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I just wanted to share my feelings and thoughts about the decision of whomever to have a rematch between Parting and MarineKing in game 4 after MKP dropped out of the game in the GSTL Season 1 2012 Final.
Now it is 6:11 in the morning and I'm lying in bed and writing this on my laptop and I'm really not amused with what I've seen in the last ~4 hours.
First of all I want to say that I'm a huge fan of the GSL and the Korean SC2 scene. I follow almost every single game in the GSL and am rooting for a lot of players at once. So I wouldn't say that I'm biased or anything. For me great play counts and the better player may win.
When I started watching these Finals I was really excited. The two best teams in the world would duke it out in a Bo9 series.
The first 3 games were amazing with Startale bringing out their ace-player Parting very soon. Obviously to put some pressure on to Prime and force them to bring out their ace player, MKP, in return.
So in the game that would decide the whole series one player dropped. Yeah that's right. A player dropped out of the most important game of the series and that after 26 minutes of a pure fight to the death where one player looked to eventually have a decent advantage and on the way to decide the game in his favour.
A shock moment for everyone in the room, including Dustin Browder and Mike Morhaime from Blizzard, and for thousands of fans watching all around the world.
People immediately started screaming "We Want LAN!" and the chaos started.
No one knew what was gonna happen. We only knew that someone had to decide what's gonna happen.
After a five minute break and after judges were studying the replay, Wolf and Khaldor announced that we're going to see another game between those two players. In my opinion - after watching the game and Khaldor and Wolf trying to analyse the replay - a wrong decision.
Parting was on his way to win the game and had a decent advantage. As Wolf even said: MKPs reinforcements could have been killed immediately after spawning from his production buildings.
But the decision of the "judges" stands and the regame was played. And MKP won it and not only that - MKP eventually won the whole clanwar.
Although the casters said that Startale agreed to have a rematch, their hectically gesturing coach looked not amused and certainly not like he agreed.
However. What has been done has been done.
I'd still like to hear an official statement from GOM TV or their judges explaining the basis of their decisionmaking as there was a LOT of money on the line.
I think today was one of the darkest days in the history of Starcraft 2.
Please feel free to comment and discuss below..
PS: Please excuse any typos or grammar mistakes.
 
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I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1.
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I'd still like to hear an official statement from GOM TV or their judges explaining the basis of their decisionmaking as there was a LOT of money on the line.
I'll be impressed if GOM actually releases a statement on this and explain their reasoning on why the regame decision was justified.
I'll probably still disagree with GOM's regame decision but I'll appreciate GOM's transparency and it's the only way to minimize or remove the controversy surrounding the GSTL finals.
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Blame windows. the same thing that happened to mkp in that games been happening to my comp a few times the past week.
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On April 08 2012 13:52 Bagration wrote:
I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1.
Blizzard didn't ruin GSTL Season 1. It was reported that the computer disconnected from the Internet, not SC2 disconnecting. I'd rather believe into the authorities then thinking of it as a conspiracy.
The response after thinking about it was a little weird, I mean.. Clearly parting was ahead and about to win.
It wasn't Blizzard, nor was it Prime or Star Tale. It was GOM's referees.
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I think GOMTV and other tournaments need to evaluate the system to handle drops. If one player's is at a distinct advantage it should be extended into a Bo3(Player gets a 1 game advantage). If it is very close to even then just regame. If one player is so far ahead that the game was over then that should be the case. This still puts some judgement in the officials hands, but way less than what is the case now
In this case I think the Bo3 would have been the correct implementation of this system
Yes this adds games, but honestly it should be a relatively rare event. So while it may end up putting a tournament behind once in a while, the benefits would be worth it.
Also Blizzard should implement reconnect support to at least custom games. I think the ladder is fine without out that though.
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On April 08 2012 14:04 MonkSEA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 13:52 Bagration wrote:
I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1. Blizzard didn't ruin GSTL Season 1. It was reported that the computer disconnected from the Internet, not SC2 disconnecting. I'd rather believe into the authorities then thinking of it as a conspiracy. The response after thinking about it was a little weird, I mean.. Clearly parting was ahead and about to win. It wasn't Blizzard, nor was it Prime or Star Tale. It was GOM's referees.
If they were playing on LAN, this would not have happened, that is why he is blaming Blizzard.
I was super pumped about the series up until that point of drop. After the drop, everything became a 'what if'. Like he said, it was lose-lose from that single point. if only we had LAN.
you could tell from MKP's expression after his win vs parting that the win was somewhat hollow
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On April 08 2012 14:04 feanor1 wrote:
I think GOMTV and other tournaments need to evaluate the system to handle drops.
Exactly. I'm pretty sure they all have their rules, how to judge this, but if it really comes down to it, it seems they have no clue what to do.
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i was talkin to friend about this.
this is in my opinion a reflection of how greedy blizzard is and they need to implement lan (in a tournmanet version at the least) They'll start complaining about piracy but sc isnt that fun without online anyways. besides they even have a free multiplayer demo. so imo blizzard needs to work on lan asp
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On April 08 2012 14:04 MonkSEA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 13:52 Bagration wrote:
I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1. Blizzard didn't ruin GSTL Season 1. It was reported that the computer disconnected from the Internet, not SC2 disconnecting. I'd rather believe into the authorities then thinking of it as a conspiracy.
The response after thinking about it was a little weird, I mean.. Clearly parting was ahead and about to win. It wasn't Blizzard, nor was it Prime or Star Tale. It was GOM's referees.
I know what you're talking about, but I don't think so.
I think I posted it about 6-7 times why that the network wasn't at fault (although recent posts aren't finding the posts yet)
example:
On April 08 2012 12:20 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 12:19 infey wrote:On April 08 2012 12:13 SenorChang wrote:On April 08 2012 12:11 L3g3nd_ wrote:On April 08 2012 12:08 scaban84 wrote:On April 08 2012 12:06 Tobblish wrote:On April 08 2012 12:04 s3rp wrote:On April 08 2012 12:01 Snorkle wrote:
MKP should do the respectful thing and throw this game. Kinda like how you give the ball back to the other team if one of their players gets hurt. Giving the ball back doesn't equal losing on purpose though. Thats more like scoring an own goal because someone a ref. robbed the opponent of one . And that never happens .... The refs decide regame you take it and run simple as that. That has nothing to do with respect you play to win end of story. And if the teams actually had ANY balls they would just stop playing SC2 until Blizzard added LAN. I was expecting a "gg blizzard" comment at the end but then again he's Korean =/ Yeah exactly he's Korean and a pro. Which means he does what he's paid to do. Your post makes no sense. Do you understand that LAN would not have fixed that drop? yes it would have. it was an internet issue, LAN doesnt use the internet. That's not a trustworthy source whatsoever. He has so many obligations to protect the organisation and relations with Blizzard. It casts doubt, which is what it was designed to do, It's far more likely it was an internet issue than a NIC failing and then suddenly working again or losing connection to a wired LAN. Funny how this almost never happened in all of BW history but everytime it happens (very often) in SC2 it's never the internet. Of course, noone can say for sure, sadly. - Hardware issue? then why did they say internet issue, I call bullshit - if it was using LAN connection to the Local Network, then I call bullshit - if it wasn't (WLAN), wtf are they doing. BS.
I had other ones I worded better, but I had to write it about 5-7 times already so it's getting tiring (and I can't find my posts since I posted so much)
(Also if it wasn't an hardware issue/local network issue, then it's a wireless issue, in which case, parting + casters would've been dropped too)
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I think Parting was the clear victor, but they had to regame or the crowd would've gone nuts: booing, shouting, etc. MKP has a lot of fans.
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The thing is, partinG really couldn't camp all those production structures with only 5 stalkers, and the rest of his reinforcements were halfway across the map.
Imagine if the game went on for 10 more seconds, some marauders and marines would have come out and killed the 5 stalkers, the casters would have said "AND MKP HOLDS", the zealots in the middle of the map would turn around, and they both had strong economies to rebuild their armies. Game goes on.
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I would also like to see GOM's explanation behind the re-game. Sure, Blizzard created inferior conditions that helped make this possible, but GOM had the tool - the replay - to use to make the fair decision.
Depending on what they offer and in-depth analyses of the game from community members, we'll see how much of that decision was based on evidence and how much it was based on human error.
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On April 08 2012 14:11 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:04 MonkSEA wrote:On April 08 2012 13:52 Bagration wrote:
I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1. Blizzard didn't ruin GSTL Season 1. It was reported that the computer disconnected from the Internet, not SC2 disconnecting. I'd rather believe into the authorities then thinking of it as a conspiracy.
The response after thinking about it was a little weird, I mean.. Clearly parting was ahead and about to win. It wasn't Blizzard, nor was it Prime or Star Tale. It was GOM's referees. I know what you're talking about, but I don't think so. I think I posted it about 6-7 times why that the network wasn't at fault (although recent posts aren't finding the posts yet) example: Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 12:20 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 12:19 infey wrote:On April 08 2012 12:13 SenorChang wrote:On April 08 2012 12:11 L3g3nd_ wrote:On April 08 2012 12:08 scaban84 wrote:On April 08 2012 12:06 Tobblish wrote:On April 08 2012 12:04 s3rp wrote:On April 08 2012 12:01 Snorkle wrote:
MKP should do the respectful thing and throw this game. Kinda like how you give the ball back to the other team if one of their players gets hurt. Giving the ball back doesn't equal losing on purpose though. Thats more like scoring an own goal because someone a ref. robbed the opponent of one . And that never happens .... The refs decide regame you take it and run simple as that. That has nothing to do with respect you play to win end of story. And if the teams actually had ANY balls they would just stop playing SC2 until Blizzard added LAN. I was expecting a "gg blizzard" comment at the end but then again he's Korean =/ Yeah exactly he's Korean and a pro. Which means he does what he's paid to do. Your post makes no sense. Do you understand that LAN would not have fixed that drop? yes it would have. it was an internet issue, LAN doesnt use the internet. https://twitter.com/#!/dting888/status/188819332145479681 That's not a trustworthy source whatsoever. He has so many obligations to protect the organisation and relations with Blizzard. It casts doubt, which is what it was designed to do, It's far more likely it was an internet issue than a NIC failing and then suddenly working again or losing connection to a wired LAN. Funny how this almost never happened in all of BW history but everytime it happens (very often) in SC2 it's never the internet. Of course, noone can say for sure, sadly. - Hardware issue? then why did they say internet issue, I call bullshit - if it was using LAN connection to the Local Network, then I call bullshit - if it wasn't (WLAN), wtf are they doing. BS. I had other ones I worded better, but I had to write it about 5-7 times already so it's getting tiring (and I can't find my posts since I posted so much) (Also if it wasn't an hardware issue/local network issue, then it's a wireless issue, in which case, parting + casters would've been dropped too)
So effectively, you're accusing the head of IPL of lying.
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On April 08 2012 14:29 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:11 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:04 MonkSEA wrote:On April 08 2012 13:52 Bagration wrote:
I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1. Blizzard didn't ruin GSTL Season 1. It was reported that the computer disconnected from the Internet, not SC2 disconnecting. I'd rather believe into the authorities then thinking of it as a conspiracy.
The response after thinking about it was a little weird, I mean.. Clearly parting was ahead and about to win. It wasn't Blizzard, nor was it Prime or Star Tale. It was GOM's referees. I know what you're talking about, but I don't think so. I think I posted it about 6-7 times why that the network wasn't at fault (although recent posts aren't finding the posts yet) example: On April 08 2012 12:20 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 12:19 infey wrote:On April 08 2012 12:13 SenorChang wrote:On April 08 2012 12:11 L3g3nd_ wrote:On April 08 2012 12:08 scaban84 wrote:On April 08 2012 12:06 Tobblish wrote:On April 08 2012 12:04 s3rp wrote:On April 08 2012 12:01 Snorkle wrote:
MKP should do the respectful thing and throw this game. Kinda like how you give the ball back to the other team if one of their players gets hurt. Giving the ball back doesn't equal losing on purpose though. Thats more like scoring an own goal because someone a ref. robbed the opponent of one . And that never happens .... The refs decide regame you take it and run simple as that. That has nothing to do with respect you play to win end of story. And if the teams actually had ANY balls they would just stop playing SC2 until Blizzard added LAN. I was expecting a "gg blizzard" comment at the end but then again he's Korean =/ Yeah exactly he's Korean and a pro. Which means he does what he's paid to do. Your post makes no sense. Do you understand that LAN would not have fixed that drop? yes it would have. it was an internet issue, LAN doesnt use the internet. https://twitter.com/#!/dting888/status/188819332145479681 That's not a trustworthy source whatsoever. He has so many obligations to protect the organisation and relations with Blizzard. It casts doubt, which is what it was designed to do, It's far more likely it was an internet issue than a NIC failing and then suddenly working again or losing connection to a wired LAN. Funny how this almost never happened in all of BW history but everytime it happens (very often) in SC2 it's never the internet. Of course, noone can say for sure, sadly. - Hardware issue? then why did they say internet issue, I call bullshit - if it was using LAN connection to the Local Network, then I call bullshit - if it wasn't (WLAN), wtf are they doing. BS. I had other ones I worded better, but I had to write it about 5-7 times already so it's getting tiring (and I can't find my posts since I posted so much) (Also if it wasn't an hardware issue/local network issue, then it's a wireless issue, in which case, parting + casters would've been dropped too) So effectively, you're accusing the head of IPL of lying.
if it's using lan cords.
then yes, it is BS
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On April 08 2012 14:29 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:11 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:04 MonkSEA wrote:On April 08 2012 13:52 Bagration wrote:
I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1. Blizzard didn't ruin GSTL Season 1. It was reported that the computer disconnected from the Internet, not SC2 disconnecting. I'd rather believe into the authorities then thinking of it as a conspiracy.
The response after thinking about it was a little weird, I mean.. Clearly parting was ahead and about to win. It wasn't Blizzard, nor was it Prime or Star Tale. It was GOM's referees. I know what you're talking about, but I don't think so. I think I posted it about 6-7 times why that the network wasn't at fault (although recent posts aren't finding the posts yet) example: On April 08 2012 12:20 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 12:19 infey wrote:On April 08 2012 12:13 SenorChang wrote:On April 08 2012 12:11 L3g3nd_ wrote:On April 08 2012 12:08 scaban84 wrote:On April 08 2012 12:06 Tobblish wrote:On April 08 2012 12:04 s3rp wrote:On April 08 2012 12:01 Snorkle wrote:
MKP should do the respectful thing and throw this game. Kinda like how you give the ball back to the other team if one of their players gets hurt. Giving the ball back doesn't equal losing on purpose though. Thats more like scoring an own goal because someone a ref. robbed the opponent of one . And that never happens .... The refs decide regame you take it and run simple as that. That has nothing to do with respect you play to win end of story. And if the teams actually had ANY balls they would just stop playing SC2 until Blizzard added LAN. I was expecting a "gg blizzard" comment at the end but then again he's Korean =/ Yeah exactly he's Korean and a pro. Which means he does what he's paid to do. Your post makes no sense. Do you understand that LAN would not have fixed that drop? yes it would have. it was an internet issue, LAN doesnt use the internet. https://twitter.com/#!/dting888/status/188819332145479681 That's not a trustworthy source whatsoever. He has so many obligations to protect the organisation and relations with Blizzard. It casts doubt, which is what it was designed to do, It's far more likely it was an internet issue than a NIC failing and then suddenly working again or losing connection to a wired LAN. Funny how this almost never happened in all of BW history but everytime it happens (very often) in SC2 it's never the internet. Of course, noone can say for sure, sadly. - Hardware issue? then why did they say internet issue, I call bullshit - if it was using LAN connection to the Local Network, then I call bullshit - if it wasn't (WLAN), wtf are they doing. BS. I had other ones I worded better, but I had to write it about 5-7 times already so it's getting tiring (and I can't find my posts since I posted so much) (Also if it wasn't an hardware issue/local network issue, then it's a wireless issue, in which case, parting + casters would've been dropped too) So effectively, you're accusing the head of IPL of lying.
They're not going to blame blizzard that would be a stupid thing to do, im not saying theyre lying but they wouldn't come out and blame blizzard
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I agree with the decision, being a diehard fan of PartinG and MKP for a long time now. Both players had the ability to win the first set, though parting had the more advantageous army, MKP had the economy (so I hear, missed the epic game) to actually produce from all production facilities at a time.
Unless it is absolutely clear, and I mean DAMN CLEAR that the game was over with a dc (ie Bomber v MKP after MKP finished off the last marines and was hunting the last buildings) then it should be awarded. If there is any kind of gray, such as the match tonight, re game... With as volatile of a game sc2 is and how much a few tight decisions can affect the game, anything can happen. Which is why it's fun!
I also wouldn't be opposed to temporary bo3 format where the dc player loses the set or set is awarded to more advantaged player by referee.
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On April 08 2012 14:29 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:11 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:04 MonkSEA wrote:On April 08 2012 13:52 Bagration wrote:
I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1. Blizzard didn't ruin GSTL Season 1. It was reported that the computer disconnected from the Internet, not SC2 disconnecting. I'd rather believe into the authorities then thinking of it as a conspiracy.
The response after thinking about it was a little weird, I mean.. Clearly parting was ahead and about to win. It wasn't Blizzard, nor was it Prime or Star Tale. It was GOM's referees. I know what you're talking about, but I don't think so. I think I posted it about 6-7 times why that the network wasn't at fault (although recent posts aren't finding the posts yet) example: On April 08 2012 12:20 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 12:19 infey wrote:On April 08 2012 12:13 SenorChang wrote:On April 08 2012 12:11 L3g3nd_ wrote:On April 08 2012 12:08 scaban84 wrote:On April 08 2012 12:06 Tobblish wrote:On April 08 2012 12:04 s3rp wrote:On April 08 2012 12:01 Snorkle wrote:
MKP should do the respectful thing and throw this game. Kinda like how you give the ball back to the other team if one of their players gets hurt. Giving the ball back doesn't equal losing on purpose though. Thats more like scoring an own goal because someone a ref. robbed the opponent of one . And that never happens .... The refs decide regame you take it and run simple as that. That has nothing to do with respect you play to win end of story. And if the teams actually had ANY balls they would just stop playing SC2 until Blizzard added LAN. I was expecting a "gg blizzard" comment at the end but then again he's Korean =/ Yeah exactly he's Korean and a pro. Which means he does what he's paid to do. Your post makes no sense. Do you understand that LAN would not have fixed that drop? yes it would have. it was an internet issue, LAN doesnt use the internet. https://twitter.com/#!/dting888/status/188819332145479681 That's not a trustworthy source whatsoever. He has so many obligations to protect the organisation and relations with Blizzard. It casts doubt, which is what it was designed to do, It's far more likely it was an internet issue than a NIC failing and then suddenly working again or losing connection to a wired LAN. Funny how this almost never happened in all of BW history but everytime it happens (very often) in SC2 it's never the internet. Of course, noone can say for sure, sadly. - Hardware issue? then why did they say internet issue, I call bullshit - if it was using LAN connection to the Local Network, then I call bullshit - if it wasn't (WLAN), wtf are they doing. BS. I had other ones I worded better, but I had to write it about 5-7 times already so it's getting tiring (and I can't find my posts since I posted so much) (Also if it wasn't an hardware issue/local network issue, then it's a wireless issue, in which case, parting + casters would've been dropped too) So effectively, you're accusing the head of IPL of lying.
Not all that far-fetched imo until IPL wants to come out and explain how a computer possibly lost connection with the local network. I'm all for giving IPL the benefit of the doubt here, they've done great things. However, conspiracy theorists are going to go bonkers with this b/c saying "it lost connection with the local area network" is pretty damn hard to do.
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There is a clear precedence in Starcraft - a re-game is to be issued unless the game is 100% won for a side. There is no doubt Parting was winning, but the referee ruled that it was not a 100% decision.
In many sporting matches, the referee has to make tough calls and we don't clamour for sporting bodies to release the reasons regarding the decision making.
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On April 08 2012 14:37 Azzur wrote:
There is a clear precedence in Starcraft - a re-game is to be issued unless the game is 100% won for a side. There is no doubt Parting was winning, but the referee ruled that it was not a 100% decision.
In many sporting matches, the referee has to make tough calls and we don't clamour for sporting bodies to release the reasons regarding the decision making.
This is true.. very true. The question you need to ask yourself is not "Was parting really very far ahead?". Instead, you need to ask yourself "was there a chance in a million that, with Parting playing normally, MKP could have won the game?" if the answer is yes, then there needs to be a rematch. Even if the chance is very very small.
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Blizz completely at fault here. Even if they want to hold on to their ridiculous reasons to omit LAN from the game, they could just use a tiny bit of common sense and make custom games not automatically drop lagging players. And this game was released in 2010, not 1910, we should have features like this implemented in the game already (while the developer of this map is doing a great job they are doing something that should already have been done by Blizz 2 years ago).
Edit: LOL just realised I didn't comment on the actual game. IMO, D/Cs should almost always be re-game. Obviously if its a 200/200 army vs a marine or something it should be given to the 200/200 player, but MKP had just come out even, if not ahead in battles where he looked as if he was going to lose all throughout that game, and crazier stuff has happened, so I feel that the regame was appropriate.
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Should have been there bud ... we was really really mad lol
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After I saw MKP drop, I decided that this competition, and professional SC2 competition in general aren't worth my time. We don't have LAN or a savegame feature, two things that have existed for a very long time. Any competition is invalid when such a ridiculous outcome is possible. At this point professional SC2 is a joke.
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Canada16217 Posts
Theirs no reason for GOm to actually release a statement due to the fact that the decision is final and nothing will happen. A close match like that is almost impossible to call yes mkp was down in supply but you have to factor so many things in that it's just impossible to judge correctly so a re-game was the right decision. And if you really wanna take it into account mkp and parting both went for the same styles and almost the same exact engagements happened throughout the early game.
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This where I think a save state feature would be great. Age of Empires II had this feature, where if there was a disconnect each player could select drop, continue, or SAVE and EXIT. Save and exit would create a file where the two players could jump into the game after loading the save state and you could continue.
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On April 08 2012 17:07 SOB_Maj_Brian wrote:
This where I think a save state feature would be great.
I'll be the bitch here.
"The technology just isn't there yet."
Sounds familiar? Yeah ... 8[
The one thing I do when I win the lottery (if I'm ever going to play) is funding an RTS project with Valve. Technology seems to be over at Valve's for the last couple of years.
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This whole incident reminded me of the Jaedong vs Flash power outage match. The difference being is Jaedong was awarded the win which I find very agreeable in the since that Jaedong did such a greedy risky build that ended up paying off and I am pretty sure he was going to win the game (flash had just taken his third but swarm +ling/ultra were going for it and I don't think Flash could have held it) Yes different decision, but a huge decision to be made. Neither answer was going to be right either, for starters the map they played on was a heavily favored terran map and there was no way Flash would let Jaedong get away with that same risky (like super risky, had flash attacked JD would have just died). Had they ruled regame, Jaedong probably would have lost a game he (imo) had won, then the other negative is awarding a win to JD where Flash had no idea what situation Jaedong was in or how behind he was, thought he had a chance and then is told he is getting a loss. He is young, his father went on a rampage and mentally he was fucked now and thus lost the next game in a very lame last game of the series.
Neither answer was right or wrong for that one nor this one, it's just hard to make a case. What if the game had continued and Parting did lose? What if the game had continued and flash had somehow beat Jaedong? We will never know and that is why I do not think this decision will ever be agreed upon by both parties. So either way half of the people or so are going to be pist at the ragame, then the other half will be happy, then vice versa if the other player is awarded a win, the other half are pist off and claim their player was cheated. It honestly sucks for both players especially as they dont' get the credit they deserve which is very unfortunate.
I say this because that Jaedong vs Flash, this was during the time when Flash was seen as unbeatable and Jaedong was seen as an underdog, yet he was winning and was beating Flash in what people thought was impossible, but due to the power outage he got a lot of hate and blablabla, I feel bad for MKP because same thing is happening, he's going to get a lot of hate for something that isn't it fault, and his 4 kill (I believe?) isn't going to get the good credit it deserves and a lot of people see it as a tainted final and he should have lost. It's very unfortunate 
Then there is this game that happened, an epic long game and then a disconnect. I personally do not think the game was over completely, but most likely was going to be a parting victory and the people saying the protoss was hovering over the production facilities I wonder if they realize it was only 3 on the bottom of natural or wharever those 3 rax were placed. It's not like the toss was in the main killing shit, he was destroying 3 rax at the bottom of the natural below the ramp. If there is one thing that bugged me is when people are saying false information about "camping his production!" When they weren't.
There was a 30 supply food difference (favoring parting) and there was obviously a bunch of units being made at all the rax MKP had. The thing is we dont' know how much was being made (if it was only 1 marauder for isntance and the rest of the rax were not making anything which was unlikely, but if that were the case Parting should have the victory). I wish they had shown us the replay like Kespa did by showing everyone the game of JD vs Flash while thinking of the correct decision to make.
If we could have seen the production of MKP, and looked around the map, reinforcments, was there about to be another warp in cycle? Did he just use it? Were terran's units about to come out? How close? how many? There are so many things I would have liked to see to know for sure if I thought MKP could come back or not. But from what I saw I do think he wasn't out and might have held but again I have no idea.
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Unless David Ting is blatantly lying, LAN had nothing to do with it and wouldn't of helped. It was a DHCP issue.
"For those who are looking for the technical explanation, we have a complex network infrastructure at the event. According to our network engineer, the symptoms (backstage systems) that we saw even after that main stage lost connectivity seem to point to a DHCP related issue. The way things appear to be set up, Cosmo created different network blocks for the different sections / areas. For instance, the SC2 stage area is in a different network block as the master control (SC2). The master control is shared with the LoL stage and tables. The master control (LoL) is on another block, etc. etc.
What I'm suspecting is that the SC2 stage machine that had issues reached its DHCP half-life and was trying to renewing its IP with the DHCP server. This is likely the cause of the disconnect.
In layman's term, there is protection on the hotel network that disallows connections that have over 24 hour duration. We likely have hit a glitch that caused the disconnect. I will talk to Blizzard tomorrow regarding adding a reconnect option."
-David Ting
source: link
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On April 08 2012 17:21 jacen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 17:07 SOB_Maj_Brian wrote:
This where I think a save state feature would be great. I'll be the bitch here. "The technology just isn't there yet." Sounds familiar? Yeah ... 8[ The one thing I do when I win the lottery (if I'm ever going to play) is funding an RTS project with Valve. Technology seems to be over at Valve's for the last couple of years.
Valve must have come a long way since the shockingly bad HL2 netcode then...
Also it's not like they're short of money, not that an average lottery win would even cover a modern hit game.
The technology is absolutely there, replays rebuild the game state from the player actions, making it playable from there is not a technical limitation, it just means combining some of the replay and game code, whats more adding it in would be the mostly same code required to the most requested "watch replays with friends" feature, what's more it would naturally play out first person to the disconnect point.
Blizzard seem keen to focus on things they can take money for right now, which is kinda why esports is falling into the hands of that LoL rubbish.
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That game was over. I can't believe they rematched it. Went to bed in the long pause that followed.
Anyway you are never 100% sure that someone will win. But if they have practically won it it should be awarded to them anyway. Better to rob MKP of his 1% chance than to rob parting of his 99% win chance. Exactly where does that percentage stop to make sense? Obviously long before 50/50 but at least not when someone is this much ahead.
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On April 08 2012 14:53 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:37 Azzur wrote:
There is a clear precedence in Starcraft - a re-game is to be issued unless the game is 100% won for a side. There is no doubt Parting was winning, but the referee ruled that it was not a 100% decision.
In many sporting matches, the referee has to make tough calls and we don't clamour for sporting bodies to release the reasons regarding the decision making. This is true.. very true. The question you need to ask yourself is not "Was parting really very far ahead?". Instead, you need to ask yourself "was there a chance in a million that, with Parting playing normally, MKP could have won the game?" if the answer is yes, then there needs to be a rematch. Even if the chance is very very small.
This is my thought process, if it was anyone except a top tier terran i would of said Paring won EZ-PZ but with MKP you really never know what to expect. Its really just an unfortunate thing to happen, had Parting been declared winner who knows ST probably would of won GSTL instead.
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What I'm curious about was where were Parting's forces positioned. The deciding engagement was won by Parting by the skin of his teeth, if the warp in where he gained the advantage (iirc it was like 3 marauders vs. like 2 or 3 HT's and a handful of zealots on the map). If Parting warped in at home, MKP may have been able to clean up the mess just outside of his base, but likely would have taken significant damage fending off.
However if there was a forward pylon and the reinforcing units were anywhere near where that huge battle that Parting barely won MKP likely had no way to comeback if that were the case.
I honestly would have given Parting the nod if that were me, but after thinking about this off and on for the past couple of minutes, there were a lot of variables that we don't necessarily no, such as the positioning of Parting's standing forces.
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On April 08 2012 14:08 LastDance wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:04 MonkSEA wrote:On April 08 2012 13:52 Bagration wrote:
I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1. Blizzard didn't ruin GSTL Season 1. It was reported that the computer disconnected from the Internet, not SC2 disconnecting. I'd rather believe into the authorities then thinking of it as a conspiracy. The response after thinking about it was a little weird, I mean.. Clearly parting was ahead and about to win. It wasn't Blizzard, nor was it Prime or Star Tale. It was GOM's referees. If they were playing on LAN, this would not have happened, that is why he is blaming Blizzard. I was super pumped about the series up until that point of drop. After the drop, everything became a 'what if'. Like he said, it was lose-lose from that single point. if only we had LAN. you could tell from MKP's expression after his win vs parting that the win was somewhat hollow
the drop would have still happened with LAN... It wasn't b.net 2.0 or the internet. It was the computer.
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EPT
