EPTAll this is just making me notice that for all of the Squeenix's propensity to run around putting women in skimpy outfits, they do occasionally write some good characters. >_>
Women in Anime/Manga - Page 2
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babylon
8765 Posts
All this is just making me notice that for all of the Squeenix's propensity to run around putting women in skimpy outfits, they do occasionally write some good characters. >_> | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
All the character kinda seemed to just shrug and consider that a valid reason. Anime isn't overtly sexist, but the most popular manga is shounen, and it gets written for young males. It is, at least to some degree, fantasy-stuff. It seeks to get people to live the adventure through the main character, which is of course easier if the character is the same sex. There are plenty of good and strong female leads, like Ripley, but female characters are just more difficult to write. The problem comes from society to a large degree. People often consider assertive women to be "bitchy," whereas an assertive male is and alpha-dog. Poor writers often create these characters that are male in all ways, except for what is between their legs, which isn't much better than the submissive female character. So yeah, it can be done, but it is more difficult and in some industries with a very specific demographic, it isn't profitable either. | ||
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Nazza
Australia1654 Posts
Better stop there before I read too many spoilers.... man gotta finish F/Z sometime... | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
Some times we read too much and I like to see it fate stay night as a anime which holds a lot of those traditional values etc honour,love,knight in shining armour and the list goes on. | ||
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SarR
476 Posts
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9175 Posts
On August 21 2012 13:27 Sickkiee wrote: Who's to say that's a bad thing? I actually prefer the girls in Japan more than Australian not because of their looks but because of their personalities. They aren't up themselves or feminist or think that everything deserves to be given to them on a silver plate. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just making an observation. Personally I find Korean girls are often more feminine and attractive than their aussie counterparts | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
there are ofcourse exceptions(like Buffy the Vampire Slayer) but look at other shows which have fantasy based stuff, ill just take vampires in this case, be it True Blood, The Vampire Diaries or hell even Twilight, Males protecting females. its definitely not exlusive to Manga and Anime and not even limited to shows or concept written for the young male demographic(Twilight and TVD are for females aswell). | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23358 Posts
A movie to pass this test must have: 1. It has to have at least two [named] women in it 2. Who talk to each other 3. About something besides a man Three very simple criteria which are very rarely met by most highly rated movies, and even some cases when they do it's pretty plausbiel (star trek passes it but the conversation takes place in their underwear while kirk is under the bed). The majority that do past the test generally seem to have relatively very brief and non important conversations. It's not just anime/manga. | ||
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Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
On August 21 2012 20:43 SarR wrote: 'Sexist' is a word people invented to demonize any revelation of the true evil....feminism. Wanting a better quality of life for women is not a bad idea but feminism takes it wayy too far. It it a truly destructive ideoligy. i think you are mistaken and just follow the stereotype. A feminist seeks (at least in switzerland don't know in other countries) equality (sure there are some crazy people and if conservatives talk about feminist, they always just look at them). It just has an unfortunate name that came up because man had/have more rights than women, so they called the movement "feminism". A real feminist women don't want men always to pay the bill, being called a lady or to be treated like a princess. Infact, they don't like "gentlemen" as it portrays the women as the weaker and "not able to do anything" gender. If you meet a women claiming to be a feminist but wants to keep the advantages of the "socially normal woman" than she isn't a real feminist. As for the anime, i know exactly what you mean. I have given up some shows just because of that. It's a mix between really poor writing, using overused cliches and the culture in japan. I now just watch those animes, where such things don't get addressed. Or just watch Black Lagoon, which i really really like in this aspect  | ||
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Kyrillion
Russian Federation748 Posts
Three very simple criteria which are very rarely met by most highly rated movies, and even some cases when they do it's pretty plausbiel (star trek passes it but the conversation takes place in their underwear while kirk is under the bed). The majority that do past the test generally seem to have relatively very brief and non important conversations. It's not just anime/manga. You mean the sole conversation between two women to be found in a series that must span hundreds of episodes (I reckon) happens in a fanservice scene ? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23358 Posts
On August 21 2012 21:59 Kyrillion wrote: You mean the sole conversation between two women to be found in a series that must span hundreds of episodes (I reckon) happens in a fanservice scene ? Star trek the recent movie, not the series.. It's a movie criteria, but you could extend it to series, I suppose. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
And then the producers went "Oh shit, this is actually a somewhat of a strong plot!" They didn't want to waste the animations on a hentai so they went less R. | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On August 21 2012 20:43 SarR wrote: 'Sexist' is a word people invented to demonize any revelation of the true evil....feminism. Wanting a better quality of life for women is not a bad idea but feminism takes it wayy too far. It it a truly destructive ideoligy. And this is why a lot of people are afraid to "admit" that they are feminists these days. It's because people have started throwing it around like an insult and have forgotten that all feminism is is movement towards gender equality, which everyone should in their right minds support. There is absolutely nothing destructive about that. The guy on the previous page equating feminism with uppity women and women who want to everything handed to them on a silver platter is another good example of someone who has no idea what he's talking about. On August 21 2012 17:06 zalz wrote: Poor writers often create these characters that are male in all ways, except for what is between their legs, which isn't much better than the submissive female character. There's a very difficult line to walk here. On the one hand, I think the best way to write female characters is to ... well, write them as people first and women second. (You know, just like how male characters are written.) I find that if you go the other way, sometimes there is too much emphasis on "LOOK LOOK LOOK I'M A WOMAN," which can be just as irritating. On the other hand, of course, you run up against the issue where a character's sex will obviously affect how people interact with her and thus shape how she is characterized. | ||
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WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
On August 21 2012 14:44 babylon wrote: ^ It's definitely a lot more complicated than "men protect women, therefore implying all women are weak." Take a look at FF7; Aeris is pretty damn girly, needs to be protected by Cloud because she's a flower girl and can't defend herself, and yet manages to come off as a strong woman. I mean, in a lot of ways, she is stronger than Cloud and stronger than even her more martial counterpart Tifa, even if she can't do anything but doink people on the head with a staff for 11 damage. But mentally and personality-wise? She's come through so much adversity and toil whole and downright cheerful, with a ton of spirit, good-will, and idealism intact, willing to sacrifice herself for a cause she believes in. On the flip-side of that coin, Cloud is fucking shadow of a man and becomes even more of one as the game progresses (and then after the game too ...) All this is just making me notice that for all of the Squeenix's propensity to run around putting women in skimpy outfits, they do occasionally write some good characters. >_> True, you really need to look at more factors then just the "Male protecting women part". I haven't played FF7, but I understand what you're trying to say. There is fan service in Higurashi as well, but then it's (mostly) done in a humoristic context that fits the story and isn't there just because. In Robin Hobb's Dragon Keeper, the reason why the male captain Leftrin protects Alise is because Alise has very little experience of being on a ship, not that Hobb wanna downgrade women on ships in general. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23358 Posts
Thinking about it now the way Aerith is sort of a compelling leader but in no way a "bitch" or "ball-buster" (it makes me feel uncomfortable thinking about using those words to describe her LOL) was done really, really well actually. Cloud feels like the more rigid one but they are both equally unbending. | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
Guy Gavriel Kay is another fantasy writer (though male) who writes interesting female characters. He's primarily historical fantasy, so his societies are generally male-dominated, but at the same time, his women often manage to attain power/purpose through the avenues that are open to them. Still, his attitude's hard to read in the books sometimes; on one hand, some of the ways he treats women is infuriating (like in Hobb's situation, I cannot discern if this is because of his setting or because of his actual attitude), but on the other, the way he writes women within his societies is very compelling and well-done. Then you have A Song for Arbonne, which is kind of a clusterfuck I can't figure out at all. :/ I wish Aeris got more screentime before she kicked the bucket. Though I agree that they're both unyielding, Cloud strikes me as far more brittle of a character -- one good blow, and he's done for -- while Aeris is resilient. For instance, it's not like she moped around after Zack never came back. Meanwhile, Cloud just goes nuts, cries and angsts for ages, then angsts some more even after the game ends. =_= | ||
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WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
On August 22 2012 09:49 babylon wrote: I've heard some conflicting reports of homophobia in her novels though, or at least a tendency towards homophobic characters and a negative portrayal of homosexuality (though whether because of her own opinions or because of the world she created, I can't say) - Spoiler on Dragon Keeper and Dragon Haven. IMO, It's more like + Show Spoiler + This is a big spoiler on both the books + Show Spoiler + In the society in which the books take place, homosexuality is taboo. One example of this is Alise's husband Hest and their friend male Sedric is in love with each other and when Alise discovers that and the fact that Hest doesn't really love her, it's more like she feels very disappointed over that she was cheated on. Then Alise made a comment something like "Hest couldn't marry that person he loves the most" (I don't remember exactly how it was) | ||
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