• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:04
CEST 11:04
KST 18:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format12[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!1Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back12BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Is the larve respawn broken? Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back Serral wins HomeStory Cup 29 Yamato Cup Series Interview with an American 16 Year Old Grandmaster
Tourneys
WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Etiquete rules in Asl? Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
The Experiences We Want and …
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9138 users

Addendum on Map Balance

Blogs > VGhost
Post a Reply
VGhost
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3621 Posts
March 22 2012 18:56 GMT
#1
One of the things that has always intrigued me about Brood War is the ease in which we can render results down to statistics. There is no "team effort" to account for* - or at least, not exactly the way there is in (American) football or baseball, the two sports most subjected to statistical analysis so far. Of course the game itself is hugely complicated, but the prediction - accurate or not for any given game - "Flash will beat Bisu" or "Bisu will beat Action" is not hard to make.

At any rate, I have, on and off for the past couple years, tracked results in some amount of detail; after my first two flailing efforts I was immensely surprised and gratified when Kiante contacted me and asked if I would be willing to write something after Round Three had finished. (Much to my chagrin, I did not manage to get the write-up complete before playoffs started, but it is in this week's news post - by far the least professional piece there, alas.)

However, I imagine the number one question my numbers raise is, "Where did the numbers come from?" That is what I want to attempt to answer here. First of all - which I forgot to mention - an unexpected result "swings" the number at least 4 - from +2 to -2, or maybe more. So what the number I gave represents could be broken down as a chance that the underdog (whichever race it is) will win a game: many were around 1 (positive or negative). A PvT score of -1, for example, would mean that on that map 1 out of 4 Terrans (or a little less: maybe 1 out of 5 or 6) would win as a underdog. A ZvP balance of +0.60 would mean a Zerg underdog would win about 1 out of 6+ times.

As for why those numbers? Trying to judge the actual balance of a map is difficult in all but extreme cases (and even in this case, there were fascinating ZvP results in the minor league which the necessities of making playoffs forbade the A-teams from attempting to duplicate). Another well-known example of the difficulty is Nostalgia: by pure numerical results, one of the most balance maps ever made, but the complaints extended for years and resurface with any mention of the map.

But interpreting how much of any existent balance issues is the problem with the map is difficult. In the first case, any map is used in the context of the existing game (which for Brood War is at this point fixed) and metagame (which as in any competitive endeavor is constantly shifting a little bit at a time). Furthermore, the habits of the Brood War leagues have been to cycle maps fairly quickly - probably too quickly - so that for all but those few maps which receive instant acclaim the sample size to judge their actual quality on is incredibly small - and the results, in large part, depend on the players involved. If we take a map like Battle Royal, which I mentioned above, and by some fluke Flash vs Hyuk is the only matchup played for seven games, Flash will probably win at least four, and leave us with a false impression of the map's balance, at least until we remember how godawful Hyuk is at ZvT when he is not in the OSL Round of 16 (and how that ever happened once, let alone multiple times, is one of the great mysteries of the universe - but I digress).

I want to illustrate the difficulties further by considering the map Electric Circuit, which I nominated as the best map so far of the 2011-2012 SK Planet Proleague (Season 1), in its PvT matchup.

The matchups in the regular season were as follows:

Jaehoon vs Flash
BeSt vs Light
Movie vs fantasy
Dear vs Sea
Dear vs Light
Tyson vs Leta
Bisu vs Canata
M18M vs Flash

With no research and no "context", I would favor (in order) Flash, BeSt, fantasy, Sea, Dear, Tyson, Bisu, Flash and expect a final record of 4-4. Taking Sea's slump into account, I would favor Dear in both games: 5-3. As it happened, M18M was able to pull off an upset (by any account), while Flash and fantasy won their "obviously favored" games, for a final record of 6-2.

And yet, my (current) attempt at statistical analysis suggests this map is Terran-favored. The only clear evidence I have for this is that Movie "should have" won his game (in my opinion): did he "throw it away" or did the map prevent him finishing his advantage? Add in the fact that Light, of all Terrans, with remarkably solid if uninspired play, almost beat BeSt. What my current evaluation turns on is an (over-?)reliance on individual game probabilities - and a few quirks of results along the way.

I guessed going in that the method which would most simply yield accurate results would be to base predictions on record over a previous year. The result - for this map - was that to my surprise, the three "obvious favorites" (Flash, fantasy, Flash) were in fact predicted to lose their individual games (to Jaehoon, Movie, and M18M respectively). Jaehoon going in was 12-5 over the past year against Terran; compared to Flash's 19-11, this made him numerically a favorite. There is no way to account for the fact that Jaehoon beats bad and average Terrans, while losses are mainly to the best players (say, Flash), while Flash's losses are due largely to inherent game imbalance, and are scattered sort randomly - or that half of them were from BeSt and Jangbi. A potential solution would be to use ELO in some form instead, but I do not have access to what me might call "game-time ELO" - and ELO would present the problem of underrating newer players (like Dear). For the other two: Movie is simply much better at PvT than we usually remember; M18M suffered from over-prediction due to a small sample size of games in the last year. The result is that going game-by-game, the predicted result of the 8 games was 8-0 for Protoss. When Terran won two - never mind that it was Flash and fantasy winning the games, or that Flash lost to M18M - this generated a "Terran favored" review for the map.

Which brings us back to my example above: a score of -1.00 came from "underdog" Terrans winning 2 out of 8, or 1 out of 4, games on the map. What to do about it? I am not entirely sure: it is partly a problem with my current modeling which I am going to make an effort to correct: individual predictions are clearly carrying too much weight.

However, there was an additional problem which would be corrected over a larger sample size: the fact is that Electric Circuit has so far seen either excellent TvP players (Flash and fantasy) or terrible TvP players (Light, Sea-in-slump, Leta, Canata). There have not been any "average" or "merely good" TvP Terrans on the map - not that there are many left in the current Proleague. Sea if he un-slumps; firebathero and his new-found skill; maybe TurN or Mind?

At any rate, I hope this gives the curious some further idea of the things I am looking at. One thing I want to look at incorporating is average win probability: on Electric Circuit it came out at 59% for Protoss, which would lead us to expect a 5-3 result over 8 games, and 1 off of that is clearly acceptable.

* I am not ignoring the fact that trying to predict team league results has turned out to be largely a fool's errand so far. It is probably possible, but the amount of work it would take even to narrow down which are the critical areas where we need data to evaluate is immense.

****
#4427 || I am not going to scan a ferret.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
09:00
KungFu Cup 2026 Week 14
CranKy Ducklings23
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 121
StarCraft: Brood War
actioN 171
Killer 110
Sharp 61
ToSsGirL 47
sorry 35
Soma 34
ZergMaN 32
Jaedong 32
EffOrt 28
Bale 18
[ Show more ]
Hm[arnc] 11
Sacsri 9
Mini 1
Dota 2
Fuzer 130
League of Legends
Doublelift921
JimRising 502
Other Games
ceh91580
crisheroes214
XaKoH 151
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2250
BasetradeTV156
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP22
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2157
League of Legends
• Jankos1165
• Stunt428
Upcoming Events
CrankTV Team League
1h 56m
Replay Cast
23h 56m
CrankTV Team League
1d 1h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
RSL Revival
1d 23h
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Dragon vs Hawk
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Bonyth vs Ret
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-13
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W3
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.