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All-in vs Cheese vs Strategic Play - Page 2

Blogs > LuckyFool
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Prev 1 2 All
chomsky
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada97 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-30 00:07:22
October 30 2011 00:06 GMT
#21
Lol I remember meeting you in a useast obs game yearrrrrrs ago, you did a crazy +1 armour marine all in tvp and went on to lose a long game.

Luckyfool: this is why I always try to push the issue early
Luckyfool:
Luckyfool: gg
"Not to take this post too seriously, but..." -Chef
jimminy_kriket
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada5501 Posts
October 30 2011 00:27 GMT
#22
sounds like he was messing around if he went +1 armour marine rush..
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
chomsky
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada97 Posts
October 30 2011 00:40 GMT
#23
Who messes around in a useast obs game??????
"Not to take this post too seriously, but..." -Chef
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-30 00:48:35
October 30 2011 00:47 GMT
#24
after mlg providence I actually plan to practice bw for a couple weeks in order to play a grudge/show match vs caucasianasian(TL Staff/bw player) so you guys better be on the lookout for that !!

we're doing it a little after providence so I have time to actually practice some. I'm scared though...bw is so hard. T_T
MaRiNe23
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States747 Posts
October 30 2011 00:53 GMT
#25
On October 30 2011 09:47 LuckyFool wrote:
after mlg providence I actually plan to practice bw for a couple weeks in order to play a grudge/show match vs caucasianasian(TL Staff/bw player) so you guys better be on the lookout for that !!

we're doing it a little after providence so I have time to actually practice some. I'm scared though...bw is so hard. T_T

It's not that hard
We have competitive ladder, strong community, progaming in Korea going strong, perfectly balanced game..why do we need sc2? #1 ANTI-SC2 fan
hooktits
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States972 Posts
October 30 2011 01:13 GMT
#26
Nice blog son... I <3 luckyfou 5/5
Hooktits of Tits gaming @hooktits twit
Ecrilon
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
501 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-30 01:19:40
October 30 2011 01:18 GMT
#27
If you are a pro and your opponent is a pro and both of you have full map vision, a build that cannot win is cheese.

A build where you need to kill something to break even instead of being able to stay somewhere (like the natural) and simply contain is all in.

I don't know what strategic play is. I always assumed it was just what the Koreans called the two things above.
There is but one truth.
Louuster
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2869 Posts
October 30 2011 01:19 GMT
#28
I think this is partially why very hyped finals between two players who know each other well can be so disappointing. Think of all the JD vs Flash finals and how many of those have one trying to cheese the other. Theyre just playing each other on a mental level which is harder to appreciate for viewers.



Look at something like this. It is clearly an all-in by JD, but done in response to the 14 cc he scouted. Im curious what people think of this game.
Kim Taek Yong fighting~
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
October 30 2011 01:33 GMT
#29
Lol, those screenshots are ridiculous.

skatbone
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1005 Posts
October 30 2011 02:00 GMT
#30
Nice read. I like that you are complicating what has come to be a highly subjective, yet widely-used term.

Imo, people need a word to express that element in SCII that is exploitable...that thing that has little to do with skill. And here, you note that certain "all-ins" do have follow-up plans (hence, they're not all-in in a pure sense). And you also note the grey area where a player might be all-inning due to something he has scouted. In general, playing at a lowly diamond level, I tend to see my opponents practicing mindless all-ins. But I have no proof of this.

tl;dr I think there are various motivations and various levels of skill and planning that go into the various build and strats that people call "all-in." I don't think there is any resolution to this ambiguity; however, I don't think the frustrations will end.

At the end of the day, we all have been beaten by players who seem to lack skill--and there is something about SCII (be it easy mechanics, or difficulty of scouting) that allows for the less-skilled to exploit the more skilled for wins. Call it what you will. For now, we call it an "all-in."
Mercurial#1193
courtpanda
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
866 Posts
October 30 2011 06:02 GMT
#31
whats the difference between, say, a "2 base push", "2 base timing attack" and a "2 base all in"?
SpoR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1542 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-30 06:32:58
October 30 2011 06:31 GMT
#32
On October 30 2011 15:02 alexlw92 wrote:
whats the difference between, say, a "2 base push", "2 base timing attack" and a "2 base all in"?

a push is undefined really, everyone just throws the term around now for anything. Being a guy from BW, A 2 base push has always been a slow progression across the map towards your opponent (such as Tank/turret/mine pushing in TvP). But these days people seem to be using it mostly as a term that SF players call a poke. It's just an attack or fake attack that is used to keep the opponent on their toes or kill them if they skimped on units/defenses.
2 base timing and 2 base all in are pretty much synonymous imho, The minor difference arguable is that the all in is an uneducated attack such as 'the destiny build' in ZvZ. By uneducated, I mean that they go into the matchup with the mentality of doing the all in build regardless of what they scout or see the opponent do. And in fact, with the Destiny build, he actually advocated no need for scouting, and cited the build being super gay because its all ZvZ is and everyone was doin it.

A 2 base timing then would obviously be the same or similar build adapted to the opponents build's weakness to strike and kill them right on the timing when they are weakest.
A man is what he thinks about all day long.
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