It's harder than one might think to intentionally lose in the bronze league. Sure, a loss is just an F10 + N away, but getting them to actually kill you is like trying to coax a wild rabbit to let you pet him. They're cute, but skittish.
Come on, little guy, I just want to post pictures of you on the internet.
More than being difficult, it felt kind of wrong. To efficiently lose games, I had to do dumb things like worker rush not by killing their harvesters, but by trying to kill their hatchery in front of them. I mean, it almost worked a few times, and maybe I could eventually succeed with that, but I wasn't really trying to win. It felt dishonest. At least when I was worker rushing normally I was really trying to win, albeit with a very bad strategy. I finally decided to stop my descent after a few dozen games when my attempts to lose were beginning to be actively thwarted. The lower you go, the more leavers and bots you encounter, which is great if you're trying to farm wins, but not so great if you're trying to observe bronze leaguers (or actually play a game, in the case of the bronzies themselves). I was also doing this during the ladder lock, when a lot of higher level players venture down to bronze to troll and then level back up in the next season. It's like a bimonthly vacation for master leaguers.
The final game I completely intended to lose I ended up winning. I had taken to just harassing with a probe for as long as possible to gauge their reactions and then AFking to see what they would do. Against this player, I set up a dance chain around my nexus with my probes while one loser probe mined some minerals. With my one harassment probe, I managed to kill a drone and delay his hatchery for awhile. Using my tiny mineral income, I built a pylon to see how my opponent would react against a potential cannon rush. By that point, though, he had hatched 4 lings and chased my probe around the map with all of them. I rallied my worker around and when it died I got up to use the bathroom. I returned to see the following:
I told you it was difficult.
After he finally got around to scouting my base (9 minutes into the game), he left. I suppose a certain level of respect is due to someone who cares so little about their ladder points that they would leave the game instead of spending 30 seconds to kill a Nexus. It was a bit baffling, though; his premature departure was so unlike the obstinate command center lifting I had grown accustomed to. I decided then that I had traversed low enough. Was this bronze hell? I don't know. Maybe all of bronze is hell. That seems the most likely possibility.
I began, then, my quest to better understand the average bronze leaguer. I have been calling them stupid, but that's not entirely accurate. It is wrong, however convenient, to see someone doing something stupid and think they themselves are also stupid. I've done plenty of stupid things; everyone has. You couldn't call everyone stupid, though. Just most people. The fact is, the people in bronze league are only marginally less intelligent than the rest of society. That is where the fascination comes in. That is why I have felt the need to understand why this group of people, who in most respects are completely normal, are so horrible at Starcraft, especially when most of the Starcraft community is concerned with improving itself. They are outliers; they are interesting.
One thing they are not, however, is all children. To say that everyone in bronze is a child is not only a gross oversimplification, but an insult to children. Children do not call people faggots and demand that they kill themselves. And if they are doing that, they have ceded any right to really be considered children at that point. You have no innocence left to lose when you start issuing electronic death threats. When I was 10, I still barely knew what my penis was for and was more concerned that I might make some nebulous concept of God angry if I did bad things than I was about my skill in a video game. No, ego comes with pubescence, and there are certainly a lot of teenagers on the ladder. I consider them fair game, though; they're old enough to know better. My stance is that if Texas will execute them, I'll make fun of them. Admittedly, it's a wide berth.
Reflecting on the descent down and the worker rushes prior, I have begun to sculpt a preliminary profile of the average bronzie. Some of them are clearly new players, that's irrefutable and expected.
Sometimes a newbie is just a newbie.
Almost 2 years after release, though, the amount of new players has rapidly dwindled. I rarely encounter anyone with less than 100 games played. You must remember that for every bronze player who loses to a worker rush, there is another one who does not. How do we explain the fail and rage displayed by those who do lose, though? After much pondering, I have come to a conclusion. I think there is a great deal of cognitive dissonance going on down in the bronze league. Now stay with me here. I've read the Wikipedia article on it, so I consider myself a bit of an expert. I'll try to keep it dumbed down for the laymen reading, though. Basically, those of us who are aware of the broader Starcraft "scene," know how completely fucking awful we are compared to the real pro-gamers. Because we're bad, we generally attribute our losses to ourselves, not our opponents. I'm not going to pretend that everybody in silver and up is a paragon of introspective, rational thought, but at least diamond leaguer's who rage do so about things like 2 base all-ins instead of worker rushes. For most people, I imagine the sentiment is internal, not external. I think it is most often "I lost," not "he won." We're all here because at some level we like the strategy of the game, so it's natural to look a loss and hypothesize what went wrong. I think most people really do want to "be better gamers." Or, at the very least, they like to see a guy make funny faces into a webcam for an hour.
The majority of bronzies have the opposite attitude. Most bronzies, isolated from the rest of the Starcraft world, have no idea that they're bad. Many think, wrongly, that they are good. And so when something comes along to challenge that paradigm, especially something as extreme as a worker rush, it creates dissonance. Rather than assimilate new data into their Starcraft 2 mindset, they irrationally block out any conflicting information. To them it's not their fault they lost; it's because their opponent is a noob/cheeser/hacker/better race/etc. They are enraged and defensive because I have challenged their perceived level of skill in such an abrupt and decisive manner. This refusal to acknowledge failures and learn from them leads to the stagnation that has created the bronze we know today, the bronze that I presume will exist for as long as the game does. It is not so interesting that bronze players are bad, it is interesting that they are bad at learning.
Why are so many of them like this, though? To answer that, I feel we must consider their frame of reference. To us, bronze is the worst thing you can be. It's literally the lowest you can go. There is no lead league, no wood league. Bronze is insulting, shameful. But think about what bronze means in real life—it means third place. Third place is pretty good. There's no negative connotations associated with the word "bronze" in everyday life. Nobody watches the Olympic 100m dash and says to themselves about the 3rd place finisher, "hah, bronze! What a loser."
Maybe next time, fatty.
Now think about the horrible battle.net 2.0 UI. Where can you go to find out how good you are? You can't. Your losses aren't even displayed. There are rankings, but it's based on the arbitrary division system and doesn't actually give any meaningful information. Anyone can figure out that there are more than 100 people playing Starcraft. There are points, but they don't mean anything. Most of the people in every division have 0 to 12 points because they played a game or two and quit for the season. I've been top 8 bronze for a long time because I spend my bonus pool and win 50% of my games worker rushing. Come to think of it, nowhere in the game itself does it even tell these people that they are in the lowest league possible. When you are placed in bronze, you get the same message you do when you're placed in any league.
Way to go, you're terrible!
They literally congratulate you for what could possibly be intentionally losing all 5 of your initial placement matches. I don't want to get into the whole self-esteem generation shit, but you see where this is going. Blizzard has engineered a system that in no way acknowledges failure. So when someone smashes them (I suppose we have to consider losing to workers in 2 minutes a "smashing") they don't understand why. How could they lose? They're top 8 in their bronze division! They beat their brother all the time! That guy must be cheating. But even those who realize that they are in the worst league still refuse to accept that they're bad, instead believing they are better than they really are and blaming others for their loss, using their own skill level as an insult. They have a mental block that they can't overcome.
This never ceases to depress me.
Time to go from theory to practice, though. One trend revealed itself rather strongly on my journey downwards: bronze players do not scout. Now, that might seem like an obvious statement, but it goes beyond simply not scouting. The lengths to which bronze players will go to deny themselves information approaches levels that could only be described as phobic. They are deathly afraid of the fog of war, and, as Kermit the frog once said, “Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Maybe this is why they are so mad when I enter their base unexpectedly.
In one of my games where I wanted to lose, I worker rushed a guy, focusing on killing his pylons instead of his probes. I killed the first one, and instead of pushing me away with his workers, he built a second. As I began destroying that one, he eventually did attack move and shoo my workers away. With the one remaining worker I had left in his base, I started making pylons. His response was to go about his normal PvP gameplan: an above ramp forge into cannoning his ramp. He then built some pylons on the low ground and cannoned that up, too. After 15 minutes he tentatively poked out with an observer and finally figured out I wasn't actually doing anything at my base. I have seen countless bronze Protoss go forge first not to FFE, but as some poorly conceived early defense system. But that brings up the question: if nobody in bronze scouts, and they are also all terrified of moving out, what exactly are they defending against? I've heard bronzies rail against "cheese," but nobody ever actually cheeses. At least nothing beyond the odd 6 pool (where they are as likely to attack with the lings as they are to sit there with them). I just cannot see what they are so afraid of. The only "cheese" they seem to regularly encounter is worker rushes, which a forge first or a 6 pool isn't going to do shit against.
I don't understand how someone who has encountered this enough to have an opinion of it has not figured out how to beat it.
I cannot understand how this became such a widespread bronze strategy. You'd think the bronzies would start metagaming each other and making 6 nexuses before gateway or something. It's not like they are likely to be attacked. To that point, when I randomed a ZvT I built a hatchery at every single base before making a pool. I didn't want to build any queens, so I just made more hatcheries to spread creep.
This minimap should not be allowed to happen.
I had the intention of massing 200 drones, but my opponent cut that short as he had been clumsily teching toward 2 port Banshees. Some siege tanks and marines stood guard to defend against the attacks that never seem to come in bronze. By the 13 minute mark when he finally attacked, I had 13 hatcheries, 8000 minerals and 1500 gas. Blissfully unaware that I had 6 more bases, he left his banshees to idly bombard my main and natural. Luckily, I had built 2 lairs elsewhere. I made a hydra den, a clump of hydras, and a pair of overseers. I cleaned up his attack and rebuilt my hatcheries, and then sat there wondering what to do. I decided on a bunch of Infestors to burrow around and play with. Meanwhile, my opponent made more tanks, turrets, and sensor towers to turtle. As he had yet to scout anything but the dozen hydras I showed him, I'm not sure what he was defending against. We had a few skirmishes with my Infestors as I figured out how to shift toss a bunch of infested Terrans at once. At some point sticky keys bitched at me for holding shift, but I fixed that and got the hang of how to do it. I spent the next 20 minutes wandering around lobbing beach balls around the perimeter of his base. I should have just given him the win, but the novelty of having a map covered in creep and 40k/20k resources in a game where my opponent was actually there proved too much. Eventually, I wandered into his natural and killed him with the Infestor squad.
Pictured: Fun
Toward the end, though, something salient happened. He harassed my main (the only base he had ever confirmed the existence of) again with banshees while trying one last ditch effort to expand. Having still not scouted the fact that the map was nearly completely infested by hatcheries, he tried to fly his orbital across the map and mine some more minerals. When it arrived at my base, it was automatically killed by a group of spore crawlers I had constructed when the banshees first arrived. He left the game as soon as he saw his orbital under fire, realizing his plan had failed.
The standard 40 minute orbital scout timing
This showed that even if my opponent was irrationally afraid of scouting, floating thousands of minerals, and generally lacking any idea about what he was doing, he still wanted to win. There is often a depressing moment in these games where my opponent has one last flame of an idea, and when it's snuffed out by the hopelessness of the situation they leave the game sadly, wordlessly. Importantly, though, it shows that even among the worst players there still exists a spirit of competition. These players may be "casual" (as loaded a word as that is), but they still desire victory. They aren't just piddling around making units because they look cool—they want to kill things! They want to win.
I concluded that using actual units was too abusive. Even though I didn't even know how the fuck to use Infestors properly, the fact that I made them and used them at all was just too much for a legitimately bronze player to handle. I needed to level the playing field, but I didn't want to frustrate myself by doing something like only using the mouse or restricting myself to a dozen workers. I figured it would be more aggravating than fun. Maybe another time. So I thought back to my earlier games where I turtled and got an idea.
I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Planetaries.
Not PF rushing mind you. Just PFs. Just placed on the map. I queued up for a game as Terran and got matched against a Protoss on Metalopolis. My opponent went for the typical terrified style of play that pervades the bronze league.
Fear, in cannon form.
I went CC first and built an Engineering Bay. I floated my new CC to my natural and transformed it into a PF. Then, I thought, "what the hell?" and just started building CCs everywhere. It's not like I was in danger of being attacked. Around 10 minutes, I got the bright idea to just take a bunch of SCVs and build some CCs right in front of his base. By the time he finally decided to move out of his shell with some Stalkers, they were already built and were turning into Planetaries. His Stalker force sat there and died while in his base he reacted swiftly by constructing double Stargates. Like so many other things that never change in bronze, everybody still loves their Void Rays. After the two Stargates completed, he evidently decided that a third one would be more aesthetically pleasing. His base now adequately stylish, he began building Void Rays as fast as he could remember. Not as fast as he could, of course, because he didn't know how to Chrono Boost.
After a while, he moved out with his small Void Ray force, but a group of turrets with both the Gretorp upgrades and a cadre of veteran SCVs to auto-repair them proved too much. They died after killing a turret or two. At some point before my siege started, he had snuck a probe out and made an expansion. Over the course of 20 minutes I repeatedly attempted to construct a base in his base before finally succeeding. Confused, distraught, out of money, and with the red dots spreading like a pox across the map, my opponent ceded defeat.
Seriously, minimaps like this should not exist outside of monobattles.
Well, that seemed to work. I was expecting a Colossus to eventually put the kibosh on my little scheme. Maybe he didn't know about them. Was there a "PF Rush: Part 1" blog in my future? Perhaps. I queued again and was fortunate enough to receive another Protoss, this time on Shattered Temple. I decided to attempt to build a Command Center directly in his base, but my SCV was greeted less than warmly.
I know when I'm not welcome, Jeez.
Undeterred and curious, I decided on a two-pronged assault. I would construct one CC below his ramp while simultaneously flying one in from my base, as we were in close air spawns. This approach was more than successful; the slow-moving buildings proved too much for my enemy to keep up with, and both CCs landed in his base and transformed into PFs. He attempted to make some cannons, but with the efforts of a few repairing SCVs they were unable to save his base. He, too, left silently.
Was this actually working? Was this abusive? Should a bronze player be expected to have enough units to stop a PF in their base? I decided they likely would not. And I certainly didn't expect them to know how to put a probe under it to prevent it from landing. So I chose against planting the PF directly in their base for now. The next game, Battle.net granted me yet another Protoss opponent. Karma clearly does not exist outside of Reddit. This time I built a CC in his natural and began mining from it. From there, unmolested from any sort of harassment from my opponent, I again covered all of Metalopolis in PFs and Orbitals. This opponent, too, tried Void rays and proved similarly unsuccessful. I'm not sure if these Void Rays they were making were a response to the PFs, or if forge > cannons on ramp > 2 Stargate Void Rays is standard PvT play for these people. I scanned his base and saw a Robotics Bay. I thought for sure my plan would fail this time as he could kill my entire operation with a single range upgraded colossus. He never got the upgrade, though. He spent all of his resources on a hodgepodge of random Protoss units, moved down the ramp, and died.
My screenshot folder is fucking weird.
His last spark of an idea was to construct a Warp Prism, fill it with probes, and establish a base somewhere. As this player had not scouted a single part of the map, either, he flew the Prism into unscouted turrets and left the game. His flame, too, had been extinguished.
The question then became: Is it fair to expect bronze players to know what a Colossus is? I mean, they know what Void Rays are, but Void Rays have a theme song with 2 million YouTube hits. Maybe if Colossi get a rap song made for them I'll start seeing them in bronze player's repertoires. To see if bronzies knew what a Colossus was, I queued until I got a PvP. I massed as many Photon cannons as I could, necessitating that he get some kind of siege weapon. When I did this against Terran, they got tanks. Would a bronze player get Colossi?
Nope.
His first attempt to kill me showed clear signs of intelligence. He loaded up a pair of Warp Prisms with zealots and attempted kill me from within. I had built cannons all around however, and the zealots died before they could get to my mineral line. Then, he gave mass Void Rays a try. Then, when those died, he made more Void Rays and eventually a Mothership and some Carriers. I'm not sure if he didn't know cannons detected, or if he just thought a Mothership would be cool. When his inefficient methods finally managed to eliminate all the pylons powering my cannons, I posed to him the question I had started this game to ask.
How the fuck can you not know why you did something?
I asked him if he knew that with the range upgrade Colossi outranged cannons, but was met with only silence. So with knowledge that bronze players are incapable of making Colossi, I decided on yet another approach. I found a TvT on Shattered temple. I killed a worker and lifted to the base protected by rocks. There, I figured I would erect as many Planetaries and turrets as would fit and then wait for the fail to come to me. Clearly building things near them gave me too great of an advantage. Surely a bronze Terran, who I had already confirmed on multiple occasions know what siege tanks are, would be able to easily defeat such a stupidly conceived fortress.
I must say I'm getting quite good at Starcraft art, if not the art of Starcraft.
After I ran out of resources, I tabbed out. Left alone to his own devices, my opponent did a series of strange things. He didn't scout for ages, of course. He took the gold base by putting an unupgraded CC next to the rocks instead of killing them with the marines and marauders he had already produced. After he finally scanned and found me, he flew a bunch of Banshees and a Raven into turrets. Then, he tried a bunch of Bio and tanks. Unfortunately…
This is like watching a cat run head first into a sliding glass door.
He had siege mode, he just didn't use it. The high ground vision mechanic seemed to be vexing him. Repeatedly he moved his forces into the wall and repeatedly his forces were incinerated. Finally, after a moment of reflection, he thought to kill the rocks. He managed to kill a single PF before his tanks, still woefully unsieged, died to the Planetary Fortress shots. Back at home, he began making Thors and, inexplicably, a bunch of Starports which would never get used and a bunch of CCs which, for some reason, he transformed into PFs inside his own base. Eventually, he tried nuking. He build 4 ghosts, cloaked despite the presence of turrets, and moved them in position to nuke only to have them shot down by the PFs before the missile could land. Confused, he asked "are you even there?" which, because I wasn't, I did not reply. After an hour of trial and error, he eventually settled on using a bunch of Thors to break down my PFs. Hearing the noise in the background, tabbed in to ask the obvious question:
I did what, now?
As the score screen came up I noticed something terrifying. He was silver. What in the fuck? How could this be? This was too stupid to be. This wasn't happening, right? Planetaries don't move! I checked back a few days later and fortunately for my sanity, he was eventually demoted to bronze.
Tired of long games and contemplating the difference between bronze and silver, I decided to just viciously PF rush a few times. I would hide an Engineering bay on the map somewhere and proxy a CC before floating it into their base loaded with SCVs and turning it into a PF. I ended up going something like 5-0 against Protoss with this strategy. I lost against the Terran who I tried it against (or rather, I left the game after he lifted off and moved his orbital) and of course against Zerg it doesn't mechanically work. So if anyone was wondering, yeah, PF rushing works.
Perhaps a little too well.
To defeat it, you have to scout, which they aren't going to do. Or, you have to prevent it from landing in the first place, which they don't know how to do. Or, barring that, you have to save up 400 minerals to build a Nexus elsewhere and counterattack my main, which they would never think to do. For all those reasons, it is far too complicated a strategy for a bronze player to defeat with any reliability.
I was tasked again with finding a strategy that bronzies could easily beat and was quick to execute. I couldn't think of anything but worker rushing, but I had already done that to death. Then, my mind wandered back to a forum poster who suggested I worker rush, but at the start of the game calmly explain how to defeat it. It was perfect! It was stupid, it should never work, and I could do it repeatedly to gauge their bronze reactions. And maybe someone would resist the urge to rage at me and actually learn something! What could be better?
I constructed the advisory as clearly as I could and set it to my clipboard so I could paste it at the start of each game. I then created a series of follow up questions. If they won, I would ask them if they knew how to attack move before that game. If they lost I would ask them why they did not follow my advice, asking specifically if they thought I was trying to trick them.
If I have to tell you how to select things, I give up.
My first opponent replied to my warning with "kk," and then proceeded to not attack move, focus fire individual workers, and lose. He did not answer my next questions, instead choosing to say "lol" and "gg." My second opponent 6 pooled and lost. My third opponent was a master leaguer enjoying his time off in the bronze league. He of course won without needing the instructions. Funnily, he had actually been planning to worker rush me and, mistaking my message for that of a bots, returned to mine and then crushed my assault. We shared a laugh, talked about how shit battle.net is, and discussed worker rushing. Regrettably, the battle.net servers went down for maintenance mid conversation, so shoutout to that guy if you're reading this. My fourth opponent berated me for "wasting a placement match," whatever that means, and then left the game after not attack moving.
At this point, I was a little bit distraught. So far, the only sane person I found met was in the master league. I searched for and won another game. 4-1. Four to one. How? The one game I lost barely even counted for the purposes of this experiment! This wasn't happening. You can't go 4-1 worker rushing people after explicitly telling each of them how to beat it. That's just more retarded than should be allowed. Sanity strained, I pressed on. I had set a goal for myself of 50 games with this method. My sixth, or fifth legitimately bronze opponent beat me, but not before trying to confuse me in other, more subtle ways.
How many years do you think it will be before the English language is reduced to a series of grunts?
On and on this went, until at last something hopeful happened. Something that in some small part would renew my faith in humanity. Maybe.
I'm still too jaded to be completely sure this is not sarcasm.
Even if it was fake niceness, it was still nice. I would take what I could get.
Out of 50 games, I won 28 of them. I won more than half of my games where not only was I doing the worst strategy possible, but after explaining in great detail how to beat that strategy. If this is not proof enough that something is terribly wrong in bronze, I don't know what is. Of the 22 games I lost, 3 players said they learned what attack move was from my message. 2 players were master leaguers and of course didn't need my message. The remaining players either said they already knew what attack move was or refused to respond. Of the 28 games I won, 4 people were either Spanish or Portuguese speaking and could not read the message. 3 more people admitted to believing I was trying to trick them with my message. Which leaves 21 people who are just bafflingly stupid or just outright ignored me.
The games themselves were average as far as worker rushes go. Some people tried to lift off, one guy tried to base trade, the others tried things that weren't attack moving and lost. I had hoped that maybe this was my ticket out of bronze. Maybe I could round up my last wins needed for the Dark Voice icon and educate enough bronzies along the way that this would stop working. I could burn this bridge so that neither I, nor anyone else seeking to follow in my footsteps could traverse it again. Sadly, though, most bronze players simply don't want to learn. It seems almost any strategy performed by a capable enough player is able to beat a bronze leaguer. We all knew that, though. The thing is, I would hardly call myself capable. That's where the mindfuck comes in: I'm not good at this game. So to uncover a group of people who appear to be willfully worse than even me is just madness.
I don’t want to write and I doubt you want to read any more worker rush battle reports, so here's a few choice encounters. As always, read the in-game chat log bubbles bottom to top.
wow. interesting read, especially the part about how bronzies were oblivious to the fact that they were bad-- exactly how i acted when i was in bronze, now i've shapened up, and am in masters. i wish i had someone like you to guide me back then xD
Took me a while to read through it as I'm mulittasking as usual but it was well written and amusing. Thanks a lot, but I believe you are right about Bronze and the cognitive dissonance . I have some friends who got into SC2 beta and before that really only played World of Warcraft, they would play 4v4s and other such silliness and brag to me constantly about how awesome they were at SC2.
One day I decided to play a 4v4 with them to witness their skills and they were all typical bronze players. One of them was actually in silver league but our 4v4 consisted of the 3 of them sitting in their bases hoping not to die while I roamed around the map with marine tank viking killing everything. At the end they didn't even seem to realize that they hadn't pulled their weight. Simply 'not losing' seemed as if it was enough.
One of these friends I still have Real ID and despite apparently quitting WoW in favor of playing SC2 he hasn't improved is still bronze and I'm scared to play with him again as it's been over a year and he has seemingly not improved. What is strange to me is that these are players who were actually relatively good at WoW they were above average, they knew how the game worked and didn't fall into the traps of being bad WoW players. They were competent at PvP, arena, raiding etc. Yet thrown into a completely new game which they'd had no exposure to they were like mewling kittens helpless to do anything.
The others have long since quit StarCraft without improving even despite the hour or so I spent with them on vent after our eventful 4v4 making them 1v1 each other while I tried desperately in vain to make my friends not terrible at Starcraft.
Sorry for my post not being as well written and punctuated as yours but I'm in a bit of a rush and I figured I'd give you at least some confirmation.
Hey dharmok had a good idea. I mean if you're doing it, maybe he assumed there was a good reason for it and that those rushes can work?? And that you were trying to trick him with your advice. Perhaps he isn't aware that all harvesting units do the same amount of damage at the same rate of fire, or just gets confused and freaks out!
Anyways just wanted to support the bronzies. They get so much crap, but they're mostly cute fun players from what I've read. Most of them are probably kids... so got to be nice to them
I understand you. I began to play Dota, and from Brazil I gave Garena a shot, just because didnt know anywhere else to play. I'm no good at all, and I know about that. But having the BW past, I seached for some information of the game, watch streams of players/tourneys, so I have some knowledge about most of the aspects of the game, just need to practice. My pc sucks hard, sometimes I get some lag in the game, so I mostly play as a support role, a missing from pubs as all should know. And I can see these characteristics you mentioned. Like the people who charges when all enemy heroes are together, and he goes alone, and after the yells at the team. Besides that awful move, he swears at the team, calling "noobs" and worse. They can't stand being corrected, so they swear. This is VERY common, like a Zeus saying that is lane (mid against pudge) is way harder than mine (sentinel solo bot Dark Seer against Furion/Pugna, and Furion lvl2 from the start because one player rushed to one tower, died to furion and left the game). But the most common is just leaving the game (see above). What I think is that they don't want to get better, because everyone can search a little for knowing, or listening to other people. Because of the anonymity of the internet, they feel superior, a god (please Flash, don't kill me), and all other are a dumbass who don't know anything. If you want some help in portuguese for more undestanding, I can help. Oh, sorry for any grammar mistakes .
Fascinating. This blog has inspired me to delve in the depths of Bronze myself. Although, the people I meet seem to know how to make an army, maybe I'm not low enough.
These blogs make me hate myself. The way those players are is exactly how I was when I first played the game. It took me from February of 2011 to July of 2011 to get out of bronze, and I still lost to worker rushes/six pools in Silver. I didn't know what A-move was until someone showed and told me how to do it.
ok first of all i didn't read this all the way through because what the hell are you doing seriously? this is starcraft II, this isn't starcraft: brood war, there aren't skilled players at F level or D- or whatever the equivalent is that you're arguing exists. in fact, bronze league doesn't even exist as far as i know. the entire diatribe about getting into bronze league, playing in bronze league, or even reaching bronze league from the placement matches is absurd.
as far as i'm concerned bronze league is starcraft ii. i think it's been said, many times, many ways, by the good people of TL.net, at least those who are scholars of the game, true scholars and not just the run-of-the-mill 'n00b' that's running around these forums since 2010 or whenever it was that 'starcraft' 2 showed up. but frankly the only good thing about the new version of a great game is that we can think about total annhilation and how supreme commander was maybe possibly a true successor to that game, but as far as 'starcraft 2' i think WIII was a much more successful and abbreviated game that actually involved some micro and not just a-move terran death balls and protoss death balls and zerg fail balls running around in a virtually incoherent and almost completely nonsensical formation without any reference to unit pathing or some kind of logic stream of flowing combat with units in reasonable locations so that they don't all die at once to one big stupid fucking reaver blast.
now that was a great unit. the reaver. i think there should be a whole thread devoted to the reaver because it was the best unit in any game ever. the reaver catches a lot of flak because of its use as a unit that doesn't kill anything and everything (SEE KROGOTH)
plus your thread is just spam because it involves a milliino pictures. like serious i spent probably 10 minutes disecting and trying to figure out what it was saying and then you just spam it with a bunch of incoherent bronze league pictures and screen shots taken at angles that aren't even possible as though you were manipulating the camera angeles during the battle and how did you do that when you should be taking the time to control your troops? are you using stimulants against your bronze league opponents? that doesn't seem fair the bronziers... how are they gonna compete with you when you're abusing designer amphetamines like vyvanse and over-the-counter products like methamphetamine (which are commonly sold in my home state of ALABAMA).
apparently they make that stuff from battery acid. or so they say.
now let me show you a real game and how to crush some fucking bronze league n00bs X17 style as we used to say back in the golden days of gaming. the real gamers on the site, the founders, the elkies, the rekruls, the djwheats and that other guy with a smiilar name, froz, and fira and GRRRRR and other real gamers like boxer and julyzerg and the koreans like
Lil' Ill (aka ACTION) and JulyJunior (JulyJR A.K.A. Leenock) are true gamers who are following in the footsteps of the professionals like Jaedong and Effort carried the mantel of July and Savior and iloveoov was a true successor to the Emperor and Kingdom and Reach and Nal_rA AND GARIMTO THE TERMINATOR PROTOSS and true professional gamers who had a true love of the game and played a real game like this weakass SC2 is checkers to chess and i can already tell i'm gonna get banned again but i'm gonna teach you chobos how to play like a real gamer played when real video games were available and there were no monthly fees and you survived by your wits and you didn't bow down to the so-called champions of the age but you played them in respectable combat on maps like 255 F&F
and you definitely don't play zerg on that map because your larva wont' spawn fast enough (but that's somethign you can remedy in the SC2 editor which is nice) lol
anyway i don't wanna type a whole fucking dissertation so i'll just use youtube which is way better than your one-frame shots anyway
so check it. yeah there's no sound here, and i hate to rain on your 'color parade' with my black and white no sound video but frankly what you've posted is a disgrace to this forum and the good people who have spent their lives and their hopes and dreams and their tears and their joys and their blood and their guts to create the great haven of gaming that we call Seoul South Korea and the e-sports domain.
so there, now you can see some real gaming and how it looks and how it's supposed to be done by people who knew how to play and knew what a game looked like and didn't spend all their time worrying about grammatical correctness and whether the new-school mods like chill and 'jibba' and these other guys would 'get it'...
frankly the quality standards on this site have gone way down ever since the enforced standards went way up. you guys are suppressing creativity and creating an artificial hierarchy that prevents the truly skiled players from rising to the top. that's why guys like destinya nd incontrol are forcing themselves to stream their games live and it's costing great players like nony and idra the victories that they truly deserve (although some of that is nony's fault for changing his name to tyler)
anyway, the truly skilled defensive masters such as artosis understand or see or know or appreciate or value-highly the true skill as it is showcased by champions of the times past like the great lee yoon yeol who is probably the only player that has shown true terran skill other than boxer and MMA in games that i've watched in GSL. i'm not at all impressed by artosis's pick of bomber, but other than that i think he makes some decent predictions and i'm looking forward to crushing him when i return to SC2 in HoTS. i've decided to play protoss which i think is gonna be awesome once the colossus is removed and other nerfs are made and stuff is changed and improved so that things are better and i'm not just walking around force fielding everything. i feel like the true life line of protoss should be psi storm as it was always meant to be and not this weakass defensive shit. psi storm is defense, u fool, it prevents the zerg from engaging in a variety of spots where otherwise they could achieve cost effectiveness (assuming there is no reaver and don't even mention the colossus)
plus when it comes time to combat, you can effectively deny attack arcs and a variety of things that are problematic for you and advantageous to the zerg (one though) with the proper and accurate placement of psi storm.
feedback should not be a templar ability (duh?) talk about OP... lol
plus archons should be good. i'm not sure if they are. i remember they weren't when their range was 3 but now it's 4 or should it be 5? i dunno frankly i think that the archon is supposed to be a badass and there shouldn't be this obvious power disparity between the archon and the ultralisk. and immortals hard-countering ultralisks like they do, to the extent that they do is absurd. it's like, ok, if i kill all the little stuff with storm or (GOD FORBID COLOSSUS) then i can just clean everything up easily with my immortal where everything is ultralisk because everything else zerg has is countered by the colossus lol and of course you have to use corruptors or some other bullshit to counter the colossus and if you'd just take that unit out of the game (which looks stupid) i think there would be the potential for protoss to be an interesting race once more.
but alas we're devoted to the colossii and they're just great units and despite their idiotic appearance, their absurd range coupled with their speed and their utterly boring micro they're just great and the only thing that can counter them efficiently is the viking or the corruptor in some cases and frankly i don't see how the colossus made it into a $100M game to begin with but it's great and i hope it's still there in heart of the swarm.
anyway, back to the reaver. i see that you assembled your probes in the formation of a reaver which was very clever much like the reaver sentry that was built on the SCMapster site (which needs more love).
anyway someone should get word to evil geniuses and especially incontrol that something like 90% of his problem as a gamer is the fact that he has too much 'slow twitch muscle' from all of his useless weightlifting. if he had fast-twitch muscle and stuff that was actually conducive to playing starcraft he'd probably win a lot more and stop dropping games to under-skilled newbies like destiny who is actually pretty good but he has some mental blocks that he needs to overcome if he's ever gonna excel as a gamer.
anyway i'm hoping to see good performances by idra and i think tasteless and artosis should do some counseling or coaching with the korean OGS and TL and EG teams and i think that with the combined knowledge of those people the game could be advanced a great deal. and maybe even be at some point a worthy successor to starcraft I, the original and best starcraft.
check out kingdom
now this guy is a true protoss who is nearly forgotten in the history books. he's fucking awesome had like 400 apm and was just beastly. he used dark archons and high templar and it was years before they became truly popular. so anyway i think it should be clear by now why feedback shouldn't be a high templar spell in starcraft 2 because that creates one super caster. the other problem is that there should be some convenient way to manage multiple caster types or caster groups or whatever maybe you could just combine the spell casting into one command thing so you don't have to tab through caster units and can just cast force field from sentries or whatever if they should even still have that spell i dunno it seems overpowered but frankly it's just not economical or reasonable to have to tab through casters when there's only less than 10 spells or so that they use on a consistent basis you could just put them all in one command card or whatever and there should be no problem with that.
god this game was so good
what an epic series like the great tassadar himself conspired to create it for the joy of the netizens
a true apprentice vs master rivalry going the full 5 games and ending in the master's defeat by the apprentice. a truly glorious moment the praises of which should be sung from the hills and high peaks of valhalla throughout the ages.
btw that map was pretty sweet the semi-island thing although i think it was taken out of competitive play due to it being abused by NTT or (maynard??) lol
reach vs iloveoov was another just absolutely incredible series the likes of which hasn't been seen since flash and jaedong MSL finals going the full and then the game was interrupted by technical difficulties.
anyway i hope that flash doesn't succumb to the dangers of carpal tunnel which has already lcaimed the lives of too many great gamers to this day.
i don't know why a bunch of these great games don't have commentary probably because of some racism toward the good folks of korea by the evil corporations preventing the captioning and the updating of the soundcard onboard of some computers.
don't ask me what i mean by that.
lol it's been forever since i watched chojja but he's one of my favoirte players because whenever he's about to lose he gets this clever grin on his face that's like 'lol fool'
chojja is sick and this is obviously gonna be a great game because it sounds like it's set to the musical sounds of Megaman X which was another great game in its own right but single-player games are a lot more difficult to popularize amongst multiple players at one time lol
well anyway
this was one of the first lesbian porns that i watched but i think it was pretty clear that of the two players tossgirl came more prepared
tossgirl looked a lot more masculine back then lol, still sexy tho
lol
back when shit was real and you had to arrive in your booth wearing samurai armor
dunno what this shit is
anyway
so that's just some random game between nada and tempest from google video and i'm like 900% sure that it's gonna be awesome without even watching it because i just don't have the time... well i do but i'm gearing up for a night of raiding and i'm sure that's gonna be a blast even though i'm only level 20 or less and i can't even raid yet but it'll be good anyway. so that's the future is we're all gonna be playing these gayass MMOs and real games with real strategy and real tactics and shit are pretty much out the window as corporations try to dumb down the american consumer into a droid
i dunno if that's actually true like if it's an insidious plot or if people are just trying to make money and it's not working because the quickest way (currently) or previously is to exploit tendencies that are like 'leaks' or something in poker and people are just raping themselves or whatever and it's probably easily avoidable with some intelligent oversight so the democrats win and obama gets elected to a second term with ron paul as his vice president and almost everyone lives happily ever after but not the muslims because you can't talk about them without someone blowing you up but we're all hoping for the best and it'll probably take a couple generations but i'm sure we can get there if we legalize marijuana and allow people to begin to perceive their own problems and handle them with some rationality or intelligibility or just being cognizant of the effects of their actions (that is karma or universal law or whatever the hindus have been calling it for a while now) and you can see why the indians are so depressed because we had the answers forever / answer forever ago but it just never gets published due to some hangups and corporate concerns and paranoia and general misunderstandings and misgivings that are hard to voice and difficult to enunciate or in other words imperceptible to the 'evil' people who suffer from various neuroses and stuff with similar definitions
anyway i think that this is a good argument for the continuation of the true spirit and game of starcraft as evidenced by Pusan vs Nada in the famous game of 42 gates and the legalization of marijuana which should now be called 720 or something that speaks to the christians because they're like the only population on earth still living in doubt as to whether or not it's a good idea (and it is) to legalize marijuana so that everyone can begin to function with more unity and many of the earth's problems can be solved with ease and accurate information which was denied people for various reasons by various parties with selfish concerns and a unified perspective like that of the great Korean mathematician whose name won't be mentioned here who sought a way to unify and see the Universe with accuracy thanks to the shield battery.
so that's pretty much the argument for the legalization of Starcraft in the United States and why I think that Starcraft is a great game and I think that we should try to get rid of cigarettes and the association of tobacco products with marijuana because they're quite different and there's pretty much nothing at all good that comes from the use of tobacco (jury's still out on caffeine but tobacco has been a known problem for a while and it's hard to imagine why that hasn't been solved but i think it has to do with some interested parties who are not being appropriate considerate of others) and that's why they say that everything i need to know i learned in kindergarten (kinder) (garden) lol get it?
yeah i dunno so it's just a play on words and i think that appropriate steps should be taken to legalize Starcraft and possibly even poker depending on how quickly other things can get done but particularly Starcraft and marijuana.
On February 20 2012 11:35 Failsafe wrote: ok first of all i didn't read this all the way through because what the hell are you doing seriously? this is starcraft II, this isn't starcraft: brood war, there aren't skilled players at F level or D- or whatever the equivalent is that you're arguing exists. in fact, bronze league doesn't even exist as far as i know. the entire diatribe about getting into bronze league, playing in bronze league, or even reaching bronze league from the placement matches is absurd.
as far as i'm concerned bronze league is starcraft ii. i think it's been said, many times, many ways, by the good people of TL.net, at least those who are scholars of the game, true scholars and not just the run-of-the-mill 'n00b' that's running around these forums since 2010 or whenever it was that 'starcraft' 2 showed up. but frankly the only good thing about the new version of a great game is that we can think about total annhilation and how supreme commander was maybe possibly a true successor to that game, but as far as 'starcraft 2' i think WIII was a much more successful and abbreviated game that actually involved some micro and not just a-move terran death balls and protoss death balls and zerg fail balls running around in a virtually incoherent and almost completely nonsensical formation without any reference to unit pathing or some kind of logic stream of flowing combat with units in reasonable locations so that they don't all die at once to one big stupid fucking reaver blast.
now that was a great unit. the reaver. i think there should be a whole thread devoted to the reaver because it was the best unit in any game ever. the reaver catches a lot of flak because of its use as a unit that doesn't kill anything and everything (SEE KROGOTH)
plus your thread is just spam because it involves a milliino pictures. like serious i spent probably 10 minutes disecting and trying to figure out what it was saying and then you just spam it with a bunch of incoherent bronze league pictures and screen shots taken at angles that aren't even possible as though you were manipulating the camera angeles during the battle and how did you do that when you should be taking the time to control your troops? are you using stimulants against your bronze league opponents? that doesn't seem fair the bronziers... how are they gonna compete with you when you're abusing designer amphetamines like vyvanse and over-the-counter products like methamphetamine (which are commonly sold in my home state of ALABAMA).
apparently they make that stuff from battery acid. or so they say.
now let me show you a real game and how to crush some fucking bronze league n00bs X17 style as we used to say back in the golden days of gaming. the real gamers on the site, the founders, the elkies, the rekruls, the djwheats and that other guy with a smiilar name, froz, and fira and GRRRRR and other real gamers like boxer and julyzerg and the koreans like
Lil' Ill (aka ACTION) and JulyJunior (JulyJR A.K.A. Leenock) are true gamers who are following in the footsteps of the professionals like Jaedong and Effort carried the mantel of July and Savior and iloveoov was a true successor to the Emperor and Kingdom and Reach and Nal_rA AND GARIMTO THE TERMINATOR PROTOSS and true professional gamers who had a true love of the game and played a real game like this weakass SC2 is checkers to chess and i can already tell i'm gonna get banned again but i'm gonna teach you chobos how to play like a real gamer played when real video games were available and there were no monthly fees and you survived by your wits and you didn't bow down to the so-called champions of the age but you played them in respectable combat on maps like 255 F&F
and you definitely don't play zerg on that map because your larva wont' spawn fast enough (but that's somethign you can remedy in the SC2 editor which is nice) lol
anyway i don't wanna type a whole fucking dissertation so i'll just use youtube which is way better than your one-frame shots anyway
so check it. yeah there's no sound here, and i hate to rain on your 'color parade' with my black and white no sound video but frankly what you've posted is a disgrace to this forum and the good people who have spent their lives and their hopes and dreams and their tears and their joys and their blood and their guts to create the great haven of gaming that we call Seoul South Korea and the e-sports domain.
so there, now you can see some real gaming and how it looks and how it's supposed to be done by people who knew how to play and knew what a game looked like and didn't spend all their time worrying about grammatical correctness and whether the new-school mods like chill and 'jibba' and these other guys would 'get it'...
frankly the quality standards on this site have gone way down ever since the enforced standards went way up. you guys are suppressing creativity and creating an artificial hierarchy that prevents the truly skiled players from rising to the top. that's why guys like destinya nd incontrol are forcing themselves to stream their games live and it's costing great players like nony and idra the victories that they truly deserve (although some of that is nony's fault for changing his name to tyler)
anyway, the truly skilled defensive masters such as artosis understand or see or know or appreciate or value-highly the true skill as it is showcased by champions of the times past like the great lee yoon yeol who is probably the only player that has shown true terran skill other than boxer and MMA in games that i've watched in GSL. i'm not at all impressed by artosis's pick of bomber, but other than that i think he makes some decent predictions and i'm looking forward to crushing him when i return to SC2 in HoTS. i've decided to play protoss which i think is gonna be awesome once the colossus is removed and other nerfs are made and stuff is changed and improved so that things are better and i'm not just walking around force fielding everything. i feel like the true life line of protoss should be psi storm as it was always meant to be and not this weakass defensive shit. psi storm is defense, u fool, it prevents the zerg from engaging in a variety of spots where otherwise they could achieve cost effectiveness (assuming there is no reaver and don't even mention the colossus)
plus when it comes time to combat, you can effectively deny attack arcs and a variety of things that are problematic for you and advantageous to the zerg (one though) with the proper and accurate placement of psi storm.
feedback should not be a templar ability (duh?) talk about OP... lol
plus archons should be good. i'm not sure if they are. i remember they weren't when their range was 3 but now it's 4 or should it be 5? i dunno frankly i think that the archon is supposed to be a badass and there shouldn't be this obvious power disparity between the archon and the ultralisk. and immortals hard-countering ultralisks like they do, to the extent that they do is absurd. it's like, ok, if i kill all the little stuff with storm or (GOD FORBID COLOSSUS) then i can just clean everything up easily with my immortal where everything is ultralisk because everything else zerg has is countered by the colossus lol and of course you have to use corruptors or some other bullshit to counter the colossus and if you'd just take that unit out of the game (which looks stupid) i think there would be the potential for protoss to be an interesting race once more.
but alas we're devoted to the colossii and they're just great units and despite their idiotic appearance, their absurd range coupled with their speed and their utterly boring micro they're just great and the only thing that can counter them efficiently is the viking or the corruptor in some cases and frankly i don't see how the colossus made it into a $100M game to begin with but it's great and i hope it's still there in heart of the swarm.
anyway, back to the reaver. i see that you assembled your probes in the formation of a reaver which was very clever much like the reaver sentry that was built on the SCMapster site (which needs more love).
anyway someone should get word to evil geniuses and especially incontrol that something like 90% of his problem as a gamer is the fact that he has too much 'slow twitch muscle' from all of his useless weightlifting. if he had fast-twitch muscle and stuff that was actually conducive to playing starcraft he'd probably win a lot more and stop dropping games to under-skilled newbies like destiny who is actually pretty good but he has some mental blocks that he needs to overcome if he's ever gonna excel as a gamer.
anyway i'm hoping to see good performances by idra and i think tasteless and artosis should do some counseling or coaching with the korean OGS and TL and EG teams and i think that with the combined knowledge of those people the game could be advanced a great deal. and maybe even be at some point a worthy successor to starcraft I, the original and best starcraft.
now this guy is a true protoss who is nearly forgotten in the history books. he's fucking awesome had like 400 apm and was just beastly. he used dark archons and high templar and it was years before they became truly popular. so anyway i think it should be clear by now why feedback shouldn't be a high templar spell in starcraft 2 because that creates one super caster. the other problem is that there should be some convenient way to manage multiple caster types or caster groups or whatever maybe you could just combine the spell casting into one command thing so you don't have to tab through caster units and can just cast force field from sentries or whatever if they should even still have that spell i dunno it seems overpowered but frankly it's just not economical or reasonable to have to tab through casters when there's only less than 10 spells or so that they use on a consistent basis you could just put them all in one command card or whatever and there should be no problem with that.
what an epic series like the great tassadar himself conspired to create it for the joy of the netizens
a true apprentice vs master rivalry going the full 5 games and ending in the master's defeat by the apprentice. a truly glorious moment the praises of which should be sung from the hills and high peaks of valhalla throughout the ages.
btw that map was pretty sweet the semi-island thing although i think it was taken out of competitive play due to it being abused by NTT or (maynard??) lol
reach vs iloveoov was another just absolutely incredible series the likes of which hasn't been seen since flash and jaedong MSL finals going the full and then the game was interrupted by technical difficulties.
anyway i hope that flash doesn't succumb to the dangers of carpal tunnel which has already lcaimed the lives of too many great gamers to this day.
i don't know why a bunch of these great games don't have commentary probably because of some racism toward the good folks of korea by the evil corporations preventing the captioning and the updating of the soundcard onboard of some computers.
don't ask me what i mean by that.
lol it's been forever since i watched chojja but he's one of my favoirte players because whenever he's about to lose he gets this clever grin on his face that's like 'lol fool'
chojja is sick and this is obviously gonna be a great game because it sounds like it's set to the musical sounds of Megaman X which was another great game in its own right but single-player games are a lot more difficult to popularize amongst multiple players at one time lol
well anyway
this was one of the first lesbian porns that i watched but i think it was pretty clear that of the two players tossgirl came more prepared
so that's just some random game between nada and tempest from google video and i'm like 900% sure that it's gonna be awesome without even watching it because i just don't have the time... well i do but i'm gearing up for a night of raiding and i'm sure that's gonna be a blast even though i'm only level 20 or less and i can't even raid yet but it'll be good anyway. so that's the future is we're all gonna be playing these gayass MMOs and real games with real strategy and real tactics and shit are pretty much out the window as corporations try to dumb down the american consumer into a droid
i dunno if that's actually true like if it's an insidious plot or if people are just trying to make money and it's not working because the quickest way (currently) or previously is to exploit tendencies that are like 'leaks' or something in poker and people are just raping themselves or whatever and it's probably easily avoidable with some intelligent oversight so the democrats win and obama gets elected to a second term with ron paul as his vice president and almost everyone lives happily ever after but not the muslims because you can't talk about them without someone blowing you up but we're all hoping for the best and it'll probably take a couple generations but i'm sure we can get there if we legalize marijuana and allow people to begin to perceive their own problems and handle them with some rationality or intelligibility or just being cognizant of the effects of their actions (that is karma or universal law or whatever the hindus have been calling it for a while now) and you can see why the indians are so depressed because we had the answers forever / answer forever ago but it just never gets published due to some hangups and corporate concerns and paranoia and general misunderstandings and misgivings that are hard to voice and difficult to enunciate or in other words imperceptible to the 'evil' people who suffer from various neuroses and stuff with similar definitions
anyway i think that this is a good argument for the continuation of the true spirit and game of starcraft as evidenced by Pusan vs Nada in the famous game of 42 gates and the legalization of marijuana which should now be called 720 or something that speaks to the christians because they're like the only population on earth still living in doubt as to whether or not it's a good idea (and it is) to legalize marijuana so that everyone can begin to function with more unity and many of the earth's problems can be solved with ease and accurate information which was denied people for various reasons by various parties with selfish concerns and a unified perspective like that of the great Korean mathematician whose name won't be mentioned here who sought a way to unify and see the Universe with accuracy thanks to the shield battery.
so that's pretty much the argument for the legalization of Starcraft in the United States and why I think that Starcraft is a great game and I think that we should try to get rid of cigarettes and the association of tobacco products with marijuana because they're quite different and there's pretty much nothing at all good that comes from the use of tobacco (jury's still out on caffeine but tobacco has been a known problem for a while and it's hard to imagine why that hasn't been solved but i think it has to do with some interested parties who are not being appropriate considerate of others) and that's why they say that everything i need to know i learned in kindergarten (kinder) (garden) lol get it?
yeah i dunno so it's just a play on words and i think that appropriate steps should be taken to legalize Starcraft and possibly even poker depending on how quickly other things can get done but particularly Starcraft and marijuana.
This is simultaneously the best and worst thing I have read on TL.
On February 20 2012 11:35 Failsafe wrote: ok first of all i didn't read this all the way through because what the hell are you doing seriously? this is starcraft II, this isn't starcraft: brood war, there aren't skilled players at F level or D- or whatever the equivalent is that you're arguing exists. in fact, bronze league doesn't even exist as far as i know. the entire diatribe about getting into bronze league, playing in bronze league, or even reaching bronze league from the placement matches is absurd.
as far as i'm concerned bronze league is starcraft ii. i think it's been said, many times, many ways, by the good people of TL.net, at least those who are scholars of the game, true scholars and not just the run-of-the-mill 'n00b' that's running around these forums since 2010 or whenever it was that 'starcraft' 2 showed up. but frankly the only good thing about the new version of a great game is that we can think about total annhilation and how supreme commander was maybe possibly a true successor to that game, but as far as 'starcraft 2' i think WIII was a much more successful and abbreviated game that actually involved some micro and not just a-move terran death balls and protoss death balls and zerg fail balls running around in a virtually incoherent and almost completely nonsensical formation without any reference to unit pathing or some kind of logic stream of flowing combat with units in reasonable locations so that they don't all die at once to one big stupid fucking reaver blast.
now that was a great unit. the reaver. i think there should be a whole thread devoted to the reaver because it was the best unit in any game ever. the reaver catches a lot of flak because of its use as a unit that doesn't kill anything and everything (SEE KROGOTH)
plus your thread is just spam because it involves a milliino pictures. like serious i spent probably 10 minutes disecting and trying to figure out what it was saying and then you just spam it with a bunch of incoherent bronze league pictures and screen shots taken at angles that aren't even possible as though you were manipulating the camera angeles during the battle and how did you do that when you should be taking the time to control your troops? are you using stimulants against your bronze league opponents? that doesn't seem fair the bronziers... how are they gonna compete with you when you're abusing designer amphetamines like vyvanse and over-the-counter products like methamphetamine (which are commonly sold in my home state of ALABAMA).
apparently they make that stuff from battery acid. or so they say.
now let me show you a real game and how to crush some fucking bronze league n00bs X17 style as we used to say back in the golden days of gaming. the real gamers on the site, the founders, the elkies, the rekruls, the djwheats and that other guy with a smiilar name, froz, and fira and GRRRRR and other real gamers like boxer and julyzerg and the koreans like
Lil' Ill (aka ACTION) and JulyJunior (JulyJR A.K.A. Leenock) are true gamers who are following in the footsteps of the professionals like Jaedong and Effort carried the mantel of July and Savior and iloveoov was a true successor to the Emperor and Kingdom and Reach and Nal_rA AND GARIMTO THE TERMINATOR PROTOSS and true professional gamers who had a true love of the game and played a real game like this weakass SC2 is checkers to chess and i can already tell i'm gonna get banned again but i'm gonna teach you chobos how to play like a real gamer played when real video games were available and there were no monthly fees and you survived by your wits and you didn't bow down to the so-called champions of the age but you played them in respectable combat on maps like 255 F&F
and you definitely don't play zerg on that map because your larva wont' spawn fast enough (but that's somethign you can remedy in the SC2 editor which is nice) lol
anyway i don't wanna type a whole fucking dissertation so i'll just use youtube which is way better than your one-frame shots anyway
so check it. yeah there's no sound here, and i hate to rain on your 'color parade' with my black and white no sound video but frankly what you've posted is a disgrace to this forum and the good people who have spent their lives and their hopes and dreams and their tears and their joys and their blood and their guts to create the great haven of gaming that we call Seoul South Korea and the e-sports domain.
so there, now you can see some real gaming and how it looks and how it's supposed to be done by people who knew how to play and knew what a game looked like and didn't spend all their time worrying about grammatical correctness and whether the new-school mods like chill and 'jibba' and these other guys would 'get it'...
frankly the quality standards on this site have gone way down ever since the enforced standards went way up. you guys are suppressing creativity and creating an artificial hierarchy that prevents the truly skiled players from rising to the top. that's why guys like destinya nd incontrol are forcing themselves to stream their games live and it's costing great players like nony and idra the victories that they truly deserve (although some of that is nony's fault for changing his name to tyler)
anyway, the truly skilled defensive masters such as artosis understand or see or know or appreciate or value-highly the true skill as it is showcased by champions of the times past like the great lee yoon yeol who is probably the only player that has shown true terran skill other than boxer and MMA in games that i've watched in GSL. i'm not at all impressed by artosis's pick of bomber, but other than that i think he makes some decent predictions and i'm looking forward to crushing him when i return to SC2 in HoTS. i've decided to play protoss which i think is gonna be awesome once the colossus is removed and other nerfs are made and stuff is changed and improved so that things are better and i'm not just walking around force fielding everything. i feel like the true life line of protoss should be psi storm as it was always meant to be and not this weakass defensive shit. psi storm is defense, u fool, it prevents the zerg from engaging in a variety of spots where otherwise they could achieve cost effectiveness (assuming there is no reaver and don't even mention the colossus)
plus when it comes time to combat, you can effectively deny attack arcs and a variety of things that are problematic for you and advantageous to the zerg (one though) with the proper and accurate placement of psi storm.
feedback should not be a templar ability (duh?) talk about OP... lol
plus archons should be good. i'm not sure if they are. i remember they weren't when their range was 3 but now it's 4 or should it be 5? i dunno frankly i think that the archon is supposed to be a badass and there shouldn't be this obvious power disparity between the archon and the ultralisk. and immortals hard-countering ultralisks like they do, to the extent that they do is absurd. it's like, ok, if i kill all the little stuff with storm or (GOD FORBID COLOSSUS) then i can just clean everything up easily with my immortal where everything is ultralisk because everything else zerg has is countered by the colossus lol and of course you have to use corruptors or some other bullshit to counter the colossus and if you'd just take that unit out of the game (which looks stupid) i think there would be the potential for protoss to be an interesting race once more.
but alas we're devoted to the colossii and they're just great units and despite their idiotic appearance, their absurd range coupled with their speed and their utterly boring micro they're just great and the only thing that can counter them efficiently is the viking or the corruptor in some cases and frankly i don't see how the colossus made it into a $100M game to begin with but it's great and i hope it's still there in heart of the swarm.
anyway, back to the reaver. i see that you assembled your probes in the formation of a reaver which was very clever much like the reaver sentry that was built on the SCMapster site (which needs more love).
anyway someone should get word to evil geniuses and especially incontrol that something like 90% of his problem as a gamer is the fact that he has too much 'slow twitch muscle' from all of his useless weightlifting. if he had fast-twitch muscle and stuff that was actually conducive to playing starcraft he'd probably win a lot more and stop dropping games to under-skilled newbies like destiny who is actually pretty good but he has some mental blocks that he needs to overcome if he's ever gonna excel as a gamer.
anyway i'm hoping to see good performances by idra and i think tasteless and artosis should do some counseling or coaching with the korean OGS and TL and EG teams and i think that with the combined knowledge of those people the game could be advanced a great deal. and maybe even be at some point a worthy successor to starcraft I, the original and best starcraft.
now this guy is a true protoss who is nearly forgotten in the history books. he's fucking awesome had like 400 apm and was just beastly. he used dark archons and high templar and it was years before they became truly popular. so anyway i think it should be clear by now why feedback shouldn't be a high templar spell in starcraft 2 because that creates one super caster. the other problem is that there should be some convenient way to manage multiple caster types or caster groups or whatever maybe you could just combine the spell casting into one command thing so you don't have to tab through caster units and can just cast force field from sentries or whatever if they should even still have that spell i dunno it seems overpowered but frankly it's just not economical or reasonable to have to tab through casters when there's only less than 10 spells or so that they use on a consistent basis you could just put them all in one command card or whatever and there should be no problem with that.
what an epic series like the great tassadar himself conspired to create it for the joy of the netizens
a true apprentice vs master rivalry going the full 5 games and ending in the master's defeat by the apprentice. a truly glorious moment the praises of which should be sung from the hills and high peaks of valhalla throughout the ages.
btw that map was pretty sweet the semi-island thing although i think it was taken out of competitive play due to it being abused by NTT or (maynard??) lol
reach vs iloveoov was another just absolutely incredible series the likes of which hasn't been seen since flash and jaedong MSL finals going the full and then the game was interrupted by technical difficulties.
anyway i hope that flash doesn't succumb to the dangers of carpal tunnel which has already lcaimed the lives of too many great gamers to this day.
i don't know why a bunch of these great games don't have commentary probably because of some racism toward the good folks of korea by the evil corporations preventing the captioning and the updating of the soundcard onboard of some computers.
don't ask me what i mean by that.
lol it's been forever since i watched chojja but he's one of my favoirte players because whenever he's about to lose he gets this clever grin on his face that's like 'lol fool'
chojja is sick and this is obviously gonna be a great game because it sounds like it's set to the musical sounds of Megaman X which was another great game in its own right but single-player games are a lot more difficult to popularize amongst multiple players at one time lol
well anyway
this was one of the first lesbian porns that i watched but i think it was pretty clear that of the two players tossgirl came more prepared
so that's just some random game between nada and tempest from google video and i'm like 900% sure that it's gonna be awesome without even watching it because i just don't have the time... well i do but i'm gearing up for a night of raiding and i'm sure that's gonna be a blast even though i'm only level 20 or less and i can't even raid yet but it'll be good anyway. so that's the future is we're all gonna be playing these gayass MMOs and real games with real strategy and real tactics and shit are pretty much out the window as corporations try to dumb down the american consumer into a droid
i dunno if that's actually true like if it's an insidious plot or if people are just trying to make money and it's not working because the quickest way (currently) or previously is to exploit tendencies that are like 'leaks' or something in poker and people are just raping themselves or whatever and it's probably easily avoidable with some intelligent oversight so the democrats win and obama gets elected to a second term with ron paul as his vice president and almost everyone lives happily ever after but not the muslims because you can't talk about them without someone blowing you up but we're all hoping for the best and it'll probably take a couple generations but i'm sure we can get there if we legalize marijuana and allow people to begin to perceive their own problems and handle them with some rationality or intelligibility or just being cognizant of the effects of their actions (that is karma or universal law or whatever the hindus have been calling it for a while now) and you can see why the indians are so depressed because we had the answers forever / answer forever ago but it just never gets published due to some hangups and corporate concerns and paranoia and general misunderstandings and misgivings that are hard to voice and difficult to enunciate or in other words imperceptible to the 'evil' people who suffer from various neuroses and stuff with similar definitions
anyway i think that this is a good argument for the continuation of the true spirit and game of starcraft as evidenced by Pusan vs Nada in the famous game of 42 gates and the legalization of marijuana which should now be called 720 or something that speaks to the christians because they're like the only population on earth still living in doubt as to whether or not it's a good idea (and it is) to legalize marijuana so that everyone can begin to function with more unity and many of the earth's problems can be solved with ease and accurate information which was denied people for various reasons by various parties with selfish concerns and a unified perspective like that of the great Korean mathematician whose name won't be mentioned here who sought a way to unify and see the Universe with accuracy thanks to the shield battery.
so that's pretty much the argument for the legalization of Starcraft in the United States and why I think that Starcraft is a great game and I think that we should try to get rid of cigarettes and the association of tobacco products with marijuana because they're quite different and there's pretty much nothing at all good that comes from the use of tobacco (jury's still out on caffeine but tobacco has been a known problem for a while and it's hard to imagine why that hasn't been solved but i think it has to do with some interested parties who are not being appropriate considerate of others) and that's why they say that everything i need to know i learned in kindergarten (kinder) (garden) lol get it?
yeah i dunno so it's just a play on words and i think that appropriate steps should be taken to legalize Starcraft and possibly even poker depending on how quickly other things can get done but particularly Starcraft and marijuana.
ok first of all i didn't read this all the way through because what the hell are you doing seriously? this is starcraft II, this isn't starcraft: brood war, there aren't skilled players at F level or D- or whatever the equivalent is that you're arguing exists. in fact, bronze league doesn't even exist as far as i know. the entire diatribe about getting into bronze league, playing in bronze league, or even reaching bronze league from the placement matches is absurd.
as far as i'm concerned bronze league is starcraft ii. i think it's been said, many times, many ways, by the good people of TL.net, at least those who are scholars of the game, true scholars and not just the run-of-the-mill 'n00b' that's running around these forums since 2010 or whenever it was that 'starcraft' 2 showed up. but frankly the only good thing about the new version of a great game is that we can think about total annhilation and how supreme commander was maybe possibly a true successor to that game, but as far as 'starcraft 2' i think WIII was a much more successful and abbreviated game that actually involved some micro and not just a-move terran death balls and protoss death balls and zerg fail balls running around in a virtually incoherent and almost completely nonsensical formation without any reference to unit pathing or some kind of logic stream of flowing combat with units in reasonable locations so that they don't all die at once to one big stupid fucking reaver blast.
now that was a great unit. the reaver. i think there should be a whole thread devoted to the reaver because it was the best unit in any game ever. the reaver catches a lot of flak because of its use as a unit that doesn't kill anything and everything (SEE KROGOTH)
plus your thread is just spam because it involves a milliino pictures. like serious i spent probably 10 minutes disecting and trying to figure out what it was saying and then you just spam it with a bunch of incoherent bronze league pictures and screen shots taken at angles that aren't even possible as though you were manipulating the camera angeles during the battle and how did you do that when you should be taking the time to control your troops? are you using stimulants against your bronze league opponents? that doesn't seem fair the bronziers... how are they gonna compete with you when you're abusing designer amphetamines like vyvanse and over-the-counter products like methamphetamine (which are commonly sold in my home state of ALABAMA).
apparently they make that stuff from battery acid. or so they say.
now let me show you a real game and how to crush some fucking bronze league n00bs X17 style as we used to say back in the golden days of gaming. the real gamers on the site, the founders, the elkies, the rekruls, the djwheats and that other guy with a smiilar name, froz, and fira and GRRRRR and other real gamers like boxer and julyzerg and the koreans like
Lil' Ill (aka ACTION) and JulyJunior (JulyJR A.K.A. Leenock) are true gamers who are following in the footsteps of the professionals like Jaedong and Effort carried the mantel of July and Savior and iloveoov was a true successor to the Emperor and Kingdom and Reach and Nal_rA AND GARIMTO THE TERMINATOR PROTOSS and true professional gamers who had a true love of the game and played a real game like this weakass SC2 is checkers to chess and i can already tell i'm gonna get banned again but i'm gonna teach you chobos how to play like a real gamer played when real video games were available and there were no monthly fees and you survived by your wits and you didn't bow down to the so-called champions of the age but you played them in respectable combat on maps like 255 F&F
and you definitely don't play zerg on that map because your larva wont' spawn fast enough (but that's somethign you can remedy in the SC2 editor which is nice) lol
anyway i don't wanna type a whole fucking dissertation so i'll just use youtube which is way better than your one-frame shots anyway
so check it. yeah there's no sound here, and i hate to rain on your 'color parade' with my black and white no sound video but frankly what you've posted is a disgrace to this forum and the good people who have spent their lives and their hopes and dreams and their tears and their joys and their blood and their guts to create the great haven of gaming that we call Seoul South Korea and the e-sports domain.
so there, now you can see some real gaming and how it looks and how it's supposed to be done by people who knew how to play and knew what a game looked like and didn't spend all their time worrying about grammatical correctness and whether the new-school mods like chill and 'jibba' and these other guys would 'get it'...
frankly the quality standards on this site have gone way down ever since the enforced standards went way up. you guys are suppressing creativity and creating an artificial hierarchy that prevents the truly skiled players from rising to the top. that's why guys like destinya nd incontrol are forcing themselves to stream their games live and it's costing great players like nony and idra the victories that they truly deserve (although some of that is nony's fault for changing his name to tyler)
anyway, the truly skilled defensive masters such as artosis understand or see or know or appreciate or value-highly the true skill as it is showcased by champions of the times past like the great lee yoon yeol who is probably the only player that has shown true terran skill other than boxer and MMA in games that i've watched in GSL. i'm not at all impressed by artosis's pick of bomber, but other than that i think he makes some decent predictions and i'm looking forward to crushing him when i return to SC2 in HoTS. i've decided to play protoss which i think is gonna be awesome once the colossus is removed and other nerfs are made and stuff is changed and improved so that things are better and i'm not just walking around force fielding everything. i feel like the true life line of protoss should be psi storm as it was always meant to be and not this weakass defensive shit. psi storm is defense, u fool, it prevents the zerg from engaging in a variety of spots where otherwise they could achieve cost effectiveness (assuming there is no reaver and don't even mention the colossus)
plus when it comes time to combat, you can effectively deny attack arcs and a variety of things that are problematic for you and advantageous to the zerg (one though) with the proper and accurate placement of psi storm.
feedback should not be a templar ability (duh?) talk about OP... lol
plus archons should be good. i'm not sure if they are. i remember they weren't when their range was 3 but now it's 4 or should it be 5? i dunno frankly i think that the archon is supposed to be a badass and there shouldn't be this obvious power disparity between the archon and the ultralisk. and immortals hard-countering ultralisks like they do, to the extent that they do is absurd. it's like, ok, if i kill all the little stuff with storm or (GOD FORBID COLOSSUS) then i can just clean everything up easily with my immortal where everything is ultralisk because everything else zerg has is countered by the colossus lol and of course you have to use corruptors or some other bullshit to counter the colossus and if you'd just take that unit out of the game (which looks stupid) i think there would be the potential for protoss to be an interesting race once more.
but alas we're devoted to the colossii and they're just great units and despite their idiotic appearance, their absurd range coupled with their speed and their utterly boring micro they're just great and the only thing that can counter them efficiently is the viking or the corruptor in some cases and frankly i don't see how the colossus made it into a $100M game to begin with but it's great and i hope it's still there in heart of the swarm.
anyway, back to the reaver. i see that you assembled your probes in the formation of a reaver which was very clever much like the reaver sentry that was built on the SCMapster site (which needs more love).
anyway someone should get word to evil geniuses and especially incontrol that something like 90% of his problem as a gamer is the fact that he has too much 'slow twitch muscle' from all of his useless weightlifting. if he had fast-twitch muscle and stuff that was actually conducive to playing starcraft he'd probably win a lot more and stop dropping games to under-skilled newbies like destiny who is actually pretty good but he has some mental blocks that he needs to overcome if he's ever gonna excel as a gamer.
anyway i'm hoping to see good performances by idra and i think tasteless and artosis should do some counseling or coaching with the korean OGS and TL and EG teams and i think that with the combined knowledge of those people the game could be advanced a great deal. and maybe even be at some point a worthy successor to starcraft I, the original and best starcraft.
now this guy is a true protoss who is nearly forgotten in the history books. he's fucking awesome had like 400 apm and was just beastly. he used dark archons and high templar and it was years before they became truly popular. so anyway i think it should be clear by now why feedback shouldn't be a high templar spell in starcraft 2 because that creates one super caster. the other problem is that there should be some convenient way to manage multiple caster types or caster groups or whatever maybe you could just combine the spell casting into one command thing so you don't have to tab through caster units and can just cast force field from sentries or whatever if they should even still have that spell i dunno it seems overpowered but frankly it's just not economical or reasonable to have to tab through casters when there's only less than 10 spells or so that they use on a consistent basis you could just put them all in one command card or whatever and there should be no problem with that.
what an epic series like the great tassadar himself conspired to create it for the joy of the netizens
a true apprentice vs master rivalry going the full 5 games and ending in the master's defeat by the apprentice. a truly glorious moment the praises of which should be sung from the hills and high peaks of valhalla throughout the ages.
btw that map was pretty sweet the semi-island thing although i think it was taken out of competitive play due to it being abused by NTT or (maynard??) lol
reach vs iloveoov was another just absolutely incredible series the likes of which hasn't been seen since flash and jaedong MSL finals going the full and then the game was interrupted by technical difficulties.
anyway i hope that flash doesn't succumb to the dangers of carpal tunnel which has already lcaimed the lives of too many great gamers to this day.
i don't know why a bunch of these great games don't have commentary probably because of some racism toward the good folks of korea by the evil corporations preventing the captioning and the updating of the soundcard onboard of some computers.
don't ask me what i mean by that.
lol it's been forever since i watched chojja but he's one of my favoirte players because whenever he's about to lose he gets this clever grin on his face that's like 'lol fool'
chojja is sick and this is obviously gonna be a great game because it sounds like it's set to the musical sounds of Megaman X which was another great game in its own right but single-player games are a lot more difficult to popularize amongst multiple players at one time lol
well anyway
this was one of the first lesbian porns that i watched but i think it was pretty clear that of the two players tossgirl came more prepared
so that's just some random game between nada and tempest from google video and i'm like 900% sure that it's gonna be awesome without even watching it because i just don't have the time... well i do but i'm gearing up for a night of raiding and i'm sure that's gonna be a blast even though i'm only level 20 or less and i can't even raid yet but it'll be good anyway. so that's the future is we're all gonna be playing these gayass MMOs and real games with real strategy and real tactics and shit are pretty much out the window as corporations try to dumb down the american consumer into a droid
i dunno if that's actually true like if it's an insidious plot or if people are just trying to make money and it's not working because the quickest way (currently) or previously is to exploit tendencies that are like 'leaks' or something in poker and people are just raping themselves or whatever and it's probably easily avoidable with some intelligent oversight so the democrats win and obama gets elected to a second term with ron paul as his vice president and almost everyone lives happily ever after but not the muslims because you can't talk about them without someone blowing you up but we're all hoping for the best and it'll probably take a couple generations but i'm sure we can get there if we legalize marijuana and allow people to begin to perceive their own problems and handle them with some rationality or intelligibility or just being cognizant of the effects of their actions (that is karma or universal law or whatever the hindus have been calling it for a while now) and you can see why the indians are so depressed because we had the answers forever / answer forever ago but it just never gets published due to some hangups and corporate concerns and paranoia and general misunderstandings and misgivings that are hard to voice and difficult to enunciate or in other words imperceptible to the 'evil' people who suffer from various neuroses and stuff with similar definitions
anyway i think that this is a good argument for the continuation of the true spirit and game of starcraft as evidenced by Pusan vs Nada in the famous game of 42 gates and the legalization of marijuana which should now be called 720 or something that speaks to the christians because they're like the only population on earth still living in doubt as to whether or not it's a good idea (and it is) to legalize marijuana so that everyone can begin to function with more unity and many of the earth's problems can be solved with ease and accurate information which was denied people for various reasons by various parties with selfish concerns and a unified perspective like that of the great Korean mathematician whose name won't be mentioned here who sought a way to unify and see the Universe with accuracy thanks to the shield battery.
so that's pretty much the argument for the legalization of Starcraft in the United States and why I think that Starcraft is a great game and I think that we should try to get rid of cigarettes and the association of tobacco products with marijuana because they're quite different and there's pretty much nothing at all good that comes from the use of tobacco (jury's still out on caffeine but tobacco has been a known problem for a while and it's hard to imagine why that hasn't been solved but i think it has to do with some interested parties who are not being appropriate considerate of others) and that's why they say that everything i need to know i learned in kindergarten (kinder) (garden) lol get it?
yeah i dunno so it's just a play on words and i think that appropriate steps should be taken to legalize Starcraft and possibly even poker depending on how quickly other things can get done but particularly Starcraft and marijuana.
That was incredibly hilarious.
As for Gheed's continued journey to enlighten Bronzies, O what nobility! The Uromacef exchange has restored my faith in humanity.
I have a bronze friend IRL and talking with him about sc2 is relatively normal UNTIL I see him play a game. It's hilarious to know that we are both receiving the same information while he is playing and yet we reach two completely different conclusions. He tends to think his opponents are crap or this race is OP, when he's made so many errors that it's sad.
This article perfectly encapsulates my experience with him, attempting to apply reason to the bronze league.
The best comment in this entire thing has to be the response to "Why on earth did you go ebay first?" - "to build a planetary fortress... to kill your scv's" LOLOLOL
Another great instalment keep it up. I just worked out a brilliant accompaniment to reading your blogs; listening to yakety sax. It fits so well and my pleasure was roughly tripled.
...Wow. This is some trippy trippy trippy shit LOL. I'm sad that I was once in bronze league, but only for the first 2 months of play, one month of which I didn't know what a forum was P. It wasn't the hell it is now, though it was still quite bad. I agree, besides them thinking you were trying to trick them, why.... why would they not just.... do what they should know works... Like.. To the worst strategy... ever. Like I see this in my brothers but that's kinda excusable cus they're 10 and they only play cus they wanna be like me haha, a super gosu player who's the best ever, even though they follow the pro scene. Haha they watch my shitty diamond play and tell me I should be best in the world... I guess I'm a good big bro? XD
I got SC2 six months ago, the only RTS games I've played on PC before were Dune 2000, some version of C+C and R:TW, I only ever played vs computer and abused pause all the time to do things. So, SC2, I beat the campaign, I watched some Day[9] dailies, I practiced dual port cloaked banshees against medium computer to test the build order. I played a few practice matches then did my placements, dual port banshee all day every day, only scouting to see where they were and got placed in Silver and managed to get promoted to Gold.
Now that I've bothered to learn more than one build order I've just got in to Masters. I can't understand how there are people who can know about TL or /r/starcraft and are in bronze. Even if you only play one game a week if you can make the effort to ever watch an SC2 stream or event, or post about it online then you KNOW how to get better, and it really isn't hard.
I've never really encountered this, I did PF rush someone in one of my practice matches on Desert Oasis (Novice) as I'd seen some video about it and thought it was a hilarious joke but... I didn't expect it to work.
EDIT: I'm reading the /r/starcraft posts on this and all the people in bronze getting angry are just... the mind.. boggles. Not knowing what gas before rax means 99% of the time when scouting a T in bronze. AAAAAAAAARGH!!!! How can you die so many times to banshees and not see the connection!
you have to remember people in bronze dont need to know what gas first means, because people in bronze often take gas for no reason other than to mine the resources they are given, or take gasses late because they just take them when the remember what banshees need.
On February 20 2012 11:35 Failsafe wrote: ok first of all i didn't read this all the way through because what the hell are you doing seriously? this is starcraft II, this isn't starcraft: brood war, there aren't skilled players at F level or D- or whatever the equivalent is that you're arguing exists. in fact, bronze league doesn't even exist as far as i know. the entire diatribe about getting into bronze league, playing in bronze league, or even reaching bronze league from the placement matches is absurd.
as far as i'm concerned bronze league is starcraft ii. i think it's been said, many times, many ways, by the good people of TL.net, at least those who are scholars of the game, true scholars and not just the run-of-the-mill 'n00b' that's running around these forums since 2010 or whenever it was that 'starcraft' 2 showed up. but frankly the only good thing about the new version of a great game is that we can think about total annhilation and how supreme commander was maybe possibly a true successor to that game, but as far as 'starcraft 2' i think WIII was a much more successful and abbreviated game that actually involved some micro and not just a-move terran death balls and protoss death balls and zerg fail balls running around in a virtually incoherent and almost completely nonsensical formation without any reference to unit pathing or some kind of logic stream of flowing combat with units in reasonable locations so that they don't all die at once to one big stupid fucking reaver blast.
now that was a great unit. the reaver. i think there should be a whole thread devoted to the reaver because it was the best unit in any game ever. the reaver catches a lot of flak because of its use as a unit that doesn't kill anything and everything (SEE KROGOTH)
plus your thread is just spam because it involves a milliino pictures. like serious i spent probably 10 minutes disecting and trying to figure out what it was saying and then you just spam it with a bunch of incoherent bronze league pictures and screen shots taken at angles that aren't even possible as though you were manipulating the camera angeles during the battle and how did you do that when you should be taking the time to control your troops? are you using stimulants against your bronze league opponents? that doesn't seem fair the bronziers... how are they gonna compete with you when you're abusing designer amphetamines like vyvanse and over-the-counter products like methamphetamine (which are commonly sold in my home state of ALABAMA).
apparently they make that stuff from battery acid. or so they say.
now let me show you a real game and how to crush some fucking bronze league n00bs X17 style as we used to say back in the golden days of gaming. the real gamers on the site, the founders, the elkies, the rekruls, the djwheats and that other guy with a smiilar name, froz, and fira and GRRRRR and other real gamers like boxer and julyzerg and the koreans like
Lil' Ill (aka ACTION) and JulyJunior (JulyJR A.K.A. Leenock) are true gamers who are following in the footsteps of the professionals like Jaedong and Effort carried the mantel of July and Savior and iloveoov was a true successor to the Emperor and Kingdom and Reach and Nal_rA AND GARIMTO THE TERMINATOR PROTOSS and true professional gamers who had a true love of the game and played a real game like this weakass SC2 is checkers to chess and i can already tell i'm gonna get banned again but i'm gonna teach you chobos how to play like a real gamer played when real video games were available and there were no monthly fees and you survived by your wits and you didn't bow down to the so-called champions of the age but you played them in respectable combat on maps like 255 F&F
and you definitely don't play zerg on that map because your larva wont' spawn fast enough (but that's somethign you can remedy in the SC2 editor which is nice) lol
anyway i don't wanna type a whole fucking dissertation so i'll just use youtube which is way better than your one-frame shots anyway
so check it. yeah there's no sound here, and i hate to rain on your 'color parade' with my black and white no sound video but frankly what you've posted is a disgrace to this forum and the good people who have spent their lives and their hopes and dreams and their tears and their joys and their blood and their guts to create the great haven of gaming that we call Seoul South Korea and the e-sports domain.
so there, now you can see some real gaming and how it looks and how it's supposed to be done by people who knew how to play and knew what a game looked like and didn't spend all their time worrying about grammatical correctness and whether the new-school mods like chill and 'jibba' and these other guys would 'get it'...
frankly the quality standards on this site have gone way down ever since the enforced standards went way up. you guys are suppressing creativity and creating an artificial hierarchy that prevents the truly skiled players from rising to the top. that's why guys like destinya nd incontrol are forcing themselves to stream their games live and it's costing great players like nony and idra the victories that they truly deserve (although some of that is nony's fault for changing his name to tyler)
anyway, the truly skilled defensive masters such as artosis understand or see or know or appreciate or value-highly the true skill as it is showcased by champions of the times past like the great lee yoon yeol who is probably the only player that has shown true terran skill other than boxer and MMA in games that i've watched in GSL. i'm not at all impressed by artosis's pick of bomber, but other than that i think he makes some decent predictions and i'm looking forward to crushing him when i return to SC2 in HoTS. i've decided to play protoss which i think is gonna be awesome once the colossus is removed and other nerfs are made and stuff is changed and improved so that things are better and i'm not just walking around force fielding everything. i feel like the true life line of protoss should be psi storm as it was always meant to be and not this weakass defensive shit. psi storm is defense, u fool, it prevents the zerg from engaging in a variety of spots where otherwise they could achieve cost effectiveness (assuming there is no reaver and don't even mention the colossus)
plus when it comes time to combat, you can effectively deny attack arcs and a variety of things that are problematic for you and advantageous to the zerg (one though) with the proper and accurate placement of psi storm.
feedback should not be a templar ability (duh?) talk about OP... lol
plus archons should be good. i'm not sure if they are. i remember they weren't when their range was 3 but now it's 4 or should it be 5? i dunno frankly i think that the archon is supposed to be a badass and there shouldn't be this obvious power disparity between the archon and the ultralisk. and immortals hard-countering ultralisks like they do, to the extent that they do is absurd. it's like, ok, if i kill all the little stuff with storm or (GOD FORBID COLOSSUS) then i can just clean everything up easily with my immortal where everything is ultralisk because everything else zerg has is countered by the colossus lol and of course you have to use corruptors or some other bullshit to counter the colossus and if you'd just take that unit out of the game (which looks stupid) i think there would be the potential for protoss to be an interesting race once more.
but alas we're devoted to the colossii and they're just great units and despite their idiotic appearance, their absurd range coupled with their speed and their utterly boring micro they're just great and the only thing that can counter them efficiently is the viking or the corruptor in some cases and frankly i don't see how the colossus made it into a $100M game to begin with but it's great and i hope it's still there in heart of the swarm.
anyway, back to the reaver. i see that you assembled your probes in the formation of a reaver which was very clever much like the reaver sentry that was built on the SCMapster site (which needs more love).
anyway someone should get word to evil geniuses and especially incontrol that something like 90% of his problem as a gamer is the fact that he has too much 'slow twitch muscle' from all of his useless weightlifting. if he had fast-twitch muscle and stuff that was actually conducive to playing starcraft he'd probably win a lot more and stop dropping games to under-skilled newbies like destiny who is actually pretty good but he has some mental blocks that he needs to overcome if he's ever gonna excel as a gamer.
anyway i'm hoping to see good performances by idra and i think tasteless and artosis should do some counseling or coaching with the korean OGS and TL and EG teams and i think that with the combined knowledge of those people the game could be advanced a great deal. and maybe even be at some point a worthy successor to starcraft I, the original and best starcraft.
now this guy is a true protoss who is nearly forgotten in the history books. he's fucking awesome had like 400 apm and was just beastly. he used dark archons and high templar and it was years before they became truly popular. so anyway i think it should be clear by now why feedback shouldn't be a high templar spell in starcraft 2 because that creates one super caster. the other problem is that there should be some convenient way to manage multiple caster types or caster groups or whatever maybe you could just combine the spell casting into one command thing so you don't have to tab through caster units and can just cast force field from sentries or whatever if they should even still have that spell i dunno it seems overpowered but frankly it's just not economical or reasonable to have to tab through casters when there's only less than 10 spells or so that they use on a consistent basis you could just put them all in one command card or whatever and there should be no problem with that.
what an epic series like the great tassadar himself conspired to create it for the joy of the netizens
a true apprentice vs master rivalry going the full 5 games and ending in the master's defeat by the apprentice. a truly glorious moment the praises of which should be sung from the hills and high peaks of valhalla throughout the ages.
btw that map was pretty sweet the semi-island thing although i think it was taken out of competitive play due to it being abused by NTT or (maynard??) lol
reach vs iloveoov was another just absolutely incredible series the likes of which hasn't been seen since flash and jaedong MSL finals going the full and then the game was interrupted by technical difficulties.
anyway i hope that flash doesn't succumb to the dangers of carpal tunnel which has already lcaimed the lives of too many great gamers to this day.
i don't know why a bunch of these great games don't have commentary probably because of some racism toward the good folks of korea by the evil corporations preventing the captioning and the updating of the soundcard onboard of some computers.
don't ask me what i mean by that.
lol it's been forever since i watched chojja but he's one of my favoirte players because whenever he's about to lose he gets this clever grin on his face that's like 'lol fool'
chojja is sick and this is obviously gonna be a great game because it sounds like it's set to the musical sounds of Megaman X which was another great game in its own right but single-player games are a lot more difficult to popularize amongst multiple players at one time lol
well anyway
this was one of the first lesbian porns that i watched but i think it was pretty clear that of the two players tossgirl came more prepared
so that's just some random game between nada and tempest from google video and i'm like 900% sure that it's gonna be awesome without even watching it because i just don't have the time... well i do but i'm gearing up for a night of raiding and i'm sure that's gonna be a blast even though i'm only level 20 or less and i can't even raid yet but it'll be good anyway. so that's the future is we're all gonna be playing these gayass MMOs and real games with real strategy and real tactics and shit are pretty much out the window as corporations try to dumb down the american consumer into a droid
i dunno if that's actually true like if it's an insidious plot or if people are just trying to make money and it's not working because the quickest way (currently) or previously is to exploit tendencies that are like 'leaks' or something in poker and people are just raping themselves or whatever and it's probably easily avoidable with some intelligent oversight so the democrats win and obama gets elected to a second term with ron paul as his vice president and almost everyone lives happily ever after but not the muslims because you can't talk about them without someone blowing you up but we're all hoping for the best and it'll probably take a couple generations but i'm sure we can get there if we legalize marijuana and allow people to begin to perceive their own problems and handle them with some rationality or intelligibility or just being cognizant of the effects of their actions (that is karma or universal law or whatever the hindus have been calling it for a while now) and you can see why the indians are so depressed because we had the answers forever / answer forever ago but it just never gets published due to some hangups and corporate concerns and paranoia and general misunderstandings and misgivings that are hard to voice and difficult to enunciate or in other words imperceptible to the 'evil' people who suffer from various neuroses and stuff with similar definitions
anyway i think that this is a good argument for the continuation of the true spirit and game of starcraft as evidenced by Pusan vs Nada in the famous game of 42 gates and the legalization of marijuana which should now be called 720 or something that speaks to the christians because they're like the only population on earth still living in doubt as to whether or not it's a good idea (and it is) to legalize marijuana so that everyone can begin to function with more unity and many of the earth's problems can be solved with ease and accurate information which was denied people for various reasons by various parties with selfish concerns and a unified perspective like that of the great Korean mathematician whose name won't be mentioned here who sought a way to unify and see the Universe with accuracy thanks to the shield battery.
so that's pretty much the argument for the legalization of Starcraft in the United States and why I think that Starcraft is a great game and I think that we should try to get rid of cigarettes and the association of tobacco products with marijuana because they're quite different and there's pretty much nothing at all good that comes from the use of tobacco (jury's still out on caffeine but tobacco has been a known problem for a while and it's hard to imagine why that hasn't been solved but i think it has to do with some interested parties who are not being appropriate considerate of others) and that's why they say that everything i need to know i learned in kindergarten (kinder) (garden) lol get it?
yeah i dunno so it's just a play on words and i think that appropriate steps should be taken to legalize Starcraft and possibly even poker depending on how quickly other things can get done but particularly Starcraft and marijuana.
What is this post lol
Hahaha, is this a repost from somewhere else? I can't imagine anyone putting in this amount of effort for something that is so unrelated to the OP.
On February 20 2012 11:35 Failsafe wrote: ok first of all i didn't read this all the way through because what the hell are you doing seriously? this is starcraft II, this isn't starcraft: brood war, there aren't skilled players at F level or D- or whatever the equivalent is that you're arguing exists. in fact, bronze league doesn't even exist as far as i know. the entire diatribe about getting into bronze league, playing in bronze league, or even reaching bronze league from the placement matches is absurd.
as far as i'm concerned bronze league is starcraft ii. i think it's been said, many times, many ways, by the good people of TL.net, at least those who are scholars of the game, true scholars and not just the run-of-the-mill 'n00b' that's running around these forums since 2010 or whenever it was that 'starcraft' 2 showed up. but frankly the only good thing about the new version of a great game is that we can think about total annhilation and how supreme commander was maybe possibly a true successor to that game, but as far as 'starcraft 2' i think WIII was a much more successful and abbreviated game that actually involved some micro and not just a-move terran death balls and protoss death balls and zerg fail balls running around in a virtually incoherent and almost completely nonsensical formation without any reference to unit pathing or some kind of logic stream of flowing combat with units in reasonable locations so that they don't all die at once to one big stupid fucking reaver blast.
now that was a great unit. the reaver. i think there should be a whole thread devoted to the reaver because it was the best unit in any game ever. the reaver catches a lot of flak because of its use as a unit that doesn't kill anything and everything (SEE KROGOTH)
plus your thread is just spam because it involves a milliino pictures. like serious i spent probably 10 minutes disecting and trying to figure out what it was saying and then you just spam it with a bunch of incoherent bronze league pictures and screen shots taken at angles that aren't even possible as though you were manipulating the camera angeles during the battle and how did you do that when you should be taking the time to control your troops? are you using stimulants against your bronze league opponents? that doesn't seem fair the bronziers... how are they gonna compete with you when you're abusing designer amphetamines like vyvanse and over-the-counter products like methamphetamine (which are commonly sold in my home state of ALABAMA).
apparently they make that stuff from battery acid. or so they say.
now let me show you a real game and how to crush some fucking bronze league n00bs X17 style as we used to say back in the golden days of gaming. the real gamers on the site, the founders, the elkies, the rekruls, the djwheats and that other guy with a smiilar name, froz, and fira and GRRRRR and other real gamers like boxer and julyzerg and the koreans like
Lil' Ill (aka ACTION) and JulyJunior (JulyJR A.K.A. Leenock) are true gamers who are following in the footsteps of the professionals like Jaedong and Effort carried the mantel of July and Savior and iloveoov was a true successor to the Emperor and Kingdom and Reach and Nal_rA AND GARIMTO THE TERMINATOR PROTOSS and true professional gamers who had a true love of the game and played a real game like this weakass SC2 is checkers to chess and i can already tell i'm gonna get banned again but i'm gonna teach you chobos how to play like a real gamer played when real video games were available and there were no monthly fees and you survived by your wits and you didn't bow down to the so-called champions of the age but you played them in respectable combat on maps like 255 F&F
and you definitely don't play zerg on that map because your larva wont' spawn fast enough (but that's somethign you can remedy in the SC2 editor which is nice) lol
anyway i don't wanna type a whole fucking dissertation so i'll just use youtube which is way better than your one-frame shots anyway
so check it. yeah there's no sound here, and i hate to rain on your 'color parade' with my black and white no sound video but frankly what you've posted is a disgrace to this forum and the good people who have spent their lives and their hopes and dreams and their tears and their joys and their blood and their guts to create the great haven of gaming that we call Seoul South Korea and the e-sports domain.
so there, now you can see some real gaming and how it looks and how it's supposed to be done by people who knew how to play and knew what a game looked like and didn't spend all their time worrying about grammatical correctness and whether the new-school mods like chill and 'jibba' and these other guys would 'get it'...
frankly the quality standards on this site have gone way down ever since the enforced standards went way up. you guys are suppressing creativity and creating an artificial hierarchy that prevents the truly skiled players from rising to the top. that's why guys like destinya nd incontrol are forcing themselves to stream their games live and it's costing great players like nony and idra the victories that they truly deserve (although some of that is nony's fault for changing his name to tyler)
anyway, the truly skilled defensive masters such as artosis understand or see or know or appreciate or value-highly the true skill as it is showcased by champions of the times past like the great lee yoon yeol who is probably the only player that has shown true terran skill other than boxer and MMA in games that i've watched in GSL. i'm not at all impressed by artosis's pick of bomber, but other than that i think he makes some decent predictions and i'm looking forward to crushing him when i return to SC2 in HoTS. i've decided to play protoss which i think is gonna be awesome once the colossus is removed and other nerfs are made and stuff is changed and improved so that things are better and i'm not just walking around force fielding everything. i feel like the true life line of protoss should be psi storm as it was always meant to be and not this weakass defensive shit. psi storm is defense, u fool, it prevents the zerg from engaging in a variety of spots where otherwise they could achieve cost effectiveness (assuming there is no reaver and don't even mention the colossus)
plus when it comes time to combat, you can effectively deny attack arcs and a variety of things that are problematic for you and advantageous to the zerg (one though) with the proper and accurate placement of psi storm.
feedback should not be a templar ability (duh?) talk about OP... lol
plus archons should be good. i'm not sure if they are. i remember they weren't when their range was 3 but now it's 4 or should it be 5? i dunno frankly i think that the archon is supposed to be a badass and there shouldn't be this obvious power disparity between the archon and the ultralisk. and immortals hard-countering ultralisks like they do, to the extent that they do is absurd. it's like, ok, if i kill all the little stuff with storm or (GOD FORBID COLOSSUS) then i can just clean everything up easily with my immortal where everything is ultralisk because everything else zerg has is countered by the colossus lol and of course you have to use corruptors or some other bullshit to counter the colossus and if you'd just take that unit out of the game (which looks stupid) i think there would be the potential for protoss to be an interesting race once more.
but alas we're devoted to the colossii and they're just great units and despite their idiotic appearance, their absurd range coupled with their speed and their utterly boring micro they're just great and the only thing that can counter them efficiently is the viking or the corruptor in some cases and frankly i don't see how the colossus made it into a $100M game to begin with but it's great and i hope it's still there in heart of the swarm.
anyway, back to the reaver. i see that you assembled your probes in the formation of a reaver which was very clever much like the reaver sentry that was built on the SCMapster site (which needs more love).
anyway someone should get word to evil geniuses and especially incontrol that something like 90% of his problem as a gamer is the fact that he has too much 'slow twitch muscle' from all of his useless weightlifting. if he had fast-twitch muscle and stuff that was actually conducive to playing starcraft he'd probably win a lot more and stop dropping games to under-skilled newbies like destiny who is actually pretty good but he has some mental blocks that he needs to overcome if he's ever gonna excel as a gamer.
anyway i'm hoping to see good performances by idra and i think tasteless and artosis should do some counseling or coaching with the korean OGS and TL and EG teams and i think that with the combined knowledge of those people the game could be advanced a great deal. and maybe even be at some point a worthy successor to starcraft I, the original and best starcraft.
now this guy is a true protoss who is nearly forgotten in the history books. he's fucking awesome had like 400 apm and was just beastly. he used dark archons and high templar and it was years before they became truly popular. so anyway i think it should be clear by now why feedback shouldn't be a high templar spell in starcraft 2 because that creates one super caster. the other problem is that there should be some convenient way to manage multiple caster types or caster groups or whatever maybe you could just combine the spell casting into one command thing so you don't have to tab through caster units and can just cast force field from sentries or whatever if they should even still have that spell i dunno it seems overpowered but frankly it's just not economical or reasonable to have to tab through casters when there's only less than 10 spells or so that they use on a consistent basis you could just put them all in one command card or whatever and there should be no problem with that.
what an epic series like the great tassadar himself conspired to create it for the joy of the netizens
a true apprentice vs master rivalry going the full 5 games and ending in the master's defeat by the apprentice. a truly glorious moment the praises of which should be sung from the hills and high peaks of valhalla throughout the ages.
btw that map was pretty sweet the semi-island thing although i think it was taken out of competitive play due to it being abused by NTT or (maynard??) lol
reach vs iloveoov was another just absolutely incredible series the likes of which hasn't been seen since flash and jaedong MSL finals going the full and then the game was interrupted by technical difficulties.
anyway i hope that flash doesn't succumb to the dangers of carpal tunnel which has already lcaimed the lives of too many great gamers to this day.
i don't know why a bunch of these great games don't have commentary probably because of some racism toward the good folks of korea by the evil corporations preventing the captioning and the updating of the soundcard onboard of some computers.
don't ask me what i mean by that.
lol it's been forever since i watched chojja but he's one of my favoirte players because whenever he's about to lose he gets this clever grin on his face that's like 'lol fool'
chojja is sick and this is obviously gonna be a great game because it sounds like it's set to the musical sounds of Megaman X which was another great game in its own right but single-player games are a lot more difficult to popularize amongst multiple players at one time lol
well anyway
this was one of the first lesbian porns that i watched but i think it was pretty clear that of the two players tossgirl came more prepared
so that's just some random game between nada and tempest from google video and i'm like 900% sure that it's gonna be awesome without even watching it because i just don't have the time... well i do but i'm gearing up for a night of raiding and i'm sure that's gonna be a blast even though i'm only level 20 or less and i can't even raid yet but it'll be good anyway. so that's the future is we're all gonna be playing these gayass MMOs and real games with real strategy and real tactics and shit are pretty much out the window as corporations try to dumb down the american consumer into a droid
i dunno if that's actually true like if it's an insidious plot or if people are just trying to make money and it's not working because the quickest way (currently) or previously is to exploit tendencies that are like 'leaks' or something in poker and people are just raping themselves or whatever and it's probably easily avoidable with some intelligent oversight so the democrats win and obama gets elected to a second term with ron paul as his vice president and almost everyone lives happily ever after but not the muslims because you can't talk about them without someone blowing you up but we're all hoping for the best and it'll probably take a couple generations but i'm sure we can get there if we legalize marijuana and allow people to begin to perceive their own problems and handle them with some rationality or intelligibility or just being cognizant of the effects of their actions (that is karma or universal law or whatever the hindus have been calling it for a while now) and you can see why the indians are so depressed because we had the answers forever / answer forever ago but it just never gets published due to some hangups and corporate concerns and paranoia and general misunderstandings and misgivings that are hard to voice and difficult to enunciate or in other words imperceptible to the 'evil' people who suffer from various neuroses and stuff with similar definitions
anyway i think that this is a good argument for the continuation of the true spirit and game of starcraft as evidenced by Pusan vs Nada in the famous game of 42 gates and the legalization of marijuana which should now be called 720 or something that speaks to the christians because they're like the only population on earth still living in doubt as to whether or not it's a good idea (and it is) to legalize marijuana so that everyone can begin to function with more unity and many of the earth's problems can be solved with ease and accurate information which was denied people for various reasons by various parties with selfish concerns and a unified perspective like that of the great Korean mathematician whose name won't be mentioned here who sought a way to unify and see the Universe with accuracy thanks to the shield battery.
so that's pretty much the argument for the legalization of Starcraft in the United States and why I think that Starcraft is a great game and I think that we should try to get rid of cigarettes and the association of tobacco products with marijuana because they're quite different and there's pretty much nothing at all good that comes from the use of tobacco (jury's still out on caffeine but tobacco has been a known problem for a while and it's hard to imagine why that hasn't been solved but i think it has to do with some interested parties who are not being appropriate considerate of others) and that's why they say that everything i need to know i learned in kindergarten (kinder) (garden) lol get it?
yeah i dunno so it's just a play on words and i think that appropriate steps should be taken to legalize Starcraft and possibly even poker depending on how quickly other things can get done but particularly Starcraft and marijuana.
On February 20 2012 13:41 Jealous wrote: Gheed, how do you think this would work in Brood War at E ranks on ICCup? Not the worker rush, but the general principle.
Probably not so fun. Because the game is so old, most of people who get into iccup is there for competitive play and know a thing or two about what they should expected.
On February 20 2012 14:08 Spacey wrote: I liked the part where you called people in bronze less intelligent than you just for being bad at a video game.
You got so mad with him that you made a account just to post this?
On February 20 2012 14:08 Spacey wrote: I liked the part where you called people in bronze less intelligent than you just for being bad at a video game.
I liked the part where you registered for this site, after already having voiced your opinion on Reddit multiple times, therefore completing the irony of judging someone who puts effort into something then making what you consider an ignorant statement. Why? Because he is calling them less intelligent for willfully not following the directions given for certain victory, NOT for the reason you listed.
On February 20 2012 14:08 Spacey wrote: I liked the part where you called people in bronze less intelligent than you just for being bad at a video game.
It's not just because they are bad at the game...they can't even follow common-sense instructions and as you can see by the dialogue they lack any kind of social skills. They can't put up any sort of response to what Gheed is telling them, instead they just lose any sense of what's happening and say stupid shit.
On February 20 2012 11:35 Failsafe wrote: ok first of all i didn't read this all the way through because what the hell are you doing seriously? this is starcraft II, this isn't starcraft: brood war, there aren't skilled players at F level or D- or whatever the equivalent is that you're arguing exists. in fact, bronze league doesn't even exist as far as i know. the entire diatribe about getting into bronze league, playing in bronze league, or even reaching bronze league from the placement matches is absurd.
as far as i'm concerned bronze league is starcraft ii. i think it's been said, many times, many ways, by the good people of TL.net, at least those who are scholars of the game, true scholars and not just the run-of-the-mill 'n00b' that's running around these forums since 2010 or whenever it was that 'starcraft' 2 showed up. but frankly the only good thing about the new version of a great game is that we can think about total annhilation and how supreme commander was maybe possibly a true successor to that game, but as far as 'starcraft 2' i think WIII was a much more successful and abbreviated game that actually involved some micro and not just a-move terran death balls and protoss death balls and zerg fail balls running around in a virtually incoherent and almost completely nonsensical formation without any reference to unit pathing or some kind of logic stream of flowing combat with units in reasonable locations so that they don't all die at once to one big stupid fucking reaver blast.
now that was a great unit. the reaver. i think there should be a whole thread devoted to the reaver because it was the best unit in any game ever. the reaver catches a lot of flak because of its use as a unit that doesn't kill anything and everything (SEE KROGOTH)
plus your thread is just spam because it involves a milliino pictures. like serious i spent probably 10 minutes disecting and trying to figure out what it was saying and then you just spam it with a bunch of incoherent bronze league pictures and screen shots taken at angles that aren't even possible as though you were manipulating the camera angeles during the battle and how did you do that when you should be taking the time to control your troops? are you using stimulants against your bronze league opponents? that doesn't seem fair the bronziers... how are they gonna compete with you when you're abusing designer amphetamines like vyvanse and over-the-counter products like methamphetamine (which are commonly sold in my home state of ALABAMA).
apparently they make that stuff from battery acid. or so they say.
now let me show you a real game and how to crush some fucking bronze league n00bs X17 style as we used to say back in the golden days of gaming. the real gamers on the site, the founders, the elkies, the rekruls, the djwheats and that other guy with a smiilar name, froz, and fira and GRRRRR and other real gamers like boxer and julyzerg and the koreans like
Lil' Ill (aka ACTION) and JulyJunior (JulyJR A.K.A. Leenock) are true gamers who are following in the footsteps of the professionals like Jaedong and Effort carried the mantel of July and Savior and iloveoov was a true successor to the Emperor and Kingdom and Reach and Nal_rA AND GARIMTO THE TERMINATOR PROTOSS and true professional gamers who had a true love of the game and played a real game like this weakass SC2 is checkers to chess and i can already tell i'm gonna get banned again but i'm gonna teach you chobos how to play like a real gamer played when real video games were available and there were no monthly fees and you survived by your wits and you didn't bow down to the so-called champions of the age but you played them in respectable combat on maps like 255 F&F
and you definitely don't play zerg on that map because your larva wont' spawn fast enough (but that's somethign you can remedy in the SC2 editor which is nice) lol
anyway i don't wanna type a whole fucking dissertation so i'll just use youtube which is way better than your one-frame shots anyway
so check it. yeah there's no sound here, and i hate to rain on your 'color parade' with my black and white no sound video but frankly what you've posted is a disgrace to this forum and the good people who have spent their lives and their hopes and dreams and their tears and their joys and their blood and their guts to create the great haven of gaming that we call Seoul South Korea and the e-sports domain.
so there, now you can see some real gaming and how it looks and how it's supposed to be done by people who knew how to play and knew what a game looked like and didn't spend all their time worrying about grammatical correctness and whether the new-school mods like chill and 'jibba' and these other guys would 'get it'...
frankly the quality standards on this site have gone way down ever since the enforced standards went way up. you guys are suppressing creativity and creating an artificial hierarchy that prevents the truly skiled players from rising to the top. that's why guys like destinya nd incontrol are forcing themselves to stream their games live and it's costing great players like nony and idra the victories that they truly deserve (although some of that is nony's fault for changing his name to tyler)
anyway, the truly skilled defensive masters such as artosis understand or see or know or appreciate or value-highly the true skill as it is showcased by champions of the times past like the great lee yoon yeol who is probably the only player that has shown true terran skill other than boxer and MMA in games that i've watched in GSL. i'm not at all impressed by artosis's pick of bomber, but other than that i think he makes some decent predictions and i'm looking forward to crushing him when i return to SC2 in HoTS. i've decided to play protoss which i think is gonna be awesome once the colossus is removed and other nerfs are made and stuff is changed and improved so that things are better and i'm not just walking around force fielding everything. i feel like the true life line of protoss should be psi storm as it was always meant to be and not this weakass defensive shit. psi storm is defense, u fool, it prevents the zerg from engaging in a variety of spots where otherwise they could achieve cost effectiveness (assuming there is no reaver and don't even mention the colossus)
plus when it comes time to combat, you can effectively deny attack arcs and a variety of things that are problematic for you and advantageous to the zerg (one though) with the proper and accurate placement of psi storm.
feedback should not be a templar ability (duh?) talk about OP... lol
plus archons should be good. i'm not sure if they are. i remember they weren't when their range was 3 but now it's 4 or should it be 5? i dunno frankly i think that the archon is supposed to be a badass and there shouldn't be this obvious power disparity between the archon and the ultralisk. and immortals hard-countering ultralisks like they do, to the extent that they do is absurd. it's like, ok, if i kill all the little stuff with storm or (GOD FORBID COLOSSUS) then i can just clean everything up easily with my immortal where everything is ultralisk because everything else zerg has is countered by the colossus lol and of course you have to use corruptors or some other bullshit to counter the colossus and if you'd just take that unit out of the game (which looks stupid) i think there would be the potential for protoss to be an interesting race once more.
but alas we're devoted to the colossii and they're just great units and despite their idiotic appearance, their absurd range coupled with their speed and their utterly boring micro they're just great and the only thing that can counter them efficiently is the viking or the corruptor in some cases and frankly i don't see how the colossus made it into a $100M game to begin with but it's great and i hope it's still there in heart of the swarm.
anyway, back to the reaver. i see that you assembled your probes in the formation of a reaver which was very clever much like the reaver sentry that was built on the SCMapster site (which needs more love).
anyway someone should get word to evil geniuses and especially incontrol that something like 90% of his problem as a gamer is the fact that he has too much 'slow twitch muscle' from all of his useless weightlifting. if he had fast-twitch muscle and stuff that was actually conducive to playing starcraft he'd probably win a lot more and stop dropping games to under-skilled newbies like destiny who is actually pretty good but he has some mental blocks that he needs to overcome if he's ever gonna excel as a gamer.
anyway i'm hoping to see good performances by idra and i think tasteless and artosis should do some counseling or coaching with the korean OGS and TL and EG teams and i think that with the combined knowledge of those people the game could be advanced a great deal. and maybe even be at some point a worthy successor to starcraft I, the original and best starcraft.
now this guy is a true protoss who is nearly forgotten in the history books. he's fucking awesome had like 400 apm and was just beastly. he used dark archons and high templar and it was years before they became truly popular. so anyway i think it should be clear by now why feedback shouldn't be a high templar spell in starcraft 2 because that creates one super caster. the other problem is that there should be some convenient way to manage multiple caster types or caster groups or whatever maybe you could just combine the spell casting into one command thing so you don't have to tab through caster units and can just cast force field from sentries or whatever if they should even still have that spell i dunno it seems overpowered but frankly it's just not economical or reasonable to have to tab through casters when there's only less than 10 spells or so that they use on a consistent basis you could just put them all in one command card or whatever and there should be no problem with that.
what an epic series like the great tassadar himself conspired to create it for the joy of the netizens
a true apprentice vs master rivalry going the full 5 games and ending in the master's defeat by the apprentice. a truly glorious moment the praises of which should be sung from the hills and high peaks of valhalla throughout the ages.
btw that map was pretty sweet the semi-island thing although i think it was taken out of competitive play due to it being abused by NTT or (maynard??) lol
reach vs iloveoov was another just absolutely incredible series the likes of which hasn't been seen since flash and jaedong MSL finals going the full and then the game was interrupted by technical difficulties.
anyway i hope that flash doesn't succumb to the dangers of carpal tunnel which has already lcaimed the lives of too many great gamers to this day.
i don't know why a bunch of these great games don't have commentary probably because of some racism toward the good folks of korea by the evil corporations preventing the captioning and the updating of the soundcard onboard of some computers.
don't ask me what i mean by that.
lol it's been forever since i watched chojja but he's one of my favoirte players because whenever he's about to lose he gets this clever grin on his face that's like 'lol fool'
chojja is sick and this is obviously gonna be a great game because it sounds like it's set to the musical sounds of Megaman X which was another great game in its own right but single-player games are a lot more difficult to popularize amongst multiple players at one time lol
well anyway
this was one of the first lesbian porns that i watched but i think it was pretty clear that of the two players tossgirl came more prepared
so that's just some random game between nada and tempest from google video and i'm like 900% sure that it's gonna be awesome without even watching it because i just don't have the time... well i do but i'm gearing up for a night of raiding and i'm sure that's gonna be a blast even though i'm only level 20 or less and i can't even raid yet but it'll be good anyway. so that's the future is we're all gonna be playing these gayass MMOs and real games with real strategy and real tactics and shit are pretty much out the window as corporations try to dumb down the american consumer into a droid
i dunno if that's actually true like if it's an insidious plot or if people are just trying to make money and it's not working because the quickest way (currently) or previously is to exploit tendencies that are like 'leaks' or something in poker and people are just raping themselves or whatever and it's probably easily avoidable with some intelligent oversight so the democrats win and obama gets elected to a second term with ron paul as his vice president and almost everyone lives happily ever after but not the muslims because you can't talk about them without someone blowing you up but we're all hoping for the best and it'll probably take a couple generations but i'm sure we can get there if we legalize marijuana and allow people to begin to perceive their own problems and handle them with some rationality or intelligibility or just being cognizant of the effects of their actions (that is karma or universal law or whatever the hindus have been calling it for a while now) and you can see why the indians are so depressed because we had the answers forever / answer forever ago but it just never gets published due to some hangups and corporate concerns and paranoia and general misunderstandings and misgivings that are hard to voice and difficult to enunciate or in other words imperceptible to the 'evil' people who suffer from various neuroses and stuff with similar definitions
anyway i think that this is a good argument for the continuation of the true spirit and game of starcraft as evidenced by Pusan vs Nada in the famous game of 42 gates and the legalization of marijuana which should now be called 720 or something that speaks to the christians because they're like the only population on earth still living in doubt as to whether or not it's a good idea (and it is) to legalize marijuana so that everyone can begin to function with more unity and many of the earth's problems can be solved with ease and accurate information which was denied people for various reasons by various parties with selfish concerns and a unified perspective like that of the great Korean mathematician whose name won't be mentioned here who sought a way to unify and see the Universe with accuracy thanks to the shield battery.
so that's pretty much the argument for the legalization of Starcraft in the United States and why I think that Starcraft is a great game and I think that we should try to get rid of cigarettes and the association of tobacco products with marijuana because they're quite different and there's pretty much nothing at all good that comes from the use of tobacco (jury's still out on caffeine but tobacco has been a known problem for a while and it's hard to imagine why that hasn't been solved but i think it has to do with some interested parties who are not being appropriate considerate of others) and that's why they say that everything i need to know i learned in kindergarten (kinder) (garden) lol get it?
yeah i dunno so it's just a play on words and i think that appropriate steps should be taken to legalize Starcraft and possibly even poker depending on how quickly other things can get done but particularly Starcraft and marijuana.
What is this post lol
Hahaha, is this a repost from somewhere else? I can't imagine anyone putting in this amount of effort for something that is so unrelated to the OP.
Anyhow, great blog! :D
Given his recent posting history, I think he's just high.
Blizzard should hire you to muck around in bronze teaching people basic concepts like high ground vision and tactics like the worker rush. Get a little official icon or something next to your name so there's no possible way people would think you're deceiving them. You could even be teaching the basic concepts behind improving in a fine tuned, highly competitive RTS game.
What would really be effective is a whole section built into battle.net with a button for it that blinks incessantly if you're in bronze league. It would have a bunch of on hand employees or even volunteers with forums or chats to answer specific questions or find a quick matchup with a higher level player that can do things like PF rush, and explain why it worked afterwards.
We have all these resources available to us because we're invested in the greater community. Its hard not to realize how shameful and easy to defeat a worker rush is when you've seen the community go apeshit over Naniwa using it. Who knows what level I'd really be at if I didn't have Team Liquid. The key thing would be for Blizzard to implement it into battle.net. Its a good start to link to tournaments and community sites in the news section, but for the majority of low level players who just want to get in a match and are frustrated when they can't seem to figure out how to beat the most asinine tactics, there needs to be something more direct.
a. Attempt to block his mineral patches with pylons and prevent all mining. If his workers are in the way, you may kill them, otherwise leave them be. b. Build all your buildings in his base and try to win "normally" but by having his base as your base.
I completely agree with this. As a bronze player. (I did my placement matches before knowing a lick of Starcraft.) I can attest to how absolutely horrible it is. I have found that I usually have to four gate most of my enemies because I can't play Zerg on my bronze account because the macro/micro heavy games are just preposterous. There is none. You can try, but it is a waste of your time. If you don't rush your enemy he will either have mass battle cruisers, mass roaches, or mass stalkers. Its just a I'll do this game to them. No late game no macro just making units. This is why I made another account and got placed in gold. I had to make another account because I could no longer stand the amount of trouble it took to get out of bronze. I could honestly feel myself getting worse at the game.
This is so bad :| I didn't have any idea at all! My friends who were in masters and diamond dropped to bronze to troll, but I had no idea it was this bad, they just said there was a lot of bots and really bad players and players like themselves.
I really think blizzard should embrace this issue with full community support, this actually was the most fun I've had reading any post on TL and yet it was also the saddest. I try and teach every one of my bronze league friends how to play, sometimes they understand what I am saying other times it just drives me insane. I always say don't worry about scouting, just make an army and attack, boy was I wrong!
I really think that people need to realize that when they play a game, and they are trying to learn, they need to find a friend who at least knows something about the game. There is a lot of potential in people who have no idea how to play because no one takes the time to teach them. The fact that it is so bad that they are ignorant of help is baffling.
On February 20 2012 11:35 Failsafe wrote: ok first of all i didn't read this all the way through because what the hell are you doing seriously? this is starcraft II, this isn't starcraft: brood war, there aren't skilled players at F level or D- or whatever the equivalent is that you're arguing exists. in fact, bronze league doesn't even exist as far as i know. the entire diatribe about getting into bronze league, playing in bronze league, or even reaching bronze league from the placement matches is absurd.
as far as i'm concerned bronze league is starcraft ii. i think it's been said, many times, many ways, by the good people of TL.net, at least those who are scholars of the game, true scholars and not just the run-of-the-mill 'n00b' that's running around these forums since 2010 or whenever it was that 'starcraft' 2 showed up. but frankly the only good thing about the new version of a great game is that we can think about total annhilation and how supreme commander was maybe possibly a true successor to that game, but as far as 'starcraft 2' i think WIII was a much more successful and abbreviated game that actually involved some micro and not just a-move terran death balls and protoss death balls and zerg fail balls running around in a virtually incoherent and almost completely nonsensical formation without any reference to unit pathing or some kind of logic stream of flowing combat with units in reasonable locations so that they don't all die at once to one big stupid fucking reaver blast.
now that was a great unit. the reaver. i think there should be a whole thread devoted to the reaver because it was the best unit in any game ever. the reaver catches a lot of flak because of its use as a unit that doesn't kill anything and everything (SEE KROGOTH)
plus your thread is just spam because it involves a milliino pictures. like serious i spent probably 10 minutes disecting and trying to figure out what it was saying and then you just spam it with a bunch of incoherent bronze league pictures and screen shots taken at angles that aren't even possible as though you were manipulating the camera angeles during the battle and how did you do that when you should be taking the time to control your troops? are you using stimulants against your bronze league opponents? that doesn't seem fair the bronziers... how are they gonna compete with you when you're abusing designer amphetamines like vyvanse and over-the-counter products like methamphetamine (which are commonly sold in my home state of ALABAMA).
apparently they make that stuff from battery acid. or so they say.
now let me show you a real game and how to crush some fucking bronze league n00bs X17 style as we used to say back in the golden days of gaming. the real gamers on the site, the founders, the elkies, the rekruls, the djwheats and that other guy with a smiilar name, froz, and fira and GRRRRR and other real gamers like boxer and julyzerg and the koreans like
Lil' Ill (aka ACTION) and JulyJunior (JulyJR A.K.A. Leenock) are true gamers who are following in the footsteps of the professionals like Jaedong and Effort carried the mantel of July and Savior and iloveoov was a true successor to the Emperor and Kingdom and Reach and Nal_rA AND GARIMTO THE TERMINATOR PROTOSS and true professional gamers who had a true love of the game and played a real game like this weakass SC2 is checkers to chess and i can already tell i'm gonna get banned again but i'm gonna teach you chobos how to play like a real gamer played when real video games were available and there were no monthly fees and you survived by your wits and you didn't bow down to the so-called champions of the age but you played them in respectable combat on maps like 255 F&F
and you definitely don't play zerg on that map because your larva wont' spawn fast enough (but that's somethign you can remedy in the SC2 editor which is nice) lol
anyway i don't wanna type a whole fucking dissertation so i'll just use youtube which is way better than your one-frame shots anyway
so check it. yeah there's no sound here, and i hate to rain on your 'color parade' with my black and white no sound video but frankly what you've posted is a disgrace to this forum and the good people who have spent their lives and their hopes and dreams and their tears and their joys and their blood and their guts to create the great haven of gaming that we call Seoul South Korea and the e-sports domain.
so there, now you can see some real gaming and how it looks and how it's supposed to be done by people who knew how to play and knew what a game looked like and didn't spend all their time worrying about grammatical correctness and whether the new-school mods like chill and 'jibba' and these other guys would 'get it'...
frankly the quality standards on this site have gone way down ever since the enforced standards went way up. you guys are suppressing creativity and creating an artificial hierarchy that prevents the truly skiled players from rising to the top. that's why guys like destinya nd incontrol are forcing themselves to stream their games live and it's costing great players like nony and idra the victories that they truly deserve (although some of that is nony's fault for changing his name to tyler)
anyway, the truly skilled defensive masters such as artosis understand or see or know or appreciate or value-highly the true skill as it is showcased by champions of the times past like the great lee yoon yeol who is probably the only player that has shown true terran skill other than boxer and MMA in games that i've watched in GSL. i'm not at all impressed by artosis's pick of bomber, but other than that i think he makes some decent predictions and i'm looking forward to crushing him when i return to SC2 in HoTS. i've decided to play protoss which i think is gonna be awesome once the colossus is removed and other nerfs are made and stuff is changed and improved so that things are better and i'm not just walking around force fielding everything. i feel like the true life line of protoss should be psi storm as it was always meant to be and not this weakass defensive shit. psi storm is defense, u fool, it prevents the zerg from engaging in a variety of spots where otherwise they could achieve cost effectiveness (assuming there is no reaver and don't even mention the colossus)
plus when it comes time to combat, you can effectively deny attack arcs and a variety of things that are problematic for you and advantageous to the zerg (one though) with the proper and accurate placement of psi storm.
feedback should not be a templar ability (duh?) talk about OP... lol
plus archons should be good. i'm not sure if they are. i remember they weren't when their range was 3 but now it's 4 or should it be 5? i dunno frankly i think that the archon is supposed to be a badass and there shouldn't be this obvious power disparity between the archon and the ultralisk. and immortals hard-countering ultralisks like they do, to the extent that they do is absurd. it's like, ok, if i kill all the little stuff with storm or (GOD FORBID COLOSSUS) then i can just clean everything up easily with my immortal where everything is ultralisk because everything else zerg has is countered by the colossus lol and of course you have to use corruptors or some other bullshit to counter the colossus and if you'd just take that unit out of the game (which looks stupid) i think there would be the potential for protoss to be an interesting race once more.
but alas we're devoted to the colossii and they're just great units and despite their idiotic appearance, their absurd range coupled with their speed and their utterly boring micro they're just great and the only thing that can counter them efficiently is the viking or the corruptor in some cases and frankly i don't see how the colossus made it into a $100M game to begin with but it's great and i hope it's still there in heart of the swarm.
anyway, back to the reaver. i see that you assembled your probes in the formation of a reaver which was very clever much like the reaver sentry that was built on the SCMapster site (which needs more love).
anyway someone should get word to evil geniuses and especially incontrol that something like 90% of his problem as a gamer is the fact that he has too much 'slow twitch muscle' from all of his useless weightlifting. if he had fast-twitch muscle and stuff that was actually conducive to playing starcraft he'd probably win a lot more and stop dropping games to under-skilled newbies like destiny who is actually pretty good but he has some mental blocks that he needs to overcome if he's ever gonna excel as a gamer.
anyway i'm hoping to see good performances by idra and i think tasteless and artosis should do some counseling or coaching with the korean OGS and TL and EG teams and i think that with the combined knowledge of those people the game could be advanced a great deal. and maybe even be at some point a worthy successor to starcraft I, the original and best starcraft.
now this guy is a true protoss who is nearly forgotten in the history books. he's fucking awesome had like 400 apm and was just beastly. he used dark archons and high templar and it was years before they became truly popular. so anyway i think it should be clear by now why feedback shouldn't be a high templar spell in starcraft 2 because that creates one super caster. the other problem is that there should be some convenient way to manage multiple caster types or caster groups or whatever maybe you could just combine the spell casting into one command thing so you don't have to tab through caster units and can just cast force field from sentries or whatever if they should even still have that spell i dunno it seems overpowered but frankly it's just not economical or reasonable to have to tab through casters when there's only less than 10 spells or so that they use on a consistent basis you could just put them all in one command card or whatever and there should be no problem with that.
what an epic series like the great tassadar himself conspired to create it for the joy of the netizens
a true apprentice vs master rivalry going the full 5 games and ending in the master's defeat by the apprentice. a truly glorious moment the praises of which should be sung from the hills and high peaks of valhalla throughout the ages.
btw that map was pretty sweet the semi-island thing although i think it was taken out of competitive play due to it being abused by NTT or (maynard??) lol
reach vs iloveoov was another just absolutely incredible series the likes of which hasn't been seen since flash and jaedong MSL finals going the full and then the game was interrupted by technical difficulties.
anyway i hope that flash doesn't succumb to the dangers of carpal tunnel which has already lcaimed the lives of too many great gamers to this day.
i don't know why a bunch of these great games don't have commentary probably because of some racism toward the good folks of korea by the evil corporations preventing the captioning and the updating of the soundcard onboard of some computers.
don't ask me what i mean by that.
lol it's been forever since i watched chojja but he's one of my favoirte players because whenever he's about to lose he gets this clever grin on his face that's like 'lol fool'
chojja is sick and this is obviously gonna be a great game because it sounds like it's set to the musical sounds of Megaman X which was another great game in its own right but single-player games are a lot more difficult to popularize amongst multiple players at one time lol
well anyway
this was one of the first lesbian porns that i watched but i think it was pretty clear that of the two players tossgirl came more prepared
so that's just some random game between nada and tempest from google video and i'm like 900% sure that it's gonna be awesome without even watching it because i just don't have the time... well i do but i'm gearing up for a night of raiding and i'm sure that's gonna be a blast even though i'm only level 20 or less and i can't even raid yet but it'll be good anyway. so that's the future is we're all gonna be playing these gayass MMOs and real games with real strategy and real tactics and shit are pretty much out the window as corporations try to dumb down the american consumer into a droid
i dunno if that's actually true like if it's an insidious plot or if people are just trying to make money and it's not working because the quickest way (currently) or previously is to exploit tendencies that are like 'leaks' or something in poker and people are just raping themselves or whatever and it's probably easily avoidable with some intelligent oversight so the democrats win and obama gets elected to a second term with ron paul as his vice president and almost everyone lives happily ever after but not the muslims because you can't talk about them without someone blowing you up but we're all hoping for the best and it'll probably take a couple generations but i'm sure we can get there if we legalize marijuana and allow people to begin to perceive their own problems and handle them with some rationality or intelligibility or just being cognizant of the effects of their actions (that is karma or universal law or whatever the hindus have been calling it for a while now) and you can see why the indians are so depressed because we had the answers forever / answer forever ago but it just never gets published due to some hangups and corporate concerns and paranoia and general misunderstandings and misgivings that are hard to voice and difficult to enunciate or in other words imperceptible to the 'evil' people who suffer from various neuroses and stuff with similar definitions
anyway i think that this is a good argument for the continuation of the true spirit and game of starcraft as evidenced by Pusan vs Nada in the famous game of 42 gates and the legalization of marijuana which should now be called 720 or something that speaks to the christians because they're like the only population on earth still living in doubt as to whether or not it's a good idea (and it is) to legalize marijuana so that everyone can begin to function with more unity and many of the earth's problems can be solved with ease and accurate information which was denied people for various reasons by various parties with selfish concerns and a unified perspective like that of the great Korean mathematician whose name won't be mentioned here who sought a way to unify and see the Universe with accuracy thanks to the shield battery.
so that's pretty much the argument for the legalization of Starcraft in the United States and why I think that Starcraft is a great game and I think that we should try to get rid of cigarettes and the association of tobacco products with marijuana because they're quite different and there's pretty much nothing at all good that comes from the use of tobacco (jury's still out on caffeine but tobacco has been a known problem for a while and it's hard to imagine why that hasn't been solved but i think it has to do with some interested parties who are not being appropriate considerate of others) and that's why they say that everything i need to know i learned in kindergarten (kinder) (garden) lol get it?
yeah i dunno so it's just a play on words and i think that appropriate steps should be taken to legalize Starcraft and possibly even poker depending on how quickly other things can get done but particularly Starcraft and marijuana.
What is this post lol
Seriously, no idea what's going on there lol.
Also just want to voice my continued support for this noble exercise.
Not sure what's the fun of playing bronze players and then laughing of them on TL. It's like if a grand chess master played a game of chess against you and would then write an article in a chess magazine to laugh about you.
On February 20 2012 15:10 phzbox wrote: Not sure what's the fun of playing bronze players and then laughing of them on TL. It's like if a grand chess master played a game of chess against you and would then write an article in a chess magazine to laugh about you.
If this GM chess player writes half as good as gheel, I'd be laughing the same way.
On February 20 2012 14:54 nAFARIOUS wrote: I completely agree with this. As a bronze player. (I did my placement matches before knowing a lick of Starcraft.) I can attest to how absolutely horrible it is. I have found that I usually have to four gate most of my enemies because I can't play Zerg on my bronze account because the macro/micro heavy games are just preposterous. There is none. You can try, but it is a waste of your time. If you don't rush your enemy he will either have mass battle cruisers, mass roaches, or mass stalkers. Its just a I'll do this game to them. No late game no macro just making units. This is why I made another account and got placed in gold. I had to make another account because I could no longer stand the amount of trouble it took to get out of bronze. I could honestly feel myself getting worse at the game.
On February 20 2012 11:35 Failsafe wrote: ok first of all i didn't read this all the way through because what the hell are you doing seriously? this is starcraft II, this isn't starcraft: brood war, there aren't skilled players at F level or D- or whatever the equivalent is that you're arguing exists. in fact, bronze league doesn't even exist as far as i know. the entire diatribe about getting into bronze league, playing in bronze league, or even reaching bronze league from the placement matches is absurd.
as far as i'm concerned bronze league is starcraft ii. i think it's been said, many times, many ways, by the good people of TL.net, at least those who are scholars of the game, true scholars and not just the run-of-the-mill 'n00b' that's running around these forums since 2010 or whenever it was that 'starcraft' 2 showed up. but frankly the only good thing about the new version of a great game is that we can think about total annhilation and how supreme commander was maybe possibly a true successor to that game, but as far as 'starcraft 2' i think WIII was a much more successful and abbreviated game that actually involved some micro and not just a-move terran death balls and protoss death balls and zerg fail balls running around in a virtually incoherent and almost completely nonsensical formation without any reference to unit pathing or some kind of logic stream of flowing combat with units in reasonable locations so that they don't all die at once to one big stupid fucking reaver blast.
now that was a great unit. the reaver. i think there should be a whole thread devoted to the reaver because it was the best unit in any game ever. the reaver catches a lot of flak because of its use as a unit that doesn't kill anything and everything (SEE KROGOTH)
plus your thread is just spam because it involves a milliino pictures. like serious i spent probably 10 minutes disecting and trying to figure out what it was saying and then you just spam it with a bunch of incoherent bronze league pictures and screen shots taken at angles that aren't even possible as though you were manipulating the camera angeles during the battle and how did you do that when you should be taking the time to control your troops? are you using stimulants against your bronze league opponents? that doesn't seem fair the bronziers... how are they gonna compete with you when you're abusing designer amphetamines like vyvanse and over-the-counter products like methamphetamine (which are commonly sold in my home state of ALABAMA).
apparently they make that stuff from battery acid. or so they say.
now let me show you a real game and how to crush some fucking bronze league n00bs X17 style as we used to say back in the golden days of gaming. the real gamers on the site, the founders, the elkies, the rekruls, the djwheats and that other guy with a smiilar name, froz, and fira and GRRRRR and other real gamers like boxer and julyzerg and the koreans like
Lil' Ill (aka ACTION) and JulyJunior (JulyJR A.K.A. Leenock) are true gamers who are following in the footsteps of the professionals like Jaedong and Effort carried the mantel of July and Savior and iloveoov was a true successor to the Emperor and Kingdom and Reach and Nal_rA AND GARIMTO THE TERMINATOR PROTOSS and true professional gamers who had a true love of the game and played a real game like this weakass SC2 is checkers to chess and i can already tell i'm gonna get banned again but i'm gonna teach you chobos how to play like a real gamer played when real video games were available and there were no monthly fees and you survived by your wits and you didn't bow down to the so-called champions of the age but you played them in respectable combat on maps like 255 F&F
and you definitely don't play zerg on that map because your larva wont' spawn fast enough (but that's somethign you can remedy in the SC2 editor which is nice) lol
anyway i don't wanna type a whole fucking dissertation so i'll just use youtube which is way better than your one-frame shots anyway
so check it. yeah there's no sound here, and i hate to rain on your 'color parade' with my black and white no sound video but frankly what you've posted is a disgrace to this forum and the good people who have spent their lives and their hopes and dreams and their tears and their joys and their blood and their guts to create the great haven of gaming that we call Seoul South Korea and the e-sports domain.
so there, now you can see some real gaming and how it looks and how it's supposed to be done by people who knew how to play and knew what a game looked like and didn't spend all their time worrying about grammatical correctness and whether the new-school mods like chill and 'jibba' and these other guys would 'get it'...
frankly the quality standards on this site have gone way down ever since the enforced standards went way up. you guys are suppressing creativity and creating an artificial hierarchy that prevents the truly skiled players from rising to the top. that's why guys like destinya nd incontrol are forcing themselves to stream their games live and it's costing great players like nony and idra the victories that they truly deserve (although some of that is nony's fault for changing his name to tyler)
anyway, the truly skilled defensive masters such as artosis understand or see or know or appreciate or value-highly the true skill as it is showcased by champions of the times past like the great lee yoon yeol who is probably the only player that has shown true terran skill other than boxer and MMA in games that i've watched in GSL. i'm not at all impressed by artosis's pick of bomber, but other than that i think he makes some decent predictions and i'm looking forward to crushing him when i return to SC2 in HoTS. i've decided to play protoss which i think is gonna be awesome once the colossus is removed and other nerfs are made and stuff is changed and improved so that things are better and i'm not just walking around force fielding everything. i feel like the true life line of protoss should be psi storm as it was always meant to be and not this weakass defensive shit. psi storm is defense, u fool, it prevents the zerg from engaging in a variety of spots where otherwise they could achieve cost effectiveness (assuming there is no reaver and don't even mention the colossus)
plus when it comes time to combat, you can effectively deny attack arcs and a variety of things that are problematic for you and advantageous to the zerg (one though) with the proper and accurate placement of psi storm.
feedback should not be a templar ability (duh?) talk about OP... lol
plus archons should be good. i'm not sure if they are. i remember they weren't when their range was 3 but now it's 4 or should it be 5? i dunno frankly i think that the archon is supposed to be a badass and there shouldn't be this obvious power disparity between the archon and the ultralisk. and immortals hard-countering ultralisks like they do, to the extent that they do is absurd. it's like, ok, if i kill all the little stuff with storm or (GOD FORBID COLOSSUS) then i can just clean everything up easily with my immortal where everything is ultralisk because everything else zerg has is countered by the colossus lol and of course you have to use corruptors or some other bullshit to counter the colossus and if you'd just take that unit out of the game (which looks stupid) i think there would be the potential for protoss to be an interesting race once more.
but alas we're devoted to the colossii and they're just great units and despite their idiotic appearance, their absurd range coupled with their speed and their utterly boring micro they're just great and the only thing that can counter them efficiently is the viking or the corruptor in some cases and frankly i don't see how the colossus made it into a $100M game to begin with but it's great and i hope it's still there in heart of the swarm.
anyway, back to the reaver. i see that you assembled your probes in the formation of a reaver which was very clever much like the reaver sentry that was built on the SCMapster site (which needs more love).
anyway someone should get word to evil geniuses and especially incontrol that something like 90% of his problem as a gamer is the fact that he has too much 'slow twitch muscle' from all of his useless weightlifting. if he had fast-twitch muscle and stuff that was actually conducive to playing starcraft he'd probably win a lot more and stop dropping games to under-skilled newbies like destiny who is actually pretty good but he has some mental blocks that he needs to overcome if he's ever gonna excel as a gamer.
anyway i'm hoping to see good performances by idra and i think tasteless and artosis should do some counseling or coaching with the korean OGS and TL and EG teams and i think that with the combined knowledge of those people the game could be advanced a great deal. and maybe even be at some point a worthy successor to starcraft I, the original and best starcraft.
now this guy is a true protoss who is nearly forgotten in the history books. he's fucking awesome had like 400 apm and was just beastly. he used dark archons and high templar and it was years before they became truly popular. so anyway i think it should be clear by now why feedback shouldn't be a high templar spell in starcraft 2 because that creates one super caster. the other problem is that there should be some convenient way to manage multiple caster types or caster groups or whatever maybe you could just combine the spell casting into one command thing so you don't have to tab through caster units and can just cast force field from sentries or whatever if they should even still have that spell i dunno it seems overpowered but frankly it's just not economical or reasonable to have to tab through casters when there's only less than 10 spells or so that they use on a consistent basis you could just put them all in one command card or whatever and there should be no problem with that.
what an epic series like the great tassadar himself conspired to create it for the joy of the netizens
a true apprentice vs master rivalry going the full 5 games and ending in the master's defeat by the apprentice. a truly glorious moment the praises of which should be sung from the hills and high peaks of valhalla throughout the ages.
btw that map was pretty sweet the semi-island thing although i think it was taken out of competitive play due to it being abused by NTT or (maynard??) lol
reach vs iloveoov was another just absolutely incredible series the likes of which hasn't been seen since flash and jaedong MSL finals going the full and then the game was interrupted by technical difficulties.
anyway i hope that flash doesn't succumb to the dangers of carpal tunnel which has already lcaimed the lives of too many great gamers to this day.
i don't know why a bunch of these great games don't have commentary probably because of some racism toward the good folks of korea by the evil corporations preventing the captioning and the updating of the soundcard onboard of some computers.
don't ask me what i mean by that.
lol it's been forever since i watched chojja but he's one of my favoirte players because whenever he's about to lose he gets this clever grin on his face that's like 'lol fool'
chojja is sick and this is obviously gonna be a great game because it sounds like it's set to the musical sounds of Megaman X which was another great game in its own right but single-player games are a lot more difficult to popularize amongst multiple players at one time lol
well anyway
this was one of the first lesbian porns that i watched but i think it was pretty clear that of the two players tossgirl came more prepared
so that's just some random game between nada and tempest from google video and i'm like 900% sure that it's gonna be awesome without even watching it because i just don't have the time... well i do but i'm gearing up for a night of raiding and i'm sure that's gonna be a blast even though i'm only level 20 or less and i can't even raid yet but it'll be good anyway. so that's the future is we're all gonna be playing these gayass MMOs and real games with real strategy and real tactics and shit are pretty much out the window as corporations try to dumb down the american consumer into a droid
i dunno if that's actually true like if it's an insidious plot or if people are just trying to make money and it's not working because the quickest way (currently) or previously is to exploit tendencies that are like 'leaks' or something in poker and people are just raping themselves or whatever and it's probably easily avoidable with some intelligent oversight so the democrats win and obama gets elected to a second term with ron paul as his vice president and almost everyone lives happily ever after but not the muslims because you can't talk about them without someone blowing you up but we're all hoping for the best and it'll probably take a couple generations but i'm sure we can get there if we legalize marijuana and allow people to begin to perceive their own problems and handle them with some rationality or intelligibility or just being cognizant of the effects of their actions (that is karma or universal law or whatever the hindus have been calling it for a while now) and you can see why the indians are so depressed because we had the answers forever / answer forever ago but it just never gets published due to some hangups and corporate concerns and paranoia and general misunderstandings and misgivings that are hard to voice and difficult to enunciate or in other words imperceptible to the 'evil' people who suffer from various neuroses and stuff with similar definitions
anyway i think that this is a good argument for the continuation of the true spirit and game of starcraft as evidenced by Pusan vs Nada in the famous game of 42 gates and the legalization of marijuana which should now be called 720 or something that speaks to the christians because they're like the only population on earth still living in doubt as to whether or not it's a good idea (and it is) to legalize marijuana so that everyone can begin to function with more unity and many of the earth's problems can be solved with ease and accurate information which was denied people for various reasons by various parties with selfish concerns and a unified perspective like that of the great Korean mathematician whose name won't be mentioned here who sought a way to unify and see the Universe with accuracy thanks to the shield battery.
so that's pretty much the argument for the legalization of Starcraft in the United States and why I think that Starcraft is a great game and I think that we should try to get rid of cigarettes and the association of tobacco products with marijuana because they're quite different and there's pretty much nothing at all good that comes from the use of tobacco (jury's still out on caffeine but tobacco has been a known problem for a while and it's hard to imagine why that hasn't been solved but i think it has to do with some interested parties who are not being appropriate considerate of others) and that's why they say that everything i need to know i learned in kindergarten (kinder) (garden) lol get it?
yeah i dunno so it's just a play on words and i think that appropriate steps should be taken to legalize Starcraft and possibly even poker depending on how quickly other things can get done but particularly Starcraft and marijuana.
This is simultaneously the best and worst thing I have read on TL.
Um...yeah...you can tell there was thought put into the post, but it's just stream of consciousness-type writing that's barely coherent. Apparently he claims that he's gonna own Bomber when he returns to SC2 in HotS, should be interesting to see how Bomber reacts to getting mindfucked .
On February 20 2012 15:10 phzbox wrote: Not sure what's the fun of playing bronze players and then laughing of them on TL. It's like if a grand chess master played a game of chess against you and would then write an article in a chess magazine to laugh about you.
I'm not sure you get it. One. Gheed is not an equivalent grandmaster starcraft player, Nestea he is not. Two, this isn't just gheed dicking on bronze players, he told them exactly what to do in alot of cases, to try and work the chess analogy, this is like a Grand master playing chess against someone who thinks they are playing checkers.
Honestly, Gheed's blogs are like some Gorillas in the mist, gazing into the abyss style writing, its less funny now, more haunting, that people are stuck in this mindset, and are often so abusive.
On February 20 2012 15:56 phiinix wrote: These blogs confuse me so much. Not sure what league Gheed is ACTUALLY suppose to be in? Does he plan on ever getting out of bronze?
Read the first blog for that.
@ Gheed: I would like to see you make a single unit, and try to use that one unit only to defeat your bronze opponent. Think they could take it? Start at tier 3 and work your way down to whatever tier they are able to hold off.
I just have one question. For worker rushes, how much micro do you use? Because worker rushes are the perfect way to test bronze league, it is a gimmicky strategy that can be foiled by 3 button presses, select workers, a, and move. But as I assume you are a fairly experienced player, how much worker micro do you use? because even if worker rushing would never worlk on a player of equal skill, a bronzie just simply a clicking as you fought from a better angle, retreated low health workers, kited as you regenerated shields and etc, I feel like it woulnd't be hard to see a worker rush fail on a person aware of attack move if they got badly outmicroed.
Your formal tone of speech is fucking hilarious considering the circumstances awesome blog btw uromacef seemed genuinely amused by it too and tried to copy the syntax, so I dont think he was just being sarcastic
I don't even come to these blogs to be entertained anymore but to become more informed of the lower beings that dwell in the realm we call Bronze league. This man deserves a medal or something for his work.
On February 20 2012 15:56 phiinix wrote: These blogs confuse me so much. Not sure what league Gheed is ACTUALLY suppose to be in? Does he plan on ever getting out of bronze?
Read the first blog for that.
@ Gheed: I would like to see you make a single unit, and try to use that one unit only to defeat your bronze opponent. Think they could take it? Start at tier 3 and work your way down to whatever tier they are able to hold off.
I don't think he would have to "work his way down" at all to be honest.
jesus balls i swaer they make you runinto some asteroids on the archenaar interception mission just to see if you can beat the mission anyway
mods don't worry this is just a place holder i have a lot of sc related stuff that i'm gonna be posting here momentarily but i wanna play through a few of these space missions to collect my thoguhts
"I am going to worker rush you. To defeat this, take all your workers and "attack move" by selecting all your workers, pressing A, and left clicking on the ground."
This should be a Bnet tip on the loading screen ^^
I seriously was feeling sorry for you until I started watching the pictures. I was quickly reduced to a laughing maniac who embarrassed himself in a class room full of facebook-addicted teens. I love you, man.
On February 20 2012 17:11 pestilenz wrote: "I am going to worker rush you. To defeat this, take all your workers and "attack move" by selecting all your workers, pressing A, and left clicking on the ground."
This should be a Bnet tip on the loading screen ^^
On February 20 2012 17:11 pestilenz wrote: "I am going to worker rush you. To defeat this, take all your workers and "attack move" by selecting all your workers, pressing A, and left clicking on the ground."
This should be a Bnet tip on the loading screen ^^
I'm in bronze league, have been since I got the game last November. These are words.
I'm 22, been a gamer all my life, very well educated (at least everyone else thinks I'm smart) and I love watching Starcraft 2. I devour streams, watch tournaments whenever they're on. I used to play terran and I'm thinking about switching to zerg. I have a decent starcraft knowledge base, I know unit counters and how to stop cheese but I, after a moment of self reflection due to your claims, recognize that I fail to win games because I don't scout nearly enough and I truly fear the fog of war. In most games I lose turtled up in my natural. If I win a game, its because of cloaked banshee harass that shows up usually around 9 minutes.
I know that I suck. I know that terran isn't UP and that any boosts would negligibly affect my win rate. I am getting better, albiet slowly, but time and frustration prevent me from playing enough games. I have 4-6 hours that I spend on the computer each day where I could play SC2 I choose to watch others play or others commentate. For me, its more fun to watch with an Eagle Eye view two amazing players pushing the very limits of SC2 theory than to dick around trying to emulate their greatness.
I guess the greatest comparison would be I agressively follow football, track stats and know in depth both defensive strategies. I know what a linebacker looks like when he's going to blitz and I see the little adjustments made by the offensive line and wide receivers to react accordingly. I see things before the commentators do and even sometimes correctly call penalties before the ref even throws the flag. But strap on shoulderpads and a cheap plastic helmet and I would be shitting my pants. I tried playing football in HS and let me tell you it fucking sucks. When you suck at something with no real motivation for improvement, aka I will never be paid to play football or SC2, but there is this great alternative for your time (watching the pros do it), it just makes more sense to not care and not devote necessary amounts of time to improving my play.
I will continue to watch SC2 because its entertaining and I am a scholar of the game and its mechanics, but in game I become paralyzed with indecision and fear, almost like a young Steven Hawking trying out for the Giants.
Starcraft and human psyche. Kinda sad, but very interesting. And the Uromacef guy... Cant tell if you got schooled or was he serious...
Its kinda painful to see people trying to win in such conditions, its like a guy believeing that he can destroy a tank with a bow.
However some of these plays reminds me of my first multiplayer games in BW around 2002, when i was cannoning my main base... When i think about it, it was a survival instinct seems like a case.
I can't get enough of these. Hearing that this actually works is just both amusing and depressing at the same time. I'm am still trying to wrap my mind around the willful ignorance.
On February 20 2012 11:35 Failsafe wrote: ok first of all i didn't read this all the way through because what the hell are you doing seriously? this is starcraft II, this isn't starcraft: brood war, there aren't skilled players at F level or D- or whatever the equivalent is that you're arguing exists. in fact, bronze league doesn't even exist as far as i know. the entire diatribe about getting into bronze league, playing in bronze league, or even reaching bronze league from the placement matches is absurd.
as far as i'm concerned bronze league is starcraft ii. i think it's been said, many times, many ways, by the good people of TL.net, at least those who are scholars of the game, true scholars and not just the run-of-the-mill 'n00b' that's running around these forums since 2010 or whenever it was that 'starcraft' 2 showed up. but frankly the only good thing about the new version of a great game is that we can think about total annhilation and how supreme commander was maybe possibly a true successor to that game, but as far as 'starcraft 2' i think WIII was a much more successful and abbreviated game that actually involved some micro and not just a-move terran death balls and protoss death balls and zerg fail balls running around in a virtually incoherent and almost completely nonsensical formation without any reference to unit pathing or some kind of logic stream of flowing combat with units in reasonable locations so that they don't all die at once to one big stupid fucking reaver blast.
now that was a great unit. the reaver. i think there should be a whole thread devoted to the reaver because it was the best unit in any game ever. the reaver catches a lot of flak because of its use as a unit that doesn't kill anything and everything (SEE KROGOTH)
plus your thread is just spam because it involves a milliino pictures. like serious i spent probably 10 minutes disecting and trying to figure out what it was saying and then you just spam it with a bunch of incoherent bronze league pictures and screen shots taken at angles that aren't even possible as though you were manipulating the camera angeles during the battle and how did you do that when you should be taking the time to control your troops? are you using stimulants against your bronze league opponents? that doesn't seem fair the bronziers... how are they gonna compete with you when you're abusing designer amphetamines like vyvanse and over-the-counter products like methamphetamine (which are commonly sold in my home state of ALABAMA).
apparently they make that stuff from battery acid. or so they say.
now let me show you a real game and how to crush some fucking bronze league n00bs X17 style as we used to say back in the golden days of gaming. the real gamers on the site, the founders, the elkies, the rekruls, the djwheats and that other guy with a smiilar name, froz, and fira and GRRRRR and other real gamers like boxer and julyzerg and the koreans like
Lil' Ill (aka ACTION) and JulyJunior (JulyJR A.K.A. Leenock) are true gamers who are following in the footsteps of the professionals like Jaedong and Effort carried the mantel of July and Savior and iloveoov was a true successor to the Emperor and Kingdom and Reach and Nal_rA AND GARIMTO THE TERMINATOR PROTOSS and true professional gamers who had a true love of the game and played a real game like this weakass SC2 is checkers to chess and i can already tell i'm gonna get banned again but i'm gonna teach you chobos how to play like a real gamer played when real video games were available and there were no monthly fees and you survived by your wits and you didn't bow down to the so-called champions of the age but you played them in respectable combat on maps like 255 F&F
and you definitely don't play zerg on that map because your larva wont' spawn fast enough (but that's somethign you can remedy in the SC2 editor which is nice) lol
anyway i don't wanna type a whole fucking dissertation so i'll just use youtube which is way better than your one-frame shots anyway
so check it. yeah there's no sound here, and i hate to rain on your 'color parade' with my black and white no sound video but frankly what you've posted is a disgrace to this forum and the good people who have spent their lives and their hopes and dreams and their tears and their joys and their blood and their guts to create the great haven of gaming that we call Seoul South Korea and the e-sports domain.
so there, now you can see some real gaming and how it looks and how it's supposed to be done by people who knew how to play and knew what a game looked like and didn't spend all their time worrying about grammatical correctness and whether the new-school mods like chill and 'jibba' and these other guys would 'get it'...
frankly the quality standards on this site have gone way down ever since the enforced standards went way up. you guys are suppressing creativity and creating an artificial hierarchy that prevents the truly skiled players from rising to the top. that's why guys like destinya nd incontrol are forcing themselves to stream their games live and it's costing great players like nony and idra the victories that they truly deserve (although some of that is nony's fault for changing his name to tyler)
anyway, the truly skilled defensive masters such as artosis understand or see or know or appreciate or value-highly the true skill as it is showcased by champions of the times past like the great lee yoon yeol who is probably the only player that has shown true terran skill other than boxer and MMA in games that i've watched in GSL. i'm not at all impressed by artosis's pick of bomber, but other than that i think he makes some decent predictions and i'm looking forward to crushing him when i return to SC2 in HoTS. i've decided to play protoss which i think is gonna be awesome once the colossus is removed and other nerfs are made and stuff is changed and improved so that things are better and i'm not just walking around force fielding everything. i feel like the true life line of protoss should be psi storm as it was always meant to be and not this weakass defensive shit. psi storm is defense, u fool, it prevents the zerg from engaging in a variety of spots where otherwise they could achieve cost effectiveness (assuming there is no reaver and don't even mention the colossus)
plus when it comes time to combat, you can effectively deny attack arcs and a variety of things that are problematic for you and advantageous to the zerg (one though) with the proper and accurate placement of psi storm.
feedback should not be a templar ability (duh?) talk about OP... lol
plus archons should be good. i'm not sure if they are. i remember they weren't when their range was 3 but now it's 4 or should it be 5? i dunno frankly i think that the archon is supposed to be a badass and there shouldn't be this obvious power disparity between the archon and the ultralisk. and immortals hard-countering ultralisks like they do, to the extent that they do is absurd. it's like, ok, if i kill all the little stuff with storm or (GOD FORBID COLOSSUS) then i can just clean everything up easily with my immortal where everything is ultralisk because everything else zerg has is countered by the colossus lol and of course you have to use corruptors or some other bullshit to counter the colossus and if you'd just take that unit out of the game (which looks stupid) i think there would be the potential for protoss to be an interesting race once more.
but alas we're devoted to the colossii and they're just great units and despite their idiotic appearance, their absurd range coupled with their speed and their utterly boring micro they're just great and the only thing that can counter them efficiently is the viking or the corruptor in some cases and frankly i don't see how the colossus made it into a $100M game to begin with but it's great and i hope it's still there in heart of the swarm.
anyway, back to the reaver. i see that you assembled your probes in the formation of a reaver which was very clever much like the reaver sentry that was built on the SCMapster site (which needs more love).
anyway someone should get word to evil geniuses and especially incontrol that something like 90% of his problem as a gamer is the fact that he has too much 'slow twitch muscle' from all of his useless weightlifting. if he had fast-twitch muscle and stuff that was actually conducive to playing starcraft he'd probably win a lot more and stop dropping games to under-skilled newbies like destiny who is actually pretty good but he has some mental blocks that he needs to overcome if he's ever gonna excel as a gamer.
anyway i'm hoping to see good performances by idra and i think tasteless and artosis should do some counseling or coaching with the korean OGS and TL and EG teams and i think that with the combined knowledge of those people the game could be advanced a great deal. and maybe even be at some point a worthy successor to starcraft I, the original and best starcraft.
now this guy is a true protoss who is nearly forgotten in the history books. he's fucking awesome had like 400 apm and was just beastly. he used dark archons and high templar and it was years before they became truly popular. so anyway i think it should be clear by now why feedback shouldn't be a high templar spell in starcraft 2 because that creates one super caster. the other problem is that there should be some convenient way to manage multiple caster types or caster groups or whatever maybe you could just combine the spell casting into one command thing so you don't have to tab through caster units and can just cast force field from sentries or whatever if they should even still have that spell i dunno it seems overpowered but frankly it's just not economical or reasonable to have to tab through casters when there's only less than 10 spells or so that they use on a consistent basis you could just put them all in one command card or whatever and there should be no problem with that.
what an epic series like the great tassadar himself conspired to create it for the joy of the netizens
a true apprentice vs master rivalry going the full 5 games and ending in the master's defeat by the apprentice. a truly glorious moment the praises of which should be sung from the hills and high peaks of valhalla throughout the ages.
btw that map was pretty sweet the semi-island thing although i think it was taken out of competitive play due to it being abused by NTT or (maynard??) lol
reach vs iloveoov was another just absolutely incredible series the likes of which hasn't been seen since flash and jaedong MSL finals going the full and then the game was interrupted by technical difficulties.
anyway i hope that flash doesn't succumb to the dangers of carpal tunnel which has already lcaimed the lives of too many great gamers to this day.
i don't know why a bunch of these great games don't have commentary probably because of some racism toward the good folks of korea by the evil corporations preventing the captioning and the updating of the soundcard onboard of some computers.
don't ask me what i mean by that.
lol it's been forever since i watched chojja but he's one of my favoirte players because whenever he's about to lose he gets this clever grin on his face that's like 'lol fool'
chojja is sick and this is obviously gonna be a great game because it sounds like it's set to the musical sounds of Megaman X which was another great game in its own right but single-player games are a lot more difficult to popularize amongst multiple players at one time lol
well anyway
this was one of the first lesbian porns that i watched but i think it was pretty clear that of the two players tossgirl came more prepared
so that's just some random game between nada and tempest from google video and i'm like 900% sure that it's gonna be awesome without even watching it because i just don't have the time... well i do but i'm gearing up for a night of raiding and i'm sure that's gonna be a blast even though i'm only level 20 or less and i can't even raid yet but it'll be good anyway. so that's the future is we're all gonna be playing these gayass MMOs and real games with real strategy and real tactics and shit are pretty much out the window as corporations try to dumb down the american consumer into a droid
i dunno if that's actually true like if it's an insidious plot or if people are just trying to make money and it's not working because the quickest way (currently) or previously is to exploit tendencies that are like 'leaks' or something in poker and people are just raping themselves or whatever and it's probably easily avoidable with some intelligent oversight so the democrats win and obama gets elected to a second term with ron paul as his vice president and almost everyone lives happily ever after but not the muslims because you can't talk about them without someone blowing you up but we're all hoping for the best and it'll probably take a couple generations but i'm sure we can get there if we legalize marijuana and allow people to begin to perceive their own problems and handle them with some rationality or intelligibility or just being cognizant of the effects of their actions (that is karma or universal law or whatever the hindus have been calling it for a while now) and you can see why the indians are so depressed because we had the answers forever / answer forever ago but it just never gets published due to some hangups and corporate concerns and paranoia and general misunderstandings and misgivings that are hard to voice and difficult to enunciate or in other words imperceptible to the 'evil' people who suffer from various neuroses and stuff with similar definitions
anyway i think that this is a good argument for the continuation of the true spirit and game of starcraft as evidenced by Pusan vs Nada in the famous game of 42 gates and the legalization of marijuana which should now be called 720 or something that speaks to the christians because they're like the only population on earth still living in doubt as to whether or not it's a good idea (and it is) to legalize marijuana so that everyone can begin to function with more unity and many of the earth's problems can be solved with ease and accurate information which was denied people for various reasons by various parties with selfish concerns and a unified perspective like that of the great Korean mathematician whose name won't be mentioned here who sought a way to unify and see the Universe with accuracy thanks to the shield battery.
so that's pretty much the argument for the legalization of Starcraft in the United States and why I think that Starcraft is a great game and I think that we should try to get rid of cigarettes and the association of tobacco products with marijuana because they're quite different and there's pretty much nothing at all good that comes from the use of tobacco (jury's still out on caffeine but tobacco has been a known problem for a while and it's hard to imagine why that hasn't been solved but i think it has to do with some interested parties who are not being appropriate considerate of others) and that's why they say that everything i need to know i learned in kindergarten (kinder) (garden) lol get it?
yeah i dunno so it's just a play on words and i think that appropriate steps should be taken to legalize Starcraft and possibly even poker depending on how quickly other things can get done but particularly Starcraft and marijuana.
Guess im the only one that didnt find it amusing, fx when i was i bronze i simply didnt care about getting better. Has my IQ raised from bronze to plat? no, i just started trying to get better.
Awesome as always. I'm just asking myself: "What else is there left to do?" You tried the most idiotic build orders and even told people how to foil your plan and they still lost. I don't think there's anything left to do than just plain giving up.
ok first of all i didn't read this all the way through because what the hell are you doing seriously? this is starcraft II, this isn't starcraft: brood war, there aren't skilled players at F level or D- or whatever the equivalent is that you're arguing exists. in fact, bronze league doesn't even exist as far as i know. the entire diatribe about getting into bronze league, playing in bronze league, or even reaching bronze league from the placement matches is absurd.
as far as i'm concerned bronze league is starcraft ii. i think it's been said, many times, many ways, by the good people of TL.net, at least those who are scholars of the game, true scholars and not just the run-of-the-mill 'n00b' that's running around these forums since 2010 or whenever it was that 'starcraft' 2 showed up. but frankly the only good thing about the new version of a great game is that we can think about total annhilation and how supreme commander was maybe possibly a true successor to that game, but as far as 'starcraft 2' i think WIII was a much more successful and abbreviated game that actually involved some micro and not just a-move terran death balls and protoss death balls and zerg fail balls running around in a virtually incoherent and almost completely nonsensical formation without any reference to unit pathing or some kind of logic stream of flowing combat with units in reasonable locations so that they don't all die at once to one big stupid fucking reaver blast.
now that was a great unit. the reaver. i think there should be a whole thread devoted to the reaver because it was the best unit in any game ever. the reaver catches a lot of flak because of its use as a unit that doesn't kill anything and everything (SEE KROGOTH)
plus your thread is just spam because it involves a milliino pictures. like serious i spent probably 10 minutes disecting and trying to figure out what it was saying and then you just spam it with a bunch of incoherent bronze league pictures and screen shots taken at angles that aren't even possible as though you were manipulating the camera angeles during the battle and how did you do that when you should be taking the time to control your troops? are you using stimulants against your bronze league opponents? that doesn't seem fair the bronziers... how are they gonna compete with you when you're abusing designer amphetamines like vyvanse and over-the-counter products like methamphetamine (which are commonly sold in my home state of ALABAMA).
apparently they make that stuff from battery acid. or so they say.
now let me show you a real game and how to crush some fucking bronze league n00bs X17 style as we used to say back in the golden days of gaming. the real gamers on the site, the founders, the elkies, the rekruls, the djwheats and that other guy with a smiilar name, froz, and fira and GRRRRR and other real gamers like boxer and julyzerg and the koreans like
Lil' Ill (aka ACTION) and JulyJunior (JulyJR A.K.A. Leenock) are true gamers who are following in the footsteps of the professionals like Jaedong and Effort carried the mantel of July and Savior and iloveoov was a true successor to the Emperor and Kingdom and Reach and Nal_rA AND GARIMTO THE TERMINATOR PROTOSS and true professional gamers who had a true love of the game and played a real game like this weakass SC2 is checkers to chess and i can already tell i'm gonna get banned again but i'm gonna teach you chobos how to play like a real gamer played when real video games were available and there were no monthly fees and you survived by your wits and you didn't bow down to the so-called champions of the age but you played them in respectable combat on maps like 255 F&F
and you definitely don't play zerg on that map because your larva wont' spawn fast enough (but that's somethign you can remedy in the SC2 editor which is nice) lol
anyway i don't wanna type a whole fucking dissertation so i'll just use youtube which is way better than your one-frame shots anyway
so check it. yeah there's no sound here, and i hate to rain on your 'color parade' with my black and white no sound video but frankly what you've posted is a disgrace to this forum and the good people who have spent their lives and their hopes and dreams and their tears and their joys and their blood and their guts to create the great haven of gaming that we call Seoul South Korea and the e-sports domain.
so there, now you can see some real gaming and how it looks and how it's supposed to be done by people who knew how to play and knew what a game looked like and didn't spend all their time worrying about grammatical correctness and whether the new-school mods like chill and 'jibba' and these other guys would 'get it'...
frankly the quality standards on this site have gone way down ever since the enforced standards went way up. you guys are suppressing creativity and creating an artificial hierarchy that prevents the truly skiled players from rising to the top. that's why guys like destinya nd incontrol are forcing themselves to stream their games live and it's costing great players like nony and idra the victories that they truly deserve (although some of that is nony's fault for changing his name to tyler)
anyway, the truly skilled defensive masters such as artosis understand or see or know or appreciate or value-highly the true skill as it is showcased by champions of the times past like the great lee yoon yeol who is probably the only player that has shown true terran skill other than boxer and MMA in games that i've watched in GSL. i'm not at all impressed by artosis's pick of bomber, but other than that i think he makes some decent predictions and i'm looking forward to crushing him when i return to SC2 in HoTS. i've decided to play protoss which i think is gonna be awesome once the colossus is removed and other nerfs are made and stuff is changed and improved so that things are better and i'm not just walking around force fielding everything. i feel like the true life line of protoss should be psi storm as it was always meant to be and not this weakass defensive shit. psi storm is defense, u fool, it prevents the zerg from engaging in a variety of spots where otherwise they could achieve cost effectiveness (assuming there is no reaver and don't even mention the colossus)
plus when it comes time to combat, you can effectively deny attack arcs and a variety of things that are problematic for you and advantageous to the zerg (one though) with the proper and accurate placement of psi storm.
feedback should not be a templar ability (duh?) talk about OP... lol
plus archons should be good. i'm not sure if they are. i remember they weren't when their range was 3 but now it's 4 or should it be 5? i dunno frankly i think that the archon is supposed to be a badass and there shouldn't be this obvious power disparity between the archon and the ultralisk. and immortals hard-countering ultralisks like they do, to the extent that they do is absurd. it's like, ok, if i kill all the little stuff with storm or (GOD FORBID COLOSSUS) then i can just clean everything up easily with my immortal where everything is ultralisk because everything else zerg has is countered by the colossus lol and of course you have to use corruptors or some other bullshit to counter the colossus and if you'd just take that unit out of the game (which looks stupid) i think there would be the potential for protoss to be an interesting race once more.
but alas we're devoted to the colossii and they're just great units and despite their idiotic appearance, their absurd range coupled with their speed and their utterly boring micro they're just great and the only thing that can counter them efficiently is the viking or the corruptor in some cases and frankly i don't see how the colossus made it into a $100M game to begin with but it's great and i hope it's still there in heart of the swarm.
anyway, back to the reaver. i see that you assembled your probes in the formation of a reaver which was very clever much like the reaver sentry that was built on the SCMapster site (which needs more love).
anyway someone should get word to evil geniuses and especially incontrol that something like 90% of his problem as a gamer is the fact that he has too much 'slow twitch muscle' from all of his useless weightlifting. if he had fast-twitch muscle and stuff that was actually conducive to playing starcraft he'd probably win a lot more and stop dropping games to under-skilled newbies like destiny who is actually pretty good but he has some mental blocks that he needs to overcome if he's ever gonna excel as a gamer.
anyway i'm hoping to see good performances by idra and i think tasteless and artosis should do some counseling or coaching with the korean OGS and TL and EG teams and i think that with the combined knowledge of those people the game could be advanced a great deal. and maybe even be at some point a worthy successor to starcraft I, the original and best starcraft.
now this guy is a true protoss who is nearly forgotten in the history books. he's fucking awesome had like 400 apm and was just beastly. he used dark archons and high templar and it was years before they became truly popular. so anyway i think it should be clear by now why feedback shouldn't be a high templar spell in starcraft 2 because that creates one super caster. the other problem is that there should be some convenient way to manage multiple caster types or caster groups or whatever maybe you could just combine the spell casting into one command thing so you don't have to tab through caster units and can just cast force field from sentries or whatever if they should even still have that spell i dunno it seems overpowered but frankly it's just not economical or reasonable to have to tab through casters when there's only less than 10 spells or so that they use on a consistent basis you could just put them all in one command card or whatever and there should be no problem with that.
what an epic series like the great tassadar himself conspired to create it for the joy of the netizens
a true apprentice vs master rivalry going the full 5 games and ending in the master's defeat by the apprentice. a truly glorious moment the praises of which should be sung from the hills and high peaks of valhalla throughout the ages.
btw that map was pretty sweet the semi-island thing although i think it was taken out of competitive play due to it being abused by NTT or (maynard??) lol
reach vs iloveoov was another just absolutely incredible series the likes of which hasn't been seen since flash and jaedong MSL finals going the full and then the game was interrupted by technical difficulties.
anyway i hope that flash doesn't succumb to the dangers of carpal tunnel which has already lcaimed the lives of too many great gamers to this day.
i don't know why a bunch of these great games don't have commentary probably because of some racism toward the good folks of korea by the evil corporations preventing the captioning and the updating of the soundcard onboard of some computers.
don't ask me what i mean by that.
lol it's been forever since i watched chojja but he's one of my favoirte players because whenever he's about to lose he gets this clever grin on his face that's like 'lol fool'
chojja is sick and this is obviously gonna be a great game because it sounds like it's set to the musical sounds of Megaman X which was another great game in its own right but single-player games are a lot more difficult to popularize amongst multiple players at one time lol
well anyway
this was one of the first lesbian porns that i watched but i think it was pretty clear that of the two players tossgirl came more prepared
so that's just some random game between nada and tempest from google video and i'm like 900% sure that it's gonna be awesome without even watching it because i just don't have the time... well i do but i'm gearing up for a night of raiding and i'm sure that's gonna be a blast even though i'm only level 20 or less and i can't even raid yet but it'll be good anyway. so that's the future is we're all gonna be playing these gayass MMOs and real games with real strategy and real tactics and shit are pretty much out the window as corporations try to dumb down the american consumer into a droid
i dunno if that's actually true like if it's an insidious plot or if people are just trying to make money and it's not working because the quickest way (currently) or previously is to exploit tendencies that are like 'leaks' or something in poker and people are just raping themselves or whatever and it's probably easily avoidable with some intelligent oversight so the democrats win and obama gets elected to a second term with ron paul as his vice president and almost everyone lives happily ever after but not the muslims because you can't talk about them without someone blowing you up but we're all hoping for the best and it'll probably take a couple generations but i'm sure we can get there if we legalize marijuana and allow people to begin to perceive their own problems and handle them with some rationality or intelligibility or just being cognizant of the effects of their actions (that is karma or universal law or whatever the hindus have been calling it for a while now) and you can see why the indians are so depressed because we had the answers forever / answer forever ago but it just never gets published due to some hangups and corporate concerns and paranoia and general misunderstandings and misgivings that are hard to voice and difficult to enunciate or in other words imperceptible to the 'evil' people who suffer from various neuroses and stuff with similar definitions
anyway i think that this is a good argument for the continuation of the true spirit and game of starcraft as evidenced by Pusan vs Nada in the famous game of 42 gates and the legalization of marijuana which should now be called 720 or something that speaks to the christians because they're like the only population on earth still living in doubt as to whether or not it's a good idea (and it is) to legalize marijuana so that everyone can begin to function with more unity and many of the earth's problems can be solved with ease and accurate information which was denied people for various reasons by various parties with selfish concerns and a unified perspective like that of the great Korean mathematician whose name won't be mentioned here who sought a way to unify and see the Universe with accuracy thanks to the shield battery.
so that's pretty much the argument for the legalization of Starcraft in the United States and why I think that Starcraft is a great game and I think that we should try to get rid of cigarettes and the association of tobacco products with marijuana because they're quite different and there's pretty much nothing at all good that comes from the use of tobacco (jury's still out on caffeine but tobacco has been a known problem for a while and it's hard to imagine why that hasn't been solved but i think it has to do with some interested parties who are not being appropriate considerate of others) and that's why they say that everything i need to know i learned in kindergarten (kinder) (garden) lol get it?
yeah i dunno so it's just a play on words and i think that appropriate steps should be taken to legalize Starcraft and possibly even poker depending on how quickly other things can get done but particularly Starcraft and marijuana.
it's funny how you can tell that none of the mods actually read this post...
On February 20 2012 14:54 nAFARIOUS wrote: I completely agree with this. As a bronze player. (I did my placement matches before knowing a lick of Starcraft.) I can attest to how absolutely horrible it is. I have found that I usually have to four gate most of my enemies because I can't play Zerg on my bronze account because the macro/micro heavy games are just preposterous. There is none. You can try, but it is a waste of your time. If you don't rush your enemy he will either have mass battle cruisers, mass roaches, or mass stalkers. Its just a I'll do this game to them. No late game no macro just making units. This is why I made another account and got placed in gold. I had to make another account because I could no longer stand the amount of trouble it took to get out of bronze. I could honestly feel myself getting worse at the game.
lol dude, I seriously hope you're trolling us here
Actually, I think I can understand the bronze players. When I "played" Starcraft 1, I pretty much only played against my brother, co-op vs AI, single vs AI... And then the easiest strategy was just to turtle to defend the initial pushes, and to slowly tech and expand - and to produce some ridiculous army (like mass Battlecruisers, Carriers or Ultralisks).
I think I will always remember the first game I played on the original Battle.net. There was no matchmaking, so I just joined some game called "1v1 - noobs only". However, the opponent wasn't 100% terrible like I was. I picked Terran and proceeded to turtle on one base with bunkers, turrets and siege tanks. While I was doing that, the Zerg opponent took EVERY base on the map and created a continuous stream of zerglings towards my base. I held the attack for quite long, since tanks and bunkers were so cost-effective, but eventually I lost to the sheer amount of zerglings.
After that, I don't think I ever dared to play a 1v1 game again (I was quite young at the time). Instead, I just played something like Fastest Map Possible for some time and then quit.
I didn't touch SC1 again, since I grew used to better graphics and interfaces. When the SC2 beta began, I followed the tournaments like HDH Invitational, common strategies, patch changes, forum discussion etc. So it was much easier to start playing the actual game, when I already understood the basic concepts.
I think I was in SC1 what you would call a "bronze player". So, I think it's a bit harsh to unnecessarily bash the SC2 bronze players, who probably have no idea of the basic mechanics and strategies in the game. After all, if you don't watch tournaments or look up any build orders on the internet, it can be pretty challenging to discover how to play SC2 without any assistance. If you had never played SC1 or looked for SC2 information on the internet, you might also be playing the ladder like you would vs AI
On February 20 2012 22:02 Xatalos wrote: Actually, I think I can understand the bronze players. When I "played" Starcraft 1, I pretty much only played against my brother, co-op vs AI, single vs AI... And then the easiest strategy was just to turtle to defend the initial pushes, and to slowly tech and expand - and to produce some ridiculous army (like mass Battlecruisers, Carriers or Ultralisks).
I think I will always remember the first game I played on the original Battle.net. There was no matchmaking, so I just joined some game called "1v1 - noobs only". However, the opponent wasn't 100% terrible like I was. I picked Terran and proceeded to turtle on one base with bunkers, turrets and siege tanks. While I was doing that, the Zerg opponent took EVERY base on the map and created a continuous stream of zerglings towards my base. I held the attack for quite long, since tanks and bunkers were so cost-effective, but eventually I lost to the sheer amount of zerglings.
After that, I don't think I ever dared to play a 1v1 game again (I was quite young at the time). Instead, I just played something like Fastest Map Possible for some time and then quit.
I didn't touch SC1 again, since I grew used to better graphics and interfaces. When the SC2 beta began, I followed the tournaments like HDH Invitational, common strategies, patch changes, forum discussion etc. So it was much easier to start playing the actual game, when I already understood the basic concepts.
I think I was in SC1 what you would call a "bronze player". So, I think it's a bit harsh to unnecessarily bash the SC2 bronze players, who probably have no idea of the basic mechanics and strategies in the game. After all, if you don't watch tournaments or look up any build orders on the internet, it can be pretty challenging to discover how to play SC2 without any assistance. If you had never played SC1 or looked for SC2 information on the internet, you might also be playing the ladder like you would vs AI
you played 1 competitive match, lost and left.. these guys have 100+ games each
ok first of all i didn't read this all the way through because what the hell are you doing seriously? this is starcraft II, this isn't starcraft: brood war, there aren't skilled players at F level or D- or whatever the equivalent is that you're arguing exists. in fact, bronze league doesn't even exist as far as i know. the entire diatribe about getting into bronze league, playing in bronze league, or even reaching bronze league from the placement matches is absurd.
as far as i'm concerned bronze league is starcraft ii. i think it's been said, many times, many ways, by the good people of TL.net, at least those who are scholars of the game, true scholars and not just the run-of-the-mill 'n00b' that's running around these forums since 2010 or whenever it was that 'starcraft' 2 showed up. but frankly the only good thing about the new version of a great game is that we can think about total annhilation and how supreme commander was maybe possibly a true successor to that game, but as far as 'starcraft 2' i think WIII was a much more successful and abbreviated game that actually involved some micro and not just a-move terran death balls and protoss death balls and zerg fail balls running around in a virtually incoherent and almost completely nonsensical formation without any reference to unit pathing or some kind of logic stream of flowing combat with units in reasonable locations so that they don't all die at once to one big stupid fucking reaver blast.
now that was a great unit. the reaver. i think there should be a whole thread devoted to the reaver because it was the best unit in any game ever. the reaver catches a lot of flak because of its use as a unit that doesn't kill anything and everything (SEE KROGOTH)
plus your thread is just spam because it involves a milliino pictures. like serious i spent probably 10 minutes disecting and trying to figure out what it was saying and then you just spam it with a bunch of incoherent bronze league pictures and screen shots taken at angles that aren't even possible as though you were manipulating the camera angeles during the battle and how did you do that when you should be taking the time to control your troops? are you using stimulants against your bronze league opponents? that doesn't seem fair the bronziers... how are they gonna compete with you when you're abusing designer amphetamines like vyvanse and over-the-counter products like methamphetamine (which are commonly sold in my home state of ALABAMA).
apparently they make that stuff from battery acid. or so they say.
now let me show you a real game and how to crush some fucking bronze league n00bs X17 style as we used to say back in the golden days of gaming. the real gamers on the site, the founders, the elkies, the rekruls, the djwheats and that other guy with a smiilar name, froz, and fira and GRRRRR and other real gamers like boxer and julyzerg and the koreans like
Lil' Ill (aka ACTION) and JulyJunior (JulyJR A.K.A. Leenock) are true gamers who are following in the footsteps of the professionals like Jaedong and Effort carried the mantel of July and Savior and iloveoov was a true successor to the Emperor and Kingdom and Reach and Nal_rA AND GARIMTO THE TERMINATOR PROTOSS and true professional gamers who had a true love of the game and played a real game like this weakass SC2 is checkers to chess and i can already tell i'm gonna get banned again but i'm gonna teach you chobos how to play like a real gamer played when real video games were available and there were no monthly fees and you survived by your wits and you didn't bow down to the so-called champions of the age but you played them in respectable combat on maps like 255 F&F
and you definitely don't play zerg on that map because your larva wont' spawn fast enough (but that's somethign you can remedy in the SC2 editor which is nice) lol
anyway i don't wanna type a whole fucking dissertation so i'll just use youtube which is way better than your one-frame shots anyway
so check it. yeah there's no sound here, and i hate to rain on your 'color parade' with my black and white no sound video but frankly what you've posted is a disgrace to this forum and the good people who have spent their lives and their hopes and dreams and their tears and their joys and their blood and their guts to create the great haven of gaming that we call Seoul South Korea and the e-sports domain.
so there, now you can see some real gaming and how it looks and how it's supposed to be done by people who knew how to play and knew what a game looked like and didn't spend all their time worrying about grammatical correctness and whether the new-school mods like chill and 'jibba' and these other guys would 'get it'...
frankly the quality standards on this site have gone way down ever since the enforced standards went way up. you guys are suppressing creativity and creating an artificial hierarchy that prevents the truly skiled players from rising to the top. that's why guys like destinya nd incontrol are forcing themselves to stream their games live and it's costing great players like nony and idra the victories that they truly deserve (although some of that is nony's fault for changing his name to tyler)
anyway, the truly skilled defensive masters such as artosis understand or see or know or appreciate or value-highly the true skill as it is showcased by champions of the times past like the great lee yoon yeol who is probably the only player that has shown true terran skill other than boxer and MMA in games that i've watched in GSL. i'm not at all impressed by artosis's pick of bomber, but other than that i think he makes some decent predictions and i'm looking forward to crushing him when i return to SC2 in HoTS. i've decided to play protoss which i think is gonna be awesome once the colossus is removed and other nerfs are made and stuff is changed and improved so that things are better and i'm not just walking around force fielding everything. i feel like the true life line of protoss should be psi storm as it was always meant to be and not this weakass defensive shit. psi storm is defense, u fool, it prevents the zerg from engaging in a variety of spots where otherwise they could achieve cost effectiveness (assuming there is no reaver and don't even mention the colossus)
plus when it comes time to combat, you can effectively deny attack arcs and a variety of things that are problematic for you and advantageous to the zerg (one though) with the proper and accurate placement of psi storm.
feedback should not be a templar ability (duh?) talk about OP... lol
plus archons should be good. i'm not sure if they are. i remember they weren't when their range was 3 but now it's 4 or should it be 5? i dunno frankly i think that the archon is supposed to be a badass and there shouldn't be this obvious power disparity between the archon and the ultralisk. and immortals hard-countering ultralisks like they do, to the extent that they do is absurd. it's like, ok, if i kill all the little stuff with storm or (GOD FORBID COLOSSUS) then i can just clean everything up easily with my immortal where everything is ultralisk because everything else zerg has is countered by the colossus lol and of course you have to use corruptors or some other bullshit to counter the colossus and if you'd just take that unit out of the game (which looks stupid) i think there would be the potential for protoss to be an interesting race once more.
but alas we're devoted to the colossii and they're just great units and despite their idiotic appearance, their absurd range coupled with their speed and their utterly boring micro they're just great and the only thing that can counter them efficiently is the viking or the corruptor in some cases and frankly i don't see how the colossus made it into a $100M game to begin with but it's great and i hope it's still there in heart of the swarm.
anyway, back to the reaver. i see that you assembled your probes in the formation of a reaver which was very clever much like the reaver sentry that was built on the SCMapster site (which needs more love).
anyway someone should get word to evil geniuses and especially incontrol that something like 90% of his problem as a gamer is the fact that he has too much 'slow twitch muscle' from all of his useless weightlifting. if he had fast-twitch muscle and stuff that was actually conducive to playing starcraft he'd probably win a lot more and stop dropping games to under-skilled newbies like destiny who is actually pretty good but he has some mental blocks that he needs to overcome if he's ever gonna excel as a gamer.
anyway i'm hoping to see good performances by idra and i think tasteless and artosis should do some counseling or coaching with the korean OGS and TL and EG teams and i think that with the combined knowledge of those people the game could be advanced a great deal. and maybe even be at some point a worthy successor to starcraft I, the original and best starcraft.
now this guy is a true protoss who is nearly forgotten in the history books. he's fucking awesome had like 400 apm and was just beastly. he used dark archons and high templar and it was years before they became truly popular. so anyway i think it should be clear by now why feedback shouldn't be a high templar spell in starcraft 2 because that creates one super caster. the other problem is that there should be some convenient way to manage multiple caster types or caster groups or whatever maybe you could just combine the spell casting into one command thing so you don't have to tab through caster units and can just cast force field from sentries or whatever if they should even still have that spell i dunno it seems overpowered but frankly it's just not economical or reasonable to have to tab through casters when there's only less than 10 spells or so that they use on a consistent basis you could just put them all in one command card or whatever and there should be no problem with that.
what an epic series like the great tassadar himself conspired to create it for the joy of the netizens
a true apprentice vs master rivalry going the full 5 games and ending in the master's defeat by the apprentice. a truly glorious moment the praises of which should be sung from the hills and high peaks of valhalla throughout the ages.
btw that map was pretty sweet the semi-island thing although i think it was taken out of competitive play due to it being abused by NTT or (maynard??) lol
reach vs iloveoov was another just absolutely incredible series the likes of which hasn't been seen since flash and jaedong MSL finals going the full and then the game was interrupted by technical difficulties.
anyway i hope that flash doesn't succumb to the dangers of carpal tunnel which has already lcaimed the lives of too many great gamers to this day.
i don't know why a bunch of these great games don't have commentary probably because of some racism toward the good folks of korea by the evil corporations preventing the captioning and the updating of the soundcard onboard of some computers.
don't ask me what i mean by that.
lol it's been forever since i watched chojja but he's one of my favoirte players because whenever he's about to lose he gets this clever grin on his face that's like 'lol fool'
chojja is sick and this is obviously gonna be a great game because it sounds like it's set to the musical sounds of Megaman X which was another great game in its own right but single-player games are a lot more difficult to popularize amongst multiple players at one time lol
well anyway
this was one of the first lesbian porns that i watched but i think it was pretty clear that of the two players tossgirl came more prepared
so that's just some random game between nada and tempest from google video and i'm like 900% sure that it's gonna be awesome without even watching it because i just don't have the time... well i do but i'm gearing up for a night of raiding and i'm sure that's gonna be a blast even though i'm only level 20 or less and i can't even raid yet but it'll be good anyway. so that's the future is we're all gonna be playing these gayass MMOs and real games with real strategy and real tactics and shit are pretty much out the window as corporations try to dumb down the american consumer into a droid
i dunno if that's actually true like if it's an insidious plot or if people are just trying to make money and it's not working because the quickest way (currently) or previously is to exploit tendencies that are like 'leaks' or something in poker and people are just raping themselves or whatever and it's probably easily avoidable with some intelligent oversight so the democrats win and obama gets elected to a second term with ron paul as his vice president and almost everyone lives happily ever after but not the muslims because you can't talk about them without someone blowing you up but we're all hoping for the best and it'll probably take a couple generations but i'm sure we can get there if we legalize marijuana and allow people to begin to perceive their own problems and handle them with some rationality or intelligibility or just being cognizant of the effects of their actions (that is karma or universal law or whatever the hindus have been calling it for a while now) and you can see why the indians are so depressed because we had the answers forever / answer forever ago but it just never gets published due to some hangups and corporate concerns and paranoia and general misunderstandings and misgivings that are hard to voice and difficult to enunciate or in other words imperceptible to the 'evil' people who suffer from various neuroses and stuff with similar definitions
anyway i think that this is a good argument for the continuation of the true spirit and game of starcraft as evidenced by Pusan vs Nada in the famous game of 42 gates and the legalization of marijuana which should now be called 720 or something that speaks to the christians because they're like the only population on earth still living in doubt as to whether or not it's a good idea (and it is) to legalize marijuana so that everyone can begin to function with more unity and many of the earth's problems can be solved with ease and accurate information which was denied people for various reasons by various parties with selfish concerns and a unified perspective like that of the great Korean mathematician whose name won't be mentioned here who sought a way to unify and see the Universe with accuracy thanks to the shield battery.
so that's pretty much the argument for the legalization of Starcraft in the United States and why I think that Starcraft is a great game and I think that we should try to get rid of cigarettes and the association of tobacco products with marijuana because they're quite different and there's pretty much nothing at all good that comes from the use of tobacco (jury's still out on caffeine but tobacco has been a known problem for a while and it's hard to imagine why that hasn't been solved but i think it has to do with some interested parties who are not being appropriate considerate of others) and that's why they say that everything i need to know i learned in kindergarten (kinder) (garden) lol get it?
yeah i dunno so it's just a play on words and i think that appropriate steps should be taken to legalize Starcraft and possibly even poker depending on how quickly other things can get done but particularly Starcraft and marijuana.
On February 20 2012 22:07 kerpal wrote: you played 1 competitive match, lost and left.. these guys have 100+ games each
Well, that's a good point However, just mindlessly playing 100 games isn't much better than playing one game, right? Unless you learn the basic concepts of the game (by having a friend teach you, Liquipedia, YouTube videos...), it's not so easy to improve meaningfully. If you just play 1v1 without knowledge, you will probably not learn very fast (think about it, your opponents are terrible and you'll be basing your gameplans around that...).
I have SC2 since release. I started playing online (EU server) around January 2011. In season 4, I got to Silver for the first time. In Season 6, I dropped back to Bronze. Not because I don't want to improve (e.g. in that time my APM has gone up from about 15 to around 60-65, and when I first got Silver I almost fainted), but mostly because of the ladder anxiety I've been struggling with for all this time; I'm working on that now, and you're helping a lot with that. I'll explain.
I realise that I'm absolutely terrible at this game being in the league that I am in, but when reading this blog I became not only mad at but also deeply ashamed of myself. How could I be in a league with people that do not know how to A-move? That believed a PF would be able to finish before a worker rush arrived, even on a map like Tal'Darim? This blog, very well-written and a good read I must add, has motivated me to play (a lot) more and get my ass out of EU Bronze League ASAP, as I dread every moment of being associated with such incredible ignorance like that which you faced during your experiment. Silver may not be much (if any) better, but at least I'll be rid of the Bronze League stigma.
So, indirectly, you've helped another bronzie get his act together :D Thank you!
As a Bronze player myself, I find myself versing people mentioned in the article, but mostly players that aren't as bad. It kind of frustrated me that I don't often get matched with the type of players mentioned (didn't seem to describe most Bronze players). Some players aren't that bad. However, then something happened that made me think twice about my frustration.
I am a Protoss player, and accidentally entered a game playing as Terran (the 'how' doesn't matter). I've not played Terran before so I was in a panic. It was a TvZ. I thought it would be a sure loss, since I have little knowledge of Terran build or what creates what. However, after multiple banelings busting my wall and zerglings trying to attack my mineral line, I managed, with little effort, to win the game. I only had SUVs and a bunch of Marines.
W T F?
Maybe just reading the article has benefited me in some way. It has opened my eyes to see the mistakes a player can make and use it to my advantage.
This post was awesome. I still can't believe how much time i spent in bronze. How i self taught myself to win in bronze, expand then learn to spend minerals. Eventually they tire themselves out and i win. Repeat until polished. I can't believe how much more i know now. But everyone starts somewhere. Also if it helps I have several friends who are forever bronze, and I would like to say part of it is fear. Some do know there bad, but multiply that fear of being bad by astronomical amounts so they never attempt to try to learn so they don't have to feel bad. And then there are some people who are just bad, like my friend who plays Terran and has like a 90% loss rate to 6 pool cause he still can't wall off...
In general it’s easier to just do one strategy over and over than being able to deflect any kind of cheese. As stupid as work rush might seem the hate is understandable because you don’t show “skill” by executing one strategy and they have no way of knowing what your intentions are (one trick pony vs. social experiment). That’s why like the recent trend to try to warn them and make them react properly, it’s more scientific, rather than just annoying :D. Anyway, you know how to present it well, it’s really funny .
many bronzies have probably never had to deal with a worker rush before, and even if you tell them how to beat it, some are just not used to thinking that fast. also, i don't think they realize it is a must-defend situation until it is too late. i admire your work, though, it might eventually make a few bronzies stop thinking they know everything.
there's pretty much no such thing as a must-defend situation in the sense that no single move can cause you to lose the game permanently but rather defeat is an eventuality that is earned rather than experienced over the course of a great period of time. i think this is where fatigue and stamina demonstrate or show the superiority of the defensive style as "+1'ing" the offensive style, but this makes sense for the most part in purely stylistic terms and at higher levels of conceptual play you can apply parameter values to the "+1'ing" (thus negating the validity of Day[9]'s article on programming or whatever)
so in the end i think a balance of offensive and defensive styles is probably optimal and that any purely defensive strategy is almost certain to fail (and that a superior conceptualization of strategics is something like cauchy convergence which allows for more variety in terms of stylistic constraints)
more-or-less i don't necessarily agree with the viability of tit-for-tat or rather i disagree with its supremacy as a strategy because in my mind the necessary assumptions render any model of a simple tit-for-tat strategy as a supremely dominant strategy to be an overly-simplistic model.
sort of sleepy after reading this whole thread and i guess i'm just gonna revisit it later but try not to be too discouraged Gheed, i think what you've done here is good, on the whole, and for the most part there are no bronze players reading it anyway (and comprehending what you're saying) so i'm sure they're not offended, and i think you knew that intuitively.
On February 21 2012 00:33 Failsafe wrote: there's pretty much no such thing as a must-defend situation in the sense that no single move can cause you to lose the game permanently but rather defeat is an eventuality that is earned rather than experienced over the course of a great period of time. i think this is where fatigue and stamina demonstrate or show the superiority of the defensive style as "+1'ing" the offensive style, but this makes sense for the most part in purely stylistic terms and at higher levels of conceptual play you can apply parameter values to the "+1'ing" (thus negating the validity of Day[9]'s article on programming or whatever)
so in the end i think a balance of offensive and defensive styles is probably optimal and that any purely defensive strategy is almost certain to fail (and that a superior conceptualization of strategics is something like cauchy convergence which allows for more variety in terms of stylistic constraints)
more-or-less i don't necessarily agree with the viability of tit-for-tat or rather i disagree with its supremacy as a strategy because in my mind the necessary assumptions render any model of a simple tit-for-tat strategy as a supremely dominant strategy to be an overly-simplistic model.
sort of sleepy after reading this whole thread and i guess i'm just gonna revisit it later but try not to be too discouraged Gheed, i think what you've done here is good, on the whole, and for the most part there are no bronze players reading it anyway (and comprehending what you're saying) so i'm sure they're not offended, and i think you knew that intuitively.
I'm not entirely sure what you're on about, but I'm glad to have you on board, sir.
Played in bronze league once. It was painful to try to lose. I think its harder for a masters player to lose vs a bronze player legitimately than to win vs a pro player. I won 80 games in a row. Was sad. Good write up.
You put in words what we all wanted to make clear. Basically, the answer to getting better isn't simply "macro" or "micro", but it's to ask yourself the question: If X happens, how do I defend it? If Y happens, how do I defend it?
It's exactly this sort of thinking that propels a player into managing their economy and working towards that vague concept of "macro" that we tend to preach to lower level players. On a similar level, even "micro" involves the same type of question: How can I most cost-efficiently position and utilize my units in this skirmish?
I have one friend IRL who is Bronze, and talking to him about the game always degenerates into "This race OP", "Everyone cheeses in Bronze", "This unit is too strong", and all of that talk upsets me. Sure, as a 1250 point master, I have my own complaints, but as was talked about in the Bronze is Hell blog, I try to own them and I genuinely know the result of a loss was my own fault.
I think his blog entry attempted to get inside the mind of a Bronze player, which as he said, is not necessarily a "new" player. He said that only a few people had 100 games or less. The majority actually had many more games. So you can't use the excuse that these were "new" players. So the question remains: How can you play so much and not learn from your mistakes?
I guess the whole issue fascinates me on some level and I'd like to know what people think. Whether they completely disagree with and are angry with me or they are captivated by this issue as well.
When i bought my second account, I played a single game in practise league. It was on a TvZ on the Steps of War beginner-version. I got to 4 bases, went mutas, maxed out on mutas, mined for a bit, tried to suicide all my workers, then realised he wasnt able to kill them, killed them myself, got 200 supply of mutas. I didnt attack, just watched. He didnt wall of, had like 10 workers, expanded to his natural 25 minutes in the game, got a pf at both bases, was on 2 rax, 2 facts and 2 starports each with 1 techlab and 1 reactor, but he only build units very occasionally. I gg'ed out of the game when he had about 20 marines a tank and 1 of each starport units except the battlecruiser at the 35 minute mark. It was an interesting experience.
A very entertaining read, I love your observations on the mind of a bronze player. I've seen many of these same ideas in friends of mine who I'm trying to teach about the game, and I think I'll try to start with even more basic instructions next time we play. Excellent job, absolutely hilarious.
On February 20 2012 08:59 Gheed wrote: I think it is most often "I lost," not "he won."
To them it's not their fault they lost; it's because their opponent is a noob/cheeser/hacker/better race/etc. They are enraged and defensive because I have challenged their perceived level of skill in such an abrupt and decisive manner. This refusal to acknowledge failures and learn from them leads to the stagnation that has created the bronze we know today, the bronze that I presume will exist for as long as the game does. It is not so interesting that bronze players are bad, it is interesting that they are bad at learning
Refusing to acknowledge your own downfalls as the reason for a loss is the reason a LOT of people stay in lower leagues.
I'm a plat zerg and yesterday I played a terran with this attitude.My opponent opted to drop which I promptly shut down with infestors. He lost all eight of his medivacs over four drops and only killed two queens, an infestor, and a handful of drones. My opponent took the opportunity to tell me "infestors are gay".
A friend in low masters plays a style that's more "one the edge" (read: cheesy) and consistently gets bad mannered with balance complaints. It's as if a player thinks their masters icon means they have nothing else to learn. And with that kind of attitude they certainly will not.
This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.
All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking and selection.
They build cannons for early defense because even badly placed cannons protect them several times better than any zealot controlled by them.
They don't scout because their control is so bad that they won't see anything before the unit dies.
They lose to worker rushes because selecting all workers and attack moving and focus firing requires a level of speed and precision that is inconcievable and unattainable for them. (I can't count the times when I tried to attack move my drones in response to a 6pool and instead attacked my hatch or pool with them).
This is the one thing better players just don't grasp. They are completely oblivious to the gravity of the problem that just basic interface use poses to the fine motor skills and concentration of the majority of people and just how much attention and effort it takes to locate something on the map, click it accurately, then then press the right buttons and click accurately on the map again.
Why they don't grasp it? Because those kinds of problems disappeared for them years ago when they played computer games with the mouse and keyboard more than 10 hours a day. They never meet and play against anyone for whom just a basic worker split is a risky undetaking that can lead to a mining loss of 10 seconds and more for half his workers.
Most people that try starcraft quickly give up again because they see that just learning the basic motor skills to quickly and accurately click units and the minimap would probably take them several weeks of hard practice for hours every day. People that played console games their who life, and only ever used the computer to browse the web or write documents with 2 fingers: sitting them in front of a starcraft game is like sitting them in front of a church organ.
The title of strategy game is very decieving for starcraft. Because the most basic and important skillset is not strategic thinking, or thinking at all. Not even close. The legions of horrible horrible players with maphacks and complete information is a testament to that. The ability to press the buttons or pluck the strings of the instrument is more important for a performer than any understanding of musical theory.
Virtually all losses at that stage are the result of misclicks and miscontrols. Either by a single big one that got punished horrribly, or by the accumulative effect many small errors provide. Just the simple act of sending out a scout and looking at it when it sees something can fumble your general control so much that you get supply blocked hard. Just building a refinery or putting workers on gas takes enough time for someone to kill all your workers at the natural. Hell, just moving the screen on the minimap or finding the right control group and pressing it twice takes enough time for someone to kill all your workers.
There are brilliant professional writers and good office clerks that write a lot every day for decades and still type with only 2 fingers. That's not because they are stupid. They simply don't have the motor skills. And their motor skills didn't improve much despite them typing for several hours every day for decades. Proper typing training at a much earlier stage would have helped them of course. But those kinds of people would never become a more than average typist.
If you pit a decent piano player against a decent chess player in SC2, or a decent Guitar Hero player against a decent HOMM player, the piano and guitar hero player probably will win the majority of the first 100 games they play.
I got to diamond as zerg for a brief time, and I never really get past 30 APM. Worker rushes, 6pools, cannon rushes, 2-gates, bunker rushes, early reapers are probably still the strategies I struggle the most with. Defending those successfully is more stressful and draining to me than defending 20minutes of constant drops, because of the fast and precise micro needed and the big impact even small slipups have that early in the game.
Well, now, I switched to terran. Still dropped to silver again. Why? Because I'm someone for whom it takes a day of playing before my basic control is good enough to not lose several SCVs to silver level worker harass while my barracks is building. And then it takes another day or two before I don't get heavily supply blocked while not losing any SCVs early. And then I don't play for a few days, and then it again takes a day of playing before I can reliably execute a build in the first 4 minutes of the game again.
Edit: as if to prove my point: the amount of typos in this post was staggering. Not because I don't know how to write the words. But because I pressed the wrong keys. And I'm someone who types several hours every day professionally for years. When typing you can proof read and correct. In starcraft you just lose.
On February 20 2012 11:24 Kraidio wrote: These blogs make me hate myself. The way those players are is exactly how I was when I first played the game. It took me from February of 2011 to July of 2011 to get out of bronze, and I still lost to worker rushes/six pools in Silver. I didn't know what A-move was until someone showed and told me how to do it.
I don't understand, if you didn't know what A-move is, then how did you tell your army to attack??
Did you just MOVE them to a certain location and then wait for them to see some bad guys and go after them :D :D :D
The number of idiots in the world are astounding. It's sad because so many of them think you are trying to trick them or mind game them. We just don't trust one another anymore in this cruel Internet world.
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote: This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game a an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.
All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking ad selection.
etc.
This post actually makes a lot of sense. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't true in the majority of these cases - what we (as relatively seasoned gamers) perceive as a mental inaptness could probably very well be physical - for us using the mouse and keyboard in the fashions that we do has long become second nature. This is not the case for everyone though - there's bound to be people like that that managed to get their hands on a copy of SC2 as well.
As a bronze player this is both incredibly truthful and more inspiring than insulting. To be honest it's pretty easy to get complacent and feel like you're improving when you're not or that you're better than you are.
My first season I lost 70ish% of my games and I still netted 23 wins, mostly against players who didn't know how to wall or what an upgrade was. I opened every game with a poorly executed speedling expand, never got beyond 40ish drones on 2 ( sometimes 3) bases and never spread creep. I was garbage at the game, prone to panicking and accidentally re-rallying my hatchery to my opponent's base while scouting.
The next season I won more games pretty much simply due to the fact that I drone scouted better, held watch towers and occasionally sent an overseer out to see wtf my opponent was doing. I wasn't much better at the game then the season before but a simple thing like having more map vision meant I could prepare better. Fuck, my army was still all on one hotkey and I was fond of just massing roaches, broodlords and mutas then A moving to victory.
Little by little I've made minor improvements with better openings, army control, expand timings , composition etc. These little adjustments each tend to lead to win streaks that act as a confidence booster but fail to address the fact that just because I won didn't mean I played well. Scouting an incoming bio push and having lings and banes ready to kill it feels great and so some players may fail to look at the replay later and notice that their queen energy is high or that they never got that upgrade they intended to because they got distracted.
I've won 50 or so percent of the games I played for the last season and gotten sloppy and complacent. The other day I let my opponent's army sit unscouted between my natural and third for 2 damn minutes. Because I was sending regular overseer scouts out from the back of my base and keeping an eye on his expand timing and production facilities I felt safe even though I'd earlier forfeited the watchtower to him. Despite not knowing his army was there until rallying mutas flew over it I crushed through it and won because I had better upgrades and had been making the right counter units based on the scouting I did do. I felt great, I was a winner I was making progress ! I watched the replay right after and proceeded to feel like a complete idiot. Technically I deserved the win because I played better than he did but realistically I just played less terrible.
It's stuff like this that makes it so easy for people in bronze to feel entitled to wins. You get used to doing just enough right ( consciously or subconsciously) to win regularly and you start to feel like your opponents never deserve the wins they do get. You start to look for how they beat you, what trick they used, any excuse that means you didn't do something wrong. There are always going to be people in bronze who don't get it, who rage at every loss and who presumably will never leave that league because they can't or won't overcome bad habits and learn to play better.
On February 20 2012 11:24 Kraidio wrote: These blogs make me hate myself. The way those players are is exactly how I was when I first played the game. It took me from February of 2011 to July of 2011 to get out of bronze, and I still lost to worker rushes/six pools in Silver. I didn't know what A-move was until someone showed and told me how to do it.
I don't understand, if you didn't know what A-move is, then how did you tell your army to attack??
Did you just MOVE them to a certain location and then wait for them to see some bad guys and go after them :D :D :D
Individually target each unit?
I used to not know how to a-move in SCBW, so I would just select my units and right-click on the enemy units/buildings individually. Bear in mind that, well, I was in like ... 4th or 5th grade.
This blog is entertaining to say the least. Not making fun of new players, but those who refuse to learn. A little dose of reality check is always good for the soul. My favorite part is your latest attempt to tell them straight out how to counter it. For those who is willing to listen has shown to have less of bronzie mentality and likely to move on. gj on your experiment and excellent blog
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote: This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game a an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.
All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking ad selection.
etc.
This post actually makes a lot of sense. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't true in the majority of these cases - what we (as relatively seasoned gamers) perceive as a mental inaptness could probably very well be physical - for us using the mouse and keyboard in the fashions that we do has long become second nature. This is not the case for everyone though - there's bound to be people like that that managed to get their hands on a copy of SC2 as well.
Another indicator that the main difference between the different skill levels is not strategy and game understanding but basic button pressing is that I used the same builds and strategies that I used in bronze in diamond too, just as successful (or unsuccessful, if you like).
People use 4gates, 6pools, cannon rushes in all leagues on all servers. The difference is not that one 4gate or 6pool or cannon rush is smarter than the other. The difference is one of them can press the buttons faster and more precisely.
I have seen professional playes say the most oblivious, uninformed and stupid things on basic game mechanics and unit abilities of their own races. The reason those are up there is not because they are smarter and more knowledgeable, but because they can press buttons better.
On February 20 2012 11:24 Kraidio wrote: These blogs make me hate myself. The way those players are is exactly how I was when I first played the game. It took me from February of 2011 to July of 2011 to get out of bronze, and I still lost to worker rushes/six pools in Silver. I didn't know what A-move was until someone showed and told me how to do it.
I don't understand, if you didn't know what A-move is, then how did you tell your army to attack??
Did you just MOVE them to a certain location and then wait for them to see some bad guys and go after them :D :D :D
Individually target each unit?
I used to not know how to a-move in SCBW, so I would just select my units and right-click on the enemy units/buildings individually. Bear in mind that, well, I was in like ... 4th or 5th grade.
I dunno man, I played SC1 starting when I was in 5th grade and I figured out a lot of hotkeys and combos (such as shift + # to add to group, ctrl + # to create group, etc)....I actually read the command card though.
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote: This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game a an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.
All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking ad selection.
etc.
This post actually makes a lot of sense. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't true in the majority of these cases - what we (as relatively seasoned gamers) perceive as a mental inaptness could probably very well be physical - for us using the mouse and keyboard in the fashions that we do has long become second nature. This is not the case for everyone though - there's bound to be people like that that managed to get their hands on a copy of SC2 as well.
Another indicator that the main difference between the different skill levels is not strategy and game understanding but basic button pressing is that I used the same builds and strategies that I used in bronze in diamond too, just as successful (or unsuccessful, if you like).
People use 4gates, 6pools, cannon rushes in all leagues on all servers. The difference is not that one 4gate or 6pool or cannon rush is smarter than the other. The difference is one of them can press the buttons faster and more precisely.
I have seen professional playes say the most oblivious, uninformed and stupid things on basic game mechanics and unit abilities of their own races. The reason those are up there is not because they are smarter and more knowledgeable, but because they can press buttons better.
While your point has some merit - there's a reason that mechanics are drilled into every noob - mechanics alone don't mean everything. A GM's 4 gate doesn't show up 4 minutes earlier then a bronze's just because he clicks faster. What build you choose is almost as important as how you execute it.
On February 21 2012 04:32 Silv.user wrote: Idont get it, u make bronze league more crappy with BM cocky vs opponents. And you clearly dont belong in bronze.
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote: This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game a an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.
All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking ad selection.
etc.
This post actually makes a lot of sense. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't true in the majority of these cases - what we (as relatively seasoned gamers) perceive as a mental inaptness could probably very well be physical - for us using the mouse and keyboard in the fashions that we do has long become second nature. This is not the case for everyone though - there's bound to be people like that that managed to get their hands on a copy of SC2 as well.
Another indicator that the main difference between the different skill levels is not strategy and game understanding but basic button pressing is that I used the same builds and strategies that I used in bronze in diamond too, just as successful (or unsuccessful, if you like).
People use 4gates, 6pools, cannon rushes in all leagues on all servers. The difference is not that one 4gate or 6pool or cannon rush is smarter than the other. The difference is one of them can press the buttons faster and more precisely.
I have seen professional playes say the most oblivious, uninformed and stupid things on basic game mechanics and unit abilities of their own races. The reason those are up there is not because they are smarter and more knowledgeable, but because they can press buttons better.
While your point has some merit - there's a reason that mechanics are drilled into every noob - mechanics alone don't mean everything. A GM's 4 gate doesn't show up 4 minutes earlier then a bronze's just because he clicks faster. What build you choose is almost as important as how you execute it.
Sorry, gotta disagree here. When both players go gateway, assimilator, core, warpgate, all time differences are execution. There is no real room to rearrange or shift. And if you do, it always comes at some price and is a gamble. You can alleviate those risks by having good scouting and delaying your opponent: but both are things that require you to step up your mechanics several levels if you wanna do those and not fuck yourself over more than your opponent.
Now, I do agree that good strategy and smart risk taking can win you games. That's why my ZvZ was by far my best matchup depsite having dismal unit control and reaction times. I know I will never be able to consitently go above 30APM, simply because despite the thousands of games I played since the release, I only improved from about 15-20APM at the start to 30 in 2 weeks, and then was stuck there, no matter how much more I played and how much I tried. Not at my age. So eventually I started trying to find strategies that allow me to get away with this handicap most of the time.
Amazing, best one in the series yet. I like that you're actually trying to do something constructive with it now (educating the poor fools). Some (read most) of the reactions you've gotten are.... scary to say the least.
... Yeah, I can see how you can start to doubt humanity after this....
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote: This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game a an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.
All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking ad selection.
etc.
This post actually makes a lot of sense. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't true in the majority of these cases - what we (as relatively seasoned gamers) perceive as a mental inaptness could probably very well be physical - for us using the mouse and keyboard in the fashions that we do has long become second nature. This is not the case for everyone though - there's bound to be people like that that managed to get their hands on a copy of SC2 as well.
Another indicator that the main difference between the different skill levels is not strategy and game understanding but basic button pressing is that I used the same builds and strategies that I used in bronze in diamond too, just as successful (or unsuccessful, if you like).
People use 4gates, 6pools, cannon rushes in all leagues on all servers. The difference is not that one 4gate or 6pool or cannon rush is smarter than the other. The difference is one of them can press the buttons faster and more precisely.
I have seen professional playes say the most oblivious, uninformed and stupid things on basic game mechanics and unit abilities of their own races. The reason those are up there is not because they are smarter and more knowledgeable, but because they can press buttons better.
While your point has some merit - there's a reason that mechanics are drilled into every noob - mechanics alone don't mean everything. A GM's 4 gate doesn't show up 4 minutes earlier then a bronze's just because he clicks faster. What build you choose is almost as important as how you execute it.
Sorry, gotta disagree here. When both players go gateway, assimilator, core, warpgate, all time differences are execution. There is no real room to rearrange or shift. And if you do, it always comes at some price and is a gamble. You can alleviate those risks by having good scouting and delaying your opponent: but both are things that require you to step up your mechanics several levels if you wanna do those and not fuck yourself over more than your opponent.
Now, I do agree that good strategy and smart risk taking can win you games. That's why my ZvZ was by far my best matchup depsite having dismal unit control and reaction times. I know I will never be able to consitently go above 30APM, simply because despite the thousands of games I played since the release, I only improved from about 15-20APM at the start to 30 in 2 weeks, and then was stuck there, no matter how much more I played and how much I tried. Not at my age. So eventually I started trying to find strategies that allow me to get away with this handicap most of the time.
That's exactly most bronzes problem, they shouldn't rearrange or shift, but they do, probably without even realizing it. They don't properly choose OR execute a build, if they even have one in mind. And even if they have the proper 4 gate build, things like forgetting when to build/cut workers, forgetting to click warpgate, forgetting a forward pylon, none of these things require even average mechanics. I could execute a proper 4 gate with 15 apm, it just comes down to knowing when and where to place your attention.
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote: This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.
All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking and selection.
They build cannons for early defense because even badly placed cannons protect them several times better than any zealot controlled by them.
They don't scout because their control is so bad that they won't see anything before the unit dies.
They lose to worker rushes because selecting all workers and attack moving and focus firing requires a level of speed and precision that is inconcievable and unattainable for them. (I can't count the times when I tried to attack move my drones in response to a 6pool and instead attacked my hatch or pool with them).
This is the one thing better players just don't grasp. They are completely oblivious to the gravity of the problem that just basic interface use poses to the fine motor skills and concentration of the majority of people and just how much attention and effort it takes to locate something on the map, click it accurately, then then press the right buttons and click accurately on the map again.
Why they don't grasp it? Because those kinds of problems disappeared for them years ago when they played computer games with the mouse and keyboard more than 10 hours a day. They never meet and play against anyone for whom just a basic worker split is a risky undetaking that can lead to a mining loss of 10 seconds and more for half his workers.
Most people that try starcraft quickly give up again because they see that just learning the basic motor skills to quickly and accurately click units and the minimap would probably take them several weeks of hard practice for hours every day. People that played console games their who life, and only ever used the computer to browse the web or write documents with 2 fingers: sitting them in front of a starcraft game is like sitting them in front of a church organ.
The title of strategy game is very decieving for starcraft. Because the most basic and important skillset is not strategic thinking, or thinking at all. Not even close. The legions of horrible horrible players with maphacks and complete information is a testament to that. The ability to press the buttons or pluck the strings of the instrument is more important for a performer than any understanding of musical theory.
Virtually all losses at that stage are the result of misclicks and miscontrols. Either by a single big one that got punished horrribly, or by the accumulative effect many small errors provide. Just the simple act of sending out a scout and looking at it when it sees something can fumble your general control so much that you get supply blocked hard. Just building a refinery or putting workers on gas takes enough time for someone to kill all your workers at the natural. Hell, just moving the screen on the minimap or finding the right control group and pressing it twice takes enough time for someone to kill all your workers.
There are brilliant professional writers and good office clerks that write a lot every day for decades and still type with only 2 fingers. That's not because they are stupid. They simply don't have the motor skills. And their motor skills didn't improve much despite them typing for several hours every day for decades. Proper typing training at a much earlier stage would have helped them of course. But those kinds of people would never become a more than average typist.
If you pit a decent piano player against a decent chess player in SC2, or a decent Guitar Hero player against a decent HOMM player, the piano and guitar hero player probably will win the majority of the first 100 games they play.
I got to diamond as zerg for a brief time, and I never really get past 30 APM. Worker rushes, 6pools, cannon rushes, 2-gates, bunker rushes, early reapers are probably still the strategies I struggle the most with. Defending those successfully is more stressful and draining to me than defending 20minutes of constant drops, because of the fast and precise micro needed and the big impact even small slipups have that early in the game.
Well, now, I switched to terran. Still dropped to silver again. Why? Because I'm someone for whom it takes a day of playing before my basic control is good enough to not lose several SCVs to silver level worker harass while my barracks is building. And then it takes another day or two before I don't get heavily supply blocked while not losing any SCVs early. And then I don't play for a few days, and then it again takes a day of playing before I can reliably execute a build in the first 4 minutes of the game again.
Edit: as if to prove my point: the amount of typos in this post was staggering. Not because I don't know how to write the words. But because I pressed the wrong keys. And I'm someone who types several hours every day professionally for years. When typing you can proof read and correct. In starcraft you just lose.
This, a thousand times over.
I'm currently 30 years old and it took me 29 years to realise I've been playing RTS games in a stunted fashion for my whole life.
The basic macro game concepts such as build some kind of economy, build tech, build units, replace units that die were all present and I believe are there in all players who have a basic interest in playing the game. These are all simply tools and strategies that are available for a person to play with. It's the execution of the play that is the flaw.
My mind truely was truely blown by Starcraft 2. From my previous experiences with games like Age of Empires and Command and Conquer I understood that I needed hotkeys to keep my production flowing however I suddenly discovered that there was a whole other level to this type of game. Mutitasking, discovered by watching first person steams and vods of Starcraft 2.
I was playing around in a multitasking trainer map and I cannot truely describe the almost transcendent experience I felt the very first time I was moving my scout, monitoring constant probe production and then pressing 3-3BE to build a pylon back in base before hitting 1-1 to return to my scout to keep it moving, this all within the space of 1-2 seconds....!!?
Ureka! An entirely new dimension of RTS possibilities opened in my mind. It felt for a short while that all time had slowed down, maybe I was just thinking faster, remembering more. The timeline bars on the UI seemed to slow to a crawl. Each probe felt like 34 seconds build time. My macro and micro were still so sloppy but all this extra thinking time allowed me to shift focus to those things.
I hope that other people have at some point in their gaming life felt this moment. I would encourage anyone to work on their controls to get this feeling. When playing an RTS is no longer a single mouse click sim city turtle experience and you start to feel the deep level of control that is available to you. Go explore that fog of war it's yours for the taking.
I wonder how slowly progress bars move in the mind of a 400APM GSL champion.
TLDR: Learn how to control hotkeys, keyboard, mouse and UI fast and accurate. It will open a new dimension on your understanding of whats possible in an RTS.
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote: This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game a an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.
All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking ad selection.
etc.
This post actually makes a lot of sense. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't true in the majority of these cases - what we (as relatively seasoned gamers) perceive as a mental inaptness could probably very well be physical - for us using the mouse and keyboard in the fashions that we do has long become second nature. This is not the case for everyone though - there's bound to be people like that that managed to get their hands on a copy of SC2 as well.
Another indicator that the main difference between the different skill levels is not strategy and game understanding but basic button pressing is that I used the same builds and strategies that I used in bronze in diamond too, just as successful (or unsuccessful, if you like).
People use 4gates, 6pools, cannon rushes in all leagues on all servers. The difference is not that one 4gate or 6pool or cannon rush is smarter than the other. The difference is one of them can press the buttons faster and more precisely.
I have seen professional playes say the most oblivious, uninformed and stupid things on basic game mechanics and unit abilities of their own races. The reason those are up there is not because they are smarter and more knowledgeable, but because they can press buttons better.
While your point has some merit - there's a reason that mechanics are drilled into every noob - mechanics alone don't mean everything. A GM's 4 gate doesn't show up 4 minutes earlier then a bronze's just because he clicks faster. What build you choose is almost as important as how you execute it.
Sorry, gotta disagree here. When both players go gateway, assimilator, core, warpgate, all time differences are execution. There is no real room to rearrange or shift. And if you do, it always comes at some price and is a gamble. You can alleviate those risks by having good scouting and delaying your opponent: but both are things that require you to step up your mechanics several levels if you wanna do those and not fuck yourself over more than your opponent.
Now, I do agree that good strategy and smart risk taking can win you games. That's why my ZvZ was by far my best matchup depsite having dismal unit control and reaction times. I know I will never be able to consitently go above 30APM, simply because despite the thousands of games I played since the release, I only improved from about 15-20APM at the start to 30 in 2 weeks, and then was stuck there, no matter how much more I played and how much I tried. Not at my age. So eventually I started trying to find strategies that allow me to get away with this handicap most of the time.
That's exactly most bronzes problem, they shouldn't rearrange or shift, but they do, probably without even realizing it. They don't properly choose OR execute a build, if they even have one in mind. And even if they have the proper 4 gate build, things like forgetting when to build/cut workers, forgetting to click warpgate, forgetting a forward pylon, none of these things require even average mechanics. I could execute a proper 4 gate with 15 apm, it just comes down to knowing when and where to place your attention.
Sorry, it's not just know whem and where to place your attention. It's actually being able to shift that attention. The simplest worker harrass or just the pressence of a worker can completely fuck any one over who has to dedicate most of his consciousness to just selecting a worker at the right time. There is a reason cheese is so comon in the lower leagues: even if it was dismally executed and doesn't even kill much, it derails anyone with bad mechanics to a degreee they can't really recover from. Getting cannon rushed at that level means choosing between dying because the cannons get up or dying because you forgot to make an overlord or your queen or the pool or ling speed, simply because you are not able to take care of all this at the same time, because each of those takes you ages. There was a time when I consciously let my first scouting SCV die a lot of games because I simply couldn't look at it, save it and build my 3rd depot in time. Or how often I lost because I accidently made a drone too much, pressing the wrong key and my pool was too late because of it. Making an evo chamber instead of a pool happened a few times too. In an environment where more than 60% of the players cheese you within the first 5 minutes, any one of those little control errors can cost you a game immediately. And every low level player makes several of those every minute.
Not because they don't know better. Most of them have read forums, watched games and know build orders. A lot of them go even around asking on forums before they ever touch the game in multiplayer. You see several of those posts every day if you look. They just can't do it properly. To you it is trivial to make depots and scvs on time- you don't even think about it. To a bad player this is already too high level. They struggle already with selecting an SCV. They struggle already with sendign an SCV to a proper building place. They struggle already hitting build and build depot button. Or they use the mouse for it and take several seconds just to find the right icon. They can't worry much about hitting SCV and depot timings, because they have to worry about hitting keys.
Interesting read on the lowest of the low in bronze. Next blog you do though id like for you to find out how they know what glhf and gg means if they dont know about the pro scene and the community surrounding it.
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote: This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game a an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.
All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking ad selection.
etc.
This post actually makes a lot of sense. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't true in the majority of these cases - what we (as relatively seasoned gamers) perceive as a mental inaptness could probably very well be physical - for us using the mouse and keyboard in the fashions that we do has long become second nature. This is not the case for everyone though - there's bound to be people like that that managed to get their hands on a copy of SC2 as well.
Another indicator that the main difference between the different skill levels is not strategy and game understanding but basic button pressing is that I used the same builds and strategies that I used in bronze in diamond too, just as successful (or unsuccessful, if you like).
People use 4gates, 6pools, cannon rushes in all leagues on all servers. The difference is not that one 4gate or 6pool or cannon rush is smarter than the other. The difference is one of them can press the buttons faster and more precisely.
I have seen professional playes say the most oblivious, uninformed and stupid things on basic game mechanics and unit abilities of their own races. The reason those are up there is not because they are smarter and more knowledgeable, but because they can press buttons better.
While your point has some merit - there's a reason that mechanics are drilled into every noob - mechanics alone don't mean everything. A GM's 4 gate doesn't show up 4 minutes earlier then a bronze's just because he clicks faster. What build you choose is almost as important as how you execute it.
Sorry, gotta disagree here. When both players go gateway, assimilator, core, warpgate, all time differences are execution. There is no real room to rearrange or shift. And if you do, it always comes at some price and is a gamble. You can alleviate those risks by having good scouting and delaying your opponent: but both are things that require you to step up your mechanics several levels if you wanna do those and not fuck yourself over more than your opponent.
Now, I do agree that good strategy and smart risk taking can win you games. That's why my ZvZ was by far my best matchup depsite having dismal unit control and reaction times. I know I will never be able to consitently go above 30APM, simply because despite the thousands of games I played since the release, I only improved from about 15-20APM at the start to 30 in 2 weeks, and then was stuck there, no matter how much more I played and how much I tried. Not at my age. So eventually I started trying to find strategies that allow me to get away with this handicap most of the time.
That's exactly most bronzes problem, they shouldn't rearrange or shift, but they do, probably without even realizing it. They don't properly choose OR execute a build, if they even have one in mind. And even if they have the proper 4 gate build, things like forgetting when to build/cut workers, forgetting to click warpgate, forgetting a forward pylon, none of these things require even average mechanics. I could execute a proper 4 gate with 15 apm, it just comes down to knowing when and where to place your attention.
Sorry, it's not just know whem and where to place your attention. It's actually being able to shift that attention. The simplest worker harrass or just the pressence of a worker can completely fuck any one over who has to dedicate most of his consciousness to just selecting a worker at the right time. There is a reason cheese is so comon in the lower leagues: even if it was dismally executed and doesn't even kill much, it derails anyone with bad mechanics to a degreee they can't really recover from. Getting cannon rushed at that level means choosing between dying because the cannons get up or dying because you forgot to make an overlord or your queen or the pool or ling speed, simply because you are not able to take care of all this at the same time, because each of those takes you ages. There was a time when I consciously let my first scouting SCV die a lot of games because I simply couldn't look at it, save it and build my 3rd depot in time. Or how often I lost because I accidently made a drone too much, pressing the wrong key and my pool was too late because of it. Making an evo chamber instead of a pool happened a few times too. In an environment where more than 60% of the players cheese you within the first 5 minutes, any one of those little control errors can cost you a game immediately. And every low level player makes several of those every minute.
Not because they don't know better. Most of them have read forums, watched games and know build orders. A lot of them go even around asking on forums before they ever touch the game in multiplayer. You see several of those posts every day if you look. They just can't do it properly. To you it is trivial to make depots and scvs on time- you don't even think about it. To a bad player this is already too high level. They struggle already with selecting an SCV. They struggle already with sendign an SCV to a proper building place. They struggle already hitting build and build depot button. Or they use the mouse for it and take several seconds just to find the right icon. They can't worry much about hitting SCV and depot timings, because they have to worry about hitting keys.
If they struggle just to select an scv and move it one place to another, then I question how they get anything done in life at all without having their hand held the entire time.
I say this because I was one of the bronze noobs. I started off in the beta with no previous rts experience. Over about 6 months I learned what was necessary to get me to borderline masters. I did this with about 60 apm. I see no reason why any normal human being can't do the same. Learn for your mistakes, develop a little bit of muscle memory, and learn to multitask a bit.
It's one thing to be losing to this kind of stuff your first few weeks, but after a while you should adapt. If you're still losing to bronze players doing horrible builds after hundreds of games, well, I think you need to take a hard look in the mirror because you either don't care enough to learn, or you have some other handicap that should probably be addressed. And I find it hard to believe that all these bronze players are handicapped.
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote: This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game a an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.
All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking ad selection.
etc.
This post actually makes a lot of sense. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't true in the majority of these cases - what we (as relatively seasoned gamers) perceive as a mental inaptness could probably very well be physical - for us using the mouse and keyboard in the fashions that we do has long become second nature. This is not the case for everyone though - there's bound to be people like that that managed to get their hands on a copy of SC2 as well.
Another indicator that the main difference between the different skill levels is not strategy and game understanding but basic button pressing is that I used the same builds and strategies that I used in bronze in diamond too, just as successful (or unsuccessful, if you like).
People use 4gates, 6pools, cannon rushes in all leagues on all servers. The difference is not that one 4gate or 6pool or cannon rush is smarter than the other. The difference is one of them can press the buttons faster and more precisely.
I have seen professional playes say the most oblivious, uninformed and stupid things on basic game mechanics and unit abilities of their own races. The reason those are up there is not because they are smarter and more knowledgeable, but because they can press buttons better.
While your point has some merit - there's a reason that mechanics are drilled into every noob - mechanics alone don't mean everything. A GM's 4 gate doesn't show up 4 minutes earlier then a bronze's just because he clicks faster. What build you choose is almost as important as how you execute it.
Sorry, gotta disagree here. When both players go gateway, assimilator, core, warpgate, all time differences are execution. There is no real room to rearrange or shift. And if you do, it always comes at some price and is a gamble. You can alleviate those risks by having good scouting and delaying your opponent: but both are things that require you to step up your mechanics several levels if you wanna do those and not fuck yourself over more than your opponent.
Now, I do agree that good strategy and smart risk taking can win you games. That's why my ZvZ was by far my best matchup depsite having dismal unit control and reaction times. I know I will never be able to consitently go above 30APM, simply because despite the thousands of games I played since the release, I only improved from about 15-20APM at the start to 30 in 2 weeks, and then was stuck there, no matter how much more I played and how much I tried. Not at my age. So eventually I started trying to find strategies that allow me to get away with this handicap most of the time.
That's exactly most bronzes problem, they shouldn't rearrange or shift, but they do, probably without even realizing it. They don't properly choose OR execute a build, if they even have one in mind. And even if they have the proper 4 gate build, things like forgetting when to build/cut workers, forgetting to click warpgate, forgetting a forward pylon, none of these things require even average mechanics. I could execute a proper 4 gate with 15 apm, it just comes down to knowing when and where to place your attention.
Sorry, it's not just know whem and where to place your attention. It's actually being able to shift that attention. The simplest worker harrass or just the pressence of a worker can completely fuck any one over who has to dedicate most of his consciousness to just selecting a worker at the right time. There is a reason cheese is so comon in the lower leagues: even if it was dismally executed and doesn't even kill much, it derails anyone with bad mechanics to a degreee they can't really recover from. Getting cannon rushed at that level means choosing between dying because the cannons get up or dying because you forgot to make an overlord or your queen or the pool or ling speed, simply because you are not able to take care of all this at the same time, because each of those takes you ages. There was a time when I consciously let my first scouting SCV die a lot of games because I simply couldn't look at it, save it and build my 3rd depot in time. Or how often I lost because I accidently made a drone too much, pressing the wrong key and my pool was too late because of it. Making an evo chamber instead of a pool happened a few times too. In an environment where more than 60% of the players cheese you within the first 5 minutes, any one of those little control errors can cost you a game immediately. And every low level player makes several of those every minute.
Not because they don't know better. Most of them have read forums, watched games and know build orders. A lot of them go even around asking on forums before they ever touch the game in multiplayer. You see several of those posts every day if you look. They just can't do it properly. To you it is trivial to make depots and scvs on time- you don't even think about it. To a bad player this is already too high level. They struggle already with selecting an SCV. They struggle already with sendign an SCV to a proper building place. They struggle already hitting build and build depot button. Or they use the mouse for it and take several seconds just to find the right icon. They can't worry much about hitting SCV and depot timings, because they have to worry about hitting keys.
If they struggle just to select an scv and move it one place to another, then I question how they get anything done in life at all without having their hand held the entire time.
I say this because I was one of the bronze noobs. I started off in the beta with no previous rts experience. Over about 6 months I learned what was necessary to get me to borderline masters. I did this with about 60 apm. I see no reason why any normal human being can't do the same. Learn for your mistakes, develop a little bit of muscle memory, and learn to multitask a bit.
It's one thing to be losing to this kind of stuff your first few weeks, but after a while you should adapt. If you're still losing to bronze players doing horrible builds after hundreds of games, well, I think you need to take a hard look in the mirror because you either don't care enough to learn, or you have some other handicap that should probably be addressed. And I find it hard to believe that all these bronze players are handicapped.
Well, of course not everyone cares enough to play several hours a day over weeks and months. Doesn't mean they don't enjoy the game. When it comes to the total population the ones that actually bother to try SC2 ladder are probably already in the upper third of basic computer control skills. You played intensively over several months and got better. Not everyon wants or can play that much. And the thing that will lag behind the most from that is basic control and mechanics.
People have different talents. Idra was immersed in Korea for years, took lessons, and his Korean is still not very good as far as I know. I don't call him stupid or handicapped because of that. Most people never are able to learn languages properly if they don't learn it as children. Your whole wiring for hearing and the tongue and larynx muscles is set. Similar for music instruments, most sports and any activity that requires some kind of unusual motor control: if you don't acquire the abiltiy as a child, you will have a very very hard time as an adult and a lot are never able to.
I touched my first computer when I was 13. And the first time that I had actually access to a computer on a regular basis I was 16 (imagine how old I am!). I became a good programmer and developer. But just basic typing is still something I can't really do reliably and without errors. Luckily the bottleneck for my job is analysis and thinking and not typing, because you can automate and write your own tools and automatically check and test. And using your time to do that is more productive and beneficial than practicing to type faster and better and get better at manual repetitive tasks yourself. That's what computers are for. Using macros in starcraft is cheating. I still enjoy the game. I just had to accept that in this environment I cannot really use my strengths to compensate for my weaknesses and I'll never be really good because of that handicap.
I used to be bronze but i improved to gold slowly because at first i blamed everything on my opponents being cheesy and not me changing my macro to be better, its about realizing you are bad and improving from it, i improved slowly cuz i can't play too too many games a week, but still steadily improved. I guess what creates the cognitive dissonance, is that Blizzard has created an environment where we do not associate actual play level to league. Since it doesn't show losses, since it doesn't show your relation to the other leagues and since B.Net focuses on playing the story line and getting points and pics rather than being better.
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote: This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game a an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.
All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking ad selection.
etc.
This post actually makes a lot of sense. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't true in the majority of these cases - what we (as relatively seasoned gamers) perceive as a mental inaptness could probably very well be physical - for us using the mouse and keyboard in the fashions that we do has long become second nature. This is not the case for everyone though - there's bound to be people like that that managed to get their hands on a copy of SC2 as well.
Another indicator that the main difference between the different skill levels is not strategy and game understanding but basic button pressing is that I used the same builds and strategies that I used in bronze in diamond too, just as successful (or unsuccessful, if you like).
People use 4gates, 6pools, cannon rushes in all leagues on all servers. The difference is not that one 4gate or 6pool or cannon rush is smarter than the other. The difference is one of them can press the buttons faster and more precisely.
I have seen professional playes say the most oblivious, uninformed and stupid things on basic game mechanics and unit abilities of their own races. The reason those are up there is not because they are smarter and more knowledgeable, but because they can press buttons better.
While your point has some merit - there's a reason that mechanics are drilled into every noob - mechanics alone don't mean everything. A GM's 4 gate doesn't show up 4 minutes earlier then a bronze's just because he clicks faster. What build you choose is almost as important as how you execute it.
Sorry, gotta disagree here. When both players go gateway, assimilator, core, warpgate, all time differences are execution. There is no real room to rearrange or shift. And if you do, it always comes at some price and is a gamble. You can alleviate those risks by having good scouting and delaying your opponent: but both are things that require you to step up your mechanics several levels if you wanna do those and not fuck yourself over more than your opponent.
Now, I do agree that good strategy and smart risk taking can win you games. That's why my ZvZ was by far my best matchup depsite having dismal unit control and reaction times. I know I will never be able to consitently go above 30APM, simply because despite the thousands of games I played since the release, I only improved from about 15-20APM at the start to 30 in 2 weeks, and then was stuck there, no matter how much more I played and how much I tried. Not at my age. So eventually I started trying to find strategies that allow me to get away with this handicap most of the time.
That's exactly most bronzes problem, they shouldn't rearrange or shift, but they do, probably without even realizing it. They don't properly choose OR execute a build, if they even have one in mind. And even if they have the proper 4 gate build, things like forgetting when to build/cut workers, forgetting to click warpgate, forgetting a forward pylon, none of these things require even average mechanics. I could execute a proper 4 gate with 15 apm, it just comes down to knowing when and where to place your attention.
Sorry, it's not just know whem and where to place your attention. It's actually being able to shift that attention. The simplest worker harrass or just the pressence of a worker can completely fuck any one over who has to dedicate most of his consciousness to just selecting a worker at the right time. There is a reason cheese is so comon in the lower leagues: even if it was dismally executed and doesn't even kill much, it derails anyone with bad mechanics to a degreee they can't really recover from. Getting cannon rushed at that level means choosing between dying because the cannons get up or dying because you forgot to make an overlord or your queen or the pool or ling speed, simply because you are not able to take care of all this at the same time, because each of those takes you ages. There was a time when I consciously let my first scouting SCV die a lot of games because I simply couldn't look at it, save it and build my 3rd depot in time. Or how often I lost because I accidently made a drone too much, pressing the wrong key and my pool was too late because of it. Making an evo chamber instead of a pool happened a few times too. In an environment where more than 60% of the players cheese you within the first 5 minutes, any one of those little control errors can cost you a game immediately. And every low level player makes several of those every minute.
Not because they don't know better. Most of them have read forums, watched games and know build orders. A lot of them go even around asking on forums before they ever touch the game in multiplayer. You see several of those posts every day if you look. They just can't do it properly. To you it is trivial to make depots and scvs on time- you don't even think about it. To a bad player this is already too high level. They struggle already with selecting an SCV. They struggle already with sendign an SCV to a proper building place. They struggle already hitting build and build depot button. Or they use the mouse for it and take several seconds just to find the right icon. They can't worry much about hitting SCV and depot timings, because they have to worry about hitting keys.
If they struggle just to select an scv and move it one place to another, then I question how they get anything done in life at all without having their hand held the entire time.
I say this because I was one of the bronze noobs. I started off in the beta with no previous rts experience. Over about 6 months I learned what was necessary to get me to borderline masters. I did this with about 60 apm. I see no reason why any normal human being can't do the same. Learn for your mistakes, develop a little bit of muscle memory, and learn to multitask a bit.
It's one thing to be losing to this kind of stuff your first few weeks, but after a while you should adapt. If you're still losing to bronze players doing horrible builds after hundreds of games, well, I think you need to take a hard look in the mirror because you either don't care enough to learn, or you have some other handicap that should probably be addressed. And I find it hard to believe that all these bronze players are handicapped.
Well, of course not everyone cares enough to play several hours a day over weeks and months. Doesn't mean they don't enjoy the game. When it comes to the total population the ones that actually bother to try SC2 ladder are probably already in the upper third of basic computer control skills. You played intensively over several months and got better. Not everyon wants or can play that much. And the thing that will lag behind the most from that is basic control and mechanics.
People have different talents. Idra was immersed in Korea for years, took lessons, and his Korean is still not very good as far as I know. I don't call him stupid or handicapped because of that. Most people never are able to learn languages properly if they don't learn it as children. Your whole wiring for hearing and the tongue and larynx muscles is set. Similar for music instruments, most sports and any activity that requires some kind of unusual motor control: if you don't acquire the abiltiy as a child, you will have a very very hard time as an adult and a lot are never able to.
I touched my first computer when I was 13. And the first time that I had actually access to a computer on a regular basis I was 16 (imagine how old I am!). I became a good programmer and developer. But just basic typing is still something I can't really do reliably and without errors. Luckily the bottleneck for my job is analysis and thinking and not typing, because you can automate and write your own tools and automatically check and test. And using your time to do that is more productive and beneficial than practicing to type faster and better and get better at manual repetitive tasks yourself. That's what computers are for. Using macros in starcraft is cheating. I still enjoy the game. I just had to accept that in this environment I cannot really use my strengths to compensate for my weaknesses and I'll never be really good because of that handicap.
I don't really disagree with any of that. I just don't think it takes any special training to be able to adequately select your units and click hotkeys. It's not like we're talking about moving your army while doing drops and macroing back home; just boxing your workers and a-clicking. But I guess we disagree there.
I don't really disagree with any of that. I just don't think it takes any special training to be able to adequately select your units and click hotkeys. It's not like we're talking about moving your army while doing drops and macroing back home; just boxing your workers and a-clicking - but I guess we disagree there.
Yes, just simple attack-moving is a string of actions that I horribly screwed up so many times I don't really wanna say, and took me longer to do than typing the word now. It can go wrong when selecting, if by dragging or hotkey (using hotkeys without looking at the keyboard is a whole different problem that even predates that). It can go wrong while pressing 'a', which can result in having to cancel, where the cancel in return can result in pressing ctrl-ESC, which means you leave the game. If you actually select and press a properly, then there is the difficulty of not clicking on anything that belongs to you. Those are the main troubles I had when i started playing. For weeks and months. And still occasionally today. And it is/was even worse for most other beginning players I imagine.
And that is even before any multitasking on multiple places on the map comes into play, yes.
Ehh... I think it's an invalid assumption that everyone that plays the game does so to improve. I know when I first started playing SC1, the only thing I cared about was watching huge ass battles unfold. My intent was more along the lines of setting up some kind of elaborate combat scenario to then pit against my opponent elaborate combat scenario and only *then* duke it out to the bitter end. I was incredibly naive to think that other people played the game for any other reason. Hence I would have outbursts of rage against anyone I ran across that tried to "cheapen" the experience by attacking or harassing for a quick win.
Part of me still still gets irked by any kind of early pressure, because even though I've somewhat matured in my outlook on the game, I still don't play matches "just to win". Win or lose, if I don't have (what I find to be) fun in the process then it's a waste of my time. As a result, I most often play coop games with like-minded friends.
Full disclosure: in SC2 I've only played a very small number of ladder games, and the highest I ranked was Gold.
I don't think you accurately described cognitive dissonance, but otherwise a really great blog. I think you described bigotry or hmmm...just a delusional dissonance (seeing contrary evidence but still believing something else). Cognitive dissonance is when you know something that is bad for you (dissonance) and your cognition (mental feelings toward that dissonance) feels as though you can keep doing it. IE a smoker that continues smoking despite knowing that smoking will kill them. What level of dissonance towards smoking will change your cognition to the point that you actually change your behaviour?
On February 21 2012 04:32 Silv.user wrote: Idont get it, u make bronze league more crappy with BM cocky vs opponents. And you clearly dont belong in bronze.
I'dont get it, your an jerk and people applaud?
Check out the following definitions:
Satire Comedy Social Experiments
Thanks
I'dont see the fun in people who has the guts trying to get better, most bronze players is people who never ever played this game before most never watched a replay whatsoever. Hurting the community by acting like a prick nothx, if u wanto be useful pm them aftergame with some decent advice.
your blog is amazing, I don't even know what else can I say. Very well written, very good layout and organised. I don't know what can you do to actually lose anymore lol
On February 21 2012 04:32 Silv.user wrote: Idont get it, u make bronze league more crappy with BM cocky vs opponents. And you clearly dont belong in bronze.
I'dont get it, your an jerk and people applaud?
Check out the following definitions:
Satire Comedy Social Experiments
Thanks
I'dont see the fun in people who has the guts trying to get better, most bronze players is people who never ever played this game before most never watched a replay whatsoever. Hurting the community by acting like a prick nothx, if u wanto be useful pm them aftergame with some decent advice.
This has been posted thousands of times in Gheed's blogs but i will try again: the poeple he's making fun of aren't the new players that are just going through their placement matches, they are the forever bronze players that after hundreds of games they still can't defend a worker rush because their pf isn't done in time.
Oh wow. Another great blog, as usual, but it really does make me fear for humanity! : (
I really don't understand why some have such trouble learning. I'd hope that even on your own, after many hundred games you'd be able to reflect and come up with even basic improvement. : /
I understand that this is jus satire, but what is wrong with the people who "fear for humanity" when they learn about the Bronzies? I mean, its a fucking game. I'm sure none of them are retarded IRL.
On February 22 2012 07:08 Azera wrote: I understand that this is jus satire, but what is wrong with the people who "fear for humanity" when they learn about the Bronzies? I mean, its a fucking game. I'm sure none of them are retarded IRL.
I'm sure more often than not a sign of their poor basic problem solving skills can be seen in other things they do as well.
5/5 Gheed for the win. I love reading this kind of stuff, makes me want to get another acct and put it in bronze for some troll fun. Especially enjoyed the part where you went mass planetary/turret and alt-tabbed for a hour and a half.
( Note: Before I hear "too long, didn't read", I have a lot to say regarding this blog, how it made me think, and what to think about for future writings. Also, if you take the time to write hours of text and research, I feel I best respect it by taking the time to compliment it. Also, if you're going to quote this, please use a spoiler tag to reduce the wall of text.)
I have a lot to say, as I absolutely love this series you've written. It has some of my favorite reads in months, and I re-read them when I so desire. Your delving and analysis of the Bronze league is so interesting, for reasons I really don't understand. Perhaps the mindset of the StarCraft-impared is just so radically different than I know that it just reads like the chronicling of how aliens play SC2.
It's so wonderfully foreign, so mindless yet so conscious, that your articles are almost fiction. But, what makes me read is the knowledge that, regardless of how much it contrasts how I think in SC2, they are minds of the same species as me.
They are HUMAN. They are no smarter and no dumber than I in the real world. They clearly understand the world around me (or at the very least, they understand: The Internet, how to use a computer, how to use a mouse and keyboard, how to set up a SC2 Quick Match enough to "qualify" for bronze, and how to keep their human body alive long enough to do all these things).
Sure, you get the occasional game against a bot, or a player who's just down on their luck, or even someone who is using a smurf account to troll around. But ultimately, this league is more unpredictable than Korean Grandmaster because of how their minds work (or don't). This kind of analysis turns this series of articles from a blog about basically trolling the Bronze League, to a series of research pieces of the psychology of lower-level thinking, something I'd read on Ars Technica or something. That is what makes me love it.
This does leave all sorts of questions to you, and to us, that I hope you'll look into in future articles. • Why do they think like this? • Does our exposure to pro-gamer play and analysis really change how different we think than this, if not RTS knowledge in general? • What of the Bronze league of StarCraft's motherland? Do bronzies in South Korea act at all like this, or is it another world altogether? • Clearly you can teach some of them, but how do you teach the "Forever Bronze"? • You mentioned Bnet 2.0 as a source of false optimism, if Bnet changed to enforce negativity towards the worst league really get them to want to improve? Or would they want to quit the game altogether and move on to something they're better at? • What else can be done to help, mandatory bot practice if one's MMR is low enough?
Ugh, I think that's plenty of questions concerning a league so low. I really look forward to you continuing this series and wish you the best, I'll be promoting these articles as best I can to others.
good lord... you tell them its coming and exactly what to do in response and they still can't do it.... are these like sub 90IQ droolers or something? I'm pretty sure my grand-parents could stop a worker rush and they don't know how to use a computer like at all. Amazing...
First off: Kudos to imbecile, Moggles, and Xatalos for humanizing a faceless minority amidst 21 pages of scornful comments.
On February 21 2012 03:55 ladyumbra wrote: As a bronze player this is both incredibly truthful and more inspiring than insulting.
I mostly just find it insulting (OK - entertaining and insulting).
I am a low Bronze player. (Whew! It feels so good to get that off my chest.) I'm always a bit bemused by people with experience forgetting what it was like to be inexperienced. Parents forget what it was like to be a teenager and they think their kids are crazy, [poor] teachers do it with their students and think they're stupid. And apparently experienced gamers do it with unskilled gamers and think they're deliberately obtuse. At least human nature is consistent... It couldn't possibly be that hard stuff is hard, especially when you're provided with (at best) no instruction or (at worst) poor instruction.
I can feel a long-winded post coming on, so I'll just limit myself to 3 points: 1) What a Bronze player knows before playing his first ladder game 2) Who Bronze players are 3) What a Bronze player learns from playing in Bronze
1) What a Bronze player knows before playing his first ladder game They know one thing (at best) - the Campaign. And how do you succeed in campaigns? You turtle, tech up, and make one big push. Let's say they don't take too long finishing the campaign - they have about 12 hours of that play style drilled into their brains, and it was their formative learning experience. Oh wait, they know one more thing - the mechanics of playing Terran (and very fundamental mechanics of playing Protoss). Where does that leave someone (like me) who wants to play Zerg or Protoss? It leaves them with a steep learning curve. Try learning mid- & late-game tech through trial-and-error in a system where the average game lasts 10 minutes (if you're lucky). In short, before they even start their placement matches, Bronze players are programmed to fail. Especially when you consider the shark tank that they're thrown into...
2) Who Bronze players are From what I've seen (which is, granted, only about 50 league games in Bronze), this looks to be the makeup of Bronze league: ---Group A) New/unskilled player wanting to get better (40%): I'd like to think I'm in this group. What these Bronze players have learned (from reading forums & watching Dailies) is that they need to improve their fundamentals. Unfortunately, Battle.net doesn't reward this - this kind of fundamentals training has a long-term payoff, but is very discouraging in the short-term (as it requires a whole lot of losing until they overcome whatever competence plateau they're currently struggling with). ---Group B) New/unskilled player wanting to win/have a good time (40%): This is the group that may or may not have started out in group (a), but has since gone over to the Dark Side. They've learned that Battle.net rewards wins and doesn't especially care how they're gotten, so they resort to gimmicks. They've also learned that most people in Bronze (much of Groups A & C) haven't learned their gimmick & its counter yet. So, like hail balls, people in Group B win & rise to silver, then get smacked back down to bronze by people who have invested in fundamentals. They then gimmick their way to silver, and so on, getting thicker and thicker and heavier and heavier with each cycle (yay for meteorological metaphors!) ---Group C) Casual gamers (15%): God bless them. Nobody gives them enough credit; they're subsidizing our hobby. ---and apparently there's a Group D: Higher-league trolls (5%): unless they're actively coaching, they're not really helping. (No, 'hard knocks' lessons don't really help Bronze-leaguers. More on that later.) These folks might as well be playing Quake with God mode codes on - whatever floats your boat, I guess.
3) What a Bronze player learns from playing in Bronze Why, they learn to play like a Bronze player, of course! When a brand new player is first relegated to Bronze, it's a death sentence for skill growth. When all they see is turtling, 6-pools, banshee rushes, reaper harrass, and mass void rays/stalkers, that becomes all that they know. And Battle.net [temporarily] rewards them for joining the pack.
If they wise up and start scouring the internets for advice, it's usually only tangentially helpful. "You can get to platinum by doing nothing other than improving your macro." "All you have to do is improve your late-game." "Yeah, scouting really helps." Advice like this is applicable, but too general to execute on. And advice that is specific is rarely applicable. Build orders help your early game tremendously, but at 5 minutes you're as lost as you were before you mastered the build order committed to a build order. This is why real-time mentoring is so important. Unfortunately, it's also rare.
The way people best gain skill in any game (hell, the way we all best learn any life skill) is by playing with & learning from better players. That's why mentor systems are everywhere. But how many Bronze players actually have an IRL/real-time mentor? I sure as hell don't. I have Day[9], a haystack of streams from which to produce a needle that can teach me what I need to learn right now, and my own replays.
You know what else I don't have ? Time. I have 2 hours a night (if I'm lucky) to dedicate to my hobbies. (Incidentally, a 14-hour a week hobby is considered a bit excessive by society at large.) That's two hours in which to: - ladder - watch my replays - analyze my replays for the one or two things to work on - watch Day[9] Dailies - watch streams (assuming I've found ones that are useful to a Bronze Zerg player of my skill & knowledge of the metagame... good luck with that one) - watch tournaments (which take place every weekend, apparently) - listen to SotG - research build orders, counters, and mid-/late-game strats (each it's own haystack) - etc. And if I don't do all of that (& immediately program it into muscle memory), then I'm somehow accessory to peoples' loss of faith in humanity? At least it's reciprocated, I guess.
"But how can you play so much and not learn from your mistakes. These people have played over 100 games - they're not new anymore." *snort* Seriously, try to remember what it's like to be new at something. Step 1 is learning how to learn; even the ability to watch a replay and deduce what your "1 mistake" was is a hard-won skill. That skill alone would take 50 replay-watches to hone, and we haven't even fixed any mistakes yet!
"Still, if they've played 100 games, how thick do they have to be to keep falling to the same all-ins over and over?" Let's do some quick math, shall we? 100 games x 50% win rate (if Battle.net is doing its job) = 50 losses -30 games that reach mid- or late-game (when you're lucky enough to be paired with a like-minded Group A-er) = 20 losses in early game (judging from my experience with all-ins & 'cheese') / 9 types early game counters to learn (assuming that, per race, there are only 2 cheeses & 1 common all-in that a Bronze player could reasonably execute. Which, let's be honest, is a laughably low estimate.) = 2.22.. instances of losing to any one strategy
I ask you, can you honestly say that you'd be able to scout, recognize, prepare, and effectively execute a counter on something that's only happened to you twice?
TL;DR - Back the eff off! SC2 is great because it's infinitely challenging, but that means it has a steep learning curve. Why not be a solution instead of contributing to the problem? Skills gaps grow like any other gap (wealth, education, whatever) - when the haves have a choice to share with the have-nots and choose something else instead.
This last page is full of people that missed the point. How you can ever defend losing to a strategy that they've been told how to beat a minute prior and that the execution of defeating said strategy is extraordinarily simple boggles my mind.
On March 02 2012 13:14 Jayme wrote: This last page is full of people that missed the point. How you can ever defend losing to a strategy that they've been told how to beat a minute prior and that the execution of defeating said strategy is extraordinarily simple boggles my mind.
"The point" n. 15. An objective or purpose to be reached or achieved, or one that is worth reaching or achieving: What is the point of discussing this issue further? 16. The major idea or essential part of a concept or narrative: You have missed the whole point of the novel. --- adj. thesis. For example:
I began, then, my quest to better understand the average bronze leaguer. I have been calling them stupid, but that's not entirely accurate. It is wrong, however convenient, to see someone doing something stupid and think they themselves are also stupid. I've done plenty of stupid things; everyone has. You couldn't call everyone stupid, though. Just most people. The fact is, the people in bronze league are only marginally less intelligent than the rest of society. That is where the fascination comes in. That is why I have felt the need to understand why this group of people, who in most respects are completely normal, are so horrible at Starcraft, especially when most of the Starcraft community is concerned with improving itself. They are outliers; they are interesting. ...Sadly, though, most bronze players simply don't want to learn. It seems almost any strategy performed by a capable enough player is able to beat a bronze leaguer. We all knew that, though. The thing is, I would hardly call myself capable. That's where the mindfuck comes in: I'm not good at this game. So to uncover a group of people who appear to be willfully worse than even me is just madness.
17. A significant, outstanding, or effective idea, argument, or suggestion: Your point is well taken. --- adj. sub-thesis. For example:
I was tasked again with finding a strategy that bronzies could easily beat and was quick to execute. I couldn't think of anything but worker rushing, but I had already done that to death. Then, my mind wandered back to a forum poster who suggested I worker rush, but at the start of the game calmly explain how to defeat it. It was perfect! It was stupid, it should never work, and I could do it repeatedly to gauge their bronze reactions. And maybe someone would resist the urge to rage at me and actually learn something! What could be better?
You're talking about 17 (a 494-word argument within a 5,298-word essay). We're talking about 15 & 16 (the unspoken premises, thesis, & unspoken conclusions of all 5,298 words).
On March 02 2012 05:19 FookSake wrote: First off: Kudos to imbecile, Moggles, and Xatalos for humanizing a faceless minority amidst 21 pages of scornful comments.
On February 21 2012 03:55 ladyumbra wrote: As a bronze player this is both incredibly truthful and more inspiring than insulting.
I mostly just find it insulting (OK - entertaining and insulting).
I am a low Bronze player. (Whew! It feels so good to get that off my chest.) I'm always a bit bemused by people with experience forgetting what it was like to be inexperienced. Parents forget what it was like to be a teenager and they think their kids are crazy, [poor] teachers do it with their students and think they're stupid. And apparently experienced gamers do it with unskilled gamers and think they're deliberately obtuse. At least human nature is consistent... It couldn't possibly be that hard stuff is hard, especially when you're provided with (at best) no instruction or (at worst) poor instruction.
I can feel a long-winded post coming on, so I'll just limit myself to 3 points: 1) What a Bronze player knows before playing his first ladder game 2) Who Bronze players are 3) What a Bronze player learns from playing in Bronze
1) What a Bronze player knows before playing his first ladder game They know one thing (at best) - the Campaign. And how do you succeed in campaigns? You turtle, tech up, and make one big push. Let's say they don't take too long finishing the campaign - they have about 12 hours of that play style drilled into their brains, and it was their formative learning experience. Oh wait, they know one more thing - the mechanics of playing Terran (and very fundamental mechanics of playing Protoss). Where does that leave someone (like me) who wants to play Zerg or Protoss? It leaves them with a steep learning curve. Try learning mid- & late-game tech through trial-and-error in a system where the average game lasts 10 minutes (if you're lucky). In short, before they even start their placement matches, Bronze players are programmed to fail. Especially when you consider the shark tank that they're thrown into...
2) Who Bronze players are From what I've seen (which is, granted, only about 50 league games in Bronze), this looks to be the makeup of Bronze league: ---Group A) New/unskilled player wanting to get better (40%): I'd like to think I'm in this group. What these Bronze players have learned (from reading forums & watching Dailies) is that they need to improve their fundamentals. Unfortunately, Battle.net doesn't reward this - this kind of fundamentals training has a long-term payoff, but is very discouraging in the short-term (as it requires a whole lot of losing until they overcome whatever competence plateau they're currently struggling with). ---Group B) New/unskilled player wanting to win/have a good time (40%): This is the group that may or may not have started out in group (a), but has since gone over to the Dark Side. They've learned that Battle.net rewards wins and doesn't especially care how they're gotten, so they resort to gimmicks. They've also learned that most people in Bronze (much of Groups A & C) haven't learned their gimmick & its counter yet. So, like hail balls, people in Group B win & rise to silver, then get smacked back down to bronze by people who have invested in fundamentals. They then gimmick their way to silver, and so on, getting thicker and thicker and heavier and heavier with each cycle (yay for meteorological metaphors!) ---Group C) Casual gamers (15%): God bless them. Nobody gives them enough credit; they're subsidizing our hobby. ---and apparently there's a Group D: Higher-league trolls (5%): unless they're actively coaching, they're not really helping. (No, 'hard knocks' lessons don't really help Bronze-leaguers. More on that later.) These folks might as well be playing Quake with God mode codes on - whatever floats your boat, I guess.
3) What a Bronze player learns from playing in Bronze Why, they learn to play like a Bronze player, of course! When a brand new player is first relegated to Bronze, it's a death sentence for skill growth. When all they see is turtling, 6-pools, banshee rushes, reaper harrass, and mass void rays/stalkers, that becomes all that they know. And Battle.net [temporarily] rewards them for joining the pack.
If they wise up and start scouring the internets for advice, it's usually only tangentially helpful. "You can get to platinum by doing nothing other than improving your macro." "All you have to do is improve your late-game." "Yeah, scouting really helps." Advice like this is applicable, but too general to execute on. And advice that is specific is rarely applicable. Build orders help your early game tremendously, but at 5 minutes you're as lost as you were before you mastered the build order committed to a build order. This is why real-time mentoring is so important. Unfortunately, it's also rare.
The way people best gain skill in any game (hell, the way we all best learn any life skill) is by playing with & learning from better players. That's why mentor systems are everywhere. But how many Bronze players actually have an IRL/real-time mentor? I sure as hell don't. I have Day[9], a haystack of streams from which to produce a needle that can teach me what I need to learn right now, and my own replays.
You know what else I don't have ? Time. I have 2 hours a night (if I'm lucky) to dedicate to my hobbies. (Incidentally, a 14-hour a week hobby is considered a bit excessive by society at large.) That's two hours in which to: - ladder - watch my replays - analyze my replays for the one or two things to work on - watch Day[9] Dailies - watch streams (assuming I've found ones that are useful to a Bronze Zerg player of my skill & knowledge of the metagame... good luck with that one) - watch tournaments (which take place every weekend, apparently) - listen to SotG - research build orders, counters, and mid-/late-game strats (each it's own haystack) - etc. And if I don't do all of that (& immediately program it into muscle memory), then I'm somehow accessory to peoples' loss of faith in humanity? At least it's reciprocated, I guess.
"But how can you play so much and not learn from your mistakes. These people have played over 100 games - they're not new anymore." *snort* Seriously, try to remember what it's like to be new at something. Step 1 is learning how to learn; even the ability to watch a replay and deduce what your "1 mistake" was is a hard-won skill. That skill alone would take 50 replay-watches to hone, and we haven't even fixed any mistakes yet!
"Still, if they've played 100 games, how thick do they have to be to keep falling to the same all-ins over and over?" Let's do some quick math, shall we? 100 games x 50% win rate (if Battle.net is doing its job) = 50 losses -30 games that reach mid- or late-game (when you're lucky enough to be paired with a like-minded Group A-er) = 20 losses in early game (judging from my experience with all-ins & 'cheese') / 9 types early game counters to learn (assuming that, per race, there are only 2 cheeses & 1 common all-in that a Bronze player could reasonably execute. Which, let's be honest, is a laughably low estimate.) = 2.22.. instances of losing to any one strategy
I ask you, can you honestly say that you'd be able to scout, recognize, prepare, and effectively execute a counter on something that's only happened to you twice?
TL;DR - Back the eff off! SC2 is great because it's infinitely challenging, but that means it has a steep learning curve. Why not be a solution instead of contributing to the problem? Skills gaps grow like any other gap (wealth, education, whatever) - when the haves have a choice to share with the have-nots and choose something else instead.
Hi, I have a story of my own. My name in SC2 is UloseTheGame. About a year ago, I played league. For months and months I tried to get really good, maybe dreaming of one day being a really good player. But I'm not as good at video games as I am at say, chess, and my Starcraft 2 league play is bronze or silver level, I was smart enough to scower the forums every day, trying to apply what I'd read. And you know what? I played one thousand games, and I'm still in bronze. I'm NEVER getting out of bronze, not till the day they reset the MMR and I feel like I can play without boring myself. I don't play Melee, but I'm a competitive guy, I need a competitive custom to keep myself entertained. I chose SC2 LoTRish personally. I am sixteen, and I'm a smart guy, but I'm not so great at video games, i'd need to be coached, I don't care enough for that. Let's say I had played a thousand games in diamond, maybe I would've adapted. But in bronze its the same shit over and over again. And I stopped playing mid season 1, I don't care enough to play more. Besides, if something is popular, its not fun to promote, and I've always loved getting feedback on stuff people have never heard of. Anyway, if your interested in SC2 LoTR pm me, UloseTheGame.140, and maybe i'll tell you a bit about, but I'm never going back to horrid bronze league. I saw someone who said "Im scared to raise my children in a world with these people", well you know, I'm scared to one day raise MY children in a world of ignorant dumbfucks like you. I wish you all a very good day, and please, listen to the guy I quoted.
I have only one question: can you macro? You can seriously get to plat/diamond by simply massing stalker/marine/roach-dra and a moving the ball. You don't have to micro, you don't have to strategize, you just macro nicely and a-move.
While there are other ways to get out of bronze if your still in it there is a 100% certainty that your macro is a long way from being solid. Maybe it's your build, maybe its expansion timings, or maybe its plain old forgetting to make units/supply/production facilities. Either way you cannot have decent macro and be in bronze (or silver, or gold, and probably not even plat).
If you really don't think you have the ability to learn macro and couldn't improve in other areas then yes you could be stuck in bronze.
If you can learn to macro you can, and will, escape bronze.
I coached my gf from beginner to gold in under 2 weeks simply by teaching her how to macro and bane/roach a-move off of 2 base (funnily enough one of the biggest things for getting out of bronze was learning to build a spore in each mineral line for standard voids/banshees). It baffles me that anyone can play 1,000 games of ladder whilst scouring the forums, still be in bronze and consider themselves a "smart guy".
Gheed, I don't know what bronze league you are in, but mine is different. I rarely am matched with an authentic "newbie". I actually consdider modern day bronze league to be quite a bit more difficult than it was in, say Season 1 of the ladder. Bronzies attack, now. They have builds and know timings. Sure, they are bad but my experience seems much different than yours.
On March 03 2012 09:34 Scarecrow wrote: I coached my gf from beginner to gold in under 2 weeks simply by teaching her how to macro and bane/roach a-move off of 2 base (funnily enough one of the biggest things for getting out of bronze was learning to build a spore in each mineral line for standard voids/banshees). It baffles me that anyone can play 1,000 games of ladder whilst scouring the forums, still be in bronze and consider themselves a "smart guy".
I just know your talking about me. Come play me in LoTR, I guarantee you that whatever you do, i'll be better. But here's the catch, im not telling you ANYTHING. No hints, no nothing. We'll play a thousand games and see if you can figure it out. If you can beat me by the time we've played 1000 games, congrats, your out of bronze. If else, I'm going to laugh at how much of a stupid fuck you are. So what we got a deal?
Who wants to play 1000 games of some silly nerdgasm UMS if they can actually play and get better on ladder? Since you know, this seems to be an option for other people, maybe you haven't adequately explored the idea that some people actually do that.
I still don't get why insulting bad players in 10000 words is better than saying "haha f4gg0t uR bad". But it seems like you're having fun, so congrats I guess.
Dissapointed I missed this when it was first posted. My face hurts from a mix of laughter and utter confusion. Thanks for always linking back in your blogs!
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.kaiodee.com/sites/kaiodee.com/files/20090417-wild-rabbit-1-1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wM9Sl.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://cdn2.all-art.org/world_literature/images/d/60.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://ewpopwatch.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/walterdix_l.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fb6Go.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/d31Gg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bW3A6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VAHM2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qyDjo.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OvwTp.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/7/70/Planetary_Fortress.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rEacK.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/F5IDI.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vLm0X.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/53p4X.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WA3Wi.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZY1Vo.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4z2KJ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/P1TgK.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JaRyt.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fevAY.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BCIph.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/q7uqv.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wILKe.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ztkP3.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZRfDI.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GY1De.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZkNc8.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JIQxK.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/669UT.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kZ9AI.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Njvut.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rzZLT.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hi0HL.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9r9dj.jpg)
P. It wasn't the hell it is now, though it was still quite bad. I agree, besides them thinking you were trying to trick them, why.... why would they not just.... do what they should know works... Like.. To the worst strategy... ever. Like I see this in my brothers but that's kinda excusable cus they're 10 and they only play cus they wanna be like me haha, a super gosu player who's the best ever, even though they follow the pro scene. Haha they watch my shitty diamond play and tell me I should be best in the world... I guess I'm a good big bro? XD
