• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:23
CEST 15:23
KST 22:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters9[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism5Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?118Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!46
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) SC4ALL: II Winner Will Earn a Spot at HSC 30! Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) 2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? [ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters ASL22 General Discussion Pros React To: Calm's Big Brain Play Vs Mini New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament [ASL22] Ro16 Group A
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Diablo IV [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
F* the Children and Get Off …
TrAiDoS
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5960 users

Question

Blogs > ultrakiss
Post a Reply
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-18 17:38:12
October 18 2012 17:36 GMT
#1
Why can't mutas and hydras be buffed and infestors nerfed? Would a non root fungal make zvz muta wars like in BW? And would a buffed muta break zvp?

Mutas are the most micro friendly zerg unit (I could be wrong). They're also more exciting to watch than infestor/roach play generally. Seeing muta play is much more intense and nerve racking for spectators, but its also much weaker than going infestor in most cases.

However, they are pretty much figured out in zvt right now. Whenever I see a zerg player win with mutas it's really impressive since it seems so hard to win that way unless you have a huge advantage (i.e. they failed cheesing so they're already behind).

In zvz, mutas get shutdown hard by infestors. I don't like muta wars, so I would like some way to keep the matchup from turning into that. Right now I feel like if you couldn't root and chain fungal the mutas they would be too hard to deal with in zvz. Thats why maybe a hydra health buff would make them a good counter?

Any change to mutas would probably be rough for zvp, but I dont really ever play toss or go mutas against them. I do watch alot of sc2 though, and you used to see SUPER heavy muta base race play alot of the time. Now its pretty rare. Would a muta buff make this style too strong? Or would it be manageable now that toss knows how to deal with it better + phoenix buff from before?

*I don't think a hydra buff would really hurt zvp or zvt since hydras are still not very good even in HOTS (from what I've seen).

Im honestly asking just because Im sure theres a reason things are the way they are, its just not apparent to me

*
P7GAB
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada486 Posts
October 18 2012 20:12 GMT
#2
buffed mutas would break zvp, but it would be cool to see hydras buffed
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
October 18 2012 20:40 GMT
#3
Could you elaborate please? I figured that was the reason but what specifically would make a buff broken? Also, why weren't mutas broken in BW (I didn't watch much competitive BW but from what I have seen/played/read mutas always seemed stronger).
EffervescentAureola
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States410 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-18 21:40:12
October 18 2012 21:37 GMT
#4
I don't know what you mean, but in BW mutes relied on numbers, like many Zerg units. The advantage of mutes is that they are fast, can attack both air and land, and good for harass because of stacking. 1 muta is pretty much worthless, a stacked group of 10 or more that simultaneously attack is super effective for harassing workers and spell casters. The splash damage means that having more mutas makes your army exponentially stronger, and a stacked group or two can be strong in battle too. Overall at a certain point you should stop making mutas because there are stronger units and good counters, but mutas are very versatile, which I think is their strongest characteristic
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
October 18 2012 21:50 GMT
#5
effervescent,

Well, I just feel like the effectiveness of an sc2 muta and a bw muta is different. In bw you had mutas that could fight head on in certain situations (due to stacking). In sc2 I feel like mutas are more fragile and you can never really fight head on, but you still need a large group to do harassment damage, but these are dead supply in any fight since they die so quickly.

My question is that since mutas are more fun to watch than infestors, why isn't it possible to give them a slight buff and infestors a slight nerf so that we see mutas as a more viable option in comparison? Right now it seems like it's dumb to not go infestors. The skill requirement for using mutas effectively is very high, while infestors can give more effectiveness and are easier to use. What about a buff would make mutas game breaking/ why hasn't it been brought up at all?

Not trying to whine or anything (I posted a blog b/c I didnt think this was worthy of the forums), just curious.
Kazahk
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States385 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-19 05:13:51
October 19 2012 05:12 GMT
#6
Why must every thing be like BW?

Why not take a few years and make it better?

I'm basically saying that not everything has been explored yet. Give it some time.
Rngesus blessed me with a tooth half, then shunned me with a spinach roll.
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
October 19 2012 11:12 GMT
#7
Kazahk,

While I understand that things don't need to be like bw, I just don't understand why (to me) the muta seems weakened in this game. I'm honestly just curious as to what the thought process was behind it. I didn't play the beta for sc2 so I don't know the history of the unit design as well as I would like for this game.

An example of what I would like to know would be Psi storm being nerfed via khadarin amulet because of instant storms=OP. Or marines having their health buffed due to (im assuming) banelings. Am I wrong about mutas being less effective in sc2 vs BW? and If I am why is that so? I just like the unit and I want to know why it couldn't be stronger so we see it more.

Thanks for taking the time to read my blog
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
11:00
2026 Week 22
IntoTheiNu 1553
WardiTV598
RotterdaM436
IndyStarCraft 189
TKL 153
Rex124
SteadfastSC88
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 436
IndyStarCraft 189
TKL 153
ProTech140
Rex 124
SteadfastSC 88
Trap 5
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 6180
Jaedong 4047
Soulkey 2263
Horang2 1039
Mini 691
Shuttle 559
Hyuk 475
Light 462
Snow 415
BeSt 362
[ Show more ]
EffOrt 329
Stork 217
firebathero 183
Last 177
Barracks 110
Pusan 80
hero 59
Sharp 56
Hm[arnc] 53
PianO 43
sSak 38
Mind 35
ToSsGirL 30
soO 28
Bale 23
Terrorterran 23
910 19
Sacsri 12
SilentControl 10
scan(afreeca) 9
Icarus 8
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Rock 4
Dota 2
qojqva2043
Dendi1653
syndereN637
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1602
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox905
Other Games
singsing2052
B2W.Neo612
crisheroes388
Lowko385
DeMusliM318
XaKoH 190
Sick124
Liquid`VortiX118
ArmadaUGS70
QueenE40
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1563
• WagamamaTV643
League of Legends
• Jankos2224
• TFBlade611
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
10h 38m
The PondCast
20h 38m
KCM Race Survival
20h 38m
OSC
1d 9h
Escore
1d 20h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 21h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
4 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Clem vs TBD
RSL Revival
4 days
Serral vs Rogue
[ Show More ]
BlizzCon
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
GSL
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-08
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.