|
The issue of acceptable and unacceptable language has been called into question many times in the history of the internet. The main issue with the internet is that it presents an anonymous forum to express opinions; the problem is that we do not know if that person truly believes what he says or not. This issue has never been more prevalent in the starcraft community than the past couple days with the issue between Team Evil Geniuses and Orb.
A brief history (as far as I know): Orb was hired to cast for the EG Master's cup when the team received complaints about past racial slurs on Orb's personal channel. There are tons of clips on Reddit that show you exactly what was said, so you can go find that for yourself. Upon receiving these complains, EG decided to fire Orb. You can find EG's official statement from their CEO Alex Garfield HERE. You can also find Orb's official apology HERE.
I strongly suggest reading both before you make an opinion about the whole thing. I want you to keep in mind while reading this that I do not approve of the use of the n-word, and I always feel extremely uncomfortable when I hear it from anyone, regardless of their skin colour. This is also the opinion of a white, middle-aged, straight girl, so keep that in mind while you read.
Honestly I think that firing Orb is extreme. I don't recall him ever dropping an N-bomb while casting, so why is he being punished for past actions? Yes, it is unacceptable language, but he did not give cause to fire him while he was under contracted for EG. Orb is a good caster, which is shown by his ability to separate his personal views from his professional life. Any caster or player will act differently on their personal stream than they will in a professional atmosphere. Sure if EG had known about Orb's past they might not have hired him, but every company has to trust that the casters they hire are responsible enough to be professional while they are representing the company.
Language is only made offensive by the user's intent, paired with the social stigma surrounding a word. Did Orb intend to use the language in a racially offensive manner... no. That said, Orb used the N-word knowing that it was offensive, so he can't be completely innocent in this matter. On the other hand: where do we as a community draw the line on what language is acceptable and what crosses the line? What about the use of Rape or Gay? Those words are part of the gamer vernacular; this does not mean that when someone uses those words they mean it in the clinical sense. These words are not acceptable in society, and I am not recommending that they be used simply because they are part of our vernacular, I'm just wondering where we draw a line.
With the influx of popularity surrounding streaming and attaching a face to an otherwise anonymous social setting, creates a much more personal aspect to gaming. When players stream we see their faces, we watch how they react as they play. Despite this, I do not think that we can ever truly know if those words are being said with intent or not. We must assume that they are at least being said with an understanding of their meaning in society.
I am not defending Orb's use of the N-word, because that is unacceptable. I simply don't think that he should have been punished as harshly as he was. This is my opinion, take it as you will. I do think that Alex wrote a phenomenal post about racism and it is something worth checking out. If there is one thing that you take from reading this, I hope it is this: please THINK before you act, because you never know what the repercussions of it will be without a little forethought.
Thanks,
Zenobia
[EDIT] Alex Garfield has addressed Idra's bad manner already, and when questioned about it on Twitter he responded that ...every time it happens, he hears from me. have you noticed it happening recently? if you have, let me know. If you want to find the full conversation, you can find it HERE.
Also: I strongly suggest that you check out Manifesto7's blog post on all the Orb/EG drama. He shows a couple of really good videos about discrimination and such HERE!!!
It has also been brought to my attention that Orb had initially denied that he used the N-word. So please keep that in mind.
 
|
this is an unconctrolable situation... one that requires some decoding and further thought.
|
Agreed.
I really don't think Alex had a choice in firing Orb, literally half of TL and most of Reddit wanted him punished, and once people started contacting sponsors, EG really had no choice in the matter, since they were backed into a corner by a lynch mob. It didn't help Orb's cause that Alex Garfield had a strong dislike for the racial slur in the first place.
Orb was definitely in the wrong for using language like that and for trying to hide it, but firing him was too harsh a punishment, at least from my POV. However, Alex is CEO for a reason, and I will always respect his decisions.
|
Firing him might be "extreme", but it's also necessary. Keeping Orb would be a PR disaster. EG has multimillion dollar sponsors to consider, none of which want to be associated with a team that hangs onto a personality who has dropped the N bomb on a public stream.
With their sponsors in mind, they've tried to make IdrA clean up his image with a decent amount of success, in spite of the fact that his abrasive personality is a factor in his popularity.
|
He used the N word in a targetted way, was confronted, lied about it and complained about the community trying to slander him, then after it was confirmed that he had done it that time and many other times before, he apologized. In his apology he tried to make excuses for himself, and didn't even admit to the incident that was originally damning. Only after he was officially released from EG did he take the complete blame for the situation. If you're going to make a judgement at least know the whole story.
|
On March 09 2012 15:15 yakitate304 wrote:
Firing him might be "extreme", but it's also necessary. Keeping Orb would be a PR disaster. EG has multimillion dollar sponsors to consider, none of which want to be associated with a team that hangs onto a personality who has dropped the N bomb on a public stream.
With their sponsors in mind, they've tried to make IdrA clean up his image with a decent amount of success, in spite of the fact that his abrasive personality is a factor in his popularity.
Hrm... since you mentioned Idra. I cant remember a specific example, but hasn't he used words like 'faggot' quite frequently in the past? I'm sure the evidence is out there somewhere.
So why doesn't he get the hammer too?
Correct me if I'm wrong.
|
On March 09 2012 15:18 m4gdelen4 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 15:15 yakitate304 wrote:
Firing him might be "extreme", but it's also necessary. Keeping Orb would be a PR disaster. EG has multimillion dollar sponsors to consider, none of which want to be associated with a team that hangs onto a personality who has dropped the N bomb on a public stream.
With their sponsors in mind, they've tried to make IdrA clean up his image with a decent amount of success, in spite of the fact that his abrasive personality is a factor in his popularity.
Hrm... since you mentioned Idra. I cant remember a specific example, but hasn't he used words like 'faggot' quite frequently in the past? I'm sure the evidence is out there somewhere. So why doesn't he get the hammer too? Correct me if I'm wrong.
To be fair, Idra hasn't raged quite so much in the past few months, at least from the games/videos i've seen. Supposedly, EG reprimands Idra every time he starts the whole "BM chat" thing in any game. But it's probably got something to do with his continued popularity (for God knows why...). Orb's predicament will hopefully get him to shape up.
|
motbob
United States12546 Posts
Mr. Garfield's post basically boiled down to "I personally find the word n----- unacceptable, and therefore I have fired Orb." I find it fascinating that no one has broken down the post to find the essence of its meaning yet. Go back and read the post. Here's the structure:
Alex explains why he, personally, finds the n-word so reprehensible.
He states: "In line with this, earlier today, Orb, who had been contracted by EG to anchor our Master's Cup broadcasts, was informed that he has been dismissed of his position and will not be invited back."
Alex then talks a bit about the nature of racism and how happy he is with the SC2 community for finding Orb's usage of the n-word as unacceptable as he did.
So there is your answer as to why this action feels "extreme." It's one man firing another for a personal belief -- it's a belief I 100% agree with leading to a firing that I 100% agree with, but that's not the point.
This is why I've felt that the comments that EG "caved in" to pressure from reddit/sponsors are detached from reality. You cannot read Mr. Garfield's post and come away with the impression that he acted at all against his wishes -- unless, of course, you assume that he is lying. And I don't see how anyone could assume that, either, unless they have a hopelessly cynical view of business and EG.
|
I strongly agree with motbob's post. I would not have come down as harshly on orb, but the post really was a systematic writeup regarding why the n word is terrible and should not be used. His argument was strong, and I agree with most aspects. There were bits I did not agree with, and I'm sure others felt the same way. However many individuals are seeing it as harsh organizationally. It is more harsh because of EG management finding it immoral.
|
I respect Alex Garfield for sticking to his beliefs, through and through. Even if the majority community was for the retaining of orb (Which it was not), he has the power to effect change in this situation and should do so. Sacrificing our morals and our beliefs when we can make a difference is a slippery slope.
|
I just heard of this whole ordeal today and had to absorb it all in, and forgive me if I state something wrong. Though from my general impressions, EG did the right thing in dismissing Orb. When you're representing a business, your actions directly influence their image. Whether it was done publicly (eg. streaming) or privately, the "media" does not care for the borderline between these two. I believe Orb definitely dug his own hole when he lied about the allegations that first emerged against him. To basically disregard that all and take back the lies, then now apologize for his behavior and admitting that he was indeed the one doing so is unacceptable to me as a person. Aside from this I personally believe that his action was not even necessary. There are other ways to vent your frustration. One of which is to just politely "gg" and log off if need be.
|
Sure has been a huge amount of drama I decided straight away I would not post in any of those threads was far to much heat and tunnel vision.
I do believe what orb did was wrong though and shouldn’t be done in any circumstance and it should have resulted in him getting a warning or fired at least some kind of repercussion, however my opinion is that it did not happen in the correct way, a few people should have brought the attention to EG’s staff and gave some complaints then let them deal with it.
Far to many people got involved that had nothing to do with it they read what happened then decided to take a side and got physically and emotionally involved when they should have just expressed their opinion and moved on they had nothing to do with the incident, instead it became a huge mob it was as if they did not believe that EG could come to their own decision.
Alex expressed that he would have preferred that it was left for him to decide what to do rather then a mob of people that felt the need for fiery justice with a passion to e-mail and message EG’s sponsors out of personal disdain and I agree with him we should all be adults and believe in the decisions of others, not create a lynch mob.
Alex came to a decision that he would have thought long and hard about and he believed it was the right decision in the end, I just think that a large amount of people got a little to passionate about it.
|
This kind of language is common in an anonymous sea of gamers, but that doesn't mean it isn't immature and hurtful language. Starcraft players strive to become a community of legitimate sportsmen. This requires public figures, individual personas, and a mannered audience.
Although Orb's words were not in a discriminatory context, the community should eschew any potentially hurtful language from all places. Not just the public figures of Starcraft, but everyone. Teamliquid condemns offensive behavior and so should we. It doesn't belong in sports, facebook, or battle.net.
As internet gamers we have a culture of arbitrary meme-like ignorance. As with the opinion of TL mods, it's not funny anymore and shouldn't be tolerated.
To orb's defense, he's part of our generation of angry nerds seeking cheap insults. It was a mistake. We should take a lesson from this and move forward.
|
@motbob
How do you feel personally about people whom cover it up? The most shocking things imo were the quotes
Wouldn't be the first or last time someone impersonates me on ladder.
Just woke up to see this image on reddit. Gotta love people that see a screenshot with no background/proof/context/anything and just start a witchhunt. Wouldn't be the first or last time for r/starcraft
and
Of all fucking people totalbiscuit, I didn't expect you to.join witchhunts slandering people. For the record, I only ever said the n word once on my stream, and I got defeatured for it on TL (despite featured streamer destiny saying the n word daily on his stream).
Since then I have not used the word once on stream..
But please john bain, keep slandering me baselessly.
Along with
You seem unbelievably determined to slander me. You link to an empty video and pretend it's proof, and then everyone jumps to conclusions and assumes I deleted it.
Notice not a single person is going so far in their lies as to say they saw me do it live... not only was it not me but i habent even streamed sc2 since most evil genius.
Keep up the baseless slander guys.
To only have him admit fault and all "responsibility" today. Basically tried to cover his ass, caught in it, and that doesn't get thrown out. I wished Alex mentioned that at least.
|
The comment wasn't necessary and regardless of whether or not the statement was a result of frustration, like most internet ragefests tend to be, the literal idea behind the words still maintained the malicious meaning. I'm not saying people are always going to make the correct decisions when they are fuming but I think that people need to be cognizant of what their actions or words might actually mean to someone else. If you want to yell at yourself, do it. No one cares if you spout the most racist phrases possible at your own person but it's another thing to direct it towards someone else. Whether or not the intent was there to harm or not, the result is the same.
The whole point is to watch what you say. It doesn't matter if it's in a ladder game where only you and the other person are or in a crowded hall with a microphone amplifying every word you say. If someone came up to you on the street and yelled the things that Orb said in your face, is that any different than through the internet? It's pretty incredible to think that the internet somehow changes what was said. I think it's probably a byproduct of the anonymity complex that so many people have when hiding behind their online IDs. The perceived safety of distance yields some pretty nasty stuff. I don't think any of the BM or rage on ladder would even exist if the two players were somehow thrown into the same room every time the system matched them up. I would expect substantially less negative feedback and more respect to be shown. Just type gg and leave. Even if you just lost to the worst executed cheese in your life where the other person probably wasn't there half of the game and luck propelled them to a cheap win, gg and play another game. It really isn't that hard and it will make the game better for everyone else. The alternative of saying whatever ignorant thing that comes to mind does nothing but make you look bad and possibly affect the other person as well. It's not worth it.
|
On March 09 2012 15:22 motbob wrote:
Mr. Garfield's post basically boiled down to "I personally find the word n----- unacceptable, and therefore I have fired Orb." I find it fascinating that no one has broken down the post to find the essence of its meaning yet. Go back and read the post. Here's the structure:
Alex explains why he, personally, finds the n-word so reprehensible.
He states: "In line with this, earlier today, Orb, who had been contracted by EG to anchor our Master's Cup broadcasts, was informed that he has been dismissed of his position and will not be invited back."
Alex then talks a bit about the nature of racism and how happy he is with the SC2 community for finding Orb's usage of the n-word as unacceptable as he did.
So there is your answer as to why this action feels "extreme." It's one man firing another for a personal belief -- it's a belief I 100% agree with leading to a firing that I 100% agree with, but that's not the point.
This is why I've felt that the comments that EG "caved in" to pressure from reddit/sponsors are detached from reality. You cannot read Mr. Garfield's post and come away with the impression that he acted at all against his wishes -- unless, of course, you assume that he is lying. And I don't see how anyone could assume that, either, unless they have a hopelessly cynical view of business and EG.
I understand what you're getting at but based off the post and his statements on twitter, he fired Orb for saying nigger on his stream at a time when Orb wasn't even affiliated with EG. He also says in his post that he wishes that people stigmatized the word faggot as much as nigger, implying that he holds very similar personal beliefs with regards to that word.
IdrA has used the word faggot or fag several times in different forums. So why was IdrA not let go from the team before? As far as I can see it is either:
A) Alex clearly doesn't hold as strong personal beliefs about the word faggot as he does about nigger.
or
B) Nobody conjured up a shitstorm and complained to sponsors when IdrA used those words. IdrA is also the signature player for EG.
Do I know which of these it is? Of course not. But I feel that this definitely raises questions about whether a double standard possibly exists here.
|
Some employers look at your twitter; some employers look at your facebook. The setting doesn't matter. If there's a controversy and the media catches wind of it. Prepare for the storm.
When you are a public figure and represent an organization like EG that heavily depends on sponsorship dollars, its your duty to be a good representative. It comes down to responsibility and action. Plus. you should never lie to your boss or make up stories.
With that said, I don't care for apologies. They mean shit to me. You can prove yourself through action and leading by example.
|
@MethodSC - Sorry, I didn't know that aspect of the story. To be fair, I did say "as far as I know" before I told the story, so there was room for error and I appreciate you informing me.
@motbob - I really wanted to get into the etymology of the N-word, but that would have required my typing the actual word, which makes me very uncomfortable. There is also a linguistic/philosophical approach to the understanding of language that I study every day as an English major; but it's extremely complex, so I didn't want to get into too much detail on that. If you find a post about the background of the n-word, please link me, I am very interested.
@SmOkeYNaGaTa It doesn't belong in sports, facebook, or battle.net. Well said.
@RJGooner There was a tweet from Alex a while ago that addressed Idra's bad manner, and how he would call Idra and talk to him about it. The result is the much more politically correct bad manner Idra we have now, which I think is a vast improvement. I'll be posting the link to Alex's tweet about Idra's bad manner soon, but you can find it HERE.
|
@Grohg No one cares if you spout the most racist phrases possible at your own person but it's another thing to direct it towards someone else. I actually disagree with this completely. While it is not directly harmful to say something like that in privacy, condoning a racist mentality simply because it is in the sanctuary of your own home does not make racism okay. I don't know if that was what you meant when you wrote this, but it is how it came across to me.
I don't think any of the BM or rage on ladder would even exist if the two players were somehow thrown into the same room every time the system matched them up. I TOTALLY agree with this. I find the way that our interactions differ between the online persona and the persona we portray in reality to be very interesting.
|
This is a copy and paste of something I posted in another thread.
The sc2 community is soft and nosey. They're beginning to be like that old lady that lives next door with her cats. Always in your business trying to see what she can tell the neighborhood. Its quite frustrating. Then you have the grammar nazis and truth police that roam the forums looking for trouble. When I first joined teamliquid, I took it pretty seriously. Not seriously as in what I described above, but I began to take interest in e-sports through tl and thought it would be big like "real" sports.
never in a million years would I expect what has happened in the past 2 weeks to become such an issue. this is why:
1. Its the internet, if your sad about something someone said... oh well.
2. If you look to start trouble and/or bait anger out of somebody, dont expect to NOT get a reaction.
3. Get over the "we're all adults so we have to be Good Mannered" shit, like I said in #1, its the internet.
4. People are entitled to say whatever the fuck they want to say because again, its the internet.
Sure, you can whine about someone saying "Nigger", but im black and I can say that it doesnt bother me and Im sure that it really doesnt bother any other black person on this site. I find it funny because people usually only say it when they are referring to stupid shit, not to be racist.
So my message to the community is:
Grow some nuts. Let that testosterone flow, drink a beer, and enjoy watching a stream just like you would a basketball or football game and stop whining because thats a bitch trait
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
