EPTBut I'm one of those people who don't look at a player handles then cheers for them as much as others rather I am a person who mostly cheers for "X" race (protoss, terran, zerg). For hopes of good games.
Great read, hope it open's some eyes.
Stunted Growth of SC2 - Page 2
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SkyBlaze
Canada191 Posts
But I'm one of those people who don't look at a player handles then cheers for them as much as others rather I am a person who mostly cheers for "X" race (protoss, terran, zerg). For hopes of good games. Great read, hope it open's some eyes. | ||
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Irre
United States646 Posts
I would almost go as far as to say that this obsession with Foreigner vs Korea puts a huge extra stress and pressure onto our white dude heroes, and maybe lifting that would actually help their results as well! Well written article, and I agree that this is stunting sc2 growth sadly. But the best way to deal with it is to start from the top down in not bringing this issue up, as the community looks to these people first and foremost. Let it stop being such a big deal, a lot of ppl are tired of it anyway! While doing this, we still need to find some way for foreigners to up their level, get more practice etc. With less stress, more open qualifiers that arent purposefully there to spite koreans, I think things could really improve. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
This is what I've been preaching since day one about making it about the players and generating hype by good storytelling. The producers and casters alike have to help generate hype. We need a change-up. The casters (this pretty much goes for everyone in the West) need to switch it up when it comes to how they point out mistakes because it doesn't help build a player at all. There is still a lot they can learn when it comes to how the Korean's cast-- the roller coaster has to keep climbing to the peak rather than start and stopping. They always seem to find a way to devalue a player too even though they keep calling them "the best in the world." This phrase has to disappear. There are much better ways of promoting players and the producers could use more cameras that aren't static. That way you can provide full coverage as things happen and build the actual stories going on and as they unfold. | ||
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Seiuchi
United States931 Posts
On April 21 2012 03:45 Saechiis wrote: I'm confused, there was no foreigner competition at all in BW for the past 10 years, yet we care about Korean Proleague, Starleagues, teams and players and their storylines. So I would argue that the "foreigner" aspect isn't all there is in terms of emotional connection. I feel the foreign side of ESPORTS coverage has gotten extremely self-absorbed with the notion of "OMG, maybe we can compete". Every article is about what foreigner might or might not accomplish whereas the storylines around Koreans in context with the Korean scene is extremely lackluster to non-existant. Flash, Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, we don't care they're Korean because we've been reading translated articles concerning their lives and gaming for years. We've gotten the chance to identify with them as people, rather than it being another faceless Korean. We need a more in-depth view of the Korean scene and it's personalities so we can pick someone to cheer for, even when the games suck or there are no foreigners. For instance, I'd love to know the man behind Squirtle. Where was he born, what kind of person does he see himself as, how was his youth, what hobby's does he have, what games does he play, how did he get on Startale, gossip concerning teammates etc etc. You won in an exciting game 3: The games went as planned for me, so i was able to win. Thx to teammates for practive and my fans for cheering, kthx bye. That's not enough o_O The difference is that the people who cared about and played BW in the foreign scene were a small fraction of what people want to support ESPORTS. That being said, you're correct in that OGN and MBC (rip) did a much better job of promoting players because of their superior resources; GOM can't match that, and until OGN gets a contract with Blizzard for SC2 games we're not going to have good opportunities to learn about Korean players. That being said, while I agree there are many foreign SC2 players who are getting their hands held because of name recognition (which seems to happen with EVERY major team), the League of Legends references weren't entirely truthful. League's viewership continues to grow at a rate unmatched (the reason why IPL4 boasted they had the biggest foreign viewership ever). But more to the point, while you mentioned large gaming organizations sponsor League teams, the ones people cheer for in general are the ones that built the scene like Counter Logic and SoloMid. That's more because they built the game's viewership through streaming and more importantly, actually got results. | ||
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Seiuchi
United States931 Posts
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MannerKiss
United States2398 Posts
I believe for me it has to do with the amount of content - before, expecially with BW there weren't that many tournaments, there were very few finals so the excitement level was very high for me. Now, it seems we have a large tournament or significant event every other weekend if not every weekend, so each final is really meaningless to me. Without the west vs east commentary or some developed drama throughout the tournament (MC calling someone out in a big way for example) i'm not even remotely interested in the outcome. I believe this also has to do with the fact that SC2 games on the whole can be very...anticlimactic compared to BW - the excitement level on a game by game basis is much lower, meaning that in any given final it could be a really simple walkover without an ounce of excitement (as we saw in GSL repeatedly). If the trend continues the only way I'll continue to watch SC2 at the level I do currently is if tournaments bring back the no koreans allowed like TSL did, which is very sad to say. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 21 2012 03:45 Saechiis wrote: Well, firstly TL was a smaller community and definitely not aimed at your casual gamers. And secondly, we were clutching at storylines post 03.03 hoping that Bisu would be the next bonjwa and actually in 2007 the current generation of pros came into their own and had to build up their fanbases.I'm confused, there was no foreigner competition at all in BW for the past 10 years, yet we care about Korean Proleague, Starleagues, teams and players and their storylines. So I would argue that the "foreigner" aspect isn't all there is in terms of emotional connection. I feel the foreign side of ESPORTS coverage has gotten extremely self-absorbed with the notion of "OMG, maybe we can compete". Every article is about what foreigners might or might not accomplish whereas the storylines around Koreans in context with the Korean scene is extremely lackluster to non-existant. To some extent, but the extent of Korean domination has made the foreigner storyline something we desperately want to see. And when it happens, we lap it up (see: Haypro vs Nestea/MVP for instance).Flash, Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, we don't care they're Korean because we've been reading translated articles concerning their lives and gaming for years. We've gotten the chance to identify with them as people, rather than it being another faceless Korean. We need a more in-depth view of the Korean scene and it's personalities so we can pick someone to cheer for, even when the games suck or there are no foreigners. Agreed with what you are saying here. And MKP is the perfect example of a Korean who has the storylines and the charisma to get people excited when they see him play. Perhaps you could go one further and rather than invest in foreigners and hope for that storyline to pay off, you invest in getting to know the players better who are performing (the faceless) through hosting smaller events where they're invited and build up the scene that way. It could work!For instance, I'd love to know the man behind Squirtle. Where was he born, what kind of person does he see himself as, how was his youth, what hobby's does he have, what games does he play, how did he get on Startale, gossip concerning teammates etc etc. You won in an exciting game 3: The games went as planned for me, so i was able to win. I want to thank teammates for practice and my fans for cheering, kthx bye. That's not enough o_O On April 21 2012 03:51 StarStruck wrote: Plexa, This is what I've been preaching since day one about making it about the players and generating hype by good storytelling. The producers and casters alike have to help generate hype. We need a change-up. The casters (this pretty much goes for everyone in the West) need to switch it up when it comes to how they point out mistakes because it doesn't help build a player at all. There is still a lot they can learn when it comes to how the Korean's cast-- the roller coaster has to keep climbing to the peak rather than start and stopping. They always seem to find a way to devalue a player too even though they keep calling them "the best in the world." This phrase has to disappear. There are much better ways of promoting players and the producers could use more cameras that aren't static. That way you can provide full coverage as things happen and build the actual stories going on and as they unfold. Dont even get me started about casting hahaha. Although Khaltosis could be the way of the future. | ||
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LunaSea
Luxembourg369 Posts
Hot news guys : Team Liquid bought by MLG ! (I can't figure another reason than this ...) I'm sure that the OP is the kind of guys that "plays as the marine" like Sundance or loves the "ZvG" matchup. I didn't play Brood War nor followed any eSports before Starcraft 2 but I would prefer to have a small but dedicated community than a 100 million casuals that care more about nationality than skill level. | ||
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ReketSomething
United States6012 Posts
woooo | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
The root of the problem is that the finalists for IPL4 did not have the tools to connect with the crowd. No background story, no face, no personality. The players themselves most definitely have a personality, but if we keep having events which cater to the underdog like IPL does, we'll keep seeing faceless players winning and fewer people giving a damn. | ||
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sc14s
United States5052 Posts
To date, TSL3 has been the only true open tournament which showcased the best the non-Korean community had to offer (and indeed, Thorzain was born). when the HELL are we getting TSL4????????? seriously i enjoyed 3 alot.. when is 4 coming? | ||
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sc14s
United States5052 Posts
On April 21 2012 04:07 Novalisk wrote: I don't think "korean" is the problem, but "faceless" definitely is. No one really cares about Alive as this was one of his first events. No one really cares about Squirtle as he is rarely seen in foreign events. The root of the problem is that the finalists for IPL4 did not have the tools to connect with the crowd. No background story, no face, no personality. The players themselves most definitely have a personality, but if we keep having events which cater to the underdog like IPL does, we'll keep seeing faceless players winning and fewer people giving a damn. this is why things like GSL off the record are great things to have pop up. | ||
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KING CHARLIE :D
United States447 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On April 21 2012 03:58 Plexa wrote: Well, firstly TL was a smaller community and definitely not aimed at your casual gamers. And secondly, we were clutching at storylines post 03.03 hoping that Bisu would be the next bonjwa and actually in 2007 the current generation of pros came into their own and had to build up their fanbases. To some extent, but the extent of Korean domination has made the foreigner storyline something we desperately want to see. And when it happens, we lap it up (see: Haypro vs Nestea/MVP for instance). Agreed with what you are saying here. And MKP is the perfect example of a Korean who has the storylines and the charisma to get people excited when they see him play. Perhaps you could go one further and rather than invest in foreigners and hope for that storyline to pay off, you invest in getting to know the players better who are performing (the faceless) through hosting smaller events where they're invited and build up the scene that way. It could work! Dont even get me started about casting hahaha. Although Khaltosis could be the way of the future. Oh snap. :> | ||
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MannerKiss
United States2398 Posts
The only solution to this is game/map balancing/zerg performing, but I believe (with the exception of GSL BLAH) that this is going very well. | ||
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
On April 21 2012 03:45 Saechiis wrote: I'm confused, there was no foreigner competition at all in BW for the past 10 years, yet we care about Korean Proleague, Starleagues, teams and players and their storylines. So I would argue that the "foreigner" aspect isn't all there is in terms of emotional connection. I feel the foreign side of ESPORTS coverage has gotten extremely self-absorbed with the notion of "OMG, maybe we can compete". Every article is about what foreigners might or might not accomplish whereas the storylines around Koreans in context with the Korean scene is extremely lackluster to non-existant. Flash, Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, we don't care they're Korean because we've been reading translated articles concerning their lives and gaming for years. We've gotten the chance to identify with them as people, rather than it being another faceless Korean. We need a more in-depth view of the Korean scene and it's personalities so we can pick someone to cheer for, even when the games suck or there are no foreigners. For instance, I'd love to know the man behind Squirtle. Where was he born, what kind of person does he see himself as, how was his youth, what hobby's does he have, what games does he play, how did he get on Startale, gossip concerning teammates etc etc. You won in an exciting game 3: The games went as planned for me, so i was able to win. I want to thank teammates for practice and my fans for cheering, kthx bye. That's not enough o_O Exactly this. Koreans need more PR, if anything. Hopefully the merger with the proleague will help with that (DES/fomos coverage, etc.) | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
Now of days it's pretty much luck in terms of bracket to get noticed as a foreigner (for example, imagine if Scarlett had played Leenock first round of the tournament, she most likely would have been knocked down to the loser bracket there and then played some other really good korean and lost in an earlier round and would not have been noticed at all, but she faced a korean terious and then ddoro and won, then in losers got demuslim and won and well we all know, but point being had she faced you know leenock then hero or oz or some other twice nobody would know who she was. Her beating Terious (not sure who this is but he's korean and he's on prime and in code A), Ddoro, taking a game off of oz, and then beating demuslim got her name out there. I also agree with you on the aspect of qualifiers as well. Right now every single tournament has way, way to many invites and then a few qualifying spots. Invite tournaments are nice and all but should be much rarer then they are now. This is one of the reasons I wish TSL4 would be announced because it's mainly a qualify and you can play tournament (and I pray to god it stays that way). TSL is a way for players to get their names out there (especially if koreans can't play in all the qualifiers). This makes it a lot easier to get your name out there as a player if there are a lot of qualify and barely any invites compared to how it is now where there is mainly invites with some qualifiers. Just my thoughts on it anyway, good read I enjoyed and agreed with most of your points ^^. | ||
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
i think another large reason this is a problem for no-namers, is because tournaments like MLG just seed in people who have been playing for a while - mostly the better non-koreans (who generally aren't on the same level as the koreans, and fall into losers bracket and then out of tournament) while the others (who may be just as good as those who were seeded) have to face off against someone like Leenock who beats them early on in the tournament, but really this player was no better than the people who were seeded into winners bracket and lost to Leenock or whoever also. | ||
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ArchDC
Malaysia1996 Posts
I like Squirtle (some personality and an underdog), but I couldn't care at all for Alive (not an underdog, boring and not personable). Oh well, there's Naniwa, Creator, Leenock, Stephano, Maru and Illusion to look forward to their future. Also always fun to watch MVP, MarineKing, Parting, Hero, DRG and Nestea display skill. | ||
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Masq
Canada1792 Posts
Someone should link that troll flash video of the korean plane landing and scooping up the MLG cheque | ||
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