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MLG DQ policies

Blogs > LuckyFool
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LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-30 16:06:42
July 30 2011 15:37 GMT
#1
As many of you might have heard White-Ra was disqualified from his open winners round 2 match in MLG Anaheim early last night for showing up 1 minute too late for his match. He shows up at 10:50 local time for a match that was scheduled at 10:40 local time, MLG gives 10 minutes grace period to show up and White-Ra shows up in the last minute of his window. 90% of the rest of round 2 is still in game 1 as White-Ra is talking to an MLG ref who basically says sorry dude next time don't be late. How did this happen? Is something like this preventable?

Open bracket winners round 1 takes 4 hours alone to complete. There are over 200+ players trying to play matches on 35 or 40 stations. Open round 1 is like 4 rounds, if you play in the first wave of round 1 your usually told to come back in 3 or 4 hours, most of the time players will go eat, rest in hotel room, go elsewhere to clear mind or escape noise of the main playing area. Now after a 4 hour break sometimes you might be slightly late for a match or something happens, especially with such a fan friendly player like white-ra. He could have given himself 15 minutes but as he's walking in 5 fans ask for autographs, you know white-ra, there's no way in hell he'd deny autographs. ever. There have been other issues where somebody gets stuck in an elevator which makes them 10 minutes late for a match, gg no re...

In Columbus Catz and Pokebunny were actually notified to show at the wrong time by (someone, mlg ref or friend?) Pokebunny shows up what he thought was going to be early for his match and Agh has already been awarded the win because he was told his match was at noon local time when it was actually 11am. Catz was slated to play JulyZerg but shows up 20 minutes late because there was a communication issue when his match start time was. These are just the notable names that have had issues. There are plenty of unknown players who get screwed too. It's especially bad sometimes early on Saturday in the losers bracket if a local player gets stuck in traffic even for 10 minutes that means elimination from the event. Losers round 1 is scheduled to start in a couple hours from now, how many people get stuck in an elevator or show up 1 minute late for their match this morning? O_o

As major top tier players keep getting disqualified out of MLG events for things like this I wonder to myself, should MLG rethink their disqualifying procedures? White-ra explains his situation in this vid + Show Spoiler +


Now looking at it from MLG's point of view, it's imperative to stay on schedule, when you have hundreds of matches to play in a 3 day event, you cannot get delayed too far behind schedule. Day 1 open bracket action always stretches into 2am local time as it is when things proceed on schedule. I think MLG should consider White-Ra's recommendation and also consider how dreamhack and WCG operate with players showing late. After 15 minutes treat it like 1 game was played and award the player waiting with a 1 game forfeit win, after another 15 minutes it's a 2-0 forfeit. 10 minutes for the entire match seems a little absurd to me. Each round is given a 1 hour slot to play so if a player does not show and is a full 30 minutes late they will be marked with a 2-0 loss and the match is still done long before the rest of the round and even longer before avilos match is avilo if playing in the event. (rofl) Sure this means the player waiting has to sit around for 30 minutes but hey browsing TL for 15 minutes while getting a win at an MLG event not too bad right?

Sure if you don't show up for a match you ought to be disqualified but I really think MLG should rethink their disqualifying procedures, also EVERY MLG ref should know the schedule inside and out and any schedule changes should be CLEARLY communicated to all. When Catz and Pokebunny left the convention center in Columbus asking what time to show up for the match tomorrow and the ref(or a friend of ref?) tells them an incorrect time, this is just a problem of miscommunication. Clearly its hard keeping everyone on the same page but I feel its quite important to prevent things like this because these players WANT to play their games they fly in from all parts of the world, they have fans who are following their progress in the bracket...that want to see games played! DQ's like this is a lose-lose for everyone (except maybe the guy who whitera was supposed to play... lul) Events like this are huge and insanely difficult to run even with an army of staff members, but I think MLG should review their DQ policies to help make future MLG event's successful for all. I don't think anyone on MLG staff wanted to see something like this happen but rules are rules every competitor should be treated equally.

Edit: also an interesting quote from thorzain about playing in the open bracket:

+ Show Spoiler +
"Well on the first day we played until 3 AM and had to be at the venue again at 9-10 the next day, so we could only sleep for around 5 hours.

Their schedule wasn't followed at all. It could say that you would play in 5 minutes when you in fact would play in 55 minutes. It could also say that you had to play in 1 hour but you could have to play in 5 minutes. That lead to the constant fear of leaving the venue because even if it said that it was an hour until the next match i risked being DQd every time i left.

Also we werent very well respected by the admins. For example when i was gonna play vs qxc in the open bracket I had just finished another bo3 and was called to go play vs him. I went to the station and just said that I had to go to the bathroom and get something to drink because I was dehydrated (There was only dr.pepper in the venue and since it was unsafe to leave that's all i drank that day), but they told me I wasn't allowed to and had to play immediately, even though the game wasn't showed anywhere. There were no time to warm up before any of the games, we only had time to do our settings and then jump right in the game, even at those times we were ahead of schedule.

The only break we had was on the first day, friday, for around 1 hour. There were no breaks on Saturday or Sunday so I couldn't even eat. All i had on Sunday was french fries which i bought right after one of my games at the food court just outside the hall, and even then I was told that I was late when i returned.

At the last day, Sunday, i bought a lot of water and had in my backpack so that made it a lot easier, and made me actually able to play good on that day.

Some guys that have been at other MLGs told me that it was the worst MLG so far, organization-wise.

The seeded players had it better, they had computers to play on, places to sit and water and food inside the venue. Of course it's understandable that they can't do that for everyone in the open bracket, so I'm not complaining about that.

That's why I probably won't go to MLG Anaheim unless I'm seeded."


The schedule times are always changing yet if you're ever 10 minutes late you're done. Such a small window given for players. T_T

****
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
July 30 2011 15:43 GMT
#2
after such good work on most things its sad that things like this ruin MLG for some
FreshNoThyme
Profile Joined March 2008
United States356 Posts
July 30 2011 15:44 GMT
#3
On July 31 2011 00:37 LuckyFool wrote:
As many of you might have heard White-Ra was disqualified from his open winners round 2 match in MLG Anaheim early last night for showing up 1 minute late for his match. He shows up at 10:50 local time for a match that was scheduled at 10:40 local time.


Might want to edit that. A bit misleading, I guess.
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
July 30 2011 15:44 GMT
#4
On July 31 2011 00:44 RANDOMCL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2011 00:37 LuckyFool wrote:
As many of you might have heard White-Ra was disqualified from his open winners round 2 match in MLG Anaheim early last night for showing up 1 minute late for his match. He shows up at 10:50 local time for a match that was scheduled at 10:40 local time.


Might want to edit that. A bit misleading, I guess.


Oh he was 1 minute late beyond the grace period of 10 minutes that MLG gives currently, sorry!
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
July 30 2011 15:47 GMT
#5
White-Ra will not miss any more matches this MLG. This fan will make sure of that.
Thank God and gunrun.
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9103 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-30 15:50:52
July 30 2011 15:47 GMT
#6
It's absolutely horrible that MLG DQ's for being 10 minutes late. If they want to make arrival time very strict, perhaps do 10 minutes for 1-0, and 20 minutes for a full 2-0 walkover. So, does this mean White-Ra doesn't even get to play in the loser bracket I gather? nvm

I hope they change the rules for being late in the future.

edit: ah ok thanks for clearing that up LuckyFool, that's good at least
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
July 30 2011 15:48 GMT
#7
White-ra can play in the loser bracket and will be today.
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
July 30 2011 15:51 GMT
#8
Posted about this in the OB thread, but I'll repost my opinion here.

With all the horror stories in the past about players being misinformed or mishearing their scheduled times, it was inevitable that it would happen again at Anaheim. I think DJwheat mentioned on one of his podcasts that this whole issue could be prevented if players were just given buzzers or texted/paged when their next match is about to begin.
"See you space cowboy"
InToTheWannaB
Profile Joined September 2002
United States4770 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-30 15:57:49
July 30 2011 15:56 GMT
#9
MLG needs to let the refs have more leeway in making calls of when to break some rules. If you know a rounds going to last 2 hours anyway 10 min extra won't hurt much. They just needs to let the refs look at a situation and make a call. Sure this can bring up other problems were you have bad refs making poor decisions but you dont ask those refs back. Sooner or later you get a good set of refs and everything works smooth. That or they can just hire Xeris and never have any problems.
When the spirit is not altogether slain, great loss teaches men and women to desire greatly, both for themselves and for others.
awu25
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2003 Posts
July 30 2011 15:59 GMT
#10
So White-ra knew what time his match was, and still showed up late? I sympathize for people last time when they were given the wrong time, but he should know the rules. But the rules should definitely get changed to be more lenient
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
July 30 2011 16:00 GMT
#11
Wow that sucks. I think if its simply a player is late than the other gets a walk over. Hard and fast rule, I can live with that.

But being told to be somewhere at a certain time, then showing up at the time you were told and the other player getting a walk over is ludicrous and dumbfounding. The player who is "late" should be able to play his match.

That is unacceptable.

Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
July 30 2011 16:01 GMT
#12
Are you competing LuckyFool?
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
FreshNoThyme
Profile Joined March 2008
United States356 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-30 16:02:56
July 30 2011 16:01 GMT
#13
On July 31 2011 00:47 Jonoman92 wrote:
It's absolutely horrible that MLG DQ's for being 10 minutes late. If they want to make arrival time very strict, perhaps do 10 minutes for 1-0, and 20 minutes for a full 2-0 walkover. So, does this mean White-Ra doesn't even get to play in the loser bracket I gather? nvm

I hope they change the rules for being late in the future.

edit: ah ok thanks for clearing that up LuckyFool, that's good at least


Having assisted in running large events (1,000-5,000 attendees), allowing players grace periods causes massive problems. Entire tournaments (tournaments within events; referring to fighting games here, and most events are multiple games; I am referring to singular games within the entire event) have had to be cancelled because players showing up even 5 minutes late continually pushed the previous events too far back. I've seen events cancel 1/4 or more of their events simply because players showed up too late.

Yeah, a degree of leniency is needed, and extremely unique situations must be accounted for, but in reality, letting one player show up late allows all players to show up late, which can cause 10+ hour delays (trust me, I've seen it over a dozen times in 10+ years of being involved with these events).

EDIT: This is referring to the general idea of "showing up late", not White-Ra's case in particular. I am not commenting on that because I am not familiar with how MLG operates or SC2 in general.
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
July 30 2011 16:01 GMT
#14
Yes, they should probably change it to a game 1 loss after 10 minutes and a game 2 loss after 20 or something, but being late when you know when your match is is completely on you.

Also, the pokebunny/catz stuff is misinformation. They were misinformed by a friend or somebody random, not a ref.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
deepfield1
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States373 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-30 16:04:11
July 30 2011 16:03 GMT
#15
yeah instant match DQ is pretty harsh..



Bortlett
Profile Joined October 2010
United States302 Posts
July 30 2011 16:05 GMT
#16
There definitely should be scheduled lunch/dinner breaks so that players can get water, something to eat, etc. No player should be forced to try and scarf down something that a friend got them in 5 minutes. Water should also always be available for players, and they should be given time to use the bathroom in between games or matches as needed.

However, I don't have much sympathy for players being late. At Columbus, from what I understand, there was an official place players could go to get their next match (NOT refs). You should ask multiple people when your next game is, not just one person, and be very early so that you know you will be there on time. People make mistakes, but at the end of the day, it's the player's responsibility to be on time.
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-30 16:07:25
July 30 2011 16:05 GMT
#17
On July 31 2011 01:01 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Yes, they should probably change it to a game 1 loss after 10 minutes and a game 2 loss after 20 or something, but being late when you know when your match is is completely on you.

Also, the pokebunny/catz stuff is misinformation. They were misinformed by a friend or somebody random, not a ref.


I was told it was a ref, I'll change that part of the post then if I'm wrong.

On July 31 2011 01:01 DyEnasTy wrote:
Are you competing LuckyFool?


Not this one but I'll be competing at the rest of the MLG events this year.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
July 30 2011 16:05 GMT
#18
Last year, didn't people suggest the idea that the Koreans got a lot of leniency for arriving late and such?

Whether true or not, this is probably the backhand of it all. No leniency for any player, regardless of stature.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
July 30 2011 16:07 GMT
#19
On July 31 2011 01:05 LuckyFool wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2011 01:01 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Yes, they should probably change it to a game 1 loss after 10 minutes and a game 2 loss after 20 or something, but being late when you know when your match is is completely on you.

Also, the pokebunny/catz stuff is misinformation. They were misinformed by a friend or somebody random, not a ref.


I was told it was a ref, I'll change that part of the post then if I'm wrong.

Show nested quote +
On July 31 2011 01:01 DyEnasTy wrote:
Are you competing LuckyFool?


Not this one but I'll be competing at the rest of the MLG events this year.



are you attending then?
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-30 16:15:05
July 30 2011 16:10 GMT
#20
On July 31 2011 01:07 DyEnasTy wrote:

are you attending then?


no I am not attending this MLG, lol !

I am getting information from people I know who are there right now who dont have time to post in detail.

On July 31 2011 01:05 Torte de Lini wrote:
Last year, didn't people suggest the idea that the Koreans got a lot of leniency for arriving late and such?

Whether true or not, this is probably the backhand of it all. No leniency for any player, regardless of stature.


They let Koreans into the convention center 5 hours before anyone else in columbus and reserved 6 pc's for the 5 of them and those 6 pc's weren't even hardly used because they were signing autographs and elsewhere haha, but they deserve special treatment no? It's kind of hard to use the "everyone gets treated equally" card though when things like that are done. ^_^
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