• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:30
CEST 09:30
KST 16:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple2BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Grand Finals ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot BW General Discussion BSL Season 23 Syncronization issues and can't find games
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 1 [IPSL] IPSL is Back With Winter 26-27!
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9581 users

Newerth Adventures - ("Bad" Mids Edition) Part 2

Blogs > Seeton
Post a Reply
Seeton
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Australia34 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-27 01:04:07
March 22 2012 13:44 GMT
#1
Videos for todays Blog -



Previous Newerth Adventure Blogs
1500+ Edition
Part 1 - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=321358

Tools
HellGreen's Auto Scene Change application for streaming - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=269995
My Own3d.tv channel - http://www.own3d.tv/Live/259165 - Where i'm streaming all of my gaming to.
My YouTube account - http://www.youtube.com/user/c10fnr?feature=mhee
My Clan - Channel 4 News Team - http://www.c4nt.net
My Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/seeton_
Razer Equipment - Blackwidow Ultimate, Naga Hex

The Game
Tonight I played a few games of HoN with my friends. Due to the games I've played over the past couple of days, I'm going to outly something that can cause players a lot of grief. This is the "Selfish" mid.

Our "Selfish" Players
[image loading]
Valkyrie

[image loading]
Pandamonium - Kangamonium Skin

[image loading]
Wretched Hag

Game 1 Replay - Game ID 83901802
For this game our selfish mid is Valkyrie, he plays against Torturer in mid. It should be noted that Valkyrie is a very good ganking hero with a variable up to 5 second stun via skill shot. Further to this our lanes worked out to have a solid set up stun in BOTH lanes. Our Valkyrie could have successfully ganked from 3 onward with absolutely no issues.

I'd like to put more screenshots in this game, however nothing much actually happens. All lanes exchange blows but do no real damage, and bloodlust comes from Plague Rider on Vindicator just after 10 mins. When bloodlust falls, our Valk is in the well at level 8.

At 11.30 mins he moves out for his first gank. Level 9. Our opposing mid is already 2/0 However the valk then moves back mid and continues farming.

We lose this game as well. However upon reviewing the scoreboard i note that he has actually got the most kill involvements for our team. An interesting point being that it felt (in-game) like he had very little impact on the game.

Game 2 - Replay - Game ID 83904400
This game our mid is Pandamonium. He plays against tremble, by no means an easy hero to best. This game bothered me less than the other games mentioned in this blog. The Panda struggled early and called for a gank, which I obliged. I played Revenant this game and Zedar(Slither) and myself had a pretty successful time in lane against a solo Vindicator.

However it's when someone gets to level 6 as a mid, that they must without excuse gank. Some people cry for wards when they can't gank. Not so in this game. I had placed ward at the rune, and in the jungle to protect us from the jungling Cthuluphant.

[image loading]
Level 6 - Not Ganking

Slither ganks mid again, they get a double tap between them on Monarch and Tremble. The Kangamonium is now level 9 and still hasn't ventured from lane to gank. I will say that this game annoyed me less than the others as we maintained high activity from roaming side lanes to the mid, which ensured the panda got good farm and was able to carry towards late game. Another point is that the side lanes weren't losing their lanes either. at the 12 minute mark the scores are 5-9 in our favour. It's more a factor of staying mid to farm, rather than doing 1-2 roams to gank.

[image loading]
Level 9, Still in mid

The Panda gets a gank attempted on him by both Tremble and Vindicator. He kites them back to the tower, turns it around and kills both of them. Impressive display I might add.

[image loading]
Kangaroo's really can jump!

His first leave of mid game was at 16mins and 44 seconds. He was level 12. Now this is usually a non-factor when you're winning all lanes, which in this particular game we were. However if your team starts viewing you as useless then they start to get down on you. The game is all about trolling, and unfortunately that need for a scapegoat often falls on a team member.

Why people do it makes no sense to me. It makes a lot more sense to me to encourage and help your team, someone who is being ragged on for having a poor game is gonna get in an even worse mood and thus play worse. It's a rather steep spiral. My team in this game started to rag on the Panda player in this game, yet we were winning all lanes and he was farming at 300GPM.

Game 3 - Replay - Game ID 84103666
Our mid this game is Wretched Hag, Int hero with Blink and the ability to carry out late game with sufficient farm. Very gank oriented hero. He mids against pebbles, which means sitting mid is going to be even less effective and put more of an emphasis on ganking. Moreover we have Caige in jungle on Legionnaire leaving me on Berserker to solo bot. All of this points to heavy gank play, ESPECIALLY at bottom.

Granted 5 mins into the game we have no wards up still, this however doesn't mean you can't guess where the rune spawns and gank. The other thing about that is it doesn't mean you can't drop a ward yourself. In HoN a ward is 100 gold (2 Creep Kills), noone is above warding for themselves. 10mins into the game, a Legion ward is STILL yet to be dropped. The Pebbles now has 2 kills and 3 assists.

[image loading]
He did participate in team fights though

A few more team fights erupt early due to the BH and Pebbles having an early window to get on top of everyone, and at 16 mins into the game it's all over due to a non active mid. The point in this particular game is with the circumstances we had, the Hag should have been ganking from level 3+ Ganking is even more important when there is a jungle hero and a solo suicider. If you can ensure the bottom wins while giving the jungle good farm, you basically win the game, regardless.

Conclusion
Believe it or not this post isn't about ragging on selfish mid players. It's more about the perception of the game being won in the middle lane. It's simply not that way at all. The mid lane is usually a position for ganking, but it's also a position for farming in a one on one minimal harass situation. Admittedly the way mid makes decisions can affect the whole game, a player that comes to a losing side lane and successfully ganks provides momentum to the players who are struggling, and slows the players that are winning the lane. Similarly if you have heroes in every lane winning, why not take a bit of the farm for yourself.

I know at this point I'm going to try and keep a more positive outlook on our mid players. Maybe I'll purchase that ward and place it for the mid who's trying to get wards. Maybe I'll roam to mid to try and get the jump on the opponents mid. The one thing I definitely will do in the future is defend the player who is getting ragged on. It's very easy to get down on someone, and it literally affects the whole team.

The only game that was adversely affected by the Mid's decision making was Game 3. Whereby midding against a Pebbles was never going to go well and he should have been more active on the map.

Be positive!!

*
huehuehuehue
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Estonia455 Posts
March 22 2012 14:05 GMT
#2
Mid does not have to gank goddamnit!
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
March 22 2012 15:52 GMT
#3
Was a fun post to read haha I miss HoN... I'm kinda the selfish mid type myself, but moreso because I'm not very good at ganking, and I'm really good at farming and outplaying my mid opponent lol.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
Khazroul
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom206 Posts
March 22 2012 17:21 GMT
#4
I find it a common misconception that the mid hero HAS to gank. Ganks are very helpful if your lane is losing of course, but it depends a lot on the hero you have mid.

Some heroes are very strong for ganking and therefore it would boost their farm while lowering your opponents, but you also have to factor in things like; Who is mid laning against? (If it's a NH or scout, not common but it does happen from time to time) then you definitely want to keep them down on farm rather than potentially wasting time if your gank fails.

Also, this is more community based than strategy, but ganks do often fail because of two main things (there are other factors too).
The first is if your side lanes are not very aware of their map and don't see you go, or even if they see you but back off at random, or aren't quite ready (let's call this miscommunication).

The second is because it's extremely rare to see counterwarding in HoN below the highest levels (not sure why), so although normal wards can be rare too, if the enemy team has them and they see you going to gank, you could lose a level on the hero you're mid against and there is a very slim chance of successfully ganking the lane.

Nice writeups though, and nice to see that you prefer positive feedback in this game than flaming. I can't lie, I've felt anger at players in the game before, but since I agree with you, I tend to keep it to myself as much as I can and just vent anger on skype to buddies or just to myself if I'm alone!
MaV_gGSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1345 Posts
March 22 2012 18:26 GMT
#5
On March 22 2012 23:05 huehuehuehue wrote:
Mid does not have to gank goddamnit!


It doesn't have to but it is tactically correct to place the ganker in a lane that can access the other lanes with ease. Center control is always nice
Life's good :D
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-22 18:34:12
March 22 2012 18:32 GMT
#6
As for your game 3, I'm a low level player and all that but in my experience I find it hard to wander/gank as a squishy hero vs pebbles (or any strong ganker like him) if you don't have a ward. It just seems too easy to get caught by surprise when returning to mid (or leaving if you don't have sight of your opponent mid) without a ward because of the low ground lack of vision (plus not knowing what the rune is). Especially if he leaves for the rune a bit before you and nabs a DD, Haste, or Invis (but especially haste).

Hag can probably handle it somewhat because of blink, but still pebbles can do some serious harm if he catches her away from lane. I agree hag needs to pick up the ward in this situation though.
Logo
Seeton
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Australia34 Posts
March 23 2012 01:34 GMT
#7
I agree with all of the points listed above, the main point i'm trying to raise, is that someone from any lane is capable of ganking. Buy a TP and port from one side lane to the other, then gank mid on your walk back to your lane, or alternatively take the tower.

My biggest gripe was the downer that gets put on players who go mid and don't gank. I think it can make a difference, however losing a game is a 5 man effort. If one of your team mates is struggling, Perhaps lend a hand, stack those jungle camps, let them get the last hits. Bring them back into the game.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 30m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft805
RotterdaM 34
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 3050
Soma 1339
actioN 999
ggaemo 702
Stork 328
Barracks 269
PianO 118
Mong 68
Noble 10
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm253
League of Legends
JimRising 579
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr60
Other Games
PiGStarcraft272
Sick152
Livibee129
ArmadaUGS90
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick552
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 330
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream280
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Letter142
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2392
League of Legends
• Lourlo1186
Upcoming Events
GSL
30m
RotterdaM91
Yamato Cup
7h 30m
BSL Open Qualifier
11h 30m
BSL Open Qualifier
11h 30m
OSC
15h 30m
Replay Cast
16h 30m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 2h
Soma vs Jaedong
WardiTV Weekly
1d 3h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 8h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Online Event
6 days
FEL
6 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.