|
playing a series of very very very annoying games.
Had one game where Random opponent went eng bay block (that's when I learned he was terran, nice early eng bay block), 1 rax expo to hidden expo on other side of big map (antiga), to reactor starport mass medivac with marine/marauder hellion and just mass drops.
I can't even express how annoying that game was.
Though, the last one I just payed was even worse, protoss went mass phoenix/mass cannon with cannons at my nat, cannons all over every base (like 10-20 cannons on each of his bases).
I tried the standard response of extra queens and spores - he just made a bunch more phoenix, came in and lifted all my queens and workers and ignored the losses he took from the spores. Constantly killed workers, queens and OLs all game.
I tried corrupters, couldn't make enough fast enough, tried hydras, too slow to respond to anything, tried pushing with mass roach/ling - too many cannons...
He never actually attacked anything all game till he was on like 5 bases - then he made a mothership and like 20 carriers. And just sniped hatcheries and recalled them back to base.
Plus the usual just mass marine/tank off 2 base that's just a pain in the balls to deal with regardless. The worst is it's like diamond players (mostly) doing this stuff. It's like every time my MMR gets high enough to start facing diamond players I end up just facing a 20-30 game run of nothing but cheese, nonstandard annoyance and 1-2 base all-ins. Is this all Diamond consists of????
I guess the flipside of this is, do I have to play like this to get into Diamond? If so - what does Zerg do to play like this?? All my opponents are T or P. :/
  
|
Diamond gets better once you either get up there, or drop from high diamond.
Just keep practicing. Diamond isn't cheesetown.
Although, since you're Zerg, you'll probably be on your way to frown town...
|
Well my suggestion is to watch the replays and ask yourself "what can i do better?"
It can be anything trivial like spotting a hidden expo, or something more important like engaging in a terrible position. Besides, you can't always expect standard play. If you can learn to defend cheese and other non-standard play, it'll just make you a stronger player in the end.
|
There's a reason "standard play" is standard and that is because it is generally better than unorthodox play. If you frequently lose to that then you'll lose even more often when your opponent of the same level plays standard.
Basically what I'm saying is you're not diamond level yet.
|
Just learn how to beat everything, then you are fine.
|
The main issues in the terran game were: he was random so I didn't know what to expect. He sent a SUPER early scout and dropped an eng bay, so unless I'm sending my FIRST OL to my nat to look for that, I'm gonna miss it - or unless I'm sending an uber-early scout myself.
After that, 1rax expo, so he's dropping his hidden expo and I've got like - 4 lings scouting. So, that's 1 for each tower and 1 for his base and 1 running around. Finding the expo was a crap shoot. One I lost.
then he's got like a dozen medivacs dropping marines, maruaders and hellions all over my bases. I just don't have the multitask/apm to deal with multiple drops with very few units, since I'm behind on econ at that point.
I'm finding a trend that I just can't deal with being hatch blocked. It messes me up so HORRIBLY and my macro never recovers.
|
On August 28 2011 08:10 Feartheguru wrote:
There's a reason "standard play" is standard and that is because it is generally better than unorthodox play. If you frequently lose to that then you'll lose even more often when your opponent of the same level plays standard.
Basically what I'm saying is you're not diamond level yet.
7 tiers in diamond. pretty good chance he is, but most people in diamond are still getting over some pretty large problems in their game play which cause them to lose a lot more to cheese. personally I love the cheese in masters. free ladder points 9 times outta 10 
|
On August 28 2011 07:59 Reithan wrote:
Though, the last one I just payed was even worse, protoss went mass phoenix/mass cannon with cannons at my nat, cannons all over every base (like 10-20 cannons on each of his bases).
I tried the standard response of extra queens and spores - he just made a bunch more phoenix, came in and lifted all my queens and workers and ignored the losses he took from the spores. Constantly killed workers, queens and OLs all game.
That guy sounds awesome. And I play Zerg XD upload the replay please.
I don't know what to say other than upload a replay if you want to know what you did wrong. This doesn't sound like non standard play, it sounds like cheesy openings then very good play. If you're asking is this what diamond is like, then yes. It's people using strategies that are difficult to cope with.
On August 28 2011 08:15 Rotodyne wrote:
Just learn how to beat everything, then you are fine.
unless I'm sending an uber-early scout myself.
After that, 1rax expo, so he's dropping his hidden expo and I've got like - 4 lings scouting. So, that's 1 for each tower and 1 for his base and 1 running around. Finding the expo was a crap shoot. One I lost.
Antigas huge. The latest scout you should send is with your 10th drone, if not your 9th. As in rally it from the egg. A lot of this is just bad luck. Sure you could (and verse forge first protoss SHOULD) patrol a drone at the bottom of your ramp every time to prevent this from ever happening. But chances are its not something vs Terran you really need to actively defend against. Most players aren't reliant on abusive openings like walling the bottom of your ramp.
Thank god nobody uses ladder versions of maps :D it's only annoying to deal with this kind of stuff cos I know I can play better maps in cw/koths
Conclusion: I get cheesed way freaking more by platinums with absurd MMRs than Diamonds.
|
diamond like any other league is about winning...
|
On August 28 2011 08:29 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 08:10 Feartheguru wrote:
There's a reason "standard play" is standard and that is because it is generally better than unorthodox play. If you frequently lose to that then you'll lose even more often when your opponent of the same level plays standard.
Basically what I'm saying is you're not diamond level yet. 7 tiers in diamond. pretty good chance he is, but most people in diamond are still getting over some pretty large problems in their game play which cause them to lose a lot more to cheese. personally I love the cheese in masters. free ladder points 9 times outta 10
But you don't ladder. :/
Also I find it ironic that you post in a non standard games thread LOL
@op you can still get wins in diamond by having more stuff. If he's going mass air why not hydras? Or even better, go kill him with roach ling because all he has is a few Phoenix. O.o.
If you have trouble with stupid stuff how do you hold a good 6 gate push?
For the terran game, did you not check his natural and look for an expo? O.o.
I'll practice with you if you'd like (if I ever play) but I don't think getting to masters because there's no cheese orstupid there is valid. 
|
On August 28 2011 08:38 Probe1 wrote:
That guy sounds awesome. And I play Zerg XD upload the replay please.
Thank god nobody uses ladder versions of maps :D it's only annoying to deal with this kind of stuff cos I know I can play better maps in cw/koths
Conclusion: I get cheesed way freaking more by platinums with absurd MMRs than Diamonds.
All my replays are always available here, and what is CW?
|
Oh, and disclaimer, was pretty pissed after a few games like this, so there's a little BM... I kinda drug out that ZvT a little. >.>
|
On August 28 2011 08:43 Juliette wrote:@op you can still get wins in diamond by having more stuff. If he's going mass air why not hydras? Or even better, go kill him with roach ling because all he has is a few Phoenix. O.o. If you have trouble with stupid stuff how do you hold a good 6 gate push? For the terran game, did you not check his natural and look for an expo? O.o. I'll practice with you if you'd like (if I ever play) but I don't think getting to masters because there's no cheese orstupid there is valid.
I did get hydra eventually, but usually I don't go hydra against air, because usually it's just 2-3 phoenix to get you to make hydras, then they crush you with colosuss...
I also did try hitting with roach/ling, but he lifted half my roaches with his 20 phoenix, and the 6 cannons finished everything else off (numbers here are made up, but that's around about what hapened  ).
I did check the terran's nat, even had an OL off to the side there, he never expanded to his nat.
|
Part of the game. Scout better and you will win!
|
You need to learn how to scout and react effectively. No point in saying your opponents just aren't playing right.
|
It's not so much that they're not playing right, it's that I'm not learning right. When you ask for advice/training/coaching/practice/help, people tell you how to beat common openings, how to scout against people who don't scout block, and how to react to common transitions.
And they chant 'macro' and 'scout' like it's a magic spell.
But when the opponent is doing all they can to block scouting: sniping OLs, denying ling scouts, etc, and they're opening with crazy weird non-standard openings, and transitioning to things you've never even seen before....
Everything you've learned and practice is worth NOTHING.
So, I'm not mad at my opponents. I'm mad at me, and I'm mad at me for blindly listening to people's advice on how to get better. I've spent months just practicing macro macro macro macro and trying to learn scouting timings and things...and it's just worthless. I lose in the first 3 minutes to things I wasn't able to scout before I can even get an opening up, much less any sort of real macro.
|
You need to learn timings, aka watch some day9 wednesday frienday and also other pro gamer streams. As zerg you oftentimes can't scout, simply because it will be denied. So you have to make educated guesses quite often. For instance if you scout a factory you don't know if your opponent is going helions or banshee, you just have to figure it out based on what you see. Also, be mindful that if your opponent is over turtling, you can always expand aggressively. Also, in the protoss game you mentioned it seems like he completely outplayed you, even though it was unorthodox. Getting cannon contained into phoenix while taking heavy losses then allowing the 5 base without applying much counter pressure is auto loss. In your terran game you should've just expanded elsewhere and harassed both his main / far away expo like how he was dropping you. If you are struggling against terran 2 base pushes you just need to improve. It is hard to hold but complaining about the difficulty won't make you better. If you want to beat these people you just have to be better, then you won't lose to unorthodox play 20-30 games in a row, but more like every 2-3 out of 20-30.
Edit: Ebay block sucks, there's a reason why high level terrans don't do it. Not only does it mess up the terran's timing it is usually easily avoided. 150 minerals early game is a lot. BTW if your opponent is using phoenixes offensively you can definitely loop around an overseer to check on whether or not he's continuing air production. If he goes for a fast robo bay, regardless of how stupid this sounds, transition into mutaling (it's what Ret does). Or just rush him super quickly with roaches and drop tech, 3 phoenixes kinda sucks.
|
Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining because I want someone to 'fix SC2' or I'm giving up, or anything, I'm still laddering right now. I'm mainly just making observations on what I suck at and venting a little.
Besides, if someone points out something good, maybe I'll be able to make some good improvement or re-focus on something.
|
Just wait till you get to grandmasters...
|
Just played a ZvT on XNC.
Sent my scout at TEN, as suggested, tried to go for 15 hatch.
Terran's already there with the eng bay block. So I pull back, drop pool and gas. He cancels eng bay and drops THREE bunkers at bottom of my ramp to block it. FML.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
