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On March 09 2012 17:11 RJGooner wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 15:22 motbob wrote:
Mr. Garfield's post basically boiled down to "I personally find the word n----- unacceptable, and therefore I have fired Orb." I find it fascinating that no one has broken down the post to find the essence of its meaning yet. Go back and read the post. Here's the structure:
Alex explains why he, personally, finds the n-word so reprehensible.
He states: "In line with this, earlier today, Orb, who had been contracted by EG to anchor our Master's Cup broadcasts, was informed that he has been dismissed of his position and will not be invited back."
Alex then talks a bit about the nature of racism and how happy he is with the SC2 community for finding Orb's usage of the n-word as unacceptable as he did.
So there is your answer as to why this action feels "extreme." It's one man firing another for a personal belief -- it's a belief I 100% agree with leading to a firing that I 100% agree with, but that's not the point.
This is why I've felt that the comments that EG "caved in" to pressure from reddit/sponsors are detached from reality. You cannot read Mr. Garfield's post and come away with the impression that he acted at all against his wishes -- unless, of course, you assume that he is lying. And I don't see how anyone could assume that, either, unless they have a hopelessly cynical view of business and EG. I understand what you're getting at but based off the post and his statements on twitter, he fired Orb for saying nigger on his stream at a time when Orb wasn't even affiliated with EG. He also says in his post that he wishes that people stigmatized the word faggot as much as nigger, implying that he holds very similar personal beliefs with regards to that word. IdrA has used the word faggot or fag several times in different forums. So why was IdrA not let go from the team before? As far as I can see it is either: A) Alex clearly doesn't hold as strong personal beliefs about the word faggot as he does about nigger. or B) Nobody conjured up a shitstorm and complained to sponsors when IdrA used those words. IdrA is also the signature player for EG. Do I know which of these it is? Of course not. But I feel that this definitely raises questions about whether a double standard possibly exists here.
Would anyone really want Idra to be fired from EG for saying faggot? It would be way too harsh of a punishment. Especially if it was done for saying faggot before he even joined. Orb's punishment is way over the top.
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On March 09 2012 15:22 motbob wrote:
Mr. Garfield's post basically boiled down to "I personally find the word n----- unacceptable, and therefore I have fired Orb." I find it fascinating that no one has broken down the post to find the essence of its meaning yet. Go back and read the post. Here's the structure:
Alex explains why he, personally, finds the n-word so reprehensible.
He states: "In line with this, earlier today, Orb, who had been contracted by EG to anchor our Master's Cup broadcasts, was informed that he has been dismissed of his position and will not be invited back."
Alex then talks a bit about the nature of racism and how happy he is with the SC2 community for finding Orb's usage of the n-word as unacceptable as he did.
So there is your answer as to why this action feels "extreme." It's one man firing another for a personal belief -- it's a belief I 100% agree with leading to a firing that I 100% agree with, but that's not the point.
This is why I've felt that the comments that EG "caved in" to pressure from reddit/sponsors are detached from reality. You cannot read Mr. Garfield's post and come away with the impression that he acted at all against his wishes -- unless, of course, you assume that he is lying. And I don't see how anyone could assume that, either, unless they have a hopelessly cynical view of business and EG.
His wishes are that of what the majority of the community wants (like any guys working in marketing), which is some sort of justice for orb's use of the n word. And that is also why no one - to put it in your words - has broken down the post to find the essence of the meaning. Completely irrelevant. Alex was always going to respond in a way that best serves his business. He wouldn't give a flying fuck about his personal beliefs if it meant hurting EG.
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On March 09 2012 18:17 AeroEffect wrote:
1. Its the internet, if your sad about something someone said... oh well.
2. If you look to start trouble and/or bait anger out of somebody, dont expect to NOT get a reaction.
3. Get over the "we're all adults so we have to be Good Mannered" shit, like I said in #1, its the internet.
4. People are entitled to say whatever the fuck they want to say because again, its the internet.
[...]
Grow some nuts. Let that testosterone flow, drink a beer, and enjoy watching a stream just like you would a basketball or football game and stop whining because thats a bitch trait
So you want to treat it like a regular sports game, but with an "its the internetz lolol" attitude? Genius. If someone involved in the NBA or NFL was calling his opponents "dumb niggers", I'm pretty sure there would be some repercussions. Serious ones. Nobody cares whether or not it's actually said out of racism (extremely unlikely anyway), the point is it's unacceptable public behavior for someone that represents a larger organization. The same is true here, EG is a corporation with an image to protect. It's not a big deal when random 15 year olds on ladder drop the N word left and right, because they're just random 15 year olds, not contracted professionals in the public eye.
On the other hand, the SC community (notice the lack of a "2" there) prides itself on being a little bit better than the sewage pit that is the rest of the internet and other "gaming communities". So no, it's not "the internet". If that's how you feel, kindly take your leave and crawl back to 4chan or wherever where this is the norm.
What you suggest we do is exactly what I already do. I take a few beers from the fridge, queue up an hour or two of tournament VODs, and enjoy myself, as though I were watching the World Cup or something. However, when I'm watching the World Cup, I don't have to worry about legions of trolls in stream chat, and I don't have to worry about the players and casters insulting each other on camera, because they're professionals. You say grow some nuts; I say have some fucking standards.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On March 09 2012 21:05 sharky246 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 15:22 motbob wrote:
Mr. Garfield's post basically boiled down to "I personally find the word n----- unacceptable, and therefore I have fired Orb." I find it fascinating that no one has broken down the post to find the essence of its meaning yet. Go back and read the post. Here's the structure:
Alex explains why he, personally, finds the n-word so reprehensible.
He states: "In line with this, earlier today, Orb, who had been contracted by EG to anchor our Master's Cup broadcasts, was informed that he has been dismissed of his position and will not be invited back."
Alex then talks a bit about the nature of racism and how happy he is with the SC2 community for finding Orb's usage of the n-word as unacceptable as he did.
So there is your answer as to why this action feels "extreme." It's one man firing another for a personal belief -- it's a belief I 100% agree with leading to a firing that I 100% agree with, but that's not the point.
This is why I've felt that the comments that EG "caved in" to pressure from reddit/sponsors are detached from reality. You cannot read Mr. Garfield's post and come away with the impression that he acted at all against his wishes -- unless, of course, you assume that he is lying. And I don't see how anyone could assume that, either, unless they have a hopelessly cynical view of business and EG. His wishes are that of what the majority of the community wants (like any guys working in marketing), which is some sort of justice for orb's use of the n word. And that is also why no one - to put it in your words - has broken down the post to find the essence of the meaning. Completely irrelevant. Alex was always going to respond in a way that best serves his business. He wouldn't give a flying fuck about his personal beliefs if it meant hurting EG.
See, this is what I'm talking about. You are saying this kind of stuff with absolutely no justification. You are taking the most cynical view of Mr. Garfield possible when there is zero reason to do so.
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On March 09 2012 18:17 AeroEffect wrote:
The sc2 community is soft and nosey. They're beginning to be like that old lady that lives next door with her cats. Always in your business trying to see what she can tell the neighborhood. Its quite frustrating. Then you have the grammar nazis and truth police that roam the forums looking for trouble. When I first joined teamliquid, I took it pretty seriously. Not seriously as in what I described above, but I began to take interest in e-sports through tl and thought it would be big like "real" sports.
never in a million years would I expect what has happened in the past 2 weeks to become such an issue. this is why:
1. Its the internet, if your sad about something someone said... oh well.
2. If you look to start trouble and/or bait anger out of somebody, dont expect to NOT get a reaction.
3. Get over the "we're all adults so we have to be Good Mannered" shit, like I said in #1, its the internet.
4. People are entitled to say whatever the fuck they want to say because again, its the internet.
Sure, you can whine about someone saying "Nigger", but im black and I can say that it doesnt bother me and Im sure that it really doesnt bother any other black person on this site. I find it funny because people usually only say it when they are referring to stupid shit, not to be racist.
So my message to the community is:
Grow some nuts. Let that testosterone flow, drink a beer, and enjoy watching a stream just like you would a basketball or football game and stop whining because thats a bitch trait
The only question I have for you is this: Just because it's the internet and it has an annonymous aspect to it; does that make it okay to use offensive language? Do we have the right to defy society's standards simply because it is the internet? Just curious about your thoughts on the topic.
Also, you say "let that testosterone flow" when this is a post by a girl... that's a bit illogical. Just throwing that out there, take it as you will.
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