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I just wish we could have Nal_Ra playing, then we'd see some real stuff
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On June 10 2012 16:41 ClysmiC wrote:
Ok, I'm convinced that Flash is a complete step above the rest of these guys. It looks like he could probably jump right into this MLG and at least have a shot of getting top 8 or something.
he would lose in the open bracket most likely
his micro is already incredible, but he still needs a lot more strategic variety and sc2 knowledge to perfect his decision making. Also, his knowlledge of unit composition and timings is far off still.
But damn, its already freakin amazin how he plays after such a short time!
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United States2446 Posts
I hate to be a pessimist, but were those games really that good? Everyone venerates the way Flash played, but in my opinion the games weren't anything amazing by any means. Just because they're the BW heroes, it feels like people make their play out to be more amazing than it is.
E: Didn't read your other post. It's cool that you're getting excited about it again. I hope you're able to find the same passion with SC2 as you did with BW.
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Can't seem to find the VODs after 4 minutes of looking through mlg and kespa channel. I guess you have to pay to watch. LOL sc2 -.-
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On June 11 2012 01:31 Chef wrote:
Can't seem to find the VODs after 4 minutes of looking through mlg and kespa channel. I guess you have to pay to watch. LOL sc2 -.-
1. go to mlgpro.com
2. click starcraft 2
3. a giant ass VOD of the last 23 hours starts playing
LOL Chef -.-
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SC2 is still boring for me.
Seeing them all on stage together got my heart pumping, but as soon as SC2 loaded up I just found myself thinking 'meh'.
I followed almost all MLG games because I didn't want to miss the KeSPA invitational, but none of them was half-exciting as BW used to be. The closest one was MKP vs Stephano, which actually made me pay attention to the game unlike the rest.
However I was linked to 2 HotS VODs and the expasion is actually better than WoL for sure, battles last longer and there is BW-esque elements to it. Still feels like a butchered BW version, but at least its better than WoL.
There is still hope...
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On June 11 2012 01:48 fabiano wrote:
SC2 is still boring for me.
Seeing them all on stage together got my heart pumping, but as soon as SC2 loaded up I just found myself thinking 'meh'.
I followed almost all MLG games because I didn't want to miss the KeSPA invitational, but none of them was half-exciting as BW used to be. The closest one was MKP vs Stephano, which actually made me pay attention to the game unlike the rest.
However I was linked to 2 HotS VODs and the expasion is actually better than WoL for sure, battles last longer and there is BW-esque elements to it. Still feels like a butchered BW version, but at least its better than WoL.
There is still hope...
dont forget that players still get a lot better.
imagine MKP and stephano playing HotS on an ever higher level than they play WoL now - against kespa pros on the same level. im sure sooner or later it will get you excited.
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Flash was so scary. So scary. This after practicing for 1.5 months? There is absolutely no doubt that he will dominate. The positioning, the micro, the ceaseless mind games. I'm thinking of game 1 vs. Bisu-- sure Bisu's build could've been tighter, and his transitions quicker, and sure Flash's lack of experience in certain situations showed, but given the context of the game Flash just absolutely crushed through sheer force of will-- you almost never see that kind of raw presence in a game of sc2.
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So glad I stayed up to watch that. :3
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United States4796 Posts
Awwww motbob is adorable.
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On June 11 2012 01:28 Dalguno wrote:
I hate to be a pessimist, but were those games really that good? Everyone venerates the way Flash played, but in my opinion the games weren't anything amazing by any means. Just because they're the BW heroes, it feels like people make their play out to be more amazing than it is.
E: Didn't read your other post. It's cool that you're getting excited about it again. I hope you're able to find the same passion with SC2 as you did with BW.
Well for me it wasnt so much that they were that good as that they were a LOT better then I expected them to be at this point in their sc2 practice. That in turn made me get excited at what kind of play I could be seeing from these guy in 3 months time, and then in 6 months time.
That for me is what made it so exciting because in all honesty I was expecting to see much lower level play than I witnessed.
HYPE!
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Yea I got the same feeling.
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Flash his progress is just ridiculous. This guy will carry the Terran race on his back!
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On June 11 2012 01:48 Backpack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 01:31 Chef wrote:
Can't seem to find the VODs after 4 minutes of looking through mlg and kespa channel. I guess you have to pay to watch. LOL sc2 -.- 1. go to mlgpro.com 2. click starcraft 2 3. a giant ass VOD of the last 23 hours starts playing LOL Chef -.-
So not organized at all and impossible to find if you don't already know what that is? Because it is labeled "polt vs oz" and I don't have ESP. So when do the vods of the progamers occur?
well thanks anyway ;p I'll give it a watch.
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On June 11 2012 03:42 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 01:48 Backpack wrote:On June 11 2012 01:31 Chef wrote:
Can't seem to find the VODs after 4 minutes of looking through mlg and kespa channel. I guess you have to pay to watch. LOL sc2 -.- 1. go to mlgpro.com 2. click starcraft 2 3. a giant ass VOD of the last 23 hours starts playing LOL Chef -.- So not organized at all and impossible to find if you don't already know what that is? Because it is labeled "polt vs oz" and I don't have ESP. So when do the vods of the progamers occur? well thanks anyway ;p I'll give it a watch.
I cant remember the exact time but it was the last few hours of last night, so you should be able to skip forward to it and then poke a few times to find the exact timing.
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The game (3?) where jaedong just kind of kept attacking 24/7 was mind blowing for me lol. But dam did the players improve from before, really shows what lots of dedication and practice can do to people ^_^
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Ya, I dunno they had JD vs leta which were pretty lackluster, apparently a bunch of other games were played on the 'premium stream' then they had the first game of flash v stork, and 3 minutes of the second game of those two, then they cut to a feed of two empty chairs for 3 hours. So yea that's awesome ;p
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I enjoy playing and watching both BW and SC2 regularly.
I liked the special Kespa tourney in SC2 a lot, but mostly because of the personalities - and stuff like the desperate mass queen nydus by JD - not that much because of the gameplay. There's been many SCV rushes and very intense multi-pronged plays in SC2 over this time, even we could say the BW pro's are currently just emulating SC2 pro's for the most part (they did say they study a lot of VODs). I'm just excited for having them in SC2 hopefully developing the game styles further as they become much better than they are now.
P.S. Forgot to mention, it's also super exciting to see how fast they progress. It's been just a week or two, and I can literally see them play more and more thoughtful and solid than they were in the beginning of SPL.
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On June 11 2012 00:13 MCDayC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 23:39 Nazza wrote:On June 10 2012 21:04 MCDayC wrote:
I never know how to respond to these posts.
On the one hand, its awesome that you enjoyed the games so so much. I can't take that away from you, and if you lost a bit of passion coming into SC2, but got in back when the Kespa guys play, the great, thats really a good thing.
On the other hand though, you kinda have to admit that what you said is pretty fluffy. Apart from the inherent impossibility of doing what you said (playing more than the race's ability) in a video with hard numerical caps on units, the idea behind it is still definitely there in SC2, but really, not shown in those Kespa games.
If it wasn't Flash doing the SCV pull, it wouldn't have been winning by force of will, it would have been a well executed all in in which the Protoss slightly botched the defence.
As pointed out in the reddit xpost of this blog and above me in this thread, arguably a better (but by no means the only) example of it came between Stephano vs MKP earlier. Stephano getting an engagement that he should not have been able to win in almost any other circumstance in G2, or MKP loosing 40 SCVs but refusing to die, and going on to win G3.
But even then, I can't be too critical. You got super hyped up by the games (as did loads and loads of other people) and enjoyed SC2 in a different way than you had before, and in the ends thats more important, even if I completely disagree with you. I feel like in SC2, battles are decided before the engagement actually happens almost all the time. You attack at the wrong timing and you just get steamrolled. There is no tension over who is going to win. Maybe it's just internal bias, but I did feel that the KesPa pros did put on an exciting game, with quite a bit of action going on. I dunno, I find quite a lot of tension in SC2 games, you just have to find the right ones, so much of SC2 is played out online or in mad weekend dashes, so truly top level jaw dropping is confined to brief moments in foreign tournaments (though there were certainly some yesterday) but are getting increasingly regular in GSL, particularly the GSTL. But yes, the Kespa were pretty exciting.
I saw FlaSh today, doing all the things that I expected he would do in BW. Maybe it's because I don't watch too much SC2 (Last real sc2 match I watched was last GSL finals), but it just seemed like his expansion timings were way earlier than everyone else's. Just a ridiculously patient way to play the game. He doesn't try and end the game as earlier if he knows that he has a better chance to win later on. I would say that I'm excited/anxious to see him play in SC2, cos he's one of those players that will prefer to drag it out to late game, and does not care about imbalance at all. He played well (he won the thing!) but I don't think its some strategic level above other stuff we are seeing, certainly we seen other pros take expansions earlier and be much more greedy than Flash was. And unfortunately he has done a bit of balance whining, even if it was light and blown hugely out of proportion by the community. He's not a God yet in SC2.
I don't know. I was still dissatisfied with the level of strategy involved in the game a few months ago. Not playing SC2 anymore has made it so that I care less about racial balance, but I still hate the fact that people complain that late game with X/Y/Z race is impossible, and that you still need X unit to counter Y. I'm hoping the new players will not only emulate current pros, but innovate as well. And tbh, I don't see why people want them to fail so badly. The elephant in the room may have angered a lot of people, but do they want the current meta game to stay the way it is? That being said, I am very excited for Flash. I hate the absurd hype his current playing that he gets, but I always get pissed off at crazy hype, I didn't like it for Stephano, ForGG, Lucifron or Aria, and I don't like it now, but I think only idiots don't think that Flash is gonna be really good at SC2. His play isn't there yet, and people need to calm the fuck down about it imo, but he's gonna get there.
His marine splits are better than MKP's, Mvp's, and MMA's while being under 100 minerals. Surely that counts for something. O.o
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On June 11 2012 05:59 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 00:13 MCDayC wrote:On June 10 2012 23:39 Nazza wrote:On June 10 2012 21:04 MCDayC wrote:
I never know how to respond to these posts.
On the one hand, its awesome that you enjoyed the games so so much. I can't take that away from you, and if you lost a bit of passion coming into SC2, but got in back when the Kespa guys play, the great, thats really a good thing.
On the other hand though, you kinda have to admit that what you said is pretty fluffy. Apart from the inherent impossibility of doing what you said (playing more than the race's ability) in a video with hard numerical caps on units, the idea behind it is still definitely there in SC2, but really, not shown in those Kespa games.
If it wasn't Flash doing the SCV pull, it wouldn't have been winning by force of will, it would have been a well executed all in in which the Protoss slightly botched the defence.
As pointed out in the reddit xpost of this blog and above me in this thread, arguably a better (but by no means the only) example of it came between Stephano vs MKP earlier. Stephano getting an engagement that he should not have been able to win in almost any other circumstance in G2, or MKP loosing 40 SCVs but refusing to die, and going on to win G3.
But even then, I can't be too critical. You got super hyped up by the games (as did loads and loads of other people) and enjoyed SC2 in a different way than you had before, and in the ends thats more important, even if I completely disagree with you. I feel like in SC2, battles are decided before the engagement actually happens almost all the time. You attack at the wrong timing and you just get steamrolled. There is no tension over who is going to win. Maybe it's just internal bias, but I did feel that the KesPa pros did put on an exciting game, with quite a bit of action going on. I dunno, I find quite a lot of tension in SC2 games, you just have to find the right ones, so much of SC2 is played out online or in mad weekend dashes, so truly top level jaw dropping is confined to brief moments in foreign tournaments (though there were certainly some yesterday) but are getting increasingly regular in GSL, particularly the GSTL. But yes, the Kespa were pretty exciting.
I saw FlaSh today, doing all the things that I expected he would do in BW. Maybe it's because I don't watch too much SC2 (Last real sc2 match I watched was last GSL finals), but it just seemed like his expansion timings were way earlier than everyone else's. Just a ridiculously patient way to play the game. He doesn't try and end the game as earlier if he knows that he has a better chance to win later on. I would say that I'm excited/anxious to see him play in SC2, cos he's one of those players that will prefer to drag it out to late game, and does not care about imbalance at all. He played well (he won the thing!) but I don't think its some strategic level above other stuff we are seeing, certainly we seen other pros take expansions earlier and be much more greedy than Flash was. And unfortunately he has done a bit of balance whining, even if it was light and blown hugely out of proportion by the community. He's not a God yet in SC2.
I don't know. I was still dissatisfied with the level of strategy involved in the game a few months ago. Not playing SC2 anymore has made it so that I care less about racial balance, but I still hate the fact that people complain that late game with X/Y/Z race is impossible, and that you still need X unit to counter Y. I'm hoping the new players will not only emulate current pros, but innovate as well. And tbh, I don't see why people want them to fail so badly. The elephant in the room may have angered a lot of people, but do they want the current meta game to stay the way it is? That being said, I am very excited for Flash. I hate the absurd hype his current playing that he gets, but I always get pissed off at crazy hype, I didn't like it for Stephano, ForGG, Lucifron or Aria, and I don't like it now, but I think only idiots don't think that Flash is gonna be really good at SC2. His play isn't there yet, and people need to calm the fuck down about it imo, but he's gonna get there. His marine splits are better than MKP's, Mvp's, and MMA's while being under 100 minerals. Surely that counts for something. O.o
If it were true. He's good, and absolutely amazing for how long he's been playing, but Flash is worse mechanically and strategically in SC2 then both MMA and MKP, Mvp maybe he's comparable, but only because Mvp's wrists are on fire.
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EPT
