• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:43
CEST 17:43
KST 00:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple2BSL Season 2312Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Grand Finals ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder Syncronization issues and can't find games an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot NaDa's Body BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] IPSL is Back With Winter 26-27!
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9957 users

Question

Blogs > ultrakiss
Post a Reply
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-18 17:38:12
October 18 2012 17:36 GMT
#1
Why can't mutas and hydras be buffed and infestors nerfed? Would a non root fungal make zvz muta wars like in BW? And would a buffed muta break zvp?

Mutas are the most micro friendly zerg unit (I could be wrong). They're also more exciting to watch than infestor/roach play generally. Seeing muta play is much more intense and nerve racking for spectators, but its also much weaker than going infestor in most cases.

However, they are pretty much figured out in zvt right now. Whenever I see a zerg player win with mutas it's really impressive since it seems so hard to win that way unless you have a huge advantage (i.e. they failed cheesing so they're already behind).

In zvz, mutas get shutdown hard by infestors. I don't like muta wars, so I would like some way to keep the matchup from turning into that. Right now I feel like if you couldn't root and chain fungal the mutas they would be too hard to deal with in zvz. Thats why maybe a hydra health buff would make them a good counter?

Any change to mutas would probably be rough for zvp, but I dont really ever play toss or go mutas against them. I do watch alot of sc2 though, and you used to see SUPER heavy muta base race play alot of the time. Now its pretty rare. Would a muta buff make this style too strong? Or would it be manageable now that toss knows how to deal with it better + phoenix buff from before?

*I don't think a hydra buff would really hurt zvp or zvt since hydras are still not very good even in HOTS (from what I've seen).

Im honestly asking just because Im sure theres a reason things are the way they are, its just not apparent to me

*
P7GAB
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada486 Posts
October 18 2012 20:12 GMT
#2
buffed mutas would break zvp, but it would be cool to see hydras buffed
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
October 18 2012 20:40 GMT
#3
Could you elaborate please? I figured that was the reason but what specifically would make a buff broken? Also, why weren't mutas broken in BW (I didn't watch much competitive BW but from what I have seen/played/read mutas always seemed stronger).
EffervescentAureola
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States410 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-18 21:40:12
October 18 2012 21:37 GMT
#4
I don't know what you mean, but in BW mutes relied on numbers, like many Zerg units. The advantage of mutes is that they are fast, can attack both air and land, and good for harass because of stacking. 1 muta is pretty much worthless, a stacked group of 10 or more that simultaneously attack is super effective for harassing workers and spell casters. The splash damage means that having more mutas makes your army exponentially stronger, and a stacked group or two can be strong in battle too. Overall at a certain point you should stop making mutas because there are stronger units and good counters, but mutas are very versatile, which I think is their strongest characteristic
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
October 18 2012 21:50 GMT
#5
effervescent,

Well, I just feel like the effectiveness of an sc2 muta and a bw muta is different. In bw you had mutas that could fight head on in certain situations (due to stacking). In sc2 I feel like mutas are more fragile and you can never really fight head on, but you still need a large group to do harassment damage, but these are dead supply in any fight since they die so quickly.

My question is that since mutas are more fun to watch than infestors, why isn't it possible to give them a slight buff and infestors a slight nerf so that we see mutas as a more viable option in comparison? Right now it seems like it's dumb to not go infestors. The skill requirement for using mutas effectively is very high, while infestors can give more effectiveness and are easier to use. What about a buff would make mutas game breaking/ why hasn't it been brought up at all?

Not trying to whine or anything (I posted a blog b/c I didnt think this was worthy of the forums), just curious.
Kazahk
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States385 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-19 05:13:51
October 19 2012 05:12 GMT
#6
Why must every thing be like BW?

Why not take a few years and make it better?

I'm basically saying that not everything has been explored yet. Give it some time.
Rngesus blessed me with a tooth half, then shunned me with a spinach roll.
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
October 19 2012 11:12 GMT
#7
Kazahk,

While I understand that things don't need to be like bw, I just don't understand why (to me) the muta seems weakened in this game. I'm honestly just curious as to what the thought process was behind it. I didn't play the beta for sc2 so I don't know the history of the unit design as well as I would like for this game.

An example of what I would like to know would be Psi storm being nerfed via khadarin amulet because of instant storms=OP. Or marines having their health buffed due to (im assuming) banelings. Am I wrong about mutas being less effective in sc2 vs BW? and If I am why is that so? I just like the unit and I want to know why it couldn't be stronger so we see it more.

Thanks for taking the time to read my blog
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
11:00
WardiTV 10 Playoffs
ByuN vs ClassicLIVE!
Clem vs RogueLIVE!
SHIN vs TBD
WardiTV1293
IntoTheiNu 897
TaKeTV 392
IndyStarCraft 213
Rex140
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 213
Rex 135
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 48181
EffOrt 1854
BeSt 852
Mini 810
actioN 520
ggaemo 327
Sea.KH 76
Barracks 54
sorry 39
ToSsGirL 39
[ Show more ]
sSak 39
Hyun 38
Bale 31
NaDa 26
zelot 26
soO 25
Terrorterran 25
Trap 19
Rock 13
yabsab 12
Free 11
Dewaltoss 2
Dota 2
Gorgc7191
Dendi746
BananaSlamJamma64
Counter-Strike
Fnx 619
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor311
Other Games
singsing1727
B2W.Neo906
Happy375
crisheroes254
Liquid`VortiX189
ArmadaUGS141
KnowMe129
Beastyqt84
Mew2King62
Trikslyr35
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream18475
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 1422
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 292
Other Games
BasetradeTV83
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH244
• StrangeGG 38
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 35
• Michael_bg 8
• FirePhoenix8
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV353
League of Legends
• Nemesis4675
• Jankos3024
Other Games
• Shiphtur192
Upcoming Events
AI Arena Tournament
1h 17m
BSL: Ladder Tournament
3h 17m
GSL
16h 17m
Yamato Cup
23h 17m
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 3h
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 8h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 18h
Soma vs Jaedong
WardiTV Weekly
1d 19h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Calamity Invitational
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.