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If I could pick a single game I can take on lone island just for me, it would be Diablo 2. (If I could pick more games, I would also include Fallout 1 and 2 and Planescape: Torment.)
If I could pick a single game I can take on a lone island where also a friend will live the rest of his life, it would be Starcraft: Broodwar.
The BW forum has a thread called "Guide for players switching from SC2". This incited me to write a blog I wanted to write since the release of the new game.
While of course Broodwar will be played as long as an online service is active, the BW pro scene will probably phase out when the second SC2 expansion was released. This is a bold statement and I don't even mind to back it up with detailed arguments because I think it is obvious, that the BW pro scene is currently in its final state. Whoever goes into the RTS pro scene now, will most likely pick SC2 and not BW. Without fresh blood, BW is doomed.
SC2 managed to kill two games. Even two Blizzard games, BW and WC3. SC2 managed to be successful outside of Korea.
Now over 10 years of pro gaming led to a lot of knowledge about Broodwar. It still is not sure that SC2 can maintain its current success. Maybe it will not be around for that long. It has not yet stand the test of time. The not-yet-proven and possibly inferior game kills the king? How can this be?
Yet, it does. I can understand the fear of BW players, that all their knowledge will be lost if BW is abandoned.
Because it is not just some knowledge, it is art. It is power. It is beauty. It is fundamental, as Broodwar is the best game humanity produced so far. It is larger than us. In short, Broodwar is important.
Map: Destination. The Protoss has just one cannon up and the zerg has six lings outside the Protoss' nat. Will he try a run by?
Map: Shattered Temple. The Protoss has 2 zealots. Wait, he already has 3 zealots. But who really cares? I personally don't even care about the 3D graphics. I never understood why RTS try to be 3D games. I approved Dune 2000 still using 2D graphics. (I also played Dune 2. Oh boy, I still remember the last mission of house Atreides ... group selection limit 12? No, one fucking single unit could be moved at a time.)
But we cannot pause the time. To cite my second-favoured book: To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die.
The Broodwar pro scene will die. We cannot avert it. The knowledge how to play the game will be lost. We cannot prevent it. While Broodwar dies, we live to tell the tale. Our mission is to keep the memory of Broodwar.
  
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I didn't really understand your point too well, but I found this very sad and slightly poetic... was that your goal?
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Uhh you might want to rethink what you said... It is SC2 that is struggling with popularity in korea, not BW. BW has a budding video streamer, small tourney and viewer community, still one of popular games in pc bangs, high production value tournaments and the best casters. sc2 scene has none of those things, and with the blizzard financed business model is what could be called a "forced meme" in the imageboard community, and not sustainable as a non-subsidiary. Hence blizzard cutting their losses and embracing bw recently with the law suit. In short, HOTS is the chance for sc2 to actually establish itself in the korean community, not a killing blow to bw.
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lol this blog is so one-sided and loaded. just another opinion of an old-school gamer who can't adjust to changing times.
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Hi~ BW loyalist here. What is the point of all these numerous letters? 
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Map: Destination. The Protoss has just one cannon up and the zerg has six lings outside the Protoss' nat. Will he try a run by?
Map: Shattered Temple. The Protoss has 2 zealots. Wait, he already has 3 zealots. But who really cares? I personally don't even care about the 3D graphics. I never understood why RTS try to be 3D games. I approved Dune 2000 still using 2D graphics. (I also played Dune 2. Oh boy, I still remember the last mission of house Atreides ... group selection limit 12? No, one fucking single unit could be moved at a time.)
This just shows how loaded your questions are. Who cares if he tries a run-by in either case? This is a set up simply because you have already assumed that we care what happens after the run-by. You just start talking about 3d graphics and yada yada yada. You don't even say why BW is the best game ever made by humanity. Frankly it seems like you merely don't want to get interested in something new, rather than wanting to stay with something that is good.
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The BW scene is expanding at the moment, not dying...
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Canada2480 Posts
On July 13 2011 04:40 xarthaz wrote:
Uhh you might want to rethink what you said... It is SC2 that is struggling with popularity in korea, not BW. BW has a budding video streamer, small tourney and viewer community, still one of popular games in pc bangs, high production value tournaments and the best casters. sc2 scene has none of those things, and with the blizzard financed business model is what could be called a "forced meme" in the imageboard community, and not sustainable as a non-subsidiary. Hence blizzard cutting their losses and embracing bw recently with the law suit. In short, HOTS is the chance for sc2 to actually establish itself in the korean community, not a killing blow to bw.
Yeah exactly, I don't think SC2 is still a danger to BW like it was a year ago
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On July 13 2011 04:34 masami.sc wrote:
I didn't really understand your point too well, but I found this very sad and slightly poetic... was that your goal? I think we need to let go of things which will end while we should keep what can be kept.
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On July 13 2011 04:42 TylerThaCreator wrote:
lol this blog is so one-sided and loaded. just another opinion of an old-school gamer who can't adjust to changing times. While I am so oldschool that I played the original Starcraft before Broodwar was even out (though I played campaign only) I actually embrace the changes, in the hope that we will get to the point where BW was – and farther.
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On July 13 2011 04:49 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +Map: Destination. The Protoss has just one cannon up and the zerg has six lings outside the Protoss' nat. Will he try a run by?
Map: Shattered Temple. The Protoss has 2 zealots. Wait, he already has 3 zealots. But who really cares? I personally don't even care about the 3D graphics. I never understood why RTS try to be 3D games. I approved Dune 2000 still using 2D graphics. (I also played Dune 2. Oh boy, I still remember the last mission of house Atreides ... group selection limit 12? No, one fucking single unit could be moved at a time.) This just shows how loaded your questions are. Who cares if he tries a run-by in either case? This is a set up simply because you have already assumed that we care what happens after the run-by. You just start talking about 3d graphics and yada yada yada. You don't even say why BW is the best game ever made by humanity. Frankly it seems like you merely don't want to get interested in something new, rather than wanting to stay with something that is good. As this is a blog, I state my opinion without proving it with science. I began to follow the BW scene very late, it was 2008. I came to Cologne to see the WC3 grand finals of the WCG. But what I saw in BW – I went to the BW games just to get a good seat for the following WC3 games – was insane. I began to watch ESL TV and saw any archived VOD that contains BW. Then I began to look at Youtube and watched even Korean VODs. I also watched the entire GOM TV Starcraft Invitational through VODs, casted by Tasteless (then with black hair.)
A Zealot in a Korean pro game means a lot. SC2 appears still random in large parts. If I see Jaedong versus Flash, I see no randomness. I don't even see Starcraft, I see just the play.
SC2 needs more time. In this time, BW will be all history. It's neither good nor bad, it's change.
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group selection limit 12? No, one fucking single unit could be moved at a time.)
Actually you could make all your units follow one unit and then A-move that one unit and you basically had infinite unit selection 
I played it on some sega console recently at a friends house.
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On July 13 2011 04:50 jello_biafra wrote:
The BW scene is expanding at the moment, not dying...
You are kidding yourself if you actually believe that.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On July 13 2011 05:16 cava wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 04:50 jello_biafra wrote:
The BW scene is expanding at the moment, not dying... You are kidding yourself if you actually believe that.
Depends on how it is recieved in China, if it fails then it might be dying, if it works then yes BW is expanding.
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On July 13 2011 05:16 cava wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 04:50 jello_biafra wrote:
The BW scene is expanding at the moment, not dying... You are kidding yourself if you actually believe that.
OSL, MSL and Proleague are back in action, a couple new rookie leagues are being set up, nation wars is making a comeback and there's been an increase in tournaments with things like ISL.
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On July 13 2011 05:07 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 04:49 Roe wrote:Map: Destination. The Protoss has just one cannon up and the zerg has six lings outside the Protoss' nat. Will he try a run by?
Map: Shattered Temple. The Protoss has 2 zealots. Wait, he already has 3 zealots. But who really cares? I personally don't even care about the 3D graphics. I never understood why RTS try to be 3D games. I approved Dune 2000 still using 2D graphics. (I also played Dune 2. Oh boy, I still remember the last mission of house Atreides ... group selection limit 12? No, one fucking single unit could be moved at a time.) This just shows how loaded your questions are. Who cares if he tries a run-by in either case? This is a set up simply because you have already assumed that we care what happens after the run-by. You just start talking about 3d graphics and yada yada yada. You don't even say why BW is the best game ever made by humanity. Frankly it seems like you merely don't want to get interested in something new, rather than wanting to stay with something that is good. As this is a blog, I state my opinion without proving it with science. I began to follow the BW scene very late, it was 2008. I came to Cologne to see the WC3 grand finals of the WCG. But what I saw in BW – I went to the BW games just to get a good seat for the following WC3 games – was insane. I began to watch ESL TV and saw any archived VOD that contains BW. Then I began to look at Youtube and watched even Korean VODs. I also watched the entire GOM TV Starcraft Invitational through VODs, casted by Tasteless (then with black hair.) A Zealot in a Korean pro game means a lot. SC2 appears still random in large parts. If I see Jaedong versus Flash, I see no randomness. I don't even see Starcraft, I see just the play. SC2 needs more time. In this time, BW will be all history. It's neither good nor bad, it's change.
I agree, players need to get better so there aren't boring 1a blob vs blob battles, and it needs whatever BW had that made you feel that way. That's all that's different. As an aside, weren't there more random game elements in BW? Vulture mines, reaver scarabs, spawn positions, attacking uphill(not sure if that's a flat or random modifier), dragoon AI. I can't see how SC2 is random at all except for spawn positions.
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I liked this blog, even though I don't agree that BW is dying.
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If you realize that the game so superior why aren't you playing it?
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On July 13 2011 05:29 Roe wrote:
I agree, players need to get better so there aren't boring 1a blob vs blob battles, and it needs whatever BW had that made you feel that way. That's all that's different. As an aside, weren't there more random game elements in BW? Vulture mines, reaver scarabs, spawn positions, attacking uphill(not sure if that's a flat or random modifier), dragoon AI. I can't see how SC2 is random at all except for spawn positions.
Many people whined about the mechanics in SC2 being simplified to the point where anyone could 1a to victory - there you have the consequences of it. Wait for someone who actually will do everything to prove everyone he is the best and you will get the most omg moments you could ever imagine. If you feel the game is easy and simple, then take a look at the amount of people who think otherwise, be the first to break out from that mental prison. If you feel that even at the furthest point of the food chain it is still easy and simple, then there's no other mean of salvation for you than pure patience, because it will only take time. I'd love to see BW being popularized and played internationally again, in one form or another, but since it's not gonna happen and we are, in fact, relying on Blizzard's will, we should actually support them as much as we can while keeping a critical eye on them and let them know that we do know how we want the game to be played.
I can see how important it is to players to somehow salvage their knowledge about BW and not just abandon it. Myself, I'd probably stick to BW for some really long time before actually taking a longer break or switching. SC2 and BW differ enough for it to not be all that useful. Of course, the common strategy skills are there, mechanics are close to perfected and such, but it's just those countless hours of watching the same replay over and over to come to the conclusion that patrol here would be better than patrol there and would win the game which no one wants to be proven worthless after all.
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The OP is correct in saying that BW pro scene will phase out.
NOT SOON ENOUGH.
Blizz and Kespa have a 2-3 yr deal, and BW is utterly WAY more popular than SC2 is in Korea.
There are more than usual FOREIGN tournaments getting posted on TL and iccup nowadays. I certainly don't see this as dying.
Yes it is an old game and it will die sooner or later, but you see that BW is more fun than ever, with Bisu/JD/Flash triangle leading the way, showcasing ever more amazing skill and talent that SC2 can never harness.
I believe SC2 was more of a threat to BW in beginning stages. BW scene has actually calmed down more now and is more stable with strong fanbase and support. so OP, your opinion is too early of a calling.
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WEll i agree to part of what you said but there where some parts that were, uh...well, some people will be seriously offended by it.
First of all, BW was a great game, no doubt about it. I do agree that it is an art. It is a game that should be remembered by everyone as a major part of esports and gaming history. But simply saying SC2 is "inferior" and that it killed two games and that most importantly BW knowledge will be forever lost is kind of pessimistic. (Did i spell that word wrong?)
BW and WC3 knowledge aren't completely lost, the skills such as decision making and high APM are kept and passed onto SC2. Recall the beginning days of BW when people had almost no experience about RTS and never use hotkeys to play and only use one hand, now look at the beginning days of SC2, people looked really damn good because they had previous knowledge of RTS from BW and WC3. And look at day[9] daily, i'm pretty sure most of his replay analyzing skills come from his experiences of BW.
Also i think the simpler mechanics can help the game in the future when there would be more epic micro wars and multi-front attacks because now there's extra APM to do that, instead of spending this APM to move works to minerals.
And for the 3D thing, well, Blizzard is a business and it needs people to buy the game. And when the general public go buy a game, they don't look at it and go "Hmmm, this game looks very complex and indepth with an extremely high skill cap, i should buy it." NO, they whould just buy the game that looks good. Imagin if SC1 was to be delayed for 13 years and was to be released now, no one would buy it, and would then go and see if the next MW rip-off is on sale yet.
in the end, it is sad that BW have to and will evantually disappear in the esports world, but the skill of BW has been passed on to SC2, and the memory of BW will never disappear and will always remain as part of our esports and gaming history.Also SC2 is not bad, it just needs more innovation and less balancing talks.
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On July 13 2011 05:16 cava wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 04:50 jello_biafra wrote:
The BW scene is expanding at the moment, not dying... You are kidding yourself if you actually believe that.
Let me guess. You don't even follow the BW scene.
rofl.
edit: Wow you registered in 2002. Shame on you.
On July 13 2011 04:42 TylerThaCreator wrote:
lol this blog is so one-sided and loaded. just another opinion of an old-school gamer who can't adjust to changing times.
imo just because someone decides not to move on it does not mean he can't adjust to changing times...
Just because the majority does it so should I? I personally hate SC2 (the game to me just doesn't appeal) so why should I change? I am content with BW and that is all that matters.
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EPT
