• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:10
CEST 02:10
KST 09:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun4[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists19[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
WardiTV Spring Cup 2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament INu's Battles#14 <BO.9 2Matches> GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Leta's ASL S21 Ro.16 review ASL21 General Discussion JaeDong's ASL S21 Ro16 Post-Review [ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro8 Day 1 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL21] Ro16 Group D
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV Total Annihilation Server - TAForever
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2113 users

Question

Blogs > ultrakiss
Post a Reply
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-18 17:38:12
October 18 2012 17:36 GMT
#1
Why can't mutas and hydras be buffed and infestors nerfed? Would a non root fungal make zvz muta wars like in BW? And would a buffed muta break zvp?

Mutas are the most micro friendly zerg unit (I could be wrong). They're also more exciting to watch than infestor/roach play generally. Seeing muta play is much more intense and nerve racking for spectators, but its also much weaker than going infestor in most cases.

However, they are pretty much figured out in zvt right now. Whenever I see a zerg player win with mutas it's really impressive since it seems so hard to win that way unless you have a huge advantage (i.e. they failed cheesing so they're already behind).

In zvz, mutas get shutdown hard by infestors. I don't like muta wars, so I would like some way to keep the matchup from turning into that. Right now I feel like if you couldn't root and chain fungal the mutas they would be too hard to deal with in zvz. Thats why maybe a hydra health buff would make them a good counter?

Any change to mutas would probably be rough for zvp, but I dont really ever play toss or go mutas against them. I do watch alot of sc2 though, and you used to see SUPER heavy muta base race play alot of the time. Now its pretty rare. Would a muta buff make this style too strong? Or would it be manageable now that toss knows how to deal with it better + phoenix buff from before?

*I don't think a hydra buff would really hurt zvp or zvt since hydras are still not very good even in HOTS (from what I've seen).

Im honestly asking just because Im sure theres a reason things are the way they are, its just not apparent to me

*
P7GAB
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada486 Posts
October 18 2012 20:12 GMT
#2
buffed mutas would break zvp, but it would be cool to see hydras buffed
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
October 18 2012 20:40 GMT
#3
Could you elaborate please? I figured that was the reason but what specifically would make a buff broken? Also, why weren't mutas broken in BW (I didn't watch much competitive BW but from what I have seen/played/read mutas always seemed stronger).
EffervescentAureola
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States410 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-18 21:40:12
October 18 2012 21:37 GMT
#4
I don't know what you mean, but in BW mutes relied on numbers, like many Zerg units. The advantage of mutes is that they are fast, can attack both air and land, and good for harass because of stacking. 1 muta is pretty much worthless, a stacked group of 10 or more that simultaneously attack is super effective for harassing workers and spell casters. The splash damage means that having more mutas makes your army exponentially stronger, and a stacked group or two can be strong in battle too. Overall at a certain point you should stop making mutas because there are stronger units and good counters, but mutas are very versatile, which I think is their strongest characteristic
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
October 18 2012 21:50 GMT
#5
effervescent,

Well, I just feel like the effectiveness of an sc2 muta and a bw muta is different. In bw you had mutas that could fight head on in certain situations (due to stacking). In sc2 I feel like mutas are more fragile and you can never really fight head on, but you still need a large group to do harassment damage, but these are dead supply in any fight since they die so quickly.

My question is that since mutas are more fun to watch than infestors, why isn't it possible to give them a slight buff and infestors a slight nerf so that we see mutas as a more viable option in comparison? Right now it seems like it's dumb to not go infestors. The skill requirement for using mutas effectively is very high, while infestors can give more effectiveness and are easier to use. What about a buff would make mutas game breaking/ why hasn't it been brought up at all?

Not trying to whine or anything (I posted a blog b/c I didnt think this was worthy of the forums), just curious.
Kazahk
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States385 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-19 05:13:51
October 19 2012 05:12 GMT
#6
Why must every thing be like BW?

Why not take a few years and make it better?

I'm basically saying that not everything has been explored yet. Give it some time.
Rngesus blessed me with a tooth half, then shunned me with a spinach roll.
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
October 19 2012 11:12 GMT
#7
Kazahk,

While I understand that things don't need to be like bw, I just don't understand why (to me) the muta seems weakened in this game. I'm honestly just curious as to what the thought process was behind it. I didn't play the beta for sc2 so I don't know the history of the unit design as well as I would like for this game.

An example of what I would like to know would be Psi storm being nerfed via khadarin amulet because of instant storms=OP. Or marines having their health buffed due to (im assuming) banelings. Am I wrong about mutas being less effective in sc2 vs BW? and If I am why is that so? I just like the unit and I want to know why it couldn't be stronger so we see it more.

Thanks for taking the time to read my blog
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#79 (TLMC 22 Edition)
PiGStarcraft326
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft326
CosmosSc2 34
ProTech5
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 13237
GuemChi 3086
Artosis 607
NaDa 26
Dota 2
monkeys_forever690
capcasts139
Counter-Strike
fl0m3648
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1171
Other Games
summit1g9968
tarik_tv6621
Day[9].tv661
shahzam517
C9.Mang0259
Maynarde95
PPMD21
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1055
BasetradeTV202
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream160
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 69
• musti20045 26
• davetesta8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1719
• Day9tv661
Upcoming Events
GSL
9h 20m
Rogue vs Percival
Zoun vs Solar
Replay Cast
23h 50m
GSL
1d 9h
Cure vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Bunny
KCM Race Survival
1d 9h
Big Gabe
1d 11h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
Escore
2 days
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
BSL
4 days
IPSL
4 days
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Snow vs Flash
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W4
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
2026 GSL S1
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W5
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.