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Mindgames in GSL *spoiler* - Page 9

Blogs > iamke55
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 All
shadowy
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Bulgaria305 Posts
January 14 2012 08:45 GMT
#161
Wow...that was an amazing read...thank you!
[Fear the leather Gracket!] // ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ // Liquid'Hero hwaiting!
envisioN .
Profile Joined February 2011
United States552 Posts
January 14 2012 18:35 GMT
#162
Love this article. Two thumbs up for looking beneath the obvious builds to the complex mindgames that go on in the highest level of games.
"Good works do not make a good man, but a good man does good works" -Martin Luther ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
ZONTICKSZ
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom11 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-14 20:24:11
January 14 2012 20:23 GMT
#163
Good read. I'm going offtopic here a little but i always wondered what the hotkey was for 'Vision' to appear, [image loading]. If anyone can answer me, will be much appreciated ^^
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
January 14 2012 21:32 GMT
#164
This is a really cool post. I always suspected that the sloppier, perhaps cheesier games that people roll their eyes at have more complicated stuff going on that nobody catches, but I'm not good enough to see them myself, so I'm glad someone's illuminating these details for me. I hope more analysis like this is done in the future.
Dalguno
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2446 Posts
January 14 2012 22:03 GMT
#165
On January 15 2012 05:23 ZONTICKSZ wrote:
Good read. I'm going offtopic here a little but i always wondered what the hotkey was for 'Vision' to appear, [image loading]. If anyone can answer me, will be much appreciated ^^


Select a unit or building of the player whose vision you want to see and hold V.
"I'm gonna keep making drones cause I'm a baller, and ballers make drones." -Snute
iVapeBuds
Profile Joined January 2012
1 Post
January 15 2012 03:20 GMT
#166
This is a nice post for people who may not have gotten to see the GSL games, but isn't this an exact regurgitation of Artosis' and Tasteless' live commentary/analysis of the games?
JoonX
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada72 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-15 04:18:01
January 15 2012 04:17 GMT
#167
Moral of the story is simple. Until a player realizes the fact that he is playing against a real human and not an AI that hammers out specific stuff at specific timings for specific maps, he will forever be stuck at a mediocre level. Intellectual "reading" into a play without considering that an opponent can decieve you will leave you vulnerable. You got to develop an instinct and not rely on the "If I see A then option 1 is the proper response" thinking. Sometimes overthinking will be your downfall. Never assume.
There is no such things as counters. Only responses. Good or bad? Up to you.
HardMacro
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Canada361 Posts
January 15 2012 05:15 GMT
#168
On January 15 2012 07:03 Dalguno wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 05:23 ZONTICKSZ wrote:
Good read. I'm going offtopic here a little but i always wondered what the hotkey was for 'Vision' to appear, [image loading]. If anyone can answer me, will be much appreciated ^^


Select a unit or building of the player whose vision you want to see and hold V.


Or just press 1 or 2.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ saving this here because I use it, don't know how to make it, and don't know it's name
CursedRich
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom737 Posts
January 15 2012 11:41 GMT
#169
Great article sir, well written, good read, thanks
Chill Winston......
ShaneFeit
Profile Joined August 2011
92 Posts
January 15 2012 13:44 GMT
#170
thanks for the analysis wish there was more quality content like this on TL
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
January 15 2012 18:12 GMT
#171
On January 15 2012 14:15 HardMacro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 07:03 Dalguno wrote:
On January 15 2012 05:23 ZONTICKSZ wrote:
Good read. I'm going offtopic here a little but i always wondered what the hotkey was for 'Vision' to appear, [image loading]. If anyone can answer me, will be much appreciated ^^


Select a unit or building of the player whose vision you want to see and hold V.


Or just press 1 or 2.


simple questions simple answers thread
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
TheTurk
Profile Joined January 2011
United States732 Posts
January 16 2012 18:01 GMT
#172
Absolutely wonderful and informative read.
Thanks a bunch! <3
Starcraft is a lifestyle.
LanZ
Profile Joined June 2007
35 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-17 17:41:11
January 17 2012 17:40 GMT
#173
They're all cheese. I'm not impressed... /sarcasm


This blog was a very great read. A very good study of how early game plays snowballs to a win. Once the metagame shifts from a safe/risky early game builds to a more refined mid game transitions, this game will be more impressive.

I really can't wait for these kind of plays to be applied to the mid/late game transitions once the progamers' understanding elevates.
I just realized that, in my opinion, it took about a year and a half for these trends/metagame to develop, while during the early years of broodwar, we saw the same development in 2-3 years. This analysis really shows how the ex-BW players in SC2 have applied their experience and understanding of the game's depths.

I'm so hyped for what's to come! :D
Go Bisu ~ JangBi !!!
eXigent.
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada2419 Posts
January 18 2012 03:24 GMT
#174
On January 13 2012 20:40 NrGmonk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2012 15:19 iamke55 wrote:
Whether or not Terran wants you to know about his gas doesn't change the fact that he can't afford both a refinery and a supply depot that early, and that this is a common sign of 1 rax FE. Of course, nobody commits to a read off of just the supply depot, but when you also see the low ground bunker, that's when you're almost certain there's a CC behind it.

You can make both that early as Terran. If you couldn't then how do you explain how Supernova made both too early? You just have to delay your OC a bit or go 16 OC.

Show nested quote +
About the rest, you must be playing the safest Terrans in the world if they play the same against 3 gate robo and 4 gate. I don't know how you can deny that 4 gate forces more bunkers and SCVs pulled. I even have a replay of you playing against NrGAvoid who made 1 bunker and didn't pull SCVs because you never went to his side of the map despite seeing his expansion CC. MC did the greediest possible 3 gate robo in his game against ForGG, taking his third at 9 minutes just like he does when using 4 gates. He still faced a 30+ supply disadvantage and lost after killing 2 full medivacs for free. Compare to his game vs Cloud at HSC4, where he donated a nexus, 4 zealots, and his entire group of stalkers over the course of the game and still won through pure macro. These are mistakes you would never get away with against a Terran who's free to do whatever he wants off of 1 bunker. MC played way better against ForGG on Bel'Shir Beach than he did against Cloud on Daybreak, but lost mainly because ForGG had 50 more supply than Cloud at any given point in the game. If you want to see how much harder it is to play against a greedy Terran, I have a friend you could play against who never makes bunkers.

Using my own replays as an example is hax. We were both playing the same strats over and over for a long time, so he knew he could be greedy with me. My point is that as a terran you have to account for 4 gate to be completely safe, because it's really hard to tell the difference between 3 gate robo and 4 gate until the attack actually comes. Any terran who goes fast banshee or 3 cc will put up 2+ bunkers if they're being extra safe. In fact, there was a thread about how LiquidHero was being too aggressive with strats like his 4 gates against Puma and that's why he lost the NASL finals.

In the particular game vs ForGG, MC knew for a fact that ForGG had not gas for a very long time. If ForGG had actually gone cloaked banshees, they would have been more than a minute late, which would have given enough time for MC to do his 4 gate pressure and then add a robo and base trade versus the cloaked banshees. Thus, I doubt that MC went 3 gate robo largely in part because he feared 1 base cloaked banshee.

Also in the game vs ForGG, MC was only down 10 supply after killing 2 medivacs, but was whittle down to a 30 supply deficit directly after the battle, because he army was out of position and he had a unit composition disadvantage. Imo the big mistake of MC in that game was getting colossi too late. In my experience, vs a Terran who rushes 3cc, you need some type of fast AoE to stop the mass bio that will eventualyl be coming. I can't comment much about the game vs Cloud because I don't remember it.


I went back and watched the game. I think the only real reason that MC didnt expect it to be a depot blocking information, and instead a early depot for a gasless FE is that his probe didnt go up the ramp immediately, and instead glitched out and went beside it. By the time he went up the ramp, 1 to 2 seconds later, the 2nd scv was gone and the scv making the barracks was working on the supply depot. IMO that might of made him believe the depot was at a natural timing, rather than seeing it started while the barracks was still building.
SelK
Profile Joined May 2011
France81 Posts
January 19 2012 02:13 GMT
#175
Very informative read !!
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