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OK. So I've ranted about this before. But I really want people familiar with hiring for CS to hear me out. I know I would prefer living experience in CA, but the cost is so substantial... I want to try to figure out if I did undergrad only what the impact would be of...
Attending UCSD and getting a degree in CS. Cost is around 120k. I would probably end up with like 15k loans, parents would graciously take care of rest.
VERSUS
Attending University of Idaho, Oklahoma State, University of Alabama, ASU, on a full ride. No cost of living. No tuition. Some have a small book stipend, some do not. But that's rather irrelevant.
I've been trying to figure out the actual monetary benefit of UCSD in terms of employment. So I'm going to lay out a few scenarios.
Let's say....
A) I get a degree in CS from UCSD, return to California, and attempt to get hired with a BS only...
B) I get a degree from a full ride institution, go somewhere good/great for grad school, attempt to get hired.
C) I get a degree in CS from Northeastern, return to California, and attempt to get hired with BS only (40k savings)
D) I get a degree from a full ride institution and attempt to get hired undergrad...
E) I want to do grad, but only after getting hired with a BA out of UCSD
I've been attempting to assess, in a purely monetary basis, whether there would be return on the UCSD degree over the others. It's hard to tell. I've heard conflicting things about MS in CS. (some say it's hard to get hired because of overqualification...)
What would you guys do? If you have experience in tech (COUGH HAJI COUGH) might be good to tell me your experiences with attempting to get hired from these situations.
There are other quality of living issues as well. Although I am probably an "east coast person" in terms of demeanor, any of the CA schools would certainly be reasonable. But Alabama, etc, would take absolutely huge adjustment, and may not be as great. Furthermore, networking opportunities are admittedly more limited...
Essentially there are huge issues in terms of prestige and difficulty of education, and cost of living, and quality of living, and grad school prospects.
Camera!
A 550D is mine. If it wasn't raining I would have done photography today... I'll mess around with the stock lens for a bit, then try to pick up a 50 prime. I intended to post pics today, but what with pouring rain and all it was tough.
 
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A lot of people are going to tell you that UCSD is the way to go because of the rep it has. It really comes down to two things.
1. Do you plan on going to grad school? (which it sounds like, you do)
2. Do you plan on getting an internship during your schooling.
With number 1, it doesn't matter what school you go to. All the matters is where you go to grad school. Tons of people go to small time colleges then go to a major university to get their masters degree. So save the money.
With number 2, UCSD is most likely the preferred choice. If you want to get summer internships, its really important what school your going to and what impression you make. Internships can also help with getting a job with only a BA.
It doesn't make a difference in getting a job when you have only a BA what school you went to, as long as it was a proper college, not one of those tech schools.
I would say that if you want an internship, UCSD is the way to go. Otherwise, go the cheap route and get a grad degree some where else.
Tons of people change their major within the first year, so there is that to consider.
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Can I ask why you want to go to grad studies? A masters in cs is generally not very useful, unless u want to do research or teaching
also finding a job in CS is incredibly easy, probably the easiest field to find a job in
and of course $120000 is a loot of money
for those 3 reasons id go with Idaho
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if you already program and plan on doing side projects and/or internships beyond what is required from courses, then go to UCSD
however, if you don't then I think there's definite risk of you burning your parent's money
make yourself valuable + get the degree and you'll be compensated accordingly
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
generally agree with hellsan631.
I'll add that it's considerably easier to find employment when you're local, both in terms of the opportunities available and the stress/hassle levels.
also, no matter where you go, develop a habit of contributing to open source / making real, useful things (ie not just your coursework) in order to really make yourself attractive to employers.
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Third what hellsan and Haji said. Where you do your undergrad work isn't all that important except in terms of connections, be they internship or job placements afterward.
CS is probably one of the least useful subjects to have a Masters in. In my particular field (game development) it is probably worse than useless 9 times out of 10, for the overqualification reason. I would plan on either a BS or going all the way to a PhD. That's a decision that is probably better made once you've been in college for a few years, see how it works, how burned out you are, how interested you are in doing research, etc.
And also like haji said, make stuff. Being able to show a piece of something that works that you wrote is huge in this industry. It does not have to be big or fancy, but coding is a demonstrated skill. You should demonstrate it. Even class projects from capstone classes are ok, if you can point to specific pieces of them that you wrote that are cool and relevant to what you're applying for, but doing extra stuff is better.
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If you plan to go to grad school and want to get into a reasonably prestigious one, you'll have a very hard time doing so if you go to lesser name schools like the ones you have scholarships to. However, graduating with 15k debt in loans hardly sets you up for a good situation to start grad school, so I wouldn't recommend that route.
Instead, I would spend your first two years at one of those schools (maybe ASU? go party your ass off) and then look to transfer to a better school if things are going well academically (if not, then you probably didn't belong at UCSD anyway). Hopefully with this plan you can convince your parents to cover your 3rd and 4th years at whatever school you transfer to, allowing you to graduate with no debt from the bigger name school.
On CS masters: a CS masters alone is really only useful if you did your undergrad at a crappy university, since doing a masters at a better school essentially puts you in a more favorable bracket for both the job and phd market. Another reason that doesn't apply to your case: some people that live out of the US get a masters at a US university in order to get a job afterwards in the US.
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I think the majors and minors you will take are much more important than the university you graduate from.
The issue of over-qualification is definitely true depending on your major, a company would rather employ a cheaper BS for coding for example.
I've personally chosen databases and accounting as majors, coding and project management as minors, it provides a lot of opportunities. It really makes a difference in the projects. By understanding the business concepts, I can fully grasp the customers requests, suggest improvements, discuss requirements etc. I do not merely execute tasks I'm ordered, and it makes work a lot more satisfying.
Choose your majors well. You really don't want to get a MS in CS to end up as a system administrator in a small company, or work at the help desk trying to troubleshoot moronic issues.
If you really want to graduate from UCSD, then do your masters degree there once you got your BS from a cheap place.
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Speaking as someone who recently graduated from UCSD in the chem/biochem department Ph. D. program and has a roomate who is in the CS Ph. D. program I can offer some advice
For you undergraduate degree people rarely care where your BS comes from (Do not get a BA in CS it is not a competitive degree). When you apply for a job in industry, your contacts are generally more important.
My roomate said that Idaho, Oklahoma, Alabama, and ASU don't really have notable CS programs while UCSD does (not to mention the supercomputing center). He also said that most people coming into the grad program at UCSD have to take some remedial undergraduate classes at UCSD to catch up (which indicates that UCSD has a stronger program than the average school that is accepted into their grad program).
If you intend to do post graduate studies, I would recommend going to UCSD. It will help you be more competitive in getting into a good graduate school. If you don't then it doesn't matter much. Any school should be able to place you into industry.
It's a hard choice so I'll tell you my story because I had a similar choice about 11 years ago.
I could have gone to a local school (University of Maryland or St. Mary's of Maryland for about 5k total for my degree or a few other schools for much more (around 95-110k)). My father told me that he had set aside 100k for my education and I could use it in any way I wanted (meaning I could pocket the 90k at the end of school if I went local). I ended up choosing University of Richmond because it had good programs in all the fields I was looking for (Biochem, CS, and Music). At the time I wanted to be a Marine Biology/Music major, but I ended up as Biochem major with like 5 minors (bio and chem were separate minors because I only needed a few extra classes for each, minored in CS and also in Russian and Music).
I was really glad I made the choice to go to Richmond because I had opportunities there that I would have never had at the other schools. Even though I rarely use my CS skills (and haven't used my russian or music in years) I find every now and then that those skills come in handy. I did really well and had my pick of graduate programs to choose from (could have gone to Yale, Duke, UNC, or UCSD for graduate studies). I picked UCSD for a number of reasons, the most important being that they seemed to have a collaborative culture and were working on newer projects that had more relevance to me.
Unfortunately the experience was disappointing. I already knew half the information in most of the grad classes and I found graduate work to be extremely unrewarding in terms of learning new skills (my boss was very inflexible and imposed his agenda over everything else even if that meant delaying graduation). Suffice to say I was not happy with my graduate studies compared to undergraduate even though I was dead set on getting a Ph. D. coming well prepared out of undergrad.
So what do I recommend after that long blowhard story? You should choose to go to the school that will give you the most options down the road. The more options you have to choose from, the less chance you will become stuck doing something you don't like. It sounds like UCSD is your best option here for CS. If you have any interest at all in doing graduate work then it sounds like it is clearly the best choice.
I just realized I didn't even address the scenarios you are worried about. Here is my input
A) I get a degree in CS from UCSD, return to California, and attempt to get hired with a BA only...
A BA in CS is worthless, you must get a BS. With a BS you should expect a starting salary of 60-75k coming out of UCSD.
B) I get a degree from a full ride institution, go somewhere good/great for grad school, attempt to get hired.
This is possible, but the programs at these schools are unlikely to prepare you fully for a good/great grad school. You should consider doing internships/summer programs in the CS field outside of your degree to help boost your chances of getting into a good grad school. An MS is not worth much more than a BS, starting salary in the 70-90k range. A Ph. D. on the other hand is 110k+. That being said, many people with a Ph. D. spend a lot of time wandering from school to school doing postdoc work (some 10 years plus) which generally pays awfully (like 40-60k). If you get hired as a Ph. D. for a private company or as a tenure track professor, you are virtually set for life.
C) I get a degree in CS from Northeastern, return to California, and attempt to get hired with BA only (40k savings)
Didn't see anything in the OP about Northeastern, don't know much about the school but it has a good reputation. Again, must get a BS if you go there.
D) I get a degree from a full ride institution and attempt to get hired undergrad...
This option would be equivalent to getting the degree from UCSD, so if you know you are going to stop at BS, I wouldn't bother paying through the nose for your education.
E) I want to do grad, but only after getting hired with a BA out of UCSD
This is a career track that is an option most people don't consider. It is rare to find a company that will let you go to school while working for them to improve your education (unless they really value your employment). If you are talking about going to work for a few years after college, then applying for grad school once you have some money, that is actually pretty common. Things like scoring well on the GRE tests and entrance exams become a bit more difficult when you have been away from school for a while, but it's not as bad as it sounds. Industry experience can help in your graduate applications, but I wouldn't say it would give you an advantage over applying right out of undergrad unless you did no internships etc.
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My best advice is avoid the debt and financial burden to your parents. A lot of people stress going to a "good school", but that's mostly for "good connections" imo. The education, especially regarding tech, is pretty much the same wherever, the teaching and grading may be different but the core info should be more or less the same. It's true though that prestigious schools will often lead you down a road where you actually meet important people, who have great jobs to offer to people they know.
Getting a job afterwards is gonna have a lot to do with your resume and portfolio more than which school in particular you have chosen. Having real functional code is really important - it's so important that you can get hired with a portfolio and no education if you can clearly demonstrate your coding prowess. So the real reason you're going to school is to be able to have a pimpin' code stock to show to potential employers.
A better question would be; what will your parents help you with, if you save them 90k by picking a school with full coverage? Would that make your learning experience easier/better? Will you not receive something equivalent from them - and if not, do you feel like you're a "networking guy" who can take advantage of the social connections in a way that is worth the financial burden to yourself and family?
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On March 28 2012 17:02 Excomm wrote:
(Do not get a BA in CS it is not a competitive degree).
I've never even heard of such a thing. You can seriously get a Bachelor of Arts in Computer Science? I have a BS in CS and probably couldn't stop myself from laughing if someone told me they had a BA in it.
Also, grad school should be far from your mind at this point. The number of people who change their minds about grad school while in undergrad is huge. Just do your best in your first few years and consider whether you want to get out or go back for more when you're in your 3rd/4th year.
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EDIT:
You also have to be at least a little careful about free rides. If you do go for a free ride at a crappy place - you still need reference letters from their crappy CS faculties so you can actually get in a good graduate school (say, using the top 10~20 of this list: http://www.shanghairanking.com/SubjectCS2011.html). If the faculty at a free ride is just absolutely HORRIBLE, you might not want to go there. The good thing is that you seem to have a lot of different free rides, so perhaps you can window shop a bit.
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Are your parents going to simply give you that money if you don't attend the more expensive institution? If they're just going to pocket it and not give it to you, it makes very little difference to you what the cost is (15k in loans is pocketchange for a CS major).
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On March 28 2012 18:10 EternaLLegacy wrote:
Are your parents going to simply give you that money if you don't attend the more expensive institution? If they're just going to pocket it and not give it to you, it makes very little difference to you what the cost is (15k in loans is pocketchange for a CS major).
Your parents' money are NOT free money.
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Uh UCSD has by far the best / coolest SC club in the country. Go there. First SC college club ever, founded by yours truly. Be a part of history, make the right choice! 
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It helps to know what you actually want to do when you leave school
for example, if you wanna be a trading local, you might aswell drop out and leave now haha
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From a purely monetary standpoint, I think the extra cost of attending UCSD is justified for the following reasons:
1) A bachelor's from UCSD is plenty sufficient to land you a decent job (provided that your GPA + work experience is good enough)
2) Closer proximity to major tech hubs will also help you land jobs. Nearby companies will recognize UCSD as a reputable school.
3) 15k in loans will not be a big deal when you consider that the average income in this industry is like 60k. If you do decently well in school, you can easily get a starting salary of 70k+.
4) Doing a master's takes extra time and money. Also, it's not exactly easy to get into a grad program from a reputable school.
On March 28 2012 17:39 ShadowDrgn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 17:02 Excomm wrote:
(Do not get a BA in CS it is not a competitive degree). I've never even heard of such a thing. You can seriously get a Bachelor of Arts in Computer Science? I have a BS in CS and probably couldn't stop myself from laughing if someone told me they had a BA in it.
At UC Berkeley, there are two CS programs
1) Electrical Engineering and Computer Science (EECS). This gives a BS.
2) Letters and Sciences Computer Science (L&S CS). This gives a BA.
It doesn't matter which of the two you get, the important coursework is basically the same. I don't think the companies will actually care which one you get, at least not nearly as much as the school and the GPA.
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I see that there are opinions that are exactly opposite to what I'm about to say, but to me there are only a handful of universities from which a bachelors degree carries anymore weight than one from anywhere else. UCSD isn't among them.
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On March 28 2012 19:38 Slithe wrote:
It doesn't matter which of the two you get, the important coursework is basically the same. I don't think the companies will actually care which one you get, at least not nearly as much as the school and the GPA.
The major difference between BA and BS degrees is taking calculus 2 (or whatever the equivalent course covering mutivariable calculus is). Taking the course early (along with Linear Algebra) will help immensely in advanced classes in many majors junior and senior year.
A BS in general will land higher starting salaries compared to a BA, but in a field like computer science having a BA will likely make you unqualified for a lot of starting positions coming out of college.
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I have dreams where my parents offer to cover 100 thousand dollars of my school costs, then when I wake up my underwear is all sticky.
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Save the money man. Where you go to school hardly matters at all. If you're truly serious about your career focus on your coding/portfolio. Not only will you be saving your parents money (in some ways yourself too) and yourself money but you will probably have an easier time academically at Idaho. Most of your actual education comes from your own desire to study and learn things. Don't waste your money.
Plus if you're actually worried about "what school you went to" worry about where you go to for graduate school. Odds are when you're done with school you will realize that you just want a decent job to support your life.
Stay out of debt. Stay out of debt. Stay out of debt. Stay out of debt. Stay out of debt.
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15k for student loans should not even factor into your decision. With the interest rate of those things it's some of the cheapest debt you can have. Your monthly payment will end up being something like $100/mo or even less, not significant enough to base a major life decision on. Take a visit to the schools you are interested in and get a feel for the campus style, culture, groups, etc and then make your decision. When it comes down to it, unless you are going very far on either end of the spectrum, undergrad is undergrad is undergrad and the most important part is the atmosphere around you. You are going to be more motivated to do well if you love your surroundings than if otherwise.
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On March 28 2012 17:39 ShadowDrgn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 17:02 Excomm wrote:
(Do not get a BA in CS it is not a competitive degree). I've never even heard of such a thing. You can seriously get a Bachelor of Arts in Computer Science? I have a BS in CS and probably couldn't stop myself from laughing if someone told me they had a BA in it. Also, grad school should be far from your mind at this point. The number of people who change their minds about grad school while in undergrad is huge. Just do your best in your first few years and consider whether you want to get out or go back for more when you're in your 3rd/4th year.
I have a BA in Theoretical Physics. A lot of the older colleges in Ireland and the UK (like Oxford, Cambridge etc.) give out BAs for Maths/Science/CS courses.
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On March 28 2012 21:36 Zorkmid wrote:
I see that there are opinions that are exactly opposite to what I'm about to say, but to me there are only a handful of universities from which a bachelors degree carries anymore weight than one from anywhere else. UCSD isn't among them.
I agree with this, and agree with the notion that, unless going into a field where the school you go to REALLY matters (law school, med school, etc) you go with the option that is cheapest. That means for both you and your parents—don't saddle them with debt to go college in Cali for what essentially amounts to the living experience.
I really know shit about CS in general, but I highly, highly doubt that UCSD, even if it is recognized as a top school in that field, is such a huge jump in terms of education and job prospects that it makes it worthwhile to eat $120k. If you parents are that generous, imagine what you'll get as a graduation gift if you don't hand them a bill for $120k.
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On March 28 2012 23:45 epoc wrote:
Whats CS?
Counterstrike. It's a first person shooter of terrorists vs. counterterrorists developed by Valve. I'd suggest studying in Israel or Pakistan depending on which side you want to play.
I'm from San Diego, make sure you like UCSD if you're going to pay to go there. I personally thought it was dregs. The opportunities available however there do add reasons to do so, though who knows where the CS field will be in four years after you get out of college really?
If you are going post-graduate go to the highest ranked free-ride school. It's not worth the money. If you can get a solid program for free, do it. There exists CS work experience opportunities locally no matter where you are (Computers are pervasive, and the internet is vast.). What kind of person are you? Will you enjoy college where you choose? Those are also important questions to ask yourself.
For personal reference, I am a UC Irvine undergraduate in Business Economics (I will be attending law school next year). I have quite a few friends in the CS and Electrical Engineering fields who have a wide range of outcomes from doing so. None of them are going to professional school, however.
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Yeah. Thanks guys. Now even more torn...
Btw, I accidentally put BA in first post
I am planning on getting a BS :|
In terms of grad school, I don't necessarily want to go, I just want to get employed. If I was in a field where a masters was better, I think i'd take the cheaper option more readily. But a MS in CS seems like an awkward degree. Grad school is also really expensive, (I've heard it can be free some places but...) and I don't partciularly want to do research. So I was trying to figure out from a pay perspective whether doing undergrad at Idaho, ASU etc and then going to do a master's, or trying to get hired right then, was the best option...
As much as I tend to conflict with my parents, I just don't want to waste their money. Call me crazy, but I'd like to pay back a lot of the cost if I go to UCSD, cause i feel bad about it :|
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You put far, far to much value on the name of the school for employment. XD Even for an Ivy or something, it's not that big of a deal. In the real world, people mostly just care about whether or not you can do your job. Forget this bullshit about namebrand employment opportunities and make your decision based on something else. Whenever you get to school focus on learning practical things and writing real code, doing stuff outside of class, and joining some research project or club involving writing something applicable. Then you can demonstrate to a potential employer how awesome you are. Of course location and admissions difficulty (prestige) matters for things like school-based recruitment and such, but that only helps you for your very first job. After that you're on your own, so I wouldn't consider that really either.
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save 100k and go to the out of state schools.
That's a ridiculous amount of money. UCSD isn't even that good to justify paying that much.
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Calgary25990 Posts
Don't know what it's like in the US. In Canada it barely matters where you went to school. Going to a good school will give you good networking opportunities, but not $100k worth and nothing you couldn't overcome.
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On March 29 2012 02:14 Chill wrote:
Don't know what it's like in the US. In Canada it barely matters where you went to school. Going to a good school will give you good networking opportunities, but not $100k worth and nothing you couldn't overcome.
This reminds me of another related consideration you should be checking out. For example, the University of Toronto has a bit of prestige, but the competition there is completely insane. A 3.0 GPA there is like a 4.0 GPA most other places.
If you're looking to go to grad school, you'd need a GPA around 3.8 most likely. It may be the case that UCSD is a bit like the U of T in terms of difficulty. Grad schools aren't going to look at the name of the school on your application, just your GPA.
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Unless you have specific connections that will allow you to have a better educational experience (summer lab work, side work with professors) or the school has a rare or outstanding department, no UC is worth it for an out of state student. At least not from a purely educational standpoint. SD would be a lovely place to spend 4 years though.
Haven't heard of SD having a standout undergrad CS program. Not sure what would distinguish it from any of the other major UCs, or SJSU's for that matter, let alone any other major public university.
On March 29 2012 01:35 RedJustice wrote:
(1) Even for an Ivy or something, it's not that big of a deal. In the real world, people mostly just care about whether or not you can do your job. ... (2) Of course location and admissions difficulty (prestige) matters for things like school-based recruitment and such, but that only helps you for your very first job. After that you're on your own
Statement (1) isn't really accurate, statement (2) is closer. There are numerous groups in large tech companies (Oracle, for instance) which will only hire programmers with a specific degree level from a specific pool of a dozen schools or so. You can argue that the signalling effect associated with "prestigious education" isn't worth the cost, but all things equal, it's a decent positive benefit.
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is this blog about Counter Strike or not? I'm really confused.
User was warned for this post
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On March 29 2012 03:19 BenBuford wrote:
is this blog about Counter Strike or not? I'm really confused.
Computer Science.
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On March 28 2012 21:59 Excomm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 19:38 Slithe wrote:
It doesn't matter which of the two you get, the important coursework is basically the same. I don't think the companies will actually care which one you get, at least not nearly as much as the school and the GPA. The major difference between BA and BS degrees is taking calculus 2 (or whatever the equivalent course covering mutivariable calculus is). Taking the course early (along with Linear Algebra) will help immensely in advanced classes in many majors junior and senior year. A BS in general will land higher starting salaries compared to a BA, but in a field like computer science having a BA will likely make you unqualified for a lot of starting positions coming out of college.
In my experience, I have not seen differences in hiring based on BA or BS, but perhaps the policies are different for other companies. Pretty much everything about your proficiency will be decided at the interview, as your resume is only a first level filter. Also, the fact that someone has a BA doesn't preclude the possibility that they've taken calculus 2.
Also, I will mention a funny difference between the two degrees at Berkeley. As you said, the BA doesn't require calculus 2. However, the BS doesn't require an algorithms course (the likely reason is that Electrical Engineering and Computer Science are combined under one program, so they don't want to enforce the algs course on the EE students). Between those two requirements, I'd say algorithms is more important.
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30k is in state cost of attendance
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On March 29 2012 03:17 Grantiere wrote:Unless you have specific connections that will allow you to have a better educational experience (summer lab work, side work with professors) or the school has a rare or outstanding department, no UC is worth it for an out of state student. At least not from a purely educational standpoint. SD would be a lovely place to spend 4 years though. Haven't heard of SD having a standout undergrad CS program. Not sure what would distinguish it from any of the other major UCs, or SJSU's for that matter, let alone any other major public university. Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 01:35 RedJustice wrote:
(1) Even for an Ivy or something, it's not that big of a deal. In the real world, people mostly just care about whether or not you can do your job. ... (2) Of course location and admissions difficulty (prestige) matters for things like school-based recruitment and such, but that only helps you for your very first job. After that you're on your own Statement (1) isn't really accurate, statement (2) is closer. There are numerous groups in large tech companies (Oracle, for instance) which will only hire programmers with a specific degree level from a specific pool of a dozen schools or so. You can argue that the signalling effect associated with "prestigious education" isn't worth the cost, but all things equal, it's a decent positive benefit.
To be honest, having worked for a small company and being involved in the HR part even as a programmer I can only say fresh graduates offer the best laughs in interviews. They mostly suck and anything they know, if they do know anything, is quite useless in the real world. I don't even care where they went to school. They need to prove they know some basics and that they can think - we don't require a lot of experience so mostly want people with a base and enthusiasm.
There are a few rare gems that do stand out but most of their knowledge comes from treating their future job as a hobby, on top of school. If someone says they've been programming something since they were 10 or tinkering with PGAs at home and show they gained some knowledge out of that, that's a sure hire, provided they can adjust to the company.
The incredibly small amount of programming you get to do at school is no replacement for experience, even as a hobby. Since we're small, people get to do a lot of stuff so a well oiled brain is mandatory, lines/hour is not relevant.
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Why do you think universities like ASU and Idaho are offering you so much money? Because nobody with a modicum of intelligence wants to go to those universities. They are simply incomparable to the education you will receive at a school like UCSD (or, even better, Stanford and Princeton). People will talk about how education is "mostly self-directed anyway" and how there "isn't that much of a difference", but I strongly urge you to disregard those who do so - the difference in the rigor and depth of the education you will receive is much, much more valuable than the paltry sum you can save by going to a bad school.
Without a high GPA from a good school, you have absolutely no chance of landing an interview at one of the top tech companies, such as Facebook, Palantir, Google, or Microsoft. Once you do get an interview, you will have to be able to demonstrate your competence in computer science--and I imagine it will be very difficult to build either the knowledge or the ability to cope with stress under limited time at a university like ASU.
On March 29 2012 00:49 Froadac wrote:
Yeah. Thanks guys. Now even more torn...
Btw, I accidentally put BA in first post
I am planning on getting a BS :|
In terms of grad school, I don't necessarily want to go, I just want to get employed. If I was in a field where a masters was better, I think i'd take the cheaper option more readily. But a MS in CS seems like an awkward degree. Grad school is also really expensive, (I've heard it can be free some places but...) and I don't partciularly want to do research. So I was trying to figure out from a pay perspective whether doing undergrad at Idaho, ASU etc and then going to do a master's, or trying to get hired right then, was the best option...
As much as I tend to conflict with my parents, I just don't want to waste their money. Call me crazy, but I'd like to pay back a lot of the cost if I go to UCSD, cause i feel bad about it :|
I strongly advise against attending a school like ASU or Idaho simply for financial reasons. Given the increasing popularity of CS, if you went to those schools, your degree and education wouldn't stand a chance in Silicon Valley (or probably anywhere else in the US either) compared to graduates from UW, CMU, Princeton, Stanford, etc. As it is a degree from UCSD is already suboptimal; no need to ruin your future prospects any more than necessary.
Moreover, it has been found that a master's degree is very cost-efficient. If you want a high salary, I would recommend getting a MS in CS somewhere prestigious after your undergraduate education.
Finally, your viable internship opportunities will be exceptionally limited at schools like ASU and Idaho.
On March 29 2012 05:36 dakalro wrote:
To be honest, having worked for a small company and being involved in the HR part even as a programmer I can only say fresh graduates offer the best laughs in interviews. They mostly suck and anything they know, if they do know anything, is quite useless in the real world. I don't even care where they went to school. They need to prove they know some basics and that they can think - we don't require a lot of experience so mostly want people with a base and enthusiasm.
There are a few rare gems that do stand out but most of their knowledge comes from treating their future job as a hobby, on top of school. If someone says they've been programming something since they were 10 or tinkering with PGAs at home and show they gained some knowledge out of that, that's a sure hire, provided they can adjust to the company.
The incredibly small amount of programming you get to do at school is no replacement for experience, even as a hobby. Since we're small, people get to do a lot of stuff so a well oiled brain is mandatory, lines/hour is not relevant.
That may be the case in Romania. However, undergraduate education at top computer science universities in America is exceptionally rigorous and difficult. If you go to a no-name party school and graduate with a worthless CS degree, yes, it is likely that you will be one of those hilariously bad applicants. However, that is most certainly not the case at top universities.
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I am a junior at the University of Florida right now -- I'm getting a degree in math, but I'm going to work in CS when I graduate. If a math degree is fine, there's no way a BA in CS isn't fine.
UCSD is a very good school, (it's better than mine, and all of my friends and I are working or interning at Microsoft/Google/Facebook) and if you want to work at the Googles and the Microsofts of the world when you graduate, I think going to UCSD would give you the best opportunity for that. The advantage you would have going to a Princeton compared to UCSD for getting those internships and job offers is a lot smaller than the advantage UCSD has over an Idaho. I could be wrong about this, but I imagine Idaho, and similar schools, don't have Googles and Microsofts on their campus recruiting, and that is how you are going to get those internships. (Knowing someone who works at the company is even better, but how do you think they got their job?) Going to a school where the big tech companies don't have people on the ground is going to make life a hell of a lot more difficult.
And if your parents are okay with spending that kind of money on your education, don't feel guilty about potentially wasting it. Just be a sick nerd baller in college and show them that the cost is worth it! You should be proud that they want this for you so badly they're willing to put $100k down. I'm not trying to say that you aren't--you seem to be handling everything very well--I just want to make sure you don't pick a school to do your parents a favor by saving their money.
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$30k a year for undergraduate in-state residency? Holy fuck balls. Did they calculate base on the overpriced dormitary cost or something? Never knew a state college cost so much for in-state residency.
I guess if you're the go-getter type, you'll make it happen whether your parents spent 10k or 100k in your education.
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On March 28 2012 18:15 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 18:10 EternaLLegacy wrote:
Are your parents going to simply give you that money if you don't attend the more expensive institution? If they're just going to pocket it and not give it to you, it makes very little difference to you what the cost is (15k in loans is pocketchange for a CS major). Your parents' money are NOT free money.
Why not? I mean, I guess you can count it as less money they have when they roll over and die in a number of decades and leave you inheritance.
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On March 29 2012 02:33 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 02:14 Chill wrote:
Don't know what it's like in the US. In Canada it barely matters where you went to school. Going to a good school will give you good networking opportunities, but not $100k worth and nothing you couldn't overcome. This reminds me of another related consideration you should be checking out. For example, the University of Toronto has a bit of prestige, but the competition there is completely insane. A 3.0 GPA there is like a 4.0 GPA most other places. If you're looking to go to grad school, you'd need a GPA around 3.8 most likely. It may be the case that UCSD is a bit like the U of T in terms of difficulty. Grad schools aren't going to look at the name of the school on your application, just your GPA.
This is false. Grad schools care about what program you were in. Employers even moreso.
Going to a good school is definitely worth it. Going to a prestigious, rich kid school is not. The best thing you can do right now is focus on what schools get the most companies coming to hire their students. If you're doing college visits, talk to their CS students, if possible. Get a feel for the place from people who aren't trying to sell you a product, but the buyers.
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On March 29 2012 07:36 EternaLLegacy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2012 18:15 Sufficiency wrote:On March 28 2012 18:10 EternaLLegacy wrote:
Are your parents going to simply give you that money if you don't attend the more expensive institution? If they're just going to pocket it and not give it to you, it makes very little difference to you what the cost is (15k in loans is pocketchange for a CS major). Your parents' money are NOT free money. Why not? I mean, I guess you can count it as less money they have when they roll over and die in a number of decades and leave you inheritance.
I honestly do not know what to say about this reply.
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On March 29 2012 06:57 Elurie wrote:
$30k a year for undergraduate in-state residency? Holy fuck balls. Did they calculate base on the overpriced dormitary cost or something? Never knew a state college cost so much for in-state residency.
I guess if you're the go-getter type, you'll make it happen whether your parents spent 10k or 100k in your education.
I assume that is California he is talking about. I am not too surprised.
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edit: Wrong thread sorry.
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EPT
