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OK, so here's something that came to mind.
When browsing through the SC2 Strategy Guides I have a couple of habits. Looking for spelling and grammar mistakes (Which is really hypocritical of me, but never mind :D), trying to figure out counters or improvements to the guide, and looking at the sort of advice that some of the community give.
Now I will adhere to say that the Starcraft 2 community is actually really cool. There are a lot of really smart and talented people here and more often than not they are displayed on such mentioned posts, helping out complete strangers as much as possible.
The point to this is that although the people are doing the best they can, I feel it isn't really enough in a lot of cases. When people ask for help, they need a logical, well explained solution bought to them by someone they trust, and I feel that this is where the Pro Players are missing from the equation.
To use an example, take  EG.HuK. By doing a really quick search of his name, in the first 78 threads that came up there wasn't a single one in strategy. Not one. Huks PvP was once one of the best in the world, and he hasn't helped anyone?
It would seriosly take 3-5 minutes to write a response, and that person would probably worship the text that appears on their screen, because it was written by someone who they can trust not to bullshit.
My pledge to the Professional Starcraft scene is this. Help some of us out. For 3 minutes of your valuable time, you can really make a difference to some of the poor souls who can't deal with the range 5 Queens.
Thanks for reading.
EDIT: Can a mod change the title to 'An Opinion on Pro Players Usefulness'? Would be much appreciated <3
 
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I kinda agree with what you're saying: it would be nice if they did do so.
But there are two things that came up to me while reading this. This is strictly my humble opinion 
Firstly, progamers generally give out their time and knowledge through coaching, because I believe they prefer to gain money by giving their valuable insight.
Secondly, I don't think that the skill gap is THAT huge between pros and a decent number of members of the SC2 community. If you have watched streams of progamers like Kas, Dimaga, Whitera, Polt... etc, I think it's fair to say that they don't win every single game they play on ladder: they are not gods and I think their answers to, for example, dealing with rage 5 Queens, would only be very slightly more helpful than some GMs that already are giving their thoughts in forums.
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Zurich15355 Posts
Well considering HuK's spelling and grammar is beyond atrocious. Are you sure you want him to post more?
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"mk 4 gateways ^_^;;;;;;;;;;;;;; thn u mke stalkrs and zealots~~~~~~ and mcr0 try not to loss units T_T;;;;;"
-Huk
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A ton of pros have commented on what a shithole the strategy forum is on TL. It's extremely useful for people below master and probably also people in master, but for pro players, it's filled with a ton of people who have no idea what they are talking about and builds the pros have tried and discarded ages ago. I think it was Idra who commented that there's no point to share knowledge in the strategy forum if you're immediately flamed by 10 people who are probably bronze league.
That said, there are some pros who post from time to time. Darkforce has been posting quite a bit in TangSCs topics for example.
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Sorry, but I completely disagree. The advice being given is very solid and straight forward, the problem is that people don't so enough on their own. Being told a specific build will only get you so far before you have to think on your own.
The skill gap between pro players and regular players isn't as massive as you think it is. There are a lot of semi-pro players who play a lot but are just not found and could become immensely better from having the time to invest like a pro.
It would be better if people took more active parts in conversations about the game or started asking more open ended questions. Too many people ask things like "how counter 4gate?" and expect people to take them serious, people will only put as much time into a response as you put into the question.
If you want people to get better encourage more people to just talk about the game in a casual manner or to do their own replay analysis and take an active part in discussing the analysis with other people.
I also think your OP is pretty offensive, it's weird hearing that everyone giving advice is untrustworthy/bullshit.
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Certain pros post(ed) there, mostly the ones that did before they were pros.
Certain pros never did, mostly the ones that also didn't before they were pros.
Certain pros don't anymore, because clueless guys tried to argue with them whitoeut being in the position to argue.
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Misleading title.
I thought this was going to be about how big the playing gap is between Pros and your average joes.
But anyway, I think it would be great if more pros commented on topics about there strats. I find it hard most the time to find anything good online. Like good BO I can copy ect.
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On July 17 2012 21:59 zatic wrote:
Well considering HuK's spelling and grammar is beyond atrocious. Are you sure you want him to post more?
Bahahaha true, he was just the first pro player to come to mind.
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On July 17 2012 22:30 Sc2Corpse wrote:
Misleading title.
I thought this was going to be about how big the playing gap is between Pros and your average joes.
But anyway, I think it would be great if more pros commented on topics about there strats. I find it hard most the time to find anything good online. Like good BO I can copy ect.
Yeah sorry about the title, I went off on a bit of a tangent :/
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On July 17 2012 22:17 Anacletus wrote:
I [also] think your OP is pretty offensive, it's weird hearing that everyone giving advice is untrustworthy/bullshit.
I'm sorry if I offended you, I was trying to expand on how many people use these forums to troll and such. There are a great many people who post great advice, but personally I'd like to see advice from more credible sources.
Thanks for the feedback :D
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This makes no sense, why should progamers spend anytime for free to help others improve? If they want to great, if not they have 0 responsibility to ever open the SC2 Strategy forum.
It might be a good move for the progamer though since in SC2 current's atmosphere having a fan base helps, and reaching out to players could be a good avenue for building popularity I suppose.
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On July 17 2012 22:01 Megaliskuu wrote:
"I"M SOOOO TIREDDD T_T;;;;;;**~~~~~ <333333"
-Huk
FTFY
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On July 17 2012 21:59 zatic wrote:
Well considering HuK's spelling and grammar is beyond atrocious. Are you sure you want him to post more?
LOL this indeed.
Also OP professionals will never really post here just because how the community reacts, just a bunch of people who will quote them and half of them will be calling them idiots or do anything they can to insult them because they feel like it. That is why none of them really post in the strategy section let alone anywhere else on TL most of the time.
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Pro players don't want to make statements that are easily debunked by a constantly evolving meta-game. Even if you are a pro it doesn't mean you always have accurate insight into the obscure and often stupid topics that come up in forums, you don't really want to tarnish your image arguing with anti-fans. For example, imagine how much debate a post made by incontrol could generate, eventually degenerating into player-bashing and so forth.
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They offer coaching
even Idra
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Just look at some of Belial's posts to see how a semi high level player feels when trying to explain strategy/macro to a low league player. Now imagine a pro trying. It's like talking to a brick wall that has gained some sort of fake intellectual superiority.
I guess the brick wall analogy doesn't really apply, but still.
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On May 28 2012 04:15 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 03:48 Lore-Fighting wrote:On May 27 2012 12:55 Liquid`Ret wrote:On May 27 2012 12:54 TheSwamp wrote:On May 27 2012 12:54 Liquid`Ret wrote:
im so fucking sad that i lose to this shit every single tournamment it doesnt matter if i macro inject and overlord perfectly i just get raped by ff's no chance... and if you open anything other than 3 base they can just play something else so gg We still love you Ret! i dont care if you love me honestly (I do care, but you get what I mean) I want to win games and in practice i beat everybody the last 4 days then tournament day comes boom the grubby build that im 0-8 vs no matter what i do ROFL Your frustrations would be better spent on practice instead of QQ on the forums. I'm not saying this to be mean, but there are plenty of ways to deal with that build, and there is no excuse to be losing that much to it. Get someone to help you out, there are plenty of protosses out there that would help you with that, maybe some on your own team. You are one of the top players in the world and in my opnion, a top 3 zerg with a LOT of succes vs. protoss. It's okay to lose to players who are at the top of their game and their races, just hang in there and work it out. ya the few minutes its taking him to write out posts venting frustration while still at the tournament are severely damaging his practice regime. shut the fuck up. you're the reason pros dont post on here anymore.
...yea Ret's post wasn't in the strategy forum, but pros still get shit no matter where they post.
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I remember IdrA use to give tips on the TL forum back in the BW days... not so sure about now.
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On July 19 2012 11:42 Whole wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 04:15 IdrA wrote:On May 28 2012 03:48 Lore-Fighting wrote:On May 27 2012 12:55 Liquid`Ret wrote:On May 27 2012 12:54 TheSwamp wrote:On May 27 2012 12:54 Liquid`Ret wrote:
im so fucking sad that i lose to this shit every single tournamment it doesnt matter if i macro inject and overlord perfectly i just get raped by ff's no chance... and if you open anything other than 3 base they can just play something else so gg We still love you Ret! i dont care if you love me honestly (I do care, but you get what I mean) I want to win games and in practice i beat everybody the last 4 days then tournament day comes boom the grubby build that im 0-8 vs no matter what i do ROFL Your frustrations would be better spent on practice instead of QQ on the forums. I'm not saying this to be mean, but there are plenty of ways to deal with that build, and there is no excuse to be losing that much to it. Get someone to help you out, there are plenty of protosses out there that would help you with that, maybe some on your own team. You are one of the top players in the world and in my opnion, a top 3 zerg with a LOT of succes vs. protoss. It's okay to lose to players who are at the top of their game and their races, just hang in there and work it out. ya the few minutes its taking him to write out posts venting frustration while still at the tournament are severely damaging his practice regime. shut the fuck up. you're the reason pros dont post on here anymore. ...yea Ret's post wasn't in the strategy forum, but pros still get shit no matter where they post.
IdrA gets hate all the time...its not just because he's a pro. He's developed this contreversial image for himself that is bound to get some hate.
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On July 19 2012 15:11 MrMcIntosh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 11:42 Whole wrote:On May 28 2012 04:15 IdrA wrote:On May 28 2012 03:48 Lore-Fighting wrote:On May 27 2012 12:55 Liquid`Ret wrote:On May 27 2012 12:54 TheSwamp wrote:On May 27 2012 12:54 Liquid`Ret wrote:
im so fucking sad that i lose to this shit every single tournamment it doesnt matter if i macro inject and overlord perfectly i just get raped by ff's no chance... and if you open anything other than 3 base they can just play something else so gg We still love you Ret! i dont care if you love me honestly (I do care, but you get what I mean) I want to win games and in practice i beat everybody the last 4 days then tournament day comes boom the grubby build that im 0-8 vs no matter what i do ROFL Your frustrations would be better spent on practice instead of QQ on the forums. I'm not saying this to be mean, but there are plenty of ways to deal with that build, and there is no excuse to be losing that much to it. Get someone to help you out, there are plenty of protosses out there that would help you with that, maybe some on your own team. You are one of the top players in the world and in my opnion, a top 3 zerg with a LOT of succes vs. protoss. It's okay to lose to players who are at the top of their game and their races, just hang in there and work it out. ya the few minutes its taking him to write out posts venting frustration while still at the tournament are severely damaging his practice regime. shut the fuck up. you're the reason pros dont post on here anymore. ...yea Ret's post wasn't in the strategy forum, but pros still get shit no matter where they post. IdrA gets hate all the time...its not just because he's a pro. He's developed this contreversial image for himself that is bound to get some hate.
That wasn't Idra getting hate.. That was Idra flaming some guy who was hating on Ret for venting some of his frustration with a specific all in
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Oh my bad :/ haha.
Well I honestly think that some people really just want to watch the world burn. It's a shame that pros shun the forums because of the select few who want to upset the apple cart.
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Pro's really see no incentive to post unless it helps them in some form. The ironic thing is, most of them could probably improve quite a bit if they posted on these forums.
It's not really a big deal anyways, some pro's aren't very creative and can't really think outside of the box or articulate themselves. It's their speed, memory, and decision making that propel them to the highest of tiers. With that said, there are a lot of creative pro's too.
Most good players spend their time in games, with varying amounts of studying; not vice-versa.
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On July 19 2012 23:09 guN-viCe wrote:
. It's their speed, memory, and decision making that propel them to the highest of tiers. With that said, there are a lot of creative pro's too..
They have a good memory. What is it that they're memorizing? Timings? Build Orders? These are things that 'less gifted' players could do with help with. I don't know what the timing of a 3-Rax Stim Timing is, I don't know if I can hold it with a fast third sort of play.
And for those of us with limited time on our hands, creative builds we see in tournaments I think should be documented. From the top of my head, I can only think of 1 player who published their own build on a thread in the Strategy forums, and that is Spanishiwa with his 'Ice Fisher Build'.
The community does its best to recreate these builds and describe them on their own, but without the reasoning that the pros would have making whatever decision, the build kind of negates itself. Sure we can blindly put down a Robotics Facility at 31 Supply (just made that up, go with it  ), but why? What does it gain us? What can we do with it?
These are some of the holes that I think needs to be filled.
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EPT
