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As many of you might have heard White-Ra was disqualified from his open winners round 2 match in MLG Anaheim early last night for showing up 1 minute too late for his match. He shows up at 10:50 local time for a match that was scheduled at 10:40 local time, MLG gives 10 minutes grace period to show up and White-Ra shows up in the last minute of his window. 90% of the rest of round 2 is still in game 1 as White-Ra is talking to an MLG ref who basically says sorry dude next time don't be late. How did this happen? Is something like this preventable?
Open bracket winners round 1 takes 4 hours alone to complete. There are over 200+ players trying to play matches on 35 or 40 stations. Open round 1 is like 4 rounds, if you play in the first wave of round 1 your usually told to come back in 3 or 4 hours, most of the time players will go eat, rest in hotel room, go elsewhere to clear mind or escape noise of the main playing area. Now after a 4 hour break sometimes you might be slightly late for a match or something happens, especially with such a fan friendly player like white-ra. He could have given himself 15 minutes but as he's walking in 5 fans ask for autographs, you know white-ra, there's no way in hell he'd deny autographs. ever. There have been other issues where somebody gets stuck in an elevator which makes them 10 minutes late for a match, gg no re...
In Columbus Catz and Pokebunny were actually notified to show at the wrong time by (someone, mlg ref or friend?) Pokebunny shows up what he thought was going to be early for his match and Agh has already been awarded the win because he was told his match was at noon local time when it was actually 11am. Catz was slated to play JulyZerg but shows up 20 minutes late because there was a communication issue when his match start time was. These are just the notable names that have had issues. There are plenty of unknown players who get screwed too. It's especially bad sometimes early on Saturday in the losers bracket if a local player gets stuck in traffic even for 10 minutes that means elimination from the event. Losers round 1 is scheduled to start in a couple hours from now, how many people get stuck in an elevator or show up 1 minute late for their match this morning? O_o
As major top tier players keep getting disqualified out of MLG events for things like this I wonder to myself, should MLG rethink their disqualifying procedures? White-ra explains his situation in this vid + Show Spoiler +
Now looking at it from MLG's point of view, it's imperative to stay on schedule, when you have hundreds of matches to play in a 3 day event, you cannot get delayed too far behind schedule. Day 1 open bracket action always stretches into 2am local time as it is when things proceed on schedule. I think MLG should consider White-Ra's recommendation and also consider how dreamhack and WCG operate with players showing late. After 15 minutes treat it like 1 game was played and award the player waiting with a 1 game forfeit win, after another 15 minutes it's a 2-0 forfeit. 10 minutes for the entire match seems a little absurd to me. Each round is given a 1 hour slot to play so if a player does not show and is a full 30 minutes late they will be marked with a 2-0 loss and the match is still done long before the rest of the round and even longer before avilos match is avilo if playing in the event. (rofl) Sure this means the player waiting has to sit around for 30 minutes but hey browsing TL for 15 minutes while getting a win at an MLG event not too bad right?
Sure if you don't show up for a match you ought to be disqualified but I really think MLG should rethink their disqualifying procedures, also EVERY MLG ref should know the schedule inside and out and any schedule changes should be CLEARLY communicated to all. When Catz and Pokebunny left the convention center in Columbus asking what time to show up for the match tomorrow and the ref(or a friend of ref?) tells them an incorrect time, this is just a problem of miscommunication. Clearly its hard keeping everyone on the same page but I feel its quite important to prevent things like this because these players WANT to play their games they fly in from all parts of the world, they have fans who are following their progress in the bracket...that want to see games played! DQ's like this is a lose-lose for everyone (except maybe the guy who whitera was supposed to play... lul) Events like this are huge and insanely difficult to run even with an army of staff members, but I think MLG should review their DQ policies to help make future MLG event's successful for all. I don't think anyone on MLG staff wanted to see something like this happen but rules are rules every competitor should be treated equally.
Edit: also an interesting quote from thorzain about playing in the open bracket:
+ Show Spoiler + "Well on the first day we played until 3 AM and had to be at the venue again at 9-10 the next day, so we could only sleep for around 5 hours.
Their schedule wasn't followed at all. It could say that you would play in 5 minutes when you in fact would play in 55 minutes. It could also say that you had to play in 1 hour but you could have to play in 5 minutes. That lead to the constant fear of leaving the venue because even if it said that it was an hour until the next match i risked being DQd every time i left.
Also we werent very well respected by the admins. For example when i was gonna play vs qxc in the open bracket I had just finished another bo3 and was called to go play vs him. I went to the station and just said that I had to go to the bathroom and get something to drink because I was dehydrated (There was only dr.pepper in the venue and since it was unsafe to leave that's all i drank that day), but they told me I wasn't allowed to and had to play immediately, even though the game wasn't showed anywhere. There were no time to warm up before any of the games, we only had time to do our settings and then jump right in the game, even at those times we were ahead of schedule.
The only break we had was on the first day, friday, for around 1 hour. There were no breaks on Saturday or Sunday so I couldn't even eat. All i had on Sunday was french fries which i bought right after one of my games at the food court just outside the hall, and even then I was told that I was late when i returned.
At the last day, Sunday, i bought a lot of water and had in my backpack so that made it a lot easier, and made me actually able to play good on that day.
Some guys that have been at other MLGs told me that it was the worst MLG so far, organization-wise.
The seeded players had it better, they had computers to play on, places to sit and water and food inside the venue. Of course it's understandable that they can't do that for everyone in the open bracket, so I'm not complaining about that.
That's why I probably won't go to MLG Anaheim unless I'm seeded."
The schedule times are always changing yet if you're ever 10 minutes late you're done. Such a small window given for players. T_T
 
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after such good work on most things its sad that things like this ruin MLG for some
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On July 31 2011 00:37 LuckyFool wrote:
As many of you might have heard White-Ra was disqualified from his open winners round 2 match in MLG Anaheim early last night for showing up 1 minute late for his match. He shows up at 10:50 local time for a match that was scheduled at 10:40 local time.
Might want to edit that. A bit misleading, I guess.
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On July 31 2011 00:44 RANDOMCL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 00:37 LuckyFool wrote:
As many of you might have heard White-Ra was disqualified from his open winners round 2 match in MLG Anaheim early last night for showing up 1 minute late for his match. He shows up at 10:50 local time for a match that was scheduled at 10:40 local time. Might want to edit that. A bit misleading, I guess.
Oh he was 1 minute late beyond the grace period of 10 minutes that MLG gives currently, sorry!
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White-Ra will not miss any more matches this MLG. This fan will make sure of that.
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It's absolutely horrible that MLG DQ's for being 10 minutes late. If they want to make arrival time very strict, perhaps do 10 minutes for 1-0, and 20 minutes for a full 2-0 walkover. So, does this mean White-Ra doesn't even get to play in the loser bracket I gather? nvm
I hope they change the rules for being late in the future.
edit: ah ok thanks for clearing that up LuckyFool, that's good at least
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White-ra can play in the loser bracket and will be today.
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Posted about this in the OB thread, but I'll repost my opinion here.
With all the horror stories in the past about players being misinformed or mishearing their scheduled times, it was inevitable that it would happen again at Anaheim. I think DJwheat mentioned on one of his podcasts that this whole issue could be prevented if players were just given buzzers or texted/paged when their next match is about to begin.
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MLG needs to let the refs have more leeway in making calls of when to break some rules. If you know a rounds going to last 2 hours anyway 10 min extra won't hurt much. They just needs to let the refs look at a situation and make a call. Sure this can bring up other problems were you have bad refs making poor decisions but you dont ask those refs back. Sooner or later you get a good set of refs and everything works smooth. That or they can just hire Xeris and never have any problems.
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So White-ra knew what time his match was, and still showed up late? I sympathize for people last time when they were given the wrong time, but he should know the rules. But the rules should definitely get changed to be more lenient
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Wow that sucks. I think if its simply a player is late than the other gets a walk over. Hard and fast rule, I can live with that.
But being told to be somewhere at a certain time, then showing up at the time you were told and the other player getting a walk over is ludicrous and dumbfounding. The player who is "late" should be able to play his match.
That is unacceptable.
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Are you competing LuckyFool?
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On July 31 2011 00:47 Jonoman92 wrote:
It's absolutely horrible that MLG DQ's for being 10 minutes late. If they want to make arrival time very strict, perhaps do 10 minutes for 1-0, and 20 minutes for a full 2-0 walkover. So, does this mean White-Ra doesn't even get to play in the loser bracket I gather? nvm
I hope they change the rules for being late in the future.
edit: ah ok thanks for clearing that up LuckyFool, that's good at least
Having assisted in running large events (1,000-5,000 attendees), allowing players grace periods causes massive problems. Entire tournaments (tournaments within events; referring to fighting games here, and most events are multiple games; I am referring to singular games within the entire event) have had to be cancelled because players showing up even 5 minutes late continually pushed the previous events too far back. I've seen events cancel 1/4 or more of their events simply because players showed up too late.
Yeah, a degree of leniency is needed, and extremely unique situations must be accounted for, but in reality, letting one player show up late allows all players to show up late, which can cause 10+ hour delays (trust me, I've seen it over a dozen times in 10+ years of being involved with these events).
EDIT: This is referring to the general idea of "showing up late", not White-Ra's case in particular. I am not commenting on that because I am not familiar with how MLG operates or SC2 in general.
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Yes, they should probably change it to a game 1 loss after 10 minutes and a game 2 loss after 20 or something, but being late when you know when your match is is completely on you.
Also, the pokebunny/catz stuff is misinformation. They were misinformed by a friend or somebody random, not a ref.
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yeah instant match DQ is pretty harsh..
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There definitely should be scheduled lunch/dinner breaks so that players can get water, something to eat, etc. No player should be forced to try and scarf down something that a friend got them in 5 minutes. Water should also always be available for players, and they should be given time to use the bathroom in between games or matches as needed.
However, I don't have much sympathy for players being late. At Columbus, from what I understand, there was an official place players could go to get their next match (NOT refs). You should ask multiple people when your next game is, not just one person, and be very early so that you know you will be there on time. People make mistakes, but at the end of the day, it's the player's responsibility to be on time.
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On July 31 2011 01:01 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Yes, they should probably change it to a game 1 loss after 10 minutes and a game 2 loss after 20 or something, but being late when you know when your match is is completely on you.
Also, the pokebunny/catz stuff is misinformation. They were misinformed by a friend or somebody random, not a ref.
I was told it was a ref, I'll change that part of the post then if I'm wrong.
On July 31 2011 01:01 DyEnasTy wrote:
Are you competing LuckyFool?
Not this one but I'll be competing at the rest of the MLG events this year.
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Last year, didn't people suggest the idea that the Koreans got a lot of leniency for arriving late and such?
Whether true or not, this is probably the backhand of it all. No leniency for any player, regardless of stature.
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On July 31 2011 01:05 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 01:01 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Yes, they should probably change it to a game 1 loss after 10 minutes and a game 2 loss after 20 or something, but being late when you know when your match is is completely on you.
Also, the pokebunny/catz stuff is misinformation. They were misinformed by a friend or somebody random, not a ref. I was told it was a ref, I'll change that part of the post then if I'm wrong. Not this one but I'll be competing at the rest of the MLG events this year.
are you attending then?
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On July 31 2011 01:07 DyEnasTy wrote:
are you attending then?
no I am not attending this MLG, lol !
I am getting information from people I know who are there right now who dont have time to post in detail. 
On July 31 2011 01:05 Torte de Lini wrote:
Last year, didn't people suggest the idea that the Koreans got a lot of leniency for arriving late and such?
Whether true or not, this is probably the backhand of it all. No leniency for any player, regardless of stature.
They let Koreans into the convention center 5 hours before anyone else in columbus and reserved 6 pc's for the 5 of them and those 6 pc's weren't even hardly used because they were signing autographs and elsewhere haha, but they deserve special treatment no? It's kind of hard to use the "everyone gets treated equally" card though when things like that are done. ^_^
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hey but if you give em 3 million theyll raise the prize pool slightly...
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HAha White-Ra is so cool !
Check the first minute of the video where he says the MLG ref forcefielded him rofl
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meh, the player should be responsible to know when and where he has to be, and get their a couple of minutes early just to be safe.
MLG should not have to babysit people, especially if this guy is considered a professional. If you have to be at a certain place at a certain time be their. And the thread is incredibly misleading, he was not 1 minute late, he was 11 minutes late. If they give you a 10 minute grace period, that IS mlg being lenient. What do you want them to do? Give out a 30 minute grace period and have their entire tournament run late because guys decide to just not be responsible and show up 20 minutes late knowing it does not matter?
This is a 3-day tournament that consists of a 256 player double elimination bracket. Not to mention 2 other titles are also being played...you try running that shit in 3 days with the attitude of "hey don't worry if you are late to your station, we'll let you play anyway"
You have to be strict so players know you are serious and take the initiative to make sure they know where they need to be. Stop thinking that 1 guy getting DQ'd means they need to change their attitude, when their attitude is the reason that every other guy shows up on time and ready to play.
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On July 31 2011 01:10 LuckyFool wrote:no I am not attending this MLG, lol ! I am getting information from people I know who are there right now who dont have time to post in detail. Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 01:05 Torte de Lini wrote:
Last year, didn't people suggest the idea that the Koreans got a lot of leniency for arriving late and such?
Whether true or not, this is probably the backhand of it all. No leniency for any player, regardless of stature. They let Koreans into the convention center 5 hours before anyone else in columbus and reserved 6 pc's for the 5 of them and those 6 pc's weren't even hardly used because they were signing autographs and elsewhere haha, but they deserve special treatment no? It's kind of hard to use the "everyone gets treated equally" card though when things like that are done. ^_^
That is simply wrong. Red Carpet for koreans, the shaft for everyone else.
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On July 31 2011 01:17 zFugitivE wrote:
meh, the player should be responsible to know when and where he has to be, and get their a couple of minutes early just to be safe.
MLG should not have to babysit people, especially if this guy is considered a professional. If you have to be at a certain place at a certain time be their. And the thread is incredibly misleading, he was not 1 minute late, he was 11 minutes late. If they give you a 10 minute grace period, that IS mlg being lenient. What do you want them to do? Give out a 30 minute grace period and have their entire tournament run late because guys decide to just not be responsible and show up 20 minutes late knowing it does not matter?
This is a 3-day tournament that consists of a 256 player double elimination bracket. Not to mention 2 other titles are also being played...you try running that shit in 3 days with the attitude of "hey don't worry if you are late to your station, we'll let you play anyway"
You have to be strict so players know you are serious and take the initiative to make sure they know where they need to be. Stop thinking that 1 guy getting DQ'd means they need to change their attitude, when their attitude is the reason that every other guy shows up on time and ready to play.
Have you ever been at one of these events with hundreds of fans? There's a lot of things that could cause delay. 10 minutes isn't a long time. It's not even long enough for a game. It's ridiculous that you think time late for match = time tournament is delayed when that's not even remotely true.
Also, I don't think you even read the suggested alternative. Read the OP, seriously. No one said 30 minute grace period. They said 15 minute = 1 loss, 30 minute = DQ. That's reasonable, and players still understand there are consequences.
As for delay of tournament, 15 minutes is pretty standard for a game. There's no way 30 minutes for a match would delay the tournament as much as a 90 minute TvT match would do.
Oh, and it hasn't just been 1 guy getting DQed. There have been multiple DQs, and if you read Thorzain's account, it's extremely hectic and unnerving. Yeah, something needs to be done. But hey! You would only know that if you actually read the thread! penguin. Did you read this post?
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On July 31 2011 01:17 zFugitivE wrote:
meh, the player should be responsible to know when and where he has to be, and get their a couple of minutes early just to be safe.
MLG should not have to babysit people, especially if this guy is considered a professional. If you have to be at a certain place at a certain time be their. And the thread is incredibly misleading, he was not 1 minute late, he was 11 minutes late. If they give you a 10 minute grace period, that IS mlg being lenient. What do you want them to do? Give out a 30 minute grace period and have their entire tournament run late because guys decide to just not be responsible and show up 20 minutes late knowing it does not matter?
This is a 3-day tournament that consists of a 256 player double elimination bracket. Not to mention 2 other titles are also being played...you try running that shit in 3 days with the attitude of "hey don't worry if you are late to your station, we'll let you play anyway"
You have to be strict so players know you are serious and take the initiative to make sure they know where they need to be. Stop thinking that 1 guy getting DQ'd means they need to change their attitude, when their attitude is the reason that every other guy shows up on time and ready to play.
Whats it like to know you typed this long post just to look like a moron?
User was warned for this post
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On July 31 2011 01:17 zFugitivE wrote:
meh, the player should be responsible to know when and where he has to be, and get their a couple of minutes early just to be safe.
MLG should not have to babysit people, especially if this guy is considered a professional. If you have to be at a certain place at a certain time be their. And the thread is incredibly misleading, he was not 1 minute late, he was 11 minutes late. If they give you a 10 minute grace period, that IS mlg being lenient. What do you want them to do? Give out a 30 minute grace period and have their entire tournament run late because guys decide to just not be responsible and show up 20 minutes late knowing it does not matter?
This is a 3-day tournament that consists of a 256 player double elimination bracket. Not to mention 2 other titles are also being played...you try running that shit in 3 days with the attitude of "hey don't worry if you are late to your station, we'll let you play anyway"
You have to be strict so players know you are serious and take the initiative to make sure they know where they need to be. Stop thinking that 1 guy getting DQ'd means they need to change their attitude, when their attitude is the reason that every other guy shows up on time and ready to play.
being told to be somewhere, lets say 10:00 and you show up at 9:55 just to find out that your opponent was given a walk over. Im obviously referring to Pokebunny not White Ra.
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On July 31 2011 01:40 Trowabarton756 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 01:17 zFugitivE wrote:
meh, the player should be responsible to know when and where he has to be, and get their a couple of minutes early just to be safe.
MLG should not have to babysit people, especially if this guy is considered a professional. If you have to be at a certain place at a certain time be their. And the thread is incredibly misleading, he was not 1 minute late, he was 11 minutes late. If they give you a 10 minute grace period, that IS mlg being lenient. What do you want them to do? Give out a 30 minute grace period and have their entire tournament run late because guys decide to just not be responsible and show up 20 minutes late knowing it does not matter?
This is a 3-day tournament that consists of a 256 player double elimination bracket. Not to mention 2 other titles are also being played...you try running that shit in 3 days with the attitude of "hey don't worry if you are late to your station, we'll let you play anyway"
You have to be strict so players know you are serious and take the initiative to make sure they know where they need to be. Stop thinking that 1 guy getting DQ'd means they need to change their attitude, when their attitude is the reason that every other guy shows up on time and ready to play. Whats it like to know you typed this long post just to look like a moron?
He should've said it more nicely, but as much as I like White-Ra, I have to agree. If you're late to a job interview it's not going to sit well. While there may be traffic issues and whatnot, unless there's a remarkable circumstance, I don't think tardiness is an excuse for not getting disqualified.
Personally I'd rather see MLG's policy change to maybe give a game loss after 10 minutes (which is probably the average time of a game anyway), but because it is their policy, they should be enforcing it regardless of the quality of the player, and they did. In the future I hope White-Ra knows to leave a bit more time in travel. Hopefully he can make it through the LB!
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zFugitivE makes some points but I fail to see how giving players 30 minutes grace period to show up (even to start the match down 0-1) would delay the event considering over an hour is given to play each round.
What happens now is a player is DQ'd after 10 minutes and that station then goes empty for over an hour while the rest of the round is still in game 1.
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On July 31 2011 01:52 DyEnasTy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 01:17 zFugitivE wrote:
meh, the player should be responsible to know when and where he has to be, and get their a couple of minutes early just to be safe.
MLG should not have to babysit people, especially if this guy is considered a professional. If you have to be at a certain place at a certain time be their. And the thread is incredibly misleading, he was not 1 minute late, he was 11 minutes late. If they give you a 10 minute grace period, that IS mlg being lenient. What do you want them to do? Give out a 30 minute grace period and have their entire tournament run late because guys decide to just not be responsible and show up 20 minutes late knowing it does not matter?
This is a 3-day tournament that consists of a 256 player double elimination bracket. Not to mention 2 other titles are also being played...you try running that shit in 3 days with the attitude of "hey don't worry if you are late to your station, we'll let you play anyway"
You have to be strict so players know you are serious and take the initiative to make sure they know where they need to be. Stop thinking that 1 guy getting DQ'd means they need to change their attitude, when their attitude is the reason that every other guy shows up on time and ready to play. being told to be somewhere, lets say 10:00 and you show up at 9:55 just to find out that your opponent was given a walk over. Im obviously referring to Pokebunny not White Ra.
I think (someone correct me if I am wrong) that CatZ and Pokebunny were given incorrect information from non-MLG representatives, so it's a little different.
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people complained that MLG was too flexible with some players at MLG Columbus
now people complain that MLG is too inflexible at MLG Anaheim
anyways, I agree that this policy change makes a lot more sense
Also, I don't think you even read the suggested alternative. Read the OP, seriously. No one said 30 minute grace period. They said 15 minute = 1 loss, 30 minute = DQ. That's reasonable, and players still understand there are consequences.
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On July 31 2011 02:00 udgnim wrote:
people complained that MLG was too flexible with some players at MLG Columbus
now people complain that MLG is too inflexible at MLG Anaheim
Who complained that Columbus was too flexible? there were issues there too, read thorzains quote, he had quite a negative experience with much of the same stuff...Koreans got treated like gods but that was the only thing really. dq policies and in general treatment was the same for the rest of the mere mortals playing in the event.
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While I'm a supporter of strict rule enforcement and enforcing the rules to keep things on schedule, I have to agree with the OP that the rules themselves should be changed. It is easy for myself to say that just going 10 minutes earlier should prevent all of these problems, but I realize that not every person had a parent that forced me to be 10 minutes (sometimes 20 minutes) earlier to every place we go. And due to how crowded MLG is, arriving there on time is actually a big delay because of all of the fans.
So the MLG rules should definitely be more lenient. I think that just ripping the DH rule of 15 minutes for 1-0 and 30 minutes for DQ would be inefficient because MLG is on a much larger scale. MLG could still adopt the policy with adjusted times like 10 minutes for 1-0 and 20 minutes for DQ. It would keep the tournament running smoothly, and prevent having these situations come up again. If MLG still thinks it is too lenient, do 10 minutes for 1-0 and 15 minutes for DQ.
If MLG doesn't adopt any of these rules, at least give a fair warning to the players before the event, and tell each ref to remind the players to try to be here 10 minutes early to avoid any complications.
On July 31 2011 02:04 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 02:00 udgnim wrote:
people complained that MLG was too flexible with some players at MLG Columbus
now people complain that MLG is too inflexible at MLG Anaheim Who complained that Columbus was too flexible? there were issues there too, read thorzains quote, he had quite a negative experience with much of the same stuff...Koreans got treated like gods but that was the only thing really. dq policies and in general treatment was the same for the rest of the mere mortals playing in the event.
By flexibility, I think he means that some players were given the opportunity to play even though they were late. Inconsistency would be the better word.
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Ah ok I can see inconstant.
Some of it could also depend on the ref who is reffing the match, some refs are more lenient than others when it comes to letting you set up at a station early and other things like that.
No matter what the rule is consistency is very important.
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Wasn't JulyZerg late for a match or something in Colombus, and they let him play? I could be totally wrong.
I've always hated the DQ-rule...and especially for someone like White-Ra, with all those fans there...I sympathise a lot for the open bracket players, playing until 2am and then going back from 9-10am, it's a really hellish schedule. For someone like me who never wakes up via alarm half the time, hahah..
I agree, if we take 10 minutes for 1-0, 20 for DQ, that's a lot more fair for the players, and it keeps the event running. Sometimes traffic, or fans, or bathroom/food (see: Thorzain's post...who won't let a guy run to the bathroom real quick. -_- ) or some combination of them could get someone over 10 minutes late if they're not really adamant about paying attention.
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On July 31 2011 00:37 LuckyFool wrote:
Now looking at it from MLG's point of view, it's imperative to stay on schedule, when you have hundreds of matches to play in a 3 day event, you cannot get delayed too far behind schedule. Day 1 open bracket action always stretches into 2am local time as it is when things proceed on schedule. I think MLG should consider White-Ra's recommendation and also consider how dreamhack and WCG operate with players showing late. After 15 minutes treat it like 1 game was played and award the player waiting with a 1 game forfeit win, after another 15 minutes it's a 2-0 forfeit. 10 minutes for the entire match seems a little absurd to me. Each round is given a 1 hour slot to play so if a player does not show and is a full 30 minutes late they will be marked with a 2-0 loss and the match is still done long before the rest of the round and even longer before avilos match is avilo if playing in the event. (rofl) Sure this means the player waiting has to sit around for 30 minutes but hey browsing TL for 15 minutes while getting a win at an MLG event not too bad right?
Good post OP, I agree with you, they should change their DQ policies to something like you mentioned. AFAIK, in MTG, which has HUGE tournaments totally over 1000 players sometimes, they do the same thing, if you're late, you originally get a 1 game loss, and if you are considerably late, you lose the set 2-0.
If they are so restrained on time that they cannot make this change, they really should look at starting the open bracket a few hours earlier then. It's not like any of the matches are being broadcast or anything, so it doesn't hurt viewers.
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These situations are one of those both sides can work to improve situations.
The tournament does have to be strict, and although it is easy to say things like "1 minute late..." but then what happens if another player shows up and is just 3 minutes late, and he says well you let him play and he was a minute late what is the difference? At what point does late become to late?
So I understand MLG's point of view on this and to be honest although they can revise and change policies after events, they need to be strict on what they establish and if it is a 10 minute window then they MUST stick with that unless there were just the most extraordinary circumstances through this event. I do think something along the lines of 10 minutes late no penalty, next 10 minutes start down 0-1, after that you lose. Because in theory that shouldn't cause them to go off schedule because you have to assume the best of 3 was going to take around 30 minutes to complete at the least.
Going forward though, I think MLG must make sure they are doing the best job possible of making sure players know their correct game times, and have ways of looking that information up. One thing I've heard at times is that players aren't sure where to get exact info or get wrong information and that is where MLG can improve especially being such a large event with so much going on. The other side of it is that players must also be diligent about making sure they know and confirm when and where they need to be at what times, and being sure to get there early just so there is a bit of contingency, for example to sign an autograph or two.
I just hate these situations where everyone makes it out like someone has to be blamed. Players need to take responsibility and organizers need to make sure they are doing all they can to allow players to be successful. Both are in it together and sometimes things like this pop up, it is unfortunate, you hope people learn and it improves but sometimes shit happens.
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My big complaint about this situation is that it's completely absurd to make white-ra forfeit the entire match 0-2 when all the game 1s are still going.
I guess that's just the rules - but they should fix the rules.
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So he knew what time his match was, and probably the repercussions for being late, and pushed it by trying to show up at the last minute. Not a good idea.
He was late and was DQ'd. I'm sure they would do it with every other player at the tourney. Just because White Ra is well respected/better/more liked than most of the competitors, he shouldn't be given special treatment.
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I want to know how anyone could accept a DQ over whitera and how any ref could ever DQ whitera. These are the important questions.
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I'm fine with them DQ'ing people for being late as long as they are consistent about it. If he was late, it is perfectly reasonable to be DQ'd from the round provided he was given the correct time. It sucks for White-Ra, but I don't have any issues with it. Maybe my heart is just a black hole though :/
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On July 31 2011 04:11 Zaros wrote:
I want to know how anyone could accept a DQ over whitera and how any ref could ever DQ whitera. These are the important questions.
Whitera is awesome, but if i was offered a DQ over whitera id take it instantly because he would obliterate me. I don't blame the other guy.
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I hope WhiteRa is doing ok i would be pretty pissed of 
He is the special tecticts you dont do this to him
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Well, if he showed up late, the DQ is totally valid imho. Yes, it sucks that it hits WhiteRa, but well, there are rules and they have to be followed.
Still, they should fix the notification of the players so they know further ahead when they have to play so such occurences can be more easily avoided. If they then still show up 10 minutes late, DQ them.
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I'm with MLG on this one. If people can't show up on time within a 10 minute window DQ them. Anyone who has even tried to organize a 32 person amateur tounament let alone something as big as MLG would understand why you have to be strict with when people show up to play their games. The event will basically become a clusterfuck if you give more leniency.
Sucks for WhiteRa but he shouldn't be late.
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On July 31 2011 00:37 LuckyFool wrote:Now looking at it from MLG's point of view, it's imperative to stay on schedule, when you have hundreds of matches to play in a 3 day event, you cannot get delayed too far behind schedule. Day 1 open bracket action always stretches into 2am local time as it is when things proceed on schedule. I think MLG should consider White-Ra's recommendation and also consider how dreamhack and WCG operate with players showing late. After 15 minutes treat it like 1 game was played and award the player waiting with a 1 game forfeit win, after another 15 minutes it's a 2-0 forfeit. 10 minutes for the entire match seems a little absurd to me. Each round is given a 1 hour slot to play so if a player does not show and is a full 30 minutes late they will be marked with a 2-0 loss and the match is still done long before the rest of the round and even longer before avilos match is avilo if playing in the event. (rofl) Sure this means the player waiting has to sit around for 30 minutes but hey browsing TL for 15 minutes while getting a win at an MLG event not too bad right?
Hardy har har, Lucky!
After MLG - Columbus, avilo basically posted verbatim (on another forum) what Thorzain said, but avilo was shot down.
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it's his own darn fault. it's hard for mlg to manage so many people in such a large open bracket and with people showing up late, regardless of who, they have to stick by the rules or the whole tournament wont run as smoothly and there may be unexpected delays or players might not get the proper amount of set aside rest time in the schedule because other players are being late. white-ra should manage his time better esp since he's spending so much money flying out to this thing, i don't see how you guys can blame mlg when it's entirely his fault.
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I don't think people are really blaming MLG (I know I wasn't trying to) I just hate seeing this happen and wonder if there are ways to reduce the chances of it happening in the future. No one is to blame really... oO;
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Yeah it sucks but MLG needs to draw the line somewhere. Sure Whitera's suggestion starting 0-1 is nice, but it still has the potential to put ethe tournament further behind schedule. Especially if the late player is someone like Sjow or Avilo who just don't quit out of lost games.
It sucks he got cut off at 11 mins when the limit was 10, but if the limit was 15 I'm sure there'd be people complaining they were only 16 mins late
Honestly I'm more concerned about consistency than the time limit itself. The problem with CBus was that some players got 45 min leeway while others got 5. It looked especially bad when notable players like Losira had keyboard issues that delayed matches for 2 hours, but then lesser known players get DQed for using PS2-USB keyboard converters.
Catz made a good argument about his DQ vs JulyZerg, he thought His DQ was legitamate, its just that he was upset that the rules were bent for players. The examples he gave were Ret and July, who were 30+ late to their games but still got to play.
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looks like MLG needs some german discipline and organisation 
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I think most people are upset about the consistency, not the ruling of MLG itself. I run a 20-40 man LAN and it's hard as balls to get people to get there and play on time, I can't blame MLG for doing what they do to get things moving along.
MLG just needs to focus on consistency, I think. It's good that Rob pointed out White-Ra because in other MLGs people have been late or delayed games in a MUCH longer fashion than 11 minutes, and they got okayed into playing late.
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On July 31 2011 04:11 Zaros wrote:
I want to know how anyone could accept a DQ over whitera and how any ref could ever DQ whitera. These are the important questions.
Sucks that he got DQ but atleast it sets a good example for everyone who goes to MLG. If they DQ white-ra then nobody is going to get special treatment.
Unless they have given people like 30mns and still let them play this tournament or something. if they have then to hell with what I said.
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Rules have to be tough or the event will never run on schedule.
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this is just insanity imo, DQing a player for showing up late for 1 match? there should at least be some sort of warning system before a total DQ, and the opponent should have the option to refuse the DQ if they are willing to wait extra time. i know players being late can snowball out of control in a large tournament, but decisions like this have to be made case-by-case and not just apply a blanket rule that is inconsistently applied.
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On July 31 2011 00:37 LuckyFool wrote:
As many of you might have heard White-Ra was disqualified from his open winners round 2 match in MLG Anaheim early last night for showing up 1 minute too late for his match. He shows up at 10:50 local time for a match that was scheduled at 10:40 local time, MLG gives 10 minutes grace period to show up and White-Ra shows up in the last minute of his window. 90% of the rest of round 2 is still in game 1 as White-Ra is talking to an MLG ref who basically says sorry dude next time don't be late. How did this happen? Is something like this preventable?
yes, by showing up on time
the problem with this situation is that everyone thinks that he showed up one minute too late, but he was really 11 minutes too late - the 10 minutes isn't supposed to be considered into your planning on showing up, 10 minutes is late - they will let it slide because shit happens, but it's still late
that extra one minute means that you're 11 minutes late. unacceptable.
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I really want to add something to this. I'm not hear to rag on MLG because they are doing great things for starcraft in North America ( and actually the world for that matter) I am a diamond player and absolutely love e sports. with that said hear me out.
I drove from North Carolina to play at the event at Columbus. Got a hotel for the 3 days at the event spent tons of money (for a college student at least) MLG staff was terrible about practicing on the computer before the event, people were fighting for space and just taking others computers who went to use the bathroom. After getting destroyed by Demuslim in the first round I was dq'd from the next day because the times that were given to me by MLG admins were an hour off.
I was pretty upset about my dq but notice it happened to numerous other players (including hte cats july zerg thing) Their times are never stable, they dont ever actually tell you what group of matches you are going to play and they make you responsible for being in hte buildings at ALL TIMES for a 5 hour period waiting for your name to be called on a loud speaker...
This makes it absolutely impossible to go eat, to go to the bathroom, shower, go anywhere really. The worst part is they are calling your name in a building with thousands of loud people.. Its just a terrible system. LOVE YOU MLG BUT WHAT ARE YOU DOING
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Really disappointed at the DQ of White-Ra Being 10-minutes late can't warrant a DQ of the player, I do think the player should be penalised but not fully DQ'ed
Hope White-Ra tears up LB :D
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Damn... Unlucky for WhiteRa, seems unfair for Catz and PokeBunny though. They were told the wrong times... I can see why ThorZain stayed home.
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WhiteRa ended up facing the guy that got the DQ decision and won 4 straight to beat him 4-2 in an extended series
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It was really cool White-ra met the same guy in the losers bracket later on and he honorably threw the first 2 games to even it up between them so they could have a fair match.
White-Ra killed him hardcore all the same.
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On July 31 2011 00:43 turdburgler wrote:
after such good work on most things its sad that things like this ruin MLG for some
There were stories like this at last MLG as well (see OP, plus there were more, like the guy in the elevator). They just did absolutely nothing to change it.
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Its a shitty rule considering its a 0-2 but I have never heard of anyone being disqualified for arriving early. Fans or otherwise im sure people will stop showing up late once theyve been burnt.
Also the preferential treatment that thorzain complains about is because pool players are the stars of MLG. If you are a pool player it means that you are a proffessional gamer who has proven themselves in previous MLG's. So it kind of pays to treat their bread and butter better than others since they are the ones who MLG will build storys on and will see at every other MLG event. It also helps them legitimise progaming because the participants are more regular and less seasonal. Not Open player #89 on his college break who might only go to one MLG because it was in their area or it was all their sponsor could afford. It sucks yeah but I am sure if thorzain went to MLG this time and got out of open brackets he would be a pool player next MLG. And for open player #89 when he finally does get into pool play it will be a truly special "pro" experience to have his own practice computer and a leisurely schedule.
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I'm fine with enforcing the rules. They're well-known at this point. If the rules say 10 minutes is a DQ, that's fine with me personally. I could see adopting other rules where you progressively forfeit games instead of the whole match immediately as well. Doesn't seem like a big issue to me ... it's on the players to not be late.
I think the bigger problems are MLG's organization (at least judging from the Thorzain quote, I obviously have no experience with it myself) and that MLG apparently runs late into the night (till 3 am? Seriously?) and then starts rather early the next morning.
The latter indicates that MLG should either trim the number of entrants allowed or extend the duration of the event. Since extending the duration is extremely unlikely since MLG isn't Starcraft-2-only, they should trim the number of entrants so they don't have to have such an unreasonable schedule and thus the players don't feel pressured to sneak in every bit of sleep possible between days (and thus are reasonably able to wake up and show up early). 256 players is nice, but clearly MLG doesn't really have the time to run a 256-person double-elimination tournament yet they are trying to do it anyway. Cut to 128 and maybe that will prove doable.
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EPT
