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The Pro Players/Everyone Else Gap

Blogs > MrMcIntosh
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1 2 Next All
MrMcIntosh
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia91 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 09:23:42
July 17 2012 11:42 GMT
#1
OK, so here's something that came to mind.
When browsing through the SC2 Strategy Guides I have a couple of habits. Looking for spelling and grammar mistakes (Which is really hypocritical of me, but never mind :D), trying to figure out counters or improvements to the guide, and looking at the sort of advice that some of the community give.

Now I will adhere to say that the Starcraft 2 community is actually really cool. There are a lot of really smart and talented people here and more often than not they are displayed on such mentioned posts, helping out complete strangers as much as possible.

The point to this is that although the people are doing the best they can, I feel it isn't really enough in a lot of cases. When people ask for help, they need a logical, well explained solution bought to them by someone they trust, and I feel that this is where the Pro Players are missing from the equation.

To use an example, take (P)EG.HuK. By doing a really quick search of his name, in the first 78 threads that came up there wasn't a single one in strategy. Not one. Huks PvP was once one of the best in the world, and he hasn't helped anyone?

It would seriosly take 3-5 minutes to write a response, and that person would probably worship the text that appears on their screen, because it was written by someone who they can trust not to bullshit.

My pledge to the Professional Starcraft scene is this. Help some of us out. For 3 minutes of your valuable time, you can really make a difference to some of the poor souls who can't deal with the range 5 Queens.

Thanks for reading.

EDIT: Can a mod change the title to 'An Opinion on Pro Players Usefulness'? Would be much appreciated <3



*
If only Windows came with StarCraft 2 already installed...If only
sorrowptoss
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Canada1431 Posts
July 17 2012 12:38 GMT
#2
I kinda agree with what you're saying: it would be nice if they did do so.

But there are two things that came up to me while reading this. This is strictly my humble opinion

Firstly, progamers generally give out their time and knowledge through coaching, because I believe they prefer to gain money by giving their valuable insight.

Secondly, I don't think that the skill gap is THAT huge between pros and a decent number of members of the SC2 community. If you have watched streams of progamers like Kas, Dimaga, Whitera, Polt... etc, I think it's fair to say that they don't win every single game they play on ladder: they are not gods and I think their answers to, for example, dealing with rage 5 Queens, would only be very slightly more helpful than some GMs that already are giving their thoughts in forums.
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15325 Posts
July 17 2012 12:59 GMT
#3
Well considering HuK's spelling and grammar is beyond atrocious. Are you sure you want him to post more?
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
Megaliskuu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5123 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 13:01:17
July 17 2012 13:01 GMT
#4
"mk 4 gateways ^_^;;;;;;;;;;;;;; thn u mke stalkrs and zealots~~~~~~ and mcr0 try not to loss units T_T;;;;;"

-Huk
|BW>Everything|Add me on star2 KR server TheMuTaL.675 for practice games :)|NEX clan| https://www.dotabuff.com/players/183104694
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
July 17 2012 13:14 GMT
#5
A ton of pros have commented on what a shithole the strategy forum is on TL. It's extremely useful for people below master and probably also people in master, but for pro players, it's filled with a ton of people who have no idea what they are talking about and builds the pros have tried and discarded ages ago. I think it was Idra who commented that there's no point to share knowledge in the strategy forum if you're immediately flamed by 10 people who are probably bronze league.

That said, there are some pros who post from time to time. Darkforce has been posting quite a bit in TangSCs topics for example.
Anacletus
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States733 Posts
July 17 2012 13:17 GMT
#6
Sorry, but I completely disagree. The advice being given is very solid and straight forward, the problem is that people don't so enough on their own. Being told a specific build will only get you so far before you have to think on your own.

The skill gap between pro players and regular players isn't as massive as you think it is. There are a lot of semi-pro players who play a lot but are just not found and could become immensely better from having the time to invest like a pro.

It would be better if people took more active parts in conversations about the game or started asking more open ended questions. Too many people ask things like "how counter 4gate?" and expect people to take them serious, people will only put as much time into a response as you put into the question.

If you want people to get better encourage more people to just talk about the game in a casual manner or to do their own replay analysis and take an active part in discussing the analysis with other people.

I also think your OP is pretty offensive, it's weird hearing that everyone giving advice is untrustworthy/bullshit.
http://talk-to-stimey-please.1324083.n2.nabble.com/
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10683 Posts
July 17 2012 13:24 GMT
#7
Certain pros post(ed) there, mostly the ones that did before they were pros.
Certain pros never did, mostly the ones that also didn't before they were pros.
Certain pros don't anymore, because clueless guys tried to argue with them whitoeut being in the position to argue.
Sc2Corpse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States210 Posts
July 17 2012 13:30 GMT
#8
Misleading title.

I thought this was going to be about how big the playing gap is between Pros and your average joes.

But anyway, I think it would be great if more pros commented on topics about there strats. I find it hard most the time to find anything good online. Like good BO I can copy ect.
The Zombie Protoss <3
MrMcIntosh
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia91 Posts
July 18 2012 09:22 GMT
#9
On July 17 2012 21:59 zatic wrote:
Well considering HuK's spelling and grammar is beyond atrocious. Are you sure you want him to post more?


Bahahaha true, he was just the first pro player to come to mind.
If only Windows came with StarCraft 2 already installed...If only
MrMcIntosh
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia91 Posts
July 18 2012 09:22 GMT
#10
On July 17 2012 22:30 Sc2Corpse wrote:
Misleading title.

I thought this was going to be about how big the playing gap is between Pros and your average joes.

But anyway, I think it would be great if more pros commented on topics about there strats. I find it hard most the time to find anything good online. Like good BO I can copy ect.


Yeah sorry about the title, I went off on a bit of a tangent :/

If only Windows came with StarCraft 2 already installed...If only
MrMcIntosh
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia91 Posts
July 18 2012 09:27 GMT
#11
On July 17 2012 22:17 Anacletus wrote:

I [also] think your OP is pretty offensive, it's weird hearing that everyone giving advice is untrustworthy/bullshit.


I'm sorry if I offended you, I was trying to expand on how many people use these forums to troll and such. There are a great many people who post great advice, but personally I'd like to see advice from more credible sources.

Thanks for the feedback :D
If only Windows came with StarCraft 2 already installed...If only
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9103 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 13:03:54
July 18 2012 13:02 GMT
#12
This makes no sense, why should progamers spend anytime for free to help others improve? If they want to great, if not they have 0 responsibility to ever open the SC2 Strategy forum.

It might be a good move for the progamer though since in SC2 current's atmosphere having a fan base helps, and reaching out to players could be a good avenue for building popularity I suppose.
9-BiT
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States1089 Posts
July 18 2012 18:32 GMT
#13
On July 17 2012 22:01 Megaliskuu wrote:
"I"M SOOOO TIREDDD T_T;;;;;;**~~~~~ <333333"

-Huk

FTFY
kwark_uk: @father_sc learn to play maybe?
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
July 18 2012 19:43 GMT
#14
On July 17 2012 21:59 zatic wrote:
Well considering HuK's spelling and grammar is beyond atrocious. Are you sure you want him to post more?


LOL this indeed.

Also OP professionals will never really post here just because how the community reacts, just a bunch of people who will quote them and half of them will be calling them idiots or do anything they can to insult them because they feel like it. That is why none of them really post in the strategy section let alone anywhere else on TL most of the time.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Xyik
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada728 Posts
July 18 2012 19:55 GMT
#15
Pro players don't want to make statements that are easily debunked by a constantly evolving meta-game. Even if you are a pro it doesn't mean you always have accurate insight into the obscure and often stupid topics that come up in forums, you don't really want to tarnish your image arguing with anti-fans. For example, imagine how much debate a post made by incontrol could generate, eventually degenerating into player-bashing and so forth.
Facultyadjutant
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Sweden1876 Posts
July 18 2012 22:16 GMT
#16
They offer coaching

even Idra
#1 FAN OF TERRY THE INTERN - NONY AND IDRA NUMBER #1, EVERY DAY. AXIOM MANOR - Axiom: Ryung, Alicia, Heart and Crank under the Don TotalBiscuit and the Donnesa Genna Bain- Join the family http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396090#2
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
July 18 2012 23:18 GMT
#17
Just look at some of Belial's posts to see how a semi high level player feels when trying to explain strategy/macro to a low league player. Now imagine a pro trying. It's like talking to a brick wall that has gained some sort of fake intellectual superiority.

I guess the brick wall analogy doesn't really apply, but still.
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
July 19 2012 02:42 GMT
#18
On May 28 2012 04:15 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2012 03:48 Lore-Fighting wrote:
On May 27 2012 12:55 Liquid`Ret wrote:
On May 27 2012 12:54 TheSwamp wrote:
On May 27 2012 12:54 Liquid`Ret wrote:
im so fucking sad that i lose to this shit every single tournamment it doesnt matter if i macro inject and overlord perfectly i just get raped by ff's no chance... and if you open anything other than 3 base they can just play something else so gg


We still love you Ret!


i dont care if you love me honestly (I do care, but you get what I mean) I want to win games and in practice i beat everybody the last 4 days then tournament day comes boom the grubby build that im 0-8 vs no matter what i do ROFL


Your frustrations would be better spent on practice instead of QQ on the forums. I'm not saying this to be mean, but there are plenty of ways to deal with that build, and there is no excuse to be losing that much to it. Get someone to help you out, there are plenty of protosses out there that would help you with that, maybe some on your own team.

You are one of the top players in the world and in my opnion, a top 3 zerg with a LOT of succes vs. protoss. It's okay to lose to players who are at the top of their game and their races, just hang in there and work it out.

ya the few minutes its taking him to write out posts venting frustration while still at the tournament are severely damaging his practice regime.
shut the fuck up. you're the reason pros dont post on here anymore.


...yea Ret's post wasn't in the strategy forum, but pros still get shit no matter where they post.
Silentness
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2821 Posts
July 19 2012 04:46 GMT
#19
I remember IdrA use to give tips on the TL forum back in the BW days... not so sure about now.
GL HF... YOLO..lololollol.
MrMcIntosh
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia91 Posts
July 19 2012 06:11 GMT
#20
On July 19 2012 11:42 Whole wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2012 04:15 IdrA wrote:
On May 28 2012 03:48 Lore-Fighting wrote:
On May 27 2012 12:55 Liquid`Ret wrote:
On May 27 2012 12:54 TheSwamp wrote:
On May 27 2012 12:54 Liquid`Ret wrote:
im so fucking sad that i lose to this shit every single tournamment it doesnt matter if i macro inject and overlord perfectly i just get raped by ff's no chance... and if you open anything other than 3 base they can just play something else so gg


We still love you Ret!


i dont care if you love me honestly (I do care, but you get what I mean) I want to win games and in practice i beat everybody the last 4 days then tournament day comes boom the grubby build that im 0-8 vs no matter what i do ROFL


Your frustrations would be better spent on practice instead of QQ on the forums. I'm not saying this to be mean, but there are plenty of ways to deal with that build, and there is no excuse to be losing that much to it. Get someone to help you out, there are plenty of protosses out there that would help you with that, maybe some on your own team.

You are one of the top players in the world and in my opnion, a top 3 zerg with a LOT of succes vs. protoss. It's okay to lose to players who are at the top of their game and their races, just hang in there and work it out.

ya the few minutes its taking him to write out posts venting frustration while still at the tournament are severely damaging his practice regime.
shut the fuck up. you're the reason pros dont post on here anymore.


...yea Ret's post wasn't in the strategy forum, but pros still get shit no matter where they post.


IdrA gets hate all the time...its not just because he's a pro. He's developed this contreversial image for himself that is bound to get some hate.
If only Windows came with StarCraft 2 already installed...If only
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