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On February 06 2012 19:06 blackwolf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 17:00 Divinek wrote:On February 06 2012 14:19 dzogchengrey wrote:
Wow, I usually just lurk but I just have to speak up here. I really lost a lot of respect for the community after reading this. Especially after seeing it spotlighted. I think what anyone who finds this entertaining needs to understand is... some people really just want to play for fun. I think some people have lost sight of this fact, as well as the fact that many people have a very very very low understanding of this game compared to all of you. And for them this is simply another game to play. They don't sit online in forums, watch replays, research build orders, hotkeys, unit counters, whatever. This does not mean that they are stupid, or lazy, or slow.
My friend is a brilliant fps player...which I am less then stellar at. I've had him play sc2 with me a few times and he is utterly wretched. The decisions he makes seem to literally make no sense at all, but that is because he doesn't know any better. He doesn't improve because he plays sc2 just for fun. He devotes his time and energy to improving other facets of his life...being a better doctor (yes he is a doctor), or a better drummer (we play in a band together) or his fps games. Starcraft just isn't as important to him as it is to all of you. I actually told him the other day to check out team liquid, and how everyone on here seemed like such good people, helpful and kind. I wanted to try and spur his interest in starcraft. Now I am extremely disappointed after reading this and can't imagine his reaction if he ran into Gheed in game. Of course he would be upset, probably BM (which by the way most people outside sc2 community have no concept of what is considered bm, don't even know what the hell GG is) and then be ridiculed or patronized by Gheed. What you people who find this humorous don't realize is, even though you may say "lolz, worker rush just a-move." Casual players (and yes a casual player may have played hundreds of games) just don't understand the best way to respond to that situation.
To those who say this is a form of bullying, you are exactly right. I think someone made an excuse that it's not logical to call it bullying since it is such a simple strat and easily beaten. It never seems like bullying when you are coming from a place of power. But think of the other persons perspective. What if a bully in school pushed you to the ground everyday. And when you complained you were being bullied the teacher/principle simply said "well, he is using a very simple technique to knock you down all you have to do is side step out of the way noob"?
I really can not see how there is anything of value to be learned from what Gheed is doing. You want an answer to why some bronze people suck? Cause to them this is just a game...simple as that. Something to do to pass the time and have fun playing. They click the little buttons at the bottom right of the screen and make crap shoot each other. It is truly sad to me that people can somehow find a way to feel superior because they have more knowledge about a subject that others probably have spent little or no time contemplating. I have spent many many of my waking hours playing music, learning theory, was a vocal major in college, play guitar/bass/drums/keys whatever. Would it make sense for me to go laugh at someone attempting to go play their first open mic for fun? Tell them I can't believe they can't make a simple G chord? Say that I somehow want to study them to figure out why they are so damn bad? I mean...come on. I know this is under blogs, and I will be honest I don't know exactly how this works since Gheed def. is entitled to his own opinions in his own blog. However, I really hope this comes down off spotlight. It really paints the Team Liquid community in a bad light. To those of you who stood up for these victims, good for you. Be proud of yourselves. To anyone who was featured in these blogs I am sorry, I want you to know not all people around here are like this, many are very kind and helpful. Keep playing and having fun. It is just a game after all. If you wanna play for fun do custom games with other people you know only want to play for fun. Do not, I say again, do not play on a competitive ladder where other people are most likely playing competitively. Is that so hard to understand? Well to be fair most people in bronze league play for fun not for competition, or they would simply not be in bronze league. The ladder system is pretty much designed so that players who dont want to play competitively or completely seriously get placed at the button and can square of against each other, not so that a high level player on purpose places himself in bronze league to beat them with tactics they dont know how to respond to. Dont really see the fun in this blog tbh. Seems you just want to provoke a bm response by worker rushing in order to feel you have a right to shit back at the other players with your own bm.
I couldn't have said that better myself, echoes my thoughts exactly. Im shocked this got spotlighted, seriously, worker rushing vs noobs, and writing a blog about it, sad day for TL IMO.
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On February 06 2012 14:19 dzogchengrey wrote:
Wow, I usually just lurk but I just have to speak up here. I really lost a lot of respect for the community after reading this. Especially after seeing it spotlighted. I think what anyone who finds this entertaining needs to understand is... some people really just want to play for fun. I think some people have lost sight of this fact, as well as the fact that many people have a very very very low understanding of this game compared to all of you. And for them this is simply another game to play. They don't sit online in forums, watch replays, research build orders, hotkeys, unit counters, whatever. This does not mean that they are stupid, or lazy, or slow.
Sure people play it for fun
I play this game for fun
I also play this game because I want to be competitive at it
Why would I play something that I lose at alot for no reason, all my friends who were silver and below like eventually just all quit (I got their accounts too, but w/e).
You forget that people play to win too.
Also what you say would make sense, but the problem is that if they were just simply "trying to play" and if still playing in bronze was somehow still "fun" to those people, why would they _rage_. like blindly, raging at the person.... Unless they also realized they didn't actually have to talk to the person who _just beat them_ to tell them they are noob (when well, technically they are the noob).
Ok, unless they feel that somehow playing lots of games and losing alot and then always blaming it on imbalance, or messaging the other person that they were hacking or actually bad after they _lost_ is ____Fun____ then um. ok. but that's not playing the game.
On February 06 2012 14:19 dzogchengrey wrote:
My friend is a brilliant fps player...which I am less then stellar at. I've had him play sc2 with me a few times and he is utterly wretched. The decisions he makes seem to literally make no sense at all, but that is because he doesn't know any better. He doesn't improve because he plays sc2 just for fun. He devotes his time and energy to improving other facets of his life...being a better doctor (yes he is a doctor), or a better drummer (we play in a band together) or his fps games. Starcraft just isn't as important to him as it is to all of you. I actually told him the other day to check out team liquid, and how everyone on here seemed like such good people, helpful and kind. I wanted to try and spur his interest in starcraft. Now I am extremely disappointed after reading this and can't imagine his reaction if he ran into Gheed in game. Of course he would be upset, probably BM (which by the way most people outside sc2 community have no concept of what is considered bm, don't even know what the hell GG is) and then be ridiculed or patronized by Gheed. What you people who find this humorous don't realize is, even though you may say "lolz, worker rush just a-move." Casual players (and yes a casual player may have played hundreds of games) just don't understand the best way to respond to that situation.
To those who say this is a form of bullying, you are exactly right. I think someone made an excuse that it's not logical to call it bullying since it is such a simple strat and easily beaten. It never seems like bullying when you are coming from a place of power. But think of the other persons perspective. What if a bully in school pushed you to the ground everyday. And when you complained you were being bullied the teacher/principle simply said "well, he is using a very simple technique to knock you down all you have to do is side step out of the way noob"?
FPS? Guess what, I suck at more than you. so what. that's why i don't play those games
When I do, it's just with my brother and just against bots (which turns into me doing comical things and laughing........ such as going into cod against bots and killing myself with rocket launchers while killing the bots ^_^ fun fun), Technically I'd do the same thing in a real game (Because "I don't care about the stats of the game"), which is similar to these bronze players. Sure I'd be laughed at, but I'm not trying to play the multiplayer, and even if I did, and did those kinds of things. Do you think it'll be appropriate for me to rage at the other players (just trying to play the damn game too) how bad they actually are and that they were hacking and that I'm gonna go sue them/go tell the admins to get them banned too?
"Casual players (and yes a casual player may have played hundreds of games) just don't understand the best way to respond to that situation."
As technically I'm a casual gamer in certain other games like HoN/Dota2/FPS games, I still know enough so I can um.... actually...like win? and like can handle losing (given my 'casual' status) that I can leave the game (sure, without a gg, but I'm not going to um go "LOL YOU NOOB /quit" or something totally immature like that?
Ah and don't pull the "they might have a mental illness" Guess what I have 2-3 myself. Does that mean that you can be a total jerk to people online? No.
"What if a bully in school pushed you to the ground everyday. And when you complained you were being bullied the teacher/principle simply said "well, he is using a very simple technique to knock you down all you have to do is side step out of the way noob"?"
No the situation in here would be, using your metaphor, would be "He pushed me to the ground, so then I stood back up and then started to bark at him saying that he sucks and that I'll sue him and get him expelled, then run away after, or start to debate with him comically for 30+ minutes how he's an idiot and you aren't, and he's explaining what actually happened, and what you can do (.... a-move the damn workers).
"You want an answer to why some bronze people suck? Cause to them this is just a game...simple as that. Something to do to pass the time and have fun playing."
is losing and crying imbalance, losing and crying that the opponent is a noob, losing and crying that the opponent is a hacker, or losing and...well...losing considered "fun" to the person? uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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You are my favorite person ever.
To have that much spite in you, I must say I am honestly jealous
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A little message to the OP:
As a fellow worker-rusher, I must say you're not the one who know the more about it, as you do what I would call a clear mistake in the first game you describe (the one that ends up in a draw). When you're terran, you should always lift your CC fterbuilding worker number 7 and float it to another base which will be:
- closer to the ennemy base: less distance if you want to come back and mine
- somewhere your opponent doesn't know so he will waste time looking for it
You would have won that game if you had done that. Also, hear my story of worker rushing. I began doing it reading your blog (yeah!) and then kept doing it for the dak voice. When I reached the 1000 random wins, I then decided to do it race per race. So I went for terran, and reached the 1000 wins as terran. Next I decided zerg. For some reason, I tried the 12/10 drone rush instead of the usual 7-worker rush, and for some reason, I just couldn't lose (except ZvZ). And I began to see my MMR go dangerously high. So high that, after fiwing ZvZ by going 6pool instead of worker rush, I reached high platinum (pretty much my level before worker rushing) doing just that. Quite fun ;-) My problem will be with protoss, obviously. I remember having trouble with P when I was at the "random" stage, so I know it's gonna be hard
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On February 06 2012 20:50 SolidMustard wrote:
A little message to the OP:
As a fellow worker-rusher, I must say you're not the one who know the more about it, as you do what I would call a clear mistake in the first game you describe (the one that ends up in a draw). When you're terran, you should always lift your CC fterbuilding worker number 7 and float it to another base which will be:
- closer to the ennemy base: less distance if you want to come back and mine
- somewhere your opponent doesn't know so he will waste time looking for it
You would have won that game if you had done that. Also, hear my story of worker rushing. I began doing it reading your blog (yeah!) and then kept doing it for the dak voice. When I reached the 1000 random wins, I then decided to do it race per race. So I went for terran, and reached the 1000 wins as terran. Next I decided zerg. For some reason, I tried the 12/10 drone rush instead of the usual 7-worker rush, and for some reason, I just couldn't lose (except ZvZ). And I began to see my MMR go dangerously high. So high that, after fiwing ZvZ by going 6pool instead of worker rush, I reached high platinum (pretty much my level before worker rushing) doing just that. Quite fun ;-) My problem will be with protoss, obviously. I remember having trouble with P when I was at the "random" stage, so I know it's gonna be hard
On shakuras and shattered I move my CC next to the rocks in case it turns into an unwinnable (more unwinnable?) situation where I've lowered the worker count in such a way that I could tech and win. I've only done it a few times, though. If I were going to do it regularly, why wouldn't I just harass with 4 workers and tech at home? And if i were going to do that, why not just 3 rax rush them? In the end, I decided to put as little effort as possible into each game. If they don't die to the initial a-move, I just leave. I don't want to spend time teching off of 3 workers.
I do like to move my CC to my enemies base in close air spawns for laughs, though. I've had games where they lift off so I just take their base and mine from it to kill them.
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Amazing read once again! I was laughing most of the time, but the last chat log (lawyer up!) completely got me ♥
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Apologies, I don't really know how to nestle quotes in here to respond to some of the comments pertaining to my first post. Maybe someone wants to make a blog about my stupidity? j/k Anyway, I am at work and really don't have time to figure it out and am tying from phone which is a pain, but I read some responses to my previous post about playing ladder so they should expect the game to be competative, or they bm so they are fair game. I would just like to make a simple example that i feel works in this situation and is more fleshed out that my previous. Please give it careful consideratiln and honestly think how you would react/feel in this situation.
You come across a ad in the local paper saying they are having a basketball tournament, and that even though it will be competative they will place you with other players of your skill level. So you say sure I have fun shooting hoops now and then at the gym why not do it...sound fun right. So your 10buck entrance fee or whatever and when it's your turn for a little one on one your opponnent just happens to be some dude who playes or
played at the college level. So he whoops you. But wait that's not all, he whoops you with one hand literally tied behind his back. Then after the game tries to bait out a bad response from you by making condescending remarks disguised as hknest questiong. "Hey man help me understand why you didnt just steal the ball?" "I had one hand tied behind my back why didn't you just drive the hoop?" So in this situation? You would say nothing back, you wouldn't feel cheated...humiliated...egged on to respond poorly? Let take it a step farther to address the last interaction gheed posted. Say in this situation you tell the guy your going to let the community/officials know about the problem. And he says go ahead. And when you do you realize that not only are some people having a great time laughing at your expense and supporting this behavior. But also they taped te game and are going to broadcast your failure on the local news. How would you respond? Would you feel angry? Would you say things that may seem a little off? Honestly think about it? The problem
whith what Gheed is that he is a skilled player, player against less skilled opponents. It doesn't matter that he worker rushes because he is just plain better. He even admits to going back to mine, pulling weak probes, leaving one to scout. He's not just A clicking the opponents base and letting them go. He beats player who expected to play other of the same skill level in a way that humiliates them them the most. How would any of you like to play against MVP or MMA. And We say well they are just gonna mess around and only build marines and tanks so since they are playing silly you should have no problem beating them. It just doesn't work that way. Please think about it. Sorry this was all written on a iphone. There are bound to be mistakes.
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Omg after reading that last part...the suing part. All I could say was daayyyyuuuum. Speechless man, really really insightful.
So far what I have gotten from these blogs is that bronze players want to play the game without actually learning it. And somehow this is fun...? It's sounds as if some of these guys skipped the single player altogether and jumped straight into the abyss. Even decent players fear the ladder. What the hell.
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Fantastic read again :D , had a lot of fun.
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The high college basketball player surely knows, that he is gonna win even with one arm bound on his back. Losing to a more skilled player should never be a problem, instead those bronze players are just angry that they fail to a worker rush, no matter how skilled the opponent is. why is that? maybe because they want to be competitive and are disappointed by themselfs? If so, they shouldnt blame the opponent for their lack of skill. The person, who just wants some fun playing the game has no reason to be pissed of, because worker rushes are rare (happens maybe once a hundred games, at least for me). it doesnt take much time of him and in the end, it will regulate itself. if for some reason a high number of bronze games happen to be worker rushes, the players even in bronze will find a way to deal with it.
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you know, i was bronze once, and i couldn't have been that bad once. but your blog seems to prove otherwise.
5/5
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United States5162 Posts
A platinum player isn't even close to the equivalent of a college basketball player. It's more like some junior varsity high school scrub.
Also, there is no skill in boxing your workers and a clicking. Me worker rushing and Naniwa worker rushing are the same thing.
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dzogchengrey: Let's also include the fact that the game in your scenario takes at most five min. And the fact that both me and my opponent are anonymous. And that I can chose for myself exactly how many games I want to play that day, and any other day of the week, depending solely on how much time I have on my hands. And also the opponent is only doing straight bounces with the ball in an easily readable pattern. In that case If I lost I'd acknowledge the fact that it was due to me being bad, and even though I'd think he was kind of a douche I would just go on to the next game. After asking him for some tips, since he was clearly better than me. If it annoyed me I would check if the rules allowed smurfing, and if they didn't I'd go and report him. I would not, however, start screaming like an imbecile. Because at the end of the day the only thing he did was waste five minutes of my day.
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On February 06 2012 22:15 gitarrojoe wrote:
The high college basketball player surely knows, that he is gonna win even with one arm bound on his back. Losing to a more skilled player should never be a problem, instead those bronze players are just angry that they fail to a worker rush, no matter how skilled the opponent is. why is that? maybe because they want to be competitive and are disappointed by themselfs? If so, they shouldnt blame the opponent for their lack of skill. The person, who just wants some fun playing the game has no reason to be pissed of, because worker rushes are rare (happens maybe once a hundred games, at least for me). it doesnt take much time of him and in the end, it will regulate itself. if for some reason a high number of bronze games happen to be worker rushes, the players even in bronze will find a way to deal with it.
Some people are not masters of patience and venting against someone who just embarassed you is a way to get over it.
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I like reading this because it makes me feel good about myself.
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There's a difference between bad and fucking comatose. Losing to worker rushes is the absolute bottom. Go take your "no fun allowed" picket signs somewhere else.
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Funny and accurate ....
Love how you highlight how illogic it can be that people who just want to "have fun", played more than 500 games, stayed in bronze all that time, and still manage to show more rage than many competitive players (whom the game should matter much more to).
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this seems kinda harsh on the guys who just got the game, Take a step back and see what you're doing to these poor innocent souls. Also I completely agree with the basketball dude, I just can't be bothered making a metaphor similar.
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Gheed.
I do not make a lot of money. And I live a pretty tame life. And I spend a lot of time bouncing between frozen backwaters no right-thinking man would ever intentionally visit. But if you EVER find yourself in Saskatchewan or Alberta, you let me know, yeah? Because on this day, on this hour, at this moment, I swear to every deity man has ever believed in: we will a-move our way through the finest beer and whisky Canada has to offer, until I realize I'm spending way too much money, at which point we will load up in a command center and fly to an island expansion with much cheaper alcohol. And I can probably round up a bunch of hippie chicks if you want.
Just sayin'. Keep up the good work, and good luck tanking your MMR.
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EPT
