So, I'm sure the majority of you here watched MLG Anaheim. So, I am also sure that you saw the Blue Flame Hellion strats that the Koreans brought with them. To get to the point, I was playing the the weekly Stim.TV Bronze/Silver Tournament, just moments ago, and got put out in the first round. I am a zerg player, and I just want to express my frustration. I'd like to get some of your opinions on how to counter them, other than mass Roach, because they tend to bring quite the contingent of marines with them. You may comment with your opinions, and if you'd like to go in-game, and maybe try to work together to fine a solid defensive opener for this situation, just PM me. Thanks for hearing me out. I <3 you guys here at TL

micronesia

United States24708 Posts

August 02 2011 01:39 GMT

At the bronze-silver level you don't need to find a counter-strategy.... the terran won't have decent macro or micro. Scouting, macro, and halfway decent control will normally own these terrans regardless of whether or not you come up with a counter-strategy.

I'm not trying to say that there's no point in strategizing as someone playing in a bronze/silver tournament... just that you shouldn't approach this from an angle of finding a counter. Of course, feel free to use higher-level zerg players as a model for how to deal with it... maybe some people can recommend replays to you.

Gamegene

United States8308 Posts

August 02 2011 01:40 GMT

M-L-fucking-G man.

It seems protoss gets off easy from the metagame, because for me TvT has become blue flame hellion wars. Believe me even though I'm trying to kill zergies like you with the same boxer drop, I feel your pain.

Malgrif

Canada1095 Posts

August 02 2011 01:44 GMT

fucken hell i hate tvt now, everything is about Blue fucken flame fucken hellions on the ladder... WHAT THE FUCK KOREA Y U WRECK NA LADDER

SG_Ruukasu

United States17 Posts

August 02 2011 01:47 GMT

Thanks for the comments, and I under stand what your saying about the lack of micro and macro in the lower leagues micronesia, but I still would feel more comfortable, if I knew a legitimate way to deter the Terran from using this strategy, other than just using Roaches to fend them off, because that tends to mess up my late game, which I pride myself on being a sufficient late game player, but I tend to struggle more with the early game. Maybe I should just change up my style to accommodate for the Roaches? or possibly it could be the scouting, I would have to get someone to watch me play to really know, but if anyone sees any replays in regards to this topic, please post a link to it here, so maybe people of lower level such as myself, can find a newer style to emulate, to guard against the new Terran play.

SG_Ruukasu

United States17 Posts

August 02 2011 01:48 GMT

and I wouldn't even know what TvT would be like, I just know as Zerg, Blue Flame Hellions can send you to the proverbial "FrownTown" in a hurry :p

micronesia

United States24708 Posts

August 02 2011 01:50 GMT

Yeah definitely one of the skills I had to develop a lot in bw and sc2 was increasing my versatility of transitions... the cool thing about that is you can do a lot of 'training' with that by just laddering and being reflective without even having to incorporate the advice of others... not that collaborating is BAD of course.

Gamegene

United States8308 Posts

August 02 2011 01:52 GMT

On August 02 2011 10:48 ElevatedSC2 wrote:
and I wouldn't even know what TvT would be like, I just know as Zerg, Blue Flame Hellions can send you to the proverbial "FrownTown" in a hurry :p

That feeling you get when you see lines of drones roast like kabobs on a stick?
Yeah I'm pretty used to it now too.

SG_Ruukasu

United States17 Posts

August 02 2011 01:53 GMT

Yeah I totally agree, I currently got serious about getting better, and I have already climbed to the top of my division, well top 8 due to my inability to play as much as some, but I have gotten a lot better. I like people giving me constructive criticism, It's just one way i really learn well.

SG_Ruukasu

United States17 Posts

August 02 2011 01:54 GMT

#10

On August 02 2011 10:52 Gamegene wrote:

Show nested quote +

That feeling you get when you see lines of drones roast like kabobs on a stick?
Yeah I'm pretty used to it now too.

>_< that feeling hurts soooo much

Baby_Seal

United States360 Posts

August 02 2011 02:01 GMT

#11

my post was off topic, so removed.

GigaFlop

United States1146 Posts

August 02 2011 02:58 GMT

#12

dont say that H or BF word.... Please... My headache just got worse! can anyone give headache advice? I've been drinking more water tonight than I did all of last week...

In other news, tell Sympatico: "less arms"

Also, I find hellions easy to deal with when I have burrowed banelings and/or roaches. I maek roach, roach good unit. Besides, even +1 armor makes roaches very resilient to marines. I love nothing more than seeing that green acid fly and disintegrate marines/hellions/other roaches/whatever I can kill.

emc

United States3088 Posts

August 02 2011 03:08 GMT

#13

TvT just evolved into mech play, it was inevitable because hellions are mobile and a mineral dump and siege tanks are amazing. Korea just caught on first and NA is lagging behind on the trend which figures why only players like qxc was doing the mech builds because he was in korea learning the builds. Mech beats out bio any day and air control is always necessary which is why mech is just the new TvT strategy.

Then again, you don't have people like polt prime in MLG shifting the meta game with unique hidden marauders and other builds that people don't expect.

Rasun

United States787 Posts

August 02 2011 03:11 GMT

#14

I'm opening roach as standard right now in TvZ, thanks a lot MVP, MMA and Boxer! (jking I could never be mad at you Emperor, I'm your loyal subject.)

Dice17

United States520 Posts

August 02 2011 03:16 GMT

#15

Micro and macro come first but roach baneling should do well

garlicface

Canada4196 Posts

August 02 2011 03:39 GMT

#16

I'll recommend something that's a bit easier - earlier and sturdier sim city.

Lay a creep tumor with your first queen's 2nd round of energy. When it gets near a choke (walls, doodads, etc.) start narrowing the choke even more with 1-2 evo chamber(s) and a roach warren if you haven't already started it.

--It's best to do a light roach opening in ZvT these days anyways, just to play it safe.--

Fill in the gap a bit more with 2 spine crawlers, and you should be set. A third queen (on 2 bases) will really help you out. A) you'll be able to spread more creep, B) it can help you defend vs hellions nicely, and C) it can also clog the choke.

tl;dr You can sit on hatch tech for a while with a small roach count. Spread your creep ASAP so you can start making smaller chokes (particularly at your nat) with buildings + spines. Send ovies out to watch for drops into your main.

SG_Ruukasu

United States17 Posts

August 02 2011 03:59 GMT

#17

Thanks guys, your suggestions are appreciated, <3 you guys :D

Toysrme

1 Post

August 02 2011 10:37 GMT

#18

Best advice I can give a zerg is scout & make roaches:
1) Quick roaches wipe the floor with most 1 rax, FE into 10'ish rax builds
2) Roaches vs Hellions in the lower leagues. isn't close if you can keep the roach count about even. hellions have crap dps. they can do pretty well as meat for tanks if you move them point blank in the engagement so you're splashing multiple units (vs attack moving them and they only hit one unit at their max range)

In low leagues it doesn't matter what you do. Go see the thread where the guy just made macro stalkers & A-moved his opponents bases & went from bronze to diamond with only a couple losses.

just do whatever it takes to keep your money low

SG_Ruukasu

United States17 Posts

August 02 2011 18:09 GMT

#19

Yeah, Toysrme, from what I've been hearing from everyone, I just need to get a Roach Warren asap, and then get a few out, and I should be able to hold of most pressure, if I use them even remotely in the correct way, such as plugging a ramp, and spreading them out properly to keep them from getting behind me

Blazinghand

United States25552 Posts

August 02 2011 18:27 GMT

#20

On August 03 2011 03:09 ElevatedSC2 wrote:
Yeah, Toysrme, from what I've been hearing from everyone, I just need to get a Roach Warren asap, and then get a few out, and I should be able to hold of most pressure, if I use them even remotely in the correct way, such as plugging a ramp, and spreading them out properly to keep them from getting behind me

Spare queens are also quite good. Many terrans like to follow up with banshees and the like, and queens can also help with transfuses and increased creep spread.