Now I know sc2 is piss easy to a lot of people, and I feel that way too. If you sit down with the game for a few months you'll find that the mechanics really aren't that hard to get used to. However, for some people it is, and for those people it's discouraging as hell. You play your first game and have no idea what you're doing, and some people play for months and they still have a lot of problems with the basic hotkeying/not getting supply blocked/etc. It's really a turn off to a lot of new players, and some people just won't try the game at all because there's a stigma of sc2 being a difficult game, and it generally is considering it will be the first RTS for a lot of people.
Now here's my proposition, and I feel no one should have a problem with these features.
Easy mode:
If you've played HoN you'll know what this is. It's a game mode for casuals, generally more forgiving and doesn't take as much skill. What would it be like for sc2? Well, I propose that supply depots/overlords/pylons are made much faster. This will basically make it so supply blocking yourself is a lot more forgiving. Also, you can assign buildings to be auto assigned hotkeys after they're made., and another feature would be that your hatcheries auto spawn larva at a higher rate without injects.
Ok, I understand that this would screw up game balance. But that's not the point. It's a mode for newer players and is basically just there so these players can still play the game without being stressed out having to learn everything at once. It's not a competitive game mode although it'll have a separate ladder with its own MMR,
No stats matchmaking
I don't know why this isn't here yet. Why didn't they put this in instead of removing losses from showing up and discouraging players? Add in a feature where you can match up against people using your ladder MMR, but the stats aren't recorded officially and your MMR/points don't change.
Now you could argue that this should have its own MMR, but I feel that would defeat its purpose. This is a feature where people can just queue without worrying about their losses at all and where they know that nothing will be affected by its outcome. You can mess around, warm up, or try different races as well.
Multiple race profiles
Now this feature I could understand if they didn't end up putting in. I'm sure blizzard feels some players buy multiple accounts to try new races without hurting their ladder rating, and I understand they want to make some more profit. However, I'm usually under the impression that very, very few people actually go out of their way to do this and that smurfs are usually so people don't know about them.
Better tutorials
Add in tutorials with general simple build orders that people can follow. Let's face it, when you buy the game you just want to fucking play the game, not look up teamliquid, spend an hour finding a guide, figure out what the fuck they're talking about when they say 12 racks, and then tabbing back and forth. The campaign is okay for learning the game, but you can't really play as protoss and zerg and some people don't want to go through hours of the campaign. Seriously, the main feature of sc2 is playing 1v1, and nothing really gets you started on blizzard's end.
Anyone have problems with any of these? Because I don't see a reason not to have some of this stuff in the next expansion.
Eh, I kinda feel that the no-stats matchmaking is kinda open for abuse. A higher level player could just throw a bunch of their real ladder games to lower their league and MMR, then use the no-stats matchmaking to noob stomp without consequence.
If there is one thing that the current ladder system does well, it is the fact that it's hard for high-level players to smurf too much in lower leagues, as too much noob stomping inevitably leads to the matchmaking forcing the smurfs to face higher-level players.
On October 16 2011 16:23 eviltomahawk wrote: Eh, I kinda feel that the no-stats matchmaking is kinda open for abuse. A higher level player could just throw a bunch of their real ladder games to lower their league and MMR, then use the no-stats matchmaking to noob stomp without consequence.
If there is one thing that the current ladder system does well, it is the fact that it's hard for high-level players to smurf too much in lower leagues, as too much noob stomping inevitably leads to the matchmaking forcing the smurfs to face higher-level players.
Yeah but if it's not for points or anything, then who cares? I mean if I got paired up vs SlayerS_Boxer I'd be royally fucked but who gives if it's not going to matter on my MMR or my rating or show up on my profile?
I feel like a no-stats recorded "ladder" would be great. Company of Heroes does it, and it works out well, iirc.
Great ideas man. but i think that if you put timers into the tutorials of some basic builds and just teach new players 2-3 builds by just telling them where and when to click to make the right build order that would be just amazing. that would be some kind of mechanical training.
No need for easy mode (and the separate ladder for it either). Just switch game speed from faster to fast and it's going to be a speed most bronzies will be able to keep up with.
agree with the build order tutorial thing and multiple race accounts but not much else.
The biggest problem i see with making the changes you spoke of is that when nearly every core aspect of the game is simplified to the extent that you basically do nothing but turtle and build units haphazardly you dont really improve to the point that you get comfortable playing unranked shitty games and dont want to ladder anyway.
I started with no experience at all losing nearly every game. I improved by laddering and anylizing replays.
disagree on the no-stats matchmaking. i think it should use your current MMR but have the games not count against you. that way, you wont get a masters trying a new build on a bronze scrub
there is a easy mode already. if you click "i'm rts noob" when you have a new account, you get placed in practice league where you play on fast (or even slow?) and like every ramp is covered with destructible rocks so you can't be attacked.
no stats matchmaking is btw a terrible idea, a lot of people will drop to bronze league by insta-leaving a bunch of games (or *maybe* silver/gold) and then just stay there and only play no-stats using their right skill, resulting in them beating everybody who "legally" joins a no-stats game in that MMR zone, because they are way better and just reduced their MMR artificially to get matched againts worse players. Completely terrible and will not happen, i can 100% guarantee that even though i have no clue what's going on at blizz ;P
Easy Mode is the single most terrible thing to have been implemented in DoTA/HoN. It's already in the game (normal speed). No need to promote it more. I pretty much disagree with everything except for perhaps better tutorials.
If you've played HoN you'll know what this is. It's a game mode for casuals, generally more forgiving and doesn't take as much skill. What would it be like for sc2? Well, I propose that supply depots/overlords/pylons are made much faster. This will basically make it so supply blocking yourself is a lot more forgiving. Also, you can assign buildings to be auto assigned hotkeys after they're made., and another feature would be that your hatcheries auto spawn larva at a higher rate without injects.
While you're at it, why not start with infinite minerals and gas ? Seriously, SC2 is a management game, if you don't want to manage (typically automatic larva management as you suggest), why would you even play a management game ? SC2 is already very easy (too much ?) to play. If it's for low level learning purpose, I believe the campaign already fill this role.
On October 16 2011 14:59 Itsmedudeman wrote: Multiple race profiles
Now this feature I could understand if they didn't end up putting in. I'm sure blizzard feels some players buy multiple accounts to try new races without hurting their ladder rating, and I understand they want to make some more profit. However, I'm usually under the impression that very, very few people actually go out of their way to do this and that smurfs are usually so people don't know about them.
This is a good idea. It's always really painful to switch race on one's main profile....
On October 16 2011 16:23 eviltomahawk wrote: Eh, I kinda feel that the no-stats matchmaking is kinda open for abuse. A higher level player could just throw a bunch of their real ladder games to lower their league and MMR, then use the no-stats matchmaking to noob stomp without consequence.
If there is one thing that the current ladder system does well, it is the fact that it's hard for high-level players to smurf too much in lower leagues, as too much noob stomping inevitably leads to the matchmaking forcing the smurfs to face higher-level players.
On October 16 2011 17:36 MisterD wrote:
no stats matchmaking is btw a terrible idea, a lot of people will drop to bronze league by insta-leaving a bunch of games (or *maybe* silver/gold) and then just stay there and only play no-stats using their right skill, resulting in them beating everybody who "legally" joins a no-stats game in that MMR zone, because they are way better and just reduced their MMR artificially to get matched againts worse players. Completely terrible and will not happen, i can 100% guarantee that even though i have no clue what's going on at blizz ;P
I don't get it. If you're willing to stay bronze and queue games like that, then what's to stop you from abusing the current system and just leaving games and smurfing at bronze? Sure, it makes it less of a hassle, but if you want to play like that there is really nothing stopping you. The only reason people don't do this is because they don't want a bronze league icon and in that sense nothing would change.
On October 16 2011 16:23 eviltomahawk wrote: Eh, I kinda feel that the no-stats matchmaking is kinda open for abuse. A higher level player could just throw a bunch of their real ladder games to lower their league and MMR, then use the no-stats matchmaking to noob stomp without consequence.
If there is one thing that the current ladder system does well, it is the fact that it's hard for high-level players to smurf too much in lower leagues, as too much noob stomping inevitably leads to the matchmaking forcing the smurfs to face higher-level players.
no stats matchmaking is btw a terrible idea, a lot of people will drop to bronze league by insta-leaving a bunch of games (or *maybe* silver/gold) and then just stay there and only play no-stats using their right skill, resulting in them beating everybody who "legally" joins a no-stats game in that MMR zone, because they are way better and just reduced their MMR artificially to get matched againts worse players. Completely terrible and will not happen, i can 100% guarantee that even though i have no clue what's going on at blizz ;P
I don't get it. If you're willing to stay bronze and queue games like that, then what's to stop you from abusing the current system and just leaving games and smurfing at bronze? Sure, it makes it less of a hassle, but if you want to play like that there is really nothing stopping you. The only reason people don't do this is because they don't want a bronze league icon and in that sense nothing would change.
the current system at least makes it a lot more uncomfortable because you have to throw games over and over to keep your mmr low. With a "don't record wins/losses" feature, you would need to just drop down once and then you can win every game. with the current system, after you won your 20 or so games, you have to start dropping again because your mmr has gone up again. You can't just only win all the time in any way.
i can only agree with the multiple race profiles. i dont think easy mode is a good idea. if beginners get used to faster depots, etc, then they'll surely be surprised when they play at "normal" speed.... then they'll have to relearn their timings.
tutorials are a good idea, but the game is always evolving (so maybe it's not good to teach a build order). tutorials to show how to micro or whatnot might be useful, though.
On October 16 2011 16:23 eviltomahawk wrote: Eh, I kinda feel that the no-stats matchmaking is kinda open for abuse. A higher level player could just throw a bunch of their real ladder games to lower their league and MMR, then use the no-stats matchmaking to noob stomp without consequence.
If there is one thing that the current ladder system does well, it is the fact that it's hard for high-level players to smurf too much in lower leagues, as too much noob stomping inevitably leads to the matchmaking forcing the smurfs to face higher-level players.
On October 16 2011 17:36 MisterD wrote:
no stats matchmaking is btw a terrible idea, a lot of people will drop to bronze league by insta-leaving a bunch of games (or *maybe* silver/gold) and then just stay there and only play no-stats using their right skill, resulting in them beating everybody who "legally" joins a no-stats game in that MMR zone, because they are way better and just reduced their MMR artificially to get matched againts worse players. Completely terrible and will not happen, i can 100% guarantee that even though i have no clue what's going on at blizz ;P
I don't get it. If you're willing to stay bronze and queue games like that, then what's to stop you from abusing the current system and just leaving games and smurfing at bronze? Sure, it makes it less of a hassle, but if you want to play like that there is really nothing stopping you. The only reason people don't do this is because they don't want a bronze league icon and in that sense nothing would change.
the current system at least makes it a lot more uncomfortable because you have to throw games over and over to keep your mmr low. With a "don't record wins/losses" feature, you would need to just drop down once and then you can win every game. with the current system, after you won your 20 or so games, you have to start dropping again because your mmr has gone up again. You can't just only win all the time in any way.
Still, it just shouldn't matter to anyone and can't hurt anyone. The amount of people who would do this is very far in between and are basically in the same amount of people who leave games on purpose to tank MMR. It's no stats, and if you don't like it don't play it. It's a separate matchmaking system from ladder, so it's not like people who want to play for points are gonna get matched up against a smurfer. In fact, this would be even BETTER for people frustrated with smurfers on ladder causing them to lose points because then at least these people would be playing in a no risk/reward game. I truly feel no stats matchmaking is the best thing they could ever add to sc2 at this point.
Also easymode is just there for people who want to play it. If they want to play it for 5 years and nothing else so be it. I mean, do people have a problem with 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 even though they aren't remotely balanced and aren't even close to the same as 1v1? The more game modes the better. Normal mode is easier, but if you get supply blocked I could see that as being very annoying considering it takes longer real time to finish a new supply depot.
If anything,I always thought the tutorials for sc2 were fucking amazing lol,especially the challenge mode.But yea I understand what you mean,but I also feel like discovering BO's for myself(especially while I was in the lower leagues) was the most fun part about sc2.
I really like the idea of more/better tutorials and an easy mode. I'm such a little noob at the game so it would definitely help me out. I always find myself exiting from the mission I'm working on to look up help from the internet.
EPT
