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First things first: I know it's bad to quit one job without having another one ready.
I worked here for exactly 3 years now and when i started, i had energy, an ok private life and i was physically quite fit, now i'm a human wreck, burnt out, phone contact list has only one entry ("work") and i gained 40 pounds, so it's unlikely that another company will hire me in my current state. I have programming knowledge that rivals R1CHs but i just don't have any energy left to offer.
However, i also know that nothing will change as long as i work here, so maybe after a month off from work it will be better. I told myself for the last year "ok, tomorrow i'll apply for another job" but whenever i get home i can't get anything done anymore. Then again, even at work i can't get anything done anymore. I'm working since a month on a project that would have taken me a week just a year or two ago.
So the question is: Stay in this job for the rest of my life or quit now and maybe end up unemployed for some time?
  
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I will first say that is a bold move claiming to rival R1CH with programming knowledge!
Second honestly when you get off work you should just force yourself to apply. No matter how tired or whatever excuse you come up with ignore it and just apply.
I personally wouldn't ever chance being unemployed if I can help it as to me that would be very, very stressful assuming you are living on your own and you would have to worry about bills and get a job fast or you won't be able to pay rent/etc.
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Be a contractor and free lance. Wtf why are you worrying about getting a job if you == R1CH?
Seriously though, YOU should never ever stay in one job for your whole life.
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Maybe take a break/some leave, and apply to some other jobs while you are on that break? If you really are that burnt out, you definitely should try to get well-rested before applying to other jobs. That's really a shame  keep us posted, would be a shame to feel your life sucked away at such a job.
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Drop it and use the "hang" time for relaxation and thoroughly search for a new job with way better conditions. Obviously you should always hunt for "joyness" in a job than rather a "quick" new job. Gor for it, take your time. You Sir really sound like somebody that is not happy with his current situation.
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during your spare time, force yourself to go out and socialize, see if that helps
it did for me
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On August 27 2012 16:27 blade55555 wrote:
I will first say that is a bold move claiming to rival R1CH with programming knowledge!
Second honestly when you get off work you should just force yourself to apply. No matter how tired or whatever excuse you come up with ignore it and just apply.
I personally wouldn't ever chance being unemployed if I can help it as to me that would be very, very stressful assuming you are living on your own and you would have to worry about bills and get a job fast or you won't be able to pay rent/etc.
That is an answer i expected. I tried to force myself to a lot of stuff but forcing yourself takes more energy than i have.
I hate unemployment, i've been unemployed for 1-6 month several times during my career (i'm 30 btw, so it's not like it's my first job), but at this point everything would be better than hoping every single day to get hit by a car on the way to work.
On August 27 2012 16:39 pluu.mooh wrote:
Drop it and use the "hang" time for relaxation and thoroughly search for a new job with way better conditions. Obviously you should always hunt for "joyness" in a job than rather a "quick" new job. Gor for it, take your time. You Sir really sound like somebody that is not happy with his current situation.
I faintly remember happyness but it's been a while.
I think i'll make an appointment with my boss later today and quit to get it over with. It can't get worse.
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Wow, hope you're prepared and/or are able to find a better job.
Best of luck man. Feeling like your soul has been crushed is not a great feeling to have at only 30. Whatever happens, I hope it turns out for the best >_<
Tauchsieder is that true?! O_O whoa
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You live in Germany, right? Go to a Psychologist, let him attest your burnout, show it to your employer and by regualtions he is forced to let you off work for at least 3 weeks, to go to a health resort. Payed!
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On August 27 2012 16:55 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:27 blade55555 wrote:
I will first say that is a bold move claiming to rival R1CH with programming knowledge!
Second honestly when you get off work you should just force yourself to apply. No matter how tired or whatever excuse you come up with ignore it and just apply.
I personally wouldn't ever chance being unemployed if I can help it as to me that would be very, very stressful assuming you are living on your own and you would have to worry about bills and get a job fast or you won't be able to pay rent/etc. That is an answer i expected. I tried to force myself to a lot of stuff but forcing yourself takes more energy than i have. I hate unemployment, i've been unemployed for 1-6 month several times during my career (i'm 30 btw, so it's not like it's my first job), but at this point everything would be better than hoping every single day to get hit by a car on the way to work. Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:39 pluu.mooh wrote:
Drop it and use the "hang" time for relaxation and thoroughly search for a new job with way better conditions. Obviously you should always hunt for "joyness" in a job than rather a "quick" new job. Gor for it, take your time. You Sir really sound like somebody that is not happy with his current situation. I faintly remember happyness but it's been a while. I think i'll make an appointment with my boss later today and quit to get it over with. It can't get worse.
Well I should have asked this. Let's say you quit your job would you have to move back somewhere? If not how long could you remain in your current place before you would go broke?
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if you have worked hard for 3 years and you have some money saved up, you totally deserve a break man! 
take a vacation? travel? (cheaply, imo) relax and play some sc2 man ahahah if you can afford to chill for a bit, you should!
On August 27 2012 16:57 Tauchsieder wrote:
You live in Germany, right? Go to a Psychologist, let him attest your burnout, show it to your employer and by regualtions he is forced to let you off work for at least 3 weeks, to go to a health resort. Payed!
O_O
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On August 27 2012 17:00 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:55 Morfildur wrote:On August 27 2012 16:27 blade55555 wrote:
I will first say that is a bold move claiming to rival R1CH with programming knowledge!
Second honestly when you get off work you should just force yourself to apply. No matter how tired or whatever excuse you come up with ignore it and just apply.
I personally wouldn't ever chance being unemployed if I can help it as to me that would be very, very stressful assuming you are living on your own and you would have to worry about bills and get a job fast or you won't be able to pay rent/etc. That is an answer i expected. I tried to force myself to a lot of stuff but forcing yourself takes more energy than i have. I hate unemployment, i've been unemployed for 1-6 month several times during my career (i'm 30 btw, so it's not like it's my first job), but at this point everything would be better than hoping every single day to get hit by a car on the way to work. On August 27 2012 16:39 pluu.mooh wrote:
Drop it and use the "hang" time for relaxation and thoroughly search for a new job with way better conditions. Obviously you should always hunt for "joyness" in a job than rather a "quick" new job. Gor for it, take your time. You Sir really sound like somebody that is not happy with his current situation. I faintly remember happyness but it's been a while. I think i'll make an appointment with my boss later today and quit to get it over with. It can't get worse. Well I should have asked this. Let's say you quit your job would you have to move back somewhere? If not how long could you remain in your current place before you would go broke?
I would get paid 3 month or so from the unemployment agency or however it translates to english. That is enough time to find a job. In that time i also would quit my flat and probably move back into one of the spare flats my parents own.
If i still don't have a job after that, the german social security can provide me for some time.
In germany, being unemployed/Losing your job is not as bad as in the US, though yes, we pay quite a big chunk of our wages for that safety.
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On August 27 2012 17:08 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 17:00 blade55555 wrote:On August 27 2012 16:55 Morfildur wrote:On August 27 2012 16:27 blade55555 wrote:
I will first say that is a bold move claiming to rival R1CH with programming knowledge!
Second honestly when you get off work you should just force yourself to apply. No matter how tired or whatever excuse you come up with ignore it and just apply.
I personally wouldn't ever chance being unemployed if I can help it as to me that would be very, very stressful assuming you are living on your own and you would have to worry about bills and get a job fast or you won't be able to pay rent/etc. That is an answer i expected. I tried to force myself to a lot of stuff but forcing yourself takes more energy than i have. I hate unemployment, i've been unemployed for 1-6 month several times during my career (i'm 30 btw, so it's not like it's my first job), but at this point everything would be better than hoping every single day to get hit by a car on the way to work. On August 27 2012 16:39 pluu.mooh wrote:
Drop it and use the "hang" time for relaxation and thoroughly search for a new job with way better conditions. Obviously you should always hunt for "joyness" in a job than rather a "quick" new job. Gor for it, take your time. You Sir really sound like somebody that is not happy with his current situation. I faintly remember happyness but it's been a while. I think i'll make an appointment with my boss later today and quit to get it over with. It can't get worse. Well I should have asked this. Let's say you quit your job would you have to move back somewhere? If not how long could you remain in your current place before you would go broke? I would get paid 3 month or so from the unemployment agency or however it translates to english. That is enough time to find a job. In that time i also would quit my flat and probably move back into one of the spare flats my parents own. If i still don't have a job after that, the german social security can provide me for some time. In germany, being unemployed/Losing your job is not as bad as in the US, though yes, we pay quite a big chunk of our wages for that safety.
Ah yeah I mean for me personally once I move out (not moved out yet finishing college) I would hate to move back to my parents house xD. I mean if that's fine with you and everything then I would say go for it.
I know my dad went through something similar to you before he found a kickass job where he doesn't have like any stress or anything anymore (IT field but not programming). He was getting burnt out as he had to work a ton + take care of me and my brother and was very stressed with paying bills, getting food, etc and he told me he was so close to being burnt out that he almost didn't care about anything anymore due to all the stress and what not.
Then he got a job interview, made 30k more then he did in the previous job and he's never been happier. He never quit his job but he would have if it wasn't for me and my bro.
Hopefully everything works out for you and if you end up quitting can find a job fast!
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On August 27 2012 16:57 Tauchsieder wrote:
You live in Germany, right? Go to a Psychologist, let him attest your burnout, show it to your employer and by regualtions he is forced to let you off work for at least 3 weeks, to go to a health resort. Payed!
^^ This
If you're seriously burnt out, then you should do something about it. If you have the skills, then get another job. Look for something that interests you, apply for an engineering position in a new city.
It seems you just want a change of pace, well why not have a change of scenery as well.
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Take a month off man... energy is very important in landing a new job, more so if you're 'young but willing to learn'. If you were given an intership right now at google ( Just an example) , you would risk getting kicked right away due to being burnt out. 'Sort out your mental state, then go full throtle! :D
glgl~
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Zurich15317 Posts
On August 27 2012 16:57 Tauchsieder wrote:
You live in Germany, right? Go to a Psychologist, let him attest your burnout, show it to your employer and by regualtions he is forced to let you off work for at least 3 weeks, to go to a health resort. Payed!
It's not as easy as you make it sound like. And from what I know about his employer, this seems like a very risky route to take. Morfildur could very well end up stuck in a law suit if his employer is a cunt about it - which is probably the last thing he wants right now.
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Sounds like you need a vacation from work. If you really hate your job then plan your exit out. Also try to be motivated to do things, start with small things and build from there.
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Instead of trying to change everything at once - job, stresslevel, housing arrangements, social life, body form etc. - why not change just one or two smaller things at the time?
So start by eating and sleeping properly. That should give you more energy. Then move on to training 2-3 times a week when you feel your eating and sleeping comes naturally. When training is "normal" to you and not a chore move on to solve the next problem and then the next. (This is just an example. You could start with your job and then move to something else)
I'm not in your situation but I feel overwhelmed by the task you have in front of you changing your entire life.
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I honestly get so discouraged by blogs like this...
I tell myself that my life will turn around once I get a decent job, but seeing blogs like this make me realize landing the job is only the first step...T_T
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On August 27 2012 17:50 Dirkzor wrote:
Instead of trying to change everything at once - job, stresslevel, housing arrangements, social life, body form etc. - why not change just one or two smaller things at the time?
So start by eating and sleeping properly. That should give you more energy. Then move on to training 2-3 times a week when you feel your eating and sleeping comes naturally. When training is "normal" to you and not a chore move on to solve the next problem and then the next. (This is just an example. You could start with your job and then move to something else)
I'm not in your situation but I feel overwhelmed by the task you have in front of you changing your entire life.
This
From the look of it the concept of overhauling your life and getting back on track and quitting your job and looking for a new one and deciding to move houses seems like a daunting task
so break it down
easiest shit to do would be getting the sleep you need and eating healthy like Dirkzor said this will result in more energy (in theory) this shouldn't be difficult to do barring loss of appertite (and from the gaining 40 pounds doesn't sound like you have) or extreme amounts of stress not allowing you to sleep.
Once you've got that shit down you can start working out again an extention of healthy eating that you conquered earlier you'll have lost weight and be in better shape to get back into working out, and as he said then you move on to the next small problem
if you can't seem to find the energy all I can really say is just fucking do it, call upon some unknown reserve that doesnt exist and just fucking do it, do it every time you need to until it doesn't become a burden
and also it sounds like you're not enjoying yourself much, sometimes just go do something you enjoy and fuck all the problems they'll still be there waiting for you after you've had some fun and feel better
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On August 27 2012 18:02 PH wrote:
I honestly get so discouraged by blogs like this...
I tell myself that my life will turn around once I get a decent job, but seeing blogs like this make me realize landing the job is only the first step...T_T
The most important part is having a good CV. If it sucks you only get sucky jobs. If it's good you get good jobs.
Mine sucked.
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I think you should try to find out what you really want and then take it up with your boss. If you're a german R1CH then I'm sure they're very happy to have you working for them and they don't want you to leave, try talking to them about how you're feeling burnt out and that you need something else from them. Maybe you want new challenges or maybe you want to go to seminars or maybe you want the coffee machine to work again, maybe they can help you. If the alternative is quitting then you might as well be sure that it couldn't be helped before you go ahead and quit.
Also maybe it isn't your job, maybe you're burnt out from something else and you're just blaming it on your job (because, duh, it's your job) in which case it would be really bad to quit.
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Well i suggest you something else. How about you work normally as you do, don't push yourself too much for it. And after you get from work try relaxing and working on your body. Maybe getting your body fit will give you more energy maybe that gloomy feeling will go away because sometimes if we are happy with our body, if we have physical strength we deal better with other problems. So maybe you should slowly start working on your body and after or in between start applying for new job
EDIT: someone already suggested this, adding sleeping and eating before all. I really think this is the best solution right now.
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Don't you have any vacation days left?
It should not be too hard finding a job in Germany in your area, right? And if you're willing to relocate to the Netherlands, the company I'm working for is hiring. 
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Why are you so stressed out at work? A good skill to have is actually appropriately pushing back and saying 'no'. It just sounds to me like you are doing too much.
I would probably just take it really easy for a while and see what happens. During this time, you can try to get your life back in order and possibly look for another job.
Talking to management about this might help as well, depending on the size of your company and its culture, obviously.
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I think the only reasonable course of action is a "program off" with R1CH to re-kindle your passion.
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
Should I quit my job?
after reading your op I would say yes. You only have one life and your current employer does not care about your health.
Therefore I would say at least try to look for something else while you work or quit. Since in germany you have a safety net.
What slave company are you working for?
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On August 27 2012 17:39 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:57 Tauchsieder wrote:
You live in Germany, right? Go to a Psychologist, let him attest your burnout, show it to your employer and by regualtions he is forced to let you off work for at least 3 weeks, to go to a health resort. Payed! It's not as easy as you make it sound like. And from what I know about his employer, this seems like a very risky route to take. Manilor could very well end up stuck in a law suit if his employer is a cunt about it - which is probably the last thing he wants right now.
Pray what? If half of which he tells is true he has every right to go see a doctor and get off work, that's not risky at all. He doesn't say he should fake symptoms, he says go and get treatment. The risky thing here would only be the loss of "prestige" or whatever you'd call coming from his boss if that person had such a backward attitude. If he works in such an environment, he should prolly quit.
I don't see how his employer could possibly take this to court (given that it's Germany), as this move would be highly risky. It could very well backfire to actually attack a psychologist's judgement. From my personal experience, this hurts whoever dares to threaten an approved psychologist, 'cause they get quite pissed when it comes to depression / burnout or related issues. If that happens you can get counter sued for slander and "being the bully" both from the victim AND the doctor.
If you mean that the employer could argue that such an illness would limit the OP's ability to work long term (as in he will be off work a lot more often / ~10+ weeks per year): this would also not work in this case, as it's the first time that the OP takes a time out so to speak.
Tauchsieder's suggestion sounds the most reasonable, along with a longer talk to his boss obviously. Just doing something without informing the higher up always never works out.
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I'm in the same situation. Been forawhile in this job (Programming), kinda need to find another job. But before jumping on next job I decided to do some stuff:
1. Get in shape. I started going to gym.
2. Increase my sleeping time, get organized
3. After I get inshape I need to buy new clothes (fashionable).
4. Make a worthy haircut.
5. Remain positive.
Afterall you need to do good impression in the interview. I'll try to shoot at better position and salary. I feel it will be easypizi, since I know my stuff well.
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On August 27 2012 19:18 caboose_ wrote:
I think the only reasonable course of action is a "program off" with R1CH to re-kindle your passion.
Well, the problem is that there is no measurable way to compare two programmers :p
On August 27 2012 18:44 prplhz wrote:
I think you should try to find out what you really want and then take it up with your boss. If you're a german R1CH then I'm sure they're very happy to have you working for them and they don't want you to leave
Most of the good programmers in this company already left and the company never did anything to stop them, they could always get someone cheaper to replace them. One of the better colleagues i had that actually worked on improving his skills just wanted 10% more money - still less than industry average, they refused, now he gets 100% more money in another company. They always got away with that, the projects kept running (mostly since i took over all his projects in addition to mine), and eventhough my colleagues say that everything will break down when i leave, i bet they will get away with that again.
Everyone only works here because it was the only job they could get and the good ones leave as soon as they find another job. A colleague who worked here for 3 month is already interviewing for other jobs. Most that don't leave keep saying "It would just be the same in another company, so why bother?".
I wanted to stay here for 3 years to improve my very messy CV, not expecting to get that burnt out.
Appointment with the boss is at 14:00 (in 1 hour, 20 minutes), let's see how that turns out.
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QUIT ASAP
i just quit mine
dont torture urself
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If you hate your job then quit... i dont know if you have people who are depending on you but if not I'd just quit now before its too late and your not only fat and burnt out, but fat burnt out and old.
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I used to be in your situation and it was horrible, a part of my soul was being mutilated every single day. What's different though is i had chosen something i did not enjoy, while you seem to like programming but dislike the current employer. That's a reason you're much better off than me.
To solve it, i went part time (that's 10 days/month) while starting uni at 24yrs old. I'm telling you this just to put things in perspective cause all you have to do is go part time while you get yourself in proper physical and mental state and look for a better job. Or even quit for good if you are 100% sure you can last at least half a year unemployed. But then again, not working at all is noxious aswell.
Continue this and you'll be suicidal in a couple of years.
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On August 27 2012 21:28 Atom Cannister wrote:
How'd the meeting go?
They were suprised but there wasn't anything they could do and they understood my reasoning, so either end of september or end of october i'm out of this job. Usually it would be end of september but they asked me if i could give them a few days to check if they can shuffle resources to fill my position or wether they need a month more to find a replacement.
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On August 27 2012 22:01 Morfildur wrote:They were suprised but there wasn't anything they could do and they understood my reasoning, so either end of september or end of october i'm out of this job. Usually it would be end of september but they asked me if i could give them a few days to check if they can shuffle resources to fill my position or wether they need a month more to find a replacement.
Ha, thats the sort of company that tries to fill 1 hole with 2 overworked employees. Good you are out of it, imho.
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United States32036 Posts
challenge r1ch for the throne son
but i would advise against qutting without something else lined up, as much as it may be appealing. if need be, take off a few days to get your head straight and get to work on your resume
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Create your own job and then quit!
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Why don't you do what you did in highschool? I bet you had times you severely disliked it, but you still went through with it and got grades etc. I bet you didn't fail out. therefore call upon what you did then, you can do it again.
Make small changes, first sleep habits, then diet, then gym, then job. You need to get shit done, thats an option not to.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On August 27 2012 22:01 Morfildur wrote:They were suprised but there wasn't anything they could do and they understood my reasoning, so either end of september or end of october i'm out of this job. Usually it would be end of september but they asked me if i could give them a few days to check if they can shuffle resources to fill my position or wether they need a month more to find a replacement.
hmm since you know your end result with the company, you should try and take it easy until you quit. Do your job obviously but don't overload yourself. Just work on getting better physically and mentally and search for a job in the meantime. Taking a couple of days off to rest is probably a good idea as well as well as exercising and eating healthy. The stress might be the major reason you gained weight. Good luck!
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On August 27 2012 19:42 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 19:18 caboose_ wrote:
I think the only reasonable course of action is a "program off" with R1CH to re-kindle your passion. Well, the problem is that there is no measurable way to compare two programmers :p
Speed programming. First to create a correct solution to a problem is victorious.
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On August 27 2012 16:25 Morfildur wrote:
First things first: I know it's bad to quit one job without having another one ready.
I worked here for exactly 3 years now and when i started, i had energy, an ok private life and i was physically quite fit, now i'm a human wreck, burnt out, phone contact list has only one entry ("work") and i gained 40 pounds, so it's unlikely that another company will hire me in my current state. I have programming knowledge that rivals R1CHs but i just don't have any energy left to offer.
However, i also know that nothing will change as long as i work here, so maybe after a month off from work it will be better. I told myself for the last year "ok, tomorrow i'll apply for another job" but whenever i get home i can't get anything done anymore. Then again, even at work i can't get anything done anymore. I'm working since a month on a project that would have taken me a week just a year or two ago.
So the question is: Stay in this job for the rest of my life or quit now and maybe end up unemployed for some time?
If you aren't happy then I would start looking for another job while you work there. Of course do it in your downtime.
On August 27 2012 18:15 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 18:02 PH wrote:
I honestly get so discouraged by blogs like this...
I tell myself that my life will turn around once I get a decent job, but seeing blogs like this make me realize landing the job is only the first step...T_T The most important part is having a good CV. If it sucks you only get sucky jobs. If it's good you get good jobs. Mine sucked.
Volunteering and having a good social network let alone good resume that really shows off your character will go along way.
Yes, landing that dream job is very difficult but there are steps you can take of getting there.
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I always felt better after starting to search for a new job. It might not seem possible at this moment, but when you start interviews and, overall, an active job searching process, it really makes you feel better .
Good luck!
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Just quit man, you'll be less wealthy, but infinitely more healthy.
If you work in a job X hours a week, that's X hours you won't be getting back.
You life in Germany, not in some underdeveloped country without a social system, so you won't starve. Maybe you have to move to a smaller appartement, but seriously, I'd rather fiddle around on my guitar all day in a small flat than do a job I despise for 30+ hours a week.
Quit, get your life in order, take your time, recharge, get back in shape and then try to find a job you enjoy more.
Or better yet, go back to school. If you haven't got your Abitur already, go a Weiterbildungskolleg. You'll have 20 hours of school a week, you'll be surrounded by adults eager to further their education, you will earn enough to pay for rent and food, you'll have all the time you need to get your life together.
Living is free, making a living should be secondary.
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I'd say to quit but I'm in a similar position to you where I'm doing a 1 year coop and I'm staying. GL. People motivated enough to learn about computers like yourself shouldn't have much problems finding people in need of your talents.
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On August 27 2012 23:22 caboose_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 19:42 Morfildur wrote:On August 27 2012 19:18 caboose_ wrote:
I think the only reasonable course of action is a "program off" with R1CH to re-kindle your passion. Well, the problem is that there is no measurable way to compare two programmers :p Speed programming. First to create a correct solution to a problem is victorious.
Knowledge.
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On August 28 2012 00:17 obesechicken13 wrote:
I'd say to quit but I'm in a similar position to you where I'm doing a 1 year coop and I'm staying. GL. People motivated enough to learn about computers like yourself shouldn't have much problems finding people in need of your talents.
Unless the work environment is incredibly toxic you get another job offer on the table and then give your boss notice.
Don't remove the safety nets yet.
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i would say to focus on getting your life back and not your job, start working out, you will lose weight and gain energy and the. go out and do stuff, make new friends
if you have the right mind set you can achieve anything, but idk if you feel confident at all
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On August 27 2012 16:25 Morfildur wrote:
First things first: I know it's bad to quit one job without having another one ready.
I worked here for exactly 3 years now and when i started, i had energy, an ok private life and i was physically quite fit, now i'm a human wreck, burnt out, phone contact list has only one entry ("work") and i gained 40 pounds, so it's unlikely that another company will hire me in my current state. I have programming knowledge that rivals R1CHs but i just don't have any energy left to offer.
However, i also know that nothing will change as long as i work here, so maybe after a month off from work it will be better. I told myself for the last year "ok, tomorrow i'll apply for another job" but whenever i get home i can't get anything done anymore. Then again, even at work i can't get anything done anymore. I'm working since a month on a project that would have taken me a week just a year or two ago.
So the question is: Stay in this job for the rest of my life or quit now and maybe end up unemployed for some time?
First of all, I'd like to say just right away that I won't be able (nor would I want) to give you a straightforward 0/1 answer. Secondly, please accept my expressions of solidarity. Despite my young age at the work market (29 but only really working full time since age 24), I've experienced some of that type of burnout (in a different profession, and I ended up changing job lines) and currently my step-father, also a very experienced programmer, is going through the same thing as you. In his case, it involves unemployment and he actually wasn't really given an option to avoid it. Stuff deteriorated to the point that he knew a year ahead of when it actually happened that they would eventually terminate him if he doesn't quit. (Office drama and office wars in the new job after being cut from the previous one due to a de facto hostile acquisition by a new owner.)
I would like to tell you that no job is worth losing your health, and your mental health too. A while of unemployment is a danger and evil which is unknown, which makes us want to stick with the known evils, but sometimes the unknown is actually better than the known. But you obviously can't dive head-on. So I'd suggest talking to job counsellors, career advisors, a psychologist who knows how such things work, perhaps a recruiter or HR person if you know one that doesn't work for your boss. Talk to a doctor about the impact of stress. Then make the decision. Perhaps talk to someone who knows about finance: you don't want to end up in a spot where you need to cut down on food (while cutting down on non-essentials isn't really as bad as having to deal with a hostile work environment). Whatever you do, make sure you are prepared, you know what you're doing, your decision is not rash and/or emotional but well thought-out and that you've given yourself some time to digest it. Don't do any rash things that you might later regret, such as burning bridges, but you may need to step out of your comfort zone.
Also: Look into the possibility of registering your own company. This is what saved the day for me. The beauty of having your own company is that you choose the jobs (you can't afford to be too picky and sometimes your hand is forced but not in the same way as when a boss has a contractual right, written on paper, to just pile unwanted jobs on you), you get all the exposure you want, you have your own website that emphasises your strengths and presents your bio and your achievements as opposed to the company's slogans, you don't have to share the profit, you may eventually create a couple of workplaces for the community (e.g. assistant, secretary, junior partner and so on). Just be aware that this may be stressful in different ways. Like for me every single day of operating a legal translation (and other translation) sole-proprietorship is less stressful than it was to work for a law firm as a rookie lawyer, but the single day of the month when I need to handle administrative stuff (invoices, taxes, debt monitoring/reminding/collection). But I guess there were higher peaks of stress than this in salaried work. Plus, with time, one can hire an assistant to handle all that (or even all paperwork). It can be tough sometimes if you need to deal with complaints from customers who are bigger than you but that too can be managed (especially by the lawyer for whom you did some programming a month ago and made him happy, just sayin' ).
Plus, in high-octane, highly-stressful job lines, some people sometimes (and probably most people, maybe even almost everybody) need to take a break. Like a month or two without work. Just tending to your garden. Talking to your wife. Fishing with your childhood buddy. Rediscovering life. Visiting your family. Whatever. The beauty of working as an independent contractor or owning a sole-proprietorship is that you can afford more such time and nobody is going to peek too much into how much free time precisely you take for yourself. Which in my case is a lot. (Like entire days during weektime.) Maybe this would work for you too.
Also, when you set out to get a new job, you absolutely need to read up on creating good CVs/resumes, motivational letters, self-presentations, handling recruitment talks, job interviews etc. Those things are a skill in themselves, I guess, and training is helpful, even passive exposure is helpful because it increases your confidence and decreases the stress you face in such situations. I'd take time to talk to business owners, hiring managers, HR people, job consultants/advisors/counsellors in your circle of friends if you can get them to have a beer and spill their guts for you. Be prepared. Then hit the market with a killer CV mounted on a killer website, preferably in some tech-savvy form showing off your skills. Gain confidence, get good tools, make the field more yours and less theirs. Maybe learn a thing or two about negotiation (especially the dirty tricks bad employers or recruiters use, signs of a bad company with a hostile work environment etc.) to help you avoid ending up in another bad environment any more.
And don't be ashamed to talk to an occupational psychologist/counsellor. Those people exist because they're needed, it's like going to a doctor. In some jobs you break limbs, in others the mental stress is exhausting just as much as a physical strain. Sports people (including e-sports players) have psychologists too. It's an aspect of keeping a good form for them.
GL HF!
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Guys, he already quit on page 2~
Hopefully having a big chunk of time where work would have been will be the perfect time to apply for jobs, work out, etc. Good luck to you!
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On August 28 2012 01:56 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
Guys, he already quit on page 2~
Darn, I'm sorry! I really should've read the other pages. Oh well, some of the stuff is still relevant.
On August 27 2012 23:22 caboose_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 19:42 Morfildur wrote:On August 27 2012 19:18 caboose_ wrote:
I think the only reasonable course of action is a "program off" with R1CH to re-kindle your passion. Well, the problem is that there is no measurable way to compare two programmers :p Speed programming. First to create a correct solution to a problem is victorious.
Back when I still programmed some (in my student days), I used to believe that the guy who needed less code to do the same task was the more skilled. 
***
As for CV, a good thing about any job is that it provides the years of experience that are the formal requirement for some other jobs. Like if you do just about anything for the initial n years, you become eligible for positions that require 2, 3 and more years of experience (then 5, 10 etc.).
And CVs can be helped a lot by good design and neat execution.
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urgh. Curse reading comprehension.
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I'm starting computer science today. Even after reading this thread I'm still very excite!
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Unless you have kids to feed and no savings, quit your job.
There is no reason to ever sacrifice your health and sanity for money. If you stop spending money on crap you don't need and cook basic healthy food for yourself and live in a cheap area your living costs shouldn't be too high and you can afford to get yourself back in shape! Also look at any reasons other than work that you're feeling this way.
Quit dat job yo
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Physical exercise! How do you expect to have energy without any proper exercise. Don't be lazy, if you want something then make it happen. You make it happen. Make it happen.
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Lot of responses, didn't read them.
I've been unemployed for quite a while, because I could.
It's a pain to find a new job. It. is. a. pain. to. find. a. new. job.
Actually fuck it, I can't speak for you, I can only speak for me. When I left my job, I thought I would have more time to look for a better one. I sure had more time, but I didn't look. I enjoyed myself and my computer. Then the cycle begins. Cut from the work market, I was less and less inclined to look for work, barely do anything but enjoy myself and my computer.
Long story short : beware of that trap. Having MONEY, is important, because life sucks really fast, and really hard when you suddenly come to lack some. As I understand you now hate your job. Still, be fucking cautious before you quit it. I would really recommend looking for a job before you do anything. That will increase your value on the work market, too. Being employed, I mean.
With that said, decision is your own obviously, but do take care, especially in these current times of "crisis". In my opinion, make the effort to look for a job while staying employed, you could "lift the foot" (french expression, hoping it makes sense) in your current job to keep some energy for your search.
Well, my 2 cents.
On August 28 2012 01:56 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
Guys, he already quit on page 2~
Hopefully having a big chunk of time where work would have been will be the perfect time to apply for jobs, work out, etc. Good luck to you!
Oh... well.
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From my understanding, there are a lot of jobs in Germany in your field.
Don't worry about finding something new, it'll happen.
I think you've definitely made the right decision.
Onwards and upwards, chin up and all that!
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To the people saying that you should never give up your health for your job, don't you already give up most of your free time just going to or getting ready for or being at work? There's quite a bit that you need to give up if you want to be recognized as a non failure by your parents, and your friends around you.
There are people who suffer emotional trauma from not being able to provide for their family, or their wife will leave them. These are a minority of cases though and isn't relevant to OP.
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Is programming a bad job?
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On August 28 2012 10:36 superbarnie wrote:
Is programming a bad job?
Not by any standards no. You sit in a well ventilated room protected by the sun. In smaller companies you are regarded as a technology god. You do not come home as physically exhausted as work in a factory as I've done this. You make great pay.
You can talk to your colleagues who sit near you. You can listen to music. You can browse that web forum you're addicted to.
Not only that but you're combatting logic problems all day long. Many people really enjoy this. You can see it on their faces or see it by what problem sets they choose to finish first/bring to lunch/sleep with them.
I think programming becomes less desirable due to the social factor of any office job. People start working on things that they don't want to. They meet people who they think are lazy. They don't get their things done on time. Arguments start.
Constantly learning. Constantly challenged. Contributing something to society.
On the subject of desiring happiness. I think that it's true most people obtain happiness from their hobbies, their work, their friends, and their families. I used to think that the most lucky could combine all three into one. Work on things that you do in your spare time so work and play are the same thing. Then Make friends with the people you work/play with.
I'm not so sure now. Many BW pros say the game gets less fun when they start playing it all day. There's a lot of compeition to get to be the best. Many people also say to keep work and play separate. Just a random musing.
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Should you quit your job?
I dunno...but I am in my early 30 and in a mid-level mangement position and I can advise you only from that POV.
However my experience tought me a couple of things: When you feel like shit at work you have to find out why you do so.
There are a couple of things that you have to find out: is it you that is whining around or is it clearly an external influence that makes you suffer. If it is you, well chances are big that you u and up in the same shit again. Be honest to yourself! Don't blame others (i.e your employer) for your situation!
If it is not you, but something external: Find out if it is your job OR your company! This is very important to know! If your manager is a prick, but the company is doing well and other people are happy...well then my friend it's time to increase pressure. Find peers, listen around, network talk to HR, demand a new position. Don't be shy in this games: Advertise your talents, show them that your a not only a slighty obese nerd in the dark corner..but a brilliant mind. Of course shaving, suitable clothing and a haircut helps. Go for the quick wins!!!! No stupid unrealitic goals like: yeah when I lost 25 pounds I will start with it. NO - start tomorrow - Hairdresser and shopping on Saturday.
Tell them that you are ready for the next challenge. BTW don't do these things behind the back of your priick boss...be open and tell him that you love the company, but you need a new challenge.
Well if it doens't work because they ignore you, or you decide that the whole company is not for you then I would say: Yes quit. Because once your savings are gone you will be forced to move your a.s.s.
You are right in one thing: If you are full of negative enrgy, it will be hard to find a job. However the longer you accumulate that enregy the worse it is gonna be. SO rather take the emergency exit! Use the spare time in a meaning full way. Do something that you love...a trip to the country of your dreams, doing sports, do an MBA whatever. But be aware that your next employer will ask what you did in that time!
When I hire people for my team, I have no problem in taking someone telling me that he was tired and needed a break. However be aware that telling your possible employer that u used that year to make into GM of SC2 will not impress them. A trip around the world will impress them...clichees I know, but that's how it works :-)..lol it would impress them if you tell them that you organized an international SC2 tournament with a prize pool of 60.000 Euro sponsored by a local ISP.
Good luck!
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EPT
