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On July 31 2011 08:33 FFGenerations wrote:
so to actually be attractive i need to stop quietly (or as i see it cleverly) brooding and instead meet any issues head on.
This is a great perspective. One small problem....
i did reach for her hand at a random time just an hour ago and she let me play with it while she talked.
...YOU DIDN'T FOLLOW IT!
Seriously, this makes me want to flip a table (like that stupid text meme).
What you NEED to do: grow a pair or freakin balls and tell her!
What you SHOULDN'T do: all this cutesy crap, posting on TL (when you could be telling her), and thinking.
Seriously, stop thinking. There is little thinking required. Just freakin do it. Do yourself a favor, and do everyone else giving you decent advice in this thread a favor......
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don't take this the wrong way, but she thinks you're gay
start checking out other chicks while you are with her.. make sure she notices
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The advice in this thread makes me laugh.
Heres what you need to do: Just whip out your cajones and show them to her. That statement is open for your interpretation.
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Hey, I think what you need to do is to be more bold. By bold I don't mean take more risks - but think about acting 'strong'. There's that Bible quote, "fear drives out love". If you are feeling fear, then what that is saying to her is that if you were to one day get married, and your kid was getting bullied, then if you show her now that you're a 'wussy' she's not going to be able to look at you and see a strong father who can protect the family. You have to act like a 'man'. If you act like a boy, then she won't be romantically attracted to you.
So you don't need to escalate. You need to change your attitude into one of a strong Russian bear's. After you do that, once she starts to notice that you're brave and strong, she will naturally gravitate her ass towards your penis and the escalation will happen naturally. If you want more advice feel free to PM me for my e-mail address, I charge $30 per e-mail for my coaching.
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On August 01 2011 22:24 Discretionary Duck wrote:
Hey, I think what you need to do is to be more bold. By bold I don't mean take more risks - but think about acting 'strong'. There's that Bible quote, "fear drives out love". If you are feeling fear, then what that is saying to her is that if you were to one day get married, and your kid was getting bullied, then if you show her now that you're a 'wussy' she's not going to be able to look at you and see a strong father who can protect the family. You have to act like a 'man'. If you act like a boy, then she won't be romantically attracted to you.
So you don't need to escalate. You need to change your attitude into one of a strong Russian bear's. After you do that, once she starts to notice that you're brave and strong, she will naturally gravitate her ass towards your penis and the escalation will happen naturally. If you want more advice feel free to PM me for my e-mail address, I charge $30 per e-mail for my coaching.
Roflmao gravitate her ass towards your penis. Such a great line.
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Its all been said, but this ship has almost certainly sailed. I've never known a girl to date the guy who's brooded over her for years, you're severely friend zoned, and all these mixed messages that you think she's giving aren't really there.
That said, there's still a chance, you just need to completly change your approach. You need to decide if you want to continue loving this girl in secret, to make a move at the risk of ruining your friendship or to get over her and accept that you will only ever be friends. 2 of the 3 options are correct. Also every moment you continue down the first path, it gets less likely that you will ever be more than friends.
I think your problem op is that you think too much, in general thinking doesn't get you anywhere with women, especcially when you think as much as you do. You need to forget that you've secretly wanted this girl for years, because I can tell you right now that if she finds out you have she is going to be pretty creeped out. The approach you want to go for is that you are seeing her differently now, and for this to work you need to make her see you different too. If you come across as such a thinker with her as you do here that might not be so hard.
What you need to do is just do fun things with her, take charge and be spontaneous, I like the idea of the exploring with a picnic. I know its hard to tell somone to stop thinking and at the same time want them to come up with spontaneous ideas, but it should become easier once you start. The taking charge thing is important too, you've probably been following her lead for years, so don't ask her if she wants to do something with you. Its for me hard to explain, but its more you inviting her along ("Lets do xyz" not "Do you want to do xyz with me?". Doing this might allow you a second shot at her, but this time don't plan and wait for the moment to make a move because the perfect moment will never come to you.
I don't think the cutesy moves will work either, it gives off the 'I've always liked you, but never had the balls to let you know' vibe which, while true, is definetly not something she should know.
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dude, you are worse than a friend-zoned guy , you are more like her gay friend, even if you arent.
that should enrage you , and give you the courage to be more bold.
show you are interested in her, say compliments to her, "you look sexy with that skirt", and if you are gonna play with her hands you better make it clear, you want to kiss her (you dont have to say anithing just go 90% more close to her face but dont kiss her, let her do the 10% ) , otherwise dont play with her hands or hair.
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On August 02 2011 06:22 insanet wrote:
dude, you are worse than a friend-zoned guy , you are more like her gay friend, even if you arent.
that should enrage you , and give you the courage to be more bold.
show you are interested in her, say compliments to her, "you look sexy with that skirt", and if you are gonna play with her hands you better make it clear, you want to kiss her (you dont have to say anithing just go 90% more close to her face but dont kiss her, let her do the 10% ) , otherwise dont play with her hands or hair.
The "gay-zone".
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But yeah, seriously dude, go to www.doubleyourdating.com and read some of the articles there and sign up to the dating-tips newsletter, for example this one:
“3 Things Women Hate About Men”
Learn the 3 Things Women Hate About Men and How to Avoid Being the Single Guy That Women Hate
Three Things Women Hate Most About Single Guys
By David DeAngelo
There are a few particular things that REALLY annoy single, attractive women.
One of the reasons that these things annoy women is because they're DEAL KILLERS.
A woman can like everything about you, but if you do these things (or even ONE of these things), it can DESTROY your chances of success.
Here are three of the BIG things that single women hate:
Giving Up Your Status In Exchange For Her Attention And Approval
If I had to describe the one single thing that both annoys women and DESTROYS a guy's chances, it would be this.
It has taken me a long time to see this particular pattern, but it's EVERYWHERE.
Men, in effect, say “Hi, I want your approval and attention. I'm willing to let YOU be the one who's in control… and let YOU call the shots… and do anything to please YOU… if you'll give me your attention and approval”.
But the problem is that women DON'T WANT you to give up your status and “ manliness”.
Women aren't ATTRACTED to men who act weak and tentative.
Women secretly HATE IT when a guy does something to demonstrate that he'll give away his power in return for approval.
THEY HATE IT!
I could literally write an entire book on this one single concept.
Take a few minutes to think this one over, and maybe write down the ways that you make this mistake with women.
More importantly, think about how you're going to STOP DOING IT IMMEDIATELY.
Women secretly HATE IT when a guy does something to demonstrate that he'll give away his power in return for approval.
Being Needy, Clingy, And Insecure
When one person “clings” to another person “psychologically”, the person who is being “clinged to” RESENTS and REJECTS the needy, clingy emotional parasite…
This is WUSS behavior at its worst.
If a guy is on the phone with a girl he just met, and she says “Hey, I have to go”, he might say “Aw, well… um …OK. Um, will you call me when you get home? ”
And an even worse example is a guy who is so emotionally insecure that he actually ASKS a woman to tell him that he's nice, fun, interesting, etc.
“Do you think I'm interesting? ”
“Do you think we could ever have a relationship? ”
“Am I your type? ”
Women HATE this stuff. It makes them shiver with the heebie-jeebies. It makes them want to RUN AWAY.
Not Understanding Attraction
This is a BIGGIE.
Women can INSTANTLY FEEL IT when they're with a guy who “gets it”.
Women know very quickly if they're talking to a guy who understands himself and women… and who enjoys creating and building sexual tension.
Women know if a guy speaks the SECRET LANGUAGE of “Sexual Communication”.
If he doesn't, then she stops all communication on that level.
If he does, then it continues.
ATTRACTION Isn't A Choice.
Attraction is an emotional and physical RESPONSE… and you can't “convince” a woman to feel it with logic, gifts, and NICENESS.
Three Things Women Hate Most About Single Guys
Attraction is the result of a woman meeting a man who understands how attraction works… and who knows what to do in each specific situation to progress to the next level.
The PROBLEM with ATTRACTION, and with success with women in general is that the things you need to DO to be successful are NOT OBVIOUS.
They're “counter intuitive”, in many cases.
In other words, they're the OPPOSITE of what you'd THINK would make sense.
You have to do things like CREATE TENSION… stop doing something that she likes… give her time to miss you… etc.
Now that I've shared these three mistakes, you need the next piece of the puzzle. You need to get an education on how attraction works for women… and the RIGHT things to do up front to give her those emotional/physical feelings inside.
As educational as this has been, this is only the beginning.
If you're starting to realize how important it is to get this area of your life handled, then I recommend you make a commitment and take your education to a WORLD CLASS level.
And what's the best way to do that?
Well, I've spent the last several years of my life figuring out exactly what does and doesn't work with women.
I figured this stuff out for MYSELF… and then I took what I've learned and put it all together to help others learn as well.
“My Double Your Dating eBook” represents THOUSANDS of hours of research, testing, getting to know guys who were successful with women, and generally organizing every level of this knowledge into an easy-to-understand system that ANY guy can use to increase his success with women and dating.
And I'll tell you something…
It works.
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u know what today she explained how she was getting annoyed and tired of my company because i havent been taking the iniative and lead in the day to day things. this is a very very typical thing that turns women off like nothing else (not all women though - but this girl especially it seems).
i already knew this to an extent but honestly didnt realise to what extent. she absolutely needs direction (i said "lets go shopping" when i meant "i just wanna browse around randomly and hang out" but she got extremely pissy because she felt like i was just faffing around being indecisive and lame. she hated it when i looked at some clothes but didnt comment enough to her satisfaction (she wants a YES or NO or some strong feedback whereas my general response is to think things over too much).
another example of how this affects us is when i might suggest a movie and then spend 5 minutes saying shit like "mm you might like it because of blah but it does have blah in and the overall tone of the movie is blah and maybe we should watch this other thing instead blah blah". when i really i should just be like "WE WATCHING THIS NOW STFU AND ENJOY"
so these kinda things REALLY and i mean really tick her off and she gets moody and her whole attitude towards me in general becomes very negative, which in turn makes me feel fucked up and because im the classic "conflict-avoider" i just back down and make the situation even worse.
so the major lessons for today kids are that being decisive and leading is way more important than you think - you should ALWAYS be one step ahead of another person and you should ALWAYS be very direct and PRECISE (no faffing around) in anything you do, from buying shit at the shop to knowing when you're going to eat or pick the place to eat.
you should INSTANTLY speak your mind or do whatever comes into you head as soon as you think it. you might think you're very clever and interesting in your head, but no one else fucking knows that unless you shout it out and do it. if she says something that makes you feel like shes pissy, dont hang around wondering and analysing and hoping itll go away. fucking say something - SHE WANTS YOU TO even if she never asks you to. when you dont say something she just thinks "wtf isnt he saying it, he is weak and/or stupid??"
give feedback. all the time. dont fucking overthink everything and spend 10 hours trying to decide whether you like the taste of the ice cream or fancy taking the dog for a walk now or in 30 minutes.
some women are VERY good at doing what they feel like as soon as they think about it and expressing how they feel as soon as they feel it. this makes them natural-born leaders and with that comes an elevated status. if you cant live up to that standard or surpass it then you'll appear unattractive and get poor responses from them. theyll think you are indecisive, poor at communicating, or theyll just think you have an empty head with no opinion or no balls.
i knew all this but i guess i forgot how important or challenging it is with some people. many of my other friends are indecisive and dont really give a fuck about anything, so i get out of practice.
this is why having shit like a car, or inviting a girl to YOUR place rather than going to hers (where you dont know jack shit or even the language) is an immediate bonus. of course, these are superficial things and its great that im able to learn the "hard way" haha.
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also i need to re-listen to my david d'angelo tapes lol
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the thing that really gets to me (when im down) is that you need to do these "manly attractive" qualities in order to be friends with some girls - if she isnt attracted to you (and she doesnt find you rediculously interesting/funny - and that cant happen 24/7 unless you're some sort of genius) then she will get stroppy and annoyed about it.
you guys relate to this bit at all?
idk maybe it really is a big problem with me (not giving enough feedback so its like talking to a brick wall). i just need to be more alert and forming opinions properly and voicing them properly
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Let me give you straight-up advice - cut off all God damn contact with her for the next two months. GET YOUR FUCKING GAME ON TRACK. Your post shows you still suck at it and you'll do more damage than good if you continue spending time with her.
Don't be afraid that if you cut off contact she'll go jump on another guy's dick. Even if she does, chicks don't value 'commitment' and loyalty like guys do... When a guy says something like: "I'll marry you forever" he fucking means it. When a girl says it, she means: "I'll marry you forever... Until someone else comes along or if you start acting like a beta pussy. Then I'll divorce your ass."
You need to get the fuck out. You've got no game. The fact you need to overthink things to this extent is evidence of this. You're fucking it up and you'll regret it if you don't cut things off now.
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By the way, don't even try to explain it to her. Just stop calling, texting, etc. Just disappear. If you're alpha enough in two months to six months' time, then it won't matter. Chicks are simplistic. She won't be like: "Where were you for the last x months." She'll just be overjoyed with your manly presence in her life her hormones will take over and you can start the thrusting.
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dude read the fucking thread please. for a start im in another country on a holiday staying with her. yeah i know my "game" sucks, theres no better practice than being around a girl like this. idk if shes completely lost hope in me but i wanna take every opportunity to try to do otherwise
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On August 02 2011 06:51 FFGenerations wrote:
u know what today she explained how she was getting annoyed and tired of my company because i havent been taking the iniative and lead in the day to day things. this is a very very typical thing that turns women off like nothing else (not all women though - but this girl especially it seems).
i already knew this to an extent but honestly didnt realise to what extent. she absolutely needs direction (i said "lets go shopping" when i meant "i just wanna browse around randomly and hang out" but she got extremely pissy because she felt like i was just faffing around being indecisive and lame. she hated it when i looked at some clothes but didnt comment enough to her satisfaction (she wants a YES or NO or some strong feedback whereas my general response is to think things over too much).
another example of how this affects us is when i might suggest a movie and then spend 5 minutes saying shit like "mm you might like it because of blah but it does have blah in and the overall tone of the movie is blah and maybe we should watch this other thing instead blah blah". when i really i should just be like "WE WATCHING THIS NOW STFU AND ENJOY"
so these kinda things REALLY and i mean really tick her off and she gets moody and her whole attitude towards me in general becomes very negative, which in turn makes me feel fucked up and because im the classic "conflict-avoider" i just back down and make the situation even worse.
so the major lessons for today kids are that being decisive and leading is way more important than you think - you should ALWAYS be one step ahead of another person and you should ALWAYS be very direct and PRECISE (no faffing around) in anything you do, from buying shit at the shop to knowing when you're going to eat or pick the place to eat.
you should INSTANTLY speak your mind or do whatever comes into you head as soon as you think it. you might think you're very clever and interesting in your head, but no one else fucking knows that unless you shout it out and do it. if she says something that makes you feel like shes pissy, dont hang around wondering and analysing and hoping itll go away. fucking say something - SHE WANTS YOU TO even if she never asks you to. when you dont say something she just thinks "wtf isnt he saying it, he is weak and/or stupid??"
give feedback. all the time. dont fucking overthink everything and spend 10 hours trying to decide whether you like the taste of the ice cream or fancy taking the dog for a walk now or in 30 minutes.
some women are VERY good at doing what they feel like as soon as they think about it and expressing how they feel as soon as they feel it. this makes them natural-born leaders and with that comes an elevated status. if you cant live up to that standard or surpass it then you'll appear unattractive and get poor responses from them. theyll think you are indecisive, poor at communicating, or theyll just think you have an empty head with no opinion or no balls.
i knew all this but i guess i forgot how important or challenging it is with some people. many of my other friends are indecisive and dont really give a fuck about anything, so i get out of practice.
this is why having shit like a car, or inviting a girl to YOUR place rather than going to hers (where you dont know jack shit or even the language) is an immediate bonus. of course, these are superficial things and its great that im able to learn the "hard way" haha.
Err, you're getting a little fanatical here. A great deal of the time with women, you're better off saying nothing at all. Except of course when you're telling her what to do. But yeah, less is more when it comes to women. You seem to have a more unique problem of being horribly indecisive. In which case, yes, this would probably help you a lot. But if I said everything as soon as it came to mind to my girl it would probably be an epic disaster.
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dude im in another country shes in the next room my phone doesnt even work how can i text her jeez
you are right tho, when i go back home i seriously have to practice this shit
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haha StorkHwaiting, i think that being so inward-thinking and indecisive means i do have that split second to decide whether or not im going to say/do something - as long as i DO IT WHEN I WANT TO
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i think with me i have this rediculous confusing feeling of "wanting to do something but still not doing it".
but its also about communicating when im not sure about something. i have a tendency, when im not sure about something, to overthink and overthink and think reeeal seriously about it, and then say pretty much nothing coz i couldnt come to a solid conclusion.
i treat everything like a fucking life-decision. "are you hot?" "mm...quite hot...been hotter...sweating a bit...but my hands are in the shade...over-all, im not quite sure. what do you think?"
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Ah okay. Maybe work on an internal philosophy/prioritization so that when things come up you don't have to even think or hesitate. You just decisively act. I think that's what women want more than just going for it every time.
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EPT
