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On October 19 2011 00:30 aimless wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 00:20 Djzapz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 19 2011 00:03 Vul wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 23:51 Djzapz wrote:On October 18 2011 23:45 Ryalnos wrote:On October 18 2011 23:24 Hawk wrote:On October 18 2011 22:54 Cascade wrote:Well, all these kinds of protests are about getting attention/raising awareness or whatever you want to call, rather than actually providing a proper argument. And in that she seems to be doing a good job, seeing how you made a thread about it.  I guess you and most of the 228 viewers of this blog at some point spent at least a few seconds considering where they stand in the abortion question. Which was exactly what she wanted.  ding ding ding Now as stupid as her stance is on the matter (free choice!), if she really wanted to go do something that's gonna catch everyone's eye and make a scene, she and her buddies should have bought a whole bunch of baby dolls, threw them in a big garbage can and left it in the most highly trafficked intersection in the school with the website stickers all over the can. Instant publicity. Damn amateurs. I should just become a protest organizer. I know how to make a scene. Her stance on the matter is not 'stupid', don't be an idiot. It is a reasonable conclusion from a different set of initial assumptions and priorities. Owning slaves is a good idea if the priority is making money. Reasonable conclusions are not so great when the premises are disgusting. Keep in mind though that you hold your beliefs about slavery because "certain initial assumptions and priorities" have also changed, over time, in the culture in which you live. In a different era, your conclusion about slavery would also not be reasonable in the same way, because people's assumptions about what equality means did not extend to minorities. I'm aware. I have absolutely no contempt for Aristotle even though he wasn't bothered by slavery at the time. It was perfectly normal back then. I guess I wouldn't call the girl stupid for being an "activist" against abortion... I would definitely say, however, that she's of questionable morality. I question the morality of basically everyone who are arguing that a mass of biological stuff which we can produce absurdly easily should be looked at in high regard simply because of a borderline religious admiration for said biomass.Obviously, none of us (provided we're sane) are like "yay abortion is awesome". It's an unfortunate reality, but thanks science for this procedure which helps women - people with actual emotions, who perhaps have been trying to cope with having been raped 9 months before... What? It's not a "mass of biological stuff". Abortion happens after conception. It's the start of a new organism's life cycle. And that isn't a religious concept, that's basic science. How you feel about killing the organism at that point is your business, but I don't think you should question her morality on skewed assumptions about religion.
Here's a little rundown. I'm a mass of biological stuff. Sperm is alive.
The religious concept is not the science part, the religious part is the irrational "love" for said biological stuff which has no value.
You conveniently completely misinterpreted my post. (By mistake perhaps, or on purpose.)
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On October 19 2011 00:32 Boonbag wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 19 2011 00:30 aimless wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 00:20 Djzapz wrote:On October 19 2011 00:03 Vul wrote:On October 18 2011 23:51 Djzapz wrote:On October 18 2011 23:45 Ryalnos wrote:On October 18 2011 23:24 Hawk wrote:On October 18 2011 22:54 Cascade wrote:Well, all these kinds of protests are about getting attention/raising awareness or whatever you want to call, rather than actually providing a proper argument. And in that she seems to be doing a good job, seeing how you made a thread about it. I guess you and most of the 228 viewers of this blog at some point spent at least a few seconds considering where they stand in the abortion question. Which was exactly what she wanted. ding ding ding Now as stupid as her stance is on the matter (free choice!), if she really wanted to go do something that's gonna catch everyone's eye and make a scene, she and her buddies should have bought a whole bunch of baby dolls, threw them in a big garbage can and left it in the most highly trafficked intersection in the school with the website stickers all over the can. Instant publicity. Damn amateurs. I should just become a protest organizer. I know how to make a scene. Her stance on the matter is not 'stupid', don't be an idiot. It is a reasonable conclusion from a different set of initial assumptions and priorities. Owning slaves is a good idea if the priority is making money. Reasonable conclusions are not so great when the premises are disgusting. Keep in mind though that you hold your beliefs about slavery because "certain initial assumptions and priorities" have also changed, over time, in the culture in which you live. In a different era, your conclusion about slavery would also not be reasonable in the same way, because people's assumptions about what equality means did not extend to minorities. I'm aware. I have absolutely no contempt for Aristotle even though he wasn't bothered by slavery at the time. It was perfectly normal back then. I guess I wouldn't call the girl stupid for being an "activist" against abortion... I would definitely say, however, that she's of questionable morality. I question the morality of basically everyone who are arguing that a mass of biological stuff which we can produce absurdly easily should be looked at in high regard simply because of a borderline religious admiration for said biomass.Obviously, none of us (provided we're sane) are like "yay abortion is awesome". It's an unfortunate reality, but thanks science for this procedure which helps women - people with actual emotions, who perhaps have been trying to cope with having been raped 9 months before... What? It's not a "mass of biological stuff". Abortion happens after conception. It's the start of a new organism's life cycle. And that isn't a religious concept, that's basic science. How you feel about killing the organism at that point is your business, but I don't think you should question her morality on skewed assumptions about religion. Bacterias also do have a life cycle.
Yes. Yes they do. I'm not sure where you're going with that. Because I don't think anyone questions the morality of killing bacteria. Bacteria don't grow into people, so having a different moral stance on them isn't necessarily wrong.
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On October 19 2011 00:30 aimless wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 00:20 Djzapz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 19 2011 00:03 Vul wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 23:51 Djzapz wrote:On October 18 2011 23:45 Ryalnos wrote:On October 18 2011 23:24 Hawk wrote:On October 18 2011 22:54 Cascade wrote:Well, all these kinds of protests are about getting attention/raising awareness or whatever you want to call, rather than actually providing a proper argument. And in that she seems to be doing a good job, seeing how you made a thread about it. I guess you and most of the 228 viewers of this blog at some point spent at least a few seconds considering where they stand in the abortion question. Which was exactly what she wanted. ding ding ding Now as stupid as her stance is on the matter (free choice!), if she really wanted to go do something that's gonna catch everyone's eye and make a scene, she and her buddies should have bought a whole bunch of baby dolls, threw them in a big garbage can and left it in the most highly trafficked intersection in the school with the website stickers all over the can. Instant publicity. Damn amateurs. I should just become a protest organizer. I know how to make a scene. Her stance on the matter is not 'stupid', don't be an idiot. It is a reasonable conclusion from a different set of initial assumptions and priorities. Owning slaves is a good idea if the priority is making money. Reasonable conclusions are not so great when the premises are disgusting. Keep in mind though that you hold your beliefs about slavery because "certain initial assumptions and priorities" have also changed, over time, in the culture in which you live. In a different era, your conclusion about slavery would also not be reasonable in the same way, because people's assumptions about what equality means did not extend to minorities. I'm aware. I have absolutely no contempt for Aristotle even though he wasn't bothered by slavery at the time. It was perfectly normal back then. I guess I wouldn't call the girl stupid for being an "activist" against abortion... I would definitely say, however, that she's of questionable morality. I question the morality of basically everyone who are arguing that a mass of biological stuff which we can produce absurdly easily should be looked at in high regard simply because of a borderline religious admiration for said biomass.Obviously, none of us (provided we're sane) are like "yay abortion is awesome". It's an unfortunate reality, but thanks science for this procedure which helps women - people with actual emotions, who perhaps have been trying to cope with having been raped 9 months before... What? It's not a "mass of biological stuff". Abortion happens after conception. It's the start of a new organism's life cycle. And that isn't a religious concept, that's basic science. How you feel about killing the organism at that point is your business, but I don't think you should question her morality on skewed assumptions about religion.
Technically, we're all "a mass of biological stuff". That's basic science, too.
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On October 19 2011 00:36 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 00:30 aimless wrote:On October 19 2011 00:20 Djzapz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 19 2011 00:03 Vul wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 23:51 Djzapz wrote:On October 18 2011 23:45 Ryalnos wrote:On October 18 2011 23:24 Hawk wrote:On October 18 2011 22:54 Cascade wrote:Well, all these kinds of protests are about getting attention/raising awareness or whatever you want to call, rather than actually providing a proper argument. And in that she seems to be doing a good job, seeing how you made a thread about it. I guess you and most of the 228 viewers of this blog at some point spent at least a few seconds considering where they stand in the abortion question. Which was exactly what she wanted. ding ding ding Now as stupid as her stance is on the matter (free choice!), if she really wanted to go do something that's gonna catch everyone's eye and make a scene, she and her buddies should have bought a whole bunch of baby dolls, threw them in a big garbage can and left it in the most highly trafficked intersection in the school with the website stickers all over the can. Instant publicity. Damn amateurs. I should just become a protest organizer. I know how to make a scene. Her stance on the matter is not 'stupid', don't be an idiot. It is a reasonable conclusion from a different set of initial assumptions and priorities. Owning slaves is a good idea if the priority is making money. Reasonable conclusions are not so great when the premises are disgusting. Keep in mind though that you hold your beliefs about slavery because "certain initial assumptions and priorities" have also changed, over time, in the culture in which you live. In a different era, your conclusion about slavery would also not be reasonable in the same way, because people's assumptions about what equality means did not extend to minorities. I'm aware. I have absolutely no contempt for Aristotle even though he wasn't bothered by slavery at the time. It was perfectly normal back then. I guess I wouldn't call the girl stupid for being an "activist" against abortion... I would definitely say, however, that she's of questionable morality. I question the morality of basically everyone who are arguing that a mass of biological stuff which we can produce absurdly easily should be looked at in high regard simply because of a borderline religious admiration for said biomass.Obviously, none of us (provided we're sane) are like "yay abortion is awesome". It's an unfortunate reality, but thanks science for this procedure which helps women - people with actual emotions, who perhaps have been trying to cope with having been raped 9 months before... What? It's not a "mass of biological stuff". Abortion happens after conception. It's the start of a new organism's life cycle. And that isn't a religious concept, that's basic science. How you feel about killing the organism at that point is your business, but I don't think you should question her morality on skewed assumptions about religion. Here's a little rundown. I'm a mass of biological stuff. Sperm is life. The religious concept is not the science part, the religious part is the irrational "love" for said biological stuff which has no value. You conveniently completely misinterpreted my post. (By mistake perhaps, or on purpose.)
Yeah, it has no value to you doesn't mean it doesn't have any value to anyone else. A woman who is pregnant will usually feel an attachment to that lump of cells even if you just want her to get rid of it.
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That's right guys! Someone is trying to make a difference; let's make fun of them! Hahahaha, someone doesn't just think of how comfortable they can be all day long and is thinking of someone other than themselves, what a moron!
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On October 19 2011 00:35 unichan wrote:
I hate this argument lol, other people have differing opinions on when life starts - just because the mass of cells can't feel or think or anything doesn't mean it's not alive to some people ~_~. Personally I changed my stance to neutral on this issue to avoid the shitstorm, but if you're a pro lifer on TL (or anywhere on the internet, really) you're going to have a hard time. Political discussions on the internet are dumb imo because the discussions will usually be 95% liberal
I don't know why everyone thinks the girl wearing duct tape on her mouth is stupid, she's doing something for a cause that she cares about. Even if you don't think it's effective, this thread proves that it is. It's like someone wearing an ugly jacket - if you don't like it, ignore it. It's not going to interfere with your life unless you let it.
Edit: Also I know plenty of athiest pro-lifers, it's not just some religious thing
No, it doesn't. I proves that people have opinions and it makes people think about their stance on the subject. It does not get HER point across, though. Unless she tells everyone the context (as in she silences her voice, because so many babies have had their voice silence by being aborted) it doesn't do anything to convice anyone about pro-life, all it does is stir up discussion.
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On October 19 2011 00:38 danl9rm wrote:
That's right guys! Someone is trying to make a difference; let's make fun of them! Hahahaha, someone doesn't just think of how comfortable they can be all day long and is thinking of someone other than themselves, what a moron!
Here's a list of people who are trying to make a difference:
-Westboro Baptist Church
Case and point.
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On October 19 2011 00:36 aimless wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 00:32 Boonbag wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 19 2011 00:30 aimless wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 00:20 Djzapz wrote:On October 19 2011 00:03 Vul wrote:On October 18 2011 23:51 Djzapz wrote:On October 18 2011 23:45 Ryalnos wrote:On October 18 2011 23:24 Hawk wrote:On October 18 2011 22:54 Cascade wrote:Well, all these kinds of protests are about getting attention/raising awareness or whatever you want to call, rather than actually providing a proper argument. And in that she seems to be doing a good job, seeing how you made a thread about it. I guess you and most of the 228 viewers of this blog at some point spent at least a few seconds considering where they stand in the abortion question. Which was exactly what she wanted. ding ding ding Now as stupid as her stance is on the matter (free choice!), if she really wanted to go do something that's gonna catch everyone's eye and make a scene, she and her buddies should have bought a whole bunch of baby dolls, threw them in a big garbage can and left it in the most highly trafficked intersection in the school with the website stickers all over the can. Instant publicity. Damn amateurs. I should just become a protest organizer. I know how to make a scene. Her stance on the matter is not 'stupid', don't be an idiot. It is a reasonable conclusion from a different set of initial assumptions and priorities. Owning slaves is a good idea if the priority is making money. Reasonable conclusions are not so great when the premises are disgusting. Keep in mind though that you hold your beliefs about slavery because "certain initial assumptions and priorities" have also changed, over time, in the culture in which you live. In a different era, your conclusion about slavery would also not be reasonable in the same way, because people's assumptions about what equality means did not extend to minorities. I'm aware. I have absolutely no contempt for Aristotle even though he wasn't bothered by slavery at the time. It was perfectly normal back then. I guess I wouldn't call the girl stupid for being an "activist" against abortion... I would definitely say, however, that she's of questionable morality. I question the morality of basically everyone who are arguing that a mass of biological stuff which we can produce absurdly easily should be looked at in high regard simply because of a borderline religious admiration for said biomass.Obviously, none of us (provided we're sane) are like "yay abortion is awesome". It's an unfortunate reality, but thanks science for this procedure which helps women - people with actual emotions, who perhaps have been trying to cope with having been raped 9 months before... What? It's not a "mass of biological stuff". Abortion happens after conception. It's the start of a new organism's life cycle. And that isn't a religious concept, that's basic science. How you feel about killing the organism at that point is your business, but I don't think you should question her morality on skewed assumptions about religion. Bacterias also do have a life cycle. Yes. Yes they do. I'm not sure where you're going with that. Because I don't think anyone questions the morality of killing bacteria. Bacteria don't grow into people, so having a different moral stance on them isn't necessarily wrong.
you're actually wrong
we grew out from bacterias long long ago
concepts attached the word "life" are as diverse as the world is
it's actually fun to notice that most common people that are pro life are usually religious bigots and also for the death penalty
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On October 19 2011 00:38 danl9rm wrote:
That's right guys! Someone is trying to make a difference; let's make fun of them! Hahahaha, someone doesn't just think of how comfortable they can be all day long and is thinking of someone other than themselves, what a moron!
YEAH! Awesome, she doesn't think of herself, but tells others what to do instead!. Such a nice person!
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A thread about an abortion protest turns into an abortion debate.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED 
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On October 19 2011 00:30 aimless wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 00:20 Djzapz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 19 2011 00:03 Vul wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 23:51 Djzapz wrote:On October 18 2011 23:45 Ryalnos wrote:On October 18 2011 23:24 Hawk wrote:On October 18 2011 22:54 Cascade wrote:Well, all these kinds of protests are about getting attention/raising awareness or whatever you want to call, rather than actually providing a proper argument. And in that she seems to be doing a good job, seeing how you made a thread about it. I guess you and most of the 228 viewers of this blog at some point spent at least a few seconds considering where they stand in the abortion question. Which was exactly what she wanted. ding ding ding Now as stupid as her stance is on the matter (free choice!), if she really wanted to go do something that's gonna catch everyone's eye and make a scene, she and her buddies should have bought a whole bunch of baby dolls, threw them in a big garbage can and left it in the most highly trafficked intersection in the school with the website stickers all over the can. Instant publicity. Damn amateurs. I should just become a protest organizer. I know how to make a scene. Her stance on the matter is not 'stupid', don't be an idiot. It is a reasonable conclusion from a different set of initial assumptions and priorities. Owning slaves is a good idea if the priority is making money. Reasonable conclusions are not so great when the premises are disgusting. Keep in mind though that you hold your beliefs about slavery because "certain initial assumptions and priorities" have also changed, over time, in the culture in which you live. In a different era, your conclusion about slavery would also not be reasonable in the same way, because people's assumptions about what equality means did not extend to minorities. I'm aware. I have absolutely no contempt for Aristotle even though he wasn't bothered by slavery at the time. It was perfectly normal back then. I guess I wouldn't call the girl stupid for being an "activist" against abortion... I would definitely say, however, that she's of questionable morality. I question the morality of basically everyone who are arguing that a mass of biological stuff which we can produce absurdly easily should be looked at in high regard simply because of a borderline religious admiration for said biomass.Obviously, none of us (provided we're sane) are like "yay abortion is awesome". It's an unfortunate reality, but thanks science for this procedure which helps women - people with actual emotions, who perhaps have been trying to cope with having been raped 9 months before... What? It's not a "mass of biological stuff". Abortion happens after conception. It's the start of a new organism's life cycle. And that isn't a religious concept, that's basic science. How you feel about killing the organism at that point is your business, but I don't think you should question her morality on skewed assumptions about religion.
rofl I agree with this quite a bit. However, again not based on Religion but I feel that people need to take some accountability for their own shit. Yes CERTAIN cases need to be looked into extremely carefully but you know what? Fuck Pro-Choice. I honestly don't believe 99% of the population can make an educated decision on what to eat for breakfast in North America let alone this. I think it should be heavily government regulated. Adoption for the children after the morons who couldn't keep the rubber on deal with the "mistake" they made.
Rape ect. is a completely different situation. I believe that should be left up to the individual but have it monitored by the government. People hear government and they think some guy who represents a lawyer. I'm thinking more like Child Services (although even they suck to deal with)
Maybe I'm just jaded but imo let the fkin dumb people waste 9 months of their lives and actually have to face the consequences instead of having a way out. I know it costs money QQ that's not what my point is and I'm not debating it. lol And honest to God, if you get pregnant and you are on the pill / guy was wearing a rubber. That might honestly be a sign to actually have the kid. cmon, with those odds the kid might win the lottery lol.
+ Show Spoiler +Moral of the story is that I think people are dumb and shouldn't get to decide for themselves. Basically. In a nut shell. Yup. Have exceptions I don't give a damn lol
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On October 19 2011 00:40 RubiksCube wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 00:35 unichan wrote:
I hate this argument lol, other people have differing opinions on when life starts - just because the mass of cells can't feel or think or anything doesn't mean it's not alive to some people ~_~. Personally I changed my stance to neutral on this issue to avoid the shitstorm, but if you're a pro lifer on TL (or anywhere on the internet, really) you're going to have a hard time. Political discussions on the internet are dumb imo because the discussions will usually be 95% liberal
I don't know why everyone thinks the girl wearing duct tape on her mouth is stupid, she's doing something for a cause that she cares about. Even if you don't think it's effective, this thread proves that it is. It's like someone wearing an ugly jacket - if you don't like it, ignore it. It's not going to interfere with your life unless you let it.
Edit: Also I know plenty of athiest pro-lifers, it's not just some religious thing No, it doesn't. I proves that people have opinions and it makes people think about their stance on the subject. It does not get HER point across, though. Unless she tells everyone the context (as in she silences her voice, because so many babies have had their voice silence by being aborted) it doesn't do anything to convice anyone about pro-life, all it does is stir up discussion.
Yeah, it stirred up discussion on a site of male liberals so obviously no one is going to be turned to her point of view - but what if it started discussion somewhere else where there wasn't as obvious of a bias?
My point is, lay off the poor girl, she isn't doing anything wrong. Talking about abortion rights on a site of male liberals is completely pointless and is just going to cause a bunch of guys reinforcing each others views and patting each other on the back and collectively jumping on and tearing apart anyone who comes in with an opposing view.
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On October 19 2011 00:44 unichan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 00:40 RubiksCube wrote:On October 19 2011 00:35 unichan wrote:
I hate this argument lol, other people have differing opinions on when life starts - just because the mass of cells can't feel or think or anything doesn't mean it's not alive to some people ~_~. Personally I changed my stance to neutral on this issue to avoid the shitstorm, but if you're a pro lifer on TL (or anywhere on the internet, really) you're going to have a hard time. Political discussions on the internet are dumb imo because the discussions will usually be 95% liberal
I don't know why everyone thinks the girl wearing duct tape on her mouth is stupid, she's doing something for a cause that she cares about. Even if you don't think it's effective, this thread proves that it is. It's like someone wearing an ugly jacket - if you don't like it, ignore it. It's not going to interfere with your life unless you let it.
Edit: Also I know plenty of athiest pro-lifers, it's not just some religious thing No, it doesn't. I proves that people have opinions and it makes people think about their stance on the subject. It does not get HER point across, though. Unless she tells everyone the context (as in she silences her voice, because so many babies have had their voice silence by being aborted) it doesn't do anything to convice anyone about pro-life, all it does is stir up discussion. Yeah, it stirred up discussion on a site of male liberals so obviously no one is going to be turned to her point of view - but what if it started discussion somewhere else where there wasn't as obvious of a bias? My point is, lay off the poor girl, she isn't doing anything wrong. Talking about abortion rights on a site of male liberals is completely pointless and is just going to cause a bunch of guys reinforcing each others views and patting each other on the back and collectively jumping on and tearing apart anyone who comes in with an opposing view.
what the fuck ? you actually know generations of women fought to get this right ?
ofc what she is doing is wrong
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On October 19 2011 00:36 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 00:30 aimless wrote:On October 19 2011 00:20 Djzapz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 19 2011 00:03 Vul wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 23:51 Djzapz wrote:On October 18 2011 23:45 Ryalnos wrote:On October 18 2011 23:24 Hawk wrote:On October 18 2011 22:54 Cascade wrote:Well, all these kinds of protests are about getting attention/raising awareness or whatever you want to call, rather than actually providing a proper argument. And in that she seems to be doing a good job, seeing how you made a thread about it. I guess you and most of the 228 viewers of this blog at some point spent at least a few seconds considering where they stand in the abortion question. Which was exactly what she wanted. ding ding ding Now as stupid as her stance is on the matter (free choice!), if she really wanted to go do something that's gonna catch everyone's eye and make a scene, she and her buddies should have bought a whole bunch of baby dolls, threw them in a big garbage can and left it in the most highly trafficked intersection in the school with the website stickers all over the can. Instant publicity. Damn amateurs. I should just become a protest organizer. I know how to make a scene. Her stance on the matter is not 'stupid', don't be an idiot. It is a reasonable conclusion from a different set of initial assumptions and priorities. Owning slaves is a good idea if the priority is making money. Reasonable conclusions are not so great when the premises are disgusting. Keep in mind though that you hold your beliefs about slavery because "certain initial assumptions and priorities" have also changed, over time, in the culture in which you live. In a different era, your conclusion about slavery would also not be reasonable in the same way, because people's assumptions about what equality means did not extend to minorities. I'm aware. I have absolutely no contempt for Aristotle even though he wasn't bothered by slavery at the time. It was perfectly normal back then. I guess I wouldn't call the girl stupid for being an "activist" against abortion... I would definitely say, however, that she's of questionable morality. I question the morality of basically everyone who are arguing that a mass of biological stuff which we can produce absurdly easily should be looked at in high regard simply because of a borderline religious admiration for said biomass.Obviously, none of us (provided we're sane) are like "yay abortion is awesome". It's an unfortunate reality, but thanks science for this procedure which helps women - people with actual emotions, who perhaps have been trying to cope with having been raped 9 months before... What? It's not a "mass of biological stuff". Abortion happens after conception. It's the start of a new organism's life cycle. And that isn't a religious concept, that's basic science. How you feel about killing the organism at that point is your business, but I don't think you should question her morality on skewed assumptions about religion. Here's a little rundown. I'm a mass of biological stuff. Sperm is life. The religious concept is not the science part, the religious part is the irrational "love" for said biological stuff which has no value. You conveniently completely misinterpreted my post. (By mistake perhaps, or on purpose.)
No, I correctly interpreted everything. I'm saying religion has nothing to do with my statement or this argument.
You are a mass of biological stuff. Your sperm is a mass of the same biological stuff (if you're a guy, obviously).
The difference is that you are also a person and what happens to you matters and moral concerns apply. What happens to your sperm is fairly unimportant. Just like if you lost a patch of skin. Not a moral issue.
The moral issue arises when conception occurs, because that is no longer your sperm. It is the life cycle of a new organism. A fetus is not you, it is a new genetically-different creature. That's what any scientist would say. Like I said before, morality is the question of what that new creature's rights are. We don't need to bring religion into the discussion at all.
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On October 19 2011 00:46 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 00:44 unichan wrote:On October 19 2011 00:40 RubiksCube wrote:On October 19 2011 00:35 unichan wrote:
I hate this argument lol, other people have differing opinions on when life starts - just because the mass of cells can't feel or think or anything doesn't mean it's not alive to some people ~_~. Personally I changed my stance to neutral on this issue to avoid the shitstorm, but if you're a pro lifer on TL (or anywhere on the internet, really) you're going to have a hard time. Political discussions on the internet are dumb imo because the discussions will usually be 95% liberal
I don't know why everyone thinks the girl wearing duct tape on her mouth is stupid, she's doing something for a cause that she cares about. Even if you don't think it's effective, this thread proves that it is. It's like someone wearing an ugly jacket - if you don't like it, ignore it. It's not going to interfere with your life unless you let it.
Edit: Also I know plenty of athiest pro-lifers, it's not just some religious thing No, it doesn't. I proves that people have opinions and it makes people think about their stance on the subject. It does not get HER point across, though. Unless she tells everyone the context (as in she silences her voice, because so many babies have had their voice silence by being aborted) it doesn't do anything to convice anyone about pro-life, all it does is stir up discussion. Yeah, it stirred up discussion on a site of male liberals so obviously no one is going to be turned to her point of view - but what if it started discussion somewhere else where there wasn't as obvious of a bias? My point is, lay off the poor girl, she isn't doing anything wrong. Talking about abortion rights on a site of male liberals is completely pointless and is just going to cause a bunch of guys reinforcing each others views and patting each other on the back and collectively jumping on and tearing apart anyone who comes in with an opposing view. what the fuck ? you actually know generations of women fought to get this right ? ofc what she is doing is wrong
Abortion wasn't fought for by generations of women... do you really not know who Dr. Hovorka is? He's the one who fought for this lol
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On October 19 2011 00:49 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 00:46 Boonbag wrote:On October 19 2011 00:44 unichan wrote:On October 19 2011 00:40 RubiksCube wrote:On October 19 2011 00:35 unichan wrote:
I hate this argument lol, other people have differing opinions on when life starts - just because the mass of cells can't feel or think or anything doesn't mean it's not alive to some people ~_~. Personally I changed my stance to neutral on this issue to avoid the shitstorm, but if you're a pro lifer on TL (or anywhere on the internet, really) you're going to have a hard time. Political discussions on the internet are dumb imo because the discussions will usually be 95% liberal
I don't know why everyone thinks the girl wearing duct tape on her mouth is stupid, she's doing something for a cause that she cares about. Even if you don't think it's effective, this thread proves that it is. It's like someone wearing an ugly jacket - if you don't like it, ignore it. It's not going to interfere with your life unless you let it.
Edit: Also I know plenty of athiest pro-lifers, it's not just some religious thing No, it doesn't. I proves that people have opinions and it makes people think about their stance on the subject. It does not get HER point across, though. Unless she tells everyone the context (as in she silences her voice, because so many babies have had their voice silence by being aborted) it doesn't do anything to convice anyone about pro-life, all it does is stir up discussion. Yeah, it stirred up discussion on a site of male liberals so obviously no one is going to be turned to her point of view - but what if it started discussion somewhere else where there wasn't as obvious of a bias? My point is, lay off the poor girl, she isn't doing anything wrong. Talking about abortion rights on a site of male liberals is completely pointless and is just going to cause a bunch of guys reinforcing each others views and patting each other on the back and collectively jumping on and tearing apart anyone who comes in with an opposing view. what the fuck ? you actually know generations of women fought to get this right ? ofc what she is doing is wrong Abortion wasn't fought for by generations of women... do you really not know who Dr. Hovorka is? He's the one who fought for this lol
Maybe not where you live, but here yes !
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On October 19 2011 00:46 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 00:44 unichan wrote:On October 19 2011 00:40 RubiksCube wrote:On October 19 2011 00:35 unichan wrote:
I hate this argument lol, other people have differing opinions on when life starts - just because the mass of cells can't feel or think or anything doesn't mean it's not alive to some people ~_~. Personally I changed my stance to neutral on this issue to avoid the shitstorm, but if you're a pro lifer on TL (or anywhere on the internet, really) you're going to have a hard time. Political discussions on the internet are dumb imo because the discussions will usually be 95% liberal
I don't know why everyone thinks the girl wearing duct tape on her mouth is stupid, she's doing something for a cause that she cares about. Even if you don't think it's effective, this thread proves that it is. It's like someone wearing an ugly jacket - if you don't like it, ignore it. It's not going to interfere with your life unless you let it.
Edit: Also I know plenty of athiest pro-lifers, it's not just some religious thing No, it doesn't. I proves that people have opinions and it makes people think about their stance on the subject. It does not get HER point across, though. Unless she tells everyone the context (as in she silences her voice, because so many babies have had their voice silence by being aborted) it doesn't do anything to convice anyone about pro-life, all it does is stir up discussion. Yeah, it stirred up discussion on a site of male liberals so obviously no one is going to be turned to her point of view - but what if it started discussion somewhere else where there wasn't as obvious of a bias? My point is, lay off the poor girl, she isn't doing anything wrong. Talking about abortion rights on a site of male liberals is completely pointless and is just going to cause a bunch of guys reinforcing each others views and patting each other on the back and collectively jumping on and tearing apart anyone who comes in with an opposing view. what the fuck ? you actually know generations of women fought to get this right ? ofc what she is doing is wrong
Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are wrong. I'm sure generations of Kim Jong Ils fought for dictatorship or whatever is going on in North Korea too, but I'm not wrong because I don't support that.
Anyways I do support abortion rights, but everyone should have to pay for their own abortion fully and it should be regulated - kind of like what OmniEulogy said, but more relaxed
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Well like I said aimless, LIKING the new mass of biological stuff is a near-religious, irrational thing.
WHAT it is has nothing religious. I'll repeat again. The WAY people FEEL about the new biological thing is irrational.
And that is why you have misinterpreted what I said.
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On October 19 2011 00:50 unichan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 00:46 Boonbag wrote:On October 19 2011 00:44 unichan wrote:On October 19 2011 00:40 RubiksCube wrote:On October 19 2011 00:35 unichan wrote:
I hate this argument lol, other people have differing opinions on when life starts - just because the mass of cells can't feel or think or anything doesn't mean it's not alive to some people ~_~. Personally I changed my stance to neutral on this issue to avoid the shitstorm, but if you're a pro lifer on TL (or anywhere on the internet, really) you're going to have a hard time. Political discussions on the internet are dumb imo because the discussions will usually be 95% liberal
I don't know why everyone thinks the girl wearing duct tape on her mouth is stupid, she's doing something for a cause that she cares about. Even if you don't think it's effective, this thread proves that it is. It's like someone wearing an ugly jacket - if you don't like it, ignore it. It's not going to interfere with your life unless you let it.
Edit: Also I know plenty of athiest pro-lifers, it's not just some religious thing No, it doesn't. I proves that people have opinions and it makes people think about their stance on the subject. It does not get HER point across, though. Unless she tells everyone the context (as in she silences her voice, because so many babies have had their voice silence by being aborted) it doesn't do anything to convice anyone about pro-life, all it does is stir up discussion. Yeah, it stirred up discussion on a site of male liberals so obviously no one is going to be turned to her point of view - but what if it started discussion somewhere else where there wasn't as obvious of a bias? My point is, lay off the poor girl, she isn't doing anything wrong. Talking about abortion rights on a site of male liberals is completely pointless and is just going to cause a bunch of guys reinforcing each others views and patting each other on the back and collectively jumping on and tearing apart anyone who comes in with an opposing view. what the fuck ? you actually know generations of women fought to get this right ? ofc what she is doing is wrong Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are wrong. I'm sure generations of Kim Jong Ils fought for dictatorship or whatever is going on in North Korea too, but I'm not wrong because I don't support that. Anyways I do support abortion rights, but everyone should have to pay for their own abortion fully and it should be regulated - kind of like what OmniEulogy said, but more relaxed
your comparison is sure right on the spot
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On October 19 2011 00:29 RubiksCube wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 23:41 Sm3agol wrote:On October 18 2011 23:38 Djzapz wrote:
Maybe she's wearing tape because she realizes that she should shut up and not tell actual people how to live their life... That's pretty much exactly what abortion is....telling someone they can't live their life, because you're going to end it as soon as it starts. This is stupid. You're completely disregarding the fact, that not every pregnancy is the same. Where do you stop with this and where do you start?
The same could be applied to abortion. When do you stop? What if, 5 years into a child's life, you decide you can't care for it properly. Is it still ok to kill it? After all, they still can't make their own decisions then either? The "where do you stop and start" is a terrible argument for justifying something.
What if I know I can't be a good father/mother and thus don't want a baby?
Don't get pregnant? Mistakes happen, yes, but that's not a good justification for killing someone.
What about 2 mentally handicapped people, who can't even take care of themselves, do you forbid them to have an abortion?
Same as above. I also don't think someone legally mentally handicapped should be physically able to have children, for the children's sake.
Do you tell a rape victim, who got impregnanted by it, that she should still keep the baby?
There are these wonderful pills you can take up to a week afterwards that can keep that from happening. Would work for the first two arguments you threw up there as well. And again, as bad as rape is, it's not a good justification for killing someone. In any case, see my closing paragraph.
What about the poor families in africa, where getting another baby means it'll have 50% to die of hunger before it is 6? Would you rather tell them to keep the baby only to make it suffer?
See others answers.
What about situations in hospitals in which getting the baby would carry a huge risk for the mother? How huge of a risk is huge enough to warrant abortion? 25% chance to die for the mother? 50%? 75%?
This is kind of dicey, but in this situation I would allow for an abortion. No use risking the life of the mother for the life of the baby. In this situation, you're taking an uncertain life to save a certain life......definitely more justifiable than, "Oh crap i don't have condom, lets screw anyways, and if anything happens, we'll just kill it". Seriously, wtf kind of argument or rational is that?
I'm a father myself, and I got my kid in a situation where some probably wouldn't. And I know it's the greatest feeling on earth. And I know I would die for my son. But still, everyone should be able to choose.
You are able to choose. Babies don't happen accidentally. In the case of rape, it's not something the female can choose, but it still isn't accidental.
You (and every pro-lifer for that matter) just make a general statement and shove on to a situation that never is general. It's always complicated.
Yes, it is complicated, but that's no excuse for giving a blanket cop-out to anyone dumb enough to have unprotected sex, or not take a just-in-case pill if something goes awry. We're talking about a human life, why is it treated so flippantly? We have 37 pages in a single day in a thread where a clearly unwanted Chinese toddler is ran over by a car, and everyone raging and outraged, when thousands of unwanted children are killed even more coldly every day, and legally. Seriously people?
And for the pure "morality take", since I can kind of understand another point of view. It is kind of the mother's choice at the beginning, because since for the first few months the baby cannot live on its own without the mother, hence, it is basically part of the mother's body. For that reason, I would not be outraged at abortion being legal until the baby has passed the point where it can reasonably survive on its own(aka, something like the 50% survival rate age).
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EPT
