EPTDear BW and SC2 fans - Page 3
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
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Grettin
42414 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:05 TBone- wrote: Oh man, you guys should check out the moba community if you want to see a civil war between games Like we haven't read or saw LoL vs Rest of the "moba games" already in this forum. Leave them be but we should at least try not to act like they do. | ||
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Kanil
United States1713 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:05 TBone- wrote: Oh man, you guys should check out the moba community if you want to see a civil war between games Nothing wrong with not aspiring to be like them. Thank you, Konadora. I don't dare hope that anyone will listen, but maybe if we say it enough times the message might get across... | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On November 01 2011 00:10 konadora wrote: See, we're not that much different, actually. I may like macaroni, you may like spaghetti, but in the end, it's all pasta. not really. if BW dies, i'm not going to watch SC2 as a replacement. i can find something else to entertain me. i might just eat a hamburger instead of eating of eating spaghetti. imo there's nothing wrong with the fighting. let people get passionate and crazy mad fighting over differences. arguing over the internet never has as big an impact as people like to think. it's fun. it's fun to debate. it's fun to watch two extreme sides get at each other since it's all on the board. i assume that none of the BW vs SC2 fighting has spilled over into live events, and that's because it's not really an issue worth fighting about in real life; it's only fun online. when BW fans start hacking SC2 b.net servers to crash during GSL finals, then it crosses the line. but right now? it's like watching two opposing sports teams's fans go at it. | ||
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
Spagetthi > maccaroni | ||
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Tortious_Tortoise
United States944 Posts
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
It's easy if you tryy.... No flame wars no fanboys All work together as one. Sung to imagine, but really terribly done, so oh well. That's my general sentiment. Although fanboys are ok I guess .. XD | ||
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RageCommodore
Germany912 Posts
As somebody who likes to watch both BW and SC2 (and loves both equally), I find it sickening to see how the whole scene seems to rip itself apart just over the topic of "which do you think is better". For some reasons, those threads are popping up faster and faster, and every SC2/BW discussion (no matter how peaceful it started) ineviteably turns into a flamefest. And the worst thing is that people who are new to the scene can get the impression that the BW and SC2 fans are some sort of arch enemies ._. | ||
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GigaFlop
United States1146 Posts
I think the whole shitfest of what is now on TL has gotten into the bw/sc2 arguments. I for one don't play bw, but I can still sit down and enjoy watching a match if its decent. The thing with not-so-decent sc2 matches that I like are all the pretty colors, whereas I don't see many pretty colors in non-decent bw matches. I think that bw will fade away as time goes on, but so will sc2 after a while. Everything has its time, and I don't think things should be rushed in this case. I also think that part of the whole issue about bw/sc2 shitfests are that the bw fans feel a bit threatened by the sc2 audience. They don't want their esport to be eclipsed by another game, kind of like that Seinfeld episode where Costanza has the Frogger hi-score and wants to do everything he can to preserve it, even if it means attaching a car battery to the damn machine and trying to wheel it across an open road. The fans of bw(Costanza) are what is keeping bw(frogger hiscore) alive, as far as I can tell. But there's no reason bw and sc2 fans should hate each other. We should all be a happy family. A family of elitist forum-goers who play very similar games and congregate in the same place on the internet. | ||
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
Hopefully your message will reach to the masses and ease the moderators' job in the future. | ||
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GreenManalishi
Canada834 Posts
I love BW. I used to watch almost 100% of the matches, and when KT or Flash did poorly, that would effect my mood for days, possibly weeks. Hell, I am still bitter about the power outage. I dislike SC2 because I feel like it has forced me to watch it. The entire foreign BW community disappeared when SC2 came out. I used to love watching Idra, Nony, BratOK, Ret, etc. play in foreign tournaments. I used to love listening to Tasteless and Superdanielman commentate GomTV, and I used to love watching the old Day9 dailies. Now, if I want to keep following the personalities I like, I have to watch a game I don't, so I am now relegated to watching a game that is on at 4:00am, and which none of my friends play anymore. All of my friends immediately jumped from BW to SC2, and when I used to play 1 or 2 hours of BW with them a day, now I have to play SC2, which I just don't enjoy as much. It isn't that I dislike the game, but it really doesn't feel the same. There is no army retention, everything just dies, there are no 'safe builds' because cheese is 10x stronger, and being a high APM macro player, I feel like my skills are just not being utilized as they were. So I don't hate SC2, I just miss BW. I don't hate the SC2 community, I miss the old BW community. Watching a game that was an absolute masterpiece, that has taken me years to be able to watch and properly understand, to see it slowly become irrelevant and marginalized is not pleasant. Edit: I guess to make this relevant to the topic. I too prefer macaroni, but it seems most people now prefer spaghetti, and macaroni keeps getting bumped off of the menu. | ||
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antilyon
Brazil2546 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:57 GreenManalishi wrote: I haven't really argued on the merits of either game yet, but I would think that a lot of the BW bitterness towards SC2 is similar to the frustration I feel towards that game. I love BW. I used to watch almost 100% of the matches, and when KT or Flash did poorly, that would effect my mood for days, possibly weeks. Hell, I am still bitter about the power outage. I dislike SC2 because I feel like it has forced me to watch it. The entire foreign BW community disappeared when SC2 came out. I used to love watching Idra, Nony, BratOK, Ret, etc. play in foreign tournaments. I used to love listening to Tasteless and Superdanielman commentate GomTV, and I used to love watching the old Day9 dailies. Now, if I want to keep following the personalities I like, I have to watch a game I don't, so I am now relegated to watching a game that is on at 4:00am, and which none of my friends play anymore. All of my friends immediately jumped from BW to SC2, and when I used to play 1 or 2 hours of BW with them a day, now I have to play SC2, which I just don't enjoy as much. It isn't that I dislike the game, but it really doesn't feel the same. There is no army retention, everything just dies, there are no 'safe builds' because cheese is 10x stronger, and being a high APM macro player, I feel like my skills are just not being utilized as they were. So I don't hate SC2, I just miss BW. I don't hate the SC2 community, I miss the old BW community. Watching a game that was an absolute masterpiece, that has taken me years to be able to watch and properly understand, to see it slowly become irrelevant and marginalized is not pleasant. No, you stop it and stop it right now. Your post made me sad bro, really sad. | ||
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looknohands119
United States815 Posts
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babylon
8765 Posts
... ... Joking.  Make love, not war! And TL is already so much better than the SK forums, rofl. Back in the day, I think every other thread was like a huge argument about whether the best player in War3 was Moon and Grubby. Got old so fucking fast, man. Kind of like SC2 vs. BW.Good message, 5/5. | ||
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keiraknightlee
United States301 Posts
 :I'm not saying that BW is a better game than SC2 or CoD or anything like that. Every game has it fans, both hardcore and casual. But it's wrong for a SC2 fan to tell a BW fan that "BW is dead", or "stop living in the past", or "bad graphics, bad unit pathing", whatever it may be. It's just as wrong for a BW fan to say to a SC2 fan that they are "noobs" or like the "shiny new toy" or that they "just don't understand". The trouble comes from SC2 hogging the spotlight most of the time, which leads to SC2 fans pushing their views on BW fans, and BW fans reacting by acting stuck up. These two games can coexist, only Blizzard wants to phase out BW | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:57 GreenManalishi wrote: I don't hate SC2, I just miss BW. I don't hate the SC2 community, I miss the old BW community. It's all a bunch of bickering and this here is all that I think most BW fans care about. | ||
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ironchef
Canada1350 Posts
I will not sacrifice Team Liquid. We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our site, we fall back. They assimilate entire proteams, and we fall back. Not again, the line must be drawn here! This far, no farther! I... will... make them play(broodwar) for what they've done. + Show Spoiler +  The problem is not really about fans of BW or SC2. It's more about having common sense and not being obnoxious. | ||
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AeonStrife
United States918 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/State/Flash2.png) | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
Sadly, most people bashing it have never bothered to even look at a bw game, they just do it because they are idiots. I challenge anyone to watch jangbi vs fantasy (i know, im a scrub for not knowing better games >.<) and not getting excited as fuck, wether or not you prefer shinier graphics. | ||
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silverhand
United States91 Posts
There were no rally points, no queued units, no control groups and maps could be wide open and still be balanced for both orcs or humans. SC chose to go a completely different route as far as the strategy part of the game went. Early in Beta, balance was a mess. If it wasn't for the allure of B.Net integrating a ladder system into the game (war2 required you to report matches to a 3rd party website) and the hacking of war2 that was going on at that moment in time, most of the top war2 players would not have left to play SC. With the exception of a few of the early pros (Tillerman, Agent911, etc...) that stuck with SC due to the PGL using SC as the RTS of choice to try and catapult the esports scene to where it is today, most of the top war2 players left SC to go back to war2 simply because it lacked the elements of strategy and "skill" we were used to. We were able to go back to playing war2 because the hackers eventually turned to messing with SC shortly after its release. SC killed war2. It was never the same after SC was released. Sure, we had fun playing it for the first year SC was around, but drifting support from websites that were catering to the SC crowd, cool graphics and a more user-friendly interface from SC resulted in one of two fates for war2 players: Find a new game to play or give in to SC. War2 fought death up until the release of BW, where even though Blizzard released a B.net version in an attempt to garner a few more $$$ out of the dying game, it still was not enough to extend its life-cycle. Those who did not play SC longed for War3 to come out so they could relive the battles of Orcs vs. Humans. That dream was crushed when War3 was released as they eliminated key aspects of what made war2 as great as it was - Heroes added an element that placed too much power in a battle in the hands of a single unit. I see that same mistake being made to a lesser degree with SC2 (colossus, infestors, ghosts just some examples depending on matchups); the removal of naval battles was more blasphemous to war2 players than the omission of lurkers and the prevalence of maxed out deathball armies in SC2 is to BW players. I gave War3 a chance and it just didn't do anything for me as a former war2 player. I know people that never played war2 and think war3 is the best RTS ever. I can respect that opinion because they look at the game through a different paradigm. I guess I can look at SC2 in the same way because I never really got that involved in BW. SC2 is a lot of fun for me. It still does not give me the same experience that war2 did. Nothing will strike fear in your heart more than hearing bloodlust being cast on a group of ogres outside your expansion. Nothing was more fun than polymorphing an entire group of bloodlusted ogres before they could hit your base. And nothing was more hilarious than sending hasted, invisible peons to mine out your opponents expansion without him knowing. With that said, I can completely understand where BW players are coming from right now. Blizzard has done the same thing to BW that it did to War2. The sequel people hoped would build on BW's success is instead a very different game with a simpler user-interface, a different feel to battles and balance in general, and an appeal to the less-skilled (or shall we say casual) gamer. As the money shifts to SC2, the players will either move to SC2 or start searching for a different game if there is no more money to keep the BW esports scene alive. My advice to BW players: keep your game alive as long as you can because once it's dead, nothing ever rarely fills the void that is left. Sure, you'll find games to have fun with, but it will never be as epic as BW was for you. With all that said, I have been watching some BW lately because I completely skipped that part of the series due to my frustration with SC1 being so different from war2. I've been curious what makes BW and SC2 so different in the same way war2 and war3 were. I'm sure after watching hours of matches I'll eventually figure it out, but with as little time as I have to dedicate to gaming these days, it'd be nice to have a well-thought-out and unbiased comparison of the two games as to the good and bad in both of them. Too bad it is way too difficult to get some answers to the questions I have regarding BW because I have to wade through pages of a bunch of monkeys flinging poo at each other. It's a shame because I think I've seen more interest from Blizzard (even though they may fail to get it right more often than not and may take forever in getting to the obvious fix) in balancing the game based on professional influence than with any other game. | ||
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