Well, given the collective 'expertise' (hehe) of the TL community on the subject, I figured... why not try and get some level headed advise from strangers? Anyway, I bet this will be quite a long blog and a clusterfuck of TL;DR. So a warning. I'm not good at keeping things short.
Ok, I'll begin with some back-story. I met this girl for the first time in the late summer of 2009, I was 20 years old, she was 17. Let's call here Ewe. We met through a Swedish forum about metal music, and were two of few from the town I'm from, so we met up once, and then started meeting for concerts and what not. Maybe for a cup of coffee every once in a while. I quickly found an interest, but am quite timid, so I didn't make a move. Wasn't sure if I was in love or what not, so I wanted to feel the situation out a little bit more. Also, she was in an (unhappy) relationship at the time which fell to pieces about a month after we first met.
Then another guy, let's call him Bob, entered the picture,. Bob, and another guy (John from now on) that I was more acquainted with, live in a town just a couple of miles away, so they came down for gigs from time to time. At one of these gigs, Ewe made a move on Bob. They held hands and what not, and I saw something was going on. Later Bob took contact with me and asked if it was ok if he went on with it, since he knew I had an interest in her since before. I figured since it was something that happened naturally between them, I shouldn't cock block it - bros before hoes and all that. So they moved on with their relationship, and I subdued my own emotions.
Fast forward to the new year of 09-10. We had arranged a new years party with the forum members out of town, and I, Ewe and John was going to attend, however Bob couldn't for some reason. To cut it short, she hit it off with another guy there. I don't know much about the details, what had happened between Ewe and Bob in the months prior and so forth. In any case, I was disturbed by the whole thing. I wanted to talk to Bob about it, but felt it was none of my concern, however John told him. Things were over between Ewe and Bob.
And as the months went by, the things between Ewe and the new years flirt didn't work out. Guess it was because they lived about 5 hours by train/car from each other
After that, I and Ewe still met up at concerts every now and then. Carried on with the friendship, and I still held my emotions subdued. Reasoned she was too immature for something more to work, and I was content with how things were anyway... and if something happened, it would happen. And it happened...
So now to more recent times. Earlier this year, in February or so, yet another dude entered her life. This time it was the dude who picked her up however. And when she finished High School, or whatever the equivalent would be, she moved into his apartment. Apparently that was too soon, and she felt imprisoned in the relationship, saw they didn't fit together as well as it seemed in the first phase of infatuation etc. Still, she tried to get things to work out of sympathy for the guy, who had some problems on his own.
I had barely spoken to her during these months, we had only seen each other once at a festival during the summer, so I had no clue about the whole thing at the time. In any case, now there was this concert on the 27th of August that we met up for. Some other people were coming over to do some drinking before the gig, and we were going to be at her mothers place since it was close to the venue, and her mother was out of town. Since we hadn't talked for a while, I checked up on how things were, and she told me some details of the whole ordeal with this guy she lived with. We didn't talk much more about it, the other guys came around, we drank, went to the gig... And once it was over, I saw she was distressed. So I tried to comfort her, saw she was in a weak state of mind. We held hands, I held her and talked to soothe her. It was kind of late, everyone was exhausted, and people moved on homewards... I followed her to her home to her mothers place, felt like I couldn't leave her alone at that point. One of her girlfriends who had been out drinking came over as well, and both of us talked to her for a couple of hours. Tried to get her to realize that she couldn't drag things out with this guy any longer if she felt the way she did, yadda yadda.
Then her friend fell asleep on the couch, and I and Ewe was sitting next to each other on a bed in one of the bedrooms just chatting on. I was starting to enter the phase between intoxication and a hangover, was tired as a hell, and felt that something was "in the air". Couldn't make a move however. Felt it wasn't the right thing to do in the situation... She hadn't even broken up with the guy yet (she was going to, and did, the next day), I didn't want to "exploit" her when she was weak. So we laid there next to each other, held hands, and I was goofing about as I usually do when I'm tired/intoxicated. Eventually, we decided it was time to sleep, I got to sleep on her mothers bed, she went to her room. I laid there for about ten minutes thinking about the whole thing, my own emotions, her, how I should interpret the situation, how I should handle things onwards. Then she came in and said she couldn't fall asleep on her own, and if it was ok if she could sleep next to me. A slight panic kicked in, but I said yes. So she laid down next to me, I laid my arm around her... and we both tried to fall asleep for five minutes or so. Or well, I did at least. Then it came from her;
"Do you have feelings for me?" Ugh... I panicked even more! My mind was in total chaos, but I was honest and said I did have feelings for her. She was quiet for about a minute, and then I threw the question back to her. "What about you?" "Yeah... but I'm afraid about what it would mean for our friendship." I guess that was a warning bell. In any case, I got an anxiety attack after that. I shook like a leaf. We tried to talk a little bit more, I was a wreck mentally, and I can't even recall what any of us said after that. We tried to talk, I was angry at myself for having that reaction, but I couldn't calm down. After a while when both of us figured we couldn't get anything out of talking at that point, we decided to sleep separately anyway. Hehe. She gave me a kiss, and went to her bedroom. And I tried to sleep. Took me what felt like years to calm down, but eventually I did and entered oblivion...
The next day, I woke up, her friend had left for work, and everything was calm. I met up with Ewe in the living room, said good morning. We didn't speak of the night before, instead we talked about the whole breaking up thing with the other guy, to give her confidence in her decision and that it was time, and that I would be there for her afterward if she wanted to talk. I had to go home, and she had to do her thing, and we separated. I didn't hear anything from her for a few hours, and later that evening I sent her a text and asked how things were going. She said it was done, and that she was home alone, but was going to meet up with a friend for a few drinks, and that I could come along if I wanted to - which I did. But I was at a family gathering with my siblings and father, so I would show up later. But things didn't happen that way, since her company was moving on to other pubs, and she didn't feel like it, so she would come home to me instead.
She did, and my family was still there. So we just listened to music, had a few beers, socialized. Wasn't a situation where we could talk yet, but eventually people left and it was she and I. And we talked. About how she felt over the break up, and eventually... about us. What had happened the night before, what we should do from now on and so forth. Should we try for a relationship? What will happen now when things are out in the open when it comes to how we feel? We somewhat decided to give it a chance, but to take things slowly, feel things out. I put on a movie, and we fell asleep next to each other in my bed, her head on my chest. I barely slept that night.
Well, I guess that's the meaty part. The next few days, we met up a few times, talked about all manner of things, had long conversations on MSN. But I felt uneasy. I knew I had to give her time, but my own feelings were growing stronger and I wanted more, but I didn't know how to balance it out. So I figured I should just talk to her about it, but the situation was never right. I couldn't just bust it out of nowhere, felt weird to do that. I wanted to have the conversation face to face, and not via some messenger service, so I tried to meet her whenever, and get into a mood where I felt comfortable talking about it. But something always came in the way... Her mother came home if I was over there, she had to study (had just started a course at the university), she had a previous engagement with a friend etc.
Later that week, I felt how she started to get distant. When we met and gave each other I hug, I felt how it wasn't the same. She was somewhere else in her head when we talked about other things. I felt things were going in the wrong direction. Eventually on Saturday night, I figured I would just do it. I talked to her on MSN, and said I had thoughts about us and I wanted to talk about it, and she just logged off without a word. Then I knew something was totally wrong, and I felt like shit. The next morning, I logged on msn "as offline" to see if she was on, saw she was, and jumped in "as online", and she logged off as soon as I did. Figured she was avoiding me. A few hours passed, and I sent her a text saying I felt that she was being unjust and that we had to talk, to which she replied "later this evening".
And later that evening, or rather that night, since it was midnight, she logged on. And we talked... She said she was too labile for a relationship, that she was worried about our friendship (yeah, the warning bell before) and that she couldn't do it. That I was worth everything good in this world, but she wasn't it. Even if I had seen it coming, I was frustrated, and confused... I worded myself poorly, cut my sentences short and said I don't know about how things will transpire from now on, but that I don't know how a friendship could continue after what had happened. I just felt numb, and eventually said good bye and logged off. Went to bed, and fell asleep immediately.
The next day I had my little breakdown, was angry at myself for letting it happen, I cried. But later that evening something clicked in me, and I just felt calm and happy. And the day after that, I sent her a message on facebook, and said I had been overreacting, and that I held no ill feelings towards her. (I still don't) She said it was ok, that she had a lot to do, and that we could talk later that week.
So now, the aftermath. I thought I had come to terms with it all, but no. Last week, I started to feel the anxiety again. The thoughts kept me up at night, I couldn't fall asleep until my mind/body was at utter exhaustion. We hadn't talked since the exchange of PM's on facebook. I had to fight to hold the anxiety attacks back. I saw her online on MSN during these times, but I couldn't get myself to talk with her. So I waited for her to talk to me if she wanted to, but she never did. So last Tuesday I manned up and wrote to her, and said I still felt shit about the whole situation, but that I just needed to chat with her. Try to normalize the situation somehow. That I wanted to talk to her about what had happened between us at some other point when I felt more stable emotionally. And then we had some general talk about other things for an hour, just friendly banter.
So yeah. Now I don't know what to do anymore. My emotions and my rationale can't join together, I just feel confused. I know I can just let time tend my emotional wounds, but I don't know how the relationship with Ewe - as friends or whatever else - will function from now on. I don't know what actions I can do in the now to ease the feelings inside of me. I still have feelings for her, but I don't know if I should tell her that. I try to occupy myself to not think about it, but I can't. I've talked to friends about the whole thing, but I don't get anything out of it. I don't know if talking about it with her will do good rather than harm. I'm torn between different states of mind, sometimes self pity, sometimes anger, sometimes overwhelming sadness, sometimes I laugh at it all, that I'm making a hen out of a feather. When I lay my head on my pillow, it all strikes up within me... and thoughts. Thoughts about what I could've done different. Am I too needy? Should I have been more proactive? Should I have done less? Will we reach a point where a romantic relationship will be possible again? Can we stay friends? Will my emotions for her "die out"? How do I carry on... Hmm. Yeah, it's all chaotic inside. Confused and without answers, answers that probably don't even exist.
I've decided to stay away from MSN/the forum I talked about/facebook for a couple of days at least. Try and examine myself, try and not distract myself, and do some introspection. Take long walks, baths and so forth and just try and get something together within myself. But, hell... I figured I could try and talk about the whole thing here as well. Might get something out of it.
If you read this whole thing, I guess I can only thank you. If you didn't, I understand . So... yep. Have a good one. Sorry for any grammatical errors.
I don't understand your attraction to this girl in the first place, and why you never moved on after she's been in 4 ... 5? other relationships. You seem very social by the post but I have to ask, do you get to meet many other girls?
Hell of a story mate, read it all, the best advice I can give you is from the mouth of qxc right before a tournament match, and its something on the lines of. "If I go into my next match thinking about the victory or the defeat it will effect my judgement in game, so I'm just going to make good decisions." There's no clear way to handle this, so just do your best to make good decisions, that's really all you can do.
This is nonsense. Is this how you do it in Sweden? Pfah! Here in Norway we just grab the wench by the pigtails and tell'er she's ours 'til we're sick of it.
...
This is what I do in Girl blogs because I have no real advice I'm so sorry
On September 23 2011 05:19 a176 wrote: I don't understand your attraction to this girl in the first place, and why you never moved on after she's been in 4 ... 5? other relationships. You seem very social by the post but I have to ask, do you get to meet many other girls?
If I only knew that! It's all irrational, but my emotions work against my better judgement. If I should try and verbalize the attraction - she's a very creative individual, we have many things in common not only when it comes to music. The only downside in her I can see is in relation to what you said, her own emotions seem to be very volatile. I could carry on with Ewe on a friendly basis, and I didn't make any romantic moves since I knew how she was. But this whole thing just kind of happened now.
And I guess I didn't care much during the period after the first fuckups she had the first six months we knew eachother. I had a relationship with another woman for about half a year last year which didn't work out in the end.
As of now, I don't meet many other girls no. Not that it has mattered very much the times I've been in a more social environment, I rarely get attracted in a manner of love.
On September 23 2011 05:26 TBone- wrote: Hell of a story mate, read it all, the best advice I can give you is from the mouth of qxc right before a tournament match, and its something on the lines of. "If I go into my next match thinking about the victory or the defeat it will effect my judgement in game, so I'm just going to make good decisions." There's no clear way to handle this, so just do your best to make good decisions, that's really all you can do.
Yeah. I feel that I just have to see how things pan out. However it would be sad if our friendship is ruined because of a momentary lapse of judgement on both of our ends, and I want to mend it if I'm able.
When you are 30 and look back on this you are going to facepalm. My advice: stop playing games and be 100% honest with her. If she don't like it.. move on.
Hi friend. I read the entire post and I feel for you. My advice is to lay it all out. Go in with a plan, throw the dice around and see what happens. You can't force someone to want to be in a relationship with you, no matter how much you try. Be 100% honest with how you feel about her, how you want to continue and you see her much much more than a friend. I don't think it's possible to go back to normalcy now - not after this point. You're in love with her.
She know's you've always been there for her and she's afraid you can't fill that role anymore, but she's wrong. You can be her best friend and her lover, they're not mutually exclusive positions. You need to reinforce this notion and do your best to assuage her fears and concerns. You need to show strength of character and display your resolve. You believe in the relationship. She can too.
So yeah, that's my advice. You throw the dice out there, it may go your way it might not. But it's your best bet. Make sure you get the truth from her. Whether you like it or not you'll have to live with it. And it's better to know for certain than to live in the uncertainy and anxiety you're living through now. That way you can heal, you can slowly move on. Good luck.
You should do what you feel is right, and say what you want to say. Don't think about what she wants to hear, or what you think might be political etc.. If you think you can't be friendly with her anymore after all this has happened I think you shouldn't try to force it. You can always try to contact her later after you've cooled down.
A pretty similar thing happened to me a few years ago, And I didn't talk to her for about 4 months after it went wrong, We're friends again now.
On September 23 2011 05:33 deepfield1 wrote: When you are 30 and look back on this you are going to facepalm. My advice: stop playing games and be 100% honest with her. If she don't like it.. move on.
Quoted for truth.
To me it sounds like she is in total control of your relationship. I feel like she really set everything in motion then has your apologizing for it. Doesn't sound fair to me.
I don't know, maybe I'm just jaded or something. I've gone through some nasty shit with chicks.. I don't think I really experience the "I have a crush" jitters so much anymore. I got served with a reality check when the mother of my son (who I adopted - she doesnt know who the father is) started sleeping around on me and popping perscription drugs.
I don't really emotionally invest in a girl the way I used to. I have a current GF, and things are going great, but I think on some level I'll always be on guard.
All I can suggest is to just be cool with being single, before even considering a "relationship". Take pride in who you are and what you do. Girlfriends come and go, but you are stuck with yourself for the rest of your life, so don't get hung up on her - just chill, and do what you do.
On September 23 2011 05:30 marttorn wrote: This is nonsense. Is this how you do it in Sweden? Pfah! Here in Norway we just grab the wench by the pigtails and tell'er she's ours 'til we're sick of it.
...
This is what I do in Girl blogs because I have no real advice I'm so sorry
On September 23 2011 05:33 Musclecore wrote: As of now, I don't meet many other girls no. Not that it has mattered very much the times I've been in a more social environment, I rarely get attracted in a manner of love.
so, this is a very big issue in my eyes. despite all this girl's drawbacks, your heart and mind has nothing else to latch onto aside from the past; you're not giving yourself the choice in the matter and you'll just end up making it worse for yourself in the end.
dont be afraid and just take other girls out on casual dates. you don't have to be in love to go on a date. if you dont like the person you just keep moving on with other people. eventually youll find someone ... or that someone will find you.
On September 23 2011 05:33 deepfield1 wrote: When you are 30 and look back on this you are going to facepalm. My advice: stop playing games and be 100% honest with her. If she don't like it.. move on.
dude... are you jester? were you a poker player? why do I recognize your username.
anyways I agree with this post. stop being a pussy. and if she's being dumb then tell her to stop it.
Just do what you feel is right in your gutts man. Be 100% honest and don't be afraid of consequences. Oh and don't talk a lot with girls you're interested with trough messangers if you want it to be anything serious. More contact in real.
On September 23 2011 05:26 TBone- wrote: Hell of a story mate, read it all, the best advice I can give you is from the mouth of qxc right before a tournament match, and its something on the lines of. "If I go into my next match thinking about the victory or the defeat it will effect my judgement in game, so I'm just going to make good decisions." There's no clear way to handle this, so just do your best to make good decisions, that's really all you can do.
that's... some godly wisdom
she seems like a pretty kind person to me. ---and you are too
if i had the sort of mindset that you did, or still have now.. i would be a lot happier about what i've done in the past.
but as always, it's now in the past. the thoughts of how much you respect what's happened, and how everything has affected you until now may not help you to realize a happy ending with her.
i understand... that.. sometimes when talking, what you learn and how things are going (towards the awkward side or not) will put you in an odd place. everyone is bound to make mistakes, and what you did or said was entirely understandable to me also. as long as they were honest feelings, i don't think she will hold anything against you. it can be hard to 'pick' your words and articulate----all this emotional stuff.
but while you still seem to have the chance, i think you should find out yourself where her feelings for you stand. she is hinting towards wanting to be single, but she cares about hurting you at the same time. this is where you can take the initiative and show-more than to tell her- that you are worth more than what her indecision about you can bring to the table.
Tough position actually... you should probably tell her how you feel because clearly you're not going to get over her until you tell her. If she doesn't feel the same way, you have to move on. The " I don't want to lose you as a friend" excuse is bullshit. And... I don't know if you can be her friend, it's actually hard to be friends with someone you have feeling for, well IMO it is...And make sure you tell her this in person, not on MSN or FB, but i'm sure you knew that =) good luck buddy
Edit: Also, as a guy, you have to go for what you want and girls like that. Can't really say this for all girls, but the ones i've known and talked to agrees with the statement
It's going to be impossible to stay friends with this girl unless you are the most emotionless man ever. So, accepting that, your options are to stop worrying about her feelings and catch her, or stop worrying about her feelings and move on.
What you don't want to do is be worrying about her feelings and sitting in no man's land for 2 years while she dates another half dozen guys.
you shouldn't be so strung out by a girl 3 years younger than you.
Seriously, you should be the one in control of this relationship whether it be just friends or something more.
You wishy washy attitude and general indecisiveness is making you less attractive to her. There is nothing you need to find out from her. The more you remain her platonic friend, the less she is willing to be your girlfriend.
Don't even need to tell her how you feel, it won't make a difference, and I suspect she already knows.
Reduce contact with her, stop being her emotional sponge, date some other girls and she'll come around.
You have no shot. Forget about any kind of romantic relationship. She already knows how you feel, she doesn't feel the same way and it's just near impossible to be with someone you have feelings for as much as it is the other way around. Don't contact for at a while (weeks instead of days), at least till you're at a point when you're able to talk to her without all this hanging over you. You're a mess and you won't get her while you're like that. Get back to your regular self, who she obviously liked, and maybe, maybe, you get another shot in the distant future.
As for the thinking too much about it, not much to do about it. Personally, I've found limited amounts of alcohol helpful at times.
Thanks for all the advice so far, and I agree with 95% of what has been said. As I think was clear from some of the things I've said already, I kind of already know what route I have to go down, but my mind produces counterarguments all the time. So your words help reinforce my will to do what is right, no matter the consequences.
And yeah, when I talk with her, I'm going to do it between two faces, not a computer screen. The hardest for me, however, will be to not be foolishly "nice". I just hope I can get it all out once we talk.
I still know I have a lot, a lot, a lot to learn when it comes to relationships. I was in a huge, depressive and introvert phase throught my teens where I barely had any contact with anyone, which I didn't get out of until I was 19 (I'm 22 now). So I'm well aware of being indecisive and a bit clumsy and clueless. Something I just got to work on moving forward, and however things pan out with this, I hope it can be a lesson for myself.
On September 23 2011 06:11 Musclecore wrote: Thanks for all the advice so far, and I agree with 95% of what has been said. As I think was clear from some of the things I've said already, I kind of already know what route I have to go down, but my mind produces counterarguments all the time. So your words help reinforce my will to do what is right, no matter the consequences.
And yeah, when I talk with her, I'm going to do it between two faces, not a computer screen. The hardest for me, however, will be to not be foolishly "nice". I just hope I can get it all out once we talk.
I still know I have a lot, a lot, a lot to learn when it comes to relationships. I was in a huge, depressive and introvert phase throught my teens where I barely had any contact with anyone, which I didn't get out of until I was 19 (I'm 22 now). So I'm well aware of being indecisive and a bit clumsy and clueless. Something I just got to work on moving forward, and however things pan out with this, I hope it can be a lesson for myself.
be more like the music you listen to, you are now fringe-man noone will call you fickle, or clumsy
you are heavy f*cking metal. like seige tanks dropping on other siege tanks. take all the bases, more tanks, don't hide the children you ARE the tank : D
Frankly, when she asked whether she could sleep next to you, you should have just said "no, I need my sleep" that or made a move. a ribald offer thats half serious half jest perhaps.
But you dropped the ball by giving her the attention she was seeking. Once she was aware you were perfectly willing to continue being an emotional sponge who will listen to her problems while she got her dick elsewhere, she immediately cooled down.
You are letting her drive the framework of your relationship. Man up.
She doesn't sound that great, anyways and I would wager you could find better.
On September 23 2011 06:21 lixlix wrote: Frankly, when she asked whether she could sleep next to you, you should have just said "no, I need my sleep" that or made a move. a ribald offer thats half serious half jest perhaps.
But you dropped the ball by giving her the attention she was seeking. Once she was aware you were perfectly willing to continue being an emotional sponge who will listen to her problems while she got her dick elsewhere, she immediately cooled down.
You are letting her drive the framework of your relationship. Man up.
She doesn't sound that great, anyways and I would wager you could find better.
I truly, truly think this is an angle that has been played up by the internet.
I can most certainly relate to how you're feeling.
She's three years younger and it seems she isn't looking for any serious long term relationships. Just be careful with whatever you decide to do. I personally would distance myself from her until I felt more emotionally stable. Worry about yourself right now, don't live for her every word/action. Go have fun, distract yourself until you feel more rational about the situation.
On September 23 2011 06:16 nanaoei wrote: be more like the music you listen to, you are now fringe-man noone will call you fickle, or clumsy
you are heavy f*cking metal. like seige tanks dropping on other siege tanks. take all the bases, more tanks, don't hide the children you ARE the tank : D
;you can do it
On September 23 2011 06:29 Ruffian wrote: I can most certainly relate to how you're feeling.
She's three years younger and it seems she isn't looking for any serious long term relationships. Just be careful with whatever you decide to do. I personally would distance myself from her until I felt more emotionally stable. Worry about yourself right now, don't live for her every word/action. Go have fun, distract yourself until you feel more rational about the situation.
Whatever happens, good luck
It's not really like that right now, however I was at that point last week. I feel 85% at ease with what I have to do, and want to do, but the bad feelings won't go away. Sometimes its worse, most of the time I feel ok. Trying to figure out through introspection if there's something deeper within me at fault, just triggered by these events.
I need a more "Do or die!"-attitude in general, I reckon. And thanks man!
On September 23 2011 06:11 Musclecore wrote: And yeah, when I talk with her, I'm going to do it between two faces, not a computer screen. The hardest for me, however, will be to not be foolishly "nice". I just hope I can get it all out once we talk.
You met a girl, you liked her, you never did anything about it, years pass, you give it an awkward try for like, a week, and then stop.
She said "she doesn't want to hurt the friendship". From what you described, you didn't see her as a friend. She was always that love interest to you. Maybe not when she was with someone or you were with someone, but the entire basis of your friendship was founded between your romantic interest in her. Her idea of the friendship and your idea are not the same. If you go back to your idea it will destroy you inside. Been there. Done that. NOT FUN!
When you meet her don't be conciliatory. I know you're trying to do right by her and put her at the forefront, which is admirable btw, but in this case it's not appropriate. You're in love with this girl. She has feelings for you. You're here RIGHT NOW and your offer should only be a one-time deal. No thinking about it, no delay, no maybe - it's a yes or no.
"But I don't want to hurt the friendship". (If it were me in your situation I'd say...) "I'm not interested in being friends with you. I'm in love with you. I've had feelings for you since we met. I want to be with you. If that means hurting the friendship I'll take that chance because you're worth the risk.Don't you want to give it a try and see how it works out?"
I felt the same way about a girl when I was in high school. I was stupidly in love with her despite her being overall a pretty terrible person and knowing she slept with tons of other guys. I never really had a chance with her, but she sure as hell liked to tell me everything and keep me around.
It took me like half of high school to get over her. Now that I'm not a stupid kid anymore, it's been like 8 years since I've spoken to or thought about her except in cases like these. I feel pretty ridiculously stupid and I realize it would never have worked anyway... I would've went out with her for 1 month before it ended because she fucked another dude or something similar. She was just using me to vent about her idiotic antics. You seem a bit closer to this girl but it's a similar situation.
Overall, some girls are just too much of a hassle. Even if they don't mean to do bad, you can't be in a real relationship with them and I feel the girl from your story is just like that. They jump from guy to guy and they are (usually) emotional wrecks that can't handle their own lives.
Now that I'm more mature and have a better idea what type of people the ones around me are, I realize that there are a lot of girls like this (not that a ton of guys don't have their flaws but it's not the point here).
To be honest, be around a girl for about an hour and talk with her about random things and you'll know if she's worth putting time into or if she's just another one that doesn't have a goal in life and will jump ship as soon as she finds the next flavor of the month. If you're being honest with yourself, you already know where Ewe falls.
From your story, I wouldn't want a relationship with this girl. She was sleeping in the same bed as you while she had a boyfriend, trouble or not. She did this instead of fixing or ending her relationship (I'll gamble and say she had a decent amount of blame in the bad relationship as well). She dumped another of her boyfriends for another guy. Overall, you should know well enough that you wouldn't be able to trust her. She gave you a chance to sleep with her when she got in your bed as well... you didn't take it and you're probably better off for it.
My suggestion, keep her out of your life. You can't handle simply being her friend and she's not a person worth pursuing a relationship with. It's the only path I see for you except being hurt over and over again and I wouldn't want you to go there since you've been living it for a while already... You think you love her now, I get it. I went through the same thing. But it's not worth it and a ton of other guys that have gone through the same thing can tell you, you will never get a good ending sticking around them.
On September 23 2011 06:53 Kurr wrote: I felt the same way about a girl when I was in high school. I was stupidly in love with her despite her being overall a pretty terrible person and knowing she slept with tons of other guys. I never really had a chance with her, but she sure as hell liked to tell me everything and keep me around.
It took me like half of high school to get over her. Now that I'm not a stupid kid anymore, it's been like 8 years since I've spoken to or thought about her except in cases like these. I feel pretty ridiculously stupid and I realize it would never have worked anyway... I would've went out with her for 1 month before it ended because she fucked another dude or something similar. She was just using me to vent about her idiotic antics. You seem a bit closer to this girl but it's a similar situation.
Overall, some girls are just too much of a hassle. Even if they don't mean to do bad, you can't be in a real relationship with them and I feel the girl from your story is just like that. They jump from guy to guy and they are (usually) emotional wrecks that can't handle their own lives.
Now that I'm more mature and have a better idea what type of people the ones around me are, I realize that there are a lot of girls like this (not that a ton of guys don't have their flaws but it's not the point here).
To be honest, be around a girl for about an hour and talk with her about random things and you'll know if she's worth putting time into or if she's just another one that doesn't have a goal in life and will jump ship as soon as she finds the next flavor of the month. If you're being honest with yourself, you already know where Ewe falls.
From your story, I wouldn't want a relationship with this girl. She was sleeping in the same bed as you while she had a boyfriend, trouble or not. She did this instead of fixing or ending her relationship (I'll gamble and say she had a decent amount of blame in the bad relationship as well). She dumped another of her boyfriends for another guy. Overall, you should know well enough that you wouldn't be able to trust her. She gave you a chance to sleep with her when she got in your bed as well... you didn't take it and you're probably better off for it.
My suggestion, keep her out of your life. You can't handle simply being her friend and she's not a person worth pursuing a relationship with. It's the only path I see for you except being hurt over and over again and I wouldn't want you to go there since you've been living it for a while already... You think you love her now, I get it. I went through the same thing. But it's not worth it and a ton of other guys that have gone through the same thing can tell you, you will never get a good ending sticking around them.
On September 23 2011 06:26 lixlix wrote: which angle?
"You should have alpha'd that bitch at every turn." "She was testing you and you failed."
etc.
Well, if my post came off that way, then its not what I intended but if we honestly assess the situation, when she entered the room and asked to lie down next to him, what was she intending to do?
Was she honestly looking for a relationship or was she seeking attention?
I don't think she was testing him, rather that she was selfishly just seeking attention at a time when her ego was at a low point.
I just don't believe in the "I would like a relationship with you but I'm not going to because I am afraid to lose our friendship line". Its just a throwaway bullshit phrase.
I mean even our inexperienced OP had warning bells go off.
On September 23 2011 06:11 Musclecore wrote: Thanks for all the advice so far, and I agree with 95% of what has been said. As I think was clear from some of the things I've said already, I kind of already know what route I have to go down, but my mind produces counterarguments all the time. So your words help reinforce my will to do what is right, no matter the consequences.
And yeah, when I talk with her, I'm going to do it between two faces, not a computer screen. The hardest for me, however, will be to not be foolishly "nice". I just hope I can get it all out once we talk.
I still know I have a lot, a lot, a lot to learn when it comes to relationships. I was in a huge, depressive and introvert phase throught my teens where I barely had any contact with anyone, which I didn't get out of until I was 19 (I'm 22 now). So I'm well aware of being indecisive and a bit clumsy and clueless. Something I just got to work on moving forward, and however things pan out with this, I hope it can be a lesson for myself.
I think a good trick to avoid being nice is by being as nice to her as you are to other guys. Girls can tell when you're being "foolishly nice" as you put it and they understand it's because you're after something from them (usually sex). If you treat her just as another guy, you get a baseline as to how nice you should be towards her while appearing normal.
So unless you receive some kind of relationship upgrade, you're not obligated to listen to her troubles (unless you're a Mother Teresa-type of figure who's really, really altruistic). Doing that sort of stuff is too much to expect from the average guy and like Chill said, you'd have to be completely devoid of emotions to endure that while you have feelings for her.
edit: The posters above seem to be on the ball as to what you should do next.
Thing is, I'm the same way with guys. It's a general personality trait of mine. I can only be harsh in work environments towards my boss for some reason, then I take no shit.
Anyway, I'll ponder what has been written, and whatever is to come, and talk to her soon in any case. And come with an update when I know what's going down.
On September 23 2011 05:59 Chill wrote: It's going to be impossible to stay friends with this girl unless you are the most emotionless man ever. So, accepting that, your options are to stop worrying about her feelings and catch her, or stop worrying about her feelings and move on.
What you don't want to do is be worrying about her feelings and sitting in no man's land for 2 years while she dates another half dozen guys.
Still friends with most of my exes, but im also pretty emotionless so probably an accurate piece of advice
It sounds like you know that things won't work out, but you're struggling to come to the realization since you've put the time in and realize nothing will come of it. At this point I think you'd be better off moving on, at the very least not talking to this girl for a long period time.
My closest female friend I (who happens to be one of my best friends) have been friends for about 10 year now, and all the way up through high school we had these periods of time where we'd be flirty and that stuff, which would eventually boil over into one of the conversations like you described where it would be oh well how do you feel, where do we go from here, etc. Im sure most people have experienced a similar situation. In the case of my friend and I, these would always blow up into huge arguments, always ending in us not speaking for anywhere from 2-6 months before one of us reconnected with the other. It's taken a long enough time but weve finally been able to drop the what if scenario and be friends, and yes we did attempt to go further, but it was extremely short lived and we both realized it wouldn't work.
So my advice: if you cant take the feeling now, take a break, try again later, especially if she's a friend you actually want as a friend, and not just a piece of ass you've got a lot in common with. If she is just a piece of ass, then go for it, hit it as long as you can, and it'll probably end up like the rest of her relationships you described, and you'll have finally gotten something out of it
I never believed in the friendzone, or the game or any of that stuff until today. Sorry, but this girl sounds like a player, and you got outplayed. She has arranged things so she jumps from one boy to another. She is never alone, but leaves a trail of broken hearts behind her. You sound like a nice boy, and need to find a nice girl. I would recommend moving on to someone that won't sleep with a boy the day before her breakup.
Move on. It will be difficult but that's what you have to do. She is not worth it atm.
Don't talk to her unless she talks to you first, and if this happens, it will be a long time from now, maybe months. Then be nice, but don't rush, it will be like a new start. Then it can happen that:
A: You continue to be friends.
B: She wants to sart over again. In that case, you will tell her no because within the time passed, you will have realized she is not mature enough for what you are looking in a girl and that you don't love her anymore.
That's my advice, now it's for you to analyze it and think if it helps you.
Good luck, it happened to me once and it's a hard time, but time heals everything.
It will be impossible for you at this stage to recieve and fully comprehend the following information but when this situation has passed you will, as someone mentioned earlier, 'facepalm' when you look back at it:
- There are more fish in the sea, bro. And the chances of you finding someone you actually fit toghether with that are good for you and not tearing you apart with teenage physchological problems are close to 100%.
edit: also, I have a decent vocabulary but I'd never heard of "labile" in my life. I love how foreigners know the most obscure words.
Oh, about the blog. Just about everyone goes through this at one time or another. The whole, "you think you're over her and then you get a relapse" thing? Totally normal. I know it's cliche that time heals all wounds, but cliches get to be that way for a reason. This too shall pass.
On September 23 2011 07:52 Starparty wrote: It will be impossible for you at this stage to recieve and fully comprehend the following information but when this situation has passed you will, as someone mentioned earlier, 'facepalm' when you look back at it:
- There are more fish in the sea, bro. And the chances of you finding someone you actually fit toghether with that are good for you and not tearing you apart with teenage physchological problems are close to 100%.
Thing is, I'm aware of it. However, I don't want it to be that way. A bit idealistic and egoistic of me, perhaps. I'm aware of all the clichés, and the truth behind them... But emotions can be quite irrational.
On September 23 2011 08:34 qrs wrote: Do Swedes use W for the V sound?
edit: also, I have a decent vocabulary but I'd never heard of "labile" in my life. I love how foreigners know the most obscure words.
Well, in general I guess we're pretty good at doing that. And I suppose I used that word since it's common in the Swedish vernacular, and since there is a direct translation in the English language I just went for it instead of "unstable" or whatever.
I agree with Chill that the whole "ignore a girl so she likes you more" thing is overplayed but women DO like a bit of confidence, and nobody (male or female) is attracted to someone who is either clingy, or VERY VERY obviously trying to hide their clinginess or insecurity.
But that has nothing to do with your situation. You sound like one of those novels where knights pledge their love to a maiden fair and go through the rest of the book (20 years or so) being disappointed at every turn but being too purely in love to ever look at someone else. Don Quixote kind of lambasted that.
I'm not trying to be mean, I'm trying to snap you out of it because we've all been there. It gets easier after the first time and you are WASTING your time even thinking about her. I know you can't will yourself to not feel something, just know that we all find that crazy girl early in our lives who wen can't BELIEVE could do that and we subconsiously make excuses for her in our hearts if not our heads because deep down we know she's the one.
Bollocks. You just have butterflies in your stomach and its a high. It can be easy to think there's no one else out there at a young age. I honestly don't know why i put up with my first GFs shit for as long as I did (i was 17) now but at the time i was truly, honestly head over heels.
It fades, mate. You just need to avoid her company and time will do the rest, like any other addiction. I don't care how you FEEL, you can't control that, but you CAN control what you do. Man up and stay away from her and talk to someone if you're hurting but NOT her. Don't give anyone who doesn't deserve it that kind of power over you.
On September 23 2011 07:52 Starparty wrote: It will be impossible for you at this stage to recieve and fully comprehend the following information but when this situation has passed you will, as someone mentioned earlier, 'facepalm' when you look back at it:
- There are more fish in the sea, bro. And the chances of you finding someone you actually fit toghether with that are good for you and not tearing you apart with teenage physchological problems are close to 100%.
Thing is, I'm aware of it. However, I don't want it to be that way. A bit idealistic and egoistic of me, perhaps. I'm aware of all the clichés, and the truth behind them... But emotions can be quite irrational.
Dont want it to be what way? Are you saying that a girl with low self esteem that has picked some five other guys before you, then coming to you after have been neglected by all of them - but - then has the nerve to neglect you with some bullshit reason like "it might ruin the friendship" is the perfect and one and only girl for you? It was some hour ago since i read it, did i get it wrong?
But if that was the case - seriously friend, think higher of yourself than that. Your true partner will be your best friend in the world, not some selfish teenager who treats you like dust.
Im not going to sit here and play hobby psychologist to any greater extent because I dont know your story, but to me it doesnt sound like romantic emotions, more like youre scared of this girl not being in your life because you havent properly had the realization that there is actually other women out there that will come after this mess. women that will care for you.
However, relationships is a trial and error process after all. I urge you to follow your heart even if it gets you burned. Then learn from it. Keep the proper words of wisdom here and whererever else in the back of your head though. Even if they say "we told you so", it can also be a sourse of inspiration if you feel disheartened so you dont let some ego emo girl make any deeper emotional scars in you.
Edit: in a moment of arrogance i will state that the poster above me is as equally fucking right as i am
Its very easy to approach this situation critically and in depth. That's what "love" or "attraction" or "a bond" will do to you. I had almost an entirely similar situation with someone over the course of about 7 years. What you realize at the end of it all, is that a girl like this has her brain trained on physical attraction and a DOMINANT, confident, and cocky(internally) GO-GETTER type of individual. Women who date these kinds of guys dont see all of this, they only see, SECURITY and THRILL. These two things are what develop a young girls brain into an irrational "dumb decisions making" girl who will never be able to keep happy because she puts her heart into security and sacrifices everything else, only to hit a brick wall when she realizes the security was only in physical form, she never had spiritual/mental/emotional/sincere security. Thats where YOU come in. You've been the only thing stable to her in that category but you've never had the BALLS to take control of the situation. Shes known that, but because shes a girl can only react to your shyness and stay friends from fear of not wanting to lose the only thing stable in her life.
You have a strong presence in the mental/emotional security for her, but a terrible presence in the physical confidence realm of things. Thats something that as a man you will have to develop and address that area of your life.
But I want to point out a serious thing you should learn from all this. You are emotionally complex. The things you consider, hesitate upon, and decide wisely on, the average simple girl would never come close to until years beyond you. This means you need a girl who is equally invested and mature in the same areas as you. Otherwise, you will be involved in a one sided relationship that you will never truly be happy in, contrary to what your "heart" is telling you right now in this situation.
Right now...your dick/heart wants, "what could be". Your brain has all the evidence to conclude that this girl doesnt have the "right build" compatibility for what your heart/dick/BRAIN NEEDS.
You have to remember, you are hesitant in every serious encounter with her. Its more than just a fear for losing her, your whole body is actually preventing you from being with this girl.
You need to listen to that and not just write it off as "the jitters". You have to let this go for the well-being of your opportunity to find someone that your brain, heart, and dick can all mutually appreciate. It can't be one or even two sided.
I hope all your wounds heal and for now, being that your heart is so volatile, you let your brain make the next few major decisions for yourself.
Regarding thing's to have done differently. Maybe it's just me, but I'd be cautious of the cuddle immediately before or after a break-up as you could simply find yourself part of a relationship/emotion rebound. I personally think it was fine you didn't want to 'exploit' her. It might have been better to err even further than you did, unless you're just hoping for a one night stand. To me, things are just too messy emotionally to get involved at that stage.
The other thing- I'm a firm believer in face to face when trying define a relationship. For one, I think the 'no' sinks in a little deeper when hearing it in person. It's harder/ more awkward, but also easier to interpret intentions.
As for now, probably best to let it lie. You could play it out longer, but it'll probably come down to a mental shift of deciding not to pursue her despite your feelings. Because for whatever reason, emotions are irrationally hopeful. But fortunately a person can be an emotional basketcase for awhile and yet make some smart, conscious choice to stop further relationship attempts. There's a time for persistence, but when the time comes to stop, you stop. And ride out the emotions as best you can. But knowing that doesn't make it easier.
this is a very run of the mill story....that slutty girl that uses clingy guys like yourself to make her feel good about herself when she's just probably a decent looking tramp. Probably had daddy issues growing up or something.
I know this doesn't sound true right now but just give it a month or so and you'll eventually forget about it unless you perpetually dwell on it and stalk her, etc. Best thing you can do is just pretend like it didnt affect you emotionally at all and just shrug it off like it was nothing, you can tell she is getting very turned off from the fact that you keep saying that you want to "make things straight" and all this all other nonsense. Save that for your 30s man, teen girls dont give a shit about that stuff. They just want to fuck and get a feel for what they like and don't like in relationships, all the guys you mentioned here are just lab rats and you are the clingy friend.
best of luck getting over it once you realize that.
Ok, so now I've got the whole story told about what happened from her account. I was weighing between just cutting all contact, and talking to her and cut things clear. Decided I wanted to talk to her anyway, get things straightened out.
So, I sent her a message friday night/saturday morning and said I wanted to do just that. No answer yesterday, no answer today. I started talking with a dude I know intimately, that I know I can talk to, about the whole thing about an hour ago. He also knows this girl. He said he could be a messenger inbetween us, and I just felt "Fuck it, let's do it and get things in the clear!".
Apparently she got hooked up with this other dude two weeks ago, but couldn't tell me because she was too afraid to hurt me even more. Some other things were transfered, but that's the important part. As I said (I think) in the OP, she said she was too "labile" and that she wasn't "ready for a relationship". Oh, and I also got told that she said she had said everything she wanted to say when we talked at the break up. So, now I know how she behaves, and that she is false. I just got pissed off and couldn't handle it any more.
So yeah. I'm angry as fuck, but I don't feel sad or anything. At least I know where she stands now, and can move on without any regrets. I deleted her from facebook/MSN and so forth. Time to move in in life and unto other adventures...
Thanks for all the support and advice.
P.S. Sorry for typos, I'm still damn angry and just wanted to get it out there.
On September 23 2011 08:34 qrs wrote: Do Swedes use W for the V sound?
edit: also, I have a decent vocabulary but I'd never heard of "labile" in my life. I love how foreigners know the most obscure words.
Oh, about the blog. Just about everyone goes through this at one time or another. The whole, "you think you're over her and then you get a relapse" thing? Totally normal. I know it's cliche that time heals all wounds, but cliches get to be that way for a reason. This too shall pass.
"labile" is "labil" in Swedish and is pretty common word in Swedish therefor he used it in English as well ^^.
On September 26 2011 07:54 Musclecore wrote: Ok, so now I've got the whole story told about what happened from her account. I was weighing between just cutting all contact, and talking to her and cut things clear. Decided I wanted to talk to her anyway, get things straightened out.
So, I sent her a message friday night/saturday morning and said I wanted to do just that. No answer yesterday, no answer today. I started talking with a dude I know intimately, that I know I can talk to, about the whole thing about an hour ago. He also knows this girl. He said he could be a messenger inbetween us, and I just felt "Fuck it, let's do it and get things in the clear!".
Apparently she got hooked up with this other dude two weeks ago, but couldn't tell me because she was too afraid to hurt me even more. Some other things were transfered, but that's the important part. As I said (I think) in the OP, she said she was too "labile" and that she wasn't "ready for a relationship". Oh, and I also got told that she said she had said everything she wanted to say when we talked at the break up. So, now I know how she behaves, and that she is false. I just got pissed off and couldn't handle it any more.
So yeah. I'm angry as fuck, but I don't feel sad or anything. At least I know where she stands now, and can move on without any regrets. I deleted her from facebook/MSN and so forth. Time to move in in life and unto other adventures...
Thanks for all the support and advice.
P.S. Sorry for typos, I'm still damn angry and just wanted to get it out there.
Yeah that sucks :S. Anyway gl in the future and keep on HWAITING! =)
Definately sounds like this relationship has caused so much feelings that you should be more active about it. She could very well feel like you didn't care enough about it to work on it when you kept looking for that "right moment". Indeed you're the one to take control of the situation, not endlessly let her mind wonder about if your ambitions are strong enough. I can only assume how girl might react if she heard the guy had had "feelings" for her for years. How deep end endless love can you consider something that has been able to be muted for so long? I can understand man acting that way, but girl might not end up considering the situation in most attracted fashion.
Should just go allin with it and make her know that you really want it with passion. Trying to play safe to "at least" get the friendship where it was might aswell cause more pain on a long run thinking what could've been.
e: Ah hell, sorry for pushing the thread up, wrote post after reading page 1 and didn't look at dates.
e2: well, despite how it unfortunately panned out, it was still good to clear the thing out. Imagine just having given up on it and hoping you could be friends? Could be ahead of years of blaming yourself for not trying enough. Even if made angry now, on long run it has to be better than being sad and blaming self.
EPT
I'm so sorry
