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On March 02 2012 19:01 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 17:47 Xenocide_Knight wrote:its kinda like sc2 should have been the rightful heir to bw but because of everything that happened with blizzard and kespa, korea was kinda in a state of anarchy trying to find the right game to replace sc1. its like sc2 wants to go mainstream but cant because of the rights blizzard set on the game. Rightful heir my ass. No one trying to replace BW except for people who are only interested in making a quick buck. Corporations that contributed nothing to esports (blizzard), washed up/Bteam/retired/ex BW pros, non-korean progamers, etc. Maybe it's not as big as BW in korea On February 02 2012 23:36 IdrA wrote:
cuz its a shit game Oh, this is a really good post http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288It's a bit outdated though, but it should still be somewhat relevant Hey if SC2 lived up to the same standards we expected from BW then it would be the rightful heir. It should have been an improvement over BW, but it wasn't. Blizzard botched it, and now LoL is taking BWs place as stated.
Well to be fair even BW wasn't very good or competitive right away. Though I do have this sinking feeling that with time and more expansions SC2 isn't gonna get much better or more BW like, just more ridiculous with more of the "hey look at the giant stupid shiny units that make the game a giant pile of shit to play." I suppose you are right though, even if BW didn't start out great with SC2 they had all the knowledge of BW, but they let their egos get in the way by wanting to make something unique. And not just fallow in the footsteps of something that worked.
You know, it's actually very depressing knowing that I've played SC since before BW even came out, and saved up allowance to buy BW on the first day it came out, and that to this day I've never played a single game of 1v1 on BW and until SC2 beta I didn't even know there was such a thing as esports.
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I'm not the biggest sc2 fan, but LoL being bigger than sc2 just feels wrong man  .
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Koreans dominate in SC2 currently. That said, it doesn't matter if it takes off in Korea. It has taken off everywhere else and doesn't need Korea. It would be awesome if Korea could be included, but it really isn't needed as long as some of them play.
That said in SC:BW time, this would be 2000. Compared to 2000 StarCraft, BW is doing fine.
As far as the Dota/HoN/LoL games... ugh. Maybe if their communities got better they could grow. I feel that as a whole they are just a bunch of angst filled ragers. I have no interest in those games because of that.
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On March 02 2012 19:01 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 17:47 Xenocide_Knight wrote:its kinda like sc2 should have been the rightful heir to bw but because of everything that happened with blizzard and kespa, korea was kinda in a state of anarchy trying to find the right game to replace sc1. its like sc2 wants to go mainstream but cant because of the rights blizzard set on the game. Rightful heir my ass. No one trying to replace BW except for people who are only interested in making a quick buck. Corporations that contributed nothing to esports (blizzard), washed up/Bteam/retired/ex BW pros, non-korean progamers, etc. Maybe it's not as big as BW in korea On February 02 2012 23:36 IdrA wrote:
cuz its a shit game Oh, this is a really good post http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288It's a bit outdated though, but it should still be somewhat relevant Hey if SC2 lived up to the same standards we expected from BW then it would be the rightful heir. It should have been an improvement over BW, but it wasn't. Blizzard botched it, and now LoL is taking BWs place as stated.
They still have 2 more tries, and even then I wouldn't call Sc2 WoL a failure.... BW was the best PC game in the biggest PC progaming scene for 10+ years, thats a lot to live up to. Don't you remember Zerg in Starcraft 1?
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i can get Sc2 not filling in for BW, but what the fuck LoL? its not even THAT much better than original dota. i've never watched a MOBA game on stream (played a lot though), but i cant imagine it be that much better of a spectator sport compared to sc2?!?
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On March 02 2012 17:47 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +its kinda like sc2 should have been the rightful heir to bw but because of everything that happened with blizzard and kespa, korea was kinda in a state of anarchy trying to find the right game to replace sc1. its like sc2 wants to go mainstream but cant because of the rights blizzard set on the game. Rightful heir my ass. No one trying to replace BW except for people who are only interested in making a quick buck. Corporations that contributed nothing to esports (blizzard), washed up/Bteam/retired/ex BW pros, non-korean progamers, etc. Maybe it's not as big as BW in korea Oh, this is a really good post http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288It's a bit outdated though, but it should still be somewhat relevant
That was a good post...I especially like the part where MrHoon says:
The order should not be Esport → Everyone get's all competitive → Even my mom plays SC2!
NO! It should be the other fucking way around
Even my mom plays SC2! → Everyone get's all competitive → ESPORTS
...When you go to Korea and tell a bunch of casual gamers who played games for fun that 'this is the best new competitive game ever and your blood will boil', who the fuck would buy it?
That's probably why everyone loves LoL instead, its fundamentally about the game being *fun* to play. When I first started playing SC2 I felt like I was having a panic attack every time I hit the find game button
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United States1719 Posts
On March 03 2012 02:54 Railxp wrote:
i can get Sc2 not filling in for BW, but what the fuck LoL? its not even THAT much better than original dota. i've never watched a MOBA game on stream (played a lot though), but i cant imagine it be that much better of a spectator sport compared to sc2?!?
i tried watching LoL and it's actually pretty fun to watch, plus it helps that the commentators don't suck donkey d ! ( |<
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This is what happens when you don't understand all your markets.
F2P MOBA is huge as Milkis pointed out. Sorry guys, the industry is changing.
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On March 03 2012 00:19 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
Ok, LoL isn't filling in anything in Korea... most gamers in Korea have no idea what DOTA is anyway. They played Kaos or Chaos which wasn't even that competitive. So, LoL is pretty much the first huge MOBA game to hit Korea. It's a new genre, and people are loving it.
I agree with OpticalShot, I find absolutely 0 enjoyment playing SC2 as there aren't as much feeling of accomplishment as it was in BW. As a casual gamer, and long time BW player, (just like most Koreans) I don't want to focus and get good at another RTS game.. which requires dedication.. while BW comes quiet naturally already for most of us. The old thread by MrHoon says it all really.. go read it for those who havent!
Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious here, is it hard enough to require dedication but too easy to give you a feeling of accomplishment? I don't understand... Seems pretty contradictory.
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On March 03 2012 04:41 Nible wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 00:19 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
Ok, LoL isn't filling in anything in Korea... most gamers in Korea have no idea what DOTA is anyway. They played Kaos or Chaos which wasn't even that competitive. So, LoL is pretty much the first huge MOBA game to hit Korea. It's a new genre, and people are loving it.
I agree with OpticalShot, I find absolutely 0 enjoyment playing SC2 as there aren't as much feeling of accomplishment as it was in BW. As a casual gamer, and long time BW player, (just like most Koreans) I don't want to focus and get good at another RTS game.. which requires dedication.. while BW comes quiet naturally already for most of us. The old thread by MrHoon says it all really.. go read it for those who havent! Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious here, is it hard enough to require dedication but too easy to give you a feeling of accomplishment? I don't understand... Seems pretty contradictory.
You haven't played both games have you? It's hard to explain with words. Something about sc2 feels so shallow in comparison.
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On March 03 2012 04:57 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 04:41 Nible wrote:On March 03 2012 00:19 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
Ok, LoL isn't filling in anything in Korea... most gamers in Korea have no idea what DOTA is anyway. They played Kaos or Chaos which wasn't even that competitive. So, LoL is pretty much the first huge MOBA game to hit Korea. It's a new genre, and people are loving it.
I agree with OpticalShot, I find absolutely 0 enjoyment playing SC2 as there aren't as much feeling of accomplishment as it was in BW. As a casual gamer, and long time BW player, (just like most Koreans) I don't want to focus and get good at another RTS game.. which requires dedication.. while BW comes quiet naturally already for most of us. The old thread by MrHoon says it all really.. go read it for those who havent! Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious here, is it hard enough to require dedication but too easy to give you a feeling of accomplishment? I don't understand... Seems pretty contradictory. You haven't played both games have you? It's hard to explain with words. Something about sc2 feels so shallow in comparison.
No I haven't, tried to play BW once but I couldn't find someone to play with. I really understand people saying the game is so hard, it was hard to even find a game. 
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On March 03 2012 04:57 Xenocide_Knight wrote:
You haven't played both games have you? It's hard to explain with words. Something about sc2 feels so shallow in comparison.
This may sound very stupid ... but to me, part of it is that there is only one level of fog of war in SC2: The map is completely revealed from the get-go, and it doesn't feel like you're exploring anything. For the new player, that's a huge departure from WC2 and BW (I never played WC3). I remember as a kid the first times firing up WC2 and SC, and something about it was just engrossing.
I still enjoy SC2 because it is a good strategy game and I have fun playing it, but it lacks a certain mystique that Blizzard's earlier games had. There's no electric Blizzard logo on startup, instead you see a silent loading screen and a login form right away. Even connecting to a server felt like you were going somewhere in BW. And the music and sound effects, from the menus to the gameplay, were much more refined and interesting.
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oh god it's bad enough that my friends are picking up LoL, but now Korea as well? And over sc2? the fuck is going on. i would have assumed that bw players who have honed gosu skills in bw would be turned off by such a casual game like lol.
guys we gotta pray and pray hard that blizzard doesnt fuck it up more and comes up with GOSU expansions that take this game to new heights. WoL is not gonna cut it AT ALL if they really want a game with super competition and high skill.
seriously all is riding on these expansions.
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On March 03 2012 06:18 Golgotha wrote:
oh god it's bad enough that my friends are picking up LoL, but now Korea as well? And over sc2? the fuck is going on. i would have assumed that bw players who have honed gosu skills in bw would be turned off by such a casual game like lol.
guys we gotta pray and pray hard that blizzard doesnt fuck it up more and comes up with GOSU expansions that take this game to new heights. WoL is not gonna cut it AT ALL if they really want a game with super competition and high skill.
seriously all is riding on these expansions.
All the 'gosu' korean BW players are turned off by the casualness of LOL, but then they are of sc2 as well. They still play BW for the most part.
its the casual part of Korea (most of it tbh) which embraces lol.
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United States1719 Posts
On March 03 2012 06:18 Golgotha wrote:
oh god it's bad enough that my friends are picking up LoL, but now Korea as well? And over sc2? the fuck is going on. i would have assumed that bw players who have honed gosu skills in bw would be turned off by such a casual game like lol.
guys we gotta pray and pray hard that blizzard doesnt fuck it up more and comes up with GOSU expansions that take this game to new heights. WoL is not gonna cut it AT ALL if they really want a game with super competition and high skill.
seriously all is riding on these expansions.
TBH I would play/watch LoL over SC2; it's just plain fun, while the latter is not. BW didn't become popular because it was a hard game, it took off because it was fun. Only after the esports scene matured did all this analysis on the high skill ceiling kick in. I would never play casual SC2 with my friends for fun: the actual gameplay feels linear in progression, and the focus seems to be on ladder rankings over fun,
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On March 03 2012 07:06 rotinegg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 06:18 Golgotha wrote:
oh god it's bad enough that my friends are picking up LoL, but now Korea as well? And over sc2? the fuck is going on. i would have assumed that bw players who have honed gosu skills in bw would be turned off by such a casual game like lol.
guys we gotta pray and pray hard that blizzard doesnt fuck it up more and comes up with GOSU expansions that take this game to new heights. WoL is not gonna cut it AT ALL if they really want a game with super competition and high skill.
seriously all is riding on these expansions. TBH I would play/watch LoL over SC2; it's just plain fun, while the latter is not. BW didn't become popular because it was a hard game, it took off because it was fun. Only after the esports scene matured did all this analysis on the high skill ceiling kick in. I would never play casual SC2 with my friends for fun: the actual gameplay feels linear in progression, and the focus seems to be on ladder rankings over fun,
Maybe I should watch some LoL, but with DOTA and HoN it has mostly just been rage and really uninteresting 'and now they are still in the lane phase...'. *Shrug* Not sure what you mean by linear in a multiplayer RTS game. That pretty much has to be linear. There isn't another way it can be done. You might just want to ya know play the game for fun and ignore the ladder. It isn't really relevant.
I will give LoL a look though. And I hope it is better than HoN casts/games :/
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Netherlands45349 Posts
I'm going to confess that in the off-season, I tried out StarCraft 2 and League of Legends. I was so surprised when I first played StarCraft 2. I couldn't believe that such an easy game exists. Same with League of Legends. I guess the best way to attract people these days is to make things easy and simple."
keke Midas
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On March 03 2012 14:01 MattyClutch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:06 rotinegg wrote:On March 03 2012 06:18 Golgotha wrote:
oh god it's bad enough that my friends are picking up LoL, but now Korea as well? And over sc2? the fuck is going on. i would have assumed that bw players who have honed gosu skills in bw would be turned off by such a casual game like lol.
guys we gotta pray and pray hard that blizzard doesnt fuck it up more and comes up with GOSU expansions that take this game to new heights. WoL is not gonna cut it AT ALL if they really want a game with super competition and high skill.
seriously all is riding on these expansions. TBH I would play/watch LoL over SC2; it's just plain fun, while the latter is not. BW didn't become popular because it was a hard game, it took off because it was fun. Only after the esports scene matured did all this analysis on the high skill ceiling kick in. I would never play casual SC2 with my friends for fun: the actual gameplay feels linear in progression, and the focus seems to be on ladder rankings over fun, Maybe I should watch some LoL, but with DOTA and HoN it has mostly just been rage and really uninteresting 'and now they are still in the lane phase...'. *Shrug* Not sure what you mean by linear in a multiplayer RTS game. That pretty much has to be linear. There isn't another way it can be done. You might just want to ya know play the game for fun and ignore the ladder. It isn't really relevant. I will give LoL a look though. And I hope it is better than HoN casts/games :/
You can come to the LoL subforum (subtle hijack). Although realistically LoL has the same 'uninteresting' problems as Dota and HoN - maybe even more so since most would say that LoL promotes more passive play than the other two. There are plenty of ragers in LoL but maybe it's not as noticeable since the playerbase is pretty big and there are a lot of people just trying out the genre for the first time.
If you want some exciting commentary, watch the Korean casts. English casters just don't seem to have the enthusiasm and excitability of Korean casters.
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
i've been to PC bangs a few times while i was in korea last month, let me tell you no one plays SC2
and there are a lot of ppl playing MMORPGs -and casual BW (like 3v3 bgh etc etc) and LoL
only these
and sometimes random gostop games lol
sc2 will never be mainstream
edit: woops forgot kart rider and sudden attack lol
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On March 03 2012 07:06 rotinegg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 06:18 Golgotha wrote:
oh god it's bad enough that my friends are picking up LoL, but now Korea as well? And over sc2? the fuck is going on. i would have assumed that bw players who have honed gosu skills in bw would be turned off by such a casual game like lol.
guys we gotta pray and pray hard that blizzard doesnt fuck it up more and comes up with GOSU expansions that take this game to new heights. WoL is not gonna cut it AT ALL if they really want a game with super competition and high skill.
seriously all is riding on these expansions. TBH I would play/watch LoL over SC2; it's just plain fun, while the latter is not. BW didn't become popular because it was a hard game, it took off because it was fun. Only after the esports scene matured did all this analysis on the high skill ceiling kick in. I would never play casual SC2 with my friends for fun: the actual gameplay feels linear in progression, and the focus seems to be on ladder rankings over fun,
Yea, another thing we have to remember is that people didn't start playing BW like "oh man, I'm only D- now but one day I'm going to be yellow ranks!" Even growing up with koreans who I now know are B-ish level, it was just like
"Hey you wanna play some SC?"
"Aw yea man lets play BGH"
"Sweet, I'm going to proxy hatch sunken rush!"
"Nice! I'll do 1 base carrier LOL"
It's just fun. For us, there was no standard meta, no rankings, no "cheese" or "tryhard". Everything was just fun. Builds where whatever allowed us to make whatever units we felt like making.
LoL has the same feel. I just hop on skype, grab some friends, invite some over, everyone picks their favorite champ, and bam. Good times. SC2 is kinda fun but inevitably, it becomes "Oh man, we got placed into xx league? Shit, we need to get to at least xx league asap"
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EPT
