|
My parents often liked to use an idiom called 瞎子摸象, or "a blind man touching an elephant."
The idiom basically refers to the fact that some topics of knowledge are so vast as to be essentially unknowable or unfathomable; that like blind men trying to determine the shape of an elephant by feeling only the trunk, the tail, or the legs, we may get completely wrong answers relying on our highly imperfect senses.
I had the (mis)fortune of growing up under two PhDs. They really wanted me to go into the hard sciences, so whenever I started talking about how interesting social sciences were to me, that's what they would say--"Econ is like a blind man trying to touch an elephant"; "Sociology is like..."; "Political science is like..."; "Public policy is like..." etc.
Ironically enough, I get this feeling a lot when I read Western news stories about China. Every self-respecting Western news house has released giant exposes on China in the past decade. Every news personality and academic, it seems has had something to say about the Middle Kingdom. And more often than not, they're like blind men and an elephant.
On one side, some will look at rising protests and corruption and conclude the Chinese government is unstable. Others will look at the rising military spending and conclude the Chinese government is hell-bent on pushing its boundaries with waves of cruise missiles, stealth jets, and submarines. On the other side, people will crow about the unlimited potential of the Chinese economy, and the government's insane ability to get big things done as proof positive that China will ascend toward to national greatness... or as proof that China will one day eclipse the United States and subject Americans to some unspeakable tribulations (like forcing the US to repay the debt by running a trade surplus with China. The horror!)
And they're all right, and yet all wrong.
There is one way to take off the blindfold when figuring out the elephant in the room, however. And that's with an American idiom first coined by Deep Throat--"follow the money."
In Communist China, follow the smiling Mao on the hundred-Yuan note, and everything else can be divined.
Let's start with some history though, since it's cool shit.
In 1978, a group of eighteen Anhui farmers, led by the only one amongst them who could read, agreed to break the law by signing a secret agreement to divide the land, the local People's Commune, into family plots. Each family would turn over a portion of the produce to the government, while keeping the surplus from that plot for themselves. They also agreed that should one of them be caught and sentenced to death, the other villagers would raise their children until they were 18 years old.
That year, their village produced a harvest larger than the the past five years combined. Per capita annual income in the village went from 22 yuan to 400 yuan.
Before long, the central government found out. The villagers were fortunate that they had this man in charge and not Mao Zedong:
The true macro Terran. Flash has nothing on this guy.
Deng Xiaoping decided shortly before those farmers began their experiment that being socialist did not mean being equally poor, and decided to change China by embracing capitalist reform. But before he could embark on this grand plan, he had to accomplish three things beforehand:
1) Deal with residual hard-line elements within China.
2) Gain an export market that could provide technology and a source of aggregate demand that would constantly tug Chinese companies upward to a more competitive level.
3) Scare China's neighbors so much that they wouldn't cause any trouble while China did its massive reform policy.
How to do this? With the Uriah gambit, of course.
In the morning David wrote a letter to Joab and sent it with Uriah. In it he wrote, "Put Uriah out in front where the fighting is fiercest. Then withdraw from him so he will be struck down and die." --2 Samuel 11:14-15
And so, a mere 3 months after the farmers in Anhui decided to go capitalist, Deng executed his plan.
On the morning of February 17, 1979, the mists of northern Vietnam were once again broken apart by airstrikes, artillery, and the sounds of men in battle. Eighteen fully equipped PLA infantry and armored divisions invaded northern Vietnam--nearly 200,000 men and hundreds of aircraft and tanks.
A curious thing happened a few days before the assaults. Normally, PLA ground offensives are conducted with little advance warning, but here, American KH-9 Big Bird satellites saw the troop buildup prior to the invasion, and in his January state visit, Deng was quizzed about the buildups. He confirmed them, in public.
Why? Because Deng wanted the war to be messy.
Let's back up for a second. Deng knows that he's sitting on a demographic surplus: China has just enacted the one-child policy; it is going to enter a huge boom period where there are a whole bunch of working adults with relatively fewer children to look after and even fewer elderly. China needs to tap into this resource and prosper, much like if it was an oil kingdom that discovered an oil field which would go away after 50 years.
Deng knows that the only country that can absorb the surplus output while improving his economy is the United States. The US has all the social institutions in place to give away its aggregate demand to the rest of the world by absorbing exports; it has them in place because it used those institutions to keep Western Europe and Japan under its control. Deng now wants to plug China into those institutions, but he's gotta demonstrate good faith to the Americans.
On the home front, Deng has a whole bunch of cranky generals and party leaders who hate this idea and love autarky/engaging the rest of the world with guns and revolution.
Internationally, the Soviets look down on China, the Indians sneer at China, Japan sneers at China, and even piddly little Vietnam and Thailand brag that they could kick China's ass.
By invading Vietnam and making the war a complete mess for both sides, he gains brownie points from the US for slaughtering the guys that humiliated the Americans, while also putting the PLA in its place by showing them that their retardation regarding warfare also means those hardliners should not be given influence over domestic policy. Also, since Chinese troops were not bound the rules of engagement that US troops operated under (e.g. don't kill civilians and don't blow everything up) they could accomplish part three of their mission quite well, scaring the shit out of everyone around them. (It also helped that Deng mobilized 1.5 million more troops, daring any other country around China to intervene.)
And so 60,000 Vietnamese and Chinese troops had to die, all in the span of less than a month; by far the bloodiest war in terms of deaths/day in post-WW2 history. In addition, the Chinese flattened the city of Lang Son with fuel air explosives and incendiary artillery while their own troops and Vietnamese troops were still fighting for it, killing 10-15,000 Viet civilians too, and bombed/dismantled every railway/road bridge and industrial facility between Hanoi and the Chinese border.
It was worth it. The consensus forged here--economic growth sparked by export zones; a Western target market; the CCP in charge, with reform-minded but politically autocratic leaders--was so strong that it could withstand the dual challenge posed 10 years later by a bunch of kids who refused to eat. And no country dared take advantage of China's policy shift over the next thirty years, not even when those starving kids got run over by tanks and China's international influence was at its nadir.
The hunger games of Beijing happened in May and June of 1989. China had finished a long period of development, but bad shit--inflation, corruption, and a population that wanted the truth rather than money--was starting to get in the way. Deng decided to do his Vietnam strategy and discredit the hardliners while scaring his domestic and foreign opponents by washing their hands in blood and blaming everybody except himself for the carnage.
When the dust cleared, Deng traveled south, in 1992, and restarted economic reform; this time, he decided to fold the hard-liners into the process by giving them all cuts of lucrative state owned enterprises, which ironically placed the new arbiters of power, the Chinese financial mandarins in the National Development and Reform Commission, and the Ministries of Commerce and Finance, in a position of influence over their old masters, since these mandarins, led by reformist premier Zhu Rongji, now could determine which enterprises lived, and which died.
The WTO ascension in 2001 threw this whole game into fast forward. Had Deng still been alive, he probably would have done a fist-pump, because with Hong Kong, and Macau integrated, and China in the WTO, China had finally emerged from the long shadow of the 1840s Opium War--and China had done it with his strategies, his ideas.
And for a time after that, all was good. The Dengist consensus stood. China would stay politically stable, and get rich via investment-driven and export-driven growth. Simple.
But now cracks began appearing in the facade.
Here is where we talk about money. How does China make money and make its GDP?
In the beginning, development was capital intensive and capital went into productivity gains. Things like better technology, for example, or highway and rail links from manufacturing greenfields to ports. Gradually, though, China has been hitting a point of diminishing returns with this model. But the growth model still uses up capital like a Chinese girlfriend uses up toilet paper (date one and you'll know). Even though logically the system should be dispensing less capital, it still dispenses moar and moar.
Why? Because this is the root of the Dengist model. Deng wanted fast development. The only way to do this, his advisors told him, was to socialize the cost of capital, while privatizing the benefits of using it successfully.
And it's true. That's the insight they never tell you in Econ. So much of economic growth hinges on intangible input variables which boil down to a simple thing: "animal spirits". And then they tell you that human beings are risk-averse. Put two and two together, and what happens? Well when the world is full of cowards, the only way to get people pumped up enough to take a risk is to take risk out of the equation, by letting people make money with other people's money (to paraphrase two of my personal heroes, Aristotle Onassis and Adnan Khashoggi.)
When this works, you get an Asian Tiger or West Germany. When it doesn't, you get Nigeria. But China is neither. Why?
Because Deng took this one step further. In most of these "other people's money" systems, it's the merchant class that leads the way. With Deng, he made sure that the flagbearers would be merchant-bureaucracy hybrids, because this is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics we're talking here, and how long could the Revolutionary Proletarian Vanguard (tm) survive if China's best and brightest did not see it as a route to serving the people getting filthy rich and banging Zhang Ziyi in the back of your chauffered, government-issue Audi right outside the gates of a preschool? (Someone actually did that. Chauffeurs have zero practice holding their liquor, so they will spill all their secrets when they're drunk)
And what of the rewards for success? In those other systems, when you succeed in building up your chaebol/zaibatsu/GmBH, you became *oppa gangnam style*. But in China, you can't do that directly, and sometimes the rewards are different.
Quick case example: Let's say you're doing a pretty decent job in a central government institution in Beijing. You get promoted to a vice section chief in one of the ministries. So the Party Organization Bureau decides to give you a challenge--they parachute you into a party secretary seat in a midsized Chinese rust belt city.
You're young enough to be eligible for promotion to province party head. But you're not alone. Two other guys are also parachuted into other cities in the province. And the Party Organization Bureau has been careful to pick only certain guys--let's say that other dude stole your sweetheart while both of you studied at Tsinghua--that you hate, and that hate you.
Well now you and him are locked in a competition to build up your cities. Imagine this as a game of Simcity on crack, and just like in Simcity, everything takes money. So you go hat in hand to the banks.
Now begins the courtship. The banks are themselves beholden to patrons higher up, so you go and align yourself with a patron. The patron (lets say he's a politburo guy who knows your dad... or if you're lucky, who is your dad) sets up a meeting. You make the pitch.
Here's how a pitch to a Chinese bank happens. You go in, you make a presentation. Afterwards, all the poor interns and analysts, as well as your mayoral aides, get shoved off to one conference room with some cheap take-out where they hammer out the specifics of the deal and argue over numbers... or just talk about the Premier League and pretend to work.
Meanwhile, you and the big boys from the bank drink and toast to each other, and drunkenly bellow phrases like
"能做成这件事情,真亏XXXX...XXXX万岁!" (this deal owes so much to XXXX, ten thousand years to XXXX!) where XXXX is the name of your mutual patron and ten-thousand years, the honorific normally reserved for Emperors.
or the time-honored
"喝! 喝! 每杯,一百万!" (Drink! Drink! Every shot, one million!), referring to the extra loan amounts you can get by hastening the onset of liver cancer.
As you can probably guess, the pitch matters little. The whole meeting doesn't really matter. Ultimately your patron settles things, and you get the loan.
Now you have the money. Well, not only that--the system knows you have the money, so it's going to expect you to boost GDP with it. If you don't, your patron will yell at you. So you put it in the things that naturally show up on the GDP charts the fastest--investment in real estate or industry.
And voila. You win. You get your promotion. You can even skim a bit off the top and no one will notice--hey, it's expected, it's your reward for taking risks with other people's money. And what's more, if you advertise your city the most, build the most shiny (vacant) malls and beautiful (empty) apartment blocks and sprawling (idle) factory complexes, then you get promoted over your hated rival--and now, in addition to being *oppa gangnam style*, you can in watch your rival beg for mercy as you sentence him to 10 years of hard labor for embezzling money with the same methods you used... and you can look into the eyes of the woman who rejected you 20 years ago in college and say "看来你当初选错了...可惜现在后悔也来不及了" "guess you chose wrong back in the day. well TOO LATE BITCH" (Someone actually did this, too.)
See what I mean about Simcity on crack? And once the promotion happens, it repeats; you're now playing Civilization 5 on crack with the province you just inherited.
Now, for a while, this method actually generated a lot of real improvement, because China was so underdeveloped that you could throw real estate, infrastructure, or industry anywhere and it would help out--and China had that "demographic dividend" from the one-child policy restricting its giant working age population from having kids to supercharge the "build it and they will come" approach. But now there's enough of it. China needs to change its growth model.
But change ain't easy; while some rare people lead by example, everyone follows by example, and the people at the top, nowadays, got there by walking this route (Xi Jinping in Fuzhou, Li Keqiang in Henan and Liaoning). But these new leaders aren't dumb. They know that the jig is up. China's almost out of cash, and that fact becomes more and more apparent each day in spite of all the made-up statistics. How to tell all the underlings below them though, without leaving the blood on their hands? Who do they find to make an example of?
Enter Bo Xilai. This is where we go back to history again.
In March, Bo Xilai, hotshot and rising star of Chinese politics, was sacked from his position as the Party Chief of Chongqing, a megacity of over 100 million people and the land area of Austria. (China places its four megacities--Shanghai, Beijing, Tianjin, and Chongqing--on a political level equal to provinces.)
On the surface, Secretary Bo was sacked because of a scandal.
The quick details: his wife was involved with some British dude named Neil Heywood (whether sexually or just financially, no one knows.) Neil helped Mrs. Bo shift cash out of the country for safekeeping, and also helped Bo Junior get admitted into Harrow and later Oxford. Well, they had a falling out over the size of the fees Neil got for doing this, so Neil was murdered. Then the police chief of Chongqing, Wang Lijun, supposedly Bo's right-hand man ever since his days as a mere mayor of Dalian, was told to cover things up, but instead told Bo that he was uncomfortable doing this. Bo vaccilated a few days between tossing his wife under the bus or covering it up, and instead decided to do a full on cover-up, which included placing his right hand man in a soft form of house arrest. Wang Lijun says "fuck this shit", and decides to escape to the US Consulate, where he eventually walks out a day later into the hands of the Chinese central government to testify against his former provincial boss. Mrs. Bo is convicted, as is some random flunkey from the Bo circle, and everyone goes home.
Peel back a layer, and you might see a different story.
2012/2013 is when China changes its highest leadership. Bo's predecessor in the Chongqing party seat was Wang Yang, now the head of Guangdong Province, the richest province in China (right next door to Hong Kong) and himself a rising star for the highest levels of Chinese government. Wang's predecessor was He Guoqiang, who now sits in that highest level of leadership, running that very same Party Organization Bureau that maintains promotion files for high-level Chinese officials, CEOs of Chinese megacorps, and the high command of the PLA.
When Bo took office, he decides to embark on a "Strike Black" campaign to boost his popularity for the 2012/2013 intra-party elections. From 2007 to 2011, Bo arrests and executes many former officials who served Messrs. Wang and He loyally, including the former police chief in Chongqing (who got replaced by Wang Lijun.) In doing so, he likely accumulated a dossier of dirt on those two other heavyweights, and probably pissed them off, or worse yet, scared them. In Chinese politics, nothing is worse than scaring someone who has more power than you, and that was why Bo had to go.
Peel back a third layer, though, and we get a different story. This one touches on ancient Chinese history. (Well, relatively ancient.)
When Wen Jiabao (China's current No.2 leader) was gently questioned about Chongqing shortly after the scandal broke, his answer was pretty goddamn extreme. He not only foreshadowed Bo's political execution, but defined Bo as the man who wanted to turn back the clock on China's decades-long effort to modernize. To paraphrase John Garnaut,
Wen framed the struggle over Bo's legacy as a choice between urgent political reforms and "such historical tragedies as the Cultural Revolution," culminating a 30-year battle for two radically different versions of China, of which Bo Xilai and Wen Jiabao are the ideological heirs. In Wen's world, bringing down Bo is the first step in a battle between China's Maoist past and a more democratic future as personified by his beloved mentor, 1980s Communist Party chief Hu Yaobang.
Hu Yaobang (the white coat and tie), early 1980s. The two guys to his right? Hu Jintao and Wen Jiabao, the current No. 1 and No. 2 leaders of China. (And yes, those two were best friends back then... and still are.)
In this story, then, the reason Bo is getting punished is because of what Bo did in the Cultural Revolution, as well as what he did to boost civic spirit in Chongqing; order citizens to re-embrace the Cultural Revolution.
The Cultural Revolution was a shitty time for China. The whole country engaged in open warfare on any sort of class hiearchy, which meant the country, led by a bunch of teenagers (really, just teenagers) engaged in open warfare against all government officials and men of learning except those that aligned closest with Mao. Bo Xilai's own father, Bo Yibo, was swept up in this too--he was cast out, disgraced. Bo's mother committed suicide (or was murdered, no one really knows.) And what did Bo do?
He engaged in struggle sessions against his own parents to avoid getting politically hurt. Basically he would go up to his own dad, and in public, yell at him and humiliate him and hit him. In any culture, this would be regarded as spineless behavior; in Chinese culture, with its emphasis on the family, this was regarded as the lowest of the low. And guess what? People remembered this shit, remembered Bo Xilai as that little kid who couldn't stand up straight for his own dad, remembered Bo as the kid who would say anything to get ahead, remembered Bo as the spineless one who, in the words of Wen Jiabao and Hu Yaobang, was "less than human" (不是人). These criticisms stick, because most of China's current leadership came of age in the Cultural Revolution, and they all got promoted by their predecessors, who (including Hu Yaobang, and Deng Xiaoping himself) were often the ones getting humiliated by those teenaged Red Guards.
In this regard, then, Wen is the primary repudiator of Bo, and he does it because Bo is bringing back terrible memories and threatening to lead China down that road again.
But not even this is the deepest layer. At the core of the onion lies the old idiom: "follow the money."
When Bo became Chongqing's party chief in 2007, Chongqing had about 25 billion dollars in debt. When he left, in 2011, he added on 50 billion more in debt, as well as another 70-80 billion more outside official balance sheets.
Bo took the whole "splurge and get promoted" mentality and took it to an extreme level. He spent a billion dollars planting trees, for example--trees that experts say will die in 10 years from the shitty air quality, but that look good right now. And he used more billions to puff up Chongqing's state owned companies, at the expense of private interests.
So he had to go. Why? Privatization plans, baby. The top leaders know there's a giant debt bubble coming--they know that they're stuck in the same debt trap the Japanese were in the late 80s--and they're going to solve it with a wave of privatizations. The idea is--offload all the crap to foreigners and Chinese private citizens who don't know better, recapitalize the system, and also permanently change the "reward metric" while they're at it to something more closely aligned with popularity, like elections.
It's a good idea. It's what many top Chinese leaders have spent years prepping themselves for--just look at Wen Jiabao's own son, who has set up a private equity fund, New Horizon, itching to take stakes in newly formed ex-State-Owned Enterprises, or Zhu Rongji's son's investment bank, CICC, and their 资本运作 (capital operations) plans for the 100 biggest Chinese public companies (drafted with the expertise of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan). The idea? Toss the baby out with the bathwater, but make sure that the baby lands with the connected and loyal Party functionaries. This way, China still remains owned by the same people, even if politicians are now elected. It's grand. I tip my hat in respect, good sirs.
How will they sell it? By giving the Chinese people more freedom--by finally giving in to those demands of the Tiananmen protestors, to the legacy of Hu Yaobang. Such sweet irony. To those who died in 1989, I thank you--your slogans are about to make some people very, very rich. (Remember those informal stakes in SOEs I mentioned earlier? Well, now they're all about to become legal.)
But Bo's methods are a throwback, an anachorism, an ugly wart--Bo wants the resources to remain in State hands. And so Bo has to go, because he did the only thing that's worse than making someone more powerful scared of him: he stepped between power and money, and in China (or anywhere, for that matter), if you do that, you die.
So there you have it. The true shape.
And the best part about it?
After all is said and done, the West will welcome China to the table as a modern economy, a prosperous democracy, as a nation just like them, yet another Elephant.
|
One of the most well formatted and thought out posts I've seen in the last year on Team Liquid.
This is exactly how you appear educated and knowledgeable about what you're talking about. Thank you very much for this read.
|
I agree with Butterednuts. :D But I just wanna know how/where you received your education on China.
|
Fascinating reading i tip my hat to you sir, if i had one that is.
|
On September 05 2012 22:11 aznboi918 wrote: I agree with Butterednuts. :D But I just wanna know how/where you received your education on China.
growing up in a chinese family... my grandparents... working in a chinese state bank for a summer
|
+ Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 21:57 Shady Sands wrote:
My parents often liked to use an idiom called 瞎子摸象, or "a blind man touching an elephant." The idiom basically refers to the fact that some topics of knowledge are so vast as to be essentially unknowable or unfathomable; that like blind men trying to determine the shape of an elephant by feeling only the trunk, the tail, or the legs, we may get completely wrong answers relying on our highly imperfect senses. I had the (mis)fortune of growing up under two PhDs. They really wanted me to go into the hard sciences, so whenever I started talking about how interesting social sciences were to me, that's what they would say--"Econ is like a blind man trying to touch an elephant"; "Sociology is like..."; "Political science is like..."; "Public policy is like..." etc. Ironically enough, I get this feeling a lot when I read Western news stories about China. Every self-respecting Western news house has released giant exposes on China in the past decade. Every news personality and academic, it seems has had something to say about the Middle Kingdom. And more often than not, they're like blind men and an elephant. On one side, some will look at rising protests and corruption and conclude the Chinese government is unstable. Others will look at the rising military spending and conclude the Chinese government is hell-bent on pushing its boundaries with waves of cruise missiles, stealth jets, and submarines. On the other side, people will crow about the unlimited potential of the Chinese economy, and the government's insane ability to get big things done as proof positive that China will ascend toward to national greatness... or as proof that China will one day eclipse the United States and subject Americans to some unspeakable tribulations (like forcing the US to repay the debt by running a trade surplus with China. The horror!) And they're all right, and yet all wrong. There is one way to take off the blindfold when figuring out the elephant in the room, however. And that's with an American idiom first coined by Deep Throat--"follow the money." In Communist China, follow the smiling Mao on the hundred-Yuan note, and everything else can be divined. Let's start with some history though, since it's cool shit.
In 1978, a group of eighteen Anhui farmers, led by the only one amongst them who could read, agreed to break the law by signing a secret agreement to divid the land, the local People's Commune, into family plots. Each family would turn over a portion of the produce to the government, while keeping the surplus from that plot for themselves. They also agreed that should one of them be caught and sentenced to death, the other villagers would raise their children until they were 18 years old. That year, their village produced a harvest larger than the the past five years combined. Per capita annual income in the village went from 22 yuan to 400 yuan. Before long, the central government found out. The villagers were fortunate that they had this man in charge and not Mao Zedong: The true macro Terran. Flash has nothing on this guy.Deng Xiaoping decided shortly before those farmers began their experiment that being socialist did not mean being equally poor, and decided to change China by embracing capitalist reform. But before he could embark on this grand plan, he had to accomplish three things beforehand: 1) Deal with residual hard-line elements within China. 2) Gain an export market that could provide technology and a source of aggregate demand that would constantly tug Chinese companies upward to a more competitive level. 3) Scare China's neighbors so much that they wouldn't cause any trouble while China did its massive reform policy. How to do this? With the Uriah gambit, of course. In the morning David wrote a letter to Joab and sent it with Uriah. In it he wrote, "Put Uriah out in front where the fighting is fiercest. Then withdraw from him so he will be struck down and die."--2 Samuel 11:14-15And so, a mere 3 months after the farmers in Anhui decided to go capitalist, Deng executed his plan.
On the morning of February 17, 1979, the mists of northern Vietnam were once again broken apart by airstrikes, artillery, and the sounds of men in battle. Eighteen fully equipped PLA infantry and armored divisions invaded northern Vietnam--nearly 200,000 men and hundreds of aircraft and tanks. A curious thing happened a few days before the assaults. Normally, PLA ground offensives are conducted with little advance warning, but here, American KH-9 Big Bird satellites saw the troop buildup prior to the invasion, and in his January state visit, Deng was quizzed about the buildups. He confirmed them, in public.Why? Because Deng wanted the war to be messy. Let's back up for a second. Deng knows that he's sitting on a demographic surplus: China has just enacted the one-child policy; it is going to enter a huge boom period where there are a whole bunch of working adults with relatively fewer children to look after and even fewer elderly. China needs to tap into this resource and prosper, much like if it was an oil kingdom that discovered an oil field which would go away after 50 years. Deng knows that the only country that can absorb the surplus output while improving his economy is the United States. The US has all the social institutions in place to give away its aggregate demand to the rest of the world by absorbing exports; it has them in place because it used those institutions to keep Western Europe and Japan under its control. Deng now wants to plug China into those institutions, but he's gotta demonstrate good faith to the Americans. On the home front, Deng has a whole bunch of cranky generals and party leaders who hate this idea and love autarky/engaging the rest of the world with guns and revolution. Internationally, the Soviets look down on China, the Indians sneer at China, Japan sneers at China, and even piddly little Vietnam and Thailand brag that they could kick China's ass. By invading Vietnam and making the war a complete mess for both sides, he gains brownie points from the US for slaughtering the guys that humiliated the Americans, while also putting the PLA in its place by showing them that their retardation regarding warfare also means those hardliners should not be given influence over domestic policy. Also, since Chinese troops were not bound the rules of engagement that US troops operated under (e.g. don't kill civilians and don't blow everything up) they could accomplish part three of their mission quite well, scaring the shit out of everyone around them. (It also helped that Deng mobilized 1.5 million more troops, daring any other country around China to intervene.) And so 60,000 Vietnamese and Chinese troops had to die, all in the span of less than a month; by far the bloodiest war in terms of deaths/day in post-WW2 history. In addition, the Chinese flattened the city of Lang Son with fuel air explosives and incendiary artillery while their own troops and Vietnamese troops were still fighting for it, killing 10-15,000 Viet civilians too, and bombed/dismantled every railway/road bridge and industrial facility between Hanoi and the Chinese border. It was worth it. The consensus forged here--economic growth sparked by export zones; a Western target market; the CCP in charge, with reform-minded but politically autocratic leaders--was so strong that it could withstand the dual challenge posed 10 years later by a bunch of kids who refused to eat. And no country dared take advantage of China's policy shift over the next thirty years, not even when those starving kids got run over by tanks and China's international influence was at its nadir.
The hunger games of Beijing happened in May and June of 1989. China had finished a long period of development, but bad shit--inflation, corruption, and a population that wanted the truth rather than money--was starting to get in the way. Deng decided to do his Vietnam strategy and discredit the hardliners while scaring his domestic and foreign opponents by washing their hands in blood and blaming everybody except himself for the carnage. When the dust cleared, Deng traveled south, in 1992, and restarted economic reform; this time, he decided to fold the hard-liners into the process by giving them all cuts of lucrative state owned enterprises, which ironically placed the new arbiters of power, the Chinese financial mandarins in the National Development and Reform Commission, and the Ministries of Commerce and Finance, in a position of influence over their old masters, since these mandarins, led by reformist premier Zhu Rongji, now could determine which enterprises lived, and which died. The WTO ascension in 2001 threw this whole game into fast forward. Had Deng still been alive, he probably would have done a fist-pump, because with Hong Kong, and Macau integrated, and China in the WTO, China had finally emerged from the long shadow of the 1840s Opium War--and China had done it with his strategies, his ideas. And for a time after that, all was good. The Dengist consensus stood. China would stay politically stable, and get rich via investment-driven and export-driven growth. Simple. But now cracks began appearing in the facade.
Here is where we talk about money. How does China make money and make its GDP? In the beginning, development was capital intensive and capital went into productivity gains. Things like better technology, for example, or highway and rail links from manufacturing greenfields to ports. Gradually, though, China has been hitting a point of diminishing returns with this model. But the growth model still uses up capital like a Chinese girlfriend uses up toilet paper (date one and you'll know). Even though logically the system should be dispensing less capital, it still dispenses moar and moar. Why? Because this is the root of the Dengist model. Deng wanted fast development. The only way to do this, his advisors told him, was to socialize the cost of capital, while privatizing the benefits of using it successfully. And it's true. That's the insight they never tell you in Econ. So much of economic growth hinges on intangible input variables which boil down to a simple thing: "animal spirits". And then they tell you that human beings are risk-averse. Put two and two together, and what happens? Well when the world is full of cowards, the only way to get people pumped up enough to take a risk is to take risk out of the equation, by letting people make money with other people's money (to paraphrase two of my personal heroes, Aristotle Onassis and Adnan Khashoggi.) When this works, you get an Asian Tiger or West Germany. When it doesn't, you get Nigeria. But China is neither. Why? Because Deng took this one step further. In most of these "other people's money" systems, it's the merchant class that leads the way. With Deng, he made sure that the flagbearers would be merchant-bureaucracy hybrids, because this is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics we're talking here, and how long could the Revolutionary Proletarian Vanguard (tm) survive if China's best and brightest did not see it as a route to serving the people getting filthy rich and banging Zhang Ziyi in the back of your chauffered, government-issue Audi right outside the gates of a preschool? (Someone actually did that. Chauffeurs have zero practice holding their liquor, so they will spill all their secrets when they're drunk) And what of the rewards for success? In those other systems, when you succeed in building up your chaebol/zaibatsu/GmBH, you became *oppa gangnam style*. But in China, you can't do that directly, and sometimes the rewards are different. Quick case example: Let's say you're doing a pretty decent job in a central government institution in Beijing. You get promoted to a vice section chief in one of the ministries. So the Party Organization Bureau decides to give you a challenge--they parachute you into a party secretary seat in a midsized Chinese rust belt city. You're young enough to be eligible for promotion to province party head. But you're not alone. Two other guys are also parachuted into other cities in the province. And the Party Organization Bureau has been careful to pick only certain guys--let's say that other dude stole your sweetheart while both of you studied at Tsinghua--that you hate, and that hate you. Well now you and him are locked in a competition to build up your cities. Imagine this as a game of Simcity on crack, and just like in Simcity, everything takes money. So you go hat in hand to the banks. Now begins the courtship. The banks are themselves beholden to patrons higher up, so you go and align yourself with a patron. The patron (lets say he's a politburo guy who knows your dad... or if you're lucky, who is your dad) sets up a meeting. You make the pitch. Here's how a pitch to a Chinese bank happens. You go in, you make a presentation. Afterwards, all the poor interns and analysts, as well as your mayoral aides, get shoved off to one conference room with some cheap take-out where they hammer out the specifics of the deal and argue over numbers... or just talk about the Premier League and pretend to work. Meanwhile, you and the big boys from the bank drink and toast to each other, and drunkenly bellow phrases like "能做成这件事情,真亏XXXX...XXXX万岁!" (this deal owes so much to XXXX, ten thousand years to XXXX!) where XXXX is the name of your mutual patron and ten-thousand years, the honorific normally reserved for Emperors. or the time-honored "喝! 喝! 每杯,一百万!" (Drink! Drink! Every shot, one million!), referring to the extra loan amounts you can get by hastening the onset of liver cancer. As you can probably guess, the pitch matters little. The whole meeting doesn't really matter. Ultimately your patron settles things, and you get the loan. Now you have the money. Well, not only that--the system knows you have the money, so it's going to expect you to boost GDP with it. If you don't, your patron will yell at you. So you put it in the things that naturally show up on the GDP charts the fastest--investment in real estate or industry. And voila. You win. You get your promotion. You can even skim a bit off the top and no one will notice--hey, it's expected, it's your reward for taking risks with other people's money. And what's more, if you advertise your city the most, build the most shiny (vacant) malls and beautiful (empty) apartment blocks and sprawling (idle) factory complexes, then you get promoted over your hated rival--and now, in addition to being *oppa gangnam style*, you can in watch your rival beg for mercy as you sentence him to 10 years of hard labor for embezzling money with the same methods you used... and you can look into the eyes of the woman who rejected you 20 years ago in college and say "看来你当初选错了...可惜现在后悔也来不及了" "guess you chose wrong back in the day. well TOO LATE BITCH" (Someone actually did this, too.) See what I mean about Simcity on crack? And once the promotion happens, it repeats; you're now playing Civilization 5 on crack with the province you just inherited. Now, for a while, this method actually generated a lot of real improvement, because China was so underdeveloped that you could throw real estate, infrastructure, or industry anywhere and it would help out--and China had that "demographic dividend" from the one-child policy restricting its giant working age population from having kids to supercharge the "build it and they will come" approach. But now there's enough of it. China needs to change its growth model. But change ain't easy; while some rare people lead by example, everyone follows by example, and the people at the top, nowadays, got there by walking this route (Xi Jinping in Fuzhou, Li Keqiang in Henan and Liaoning). But these new leaders aren't dumb. They know that the jig is up. China's almost out of cash, and that fact becomes more and more apparent each day in spite of all the made-up statistics. How to tell all the underlings below them though, without leaving the blood on their hands? Who do they find to make an example of? Enter Bo Xilai. This is where we go back to history again.
In March, Bo Xilai, hotshot and rising star of Chinese politics, was sacked from his position as the Party Chief of Chongqing, a megacity of over 100 million people and the land area of Austria. (China places its four megacities--Shanghai, Beijing, Tianjin, and Chongqing--on a political level equal to provinces.) On the surface, Secretary Bo was sacked because of a scandal. The quick details: his wife was involved with some British dude named Neil Heywood (whether sexually or just financially, no one knows.) Neil helped Mrs. Bo shift cash out of the country for safekeeping, and also helped Bo Junior get admitted into Harrow and later Oxford. Well, they had a falling out over the size of the fees Neil got for doing this, so Neil was murdered. Then the police chief of Chongqing, Wang Lijun, supposedly Bo's right-hand man ever since his days as a mere mayor of Dalian, was told to cover things up, but instead told Bo that he was uncomfortable doing this. Bo vaccilated a few days between tossing his wife under the bus or covering it up, and instead decided to do a full on cover-up, which included placing his right hand man in a soft form of house arrest. Wang Lijun says "fuck this shit", and decides to escape to the US Consulate, where he eventually walks out a day later into the hands of the Chinese central government to testify against his former provincial boss. Mrs. Bo is convicted, as is some random flunkey from the Bo circle, and everyone goes home. Peel back a layer, and you might see a different story. 2012/2013 is when China changes its highest leadership. Bo's predecessor in the Chongqing party seat was Wang Yang, now the head of Guangdong Province, the richest province in China (right next door to Hong Kong) and himself a rising star for the highest levels of Chinese government. Wang's predecessor was He Guoqiang, who now sits in that highest level of leadership, running that very same Party Organization Bureau that maintains promotion files for high-level Chinese officials, CEOs of Chinese megacorps, and the high command of the PLA. When Bo took office, he decides to embark on a "Strike Black" campaign to boost his popularity for the 2012/2013 intra-party elections. From 2007 to 2011, Bo arrests and executes many former officials who served Messrs. Wang and He loyally, including the former police chief in Chongqing (who got replaced by Wang Lijun.) In doing so, he likely accumulated a dossier of dirt on those two other heavyweights, and probably pissed them off, or worse yet, scared them. In Chinese politics, nothing is worse than scaring someone who has more power than you, and that was why Bo had to go. Peel back a third layer, though, and we get a different story. This one touches on ancient Chinese history. (Well, relatively ancient.) When Wen Jiabao (China's current No.2 leader) was gently questioned about Chongqing shortly after the scandal broke, his answer was pretty goddamn extreme. He not only foreshadowed Bo's political execution, but defined Bo as the man who wanted to turn back the clock on China's decades-long effort to modernize. To paraphrase John Garnaut, Show nested quote +Wen framed the struggle over Bo's legacy as a choice between urgent political reforms and "such historical tragedies as the Cultural Revolution," culminating a 30-year battle for two radically different versions of China, of which Bo Xilai and Wen Jiabao are the ideological heirs. In Wen's world, bringing down Bo is the first step in a battle between China's Maoist past and a more democratic future as personified by his beloved mentor, 1980s Communist Party chief Hu Yaobang. Hu Yaobang (the white coat and tie), early 1980s. The two guys to his right? Hu Jintao and Wen Jiabao, the current No. 1 and No. 2 leaders of China. (And yes, those two were best friends back then... and still are.)In this story, then, the reason Bo is getting punished is because of what Bo did in the Cultural Revolution, as well as what he did to boost civic spirit in Chongqing; order citizens to re-embrace the Cultural Revolution. The Cultural Revolution was a shitty time for China. The whole country engaged in open warfare on any sort of class hiearchy, which meant the country, led by a bunch of teenagers (really, just teenagers) engaged in open warfare against all government officials and men of learning except those that aligned closest with Mao. Bo Xilai's own father, Bo Yibo, was swept up in this too--he was cast out, disgraced. Bo's mother committed suicide (or was murdered, no one really knows.) And what did Bo do? He engaged in struggle sessions against his own parents to avoid getting politically hurt. Basically he would go up to his own dad, and in public, yell at him and humiliate him and hit him. In any culture, this would be regarded as spineless behavior; in Chinese culture, with its emphasis on the family, this was regarded as the lowest of the low. And guess what? People remembered this shit, remembered Bo Xilai as that little kid who couldn't stand up straight for his own dad, remembered Bo as the kid who would say anything to get ahead, remembered Bo as the spineless one who, in the words of Wen Jiabao and Hu Yaobang, was "less than human" (不是人). These criticisms stick, because most of China's current leadership came of age in the Cultural Revolution, and they all got promoted by their predecessors, who (including Hu Yaobang, and Deng Xiaoping himself) were often the ones getting humiliated by those teenaged Red Guards. In this regard, then, Wen is the primary repudiator of Bo, and he does it because Bo is bringing back terrible memories and threatening to lead China down that road again. But not even this is the deepest layer. At the core of the onion lies the old idiom: "follow the money."
When Bo became Chongqing's party chief in 2007, Chongqing had about 25 billion dollars in debt. When he left, in 2011, he added on 50 billion more in debt, as well as another 70-80 billion more outside official balance sheets. Bo took the whole "splurge and get promoted" mentality and took it to an extreme level. He spent a billion dollars planting trees, for example--trees that experts say will die in 10 years from the shitty air quality, but that look good right now. And he used more billions to puff up Chongqing's state owned companies, at the expense of private interests. So he had to go. Why? Privatization plans, baby. The top leaders know there's a giant debt bubble coming--they know that they're stuck in the same debt trap the Japanese were in the late 80s--and they're going to solve it with a wave of privatizations. The idea is--offload all the crap to foreigners and Chinese private citizens who don't know better, recapitalize the system, and also permanently change the "reward metric" while they're at it to something more closely aligned with popularity, like elections. It's a good idea. It's what many top Chinese leaders have spent years prepping themselves for--just look at Wen Jiabao's own son, who has set up a private equity fund, New Horizon, itching to take stakes in newly formed ex-State-Owned Enterprises, or Zhu Rongji's son's investment bank, CICC, and their 资本运作 (capital operations) plans for the 100 biggest Chinese public companies (drafted with the expertise of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan). The idea? Toss the baby out with the bathwater, but make sure that the baby lands with the connected and loyal Party functionaries. This way, China still remains owned by the same people, even if politicians are now elected. It's grand. I tip my hat in respect, good sirs. How will they sell it? By giving the Chinese people more freedom--by finally giving in to those demands of the Tiananmen protestors, to the legacy of Hu Yaobang. Such sweet irony. To those who died in 1989, I thank you--your slogans are about to make some people very, very rich. (Remember those informal stakes in SOEs I mentioned earlier? Well, now they're all about to become legal.) But Bo's methods are a throwback, an anachorism, an ugly wart--Bo wants the resources to remain in State hands. And so Bo has to go, because he did the only thing that's worse than making someone more powerful scared of him: he stepped between power and money, and in China (or anywhere, for that matter), if you do that, you die. So there you have it. The true shape. And the best part about it? After all is said and done, the West will welcome China to the table as a modern economy, a prosperous democracy, as a nation just like them, yet another Elephant.
Sorry to say but : TL;DR, can you provide a short version of your findings/conclusions, to the point (the ones that driven you writing that lengthy post ?) By all means, I'm willing to read your whole dissertation if you give me a good reason for ("another Elephant" doesn't seems to be appealing ).
User was warned for this post
|
On September 05 2012 22:05 Butterednuts wrote: One of the most well formatted and thought out posts I've seen in the last year on Team Liquid.
This is exactly how you appear educated and knowledgeable about what you're talking about. Thank you very much for this read.
And you had time to read the entire thing before you posted?
However, it was exactly as you said. But read it before making a "first" post! 
I welcome China.
|
Nice to finally see a good thread on China here on TL
|
Thank you so much.
This is great. I'm in China right now and it is one of the most intriguing countries I have ever been to. Politics and economics are so intertwined here and I would love to learn more about this country and the way it works. Thanks so much
|
Can only agree, awesome post it was a pleasure to read.(the music is verry much apreciated !) Did learn quiet a few new and interesting things.
Not sure i understood everything correctly and the core of the message,so just to reasure myself.
China is preparing to become a democracy. Before they become a democracy the leaders wich are in place now want to make sure they keep control over the most valuable items china has, so that they will stay in powerfull positions no matter what happens with the election. To achieve this , and at the same time avoid the debt trap wich is looming ,they will privatise all state owned property before democracy/elections so that favoured partymembers can get the most valuable assets at a verry low cost, this guarantees their control over china,s economy after a possible democratisation of china. ?
It would be a huge thing to see china become a democracy and i realy hope to see that in my lifetime, though i never realy expected that to become true. I didnt knew it was this close to becoming true,from reading your post i get the impression it could be done within 10 years from now. What time scedule do you have in mind for this if might ask?
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
yea but rent seeking and land value. not gonna happen
|
On September 05 2012 22:42 Rassy wrote: Can only agree, awesome post it was a pleasure to read.(the music is verry much apreciated !) Did learn quiet a few new and interesting things.
Not sure i understood everything correctly and the core of the message,so just to reasure myself.
China is preparing to become a democracy. Before they become a democracy the leaders wich are in place now want to make sure they keep control over the most valuable items china has, so that they will stay in powerfull positions no matter what happens with the election. To achieve this , and at the same time avoid the debt trap wich is looming ,they will privatise all state owned property before democracy/elections so that favoured partymembers can get the most valuable assets at a verry low cost, this guarantees their control over china,s economy after a possible democratisation of china. ? You got it exactly right here
It would be a huge thing to see china become a democracy and i realy hope to see that in my lifetime, though i never realy expected that to become true. I didnt knew it was this close to becoming true,from reading your post i get the impression it could be done within 10 years from now. What time scedule do you have in mind for this if might ask? Probably in another 6-7 years. China is going to go through a pretty hard economic landing, and Xi and Li are going to put the blame for that on the hardliners. Then China is going to go semi-democratic
|
On September 05 2012 22:21 HomeWorld wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 21:57 Shady Sands wrote:
My parents often liked to use an idiom called 瞎子摸象, or "a blind man touching an elephant." The idiom basically refers to the fact that some topics of knowledge are so vast as to be essentially unknowable or unfathomable; that like blind men trying to determine the shape of an elephant by feeling only the trunk, the tail, or the legs, we may get completely wrong answers relying on our highly imperfect senses. I had the (mis)fortune of growing up under two PhDs. They really wanted me to go into the hard sciences, so whenever I started talking about how interesting social sciences were to me, that's what they would say--"Econ is like a blind man trying to touch an elephant"; "Sociology is like..."; "Political science is like..."; "Public policy is like..." etc. Ironically enough, I get this feeling a lot when I read Western news stories about China. Every self-respecting Western news house has released giant exposes on China in the past decade. Every news personality and academic, it seems has had something to say about the Middle Kingdom. And more often than not, they're like blind men and an elephant. On one side, some will look at rising protests and corruption and conclude the Chinese government is unstable. Others will look at the rising military spending and conclude the Chinese government is hell-bent on pushing its boundaries with waves of cruise missiles, stealth jets, and submarines. On the other side, people will crow about the unlimited potential of the Chinese economy, and the government's insane ability to get big things done as proof positive that China will ascend toward to national greatness... or as proof that China will one day eclipse the United States and subject Americans to some unspeakable tribulations (like forcing the US to repay the debt by running a trade surplus with China. The horror!) And they're all right, and yet all wrong. There is one way to take off the blindfold when figuring out the elephant in the room, however. And that's with an American idiom first coined by Deep Throat--"follow the money." In Communist China, follow the smiling Mao on the hundred-Yuan note, and everything else can be divined. Let's start with some history though, since it's cool shit.
In 1978, a group of eighteen Anhui farmers, led by the only one amongst them who could read, agreed to break the law by signing a secret agreement to divid the land, the local People's Commune, into family plots. Each family would turn over a portion of the produce to the government, while keeping the surplus from that plot for themselves. They also agreed that should one of them be caught and sentenced to death, the other villagers would raise their children until they were 18 years old. That year, their village produced a harvest larger than the the past five years combined. Per capita annual income in the village went from 22 yuan to 400 yuan. Before long, the central government found out. The villagers were fortunate that they had this man in charge and not Mao Zedong: The true macro Terran. Flash has nothing on this guy.Deng Xiaoping decided shortly before those farmers began their experiment that being socialist did not mean being equally poor, and decided to change China by embracing capitalist reform. But before he could embark on this grand plan, he had to accomplish three things beforehand: 1) Deal with residual hard-line elements within China. 2) Gain an export market that could provide technology and a source of aggregate demand that would constantly tug Chinese companies upward to a more competitive level. 3) Scare China's neighbors so much that they wouldn't cause any trouble while China did its massive reform policy. How to do this? With the Uriah gambit, of course. In the morning David wrote a letter to Joab and sent it with Uriah. In it he wrote, "Put Uriah out in front where the fighting is fiercest. Then withdraw from him so he will be struck down and die."--2 Samuel 11:14-15And so, a mere 3 months after the farmers in Anhui decided to go capitalist, Deng executed his plan.
On the morning of February 17, 1979, the mists of northern Vietnam were once again broken apart by airstrikes, artillery, and the sounds of men in battle. Eighteen fully equipped PLA infantry and armored divisions invaded northern Vietnam--nearly 200,000 men and hundreds of aircraft and tanks. A curious thing happened a few days before the assaults. Normally, PLA ground offensives are conducted with little advance warning, but here, American KH-9 Big Bird satellites saw the troop buildup prior to the invasion, and in his January state visit, Deng was quizzed about the buildups. He confirmed them, in public.Why? Because Deng wanted the war to be messy. Let's back up for a second. Deng knows that he's sitting on a demographic surplus: China has just enacted the one-child policy; it is going to enter a huge boom period where there are a whole bunch of working adults with relatively fewer children to look after and even fewer elderly. China needs to tap into this resource and prosper, much like if it was an oil kingdom that discovered an oil field which would go away after 50 years. Deng knows that the only country that can absorb the surplus output while improving his economy is the United States. The US has all the social institutions in place to give away its aggregate demand to the rest of the world by absorbing exports; it has them in place because it used those institutions to keep Western Europe and Japan under its control. Deng now wants to plug China into those institutions, but he's gotta demonstrate good faith to the Americans. On the home front, Deng has a whole bunch of cranky generals and party leaders who hate this idea and love autarky/engaging the rest of the world with guns and revolution. Internationally, the Soviets look down on China, the Indians sneer at China, Japan sneers at China, and even piddly little Vietnam and Thailand brag that they could kick China's ass. By invading Vietnam and making the war a complete mess for both sides, he gains brownie points from the US for slaughtering the guys that humiliated the Americans, while also putting the PLA in its place by showing them that their retardation regarding warfare also means those hardliners should not be given influence over domestic policy. Also, since Chinese troops were not bound the rules of engagement that US troops operated under (e.g. don't kill civilians and don't blow everything up) they could accomplish part three of their mission quite well, scaring the shit out of everyone around them. (It also helped that Deng mobilized 1.5 million more troops, daring any other country around China to intervene.) And so 60,000 Vietnamese and Chinese troops had to die, all in the span of less than a month; by far the bloodiest war in terms of deaths/day in post-WW2 history. In addition, the Chinese flattened the city of Lang Son with fuel air explosives and incendiary artillery while their own troops and Vietnamese troops were still fighting for it, killing 10-15,000 Viet civilians too, and bombed/dismantled every railway/road bridge and industrial facility between Hanoi and the Chinese border. It was worth it. The consensus forged here--economic growth sparked by export zones; a Western target market; the CCP in charge, with reform-minded but politically autocratic leaders--was so strong that it could withstand the dual challenge posed 10 years later by a bunch of kids who refused to eat. And no country dared take advantage of China's policy shift over the next thirty years, not even when those starving kids got run over by tanks and China's international influence was at its nadir.
The hunger games of Beijing happened in May and June of 1989. China had finished a long period of development, but bad shit--inflation, corruption, and a population that wanted the truth rather than money--was starting to get in the way. Deng decided to do his Vietnam strategy and discredit the hardliners while scaring his domestic and foreign opponents by washing their hands in blood and blaming everybody except himself for the carnage. When the dust cleared, Deng traveled south, in 1992, and restarted economic reform; this time, he decided to fold the hard-liners into the process by giving them all cuts of lucrative state owned enterprises, which ironically placed the new arbiters of power, the Chinese financial mandarins in the National Development and Reform Commission, and the Ministries of Commerce and Finance, in a position of influence over their old masters, since these mandarins, led by reformist premier Zhu Rongji, now could determine which enterprises lived, and which died. The WTO ascension in 2001 threw this whole game into fast forward. Had Deng still been alive, he probably would have done a fist-pump, because with Hong Kong, and Macau integrated, and China in the WTO, China had finally emerged from the long shadow of the 1840s Opium War--and China had done it with his strategies, his ideas. And for a time after that, all was good. The Dengist consensus stood. China would stay politically stable, and get rich via investment-driven and export-driven growth. Simple. But now cracks began appearing in the facade.
Here is where we talk about money. How does China make money and make its GDP? In the beginning, development was capital intensive and capital went into productivity gains. Things like better technology, for example, or highway and rail links from manufacturing greenfields to ports. Gradually, though, China has been hitting a point of diminishing returns with this model. But the growth model still uses up capital like a Chinese girlfriend uses up toilet paper (date one and you'll know). Even though logically the system should be dispensing less capital, it still dispenses moar and moar. Why? Because this is the root of the Dengist model. Deng wanted fast development. The only way to do this, his advisors told him, was to socialize the cost of capital, while privatizing the benefits of using it successfully. And it's true. That's the insight they never tell you in Econ. So much of economic growth hinges on intangible input variables which boil down to a simple thing: "animal spirits". And then they tell you that human beings are risk-averse. Put two and two together, and what happens? Well when the world is full of cowards, the only way to get people pumped up enough to take a risk is to take risk out of the equation, by letting people make money with other people's money (to paraphrase two of my personal heroes, Aristotle Onassis and Adnan Khashoggi.) When this works, you get an Asian Tiger or West Germany. When it doesn't, you get Nigeria. But China is neither. Why? Because Deng took this one step further. In most of these "other people's money" systems, it's the merchant class that leads the way. With Deng, he made sure that the flagbearers would be merchant-bureaucracy hybrids, because this is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics we're talking here, and how long could the Revolutionary Proletarian Vanguard (tm) survive if China's best and brightest did not see it as a route to serving the people getting filthy rich and banging Zhang Ziyi in the back of your chauffered, government-issue Audi right outside the gates of a preschool? (Someone actually did that. Chauffeurs have zero practice holding their liquor, so they will spill all their secrets when they're drunk) And what of the rewards for success? In those other systems, when you succeed in building up your chaebol/zaibatsu/GmBH, you became *oppa gangnam style*. But in China, you can't do that directly, and sometimes the rewards are different. Quick case example: Let's say you're doing a pretty decent job in a central government institution in Beijing. You get promoted to a vice section chief in one of the ministries. So the Party Organization Bureau decides to give you a challenge--they parachute you into a party secretary seat in a midsized Chinese rust belt city. You're young enough to be eligible for promotion to province party head. But you're not alone. Two other guys are also parachuted into other cities in the province. And the Party Organization Bureau has been careful to pick only certain guys--let's say that other dude stole your sweetheart while both of you studied at Tsinghua--that you hate, and that hate you. Well now you and him are locked in a competition to build up your cities. Imagine this as a game of Simcity on crack, and just like in Simcity, everything takes money. So you go hat in hand to the banks. Now begins the courtship. The banks are themselves beholden to patrons higher up, so you go and align yourself with a patron. The patron (lets say he's a politburo guy who knows your dad... or if you're lucky, who is your dad) sets up a meeting. You make the pitch. Here's how a pitch to a Chinese bank happens. You go in, you make a presentation. Afterwards, all the poor interns and analysts, as well as your mayoral aides, get shoved off to one conference room with some cheap take-out where they hammer out the specifics of the deal and argue over numbers... or just talk about the Premier League and pretend to work. Meanwhile, you and the big boys from the bank drink and toast to each other, and drunkenly bellow phrases like "能做成这件事情,真亏XXXX...XXXX万岁!" (this deal owes so much to XXXX, ten thousand years to XXXX!) where XXXX is the name of your mutual patron and ten-thousand years, the honorific normally reserved for Emperors. or the time-honored "喝! 喝! 每杯,一百万!" (Drink! Drink! Every shot, one million!), referring to the extra loan amounts you can get by hastening the onset of liver cancer. As you can probably guess, the pitch matters little. The whole meeting doesn't really matter. Ultimately your patron settles things, and you get the loan. Now you have the money. Well, not only that--the system knows you have the money, so it's going to expect you to boost GDP with it. If you don't, your patron will yell at you. So you put it in the things that naturally show up on the GDP charts the fastest--investment in real estate or industry. And voila. You win. You get your promotion. You can even skim a bit off the top and no one will notice--hey, it's expected, it's your reward for taking risks with other people's money. And what's more, if you advertise your city the most, build the most shiny (vacant) malls and beautiful (empty) apartment blocks and sprawling (idle) factory complexes, then you get promoted over your hated rival--and now, in addition to being *oppa gangnam style*, you can in watch your rival beg for mercy as you sentence him to 10 years of hard labor for embezzling money with the same methods you used... and you can look into the eyes of the woman who rejected you 20 years ago in college and say "看来你当初选错了...可惜现在后悔也来不及了" "guess you chose wrong back in the day. well TOO LATE BITCH" (Someone actually did this, too.) See what I mean about Simcity on crack? And once the promotion happens, it repeats; you're now playing Civilization 5 on crack with the province you just inherited. Now, for a while, this method actually generated a lot of real improvement, because China was so underdeveloped that you could throw real estate, infrastructure, or industry anywhere and it would help out--and China had that "demographic dividend" from the one-child policy restricting its giant working age population from having kids to supercharge the "build it and they will come" approach. But now there's enough of it. China needs to change its growth model. But change ain't easy; while some rare people lead by example, everyone follows by example, and the people at the top, nowadays, got there by walking this route (Xi Jinping in Fuzhou, Li Keqiang in Henan and Liaoning). But these new leaders aren't dumb. They know that the jig is up. China's almost out of cash, and that fact becomes more and more apparent each day in spite of all the made-up statistics. How to tell all the underlings below them though, without leaving the blood on their hands? Who do they find to make an example of? Enter Bo Xilai. This is where we go back to history again.
In March, Bo Xilai, hotshot and rising star of Chinese politics, was sacked from his position as the Party Chief of Chongqing, a megacity of over 100 million people and the land area of Austria. (China places its four megacities--Shanghai, Beijing, Tianjin, and Chongqing--on a political level equal to provinces.) On the surface, Secretary Bo was sacked because of a scandal. The quick details: his wife was involved with some British dude named Neil Heywood (whether sexually or just financially, no one knows.) Neil helped Mrs. Bo shift cash out of the country for safekeeping, and also helped Bo Junior get admitted into Harrow and later Oxford. Well, they had a falling out over the size of the fees Neil got for doing this, so Neil was murdered. Then the police chief of Chongqing, Wang Lijun, supposedly Bo's right-hand man ever since his days as a mere mayor of Dalian, was told to cover things up, but instead told Bo that he was uncomfortable doing this. Bo vaccilated a few days between tossing his wife under the bus or covering it up, and instead decided to do a full on cover-up, which included placing his right hand man in a soft form of house arrest. Wang Lijun says "fuck this shit", and decides to escape to the US Consulate, where he eventually walks out a day later into the hands of the Chinese central government to testify against his former provincial boss. Mrs. Bo is convicted, as is some random flunkey from the Bo circle, and everyone goes home. Peel back a layer, and you might see a different story. 2012/2013 is when China changes its highest leadership. Bo's predecessor in the Chongqing party seat was Wang Yang, now the head of Guangdong Province, the richest province in China (right next door to Hong Kong) and himself a rising star for the highest levels of Chinese government. Wang's predecessor was He Guoqiang, who now sits in that highest level of leadership, running that very same Party Organization Bureau that maintains promotion files for high-level Chinese officials, CEOs of Chinese megacorps, and the high command of the PLA. When Bo took office, he decides to embark on a "Strike Black" campaign to boost his popularity for the 2012/2013 intra-party elections. From 2007 to 2011, Bo arrests and executes many former officials who served Messrs. Wang and He loyally, including the former police chief in Chongqing (who got replaced by Wang Lijun.) In doing so, he likely accumulated a dossier of dirt on those two other heavyweights, and probably pissed them off, or worse yet, scared them. In Chinese politics, nothing is worse than scaring someone who has more power than you, and that was why Bo had to go. Peel back a third layer, though, and we get a different story. This one touches on ancient Chinese history. (Well, relatively ancient.) When Wen Jiabao (China's current No.2 leader) was gently questioned about Chongqing shortly after the scandal broke, his answer was pretty goddamn extreme. He not only foreshadowed Bo's political execution, but defined Bo as the man who wanted to turn back the clock on China's decades-long effort to modernize. To paraphrase John Garnaut, Show nested quote +Wen framed the struggle over Bo's legacy as a choice between urgent political reforms and "such historical tragedies as the Cultural Revolution," culminating a 30-year battle for two radically different versions of China, of which Bo Xilai and Wen Jiabao are the ideological heirs. In Wen's world, bringing down Bo is the first step in a battle between China's Maoist past and a more democratic future as personified by his beloved mentor, 1980s Communist Party chief Hu Yaobang. Hu Yaobang (the white coat and tie), early 1980s. The two guys to his right? Hu Jintao and Wen Jiabao, the current No. 1 and No. 2 leaders of China. (And yes, those two were best friends back then... and still are.)In this story, then, the reason Bo is getting punished is because of what Bo did in the Cultural Revolution, as well as what he did to boost civic spirit in Chongqing; order citizens to re-embrace the Cultural Revolution. The Cultural Revolution was a shitty time for China. The whole country engaged in open warfare on any sort of class hiearchy, which meant the country, led by a bunch of teenagers (really, just teenagers) engaged in open warfare against all government officials and men of learning except those that aligned closest with Mao. Bo Xilai's own father, Bo Yibo, was swept up in this too--he was cast out, disgraced. Bo's mother committed suicide (or was murdered, no one really knows.) And what did Bo do? He engaged in struggle sessions against his own parents to avoid getting politically hurt. Basically he would go up to his own dad, and in public, yell at him and humiliate him and hit him. In any culture, this would be regarded as spineless behavior; in Chinese culture, with its emphasis on the family, this was regarded as the lowest of the low. And guess what? People remembered this shit, remembered Bo Xilai as that little kid who couldn't stand up straight for his own dad, remembered Bo as the kid who would say anything to get ahead, remembered Bo as the spineless one who, in the words of Wen Jiabao and Hu Yaobang, was "less than human" (不是人). These criticisms stick, because most of China's current leadership came of age in the Cultural Revolution, and they all got promoted by their predecessors, who (including Hu Yaobang, and Deng Xiaoping himself) were often the ones getting humiliated by those teenaged Red Guards. In this regard, then, Wen is the primary repudiator of Bo, and he does it because Bo is bringing back terrible memories and threatening to lead China down that road again. But not even this is the deepest layer. At the core of the onion lies the old idiom: "follow the money."
When Bo became Chongqing's party chief in 2007, Chongqing had about 25 billion dollars in debt. When he left, in 2011, he added on 50 billion more in debt, as well as another 70-80 billion more outside official balance sheets. Bo took the whole "splurge and get promoted" mentality and took it to an extreme level. He spent a billion dollars planting trees, for example--trees that experts say will die in 10 years from the shitty air quality, but that look good right now. And he used more billions to puff up Chongqing's state owned companies, at the expense of private interests. So he had to go. Why? Privatization plans, baby. The top leaders know there's a giant debt bubble coming--they know that they're stuck in the same debt trap the Japanese were in the late 80s--and they're going to solve it with a wave of privatizations. The idea is--offload all the crap to foreigners and Chinese private citizens who don't know better, recapitalize the system, and also permanently change the "reward metric" while they're at it to something more closely aligned with popularity, like elections. It's a good idea. It's what many top Chinese leaders have spent years prepping themselves for--just look at Wen Jiabao's own son, who has set up a private equity fund, New Horizon, itching to take stakes in newly formed ex-State-Owned Enterprises, or Zhu Rongji's son's investment bank, CICC, and their 资本运作 (capital operations) plans for the 100 biggest Chinese public companies (drafted with the expertise of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan). The idea? Toss the baby out with the bathwater, but make sure that the baby lands with the connected and loyal Party functionaries. This way, China still remains owned by the same people, even if politicians are now elected. It's grand. I tip my hat in respect, good sirs. How will they sell it? By giving the Chinese people more freedom--by finally giving in to those demands of the Tiananmen protestors, to the legacy of Hu Yaobang. Such sweet irony. To those who died in 1989, I thank you--your slogans are about to make some people very, very rich. (Remember those informal stakes in SOEs I mentioned earlier? Well, now they're all about to become legal.) But Bo's methods are a throwback, an anachorism, an ugly wart--Bo wants the resources to remain in State hands. And so Bo has to go, because he did the only thing that's worse than making someone more powerful scared of him: he stepped between power and money, and in China (or anywhere, for that matter), if you do that, you die. So there you have it. The true shape. And the best part about it? After all is said and done, the West will welcome China to the table as a modern economy, a prosperous democracy, as a nation just like them, yet another Elephant. Sorry to say but : TL;DR, can you provide a short version of your findings/conclusions, to the point (the ones that driven you writing that lengthy post ?) By all means, I'm willing to read your whole dissertation if you give me a good reason for ("another Elephant" doesn't seems to be appealing  ).
Read Rassy's post below yours
|
On September 05 2012 22:21 HomeWorld wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 21:57 Shady Sands wrote:
My parents often liked to use an idiom called 瞎子摸象, or "a blind man touching an elephant." The idiom basically refers to the fact that some topics of knowledge are so vast as to be essentially unknowable or unfathomable; that like blind men trying to determine the shape of an elephant by feeling only the trunk, the tail, or the legs, we may get completely wrong answers relying on our highly imperfect senses. I had the (mis)fortune of growing up under two PhDs. They really wanted me to go into the hard sciences, so whenever I started talking about how interesting social sciences were to me, that's what they would say--"Econ is like a blind man trying to touch an elephant"; "Sociology is like..."; "Political science is like..."; "Public policy is like..." etc. Ironically enough, I get this feeling a lot when I read Western news stories about China. Every self-respecting Western news house has released giant exposes on China in the past decade. Every news personality and academic, it seems has had something to say about the Middle Kingdom. And more often than not, they're like blind men and an elephant. On one side, some will look at rising protests and corruption and conclude the Chinese government is unstable. Others will look at the rising military spending and conclude the Chinese government is hell-bent on pushing its boundaries with waves of cruise missiles, stealth jets, and submarines. On the other side, people will crow about the unlimited potential of the Chinese economy, and the government's insane ability to get big things done as proof positive that China will ascend toward to national greatness... or as proof that China will one day eclipse the United States and subject Americans to some unspeakable tribulations (like forcing the US to repay the debt by running a trade surplus with China. The horror!) And they're all right, and yet all wrong. There is one way to take off the blindfold when figuring out the elephant in the room, however. And that's with an American idiom first coined by Deep Throat--"follow the money." In Communist China, follow the smiling Mao on the hundred-Yuan note, and everything else can be divined. Let's start with some history though, since it's cool shit.
In 1978, a group of eighteen Anhui farmers, led by the only one amongst them who could read, agreed to break the law by signing a secret agreement to divid the land, the local People's Commune, into family plots. Each family would turn over a portion of the produce to the government, while keeping the surplus from that plot for themselves. They also agreed that should one of them be caught and sentenced to death, the other villagers would raise their children until they were 18 years old. That year, their village produced a harvest larger than the the past five years combined. Per capita annual income in the village went from 22 yuan to 400 yuan. Before long, the central government found out. The villagers were fortunate that they had this man in charge and not Mao Zedong: The true macro Terran. Flash has nothing on this guy.Deng Xiaoping decided shortly before those farmers began their experiment that being socialist did not mean being equally poor, and decided to change China by embracing capitalist reform. But before he could embark on this grand plan, he had to accomplish three things beforehand: 1) Deal with residual hard-line elements within China. 2) Gain an export market that could provide technology and a source of aggregate demand that would constantly tug Chinese companies upward to a more competitive level. 3) Scare China's neighbors so much that they wouldn't cause any trouble while China did its massive reform policy. How to do this? With the Uriah gambit, of course. In the morning David wrote a letter to Joab and sent it with Uriah. In it he wrote, "Put Uriah out in front where the fighting is fiercest. Then withdraw from him so he will be struck down and die."--2 Samuel 11:14-15And so, a mere 3 months after the farmers in Anhui decided to go capitalist, Deng executed his plan.
On the morning of February 17, 1979, the mists of northern Vietnam were once again broken apart by airstrikes, artillery, and the sounds of men in battle. Eighteen fully equipped PLA infantry and armored divisions invaded northern Vietnam--nearly 200,000 men and hundreds of aircraft and tanks. A curious thing happened a few days before the assaults. Normally, PLA ground offensives are conducted with little advance warning, but here, American KH-9 Big Bird satellites saw the troop buildup prior to the invasion, and in his January state visit, Deng was quizzed about the buildups. He confirmed them, in public.Why? Because Deng wanted the war to be messy. Let's back up for a second. Deng knows that he's sitting on a demographic surplus: China has just enacted the one-child policy; it is going to enter a huge boom period where there are a whole bunch of working adults with relatively fewer children to look after and even fewer elderly. China needs to tap into this resource and prosper, much like if it was an oil kingdom that discovered an oil field which would go away after 50 years. Deng knows that the only country that can absorb the surplus output while improving his economy is the United States. The US has all the social institutions in place to give away its aggregate demand to the rest of the world by absorbing exports; it has them in place because it used those institutions to keep Western Europe and Japan under its control. Deng now wants to plug China into those institutions, but he's gotta demonstrate good faith to the Americans. On the home front, Deng has a whole bunch of cranky generals and party leaders who hate this idea and love autarky/engaging the rest of the world with guns and revolution. Internationally, the Soviets look down on China, the Indians sneer at China, Japan sneers at China, and even piddly little Vietnam and Thailand brag that they could kick China's ass. By invading Vietnam and making the war a complete mess for both sides, he gains brownie points from the US for slaughtering the guys that humiliated the Americans, while also putting the PLA in its place by showing them that their retardation regarding warfare also means those hardliners should not be given influence over domestic policy. Also, since Chinese troops were not bound the rules of engagement that US troops operated under (e.g. don't kill civilians and don't blow everything up) they could accomplish part three of their mission quite well, scaring the shit out of everyone around them. (It also helped that Deng mobilized 1.5 million more troops, daring any other country around China to intervene.) And so 60,000 Vietnamese and Chinese troops had to die, all in the span of less than a month; by far the bloodiest war in terms of deaths/day in post-WW2 history. In addition, the Chinese flattened the city of Lang Son with fuel air explosives and incendiary artillery while their own troops and Vietnamese troops were still fighting for it, killing 10-15,000 Viet civilians too, and bombed/dismantled every railway/road bridge and industrial facility between Hanoi and the Chinese border. It was worth it. The consensus forged here--economic growth sparked by export zones; a Western target market; the CCP in charge, with reform-minded but politically autocratic leaders--was so strong that it could withstand the dual challenge posed 10 years later by a bunch of kids who refused to eat. And no country dared take advantage of China's policy shift over the next thirty years, not even when those starving kids got run over by tanks and China's international influence was at its nadir.
The hunger games of Beijing happened in May and June of 1989. China had finished a long period of development, but bad shit--inflation, corruption, and a population that wanted the truth rather than money--was starting to get in the way. Deng decided to do his Vietnam strategy and discredit the hardliners while scaring his domestic and foreign opponents by washing their hands in blood and blaming everybody except himself for the carnage. When the dust cleared, Deng traveled south, in 1992, and restarted economic reform; this time, he decided to fold the hard-liners into the process by giving them all cuts of lucrative state owned enterprises, which ironically placed the new arbiters of power, the Chinese financial mandarins in the National Development and Reform Commission, and the Ministries of Commerce and Finance, in a position of influence over their old masters, since these mandarins, led by reformist premier Zhu Rongji, now could determine which enterprises lived, and which died. The WTO ascension in 2001 threw this whole game into fast forward. Had Deng still been alive, he probably would have done a fist-pump, because with Hong Kong, and Macau integrated, and China in the WTO, China had finally emerged from the long shadow of the 1840s Opium War--and China had done it with his strategies, his ideas. And for a time after that, all was good. The Dengist consensus stood. China would stay politically stable, and get rich via investment-driven and export-driven growth. Simple. But now cracks began appearing in the facade.
Here is where we talk about money. How does China make money and make its GDP? In the beginning, development was capital intensive and capital went into productivity gains. Things like better technology, for example, or highway and rail links from manufacturing greenfields to ports. Gradually, though, China has been hitting a point of diminishing returns with this model. But the growth model still uses up capital like a Chinese girlfriend uses up toilet paper (date one and you'll know). Even though logically the system should be dispensing less capital, it still dispenses moar and moar. Why? Because this is the root of the Dengist model. Deng wanted fast development. The only way to do this, his advisors told him, was to socialize the cost of capital, while privatizing the benefits of using it successfully. And it's true. That's the insight they never tell you in Econ. So much of economic growth hinges on intangible input variables which boil down to a simple thing: "animal spirits". And then they tell you that human beings are risk-averse. Put two and two together, and what happens? Well when the world is full of cowards, the only way to get people pumped up enough to take a risk is to take risk out of the equation, by letting people make money with other people's money (to paraphrase two of my personal heroes, Aristotle Onassis and Adnan Khashoggi.) When this works, you get an Asian Tiger or West Germany. When it doesn't, you get Nigeria. But China is neither. Why? Because Deng took this one step further. In most of these "other people's money" systems, it's the merchant class that leads the way. With Deng, he made sure that the flagbearers would be merchant-bureaucracy hybrids, because this is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics we're talking here, and how long could the Revolutionary Proletarian Vanguard (tm) survive if China's best and brightest did not see it as a route to serving the people getting filthy rich and banging Zhang Ziyi in the back of your chauffered, government-issue Audi right outside the gates of a preschool? (Someone actually did that. Chauffeurs have zero practice holding their liquor, so they will spill all their secrets when they're drunk) And what of the rewards for success? In those other systems, when you succeed in building up your chaebol/zaibatsu/GmBH, you became *oppa gangnam style*. But in China, you can't do that directly, and sometimes the rewards are different. Quick case example: Let's say you're doing a pretty decent job in a central government institution in Beijing. You get promoted to a vice section chief in one of the ministries. So the Party Organization Bureau decides to give you a challenge--they parachute you into a party secretary seat in a midsized Chinese rust belt city. You're young enough to be eligible for promotion to province party head. But you're not alone. Two other guys are also parachuted into other cities in the province. And the Party Organization Bureau has been careful to pick only certain guys--let's say that other dude stole your sweetheart while both of you studied at Tsinghua--that you hate, and that hate you. Well now you and him are locked in a competition to build up your cities. Imagine this as a game of Simcity on crack, and just like in Simcity, everything takes money. So you go hat in hand to the banks. Now begins the courtship. The banks are themselves beholden to patrons higher up, so you go and align yourself with a patron. The patron (lets say he's a politburo guy who knows your dad... or if you're lucky, who is your dad) sets up a meeting. You make the pitch. Here's how a pitch to a Chinese bank happens. You go in, you make a presentation. Afterwards, all the poor interns and analysts, as well as your mayoral aides, get shoved off to one conference room with some cheap take-out where they hammer out the specifics of the deal and argue over numbers... or just talk about the Premier League and pretend to work. Meanwhile, you and the big boys from the bank drink and toast to each other, and drunkenly bellow phrases like "能做成这件事情,真亏XXXX...XXXX万岁!" (this deal owes so much to XXXX, ten thousand years to XXXX!) where XXXX is the name of your mutual patron and ten-thousand years, the honorific normally reserved for Emperors. or the time-honored "喝! 喝! 每杯,一百万!" (Drink! Drink! Every shot, one million!), referring to the extra loan amounts you can get by hastening the onset of liver cancer. As you can probably guess, the pitch matters little. The whole meeting doesn't really matter. Ultimately your patron settles things, and you get the loan. Now you have the money. Well, not only that--the system knows you have the money, so it's going to expect you to boost GDP with it. If you don't, your patron will yell at you. So you put it in the things that naturally show up on the GDP charts the fastest--investment in real estate or industry. And voila. You win. You get your promotion. You can even skim a bit off the top and no one will notice--hey, it's expected, it's your reward for taking risks with other people's money. And what's more, if you advertise your city the most, build the most shiny (vacant) malls and beautiful (empty) apartment blocks and sprawling (idle) factory complexes, then you get promoted over your hated rival--and now, in addition to being *oppa gangnam style*, you can in watch your rival beg for mercy as you sentence him to 10 years of hard labor for embezzling money with the same methods you used... and you can look into the eyes of the woman who rejected you 20 years ago in college and say "看来你当初选错了...可惜现在后悔也来不及了" "guess you chose wrong back in the day. well TOO LATE BITCH" (Someone actually did this, too.) See what I mean about Simcity on crack? And once the promotion happens, it repeats; you're now playing Civilization 5 on crack with the province you just inherited. Now, for a while, this method actually generated a lot of real improvement, because China was so underdeveloped that you could throw real estate, infrastructure, or industry anywhere and it would help out--and China had that "demographic dividend" from the one-child policy restricting its giant working age population from having kids to supercharge the "build it and they will come" approach. But now there's enough of it. China needs to change its growth model. But change ain't easy; while some rare people lead by example, everyone follows by example, and the people at the top, nowadays, got there by walking this route (Xi Jinping in Fuzhou, Li Keqiang in Henan and Liaoning). But these new leaders aren't dumb. They know that the jig is up. China's almost out of cash, and that fact becomes more and more apparent each day in spite of all the made-up statistics. How to tell all the underlings below them though, without leaving the blood on their hands? Who do they find to make an example of? Enter Bo Xilai. This is where we go back to history again.
In March, Bo Xilai, hotshot and rising star of Chinese politics, was sacked from his position as the Party Chief of Chongqing, a megacity of over 100 million people and the land area of Austria. (China places its four megacities--Shanghai, Beijing, Tianjin, and Chongqing--on a political level equal to provinces.) On the surface, Secretary Bo was sacked because of a scandal. The quick details: his wife was involved with some British dude named Neil Heywood (whether sexually or just financially, no one knows.) Neil helped Mrs. Bo shift cash out of the country for safekeeping, and also helped Bo Junior get admitted into Harrow and later Oxford. Well, they had a falling out over the size of the fees Neil got for doing this, so Neil was murdered. Then the police chief of Chongqing, Wang Lijun, supposedly Bo's right-hand man ever since his days as a mere mayor of Dalian, was told to cover things up, but instead told Bo that he was uncomfortable doing this. Bo vaccilated a few days between tossing his wife under the bus or covering it up, and instead decided to do a full on cover-up, which included placing his right hand man in a soft form of house arrest. Wang Lijun says "fuck this shit", and decides to escape to the US Consulate, where he eventually walks out a day later into the hands of the Chinese central government to testify against his former provincial boss. Mrs. Bo is convicted, as is some random flunkey from the Bo circle, and everyone goes home. Peel back a layer, and you might see a different story. 2012/2013 is when China changes its highest leadership. Bo's predecessor in the Chongqing party seat was Wang Yang, now the head of Guangdong Province, the richest province in China (right next door to Hong Kong) and himself a rising star for the highest levels of Chinese government. Wang's predecessor was He Guoqiang, who now sits in that highest level of leadership, running that very same Party Organization Bureau that maintains promotion files for high-level Chinese officials, CEOs of Chinese megacorps, and the high command of the PLA. When Bo took office, he decides to embark on a "Strike Black" campaign to boost his popularity for the 2012/2013 intra-party elections. From 2007 to 2011, Bo arrests and executes many former officials who served Messrs. Wang and He loyally, including the former police chief in Chongqing (who got replaced by Wang Lijun.) In doing so, he likely accumulated a dossier of dirt on those two other heavyweights, and probably pissed them off, or worse yet, scared them. In Chinese politics, nothing is worse than scaring someone who has more power than you, and that was why Bo had to go. Peel back a third layer, though, and we get a different story. This one touches on ancient Chinese history. (Well, relatively ancient.) When Wen Jiabao (China's current No.2 leader) was gently questioned about Chongqing shortly after the scandal broke, his answer was pretty goddamn extreme. He not only foreshadowed Bo's political execution, but defined Bo as the man who wanted to turn back the clock on China's decades-long effort to modernize. To paraphrase John Garnaut, Show nested quote +Wen framed the struggle over Bo's legacy as a choice between urgent political reforms and "such historical tragedies as the Cultural Revolution," culminating a 30-year battle for two radically different versions of China, of which Bo Xilai and Wen Jiabao are the ideological heirs. In Wen's world, bringing down Bo is the first step in a battle between China's Maoist past and a more democratic future as personified by his beloved mentor, 1980s Communist Party chief Hu Yaobang. Hu Yaobang (the white coat and tie), early 1980s. The two guys to his right? Hu Jintao and Wen Jiabao, the current No. 1 and No. 2 leaders of China. (And yes, those two were best friends back then... and still are.)In this story, then, the reason Bo is getting punished is because of what Bo did in the Cultural Revolution, as well as what he did to boost civic spirit in Chongqing; order citizens to re-embrace the Cultural Revolution. The Cultural Revolution was a shitty time for China. The whole country engaged in open warfare on any sort of class hiearchy, which meant the country, led by a bunch of teenagers (really, just teenagers) engaged in open warfare against all government officials and men of learning except those that aligned closest with Mao. Bo Xilai's own father, Bo Yibo, was swept up in this too--he was cast out, disgraced. Bo's mother committed suicide (or was murdered, no one really knows.) And what did Bo do? He engaged in struggle sessions against his own parents to avoid getting politically hurt. Basically he would go up to his own dad, and in public, yell at him and humiliate him and hit him. In any culture, this would be regarded as spineless behavior; in Chinese culture, with its emphasis on the family, this was regarded as the lowest of the low. And guess what? People remembered this shit, remembered Bo Xilai as that little kid who couldn't stand up straight for his own dad, remembered Bo as the kid who would say anything to get ahead, remembered Bo as the spineless one who, in the words of Wen Jiabao and Hu Yaobang, was "less than human" (不是人). These criticisms stick, because most of China's current leadership came of age in the Cultural Revolution, and they all got promoted by their predecessors, who (including Hu Yaobang, and Deng Xiaoping himself) were often the ones getting humiliated by those teenaged Red Guards. In this regard, then, Wen is the primary repudiator of Bo, and he does it because Bo is bringing back terrible memories and threatening to lead China down that road again. But not even this is the deepest layer. At the core of the onion lies the old idiom: "follow the money."
When Bo became Chongqing's party chief in 2007, Chongqing had about 25 billion dollars in debt. When he left, in 2011, he added on 50 billion more in debt, as well as another 70-80 billion more outside official balance sheets. Bo took the whole "splurge and get promoted" mentality and took it to an extreme level. He spent a billion dollars planting trees, for example--trees that experts say will die in 10 years from the shitty air quality, but that look good right now. And he used more billions to puff up Chongqing's state owned companies, at the expense of private interests. So he had to go. Why? Privatization plans, baby. The top leaders know there's a giant debt bubble coming--they know that they're stuck in the same debt trap the Japanese were in the late 80s--and they're going to solve it with a wave of privatizations. The idea is--offload all the crap to foreigners and Chinese private citizens who don't know better, recapitalize the system, and also permanently change the "reward metric" while they're at it to something more closely aligned with popularity, like elections. It's a good idea. It's what many top Chinese leaders have spent years prepping themselves for--just look at Wen Jiabao's own son, who has set up a private equity fund, New Horizon, itching to take stakes in newly formed ex-State-Owned Enterprises, or Zhu Rongji's son's investment bank, CICC, and their 资本运作 (capital operations) plans for the 100 biggest Chinese public companies (drafted with the expertise of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan). The idea? Toss the baby out with the bathwater, but make sure that the baby lands with the connected and loyal Party functionaries. This way, China still remains owned by the same people, even if politicians are now elected. It's grand. I tip my hat in respect, good sirs. How will they sell it? By giving the Chinese people more freedom--by finally giving in to those demands of the Tiananmen protestors, to the legacy of Hu Yaobang. Such sweet irony. To those who died in 1989, I thank you--your slogans are about to make some people very, very rich. (Remember those informal stakes in SOEs I mentioned earlier? Well, now they're all about to become legal.) But Bo's methods are a throwback, an anachorism, an ugly wart--Bo wants the resources to remain in State hands. And so Bo has to go, because he did the only thing that's worse than making someone more powerful scared of him: he stepped between power and money, and in China (or anywhere, for that matter), if you do that, you die. So there you have it. The true shape. And the best part about it? After all is said and done, the West will welcome China to the table as a modern economy, a prosperous democracy, as a nation just like them, yet another Elephant. Sorry to say but : TL;DR, can you provide a short version of your findings/conclusions, to the point (the ones that driven you writing that lengthy post ?) By all means, I'm willing to read your whole dissertation if you give me a good reason for ("another Elephant" doesn't seems to be appealing  ).
It takes less than 5 minutes to read, why should you read some one-liners when OP gives you insights?
Interesting read, I don't really have any info of a sort so I'll wait for other people's opinions. Interesting to notice that people who control banks and economy control the world since centuries, power resides with money and not with exposed, political leaders who seem more the engine of changes rather than the controlling overlords.. I suspect that presidents like Lincoln and Kennedy died because they dared to cross swords with banks and the guys who hold the cash.
|
Wow. Thank you for that this blog was amazing.
|
Great read. Thank you for writing something intelligent about China, don't see that often.
|
This was an amazing read and it gave me a bit of insight in the Chinese economy. Wow. Props to you!
|
Great insights, good read. I had quite a few talks with sinophiles before, I can somewhat understand the fascination and the distinctiveness of the culture.
|
Very interesting read and well written :D
|
|
Lol at one of the comments
This must be the worst overview of China's economic history I've ever read. Constant crazy conspiracy theories combined with a bizarre misreading of history.
You know I'm always a fan, SS.
Edit: How did you even find that post?
|
On September 06 2012 00:03 Azera wrote:Lol at one of the comments Show nested quote + This must be the worst overview of China's economic history I've ever read. Constant crazy conspiracy theories combined with a bizarre misreading of history.
You know I'm always a fan, SS. Edit: How did you even find that on such an obscure subreddit? o_O I browse the China subreddit at least once a day
|
|
Just seems like you're yanking your own chain is all...
|
On September 06 2012 00:14 Azera wrote: Just seems like you're yanking your own chain is all...
Nah, not this time. Too old for that now...
|
Where does all this actually come from? it seems you just took some points in history and made up your own stories around them.
|
great insights and an interesting read. coming from consultancy, i applaud your structure, grammar and story. better than 99% of the stuff i read here. thanks
|
|
One of the images 404'd I think
|
And how exactly does all this affect america?
|
Unfortunately this stuff just flies over my head 
edit : haters on reddit. Whats your response?
|
That last part is just your speculation right? Because I can see no way that the Party will relinquish their control and establish a Western-style democracy. (Or even a Sacha Baron Cohen style democracy). Even at the grassroots level (villages etc) which the Party is very keen on propagandising on the 7 o'clock news, a candidate can only get "elected" with approval of superior authorities and dissenting and popular alternatives are disappeared. Also it's in the Chinese Constitution that the Communist Party is the sole ruling party. Barring a revolution or a revolutionary leader (which looks unlikely with the current cronies), that part is not going to be changed anytime soon.
Meanwhile, inflation+monopolistic banks+monopolistic SOEs+high taxes+corruption+no good investment outlet continue to put average Chinese people's money into Communist pockets, and the ever-obedient populace can but look on in despair at yet another Error 101 while searching on the internet about the latest collapsing bridge.
Sucks to live in China. /Rant over
|
Wow this was an epic post, i'm glad i read it. Very insightful.
|
This isn't exactly the mainstream view of chinese politics, at least from what I've read. It's a reasonable and interesting pseudo revisionist look though.
|
Well, it's hard for me to judge your work, especially as you do not show any proof or at least sources about what you talking about. Plus I'm not competent nor expert about China. As nttea said :
On September 06 2012 00:18 nttea wrote: Where does all this actually come from? it seems you just took some points in history and made up your own stories around them.
Besides that limitation, I'm willing to say that there's nothing new under the Sun. Someone might write a very similar account (mutatis mutandis) of the birth of most of our own democracy, or, as Castoriadis loved to called them, our own liberal oligarchy...
|
Baa?21242 Posts
Thr history was good but I feel like you go a tad overboard on the speculation. Also you don't clearly distinguish between fact and speculation, which obfuscates it for people who don't delve into the finer points of recent Chinese history :d it's poor practice to pass off your own opinion alongside historical fact as if there's no difference ~.~
That said it was very well written and an interesting read. Certainly a compelling narrative.
|
Wow this was a great read.
|
This was amazing, and a good educational blog. My eyes are opened to this. I was always very curious about China's state of politics and economy. I've watched numerous documentaries about the exploding (i say exploding and not booming because it's literally like an explosion the rate things are going) real estate market is there, and it mirrors what happened here in the states when real estate boom was getting ridiculous. My fiancee went back to china recently and said it felt so non-communist compared to before that she hardly recognized it, and was surprised when I told her they are still technically 'communist'.
It'll be interesting to see how this pans out and what comes of it. While shady and scary, and elephants abound, China may become the US's greatest ally in levying both of our huge debts that are looming, and actually help the US get out of it's current economic crisis. I don't understand it well enough to elaborate, but China's growth and eventual short decline, will be something I feel the US will greatly expose and use to it's own benefit.
|
amazing read. could you do one for japan? i've never fully understood why their economy got completely owned in the late 80's.
|
Very, very well done. I have lived in and have been studying many aspects of China for the past several years (Mandarin, Chinese culture, Chinese politics, China's economy) and you just really nailed it. Really, really puts things in perspective for me.
|
Great write up. You have an awesome righting style.
|
I always like reading about Chinese politics. Corrupt and closed off as all hell, but some good old fashion king-making that just gives politics that extra edge.
Not as things should be, but that doesn't keep it from being interesting to read.
|
Wow! That was a great read. Thanks :D! I feel like I understand the china a tonne more now.
|
I very much enjoyed reading the OP, as it was well written, persuasive, and chock full of information. My only critique would be one of textual transparancy; many will read this and believe that complex issues in regards to understanding Chinese political motivations and economic development are simple, when, by your own admission I'm sure, nothing could be less true. Perhaps more definite rhetorical signposting when it comes to conjecture or a disclaimer at the very beginning could clear up issues of authorial intent, as the difference between history and an analysis of history can be tremendous. In any case, keep writing
|
Very interesting read, nothing beats coming home from work, getting down on my PC with a freshly opened beer, and read an enjoyable blog text like this!
|
That was an absolutely brilliant read, thank you. And for the sake of the rest of the world as well as for China I hope your prediction at the end comes true...
Also you have amazing taste in music.
|
This skips a lot of really important stuff on modern Chinese economy. This would be akin to explaining America to someone who knows nothing about America by talking about George W Bush and then Obama.
Specifically:
Yu've managed to skip everything about 1980s style reforms in China, the Zhejiang model and the rise of the genuine capitalist class except for that, now fabled, farmers-blood contract. Why no mention of China's first millionaire and his venture, Idiot's Seeds?
Youve ignored Zhu Ronji reforms in response to the near collapse of the state banking sector and did not mention the big four State owned 'Asset Management Companies' and their balance sheets and interactions with the Big 4 state owned banks. You've barely touched on local property prices and their importance to local governments' budgets and literally have one line mentioned the off balance sheet vehicles local governments have set up to hide the debts [by the way, who are they hiding that debt from?] You've not mentioned the rise of the shadow banking sector in China, nor the rise of the "Investment Managers" that promise 40% returns annually and the concern that this elicits from the PBOC You havent even touched the currency peg to the dollar and the consequent straight jacket this puts on Chinese monetary policy. You've also somehow managed to skip the whole privatization scheme for the Big Four banks. You seem to have understood only half of the reason why Bo Xilai's 'Congqing model' was so popular with so many in the Party and among the general populace. (it was not just about planting trees and building up Chonqing's local SOEs!) You've confused the already completed quasi-IPOs of stuff like China Telecom and China mobile [in terms of JP Morgan and Goldman inputs] and the future plans for any attempts at privatization. You've seemed to have completely ignored the inability of either Wen or Hu to get China moving away from its current economic model, consumption as a % of the economy is at an all time low of 38%. This is a historic record.
You have completely ignored the importance of Chinese overseas diaspora in terms of factor relocation, especially Hong Kong's role in it. You also seemed to have attributed China's strategic decisions, invading Vietnam because Vietnam just invaded China's puppet state Cambodia, with some sort grand bargain with the Americans. The Americans and the Chinese have already become quasi-allies in the 70s due to the antipathy to the Soviet Union. The big breakthrough here occurred under Nixon and Mao and once the Vietnam war was finally wound down nothing stood in the way of the blooming friendship (A couple weeks after the PLA massacred its own people in Tienanmen, George Bush the first sent his NSA and his Secretary of State to toast the Chinese, in Beijing, and to assure them that while publicly he condemned the bloodshed privately the US-PRC alliance against the Soviet Union was still on)
By the way, the projection that 'privatization' and 'quasi-democracy' are coming in 6 more years, that projection has been made in 1996, in 2000, in 2006, and now in 2012. And the total number of state owned firms has fallen. Its just that the ones that are left standing are all massive, and dominate their industries. And somehow mysteriously that final push to privatization never quite happens.
But other than that, its a nice blog post.
If people are genuinely interested in China's economy ya'll should check out these three books: http://www.amazon.com/Capitalism-Chinese-Characteristics-Entrepreneurship-State/dp/0521898102/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346876203&sr=8-1&keywords=capitalism with chinese characteristics
http://www.amazon.com/Red-Capitalism-Financial-Foundation-Extraordinary/dp/0470825863/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1346876203&sr=8-2&keywords=capitalism with chinese characteristics
http://www.amazon.com/Factions-Finance-China-Conflict-Inflation/dp/B005E014EM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1346876239&sr=8-2&keywords=factions and finance china
|
This was a really good read, not just because of the information/ideas layed out, but how it was shaped. Very intriguing and actually made me google quite a bit after finishing it up. Now that I think of it -- time to look up books!
|
So the only quotation,citation and cross-reference is Bible?...how fitting
and could you tell me,how exactly is PRC going to get from 9,6%(USA 1,7%) year gdp growth into " pretty hard economic landing"?
|
Amazing post. One complaint: not enough music (or I'm a slow reader )
|
Zurich15323 Posts
I am reading the first one currently. It's not the easiest read, but the best source on the Chinese economy I have found so for. Fantastic book on China.
|
On September 06 2012 08:11 zatic wrote:I am reading the first one currently. It's not the easiest read, but the best source on the Chinese economy I have found so for. Fantastic book on China. Read some segments of the first as well. Useful.
|
My sentiments echo CSheep's, though my knowledge on China and geopolitical affairs is quite limited, I think.
Still, if anything, an interesting and fun read. You're good at this.
|
I'm interested in that Zhang Ziyi deal.
Awesome post!
|
On September 06 2012 01:37 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Thr history was good but I feel like you go a tad overboard on the speculation. Also you don't clearly distinguish between fact and speculation, which obfuscates it for people who don't delve into the finer points of recent Chinese history :d it's poor practice to pass off your own opinion alongside historical fact as if there's no difference ~.~
That said it was very well written and an interesting read. Certainly a compelling narrative.
Well it's an opinion piece from someone, afaik, isn't an expert so you've to take it with a bit of salt especially when the reformist pov is so obvious but nonetheless a great read even if it's way too dramatic for my taste (yeah I love boring straight up history :D)
|
Woah. I feel like I just read a sci-fi thriller. Well written and entertaining, to say the least.
|
This is a well-informed and in-depth analysis of China's political and economic situation.
|
OP, are you able to post a version of your thread without music/pic?
At work at the moment, bored shitless but our PCs are monitored for data usage.
|
|
On September 06 2012 08:39 phfantunes wrote: I'm interested in that Zhang Ziyi deal.
Awesome post! I think shes engaged or married already to a rich Israeli guy. So good news for you, just get rich!
|
very very entertaining
i cant tell how much of it is true, but it was an awesome read
|
Interesting take on the Sino-Viet war. Always sad to see brave/naive young men dying for their party country.
|
I wish I was as intelligent as you!
|
Easily post of the year. Well written.
|
Best non SC post I've read in a very long time. Great read.
|
On September 06 2012 10:09 haduken wrote: OP, are you able to post a version of your thread without music/pic?
At work at the moment, bored shitless but our PCs are monitored for data usage.
... that sucks like hell man. What kind of company are you working in? Or is it related to your ISPs?
On September 06 2012 02:37 stew_ wrote: amazing read. could you do one for japan? i've never fully understood why their economy got completely owned in the late 80's.
you know he's Chinese and not Japanese and they are both different things despite both being in Asia right??
... right???
|
On September 06 2012 21:28 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 10:09 haduken wrote: OP, are you able to post a version of your thread without music/pic?
At work at the moment, bored shitless but our PCs are monitored for data usage. ... that sucks like hell man. What kind of company are you working in? Or is it related to your ISPs? Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 02:37 stew_ wrote: amazing read. could you do one for japan? i've never fully understood why their economy got completely owned in the late 80's. you know he's Chinese and not Japanese and they are both different things despite both being in Asia right?? ... right??? Maybe he knows something since he made at least one comparison to it.
I do not know much about China (except in relation to North Korea), but this was a good read. Thanks for writing.
|
I enjoyed reading it and think there might be a lot of truth in especially the last paragraphs about dividing and privitization of the most valuable companies. Reminds me a lot about how it went in Russia with the fall of the Soviet Union.
There the inner circle there also bought the crown jewels for very low prizes and through them kept the population in check while becoming billionairs. This also assured that the same people could stay in power because the new billionairs would back them when the old garde ran for office and at the same time allowed the old garde to keep the billionairs inline because the old garde knows exactly by which semi-illegal way the billionairs obtained the companies.
Look for example at Chodorkovsky. The moment he backed a progressive candidate and really tried to help forward the democracy, he was prosecuted for illegally obtaining his oilcompany (Lukoil I believe it was) and was sentenced to a long stay in prison in Siberia.
|
On September 06 2012 21:33 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 21:28 JieXian wrote:On September 06 2012 10:09 haduken wrote: OP, are you able to post a version of your thread without music/pic?
At work at the moment, bored shitless but our PCs are monitored for data usage. ... that sucks like hell man. What kind of company are you working in? Or is it related to your ISPs? On September 06 2012 02:37 stew_ wrote: amazing read. could you do one for japan? i've never fully understood why their economy got completely owned in the late 80's. you know he's Chinese and not Japanese and they are both different things despite both being in Asia right?? ... right??? Maybe he knows something since he made at least one comparison to it. I do not know much about China (except in relation to North Korea), but this was a good read. Thanks for writing. Actually, I know a bit about Japan, but not enough to write something worth reading.
Read about 1980s Japanese economic history, in particular how the Japanese economy coped with the shock of the 1985 plaza accords. Then keep reading about how Japanese institutions, collectively seeking to preserve their own interests, caused Japan to overreact to one economic speedbump after another all the way through the 2011 tsunami, and how that has cost the country trillions in lost GDP. It's a sobering tale, especially for China, which seems destined to walk that road itself
|
|
On September 06 2012 05:17 Sub40APM wrote:This skips a lot of really important stuff on modern Chinese economy. This would be akin to explaining America to someone who knows nothing about America by talking about George W Bush and then Obama. Specifically: Yu've managed to skip everything about 1980s style reforms in China, the Zhejiang model and the rise of the genuine capitalist class except for that, now fabled, farmers-blood contract. Why no mention of China's first millionaire and his venture, Idiot's Seeds? Youve ignored Zhu Ronji reforms in response to the near collapse of the state banking sector and did not mention the big four State owned 'Asset Management Companies' and their balance sheets and interactions with the Big 4 state owned banks. You've barely touched on local property prices and their importance to local governments' budgets and literally have one line mentioned the off balance sheet vehicles local governments have set up to hide the debts [by the way, who are they hiding that debt from?] You've not mentioned the rise of the shadow banking sector in China, nor the rise of the "Investment Managers" that promise 40% returns annually and the concern that this elicits from the PBOC You havent even touched the currency peg to the dollar and the consequent straight jacket this puts on Chinese monetary policy. You've also somehow managed to skip the whole privatization scheme for the Big Four banks. You seem to have understood only half of the reason why Bo Xilai's 'Congqing model' was so popular with so many in the Party and among the general populace. (it was not just about planting trees and building up Chonqing's local SOEs!) You've confused the already completed quasi-IPOs of stuff like China Telecom and China mobile [in terms of JP Morgan and Goldman inputs] and the future plans for any attempts at privatization. You've seemed to have completely ignored the inability of either Wen or Hu to get China moving away from its current economic model, consumption as a % of the economy is at an all time low of 38%. This is a historic record. You have completely ignored the importance of Chinese overseas diaspora in terms of factor relocation, especially Hong Kong's role in it. You also seemed to have attributed China's strategic decisions, invading Vietnam because Vietnam just invaded China's puppet state Cambodia, with some sort grand bargain with the Americans. The Americans and the Chinese have already become quasi-allies in the 70s due to the antipathy to the Soviet Union. The big breakthrough here occurred under Nixon and Mao and once the Vietnam war was finally wound down nothing stood in the way of the blooming friendship (A couple weeks after the PLA massacred its own people in Tienanmen, George Bush the first sent his NSA and his Secretary of State to toast the Chinese, in Beijing, and to assure them that while publicly he condemned the bloodshed privately the US-PRC alliance against the Soviet Union was still on) By the way, the projection that 'privatization' and 'quasi-democracy' are coming in 6 more years, that projection has been made in 1996, in 2000, in 2006, and now in 2012. And the total number of state owned firms has fallen. Its just that the ones that are left standing are all massive, and dominate their industries. And somehow mysteriously that final push to privatization never quite happens. But other than that, its a nice blog post. If people are genuinely interested in China's economy ya'll should check out these three books: http://www.amazon.com/Capitalism-Chinese-Characteristics-Entrepreneurship-State/dp/0521898102/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346876203&sr=8-1&keywords=capitalism with chinese characteristicshttp://www.amazon.com/Red-Capitalism-Financial-Foundation-Extraordinary/dp/0470825863/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1346876203&sr=8-2&keywords=capitalism with chinese characteristicshttp://www.amazon.com/Factions-Finance-China-Conflict-Inflation/dp/B005E014EM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1346876239&sr=8-2&keywords=factions and finance china Very good comment. In regard to the last book you linked (Factions & Finance), I'd like to point out that a lot of my own interest in China was sparked when I first met Victor Shih my freshman year of college. He (and Kenneth Dam) were tremendous influences on my decision to go into econ/int'l politics for study and a career.
|
Wowowowow. I am so impressed that someone wrote a roughly good picture of the Chinese economy. So impressed because it's so rare these days that I had to re-sign into TL after swearing off it.
There's one thing I want to mention which is regarding 1989 in Tiananmen:
I'm a bit dissappointed that you didn't mention how when the leadership saw student protestors, they did not see democracy lovers, rather they saw the Red Guard version 2 and most of the leadership during that time were the ones being beaten the crap out of by the original red guard which was also made up of students. That I feel like is something that people need to understand to truly get China's economic and political thought. You did a good job by mentioning Bo Xilai which brought a similar understanding.
Other than that, impressive. I have a lot of things to say about Sub40APM's post as well, both good and bad, but I really need to work on a paper. LOLs.
|
Best read I have had in weeks and possibly months!
|
that was an excellent read, thank you good sir!
|
On September 06 2012 23:29 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 05:17 Sub40APM wrote:This skips a lot of really important stuff on modern Chinese economy. This would be akin to explaining America to someone who knows nothing about America by talking about George W Bush and then Obama. Specifically: Yu've managed to skip everything about 1980s style reforms in China, the Zhejiang model and the rise of the genuine capitalist class except for that, now fabled, farmers-blood contract. Why no mention of China's first millionaire and his venture, Idiot's Seeds? Youve ignored Zhu Ronji reforms in response to the near collapse of the state banking sector and did not mention the big four State owned 'Asset Management Companies' and their balance sheets and interactions with the Big 4 state owned banks. You've barely touched on local property prices and their importance to local governments' budgets and literally have one line mentioned the off balance sheet vehicles local governments have set up to hide the debts [by the way, who are they hiding that debt from?] You've not mentioned the rise of the shadow banking sector in China, nor the rise of the "Investment Managers" that promise 40% returns annually and the concern that this elicits from the PBOC You havent even touched the currency peg to the dollar and the consequent straight jacket this puts on Chinese monetary policy. You've also somehow managed to skip the whole privatization scheme for the Big Four banks. You seem to have understood only half of the reason why Bo Xilai's 'Congqing model' was so popular with so many in the Party and among the general populace. (it was not just about planting trees and building up Chonqing's local SOEs!) You've confused the already completed quasi-IPOs of stuff like China Telecom and China mobile [in terms of JP Morgan and Goldman inputs] and the future plans for any attempts at privatization. You've seemed to have completely ignored the inability of either Wen or Hu to get China moving away from its current economic model, consumption as a % of the economy is at an all time low of 38%. This is a historic record. You have completely ignored the importance of Chinese overseas diaspora in terms of factor relocation, especially Hong Kong's role in it. You also seemed to have attributed China's strategic decisions, invading Vietnam because Vietnam just invaded China's puppet state Cambodia, with some sort grand bargain with the Americans. The Americans and the Chinese have already become quasi-allies in the 70s due to the antipathy to the Soviet Union. The big breakthrough here occurred under Nixon and Mao and once the Vietnam war was finally wound down nothing stood in the way of the blooming friendship (A couple weeks after the PLA massacred its own people in Tienanmen, George Bush the first sent his NSA and his Secretary of State to toast the Chinese, in Beijing, and to assure them that while publicly he condemned the bloodshed privately the US-PRC alliance against the Soviet Union was still on) By the way, the projection that 'privatization' and 'quasi-democracy' are coming in 6 more years, that projection has been made in 1996, in 2000, in 2006, and now in 2012. And the total number of state owned firms has fallen. Its just that the ones that are left standing are all massive, and dominate their industries. And somehow mysteriously that final push to privatization never quite happens. But other than that, its a nice blog post. If people are genuinely interested in China's economy ya'll should check out these three books: http://www.amazon.com/Capitalism-Chinese-Characteristics-Entrepreneurship-State/dp/0521898102/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346876203&sr=8-1&keywords=capitalism with chinese characteristicshttp://www.amazon.com/Red-Capitalism-Financial-Foundation-Extraordinary/dp/0470825863/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1346876203&sr=8-2&keywords=capitalism with chinese characteristicshttp://www.amazon.com/Factions-Finance-China-Conflict-Inflation/dp/B005E014EM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1346876239&sr=8-2&keywords=factions and finance china Very good comment. In regard to the last book you linked (Factions & Finance), I'd like to point out that a lot of my own interest in China was sparked when I first met Victor Shih my freshman year of college. He (and Kenneth Dam) were tremendous influences on my decision to go into econ/int'l politics for study and a career. Thats pretty cool. Yea, I was pretty sad when Shih decided to cash in on his Sinology cred and joined Carlyle. What a waste.
|
What a great post. Deng was such a brilliant politician, we should be teaching about him and the rise of China much more.
"Observe developmnents soberly, deal with changes patiently and confidently; maintain our position, meet challenges calmly, hide our capabilities and bide our time, remain free of ambition and never claim leadership."
Edit - of course you can't fit the entire history of China's economy into one post. That requires wider reading. But its a good introduction.
|
On September 07 2012 02:25 wklbishop wrote:
I'm a bit dissappointed that you didn't mention how when the leadership saw student protestors, they did not see democracy lovers, rather they saw the Red Guard version 2 and most of the leadership during that time were the ones being beaten the crap out of by the original red guard which was also made up of students. That I feel like is something that people need to understand to truly get China's economic and political thought. . eh? Li Peng was the main driver for a bloody crackdown and no one touched him during the Cultural Revolution. The other guy who was strongly in favor of martial law was Yao Yilin and he also had a relatively harmless Cultural Revolution. Li Peng's patron, Chen Yun, was 'purged' but not violently, he was demoted from official posts and made a factory manager but by the time the Gang of Four were removed he was in a prominent enough position to petition to have Deng's disgrace and exile overturned.
Zhao Ziyang, on the other hand, was purged during the cultural revolution yet he was also the guy out there negotiating with the students. Qiao Shi went to jail during the Cultural Revolution and probably suffered the most physical abuse yet instead of voting for the killing of the students he abstained, which was a big deal. Hu Qili also opposed martial law and was expelled from the standing committee for it.
So I guess I disagree with the way you formulated that. I dont think most members of the standing committee thought the kids out in 89 were like the Red Guards at all. And the ones who suffered the most at the hands of the Red Guards were also the ones who were the most reluctant to actually use force. Considering the fact that Cun Yun wanted to slow down the Deng economic reforms, it seems like a better argument was that the conservative members of the standing committee used the student movement to derail the Deng project.
|
This looks eerily familiar. If you take out the war with Vietnam, and Bo's shenanigans, it's basically what my country went through and is still going through.
|
On September 07 2012 04:08 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 02:25 wklbishop wrote:
I'm a bit dissappointed that you didn't mention how when the leadership saw student protestors, they did not see democracy lovers, rather they saw the Red Guard version 2 and most of the leadership during that time were the ones being beaten the crap out of by the original red guard which was also made up of students. That I feel like is something that people need to understand to truly get China's economic and political thought. . eh? Li Peng was the main driver for a bloody crackdown and no one touched him during the Cultural Revolution. The other guy who was strongly in favor of martial law was Yao Yilin and he also had a relatively harmless Cultural Revolution. Li Peng's patron, Chen Yun, was 'purged' but not violently, he was demoted from official posts and made a factory manager but by the time the Gang of Four were removed he was in a prominent enough position to petition to have Deng's disgrace and exile overturned. Zhao Ziyang, on the other hand, was purged during the cultural revolution yet he was also the guy out there negotiating with the students. Qiao Shi went to jail during the Cultural Revolution and probably suffered the most physical abuse yet instead of voting for the killing of the students he abstained, which was a big deal. Hu Qili also opposed martial law and was expelled from the standing committee for it. So I guess I disagree with the way you formulated that. I dont think most members of the standing committee thought the kids out in 89 were like the Red Guards at all. And the ones who suffered the most at the hands of the Red Guards were also the ones who were the most reluctant to actually use force. Considering the fact that Cun Yun wanted to slow down the Deng economic reforms, it seems like a better argument was that the conservative members of the standing committee used the student movement to derail the Deng project.
You're very intelligent obviously and know your stuff, but I think you're missing something really important here and about Chinese culture which is positions don't necessarily matter at the time but rather personal loyalty and reputation which meant realistically Deng Xiaoping (and his camp, people in power not necessarily in the Politburo) was behind the crackdown and had the final say. Hell, Deng after Mao's death had no power other than being essentially the spiritual successor to Zhou Enlai and all his connections.
Also, you're saying only those who experienced misery will fear the red guard, that's not true necessarily because even if they didn't get tortured, they were still scared shitless because they knew how it could potentially turn out for them. Zhao Ziyang was essentially playing with fire to them and he knew it.
And at the end of the day, the similarity was basically quite a few of them saying: we're not letting students and kids run this country ever again. Though the alternative argument is something I would agree with. It's just that I think it goes hand in hand with what I described.
That said, I'm willing to acknowledge I'm wrong, but I just wished it was noted that a lot of political thought was based on the horrors of the cultural revolution and I thought Tiananmen was the best example to illustrate so. Why a lot of Chinese leaders are so... focused on just getting wealthier over any great ideals since the cultural revolution was based on weird ideals.
|
Ah I see what you are saying and thats fair enough but I guess my point was generally that the Cun Yun - Li Peng leadership axis was different -- and in many ways opposed -- to Deng's reformist tendencies. Obviously if Deng ultimately wanted to prevent the massacre he could have but I think we have to be careful about ascribing to him too much power. After all, if his will could triumph over standing committee members then why 3 year freeze on economic liberalization, and why did he have to do the southern tour? I think its not unreasonable to say that people like Li Peng were concerned about their own positions and by striking down the students ensured their continued domination of the nation.
But if you are saying that everyone in the Chinese power structure was scared of the second cultural revolution because the first, fundamentally, undermined the bureaucratic state in favor of Maoist charisma based leadership (which I think was Maos goal anyway, to keep the cadres scared) then sure I agree, the people who climbed the ladder of success through numerous complex steps wouldnt want the system shaken up by random reformers.
|
On September 07 2012 05:29 Sub40APM wrote: Ah I see what you are saying and thats fair enough but I guess my point was generally that the Cun Yun - Li Peng leadership axis was different -- and in many ways opposed -- to Deng's reformist tendencies. Obviously if Deng ultimately wanted to prevent the massacre he could have but I think we have to be careful about ascribing to him too much power. After all, if his will could triumph over standing committee members then why 3 year freeze on economic liberalization, and why did he have to do the southern tour? I think its not unreasonable to say that people like Li Peng were concerned about their own positions and by striking down the students ensured their continued domination of the nation.
But if you are saying that everyone in the Chinese power structure was scared of the second cultural revolution because the first, fundamentally, undermined the bureaucratic state in favor of Maoist charisma based leadership (which I think was Maos goal anyway, to keep the cadres scared) then sure I agree, the people who climbed the ladder of success through numerous complex steps wouldnt want the system shaken up by random reformers.
In regard to your first paragraph, the ability to cease power during a crisis and standstill in government is different from the ability to control government in a day to day basis when everything is calmed down. Deng was able to suddenly grab power because of his force of personality and ballsack. When the situation isn't in such a weird crisis mode, people can slowly manuever themselves around Deng, same as they did with Mao until Mao launched the Cultural Revolution.
As for your second paragraph, yes that is what I'm saying. The Chinese government for all intents and purposes has people in power who know first hand what could happen to them if they fall out of power. They still have a lot of them around. Xi Jinping for example. Though I don't want to make the Chinese personalities in charge to be too machiavellen since I do believe they also want what's best for China (along with staying in power) which in their minds is NOT another cultural revolution as they know just how shitty it is.
Side note, the only thing I'm somewhat worried about though is when a new generation of leaders comes to power, one that never truly suffered or knew true fear like those that survived the cultural revolution did. Their confidence must be soaring which makes me wonder what they'll do in the future.
|
wanna be koreans?
more specifically south koreans.
|
An elucidating read, Shady Sands! I never expected to stumble upon a topic that is so far removed from gaming here on TL.
I feel that some people in the comments don't quite understand what this post is all about. There is no such thing as universal truth in writing. There is only interpretation -- partial-truths that help us understand the elephant. Don't rag on the OP for not including other relevant information. If it upsets you, write your own essay. Also, what does it matter if fact and opinion are mixed together? They always are. The point is that this essay makes some of us curious about the Chinese economy. If we're really interested (and I know I am after reading this), then it's up to us to do more research on the topic.
Diatribe aside, I really found the last part of the essay intriguing. If I understand Shady Sands correctly, the potential turn to democracy in China -- indeed the rest of the world -- isn't so rosy as we might imagine. Democracy in theory is most certainly the best form of government on moral and practical grounds. However, what does having democracy matter if the underlying power of society is still rooted in only a select few? How much can you really change by voting for someone who is either already bought or doesn't have any real power to effect positive change? What I think Shady Sands was saying -- what I believe anyway -- is that the "democratic" nations of the world all have their elite circles that reap all the benefits of making decisions and defer all the blame when their decisions harm the rest of us. So yes, China will be welcomed with open arms when it becomes democratic because it will look exactly like the rest of world -- for better of worse.
"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." - John Kenneth Galbraith
|
This is the more eloquent and accurate description of exactly what I have noticed. I never thought they would off load and go private though, always assumed they would default on all international investments and revert any capitalist ideals. This makes a bit more sense given history though.
Great post.
|
On September 07 2012 07:12 wklbishop wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 05:29 Sub40APM wrote: Ah I see what you are saying and thats fair enough but I guess my point was generally that the Cun Yun - Li Peng leadership axis was different -- and in many ways opposed -- to Deng's reformist tendencies. Obviously if Deng ultimately wanted to prevent the massacre he could have but I think we have to be careful about ascribing to him too much power. After all, if his will could triumph over standing committee members then why 3 year freeze on economic liberalization, and why did he have to do the southern tour? I think its not unreasonable to say that people like Li Peng were concerned about their own positions and by striking down the students ensured their continued domination of the nation.
But if you are saying that everyone in the Chinese power structure was scared of the second cultural revolution because the first, fundamentally, undermined the bureaucratic state in favor of Maoist charisma based leadership (which I think was Maos goal anyway, to keep the cadres scared) then sure I agree, the people who climbed the ladder of success through numerous complex steps wouldnt want the system shaken up by random reformers. In regard to your first paragraph, the ability to cease power during a crisis and standstill in government is different from the ability to control government in a day to day basis when everything is calmed down. Deng was able to suddenly grab power because of his force of personality and ballsack. When the situation isn't in such a weird crisis mode, people can slowly manuever themselves around Deng, same as they did with Mao until Mao launched the Cultural Revolution. Ya I understand that. I am just saying that even with this ability, it took him quite a while to reach out and get his program back on track after 89.
As for your second paragraph, yes that is what I'm saying. The Chinese government for all intents and purposes has people in power who know first hand what could happen to them if they fall out of power. They still have a lot of them around. Xi Jinping for example. Though I don't want to make the Chinese personalities in charge to be too machiavellen since I do believe they also want what's best for China (along with staying in power) which in their minds is NOT another cultural revolution as they know just how shitty it is.
Side note, the only thing I'm somewhat worried about though is when a new generation of leaders comes to power, one that never truly suffered or knew true fear like those that survived the cultural revolution did. Their confidence must be soaring which makes me wonder what they'll do in the future.
Ya I agree, the rise of the red royalty will have an interesting transformation on Chinese politics. Which is why I am skeptical about the privatization of the bigger pieces of the pie. If they do it, the people, or the kids, of those who are in charge now win while the people waiting in the wings for their chance at leadership in 2020 will be shit out of luck. Somehow I dont think they will be okay with that.
|
Wow, this is some good shit. Seriously entertaining read.
|
Awesome content, great fun to read!
To be fair, some western analysis of the Chinese economy almost exactly mirrors the conclusions laid out in this article. However, with the background music and your strong literary voice, this is definitely the most entertaining read I've had on economics in a long, long time. Thanks for posting.
|
On September 07 2012 11:10 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 07:12 wklbishop wrote:On September 07 2012 05:29 Sub40APM wrote: Ah I see what you are saying and thats fair enough but I guess my point was generally that the Cun Yun - Li Peng leadership axis was different -- and in many ways opposed -- to Deng's reformist tendencies. Obviously if Deng ultimately wanted to prevent the massacre he could have but I think we have to be careful about ascribing to him too much power. After all, if his will could triumph over standing committee members then why 3 year freeze on economic liberalization, and why did he have to do the southern tour? I think its not unreasonable to say that people like Li Peng were concerned about their own positions and by striking down the students ensured their continued domination of the nation.
But if you are saying that everyone in the Chinese power structure was scared of the second cultural revolution because the first, fundamentally, undermined the bureaucratic state in favor of Maoist charisma based leadership (which I think was Maos goal anyway, to keep the cadres scared) then sure I agree, the people who climbed the ladder of success through numerous complex steps wouldnt want the system shaken up by random reformers. In regard to your first paragraph, the ability to cease power during a crisis and standstill in government is different from the ability to control government in a day to day basis when everything is calmed down. Deng was able to suddenly grab power because of his force of personality and ballsack. When the situation isn't in such a weird crisis mode, people can slowly manuever themselves around Deng, same as they did with Mao until Mao launched the Cultural Revolution. Ya I understand that. I am just saying that even with this ability, it took him quite a while to reach out and get his program back on track after 89. Show nested quote + As for your second paragraph, yes that is what I'm saying. The Chinese government for all intents and purposes has people in power who know first hand what could happen to them if they fall out of power. They still have a lot of them around. Xi Jinping for example. Though I don't want to make the Chinese personalities in charge to be too machiavellen since I do believe they also want what's best for China (along with staying in power) which in their minds is NOT another cultural revolution as they know just how shitty it is.
Side note, the only thing I'm somewhat worried about though is when a new generation of leaders comes to power, one that never truly suffered or knew true fear like those that survived the cultural revolution did. Their confidence must be soaring which makes me wonder what they'll do in the future.
Ya I agree, the rise of the red royalty will have an interesting transformation on Chinese politics. Which is why I am skeptical about the privatization of the bigger pieces of the pie. If they do it, the people, or the kids, of those who are in charge now win while the people waiting in the wings for their chance at leadership in 2020 will be shit out of luck. Somehow I dont think they will be okay with that. Those people in the wings waiting for 2022 can't do much about it, since so many of them are going to be scrambling to save their provinces from the debt overhang. While the past promotion criterias have all revolved around success, the next decade is going to revolve around survival
|
Yeah I had no idea economics could be this interesting, your an amazing writer.
|
awesome post! thanks a lot
|
Wow...
Need to read it again ><
Amazing read though...
|
FYI, China is going to use the reformers to back the privatization/democratization plans pretty heavily. But so far, those efforts have mainly been tossed around between the CYL faction. President-elect Xi is not a member of that grouping, but the fact that he is reaching out to them indicates that a broad-based consensus for this plan has been achieved.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/07/us-china-politics-xi-idUSBRE8860BI20120907
(Reuters) - China's president-in-waiting, Xi Jinping, has said the ruling Communist Party must embrace reform with fresh vigor to stave off social and economic malaise, sources said, citing accounts of comments he made at a meeting with a party reformer.
Xi met the prominent reformer, Hu Deping, in the past six weeks, the sources said, in a gesture intended to show he was listening to voices calling for not only faster economic liberalization but also a relaxation of political controls.
China's new leadership team, to take the reins of power from March next year, faces a slowing economy and demands from inside and outside the party to tackle problems that reformists see as threats to both growth and social stability - such as a yawning wealth gap, limited political freedom and corruption.
PS Hu Deping is the son of Hu Yaobang, the dude in the white coat and tie who shepherded the rise of Hu Jintao and Wen Jiabao (the other 2 dudes to his right in that picture)
|
On September 08 2012 11:42 Shady Sands wrote:FYI, China is going to use the reformers to back the privatization/democratization plans pretty heavily. But so far, those efforts have mainly been tossed around between the CYL faction. President-elect Xi is not a member of that grouping, but the fact that he is reaching out to them indicates that a broad-based consensus for this plan has been achieved. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/07/us-china-politics-xi-idUSBRE8860BI20120907Show nested quote +(Reuters) - China's president-in-waiting, Xi Jinping, has said the ruling Communist Party must embrace reform with fresh vigor to stave off social and economic malaise, sources said, citing accounts of comments he made at a meeting with a party reformer.
Xi met the prominent reformer, Hu Deping, in the past six weeks, the sources said, in a gesture intended to show he was listening to voices calling for not only faster economic liberalization but also a relaxation of political controls.
China's new leadership team, to take the reins of power from March next year, faces a slowing economy and demands from inside and outside the party to tackle problems that reformists see as threats to both growth and social stability - such as a yawning wealth gap, limited political freedom and corruption. PS Hu Deping is the son of Hu Yaobang, the dude in the white coat and tie who shepherded the rise of Hu Jintao and Wen Jiabao (the other 2 dudes to his right in that picture) I am still skeptical. As I said a couple posts ago, it was under the Hu-Wan leadership that consumption as % of GDP dropped to 34%. That literally is a historic record -- for anywhere in the world -- and now we have the announcement of new stimulus that will once again focus on infrastructure, property and other capital misallocating crap that the consumer will have to pay for, thus driving down consumption some more. In my opinion the vested interests who like things the way they are now are too powerful for any kind of non-crisis led reforms. The last round of genuine reforms was in the early 90s under Zhu Rongji and to get them off the ground required a banking crisis that ate 1/3rd of the then GDP. So best case, crisis first, reform later. worst case. crisis first, stagnation later.
|
Good but heh i'll have to re-read again You made the whole thing much more interesting than i could have imagined
|
I assume that the facts youve told us... are true.. just an assumption.. have you considered the impact of those facts youve told us?
If put china in a green-red real-estate-map from 2000-2010... Green = cheap, red = expensive... You will probably notice a few things...
Besides HK, Guangdong, Shanghai en Beijing... You will see that the province ZheJiang is RED, even the bloody countrysides... When I talk to people in china, they put massively the blame on Wenzhou-people for letting the real estate prices grow that quick. And of course chinese people are masters in copying... so other people copied the crap and voila you get everywhere ghost cities.
I dont know how much impact this has on the economy growth but its a serious factor.
Another factor is, since first and the generation chinese people abroad are keep sending money in china (in my home-village, the beer was even more expensive then in amsterdam...) for like euh? 40 years? What happens if you keep sending money to a certain area? Its like giving every month 1000 euro/dollar to a child in afghanistan...
And one of the biggest thing Ive noticed... the past 25 years, china is being ruled like a big bad ass company. If you have all noticed, the RMB-USD exchange rate was fixed for many years. Basicly said, the chinese shitty products were freaking cheap. The counter part of this is the inflation (negative effect on the economy), but who does a sh!t cares about it if the growth is bigger then the inflation? its just balance...
As long if your balance is positive, it doesnt matter. Like just spend 500 minerals of lings to the enemy to keep them busy with your income is 600 minerals....
Policies? Laws? Worker-care? Insurance? well... without those you can abuse the employees to the max, its nearly slavery. You can produce at a very low cost. Sell them in dollars... If you do that like euh... +25 years? you have a large surpluss of dollars stockpiled. And of course USA just spends them.. if they need some cash? Well do the treasury loan... China is happy to provide the dollars. This is why USA has a huge debt towards china...
USA is spending borrowed money, China is just saving up the money and supply the loans... This isnt rocket science but a simple chart flow would do the trick.
Democracy in china? Are you seriously kidding me? We in the netherlands, have a political party called, Partij voor de Animal, euh... just say its like the Al Qaeda for the animals (its a bit exagerating but still...). They still have a seat in the political arena... We had almost a Party for Pedophilia... In this little country with +16 milion people...
If i read the news, I cant believe that USA has a large movement called the Tea party. I have limited information about them but if Ms Palin says things like "Obviously, we've gotta stand with our North Korean allies"... Seriously I thought we arent that freaking stupid? (I say the word stupid because I dont wanna insult the yankees )
Luckily the majority of the western population arent that stupid...
Dont think that the chinese population is that "smart". Just like in Egypt its better to have a "dictator" then a religious or a fascism or something we all dont like. And the funny thing "generally speaking" all what chinese people care about are... their blood line and the money... They dont give a crap who rules the country as long they can get rich and get a football team of sons. Oh they are all heavily manipulated, not only by their government, also by the people amongs them including the family. I dont wanna call it but this is a succesfull version of fascism based on capitcalism.
Ive did a small research for a friend of mine. I took a foreigner (aka white dude), a +2 generation abroad chinese (2gen), first generation abroad chinese (1gen), a chinese from china (yellow dude) and a student from china which is studying abroad(goldseeker).
Ive put them all to do a small task which requires intelligence, creativiness and more crap...
The yellow dude, is a master of copying and only does it according to the instructions. The goldseeker, is just the same as the yellow dude but a little bit faster. The white dude, doesnt care a sh!t about it and tries to do the task in the most efficient way. 2gen, is just the same as the foreigner but has small influence like the yellow dude. Aka Banana for the people from china. 1gen, hopeless and stuck in their time when they left china. The educated ones can keep with the present but the non-educated ones still thinks they are still in china.
Basicly said... Chinese people arent capable enough to think indepently, think creative or say f*ck this sh!t Im not gonna do this according this instruction, I wanna do it on my own way. People in china are just like Sheeps...
China isnt like any other Elephant.. Its a wannabe Elephant. I hope the Communist Party keeps the power and supress the people. Even I dont want to see it happen but there are just "TOO MANY YELLOW DUDES" out there... China should stop being a bad ass company but a charity company for a few years... otherwise the world has a problem...
PS. I havent talked about the serious sh!t like corruption, discrimination and such... 5th Generation in the Netherlands, and yes my grandpa has a triple size A0 poster of Mao in his living room... FML
|
This was very interesting, thank you. I sort of wrote you off since you had an ungodly number of posts and were still scv but, even taken with a grain of salt, this was a very insightful. It makes American history look very tame
|
I chuckled at the Zhang Ziyi part. It was a really nice write up! Thank you!
|
This was written very well, much better then an essay i'd write. I am now very interested to see if China will move to become more democratic, something i had never thought or known anything about previously to your post!
|
OP I know very little about the subject, nor could I fully understand it after only 1 reading, however you're making Deng Xiao Ping sound like a mastermind. :O
Now I remember who you are :D Great write up
On September 09 2012 11:06 renzy wrote: I chuckled at the Zhang Ziyi part. It was a really nice write up! Thank you!
That part made me kinda depressed later on man......
|
On September 09 2012 17:53 JieXian wrote:OP I know very little about the subject, nor could I fully understand it after only 1 reading, however you're making Deng Xiao Ping sound like a mastermind. :O Now I remember who you are :D Great write up Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 11:06 renzy wrote: I chuckled at the Zhang Ziyi part. It was a really nice write up! Thank you! That part made me kinda depressed later on man...... What's so depressing about Zhang Ziyi? She's super hot lol
|
On September 09 2012 18:19 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 17:53 JieXian wrote:OP I know very little about the subject, nor could I fully understand it after only 1 reading, however you're making Deng Xiao Ping sound like a mastermind. :O Now I remember who you are :D Great write up On September 09 2012 11:06 renzy wrote: I chuckled at the Zhang Ziyi part. It was a really nice write up! Thank you! That part made me kinda depressed later on man...... What's so depressing about Zhang Ziyi? She's super hot lol
Of course she is but the situation where you brought her up reminded me of the Korean entertainment industry a bit.
She didn't have much choice right?
or there could be the other possibility ....
|
On September 09 2012 23:49 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 18:19 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 17:53 JieXian wrote:OP I know very little about the subject, nor could I fully understand it after only 1 reading, however you're making Deng Xiao Ping sound like a mastermind. :O Now I remember who you are :D Great write up On September 09 2012 11:06 renzy wrote: I chuckled at the Zhang Ziyi part. It was a really nice write up! Thank you! That part made me kinda depressed later on man...... What's so depressing about Zhang Ziyi? She's super hot lol Of course she is but the situation where you brought her up reminded me of the Korean entertainment industry a bit. She didn't have much choice right? or there could be the other possibility .... Well Mrs. Zhang is very rich and successful now.
|
On September 10 2012 00:12 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 23:49 JieXian wrote:On September 09 2012 18:19 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 17:53 JieXian wrote:OP I know very little about the subject, nor could I fully understand it after only 1 reading, however you're making Deng Xiao Ping sound like a mastermind. :O Now I remember who you are :D Great write up On September 09 2012 11:06 renzy wrote: I chuckled at the Zhang Ziyi part. It was a really nice write up! Thank you! That part made me kinda depressed later on man...... What's so depressing about Zhang Ziyi? She's super hot lol Of course she is but the situation where you brought her up reminded me of the Korean entertainment industry a bit. She didn't have much choice right? or there could be the other possibility .... Well Mrs. Zhang is very rich and successful now.
if it was her husband you could have said so >_>
|
On September 10 2012 00:12 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 23:49 JieXian wrote:On September 09 2012 18:19 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 17:53 JieXian wrote:OP I know very little about the subject, nor could I fully understand it after only 1 reading, however you're making Deng Xiao Ping sound like a mastermind. :O Now I remember who you are :D Great write up On September 09 2012 11:06 renzy wrote: I chuckled at the Zhang Ziyi part. It was a really nice write up! Thank you! That part made me kinda depressed later on man...... What's so depressing about Zhang Ziyi? She's super hot lol Of course she is but the situation where you brought her up reminded me of the Korean entertainment industry a bit. She didn't have much choice right? or there could be the other possibility .... Well Mrs. Zhang is very rich and successful now.
Zhang Ziyi is married? Since when? Also, I think she got pretty rich....banging officials like Bo Xi Lai already. Something like 10 million US from doing that? Maybe that number is even higher.
|
On September 10 2012 00:29 renzy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 00:12 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 23:49 JieXian wrote:On September 09 2012 18:19 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 17:53 JieXian wrote:OP I know very little about the subject, nor could I fully understand it after only 1 reading, however you're making Deng Xiao Ping sound like a mastermind. :O Now I remember who you are :D Great write up On September 09 2012 11:06 renzy wrote: I chuckled at the Zhang Ziyi part. It was a really nice write up! Thank you! That part made me kinda depressed later on man...... What's so depressing about Zhang Ziyi? She's super hot lol Of course she is but the situation where you brought her up reminded me of the Korean entertainment industry a bit. She didn't have much choice right? or there could be the other possibility .... Well Mrs. Zhang is very rich and successful now. Zhang Ziyi is married? Since when? Also, I think she got pretty rich....banging officials like Bo Xi Lai already. Something like 10 million US from doing that? Maybe that number is even higher. Zhang is single and a very clever girl. Her wealth actually mostly comes from a production company she's set up which also doubles as a real estate holding company. That entity provides a convenient way for other rich Chinese to move assets overseas, since all her films have overseas revenues and expenditures, which means her firm has a clearance from the State Administration of Foreign Exchange to move cash through China's capital controls
|
Hm...I'm not quite sure what to make of your predictions. China, fuck yea?
|
On September 10 2012 00:32 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 00:29 renzy wrote:On September 10 2012 00:12 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 23:49 JieXian wrote:On September 09 2012 18:19 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 17:53 JieXian wrote:OP I know very little about the subject, nor could I fully understand it after only 1 reading, however you're making Deng Xiao Ping sound like a mastermind. :O Now I remember who you are :D Great write up On September 09 2012 11:06 renzy wrote: I chuckled at the Zhang Ziyi part. It was a really nice write up! Thank you! That part made me kinda depressed later on man...... What's so depressing about Zhang Ziyi? She's super hot lol Of course she is but the situation where you brought her up reminded me of the Korean entertainment industry a bit. She didn't have much choice right? or there could be the other possibility .... Well Mrs. Zhang is very rich and successful now. Zhang Ziyi is married? Since when? Also, I think she got pretty rich....banging officials like Bo Xi Lai already. Something like 10 million US from doing that? Maybe that number is even higher. Zhang is single and a very clever girl. Her wealth actually mostly comes from a production company she's set up which also doubles as a real estate holding company. That entity provides a convenient way for other rich Chinese to move assets overseas, since all her films have overseas revenues and expenditures, which means her firm has a clearance from the State Administration of Foreign Exchange to move cash through China's capital controls
So many details missing that would change what that earlier sentance meant man...
Wow
|
I loved her in crouching tiger hidden dragon
|
GREAT post fantastic post best post i have ever read on tl thank you
|
On September 10 2012 06:48 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 00:32 Shady Sands wrote:On September 10 2012 00:29 renzy wrote:On September 10 2012 00:12 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 23:49 JieXian wrote:On September 09 2012 18:19 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 17:53 JieXian wrote:OP I know very little about the subject, nor could I fully understand it after only 1 reading, however you're making Deng Xiao Ping sound like a mastermind. :O Now I remember who you are :D Great write up On September 09 2012 11:06 renzy wrote: I chuckled at the Zhang Ziyi part. It was a really nice write up! Thank you! That part made me kinda depressed later on man...... What's so depressing about Zhang Ziyi? She's super hot lol Of course she is but the situation where you brought her up reminded me of the Korean entertainment industry a bit. She didn't have much choice right? or there could be the other possibility .... Well Mrs. Zhang is very rich and successful now. Zhang Ziyi is married? Since when? Also, I think she got pretty rich....banging officials like Bo Xi Lai already. Something like 10 million US from doing that? Maybe that number is even higher. Zhang is single and a very clever girl. Her wealth actually mostly comes from a production company she's set up which also doubles as a real estate holding company. That entity provides a convenient way for other rich Chinese to move assets overseas, since all her films have overseas revenues and expenditures, which means her firm has a clearance from the State Administration of Foreign Exchange to move cash through China's capital controls So many details missing that would change what that earlier sentance meant man... Wow According more than a few Chinese girls I've dated, Zhang is the epitome of the type of girl they want to become (confident, self-successful, has men wrapped around her finger, etc.)
|
On September 10 2012 15:05 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 06:48 JieXian wrote:On September 10 2012 00:32 Shady Sands wrote:On September 10 2012 00:29 renzy wrote:On September 10 2012 00:12 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 23:49 JieXian wrote:On September 09 2012 18:19 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 17:53 JieXian wrote:OP I know very little about the subject, nor could I fully understand it after only 1 reading, however you're making Deng Xiao Ping sound like a mastermind. :O Now I remember who you are :D Great write up On September 09 2012 11:06 renzy wrote: I chuckled at the Zhang Ziyi part. It was a really nice write up! Thank you! That part made me kinda depressed later on man...... What's so depressing about Zhang Ziyi? She's super hot lol Of course she is but the situation where you brought her up reminded me of the Korean entertainment industry a bit. She didn't have much choice right? or there could be the other possibility .... Well Mrs. Zhang is very rich and successful now. Zhang Ziyi is married? Since when? Also, I think she got pretty rich....banging officials like Bo Xi Lai already. Something like 10 million US from doing that? Maybe that number is even higher. Zhang is single and a very clever girl. Her wealth actually mostly comes from a production company she's set up which also doubles as a real estate holding company. That entity provides a convenient way for other rich Chinese to move assets overseas, since all her films have overseas revenues and expenditures, which means her firm has a clearance from the State Administration of Foreign Exchange to move cash through China's capital controls So many details missing that would change what that earlier sentance meant man... Wow According more than a few Chinese girls I've dated, Zhang is the epitome of the type of girl they want to become (confident, self-successful, has men wrapped around her finger, etc.)
Every Taiwanese woman has their husband (even bf maybe?) wrapped around their finger already right? I don't get their culture lol
|
interesting article but i can't stomach the pretentious style and in your face imagery, but alas this is how most academically minded people write. also wished the writer distanced himself from the topic a little bit more since he comes across as too biased for me.
|
On September 10 2012 16:02 Gen.Rolly wrote: interesting article but i can't stomach the pretentious style and in your face imagery, but alas this is how most academically minded people write. also wished the writer distanced himself from the topic a little bit more since he comes across as too biased for me.
Well actually his imagery is mild were it a Chinese essay. Any commoner uses a lot of proverbs and it's really normal. Even my uneducated grandmother tosses proverbs around.
|
nice article, i would like to know more about the politics of china. where can i read more?
|
Enjoyed the Read allways liked the way china is in control :<
|
On September 10 2012 16:02 Gen.Rolly wrote: interesting article but i can't stomach the pretentious style and in your face imagery, but alas this is how most academically minded people write. also wished the writer distanced himself from the topic a little bit more since he comes across as too biased for me.
Standard Chinese state of affairs is that they will tell you all about what they think of the west, but you better keep your opinions of China to yourself.
|
Thank you sir for this very sharp and interesting piece of opinion.
|
damn. I read this for about 5 minutes and I instantly like this Deng guy. He seems like a really smart motherfucker
|
This was an incredible post. Thank you
|
Well informed article, good sense of humor and some well chosen music to give it personality.
You're going places : )
|
|
Oh my fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
|
mind=blown. fascinating read.
|
The forces of statism are pushing back with the nationalism card:
http://www.qstheory.cn/zxdk/2012/201218/201209/t20120912_181094.htm
SOEs are integral to holistically developing China's economy and increasing Chinese competitiveness vis-a-vis other countries. Even though a few SOEs are monopolies, their overall efficiency remains high. [...] Precisely because of this, Western countries want to wreck our nation's SOEs. In recent years, many overseas expansion plans of Chinese SOEs have been hampered by Western political forces and special interest groups. As such, we must clearly understand--the purpose of reform is to eliminate our weaknesses while protecting our strengths; reforming monopolies cannot entail losing the strengths of Chinese state capitalist system.
国企在带动多种所有制经济共同发展、共同提高国际竞争力上,发挥了突出的作用。即使一些垄断行业的国企,效率也很高 [...] 正因为如此,西方国家要刻意打压我国的国企。近年来屡屡发生的国企海外投资受挫,背后都有西方政治势力和利益集团的干预。对此,我们应该有清醒的认识。改革是为了兴利除弊,推进垄断行业改革绝不是要改掉我们的固有优势。
The article also brings up PetroChina as an example of a "good SOE", "defeating foreign oil companies" and "securing economic resources for China abroad."
|
My dear friend SS, do you recommend any books that explains the Chinese economy in the manner that you do, or rather speaks of the same things as you did but more in depth?
|
On September 19 2012 17:06 Azera wrote: My dear friend SS, do you recommend any books that explains the Chinese economy in the manner that you do, or rather speaks of the same things as you did but more in depth?
The Search for Modern China is a pretty good read. Obviously, as it's a book, it's not written in as nearly as casual or "cool" fashion, but it's still very interesting regardless. I'm sure SS has some other great recommendations.
|
On September 19 2012 18:19 Funnytoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 17:06 Azera wrote: My dear friend SS, do you recommend any books that explains the Chinese economy in the manner that you do, or rather speaks of the same things as you did but more in depth? The Search for Modern China is a pretty good read. Obviously, as it's a book, it's not written in as nearly as casual or "cool" fashion, but it's still very interesting regardless. I'm sure SS has some other great recommendations.
The Chinese economy is a pretty vast topic; to understand it, it's good to have a general grasp of economics, then a solid grasp of developmental economics within the larger field of economics, and then a great grasp of Chinese politics, history, and culture on top of that--and finally time spent with people who've been inside the "China game".
Start with a few key concepts:
The point of economics is to get/make more stuff that people can use/enjoy Skip Smith (unless your professor requires you to read it) and just remember property rights and a free (or at least dynamic) market increases labor specialization/capital investment which increases productivity Skip Marx (unless assigned by professor) and just remember that the value of the labor/capital you put into something and the value of the utility you derive from something are often completely different and this differential is the root of all economic gains or losses
Basically just remember that to be productive, a country has to increase the amount of labor (via specialization) and capital (via investment); but to be rich and enjoy a high standard of living, a country has to not waste its labor and capital on useless stuff; and that a country usually learns to become productive before it learns to become rich
Then get technical and learn the math/conceptual endoskeleton (you'll need basic calc for these but since you're singaporean this probably isn't an issue):
Basic microeconomics books: start with Varian, keep reading others if interested Basic macroeconomics books: start with Barro, keep reading others if interested Basic game theory: not the math, but at least understand how a Nash equilibrium functions on a conceptual level
After you finish those 3 then go for
Basic macroecon/finance papers: start with Diamond-Dybvig, don't read any further until you learn financial accounting and the banking laws/policies of whatever country you want to live in Basic governance papers: Acemoglu (for seeing how and why politicians react the way they do towards economic numbers)
Then pick up on specific topics in micro/macro:
Keynes Friedman/Hayek Lucas critique of Keynes Krugman's books on New Trade Theory (stay away from his later stuff as it's mostly ideological BS... read this instead--it's the shit that won him the nobel) Skip any of that other BS on developmental economics since other than E. Asia, Japan, and Germany no region has gone from poor/agricultural to mid-income/manufacturing or rich/developed, and other than Krugman's works on NTT no one else has properly explained how E Asia, Japan, and Germany went from poor to rich
----
Then go for China books:
Start with history, since it's the easiest to read: Zizhi Tongjian -- easy to read historical primer on monodynastic China (e.g. what China is like when ruled by a single group of people)
If you have time, read these (or at least the cliff notes): Shi Ji by Sima Qian Zhan Guo Ce -- basically the Romance of the Three Kingdoms with less embellishment and more detail on the political machinations
(If you'd like to date a Chinese girl, read Dream of the Red Chamber while you're at it)
Then go modern: The Party by James MacGregor is kind of a kook book but a good introduction. Then go for Factions and Finance by Victor Shih Read any books you can about the Great Leap Forward--preferably books with reliable numbers tho they're rare. Then read books about Chinese development from 1978-1988 (plenty of books abt 78-88 with numbers). Useful for a compare/contrast of fail/win economic policy on essentially the same poor, rural provincial population. Finally, read the three books by Brandt, Bransetter, and Allen on China's economic reform
----
All of the above should take you 2-3 years of off and on reading. Next, start reaching out to people who are intelligent about the subject but removed enough from "the game" to give you an unbiased view. Ideal candidates are professors with tenure or scholars close to retirement, since they'll be old enough to take a long view and also far enough from promotions to give you a relatively unclouded answer to any questions you have. Retired officials are also a great source of wisdom.
|
28084 Posts
Very interesting read. As a econ major myself(eng minor), I find the chinese economy very fascinating. Also, thank you for your post above mine I will have to read some of those books.
|
|
Hey, just wanna ask, how difficult will it be for me to gain a rudimentary understanding (enough to make sense of the underlying complexities of the Chinese economy) with a really poor Maths background? I'm only doing Maths at a H1 level for my A levels, so I can't nearly make any sense of game theory and all that complicated stuff.
|
On October 01 2012 00:41 Xiahou wrote:Hey, just wanna ask, how difficult will it be for me to gain a rudimentary understanding (enough to make sense of the underlying complexities of the Chinese economy) with a really poor Maths background? I'm only doing Maths at a H1 level for my A levels, so I can't nearly make any sense of game theory and all that complicated stuff.
Not very. Most of the conceptual stuff will be easy to grasp--how good are you at integrating abstract concepts?
|
On October 01 2012 02:35 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 00:41 Xiahou wrote:Hey, just wanna ask, how difficult will it be for me to gain a rudimentary understanding (enough to make sense of the underlying complexities of the Chinese economy) with a really poor Maths background? I'm only doing Maths at a H1 level for my A levels, so I can't nearly make any sense of game theory and all that complicated stuff. Not very. Most of the conceptual stuff will be easy to grasp--how good are you at integrating abstract concepts?
Pretty good I think. I've never had to delve too deeply into economics before but my aptitude ands interest has always favored the humanities over sciences.
|
On October 01 2012 08:08 Xiahou wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 02:35 Shady Sands wrote:On October 01 2012 00:41 Xiahou wrote:Hey, just wanna ask, how difficult will it be for me to gain a rudimentary understanding (enough to make sense of the underlying complexities of the Chinese economy) with a really poor Maths background? I'm only doing Maths at a H1 level for my A levels, so I can't nearly make any sense of game theory and all that complicated stuff. Not very. Most of the conceptual stuff will be easy to grasp--how good are you at integrating abstract concepts? Pretty good I think. I've never had to delve too deeply into economics before but my aptitude ands interest has always favored the humanities over sciences. Then you'll do pretty fine. Most math in Econ is highly intuitive anyhow. Start reading Varian and let me know if you run into problems
|
Statement from Bo GuaGua:
Personally, it is hard for me to believe the allegations that were announced against my father, because they contradict everything I have come to know about him throughout my life. Although the policies my father enacted are open to debate, the father I know is upright in his beliefs and devoted to duty. He has always taught me to be my own person and to have concern for causes greater than ourselves. I have tried to follow his advice. At this point, I expect the legal process to follow its normal course, and I will await the result.
What kind of person who is "upright in his beliefs and devoted to duty" names their son "GuaGua"?? He probably doesn't even care if other kids make fun of his son's name, jesus christ lol.
|
On October 01 2012 08:44 Kalingingsong wrote:Show nested quote +Statement from Bo GuaGua:
Personally, it is hard for me to believe the allegations that were announced against my father, because they contradict everything I have come to know about him throughout my life. Although the policies my father enacted are open to debate, the father I know is upright in his beliefs and devoted to duty. He has always taught me to be my own person and to have concern for causes greater than ourselves. I have tried to follow his advice. At this point, I expect the legal process to follow its normal course, and I will await the result. What kind of person who is "upright in his beliefs and devoted to duty" names their son "GuaGua"?? jesus christ. lol
Can't speak for naming conventions. I've always thought Chinese post-1949 naming conventions were a little illogical... my own family's included.
An aside: I've met Bo Guagua before, and he struck me as a pretty chill guy. Unfortunately, those close to him (not me) don't describe him as the most analytical or discerning of his peers. The two Chinese phrases they use would be “善" closely followed by "没心眼"... I'll leave it to the other Chinese people in this thread to translate that.
|
err so he's compassionate, but not wise?
My Chinese is terribad so correct me on that one.
|
On October 03 2012 15:30 RavenLoud wrote: err so he's compassionate, but not wise?
My Chinese is terribad so correct me on that one. something like that. basically he's too nice to play "the game", but unfortunately he was pretty much born into it
|
I think it means he doesnt have big enough balls and is too empathetic to go into something as ruthless as "the game".
Thanks for the reply btw, ss. Is that how you became a wizard?
|
Thought that this would be a fun share:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/romney-delivers-stern-warning-to-china-speaking-di,30053/
Simplified:
中国的领导,我毫不含糊地向你们肯定,当我做了总统,我一定会确保中国遵守国际贸易规则。你们国家长久以来用操纵汇率让你们自己的制造业受益,打击我们美国的制造业。这是不公平的!我的政府不会接受中国这样的行为。当我进白宫的第一天,我就会把中国列入‘汇率操纵国。’这是对你们的警告。
English:
Leaders of China, I want to make it perfectly clear to you that when I am President, I will definitely ensure that China abides by international trade regulations. For a long time, your country has used exchange rate manipulation for the benefit of your manufacturing industry and to the detriment of our American manufacturing industry. This is not fair! My government will not accept this type of Chinese behavior. From the first day I enter the White House, I will list China as an "exchange rate manipulator." This is your warning.
|
Very well written from a political point of view. But China isn't just a political unity anymore. Its citizens might want to achieve democracy (more precisely the semi-democracy our western countries have) but in their ideas that's becoming irrelevant.
China doesn't want to be a democracy, they just want to stand at the top of the world and look down on the rest of the world (just like Korea), nationalistic feelings will grow in China simultaneously to the building of democracy because they need a democracy to be accepted by the western world.
What will happen after that ? Who knows ? Hopefully by the time China is a the top, Europa will have decentralized and distributed its power enough in a political entity so that we don't have to suffer from its economical position. On the other hand, I only predict hard times for Africa. They might be happy now with China investing there but it will be no better than colonization in a few decades.
|
On October 23 2012 22:52 Otolia wrote: Very well written from a political point of view. But China isn't just a political unity anymore. Its citizens might want to achieve democracy (more precisely the semi-democracy our western countries have) but in their ideas that's becoming irrelevant.
China doesn't want to be a democracy, they just want to stand at the top of the world and look down on the rest of the world (just like Korea), nationalistic feelings will grow in China simultaneously to the building of democracy because they need a democracy to be accepted by the western world.
What will happen after that ? Who knows ? Hopefully by the time China is a the top, Europa will have decentralized and distributed its power enough in a political entity so that we don't have to suffer from its economical position. On the other hand, I only predict hard times for Africa. They might be happy now with China investing there but it will be no better than colonization in a few decades. Bolded part is absolute bullshit.
EDIT: The rest of the post doesn't seem very coherent, please elaborate.
|
On October 26 2012 03:33 RavenLoud wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 22:52 Otolia wrote: Very well written from a political point of view. But China isn't just a political unity anymore. Its citizens might want to achieve democracy (more precisely the semi-democracy our western countries have) but in their ideas that's becoming irrelevant.
China doesn't want to be a democracy, they just want to stand at the top of the world and look down on the rest of the world (just like Korea), nationalistic feelings will grow in China simultaneously to the building of democracy because they need a democracy to be accepted by the western world.
What will happen after that ? Who knows ? Hopefully by the time China is a the top, Europa will have decentralized and distributed its power enough in a political entity so that we don't have to suffer from its economical position. On the other hand, I only predict hard times for Africa. They might be happy now with China investing there but it will be no better than colonization in a few decades. Bolded part is absolute bullshit. EDIT: The rest of the post doesn't seem very coherent, please elaborate. China doesn't want to look down on the rest of the world, China just wants to make money off the rest of the world. Doesn't make people hate them any less but it's a pretty big difference
|
On October 26 2012 11:12 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 03:33 RavenLoud wrote:On October 23 2012 22:52 Otolia wrote: Very well written from a political point of view. But China isn't just a political unity anymore. Its citizens might want to achieve democracy (more precisely the semi-democracy our western countries have) but in their ideas that's becoming irrelevant.
China doesn't want to be a democracy, they just want to stand at the top of the world and look down on the rest of the world (just like Korea), nationalistic feelings will grow in China simultaneously to the building of democracy because they need a democracy to be accepted by the western world.
What will happen after that ? Who knows ? Hopefully by the time China is a the top, Europa will have decentralized and distributed its power enough in a political entity so that we don't have to suffer from its economical position. On the other hand, I only predict hard times for Africa. They might be happy now with China investing there but it will be no better than colonization in a few decades. Bolded part is absolute bullshit. EDIT: The rest of the post doesn't seem very coherent, please elaborate. China doesn't want to look down on the rest of the world, China just wants to make money off the rest of the world. Doesn't make people hate them any less but it's a pretty big difference Yeah that's what I thought.
Otolia seems to think that China would repay the favor of the Opium Wars to Europe, which is pure fantasy.
Always funny to see Europeans lecture others on neo-colonianism too.
|
On October 26 2012 11:41 RavenLoud wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 11:12 Shady Sands wrote:On October 26 2012 03:33 RavenLoud wrote:On October 23 2012 22:52 Otolia wrote: Very well written from a political point of view. But China isn't just a political unity anymore. Its citizens might want to achieve democracy (more precisely the semi-democracy our western countries have) but in their ideas that's becoming irrelevant.
China doesn't want to be a democracy, they just want to stand at the top of the world and look down on the rest of the world (just like Korea), nationalistic feelings will grow in China simultaneously to the building of democracy because they need a democracy to be accepted by the western world.
What will happen after that ? Who knows ? Hopefully by the time China is a the top, Europa will have decentralized and distributed its power enough in a political entity so that we don't have to suffer from its economical position. On the other hand, I only predict hard times for Africa. They might be happy now with China investing there but it will be no better than colonization in a few decades. Bolded part is absolute bullshit. EDIT: The rest of the post doesn't seem very coherent, please elaborate. China doesn't want to look down on the rest of the world, China just wants to make money off the rest of the world. Doesn't make people hate them any less but it's a pretty big difference Yeah that's what I thought. Otolia seems to think that China would repay the favor of the Opium Wars to Europe, which is pure fantasy. Always funny to see Europeans lecture others on neo-colonianism too. lol, if China wanted to repay the favor of the Opium Wars, all it would have to do is decriminalize marijuana and refrain from prosecuting anyone smuggling it into the EU/USA
|
On October 26 2012 12:17 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 11:41 RavenLoud wrote:On October 26 2012 11:12 Shady Sands wrote:On October 26 2012 03:33 RavenLoud wrote:On October 23 2012 22:52 Otolia wrote: Very well written from a political point of view. But China isn't just a political unity anymore. Its citizens might want to achieve democracy (more precisely the semi-democracy our western countries have) but in their ideas that's becoming irrelevant.
China doesn't want to be a democracy, they just want to stand at the top of the world and look down on the rest of the world (just like Korea), nationalistic feelings will grow in China simultaneously to the building of democracy because they need a democracy to be accepted by the western world.
What will happen after that ? Who knows ? Hopefully by the time China is a the top, Europa will have decentralized and distributed its power enough in a political entity so that we don't have to suffer from its economical position. On the other hand, I only predict hard times for Africa. They might be happy now with China investing there but it will be no better than colonization in a few decades. Bolded part is absolute bullshit. EDIT: The rest of the post doesn't seem very coherent, please elaborate. China doesn't want to look down on the rest of the world, China just wants to make money off the rest of the world. Doesn't make people hate them any less but it's a pretty big difference Yeah that's what I thought. Otolia seems to think that China would repay the favor of the Opium Wars to Europe, which is pure fantasy. Always funny to see Europeans lecture others on neo-colonianism too. lol, if China wanted to repay the favor of the Opium Wars, all it would have to do is decriminalize marijuana and refrain from prosecuting anyone smuggling it into the EU/USA ...that's actually brillant. Use Afghanistan to produce marijuana and export to the West.
Make billions.
|
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/26/business/global/family-of-wen-jiabao-holds-a-hidden-fortune-in-china.html?pagewanted=all&_r=2&&
Late one evening early this year, the prime minister’s only son, Wen Yunsong, was in the cigar lounge at Xiu, an upscale bar and lounge at the Park Hyatt in Beijing. He was having cocktails as Beijing’s nouveau riche gathered around, clutching designer bags and wearing expensive business suits, according to two guests who were present.
...
A Times review of Winston Wen’s investments, and interviews with people who have known him for years, show that his deal-making has been extensive and lucrative, even by the standards of his princeling peers.
State-run giants like China Mobile have formed start-ups with him. In recent years, Winston Wen has been in talks with Hollywood studios about a financing deal.
Concerned that China does not have an elite boarding school for Chinese students, he recently hired the headmasters of Choate and Hotchkiss in Connecticut to oversee the creation of a $150 million private school now being built in the Beijing suburbs.
Winston Wen and his wife, moreover, have stakes in the technology industry and an electric company, as well as an indirect stake in Union Mobile Pay, the government-backed online payment platform — all while living in the prime minister’s residence, in central Beijing, according to corporate records and people familiar with the family’s investments.
...
Winston Wen was educated in Beijing and then earned an engineering degree from the Beijing Institute of Technology. He went abroad and earned a master’s degree in engineering materials from the University of Windsor, in Canada, and an M.B.A. from the Kellogg School of Business at Northwestern University in Evanston, Ill., just outside Chicago.
When he returned to China in 2000, he helped set up three successful technology companies in five years, according to people familiar with those deals. Two of them were sold to Hong Kong businessmen, one to the family of Li Ka-shing, one of the wealthiest men in Asia.
Winston Wen’s earliest venture, an Internet data services provider called Unihub Global, was founded in 2000 with $2 million in start-up capital, according to Hong Kong and Beijing corporate filings. Financing came from a tight-knit group of relatives and his mother’s former colleagues from government and the diamond trade, as well as an associate of Cheng Yu-tung, patriarch of Hong Kong’s second-wealthiest family. The firm’s earliest customers were state-owned brokerage houses and Ping An, in which the Wen family has held a large financial stake.
He made an even bolder move in 2005, by pushing into private equity when he formed New Horizon Capital with a group of Chinese-born classmates from Northwestern. The firm quickly raised $100 million from investors, including SBI Holdings, a division of the Japanese group SoftBank, and Temasek, the Singapore government investment fund.
Under Mr. Wen, New Horizon established itself as a leading private equity firm, investing in biotech, solar, wind and construction equipment makers. Since it began operations, the firm has returned about $430 million to investors, a fourfold profit, according to SBI Holdings.
“Their first fund was dynamite,” said Kathleen Ng, editor of Asia Private Equity Review, an industry publication in Hong Kong. “And that allowed them to raise a lot more money.”
Today, New Horizon has more than $2.5 billion under management.
Some of Winston Wen’s deal-making, though, has attracted unwanted attention for the prime minister.
In 2010, when New Horizon acquired a 9 percent stake in a company called Sihuan Pharmaceuticals just two months before its public offering, the Hong Kong Stock Exchange said the late-stage investment violated its rules and forced the firm to return the stake. Still, New Horizon made a $46.5 million profit on the sale.
Soon after, New Horizon announced that Winston Wen had handed over day-to-day operations and taken up a position at the China Satellite Communications Corporation, a state-owned company that has ties to the Chinese space program. He has since been named chairman.
China's push for reform is basically going to set these fortunes free--in the sense that the money and influence of China's ruling class will no longer be "black" or "gray" (eastern european or Soviet-style--tied to a Leninist party) but rather "white" (Anglo-American style--tied to directorships, shareholdings, trust funds, endowments.)
And when that shift is made, China will become a democracy.
|
The one thing I find sad about China is that they want to become America so badly that they just want to copy the American model, without even considering whether the model fits or whether the model is even desirable.
China won't become a leading nation by copying the socio-economic structure of someone else.
|
On October 26 2012 12:35 Shady Sands wrote: The one thing I find sad about China is that they want to become America so badly that they just want to copy the American model, without even considering whether the model fits or whether the model is even desirable.
China won't become a leading nation by copying the socio-economic structure of someone else. I wonder about this as well. Another main problem from what I can imagine, is the lack of third party organizations independent from the CCP that can correctly identify mistakes in policies and take measures against them.
|
On October 26 2012 13:05 RavenLoud wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 12:35 Shady Sands wrote: The one thing I find sad about China is that they want to become America so badly that they just want to copy the American model, without even considering whether the model fits or whether the model is even desirable.
China won't become a leading nation by copying the socio-economic structure of someone else. I wonder about this as well. Another main problem from what I can imagine, is the lack of third party organizations independent from the CCP that can correctly identify mistakes in policies and take measures against them.
FYI take a look at this chart
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/10/25/business/the-wen-family-empire.html
This is why
a) Hong Kong will never, ever become independent--look at how the movers and shakers of HK (and Taiwan) are becoming commpletely intertwined with the mainland elites (and by extension, the Party)
b) This should give you a good idea as to why Chinese reformists want reform--because it offers a chance to legitimize all these stakes and directorships
|
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/28/us-china-economy-urbanisation-idUSBRE91R1H720130228
This is where the dumb money will come from, in terms of bailing out Chinese banks that are trapped in these 'evergreen' loans (e.g. loans where the principal is repaid with a new loan to the same source, in effect lengthening duration and tying up inordinate amounts of capital into keeping essentially insolvent entities afloat--all of which jacks up the implied cost of capital for non-politically connected firms)
Central and local governments, as well as bank loans, will fund the costs, the sources said. But, sweeping reforms to create a fully-functioning municipal bond market, boost corporate and high-yield bond issuance and actively steer foreign capital into the sector, are crucial to raising the sums of money China will need, they added.
FYI, I love having a girl I can talk this sort of stuff with... a pity I let her go once, she's now in Hong Kong, and I'll never be able to afford her, ever
|
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/18/us-china-economy-reform-idUSBRE92H10P20130318
(Reuters) - China is poised to launch its most serious economic reform drive since the 1990s after a series of top appointments at the weekend put the architects of Zhu Rongji's clash with state owned enterprises in charge of key economic agencies. Vice Premier Ma Kai, Finance Minister Lou Jiwei and central bank governor Zhou Xiaochuan were all Zhu lieutenants at the State Commission for Restructuring the Economy, which drew up the blueprint to sever the army's ties with business and make millions jobless as state-owned enterprises (SOEs) were reformed.
Yep, China is about to privatize everything that moves, and a lot of things that don't. Lou Jiwei, in particular, is a very unorthodox/heterodox Chinese bureaucrat-businessman (Chinese term: 官商). He was noted for being an aggressive 'young turk' back in the late 90s in his financial modeling/proposals to shake up SOEs. Ma Kai's a bit more conservative, but has a lot of deep political pull with SOEs through his tenure at the NDRC--my guess is Ma and Lou will play good-cop/bad-cop in dealing with SOEs, with Ma's velvet glove concealing Lou's iron fist.
Zhou Xiaochuan is staying in place because his job isn't done yet, and he's probably the only guy who knows how to finish it. It's a little like leaving a coder in place because sending in a new guy would require him to reinvent an insanely complex wheel.
(Sidenote: Lou is one of the few Chinese bureaucrats who is a fan of metal--death metal in particular. An apocryphal story has him trading a thousand-dollar bottle of Rothschild wine he got as a gift for a pair of front-row tickets to a Mastodon concert.)
|
Shady, I love reading these posts of yours, and this blog post in particular. The blog post itself was inspiring, and your follow up posts are also wonderful reads.
|
Honestly I think this entire generation of Chinese leaders is going to get screwed. Either they're going to have to rebalance so quickly that the Chinese economy collapses, or they're going to have to let the bubble burst. As for those SOEs, I think privatizing them will do nothing. Most of them are adding no new wealth to the economy anyways, they are just turning a profit since they can borrow at negative real rates thanks to the CCP fixing household savings rates at close to nothing.
|
On March 20 2013 03:22 iamho wrote: Honestly I think this entire generation of Chinese leaders is going to get screwed. Either they're going to have to rebalance so quickly that the Chinese economy collapses, or they're going to have to let the bubble burst. As for those SOEs, I think privatizing them will do nothing. Most of them are adding no new wealth to the economy anyways, they are just turning a profit since they can borrow at negative real rates thanks to the CCP fixing household savings rates at close to nothing.
The PSC is willing to let the bubble burst. That's why Bo had to go--the justification floating at elite levels was that Bo, being ambitious, might take cheap shots at Xi while he did open heart surgery on the Chinese economy.
Also, contrary to your assertions, privatizing the SOEs will partially fix the capital misallocation problem, because the theory is banks will be more reluctant to lend to freshly private companies without an implicitly government-backed balance sheet. Now, whether proves true in practice or not will depend on how deeply Li Keqiang decides to sever the institutional guanxi that bind SOEs and the big banks together on top of privatization. That's going to be the real acid test, and what the new administration is likely to spend most of its political capital doing.
|
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-11/chinas-third-plenum-get-ready-for-disappointment
China is about to hold its Third Plenum (三中全会). In the post-Mao cadence of Chinese politics, the Third Plenum has usually been the forum by which key personnel issues have been worked out, and the government can get to economic policy. What sets this forum apart from prior iterations is that China is about re-engineer its economy on a scale hitherto unimagined (or even unimaginable); however, expectations for this meeting are low due to the strength of special interest groups within the Communist Party.
+ Show Spoiler +In the runup to China’s Third Plenum, the excitement among reform advocates is palpable. Likely to open in early November, the key Communist Party meeting is expected to launch sweeping changes to the Chinese economy, say economists, officials, and local media. There is a precedent after all: At the best-known Third Plenum in 1978, paramount leader Deng Xiaoping announced gaige kaifang, or “reform and opening up,” ending the autarchic period of the Cultural Revolution and earlier decades, and throwing open China’s economy to market forces.
“Thirty-five years after the Communist Party of China (CPC) lifted the country out of 10 years of chaos and started economic reform and opening up, analysts say that the Third Plenary Session of the 18th Central Committee of CPC has the potential to be a landmark event,” said the official Xinhua News Agency on Oct. 9. “It can chart out a comprehensive plan to propel the world’s second-largest economy on a more sustainable growth path.”
But what if the plenum doesn’t deliver? Given the lofty hopes, that is a real possibility. And it’s a prospect that some are starting to consider. “High expectations about reforms to rebalance growth are likely to be disappointed by the outcome of the November plenum,” write economists Louis Kuijs (formerly based in Beijing with the World Bank) and Tiffany Qiu at the Royal Bank of Scotland in Hong Kong, in an Oct. 9 note.
STORY: World Bank Cuts East Asia Growth on China Slowing So what is likely to come out of the party meeting? There will probably be few specifics about what shape individual policies may take. But there will be no dearth of broad statements by top leaders, including Party Secretary Xi Jinping and Premier Li Keqiang, laying out long-term goals for the country. Of course, that will include the now familiar refrain that China must transform its economy to one driven much more by consumption and services and less by investment. We will also hear that China intends to upgrade its industries to produce higher-value, technology-oriented products, while stepping away from its labor-intensive, energy-wasting, and polluting role as factory to the world—so serving less and less as a maker of shoes, toys, textiles, and cheap electronics.
Yet among the many reform hopes bruited about in recent months, some have a much better shot at getting a push forward at the plenum. “Surveying key reform areas, we expect reasonably concrete principles and directions on how to move forward in November, and measures in the coming two years, in areas where there is not much resistance and thus a mandate for reform, such as financial and monetary reform, pricing and taxation of raw resources and more government spending on health, education and social security,” write Kuijs and Qiu.
Others areas, however—many of which are widely seen as key to China achieving its move to a more sustainable development—have much less chance of really making progress. Prime example: dealing with the outsize role that powerful state enterprises play in the Chinese economy. “We expect little clarity on objectives in November, and not many measures in the coming 2 years, in areas where the political economy is an obstacle and that have not been emphasized by senior leaders, such as leveling the playing field between SOEs” and private enterprise, write the Royal Bank of Scotland economists.
VIDEO: What Will Drive Economic Growth in China? “The benefits preferential policies bring to state-owned companies every year are huge,” points out Sheng Hong, director of the Beijing-based market reform-oriented Unirule Institute of Economics. “Taking them away is very difficult.”
Then there is another category: reforms cited by the Chinese leadership and economists as very important but that are also deeply complicated to carry out, not to mention controversial. Official statements emanating from the Third Plenum will likely talk in general about the desirability of pushing household registration and land ownership reforms—both key to giving rural Chinese and migrant workers more consumption power—and may announce limited pilot programs in both, but don’t expect nationwide policy breakthroughs.
That’s because everyone from urban residents who don’t want to share limited educational and health-care resources to local governments hooked on land revenues are powerful opponents to change. “If an official wants to develop his city, then the land surrounding it can be forcibly taken from farmers at a very low price, and the farmers cleared off,” says Unirule’s Sheng. “We call it land finance. Every local government relies on it.”
STORY: A Slowing China Needs Reform While slower progress on reforms won’t likely lead to economic collapse—despite what some China bears believe—foot-dragging nevertheless could create serious problems down the road. “China’s overall reform process could become skewed,” write Kuijs and Qiu. “If China maintains decent progress with necessary, politically easy ‘welfare state’ types of reforms, but cannot make progress with the politically difficult but essential growth and productivity-enhancing rebalancing reforms, the country could end up with a rebalanced but slower growing economy.”
Meanwhile, if China’s leaders don’t adopt reforms to make a more market-oriented economic and financial system, including by ending the serious favoritism shown to state-owned companies and allowing banks to make more commercially based lending decisions, risks could rise further. “If the reforms to adjust the economic structure and the domestic financial system cannot be implemented but the government presses ahead with capital account opening, the risks of financial instability would rise while misallocation of capital may actually also increase,” the RBS economists write.
|
Interesting I feel you should start on qing dynasty instead though. Also some difference in opinion for the history part but a good write up nethertheless
|
Physician
United States4146 Posts
1st thank you for the blog and follow ups, it is the sort of thing that keeps me coming back to teamliquid! 2nd I would like to add an observation and ask what your take is on the issue and how will China try to solve it.
I realize that, like your blind men, I am just touching the legs of the elephant but even from my vantage point of partial ignorance I can feel a fracture in one or two of its legs (can't help it, I guess my trade betrays me) and I despite my humble wisdom, I know that in the Serengeti, an elephant that breaks a leg, does not fare well. As for this broken leg, when it comes to China, I am referring to its impending demographic disaster.
So many years of one child policy has created a problem that may not have a solution, at least not in time to correct the dramatic changes it will bring about and with a low fertility rate, of < 1.5 (overall; it is lower in the 4 megacities, higher of course in rural areas, but over all its less than 1.5 and as low as 1 in places were it matters more), which is below the level that is considered incompatible with cultural survival - how and has China started to address these problems? Even if they managed to correct it today, instantly, many analysts in such matters suspect it is too late to prevent to prevent what will unfold. Europe has the same problems but it compensates it with immigration, China on the other hand as a youth drain.
http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/china-unprecedented-demographic-problem-takes-shape http://www.zerohedge.com/node/477976 http://www.economist.com/node/21553056 http://www.oecdobserver.org/news/archivestory.php/aid/40/China,_a_demographic_time_bomb.html
|
This was a fantastic Blog. Thanks for the great read Shady
|
Physician
United States4146 Posts
I see that in their Third Plenum they finally decided to ease off the one child policy. Personally I do not think they did enough to try and patch the demographic problems China will have to face in the next 20 years. https://oia.stanford.edu/node/16087
|
|
|
|