill requirement for using mutas effectively is very high, while infestors can give more effectiveness and are easier to use. What about a buff would make mutas game breaking/ why hasn't it been brought up at all?

Not trying to whine or anything (I posted a blog b/c I didnt think this was worthy of the forums), just curious.
Kazahk
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States385 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-19 05:13:51
October 19 2012 05:12 GMT
#6
Why must every thing be like BW?

Why not take a few years and make it better?

I'm basically saying that not everything has been explored yet. Give it some time.
Rngesus blessed me with a tooth half, then shunned me with a spinach roll.
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
October 19 2012 11:12 GMT
#7
Kazahk,

While I understand that things don't need to be like bw, I just don't understand why (to me) the muta seems weakened in this game. I'm honestly just curious as to what the thought process was behind it. I didn't play the beta for sc2 so I don't know the history of the unit design as well as I would like for this game.

An example of what I would like to know would be Psi storm being nerfed via khadarin amulet because of instant storms=OP. Or marines having their health buffed due to (im assuming) banelings. Am I wrong about mutas being less effective in sc2 vs BW? and If I am why is that so? I just like the unit and I want to know why it couldn't be stronger so we see it more.

Thanks for taking the time to read my blog
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
17:00
#39
RotterdaM672
IndyStarCraft 206
TKL 175
BRAT_OK 120
SteadfastSC71
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Grubby 2828
RotterdaM 672
mouzHeroMarine 307
IndyStarCraft 206
TKL 175
BRAT_OK 120
SteadfastSC 71
UpATreeSC 64
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3452
Bisu 1020
firebathero 463
EffOrt 339
Hyuk 301
Mini 298
Larva 244
Sharp 236
ggaemo 190
Soulkey 142
[ Show more ]
Mong 102
Bonyth 84
hero 74
Mind 46
Movie 40
Shinee 28
Aegong 26
Shuttle 25
Rock 20
soO 17
Shine 13
JulyZerg 7
Dota 2
Gorgc3703
qojqva1914
420jenkins219
BananaSlamJamma122
League of Legends
C9.Mang069
Counter-Strike
fl0m1578
oskar111
adren_tv103
ptr_tv39
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu0
Other Games
FrodaN2505
Beastyqt845
ArmadaUGS246
crisheroes202
Mew2King100
Hui .95
Trikslyr43
MindelVK7
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 40
• Shameless 19
• iHatsuTV 9
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV399
League of Legends
• TFBlade1728
• Shiphtur446
• Stunt394
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
6h 12m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
16h 12m
LiuLi Cup
17h 12m
Reynor vs Creator
Maru vs Lambo
PiGosaur Monday
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 15h
LiuLi Cup
1d 17h
Clem vs Rogue
SHIN vs Cyan
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
Scarlett vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
3 days
LiuLi Cup
3 days
Serral vs Zoun
Cure vs Classic
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.