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On August 03 2012 00:14 sAsImre wrote:and denying consumer's right in its ToS...
You think the same shit isn't in the ToS for WoW/Diablo3/SC2? Hahahahahahahaha
I wonder how many other people read about the addition to the Steam ToS and didn't realize it's already in the majority of big publisher agreements.
http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/sc2eula.html
You and Blizzard agree that any arbitration shall be limited to the Dispute between Blizzard and you individually. To the full extent permitted by law, (1) no arbitration shall be joined with any other; (2) there is no right or authority for any Dispute to be arbitrated on a class-action basis or to utilize class action procedures; and (3) there is no right or authority for any Dispute to be brought in a purported representative capacity on behalf of the general public or any other persons.
There's way too many Blizzard apologists in this thread, the patch roll-out was awful and it's absolutely laughable to blame the community for not spending enough time on the test server.
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Have some empathy though man. You think there's someone sitting in Blizzard's office going 'How can I fuck over those Teamliquid nerds with my 1.5 patch?'
I don't mean to single you out, but I'm just incredibly frustrated by the whole uprising of 'public opinion' on the video games industry. The industry is dying as we know it (see stock prices, see large publishers dying, see lack of new IP or any attempts to create new genre). Our entire culture is warped now into believing that we have to respond to these trolls (see Mass Effect 3).
If you haven't noticed it is turning gaming into a micro-transaction driven industry where there isn't any risk because all the consumers are responsible for the content they choose to purchase. No one is going to splurge 150 million into a single player game with a 50 hour story or a huge expansive universe or anything else we used to see 5-10 years ago because *gasp* someone might not like it. Instead we'll get free to play worlds where you pay $2.99 to reload your ammo, $4.99 to play the next level, etc.
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On August 03 2012 12:03 Fzero wrote:
Yeah, except the people in my business (software development) don't listen to shit like this because you have no idea what it takes to make these patches happen. You have no idea what it takes to test video games, you have no idea what it takes to edit code that has been worked on by hundreds of different people. You don't know that when your tester finds a bug it doesn't mean it gets fixed. You don't know that when your lead designer decides it isn't worth your time to fix something, it doesn't make the cut for the patch. You don't realize that your biggest complaints have no weight with the people who make decisions because they don't have the same goals as you.
If you want to make a difference you need to make an argument that has value to the organization because you're appealing to their goals as a company, their department, their personal interests. If you're doing anything else, you're speaking nonsense to a group of eager participants.
All I'm saying is that you guys are out to get the big bad blizzard when the people writing the code to fix the issues that you're complaining about probably did nothing wrong. The testers who let the bug slip through probably caught it a day too late to make the cut. The producer probably had to decide that the one fix you most cared about needed 3 more days to fine tune.
Shit goes wrong guys, we just don't need the endless 'blog' posts about KESPA and how they failed in Korea and all this other stuff that has nothing to do with anything anytime someone breaks a line of code. It's filth and you know it.
Its a healthy dosage of reality and you are choosing to mask the circumstance with happy thought filled with rainbow bullshits. It is always better to face the facts and learn from the mistakes. And the facts reminds that Blizzards have royally screwed up big time on 2 of their biggest titles. And not only did they screw up but they did in S.Korea for SC2, the mother land of Progaming.
A friend of mine use to joke about how funny would it be if Blizzard suddenly went bankrupt because WoW got hacked and the server kept crashing, I refuted back with "Well they can just release SC2, the Koreans would immediately drop everything and buy like 20 millions copies." We all had our laughs there. But truthfully speaking, the game is buried under MOBAs, CS clones, and endless of social MMOs.
Maybe, just maybe we need to take a step back and observe through a different scope at the factual occurences. The company that we once loved and cherished have turned its back on us.
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On August 03 2012 01:20 IntoTheWow wrote:
Do you know how many good indie games you can buy with 60us$?
Could you please tell me where I can find places to buy those games? :D
So IF SC2 fails, how difficult would it be to successfully "revert" (I mean full BW, not hybrid PL stuff) back to SC:BW?
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I promise you they don't think they have failed big time on 2 of their biggest titles.
Best selling PC games of all time
I'm not coating anything in rainbow bullshit. The complaints in this thread don't even get close to making an argument that would affect any change at any level of Blizzard's company. I agree with you that it sucks that content got released in this state. I *really* disagree with the way that you're choosing to try to fix the problem. That's what this thread is right? You're not just venting? You guys are trying to express your displeasure in an attempt to alert someone and to get other people to agree with you.
I'm making an effort to share with you some personal experience that might help you get something accomplished. I don't know why, maybe it's something I ate this afternoon. I really never make posts like this because they are futile.
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My friend was complaining about this patch the other day. Not surprised but since everyone's already bought the game, I guess they don't care.
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But Fzero, don't you see? Diablo 3 is one of the worst games ever and we should all band together to address this injustice. /s
In my opinion this complete hysteria because there are a few minor bugs in the game for two days until Blizzard hotfixes them is so ridiculous, the fact people call it endemic to Blizzard's decline etc. is so dumb. That's how software development works, you fix bugs and then you release something and bugs reappear to your horror. The same thing happened with every WoW patch in history. I know there was a WC3 patch once that made a unit have double splash damage and it took two weeks until someone noticed why this unit was suddenly so popular, but of course by that time the damage was done.
Diablo 3 is a great game, it's very successful and had good reviews, the fact that Blizzard fans take it for granted that it's garbage is an example of a completely warped mentality where you've lost sight of reality. Yeah, it's not fun that modern game developers have us jump through hoops just to ensure no piracy and the like, but those are industry wide business 'advances', it's not just Blizzard that does these things.
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Diablo 3 is not a great game if you understand what it tries to be. Just because you're easy to please doesn't mean that everyone should be.
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16971 Posts
To be fair, Blizzard has had disastrous patches even in the days of BW. I think it was 1.10 that made it so every previous replay that featured a Zerg player wouldn't work. There was a huge outcry at the time, but I think it was eventually fixed. I'm not remembering the details too well...it was probably eight years ago or something.
These types of things happen in software development, though the magnitude of this patch's shortcomings seems a bit extreme. In any case, just give it some time and it should clear up.
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Got tested by Jay Wii and the skeleton crew who did those airtight D3 tests
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Sadly Blizzard really has bigger fish to fry considering the new WoW expansion is coming out quite soon. It's a pretty big undertaking considering the amount of players, possible network issues, amount of money to be lost and made etc. If a casual player who plays maybe 5 hours a week is unhappy they might cancel their sub, convince others to do the same and move on to a different (probably free) game. No one really cares if a few SC2 players are less than satisfied because we will still watch/play, grumble under our breaths and still buy HotS. I think if they had simply delayed the patch until more proper resources could be given to it, no one would have really faulted them.
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Defending Blizzard here is pretty pointless. Of course you cannot be 100% sure if your patch is bug-free or no, but with the new BlizzLauncher and without LAN, there is no way around this patch. You are forced to use it, and it fucks your game over, especially custom games, which every tournament relies on (not only ASUS ROG, but also the playhems, z33ks and g04sc2s).
Some people even say "you guys are not really appreciative of the work that Blizzard put in, constantly patching, etc. etc." but really, would anyone have bought this game if they had no intention to patch it in the first place?
I would be fine with the possibility to revoke this patch and play on the previous one again. They owe this at least to the tournament organizers who put a lot of work in it.
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On August 02 2012 16:50 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 16:28 endy wrote:
I guess that you're still going to buy HotS, so they probably don't care. Not me. I didn't get D3, and I won't get HotS. I won't keep giving money to devs that don't deserve it.
I am a huge zerg fan and always have been a big fanboy of blizz and i was thinking i would get HotS. My mind changed until i bought D3. Nope, not going to give a flying fck to HotS. Blizzard needs a wake up call and that can only be done by us consumers.
That said, haven't logged in to sc2 for more than 6months now :S
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On August 03 2012 20:59 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 16:50 Telcontar wrote:On August 02 2012 16:28 endy wrote:
I guess that you're still going to buy HotS, so they probably don't care. Not me. I didn't get D3, and I won't get HotS. I won't keep giving money to devs that don't deserve it. I am a huge zerg fan and always have been a big fanboy of blizz and i was thinking i would get HotS. My mind changed until i bought D3. Nope, not going to give a flying fck to HotS. Blizzard needs a wake up call and that can only be done by us consumers. That said, haven't logged in to sc2 for more than 6months now :S
I think you are still gonna get it. I just have this damn feeling.
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On August 03 2012 12:16 Fzero wrote:
Have some empathy though man. You think there's someone sitting in Blizzard's office going 'How can I fuck over those Teamliquid nerds with my 1.5 patch?'
Willful negligence is generally considered malicious.
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I think it was 1.10 that made it so every previous replay that featured a Zerg player wouldn't work. There was a huge outcry at the time, but I think it was eventually fixed.
What.... No that's not fair. All patches break replays recorded in old patches because of the way replays work. When Blizzard introduced the replay feature (whether they actually invented the concept themselves or not) it was ingenious. A file that would allow you to watch replays in full resolution in a filesize so small even 56k users were not left out. You can amass thousands of replays and still take up hardly any space on the computer. In exchange for this, since they way they work is recording only the actions players made, the game engine has to be the same. Since patching to old versions was not a very complicated process it didn't really matter. Ya, there were weird things like 1.11 patches could play 1.9 patches almost all the time, but if there was a balance change or a unit ai change or something like that, this is just the way the replay function works while letting people have crappy computers that don't need every patch of SC installed to run. They might have added a repatch feature later, but by then like people say, hardly anyone was available to work on SC.
The biggest catastophe I remember is when there was a bug that made it so that if a drone was damaged and built something and then cancelled, it would crash the game if it were killed later. Which is huge and PGT immediately fixed / stayed on the patch before themselves, but overall I had a fairly good experience with Blizzard patches over the years and 1.12 was one of the best. I think there is also way more leaniance to a company that's smaller and also willing to let their users host their own servers and develop their own fixes. You can say 'oh well they're trying that's cute' and a few programmers will be annoyed trying to fix Blizzard's errors again, but it's not like the proscene is devastated everytime Blizzard fucks up, or people suddenly can't get a good game of SC. In SCII that is the way it is ~
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On August 03 2012 07:11 Chef wrote:I think sabatoging and then strong arming an entire functioning industry to adopt a much weaker and failing (in Korea TV) product, putting countless jobs of those working in that industry in jeopardy (from the basic functioning of the system to the players who may not transition well to the change) all for the sake of a few extra dollars now is pretty unethical. I really don't get why people think they can just say 'business' like it makes everything okay. For every business there are people running that business, and there's no reason you can't be critical of their actions. There's no reason you shouldn't talk about it so that other people also know and will be less likely to purchase those products supporting cruel business practices. There's no reason a business can't sacrifice some monetary value for the sake of acting like responsible human beings with hearts and values. It's not like the business is being run by the Capitalismtron 5000. There's a human being making these decisions at the end of the day. We are allowed to judge him or her on a moral level. Show nested quote +Blizzard are not looking over their shoulder thinking "Oh man we have X RTS to beat, they are offering feature A B C, that we don't have, we gotta step our game up!". Except they were. Only it was their own game that they couldn't make as much money off of anymore. They couldn't have their new game living in its shadow, so they destroyed it. If it were another company's game and they somehow had the ability to destroy it still, they would do exactly the same. It is destructive rather than constructive business practice. You seek not to build something more amazing and more functional, but only to eliminate the competition. They took the people who built ESPORTS and their game from the ground up into something legitimate and basically said "LOL fuck you dopes, thanks," sued them, cannibalised what they worked on, and made a massive mess of everything. Some people justify this saying it's business, but those people are idiots. When you owe someone a decade of hard work and you return the favour by bossing them around and fucking up their lives, you're an awful person. A business is a collection of people making decisions, none of them feeling totally responsible because hey, a tonne of other people were involved too. But that doesn't make what these people do not awful.
If those CEOs with huge amount of $$$ in their bank accounts actually think like a human with moral, this shitty economy downtime wouldn't happen in the first place, money blinded them and made them into monster.
And ye we have been abused as free beta tester/QA since WoL and facepalm in the case of D3.
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16971 Posts
On August 03 2012 23:24 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +I think it was 1.10 that made it so every previous replay that featured a Zerg player wouldn't work. There was a huge outcry at the time, but I think it was eventually fixed. What.... No that's not fair. All patches break replays recorded in old patches because of the way replays work. When Blizzard introduced the replay feature (whether they actually invented the concept themselves or not) it was ingenious. A file that would allow you to watch replays in full resolution in a filesize so small even 56k users were not left out. You can amass thousands of replays and still take up hardly any space on the computer. In exchange for this, since they way they work is recording only the actions players made, the game engine has to be the same. Since patching to old versions was not a very complicated process it didn't really matter. Ya, there were weird things like 1.11 patches could play 1.9 patches almost all the time, but if there was a balance change or a unit ai change or something like that, this is just the way the replay function works while letting people have crappy computers that don't need every patch of SC installed to run. They might have added a repatch feature later, but by then like people say, hardly anyone was available to work on SC. The biggest catastophe I remember is when there was a bug that made it so that if a drone was damaged and built something and then cancelled, it would crash the game if it were killed later. Which is huge and PGT immediately fixed / stayed on the patch before themselves, but overall I had a fairly good experience with Blizzard patches over the years and 1.12 was one of the best. I think there is also way more leaniance to a company that's smaller and also willing to let their users host their own servers and develop their own fixes. You can say 'oh well they're trying that's cute' and a few programmers will be annoyed trying to fix Blizzard's errors again, but it's not like the proscene is devastated everytime Blizzard fucks up, or people suddenly can't get a good game of SC. In SCII that is the way it is ~
There was also one that would crash the game if you tried to repair something being loaded into a dropship, I think.
</nostalgia>
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I don't know what to say or expect on behalf of the programming team who made this patch 1.5.This is a total C++ kind of program.It is a total mess to entire SC2 players either pro or not.This is not acceptable in our reason or any of our mild speculation.Blizzard should be responsible for this mess and maybe face a court trial.
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Ever since Activision bought Blizzard the company as a whole has been going downhill. Diablo 3 has been fairly disastrous concerning the game design and now SC2 with this new patch.
It's all about the $$$ now with Activision. You can kiss the good quality games Blizzard has made goodbye.
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EPT
