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I dunno, the only thing I gleaned from this was that you were young and idealistic about how the ESPORTS industry worked and now you're justifying your poor experience by portraying yourself as a victim. I don't really see how you can be a part of ESPORTS for 10 years when you're admittedly 19 years old. Saying things like "I wanted a team jersey" or "I wanted to be famous" really don't show the right motivation for getting into the industry in the first place, either.
EDIT: I guess most of your silly statements can be interpreted as sarcasm, and that for the relatively uninformed this might be shocking, but it's something that happens altogether too frequently with gaming.
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Wow dude, that's terrible. You got shafted by pretty much everyone in esports  I hope you have better luck in the future.
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On December 25 2011 08:00 d3_crescentia wrote:
I dunno, the only thing I gleaned from this was that you were young and idealistic about how the ESPORTS industry worked and now you're justifying your poor experience by portraying yourself as a victim. I don't really see how you can be a part of ESPORTS for 10 years when you're admittedly 19 years old. Saying things like "I wanted a team jersey" or "I wanted to be famous" really don't show the right motivation for getting into the industry in the first place, either.
EDIT: I guess most of your silly statements can be interpreted as sarcasm, and that for the relatively uninformed this might be shocking, but it's something that happens altogether too frequently with gaming.
Not a bad article tbh, I kind of get the feeling that its the kind of article that the OP would have wanted himself to read if he were 13 years old again. I don't think the article comes as a big surprise to people who have pragmatic views about the field, rather than those who mindlessly chant "FOR ESPORTS!@!" It's mostly the younger audiences who have naive and idealistic views of esports, and most fansites and organizations don't help to dispel that myth (I'm not saying that they should, they're trying to support themselves/esports after all). Thus you end up with a lot of people in their teens or early twenties wanting to become progamers, or professional casters or writers or what have you. I don't think I've seen anyone who's actually older, did well or is doing well in school, or is holding down a regular job saying "fuck it, I want to become a progamer" or "I want to write esports articles and be salaried" and blog about it on TL. The fact is very very few people are able to make a living off of any aspect of this field, but the apparent accessibility and ease of entry deceives people.
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To be honest, I didn't agree with many things that were said in the article. I think it's pretty delusional to think that you can land a stable job as a journalist, especially in the esports scene.
Take a look at TeamLiquid writers, for example. As far as I know, most of them are not paid, and do this as a hobby because they want to contribute. From my experience, these guys are all fantastic writers, get tons of exposure, and are probably better than majority of other esports journalists as well. Even though it would be fantastic to see them get paid for their time and effort, I don't think we're at that stage, yet.
On a more personal scale, I used to translate articles here as well. I pretty much got up every day at 6AM, saw GSL results, and tackled interviews one by one. I can't even count how many I've translated. I enjoyed doing them, I loved the fact that people appreciated what I did, I wanted to make a name for myself in this awesome community, much like you.
Did I expect any pay? No. Sure, I would have liked to be compensated for my work, but that's not why I stepped up. I don't know what kind of a scale you're on in regards to exposure, but as a total sum, my articles hit more than a million views. I believe that's one of the highest view counts concerning translations and articles that are not automatically featured, but I still don't think I should have been paid. Perhaps in the future.
Besides, neither me or you have any kind of education, internship, or degree on writing (or translating). You're only 19 years old afterall. To add, none of these guys that supposedly scammed you, benefited from scamming you. The site went down, the team disappeared and they're all nobodies now. Things like that happen everywhere, not just in esports.
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CanucksJC pretty much summed it up. If you operate with the attitude that each ESPORTS opportunity is a job opportunity or that you can launch it into a full-fledged career, you'll most likely struggle even landing your first "position". Your attitude is going to play a big part, and when "higher ups" in some organizations are barely scraping by, what makes you think that you're going to receive enough salary and benefits to make ESPORTS a full fledged career?
I personally wouldn't hire anyone in it for the money (at this point). The rewards will come with hard work.
Also get used to being ignored by a lot of people. Everyone is very busy or maybe they just don't need your article anymore. Don't take it like its personal or you're getting shafted, gamers are just horrible at following up.
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yo i dont wanna be an ass or anything but i dont feel sorry for you and i think you deserve what you got
you were obviously illusioned, blinded by your desires, and even though you think these people "scammed" you I don't think they did
there was nothing set in stone
live and learn my friend, live and learn
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CanucksJC tackled it well, but I must add one thing: you're not a very good writer -- in English, anyway. I'd work on that first before expecting some sort of compensation.
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On December 25 2011 15:17 Cedstick wrote:
CanucksJC tackled it well, but I must add one thing: you're not a very good writer -- in English, anyway. I'd work on that first before expecting some sort of compensation.
yeah pretty much this. You made yourself out to be the victim when in reality that didnt're really seem to be the case....your writing isn't that great and I found that article hard to read. Not trying to be offensive or anything. Merry christmas my friend ^_^ Hope you can find an esports job in the future
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Calling this the "dark side of esports" is a little dramatic.
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This article is a joke.......
You have 0 qualifications and expect to be paid for your work? That's just not how the world works.
I'd put more but Canucks said it best.
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It doesn't really sound like you were all that badly treated. So someone never gave you 2 jerseys and someone else never gave you a free mouse/keyboard (which they never agreed to) and someone else was mean to you and didn't publish your article.
And this is the dark side of esports?
Your work is ok, not bad to read but nothing amazing either. It's fine for a fan site, but you seem to feel a high sense of entitlement for your contributions.
and you can't pull a Milkis if you're going to be successful.
Milkis has translated so many articles for us bw fans. He is a success.
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I feel like you had it a lot better than a lot of people in esports. Just think how much it would have sucked to be a BW pro back in the day. Making basically no money, practicing 12 hours a day, eating ramen, your parents don't support you and/or kicked you out. They didn't do it for the money or fame or success. They did it because they loved BW.
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I really dislike fps esports. I've been on different teams for ten years and it always sucked. I remember in 2008 playing against dignitas and pandemic in a rare scrimmage (they rarely scrimmed against unknowns) and we held our own losing 13-10. We finally got recognition but never pushed through. There is definitely elitism and a small group that is hard to break through. Even my current team won nearly every blops league and nobodycares bc we aren't a famous team. I've been screwed out of teams for "not being good enough" or "we recruited someone to take your spot" because of name recognition. I didn't read much of the article, so I'm not sure how you were screwed but that's what has happened to me
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On December 25 2011 07:21 k1mjee wrote:What's up guys? I've been wanting to expose the darker side of e-sports for some time now. People think everything is golden behind the scenes and everyone is friends with each other, but here's my story of being ripped off and whatnot by well-known names/organizations, so please read this not for the exposure or my benefit, but for the knowledge that not everything that shines is gold. I can't copypasta the whole article on TL, because it's against Cadred's rules, but I've been allowed to excerpt it and provide a link to the full piece below. Please read, any feedback VERY appreciated, harsh or not. http://www.cadred.org/News/Article/164067/ (FULL ARTICLE)
Show nested quote +It's been a while since I've really felt the need to write something aside from this. In fact, my memory lapses at the request to recall an example. Anyhow, I hate to break the holiday cheer, but I see this to be an issue that needs to be put out there, much like the way our very own Richard Lewis is treated at various LANs, the latest onslaught of mistreatment being ESWC if I recall correctly, where my boy Jonas Strisland got the better kick of the boot after being arrested for DUI, or in Rich's own words: "He’d been arrested for drunk driving… While walking." A classic tale of how three musketeers on a quest for the greater good of humanity get pounced upon by obstacles seemingly coming out of the woodwork, much like Tiger Woods' little elves. Right, back to the point. I'll spoil the rest of the article, as I usually do, with this little TL;DR -- or as I'd consider it, a lump of coal: this is the tale of how I became a part of Cadred, and my journeys of being scammed, lied to, ripped off and more by top organizations in e-sports.
I'll attempt to start from the beginning, but excuse my less-than-perfect recollection of sorts. A bit of background on myself, I've been active in e-sports for around a decade now. By active I mean playing a role in e-sports to benefit the scene as a whole in one way or another. Playing in PC bangs in Seoul for a game called Kart-Rider, dabbling in the Tekken scene and attending a few LANs as a spectator, playing CoD with a few friends and playing in a few online cups, and I'm even as courageous to say I was apart of Mayhem Makerz in a little game I call Runescape, although not e-sports related, that's my most shameless achievement. Why? The nostalgia I have embedded in my memory from the 7 years I played that game, ultimately quitting in 2006 after being scammed. Anyways, after striking a deal with my grandpa to help him with computer-related nonsense, I obtained Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare in early 2008, a few months after its release. My "e-sports career" was well and alive, but my actual "e-sports job career" if you can classify it as that, started here. As I started to play CoD4, I was still a pretty newby player at FPS games, only dabbling in classics like Quake for a few days here and there, and purchasing CoD2 for the Xbox a while back to play with a few friends when they came over. I never really had the "PC e-sports" concept in my mind, and always thought e-sports was just any game that was electronic. Smart, right? Right. So I began to play loads of hours each day, pubbing and whatever, and being the fanboy that we all were at one point in time, I wanted to join ButtonBashers after seeing 9 Lives (a fragmovie, for those of you that never have looked into the CoD/CoD4 scene at all). My fascination grew with these organized teams and whatnot in the game, seeing them win thousands of dollars at LANs across Europe and the rest of the world. It was made to be, I thought -- I was going to join ButtonBashers and become the best FPS player in the world. I did end up joining ButtonBashers, but I wasn't in the team department, and contrary to popular belief I wasn't the best FPS player in the world, sadly. Apologies for being a Scrooge. Happy Holidays to TeamLiquid and everyone else. FOR ESPORTS!
... o_O
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On December 26 2011 01:58 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 07:21 k1mjee wrote:What's up guys? I've been wanting to expose the darker side of e-sports for some time now. People think everything is golden behind the scenes and everyone is friends with each other, but here's my story of being ripped off and whatnot by well-known names/organizations, so please read this not for the exposure or my benefit, but for the knowledge that not everything that shines is gold. I can't copypasta the whole article on TL, because it's against Cadred's rules, but I've been allowed to excerpt it and provide a link to the full piece below. Please read, any feedback VERY appreciated, harsh or not. http://www.cadred.org/News/Article/164067/ (FULL ARTICLE)
It's been a while since I've really felt the need to write something aside from this. In fact, my memory lapses at the request to recall an example. Anyhow, I hate to break the holiday cheer, but I see this to be an issue that needs to be put out there, much like the way our very own Richard Lewis is treated at various LANs, the latest onslaught of mistreatment being ESWC if I recall correctly, where my boy Jonas Strisland got the better kick of the boot after being arrested for DUI, or in Rich's own words: "He’d been arrested for drunk driving… While walking." A classic tale of how three musketeers on a quest for the greater good of humanity get pounced upon by obstacles seemingly coming out of the woodwork, much like Tiger Woods' little elves. Right, back to the point. I'll spoil the rest of the article, as I usually do, with this little TL;DR -- or as I'd consider it, a lump of coal: this is the tale of how I became a part of Cadred, and my journeys of being scammed, lied to, ripped off and more by top organizations in e-sports.
I'll attempt to start from the beginning, but excuse my less-than-perfect recollection of sorts. A bit of background on myself, I've been active in e-sports for around a decade now. By active I mean playing a role in e-sports to benefit the scene as a whole in one way or another. Playing in PC bangs in Seoul for a game called Kart-Rider, dabbling in the Tekken scene and attending a few LANs as a spectator, playing CoD with a few friends and playing in a few online cups, and I'm even as courageous to say I was apart of Mayhem Makerz in a little game I call Runescape, although not e-sports related, that's my most shameless achievement. Why? The nostalgia I have embedded in my memory from the 7 years I played that game, ultimately quitting in 2006 after being scammed. Anyways, after striking a deal with my grandpa to help him with computer-related nonsense, I obtained Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare in early 2008, a few months after its release. My "e-sports career" was well and alive, but my actual "e-sports job career" if you can classify it as that, started here. As I started to play CoD4, I was still a pretty newby player at FPS games, only dabbling in classics like Quake for a few days here and there, and purchasing CoD2 for the Xbox a while back to play with a few friends when they came over. I never really had the "PC e-sports" concept in my mind, and always thought e-sports was just any game that was electronic. Smart, right? Right. So I began to play loads of hours each day, pubbing and whatever, and being the fanboy that we all were at one point in time, I wanted to join ButtonBashers after seeing 9 Lives (a fragmovie, for those of you that never have looked into the CoD/CoD4 scene at all). My fascination grew with these organized teams and whatnot in the game, seeing them win thousands of dollars at LANs across Europe and the rest of the world. It was made to be, I thought -- I was going to join ButtonBashers and become the best FPS player in the world. I did end up joining ButtonBashers, but I wasn't in the team department, and contrary to popular belief I wasn't the best FPS player in the world, sadly. Apologies for being a Scrooge. Happy Holidays to TeamLiquid and everyone else. FOR ESPORTS!
... o_O Your opinions are always a joy to read.
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The title is very misleading, this doesn't really touch on a dark side of e-sports at all...
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[9:27:56 PM] Duncan Shields: for a length a lot of it was spent on topics that were less interesting to me as the reader than perhaps to you as the author
[9:28:05 PM] Duncan Shields: the tone was fairly schmaltzy
I have to say, I agree with this assessment of your writing. It sums it up very nicely, and it's easy to portray yourself as the victim... why not take a look at your writing objectively? I found your article a chore to read, despite the fact that it's a topic I'm very interested in.
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On December 26 2011 03:03 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2011 01:58 Xeris wrote:On December 25 2011 07:21 k1mjee wrote:What's up guys? I've been wanting to expose the darker side of e-sports for some time now. People think everything is golden behind the scenes and everyone is friends with each other, but here's my story of being ripped off and whatnot by well-known names/organizations, so please read this not for the exposure or my benefit, but for the knowledge that not everything that shines is gold. I can't copypasta the whole article on TL, because it's against Cadred's rules, but I've been allowed to excerpt it and provide a link to the full piece below. Please read, any feedback VERY appreciated, harsh or not. http://www.cadred.org/News/Article/164067/ (FULL ARTICLE)
It's been a while since I've really felt the need to write something aside from this. In fact, my memory lapses at the request to recall an example. Anyhow, I hate to break the holiday cheer, but I see this to be an issue that needs to be put out there, much like the way our very own Richard Lewis is treated at various LANs, the latest onslaught of mistreatment being ESWC if I recall correctly, where my boy Jonas Strisland got the better kick of the boot after being arrested for DUI, or in Rich's own words: "He’d been arrested for drunk driving… While walking." A classic tale of how three musketeers on a quest for the greater good of humanity get pounced upon by obstacles seemingly coming out of the woodwork, much like Tiger Woods' little elves. Right, back to the point. I'll spoil the rest of the article, as I usually do, with this little TL;DR -- or as I'd consider it, a lump of coal: this is the tale of how I became a part of Cadred, and my journeys of being scammed, lied to, ripped off and more by top organizations in e-sports.
I'll attempt to start from the beginning, but excuse my less-than-perfect recollection of sorts. A bit of background on myself, I've been active in e-sports for around a decade now. By active I mean playing a role in e-sports to benefit the scene as a whole in one way or another. Playing in PC bangs in Seoul for a game called Kart-Rider, dabbling in the Tekken scene and attending a few LANs as a spectator, playing CoD with a few friends and playing in a few online cups, and I'm even as courageous to say I was apart of Mayhem Makerz in a little game I call Runescape, although not e-sports related, that's my most shameless achievement. Why? The nostalgia I have embedded in my memory from the 7 years I played that game, ultimately quitting in 2006 after being scammed. Anyways, after striking a deal with my grandpa to help him with computer-related nonsense, I obtained Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare in early 2008, a few months after its release. My "e-sports career" was well and alive, but my actual "e-sports job career" if you can classify it as that, started here. As I started to play CoD4, I was still a pretty newby player at FPS games, only dabbling in classics like Quake for a few days here and there, and purchasing CoD2 for the Xbox a while back to play with a few friends when they came over. I never really had the "PC e-sports" concept in my mind, and always thought e-sports was just any game that was electronic. Smart, right? Right. So I began to play loads of hours each day, pubbing and whatever, and being the fanboy that we all were at one point in time, I wanted to join ButtonBashers after seeing 9 Lives (a fragmovie, for those of you that never have looked into the CoD/CoD4 scene at all). My fascination grew with these organized teams and whatnot in the game, seeing them win thousands of dollars at LANs across Europe and the rest of the world. It was made to be, I thought -- I was going to join ButtonBashers and become the best FPS player in the world. I did end up joining ButtonBashers, but I wasn't in the team department, and contrary to popular belief I wasn't the best FPS player in the world, sadly. Apologies for being a Scrooge. Happy Holidays to TeamLiquid and everyone else. FOR ESPORTS!
... o_O Your opinions are always a joy to read.
Let me explain:
a) For a 19 year old to claim he has been in 'esports' for a decade is hyperbole to the craziest degree.
b) Going to pc bangs, attending some LANs as a spectator, is not being involved in esports.
c) Most journalists (i.e. the best ones from the most famous teams) will get something like ... $250 / month... Journalists at news places such as TL.net , ESFI, etc, don't get paid at all...
d) To randomly expect things like this, then say that you get screwed over when your unrealistic expectations aren't met is bogus.
Only in this industry can someone without a degree, or any real experience or skills attempt to call it a scam that he's not getting paid.
Work hard, show that you have a valuable skill that is desired by people, then possibly, you'll get paid for your work. That's really the only way to do it in this industry.
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EPT
