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It's tricky, and even harder to pull off, because you tread a pretty thin line with girls like this (trust me, I've sure as hell been there. Wish I'd know better at the time but that's that).
Do you want me to explain the response-to-creeper mindset? ok sure
She clearly trusts you, otherwise you'd sure as hell not be sleepin in her house, just you two, for over 3 weeks. Now the worst thing that can happen in her mind is if that trust is violated. If she feels safe with you and trusts you to not take advantage of her (she's entered you into just about her most intimate setting, really, sharing a house, alone, with a member of the opposite sex, for an extended period of time). Imagine if you had a younger sister, and you've got a friend staying over at your place for a week (sister's in the house), and it turns out that the only reason he wanted to stay at your place was to be ~near~ your sister, hopin for something to happen.
That's nasty, right? Bitches be crazy, especially with whatever they tell their friends, and before you know it she could be convinced that you don't want to be her friend, all you're there for is hoping for sexy time, and you likely masturbate thinking about her every night.
FUCKIN HELL these could all be true, and thats understandable, but if she thinks that, you're screwed.
I don't really know how it goes down between you guys (BTW are you in a country with a culture that would allow a bit of nonchalant love-makin? if you don't mind tellin, where you be?), but she can't feel like that trust is violated. Instead she needs to feel that it's "right".
The trick is transforming Platonic to Romantic infatuation; never a guaranteed success.
Yes, still more to cum
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People seem to be saying your situation is desperate, that you have crossed into the "friends only" sector, and that you need to find a new girl, which tends to be the "typical by the book" response that i would expect you to get. However, as someone whose started multiple relationships with long time friends I would say they are wrong.
Indeed sometimes things might not work out but that isn't reason to give up hope. From my experience (believe me if you want its up to you really) brash moves like "just kiss her" only end poorly coming from someone who has played a friend role for so long. (unless you live in a chick flick) I think the awkwardness that would come with that, especially considering you said you are staying with this girl long term, would not at all be worth it. Best case scenario she falls "in love" with you, worst case scenario you completely ruin your friendship and the rest of the time you have with her will be super awkward.
What i would suggest is playing it cool. And i don't mean douche bag cool, I mean like tyler cool. or in other words, chill. while you may be bursting at the seams to touch her or kiss her you can't let her see that. Girls generally do not do well with guys who are drooling over their slightest touch. You have to be confident and somewhat collected. My advice, start making advances in conversation before making actual physical advances. You say she gives you mixed signals so you should try to clear up these signals. this may sound nerdy especially coming from a sc2 site (lolzz) but intellectually charm her. as i dont kno your exact relationship i cant tell you the magical words that will get her to reveal her interest in your or increase it but it often is easier to flirt (non physically) with long term friends before making an actual physical move. For instance slightly sexual jokes work good. Keep them light and not overly apparent. See if she bites. If she does casual slide more in. Start broad and narrow down on more personal things.
Subtlety is your friend when trying to romance a friend! Random super obvious moves are freightening, i generally take a more gradual approach. You say you've pet her hair. That's cool. Just make sure shes comfortable with it. You have more time there you shouldn't be in a huge rush!
To address the "new guy" subtlety is also your friend. You know this girl wayy better than him. INSIDE JOKES. so he may be more suave or better looking or wutever the case may be it doesnt matter because you know her better you should know how to make her laugh more or feel more secure. If you can make her laugh about something that he has no idea whats going on thats gonna work really great in your favor. Maybe you two have a joke about douche guys- slide a line in there that she would find funny that refers to something hes doing. You gotta pull her onto your side. BUT don't be an asshole about it. Sometimes you have to let her out a little bit to eventually reel her in. pick your moments. yeah its gonna be rough if she does something you don't like. you can't let it get you down. you've put in a ton of time getting to know this girl, you can wait a little longer.
read her body language. it seems like you have been trying to do this already so keep up the good work. girls are tough reads sometimes and if you think sometimes she may be digging you and others she may not... that may actually just be the case! i kno plenty of girls who are so indecisive when it comes to guys, it really pays to make a move when the body language is giving the the go.
my last bit of advice in this block will be the ehhh greyest? and it is of course a little liquid courage. While this seems to be a sham bit of advice it can actually help a bit when talking to girls, especially friends who you wanna make a move on. get a few drinks together. maybe play some drinking games or something do it in a fun way. (DONT GET SMASHED) be respectful but a little alcohol always helps a bit in the promiscuity department. nothing like a drunk "heart to heart" to hash out some of those feelings (just dont blurt it all out at once -_- remember tyler chillness). also alcohol may help with ur anxiety to touch. no it won't make you not want to touch her- probably the opposite- but thats ok as long as you do so in a respectable manner.
so yes. all in all be patient, i recommend not doing anything too abrupt (unless you are making a byte by byte all in kinda move). bring your conversations to a more sexual level. use inside jokes and personal effects to your advantage, and don't get discouraged. if you wanna talk feel free 
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Girl blogs are great. Chill, stfu!
Yes I AM EDITING THIS
Heeer:
What's been said about alcohol is totally true. If it's balls you need to say something, alcohol can certainly help. Too much however can make the move ineffective as you come off as too drunk to take seriously, and it can also let you have terrible terrible judgment (which, coupled with the lack of inhibitions can make for some REALLY regrettable 'moves').
what's in the spoiler, in retrospect, is likely rather unnecessary, but I bothered to write it.
it's the "in case you don't think she's OK with Sex, her mentality about you is:"
+ Show Spoiler [If you don't think she's o…] +
I still like the idea of talking about attraction/relationships with her, to try and break an image she may have of you as "trust-worthy because he's not quite a lady-killa" and change it to "ok, he's a sexual being too y'know, ----> he's available". If 'you being available' automatically means she's yours is something you can't control, but you can at least make sure she knows that EDIT you're sexually available.
First, the attitude and approach. What you don't want is some big OMG revelation that shatters her understanding of your relationship. If she's on the innocent side and thinks you're just friends, busting out an "I LUURV you" will make her uncomfortable because she is clearly not passionate about you like that (it'll just be really akward).
Either that or she thinks of you more like a "soumis" - a nice concise French term for a tool basically, someone that lets everyone walk over him, so it's easy and OK to lead him around on a leash because she can get away with it. If you busted out the same professions (subliminally) her rule would be over, she couldn't toy with you anymore and she'd have to let you go because you're no longer useful/fun to her.
Ya can't really tell which one it is, so pick a strategy that works for both. By being joking, light-hearted, and non-serious (reason for this is if you talk to her in a serious "I LOVE YOU" sense she has no way to escape, but if it's light-hearted you can salvage the situation a lot better).
Simply put (because this is getting long, it's getting late, I prefer waking up in the first half of the day and not the afternoon, RESPECT kOre I'll PM you later about overcoming the fear-of-hurting-the-days-after-preventing-you-from-going-to-BBoy-trainin, and you're right the simple solution is probably just that she's totally fine with being with you, but would feel like a slut feel wrong if she initiated the come-ons.... adult friends with benefits y'know)
Simply put (fuckin hell I'm incoherent, sorry), in her little mind you want to have the "Sex?" box checked, when she thinks of you.
Thought process:
"you? + sex? = checked? ok, I'm fine with what he does as long as it's not too abrasive or embarrassing"
First, she needs to know that you're a sexual being, that it does actually happen that you're interested in the opposite sex (e.g. when watching a movie and you think an actress looks pretty damm hot in a scene, go ahead and say it!). Note how it's not a "you're hot", it's the roundabout 'thinking people are hot does pass through my mind, and I've got the confidence to voice my opinions about it with you'.
[meme] then suddenly, "you ~get her~ "[/meme]
it's not that easy sadly
Fuck it I'll continue this in another post
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just pull her in and don't think about it, do this a couple times and she'll get the hint and then the next time PUCKER UP AND GO FOR IT :D
if she reacts negatively to you pulling her in (say when you are sitting on a couch watching a movie or something) then ... yeah lol
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nice post from a guy i relate to, including about the "friend zone" thing being BS
its really hard for me, i do feel like i miss opportunities and am passive when i shouldnt be - like im TOO careful, even when she practically invites me
also what you say about feeling like you need to rush - this stupid guy tonight made me feel like that and its totally wrong! (what you say about alcohol too haha!)
i need to wake up a little bit more, be less passive (although not aggressive - just less passive coz that should be good enough, at least to create more opportunities)
idk about my conversation skills, i think i SUCK at saying "interesting" stuff and am very actively forcing myself to not say a lot of things that ive come to recognise that i get a bad reaction from. (eg she hates my anecdotes). i am good at saying FUN stuff but often spoil it by switching into nerd mode half way thru
to those saying it might be creepy or whatever, we're adults not niave teens
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On July 29 2011 11:12 kOre wrote:
just pull her in and don't think about it, do this a couple times and she'll get the hint and then the next time PUCKER UP AND GO FOR IT :D
i like this
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who cares if you switch into nerd mode, if that's what's comfortable then stick with it. oh and the friend zone thing is bullshit lol i was good friends with a friend of mine for a long time before we started going out and she also says the friend zoned thing is garbage.
good luck ^^
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She doesn't like you sexually.
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meh would love to nerd it up but she hates that shit and it kills the vibe dead  cant have everything!
thanks all, better sleep now
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I don't think she's interested in you romantically, from what I've skimmed over. I think that self-reliance is an important virtue toi have, so it might be more essential to your well-being that you move away from her and see that there are a lot of other women in the world and how many of them have something special to offer you.
I'm in a really silly mood, and I wanted to post a courage-wolf poster reading "She put you in the friend zone? Put her in the rape zone!" but I don't want to get banned.
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Being friends with a girl first doesn't necessarily mean you can never have a relationship. But in this case, I would bet my posting privileges that this girl has you labeled cuddle bitch all over. Please temp ban me for a week if the op comes back and says "I told her how I feel and we're dating now!"
From the way you describe it, you are delusional. You think your lack of initiative is what's holding you back, but the reality is that because you are her friend, she is NOT going to reject you outright. She will always be subtle. Girls, at least girls who aren't complete bitches, are going to evade the issue entirely, giving someone like you a glimmer of hope. "I just haven't found the right moment yet!" But there is no moment. It won't happen. Try harder next time.
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Kissing her while you are staying with her in another country is a recipe for disaster. If things go badly it will be really awkward for the remainder of your time.
As far as big picture relationships go, I'm going to be a bit harsh. You've been in the friends zone for 4 years and nothing has happened. She doesn't think of you as more than friends. There is no such thing as a perfect moment that will suddenly make you guys have a relationship. It's time to man up and drop the idea of having a relationship with her. Stay friends sure, but that's in. Hit the gym, start eating better, and find a girl that wont waste your time. When there's a chance for a relationship with a girl, you know in your gut. None of this wishy washy I'm not sure what she is thinking type of thing. There is an attraction, a chemistry that you can sense. You'll know it when you feel it. I don't think it's happening with this girl.
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On July 29 2011 11:38 [Atomic]Peace wrote:
Kissing her while you are staying with her in another country is a recipe for disaster. If things go badly it will be really awkward for the remainder of your time.
As far as big picture relationships go, I'm going to be a bit harsh. You've been in the friends zone for 4 years and nothing has happened. She doesn't think of you as more than friends. There is no such thing as a perfect moment that will suddenly make you guys have a relationship. It's time to man up and drop the idea of having a relationship with her. Stay friends sure, but that's in. Hit the gym, start eating better, and find a girl that wont waste your time. When there's a chance for a relationship with a girl, you know in your gut. None of this wishy washy I'm not sure what she is thinking type of thing. There is an attraction, a chemistry that you can sense. You'll know it when you feel it. I don't think it's happening with this girl.
I think the courage-wolf would agree with this.
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eh maybe your right but i still havent given it what im worth
life is only just starting
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Protips: Stop talking to her, use a bullshit excuse to just completely ignore her. Then try again in a month.
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I Edited in above, go read!
So "him + sextime = exist"
then "him + sextime = ok!"
If you're her ~bitch~, unless you like licking feet for nothing in return, it's not good. You've gotta reverse them roles, that she can't lead you around.
A fun thing that I just thought of (and it's a good example) is, effectively, reject her, so that she subliminally gets the message that she can't just walk all over you.
Wake up early-ish one day (lol not gonna happen tomorrow) and go get a coffee or a croissant or something FOR YOURSELF ONLY , bring some remains of it back (nearly empty cup, crumb napkin) so that she knows you went out of your way to treat yourself, but instead of being her adoring follower and showering her with unrequited presents you didnt bring an offering back for her. if WHEN she asks why you didn't bring anything back for her again I'd personally say " well I'm not your bitch q: + - Go get it yourself q: " then once she understands that you're joking a "Oh well I didn't know you wanted some."
Next day the exact same routine, but don't eat the thing, bring it back intact, and lead her on that you've (missed up an opportunity to appease her) only got one for yourself .... then bust out another one for her as well so you can both have a nice morning. Nice hunh (:
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On July 29 2011 10:13 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 10:09 obesechicken13 wrote:
[ig]
You're the dark green frog and the guy. nope i think i just miss the shit out of opportunities and fail at creating them and just dont know what to do
But you said that she'd denied your advances before.
we've been "best friends" for 3-4 years, that is spending more time with each other than anyone else, a long and standard "unrequited love" relationship that has more recently been very "clean" (for 6-12 months). what i mean by this, of course, is i havent made any major fuck-ups in this time such as saying "i love you" and pissing her off.
Anyways it might work out if you're persistent. It did for frog guy
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On July 29 2011 11:50 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 10:13 FFGenerations wrote:On July 29 2011 10:09 obesechicken13 wrote:
[ig]
You're the dark green frog and the guy. nope i think i just miss the shit out of opportunities and fail at creating them and just dont know what to do But you said that she'd denied your advances before. Show nested quote +we've been "best friends" for 3-4 years, that is spending more time with each other than anyone else, a long and standard "unrequited love" relationship that has more recently been very "clean" (for 6-12 months). what i mean by this, of course, is i havent made any major fuck-ups in this time such as saying "i love you" and pissing her off. Anyways it might work out if you're persistent. It did for frog guy
But frog guy was a fictional character, and the woman who hooked up with him only did it because she was like "My biological clock is ticking!" but she was still freaked out by the thought of dating him.
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This is for if she's just waiting to fall into your arms (VERY unlike, and quite dangerous if you assume that's the case but it's not).
+ Show Spoiler [side-note] + if you're EVER confused about what a girl thinks and how she feels, ask her closest girl-friend, as long as you can trust that girl not to tell your babe-to-be. Really, the simplest solution to your problem of "not knowing" is to ask. You can't ask directly, because bitches be indirect: girls will lie to you if you confront them, they will not say what they actually feel or think about you to your face (unless they're really angry) because "that's a bitch thing to do". They're not totally evil, they still care a bit about your feelings, so to ~not hurt your feelings~ they'll evade rejecting you outright and dodge. This sucks because a guy would prefer a straight-up, clear-cut answer, and he'd rather deal with the rejection and move on, than be confused.
Talk to a friend of hers who would know "what does [babe] think of me. Am I her toy, her `bitch` that she can do what she wants with, or would she be OK with the fact that our really long friendship has lead to develop normal heterosexual attraction to her." Ok maybe not that wording, but basically if you don't know or are unsure, you need to know. If you're talking around [babe] then make it totally clear to [friend] that you trust her not to spill the beans on you (You'd rather make-or-break it yourself), and that you trust her enough to be totally honest that you're sexually attracted to [babe] and you want something to come of it because it's been so long and you really like her.
Unless [friend] is a total bitch that hates the idea of you guys being together, she'll likely oblige you this information, or even end up getting it for you. Hell, you may even just go for her in a more no-strings-attached way q:
Just have good judgment, and don't reveal your battle-plan to someone who is an evil Protoss is on the opposing side
If she's ready to fall into your arms, and it's a "you lack the libido to get in her pants", doing what I suggested will make her more open to that idea, and if she's into it then she'll make it easy and be more clear about it.
(FUCK it's 5AM here)
lol now 5:15
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EPT
