On September 20 2011 07:12 TabyLing wrote: Maybe I chose the wrong choice of words... You have stated here that you don't really care much about why she got upset and that if you call her you are only going to apologise for the friend thing. Just understand her point of view and let her understand yours, your not caring and saying its not a problem because you understood where it was coming from, and passing off the fact that she cared about it, are where you make it look like you are all about being right and why she is so in the wrong.
Sometimes arguments and relationships aren't about who is the more right one, who gets the last word in, and who can hold out the longest in not speaking to eachother competitions. Sometimes you have to give a little, let go of your self righteousness and care about something that is obviously a problem. Care about it and explain your view, understand what the other person is saying and understand how maybe you can change. They might need to change a bit aswell, after all its both of you in the relationship togeather. It's great when you can push eachother to achieve your goals and change to be better people. Although I would think the biggest thing she is annoyed about is that you really didn't care about how you made her unhappy, and they you further show you don't care by not speaking to her and missing her big event. I'm not trying to attack you, but you really need to take a step back and look at your attitude, because it really does come off as childish, self involved, and "I'm always right". Some would argue this isn't the best attitude to have.
She doesn't know yet that I didn't care. It was like a 30 second ordeal which is what sucks the most. She walked off for a while, came back and said "I'm mad about what you said about my friend, I'm taking you home."
I could have said "I was NOT that serious, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to shit-talk your ugly goblin friend. I'm just in a bad mood blah blah blah." Maybe make it sound a little nicer. I DO care about upsetting her, and I'll apologize about the friend comment because I'm not strongly committed to my position. I'll admit I was DEFINITELY not in the right, but I mistakenly thought it was incidental and she wouldn't care.
I don't think I was right about complaining about her friend. But I don't think she was right about breaking instantly because of it. My opinion is that no one was right, but it's up to me to fix it if I want to. Believe it or not, I think I'm less proud than she is. I accept that I made mistakes, and she probably will eventually, but not right now. And we've talked since I started this blog and I certainly didn't mention I felt she was wrong too. But I will eventually. In a civil manner. And then she'll relent and stay quiet about it next time and apologize.
You should have just fucked her friend, and dumped your doctorate gf, because to be honest your gf sounds like a pussy. You should have took off your glasses, glared at her, then kissed her. Don't be a malleable bitch.
On September 20 2011 07:20 Endymion wrote: You should have just fucked her friend, and dumped your doctorate gf, because to be honest your gf sounds like a pussy. You should have took off your glasses, glared at her, then kissed her. Don't be a malleable bitch.
On September 20 2011 07:17 Ancestral wrote: She doesn't know yet that I didn't care. It was like a 30 second ordeal which is what sucks the most. She walked off for a while, came back and said "I'm mad about what you said about my friend, I'm taking you home."
Slow down: that's not what you said the first time.
On September 19 2011 10:04 Ancestral wrote: Also, at some point in the 20 minutes I was at her apartment, she invoked the all-to-common "you always think you're right," which I've told her before offends me and she should say what she actually means instead of that phrase, which really means "why don't you believe everything I say without saying anything back at all?" But I guess she can't just advocate for herself, she has to bitch at me. So I shou[t] "you're going to have to shut your mouth if you keep using that phrase." Anyway she goes off and does something in the bathroom and comes back and says "I'm going to take you home," and I say "I feel the same way, but I'm not riding with you." And at those final words I storm out, slam the door, and walk 4 miles home at 1:30AM.
That's got nothing to do with her friend, that's disrespecting her.
On September 20 2011 07:17 Ancestral wrote: She doesn't know yet that I didn't care. It was like a 30 second ordeal which is what sucks the most. She walked off for a while, came back and said "I'm mad about what you said about my friend, I'm taking you home."
Slow down: that's not what you said the first time.
On September 19 2011 10:04 Ancestral wrote: Also, at some point in the 20 minutes I was at her apartment, she invoked the all-to-common "you always think you're right," which I've told her before offends me and she should say what she actually means instead of that phrase, which really means "why don't you believe everything I say without saying anything back at all?" But I guess she can't just advocate for herself, she has to bitch at me. So I shou[t] "you're going to have to shut your mouth if you keep using that phrase." Anyway she goes off and does something in the bathroom and comes back and says "I'm going to take you home," and I say "I feel the same way, but I'm not riding with you." And at those final words I storm out, slam the door, and walk 4 miles home at 1:30AM.
That's got nothing to do with her friend, that's disrespecting her.
Yeah you're right that that doesn't have to do with her friend. And yes, I did not make a perfect replica of the story in text. That's hard to do.
But the "shut your mouth" thing was not even mentioned by her. That's an annoying part to me. I said that, which I think was the most inflammatory thing, but then she says "you can't talk about my friend like that," and "like that" means saying "your friend mocked me I didn't like that." And yeah the reason she gave for wanting me out may not be the real reason. But I reiterate, I was NOT going to ride home with my gf when she was kicking me out, ostensibly for something so silly. Silly of me as well? Definitely. Hence the thread.
Notice, everyone (not necessarily you, qrs), I'm not saying "here's my story, now how do I justify to myself that I was right?"
Edit: Despite reasonable responses by qrs and TabyLing, I still want this clooosed. I suppose I should PM a mod too. I should have anticipated the level of public ridicule since I opened myself up for it, but this is a real life problem and it's not good for my mental health or the world to have people writing responses that are nothing but insults.
On September 20 2011 07:30 Ancestral wrote: But I reiterate, I was NOT going to ride home with my gf when she was kicking me out
I probably would have done the same thing as you at that point. It's just too bad that it got to there.
Notice, everyone (not necessarily you, qrs), I'm not saying "here's my story, now how do I justify to myself that I was right?"
You're not saying that, and you might not be asking for it from us, either, but, sure, you're justifying to yourself that you were at least mostly in the right, or that even if you were partly in the wrong it was excusable. That's natural: we all do that for ourselves. We're excellent at that.
That's why, even though I don't fully agree with your assessment of how you came off, I'm not going to lecture you about it--you're not asking for that, and there wouldn't be much point. Instead, I'll tell you the opposite--and this is something that actually works for me occasionally, when I can keep it in mind: Just like you can always see your actions in a reasonable light, the other person can always see his or her actions that way too. A lot of the problems between people really do arise from misunderstandings and nothing more: if we could see everyone else the way that they see themselves, these things wouldn't happen.
If you keep that sort of thing in mind, it can be easier to see a person's point of view. And if you can see a person's point of view, it's easier for them to see yours as well. And then you can smooth things over.
IOW, don't think about the ways that she was wrong, think about how you were wrong from her POV. That doesn't mean admitting that you were wrong, it just means understanding why she felt the way she did. It's easy for you to see your side; you don't need to work on that. If you can see her side too, that doesn't mean you're being a "pussy" or something. It just means you have a broader perspective than you did. As a bonus, making up becomes easier too.
I hope that makes sense. It's definitely not as easy to do as I make it sound, but I think it's worth doing, in arguments in general, not just bf/gf. Remember that people are not that different from each other and we all think that we're generally reasonable. The corollary is that if the other guy's side looks completely unreasonable, then you haven't managed to see it. Then just try, not to agree with it, but to see it.
Notice, everyone (not necessarily you, qrs), I'm not saying "here's my story, now how do I justify to myself that I was right?"
You're not saying that, and you might not be asking for it from us, either, but, sure, you're justifying to yourself that you were at least mostly in the right, or that even if you were partly in the wrong it was excusable. That's natural: we all do that for ourselves. We're excellent at that.
That's why, even though I don't fully agree with your assessment of how you came off, I'm not going to lecture you about it--you're not asking for that, and there wouldn't be much point. Instead, I'll tell you the opposite--and this is something that actually works for me occasionally, when I can keep it in mind: Just like you can always see your actions in a reasonable light, the other person can always see his or her actions that way too. A lot of the problems between people really do arise from misunderstandings and nothing more: if we could see everyone else the way that they see themselves, these things wouldn't happen.
If you keep that sort of thing in mind, it can be easier to see a person's point of view. And if you can see a person's point of view, it's easier for them to see yours as well. And then you can smooth things over.
IOW, don't think about the ways that she was wrong, think about how you were wrong from her POV. That doesn't mean admitting that you were wrong, it just means understanding why she felt the way she did. It's easy for you to see your side; you don't need to work on that. If you can see her side too, that doesn't mean you're being a "pussy" or something. It just means you have a broader perspective than you did. As a bonus, making up becomes easier too.
I hope that makes sense. It's definitely not as easy to do as I make it sound, but I think it's worth doing, in arguments in general, not just bf/gf. Remember that people are not that different from each other and all of us have similar brains and needs and feelings. The corollary is that if their side looks completely unreasonable, then you haven't managed to see it. Then just try, not to agree with it, but to see it.
[/QUOTE] I 100% agree. And while we haven't gotten to serious discussion yet, it's pending. I don't want to rub anything in her face. Just understand eachother. But part of understanding is understanding why the other one is mad. And I'll do that, but I also hope she does that or else it's a wash anyway and she's not who I thought she was.
But I'm more optimistic than that. Thanks for being utterly reasonable.
On September 20 2011 07:12 TabyLing wrote: Maybe I chose the wrong choice of words... You have stated here that you don't really care much about why she got upset and that if you call her you are only going to apologise for the friend thing. Just understand her point of view and let her understand yours, your not caring and saying its not a problem because you understood where it was coming from, and passing off the fact that she cared about it, are where you make it look like you are all about being right and why she is so in the wrong.
Sometimes arguments and relationships aren't about who is the more right one, who gets the last word in, and who can hold out the longest in not speaking to eachother competitions. Sometimes you have to give a little, let go of your self righteousness and care about something that is obviously a problem. Care about it and explain your view, understand what the other person is saying and understand how maybe you can change. They might need to change a bit aswell, after all its both of you in the relationship togeather. It's great when you can push eachother to achieve your goals and change to be better people. Although I would think the biggest thing she is annoyed about is that you really didn't care about how you made her unhappy, and they you further show you don't care by not speaking to her and missing her big event. I'm not trying to attack you, but you really need to take a step back and look at your attitude, because it really does come off as childish, self involved, and "I'm always right". Some would argue this isn't the best attitude to have.
She doesn't know yet that I didn't care. It was like a 30 second ordeal which is what sucks the most. She walked off for a while, came back and said "I'm mad about what you said about my friend, I'm taking you home."
I could have said "I was NOT that serious, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to shit-talk your ugly goblin friend. I'm just in a bad mood blah blah blah." Maybe make it sound a little nicer. I DO care about upsetting her, and I'll apologize about the friend comment because I'm not strongly committed to my position. I'll admit I was DEFINITELY not in the right, but I mistakenly thought it was incidental and she wouldn't care.
I don't think I was right about complaining about her friend. But I don't think she was right about breaking instantly because of it. My opinion is that no one was right, but it's up to me to fix it if I want to. Believe it or not, I think I'm less proud than she is. I accept that I made mistakes, and she probably will eventually, but not right now. And we've talked since I started this blog and I certainly didn't mention I felt she was wrong too. But I will eventually. In a civil manner. And then she'll relent and stay quiet about it next time and apologize.
You don't have to always outright say "I don't care" for the other person to know you don't care, sometimes just passing it off quickly and saying well look at X IM UPSET ABOUT X, and wanting them to care about that, when you havn't really given much time to their complaint. Maybe you did explain that your comment between you and your DJ friend was nothing but a joke, but maybe you didn't really show that you understood her side, which i kinda think you didn't, and maybe she felt a bit silly about it too and didn't really know how to word it properly. I think she was upset because she wanted to be seen as cool and awesome by your friends, and your comment made her feel like you portrayed her as the annoying gf that makes him go home, when you could have said many reasons why you were leaving. She spoke to you about having a problem with this. Now I really don't know how the conversation went down, but I do think you must have shown a lack of care or understanding about why she was upset and had a problem with what you said. That can be hurtful and annoying, and then it can be even more annoying when you then bring something up that is trying to turn everything around to how you have been wronged and wanting her to care about that, when you havn't shown her the amount of care she wanted about her problem. Anyway thats just my assumption of how she might feel. It's very good you have spoken to eachother, and no she wasn't in the right any more than you were... I think its kinda rare for 1 person to be completely innocent and right in an argument, and its good that you can see you were wrong. I'm think she probably just wants you to say "I'm sorry for the argument the other night, I understand why you got upset about the DJ thing now, for me it was just a joke and didn't make you look bad at all" although I am thinking that by you guys already having spoken that you are pretty over it now. Although it seems there are still a couple of unresolved negative emotions.
For future arguments though, you would be surprised how much someone just wants you to understand their side, even if it is a little silly, get how you upset them and be sorry about it, explain your side and how you see things too. If they won't give you the same understanding about why you did things the way you did them, and why you got upset. Then that is a big problem in the partnership. If your both not understanding eachother that is an even bigger problem, and ofc if you arent giving any understanding that is a problem too.
On September 20 2011 07:12 TabyLing wrote: Maybe I chose the wrong choice of words... You have stated here that you don't really care much about why she got upset and that if you call her you are only going to apologise for the friend thing. Just understand her point of view and let her understand yours, your not caring and saying its not a problem because you understood where it was coming from, and passing off the fact that she cared about it, are where you make it look like you are all about being right and why she is so in the wrong.
Sometimes arguments and relationships aren't about who is the more right one, who gets the last word in, and who can hold out the longest in not speaking to eachother competitions. Sometimes you have to give a little, let go of your self righteousness and care about something that is obviously a problem. Care about it and explain your view, understand what the other person is saying and understand how maybe you can change. They might need to change a bit aswell, after all its both of you in the relationship togeather. It's great when you can push eachother to achieve your goals and change to be better people. Although I would think the biggest thing she is annoyed about is that you really didn't care about how you made her unhappy, and they you further show you don't care by not speaking to her and missing her big event. I'm not trying to attack you, but you really need to take a step back and look at your attitude, because it really does come off as childish, self involved, and "I'm always right". Some would argue this isn't the best attitude to have.
She doesn't know yet that I didn't care. It was like a 30 second ordeal which is what sucks the most. She walked off for a while, came back and said "I'm mad about what you said about my friend, I'm taking you home."
I could have said "I was NOT that serious, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to shit-talk your ugly goblin friend. I'm just in a bad mood blah blah blah." Maybe make it sound a little nicer. I DO care about upsetting her, and I'll apologize about the friend comment because I'm not strongly committed to my position. I'll admit I was DEFINITELY not in the right, but I mistakenly thought it was incidental and she wouldn't care.
I don't think I was right about complaining about her friend. But I don't think she was right about breaking instantly because of it. My opinion is that no one was right, but it's up to me to fix it if I want to. Believe it or not, I think I'm less proud than she is. I accept that I made mistakes, and she probably will eventually, but not right now. And we've talked since I started this blog and I certainly didn't mention I felt she was wrong too. But I will eventually. In a civil manner. And then she'll relent and stay quiet about it next time and apologize.
You don't have to always outright say "I don't care" for the other person to know you don't care, sometimes just passing it off quickly and saying well look at X IM UPSET ABOUT X, and wanting them to care about that, when you havn't really given much time to their complaint. Maybe you did explain that your comment between you and your DJ friend was nothing but a joke, but maybe you didn't really show that you understood her side, which i kinda think you didn't, and maybe she felt a bit silly about it too and didn't really know how to word it properly. I think she was upset because she wanted to be seen as cool and awesome by your friends, and your comment made her feel like you portrayed her as the annoying gf that makes him go home, when you could have said many reasons why you were leaving. She spoke to you about having a problem with this. Now I really don't know how the conversation went down, but I do think you must have shown a lack of care or understanding about why she was upset and had a problem with what you said. That can be hurtful and annoying, and then it can be even more annoying when you then bring something up that is trying to turn everything around to how you have been wronged and wanting her to care about that, when you havn't shown her the amount of care she wanted about her problem. Anyway thats just my assumption of how she might feel. It's very good you have spoken to eachother, and no she wasn't in the right any more than you were... I think its kinda rare for 1 person to be completely innocent and right in an argument, and its good that you can see you were wrong. I'm think she probably just wants you to say "I'm sorry for the argument the other night, I understand why you got upset about the DJ thing now, for me it was just a joke and didn't make you look bad at all" although I am thinking that by you guys already having spoken that you are pretty over it now. Although it seems there are still a couple of unresolved negative emotions.
For future arguments though, you would be surprised how much someone just wants you to understand their side, even if it is a little silly, get how you upset them and be sorry about it, explain your side and how you see things too. If they won't give you the same understanding about why you did things the way you did them, and why you got upset. Then that is a big problem in the partnership. If your both not understanding eachother that is an even bigger problem, and ofc if you arent giving any understanding that is a problem too.
Good advice as well. Thanks. I should acknowledge, and perhaps empathize. What if her friends said "let's go somewhere else this is lame" and she said in front of me "nope, I'm staying to watch this lame event my BF is part of." I'll keep it in mind.
edit: It took me a while to write all that, so I didn't see any of the posts between this one and the one that it quotes. In case I seem to be repeating things that have been said above, that's why.
On September 20 2011 07:52 Ancestral wrote: I 100% agree. And while we haven't gotten to serious discussion yet, it's pending. I don't want to rub anything in her face. Just understand each other. But part of understanding is understanding why the other one is mad. And I'll do that, but I also hope she does that or else it's a wash anyway and she's not who I thought she was.
Maybe...but that's exactly what makes these things so much trickier to do in real life than to talk about in the abstract. Obviously, it's true what you say that hopefully she'll try to understand you just as you try to understand her, and that if she doesn't, your relationship will probably run into problems. But you can't be thinking about that while you try to understand her, because then it can end up feeling to her like, "Look how reasonably I'm trying to understand you, dear. Now, can't you do the same thing for me?" It feels like you're only trying to see her side as a way of making her see your side. That just doesn't work.
I can tell you this because I've been on the wrong side of it many times. Honestly, I think men are a little different from women. They deal with emotions from a more rationalistic perspective. Men usually want to talk things out, have each side explain itself to the other. Women think that if you can't understand something without it being explained, then you don't really understand it. I don't think there's necessarily a right or wrong here, but it's futile to try to force one to do things like the other. So, for instance, saying something like, "I see your side of it. Can you see mine, though?", utterly reasonable as it sounds, is not a good thing to say to a woman. Again, I can tell you that because I've tried saying it. It doesn't work.
It might sound like I'm advising you to swallow your pride and be the first and maybe the only one to try to understand the other and to apologize. Really, though, you don't have to sacrifice pride at all, and more than that--you shouldn't. In other words, don't think to yourself, "I'm going to be the bigger person and overcome my pride, even if it means I'm the first to apologize." If you think that way, you might win a temporary victory or two, but pride will win in the end. The more you "overcome" pride, the more it will make you resent her for always making you be the one to have to do that, while she takes it for granted that she must be right, because you apologized. Once you start thinking that way, you've really lost the battle to pride, whatever it might look like on the outside, and you'll lose the relationship too.
Instead, the better way to do it, I think, is to make yourself realize that "being the bigger man" doesn't mean you lose something. All it means is you gain something, that thing being extra perspective. Don't say to yourself, "I'm going to apologize to her", just say, "I'm going to understand her better." At that point you don't have to worry anymore, "But what if she won't do the same for me?" What if she won't? You've lost nothing by understanding something a little better that you didn't before. You've sacrificed nothing either. You've only gained something.
So don't start talking to her with the approach, "Listen, I've thought about the other night, and I realize that some things I did were wrong, and other things I did looked wrong to you, and I'm sorry for those things," because as reasonable as that might sound, it means you're making her a concession, and you won't be able to help but see it as a kind of loan in advance of her making similar concessions to you. Instead, I think, your approach should be more like, "I've been thinking about the other night and trying to understand what it felt like for you, and I think I understand a little better than I did at the time," and then discuss it with her and get her to help flesh out her side of things and try to understand it. If she wants to know why it makes a difference to you what her side is, just tell her the truth, which is that you care about her, and it matters to you to understand her point of view. It may sound like it amounts to almost the same thing as apologizing, but it's a different mentality--you're not sacrificing something to her, so you won't need her quid pro quo, so you can be totally sincere about wanting to understand, and she'll pick up on that.
The rest happens by magic: if you really understand someone, you can't stay mad at them. I promise. The proof, if you need it, is that you can never stay mad at yourself. And if you realize--I mean really see it--that what seemed like no big deal from your perspective seemed like a very big deal from someone else's perspective, then you might find yourself apologizing after all, but it won't be a big deal to you, because if you had really understood how a small thing to you was a bigger thing to them, you wouldn't have done it in the first place--that's simple math. So it's not much different apologizing to someone for stepping on their toe. And also, if you really try to understand someone, they will try to understand you too. That's true for enemies--all the more so for someone who loves you.
Well that was long. And also utterly reasonable. I haven't been taking the time in my posts to mention everything that's important because I've become disgruntled about this thread. But the whole "if you can't understand things without my saying them" is right on. I definitely agree with you there. So does modern psychology. Men and women think differently and use language differently.
That's why I'm saying that, not in the abstract but in concrete terms, that I'm just going to say I'm sorry (which needs to be said, even though I'll emphasize that I've tried to put myself in her shoes), mention things I'm sorry about because that will prove to her I thought it through. And after that I'll play it by ear and react according to what she says. Obviously I can't go in there with a list or a plan, as I've mentioned, and start "alright dear, let me list off everything important in this argument from either side and then you may react." AS awesome as that would be.
Empathy is important and I agree that it will work itself out if we're capable of dealing with each other and it will slowly become obvious if we aren't.
Tell her that you understand where she was coming from, and you're sorry (about whatever issue you were in the wrong with). The beauty of this is that whatever the issue is, the line works. but let her know that she should understand where you were coming from and how you felt. I've had fights with my gf and whenever i use this line, she stops, think logically, goes in the bathroom for like 2-3 mins, and then comes back out and we're good. Advice for the future, i'm the type that doesn't like to get into arguments because girls are quite unreasonable (I'm sure most guys agree with me), so if i know something is going to lead into an argument, i wouldn't be a bitch and apologize UNLESS I KNOW I'M WRONG, but i just resolve the first issue so it doesn't lead to more stupid issues to argue over. you're probably a young guy, but trust me it's better to resolve the first issue than to deal with more dumb shit that will drag on and turn something trivial to a lot more trivial things. I also believe that arguments are good for couples, but meaningful arguments that help build your relationship not meaningless ones (like yours, sorry but it's true, this should have easily been resolved when you went to her Apartment). If you really think you can build a relationship with her, you should not give up and find a way to resolve this like a man should. Women, from my experiences, want men to take charge and resolve shit. Hope my advice helped, good luck
Oh yea, if you guys are still ignoring each other, you HAVE TO BE THE ONE to call her, she will not. (This goes back to... women are usually unreasonable). Just tell ask her in a mature tone if you guys can talk. You're younger than her, but it is in your best interest to show and prove that your maturity level is even or higher than hers, it will benefit you. As you said, you guys have been dating for a few months, you're still in her "probation period", so give her the notation that you are mature. It is important that your woman thinks you're mature, not on everything, but the important things. Again, good luck
From your responses to this thread, I can just say that, indeed, you are a total douchebag. Every time someone brought up something you don't like, your automatic response was STFU I'M COOL, I GOT SWAG YOU ARE PATHETIC. And yeah, that was pretty much your reaction to the joke about wearing sunglasses indoor.
On September 20 2011 06:35 Ancestral wrote: There were several pages of people offering criticism and advice. This and the last one weren't, they were people flaunting their moral superiority, saying "yeah you fucked up," which I've been quick to acknowledge. Several of you, however, have been very helpful and I appreciate it.
I don't know if mods close blogs but close this one if you can! Thanks.
I feel like it's common knowledge that if you are in the wrong you should apologize. And when people say they think you are in the wrong, maybe they are infering that you should apologize..
Use your head kid.
Honestly, you got upset over something super trivial. Someone made one minor joke about the sunglasses, suck it up, laugh it off. It was actually pretty funny, and I am sure that in no way she was "attacking" you. I can't believe you are willing to start a fight over something as ridiculous as you not being able to take a joke..
And like prior poster, waiting for a "STFU I AM GOD" reply lolololol
On September 20 2011 06:35 Ancestral wrote: There were several pages of people offering criticism and advice. This and the last one weren't, they were people flaunting their moral superiority, saying "yeah you fucked up," which I've been quick to acknowledge. Several of you, however, have been very helpful and I appreciate it.
I don't know if mods close blogs but close this one if you can! Thanks.
I feel like it's common knowledge that if you are in the wrong you should apologize. And when people say they think you are in the wrong, maybe they are infering that you should apologize..
Use your head kid.
Honestly, you got upset over something super trivial. Someone made one minor joke about the sunglasses, suck it up, laugh it off. It was actually pretty funny, and I am sure that in no way she was "attacking" you. I can't believe you are willing to start a fight over something as ridiculous as you not being able to take a joke..
And like prior poster, waiting for a "STFU I AM GOD" reply lolololol
The guy above you = idiot. You, less so, since you at least addressed the topic, rather than just asserting someone you don't know on the internet is a loser. But I didn't start the fight with her. Please be advised to read the thread. This is a PSA at this point, because I want people to understand they should understand a situation before chiming in.
EPT
