• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:51
CET 09:51
KST 17:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners9Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!33$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship6[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win10
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1560 users

Question

Blogs > ultrakiss
Post a Reply
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-18 17:38:12
October 18 2012 17:36 GMT
#1
Why can't mutas and hydras be buffed and infestors nerfed? Would a non root fungal make zvz muta wars like in BW? And would a buffed muta break zvp?

Mutas are the most micro friendly zerg unit (I could be wrong). They're also more exciting to watch than infestor/roach play generally. Seeing muta play is much more intense and nerve racking for spectators, but its also much weaker than going infestor in most cases.

However, they are pretty much figured out in zvt right now. Whenever I see a zerg player win with mutas it's really impressive since it seems so hard to win that way unless you have a huge advantage (i.e. they failed cheesing so they're already behind).

In zvz, mutas get shutdown hard by infestors. I don't like muta wars, so I would like some way to keep the matchup from turning into that. Right now I feel like if you couldn't root and chain fungal the mutas they would be too hard to deal with in zvz. Thats why maybe a hydra health buff would make them a good counter?

Any change to mutas would probably be rough for zvp, but I dont really ever play toss or go mutas against them. I do watch alot of sc2 though, and you used to see SUPER heavy muta base race play alot of the time. Now its pretty rare. Would a muta buff make this style too strong? Or would it be manageable now that toss knows how to deal with it better + phoenix buff from before?

*I don't think a hydra buff would really hurt zvp or zvt since hydras are still not very good even in HOTS (from what I've seen).

Im honestly asking just because Im sure theres a reason things are the way they are, its just not apparent to me

*
P7GAB
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada486 Posts
October 18 2012 20:12 GMT
#2
buffed mutas would break zvp, but it would be cool to see hydras buffed
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
October 18 2012 20:40 GMT
#3
Could you elaborate please? I figured that was the reason but what specifically would make a buff broken? Also, why weren't mutas broken in BW (I didn't watch much competitive BW but from what I have seen/played/read mutas always seemed stronger).
EffervescentAureola
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States410 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-18 21:40:12
October 18 2012 21:37 GMT
#4
I don't know what you mean, but in BW mutes relied on numbers, like many Zerg units. The advantage of mutes is that they are fast, can attack both air and land, and good for harass because of stacking. 1 muta is pretty much worthless, a stacked group of 10 or more that simultaneously attack is super effective for harassing workers and spell casters. The splash damage means that having more mutas makes your army exponentially stronger, and a stacked group or two can be strong in battle too. Overall at a certain point you should stop making mutas because there are stronger units and good counters, but mutas are very versatile, which I think is their strongest characteristic
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
October 18 2012 21:50 GMT
#5
effervescent,

Well, I just feel like the effectiveness of an sc2 muta and a bw muta is different. In bw you had mutas that could fight head on in certain situations (due to stacking). In sc2 I feel like mutas are more fragile and you can never really fight head on, but you still need a large group to do harassment damage, but these are dead supply in any fight since they die so quickly.

My question is that since mutas are more fun to watch than infestors, why isn't it possible to give them a slight buff and infestors a slight nerf so that we see mutas as a more viable option in comparison? Right now it seems like it's dumb to not go infestors. The skill requirement for using mutas effectively is very high, while infestors can give more effectiveness and are easier to use. What about a buff would make mutas game breaking/ why hasn't it been brought up at all?

Not trying to whine or anything (I posted a blog b/c I didnt think this was worthy of the forums), just curious.
Kazahk
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States385 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-19 05:13:51
October 19 2012 05:12 GMT
#6
Why must every thing be like BW?

Why not take a few years and make it better?

I'm basically saying that not everything has been explored yet. Give it some time.
Rngesus blessed me with a tooth half, then shunned me with a spinach roll.
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
October 19 2012 11:12 GMT
#7
Kazahk,

While I understand that things don't need to be like bw, I just don't understand why (to me) the muta seems weakened in this game. I'm honestly just curious as to what the thought process was behind it. I didn't play the beta for sc2 so I don't know the history of the unit design as well as I would like for this game.

An example of what I would like to know would be Psi storm being nerfed via khadarin amulet because of instant storms=OP. Or marines having their health buffed due to (im assuming) banelings. Am I wrong about mutas being less effective in sc2 vs BW? and If I am why is that so? I just like the unit and I want to know why it couldn't be stronger so we see it more.

Thanks for taking the time to read my blog
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 9m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 209
ProTech126
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 6709
Zeus 700
Larva 434
actioN 381
Killer 323
ToSsGirL 69
Noble 33
Hm[arnc] 21
NaDa 16
Bale 14
[ Show more ]
HiyA 7
NotJumperer 6
Sacsri 0
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm95
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 573
Reynor91
Counter-Strike
fl0m2286
Other Games
summit1g18033
C9.Mang0425
XaKoH 0
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick675
Counter-Strike
PGL95
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2271
• Stunt749
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
1h 9m
IPSL
9h 9m
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
LAN Event
9h 9m
Lambo vs Clem
Scarlett vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs TBD
Zoun vs TBD
BSL 21
11h 9m
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs OyAji
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
Replay Cast
14h 9m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 1h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 3h
LAN Event
1d 6h
IPSL
1d 9h
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
1d 11h
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.